My wife wants to swing without me...with our roommate

[magnum 78]

Nothing much has changed since my last post. I asked my wife to end it. According to him and her, that has been the case. I still get suspicious once in a while, but for the most part, things are back how they were before this all started. I still have lingering trust and fears about it, but I trust *her* enough that I haven't lost it.

 

He and I haven't talked much, and he completely avoids the topic. At the same time, he's been more conversant with my wife than in the past. I'm not sure what to make of this, but again, I'm trusting her.

 

In hindsight, I should have reacted more aggressively(?) to his advances instead of running with the fantasy (him cheating "in spirit" with his girlfriend, making advances on my wife without talking to me, being completely closed to a threesome). I should have spotted the completely selfish behavior and reacted. However, it's hard bring it up after the fact. I guess I'm a little slow. I have no plans of kicking him out, although I think I could possibly be happier in that case. I guess I haven't decided if the confrontation is worth it.

 

After putting an end to it, we did attend our first club a couple weeks later(we just played with each other). We plan to go again this weekend.

 

Good luck to you. I hope you can get this worked out and to be able to relax about the whole thing.

 

Let us know how your next club visit/party goes.

[Lascivious L&L 866]

Atlas, you've mentioned a number of times that you trust your wife. It appears to me that what you really mean is that you are putting the entire burden of spurning his advances on her. It seems you refuse to be a partner in the odious task of dealing with him. For me that is the worst part of your not wanting to confront this man who is no friend of yours.

 

Making it all her job is walking away from your partner when she needs you most. If you want it to stop you must say it to his face in no uncertain terms AND she has to deal with his advances toward her. That's how a partnership works, both of you making clear to him that he must stop.

 

Allowing him to stay in your house is just another form of avoidance of what needs to be done to make it clear in his head that he must stop. Until you kick him out, your actions speak loudly that his transgressions aren't that important to you.

[atlas 15]

Ahh.. so much to respond to, but I'll try and be brief.

 

I smell some take-charge alpha males out there that love flexing their muscles. Ain't me boys. Yes, I'm passive. I'm sure not impulsive. When I am impulsive, I've usually changed my mind or regretted it. I also make mistakes and change my mind. You boys that are so cocksure of yourself go ahead, grab you nut, and go making the world right. Peace.

 

The situation was a mistake. I posted for advice on the correct way to rectify the mistake with the least damage. I also needed to know if I was reacting unfairly. I'm fairly satisfied with the result. Might we be happier if he moved out? Maybe. I'm not sure we'd feel good about kicking him out on something we appeared to condone. I do have some anger and, in hindsight, his behavior was a bit shady too. I am willing to let mistakes be mistakes without unleashing more. I trust my wife to let me know if she's feeling pressured, and she's been keeping me abreast of things.

 

Regarding wrecking his life and creating drama? Come on now. There was a situation that evolved, and I changed my mind. Anyone has the right to change their mind at any time. He was heavily flirting with my wife as he was strangling his relationship. He was also propositioning his ex-girlfriend's friend but didn't make any "official" moves till they were through (that way he wasn't "cheating", *sigh*). That later flamed out when everyone else found out. If I had any part in destroying HIS life, it was only in providing temptation. No, that's life.

 

Communication... Relatively speaking, my wife and I have good communication. There's never a topic off-limits and anything can be shared. Has she dropped details in the past. Yes. She's was trying to be considerate of my feelings. I've confronted her on it and let her know that's not acceptable. I'm not going to beat her up over it. I've asked her to work on it, and we'll go from there. She was upfront about the situation and asked my permission. That is enough for me to believe there isn't a horde of lies behind her words.

 

Since the mistake, we've been to a club twice. The first time we only played with each other. That was great. The second time, we found a couple and participated in a full swap. It was OK but maybe a tad too fast. We learned a bit and we'll probably slow down for the summer.

 

Thanks to everyone for the constructive advice.

[PB&J 1,086]

I smell some take-charge alpha males out there that love flexing their muscles. Ain't me boys. Yes, I'm passive. I'm sure not impulsive. When I am impulsive, I've usually changed my mind or regretted it. I also make mistakes and change my mind. You boys that are so cocksure of yourself go ahead, grab you nut, and go making the world right. Peace.

 

Ummm... personally, I'm not an alpha male- I'm a woman. And in this situation, I would want my husband to take charge and solve this problem, instead of expecting me to do all the heavy lifting.

 

Just so you know. However, as long as you're happy with what's happening, I suppose there's no point in us giving you advice- even though that is what you asked us for.

[atlas 15]

Atlas, you've mentioned a number of times that you trust your wife. It appears to me that what you really mean is that you are putting the entire burden of spurning his advances on her. It seems you refuse to be a partner in the odious task of dealing with him. For me that is the worst part of your not wanting to confront this man who is no friend of yours.

 

Making it all her job is walking away from your partner when she needs you most. If you want it to stop you must say it to his face in no uncertain terms AND she has to deal with his advances toward her. That's how a partnership works, both of you making clear to him that he must stop.

 

Allowing him to stay in your house is just another form of avoidance of what needs to be done to make it clear in his head that he must stop. Until you kick him out, your actions speak loudly that his transgressions aren't that important to you.

 

Look... he is both of our friend. We share some responsibility for the situation for being so open in our discussions. We both decided to go along with the experiment till I it clearly became a bad idea. She has spoken to him and, albeit briefly, we have spoken. Everyone knows it's done. If anything other than a joke here or flirt there was going on, I would be putting on the boots. However, everyone is currently respecting each others space. There's no reason to go apeshit over my change of heart.

 

I know the idea of adults co-habitation isn't too popular in the US, but what makes it work is not having a "my way or the highway" attitude. Not blowing up when something doesn't work out.

[atlas 15]

Ummm... personally, I'm not an alpha male- I'm a woman. And in this situation, I would want my husband to take charge and solve this problem, instead of expecting me to do all the heavy lifting.

 

Just so you know. However, as long as you're happy with what's happening, I suppose there's no point in us giving you advice- even though that is what you asked us for.

 

We're more of a partnership, I guess. If she wanted me to boot him, it'd happen. No such request has been made. She feels as I. We can live and learn without punishing.

 

I did ask for advice. However, some of it came off a little rough. A preface doesn't make it any nicer. It's the old joke of, "I don't mean to be a dick, but you're an asshole!" The preface doesn't excuse it (Not calling you names, just pointing out common conversational fallacy).

[mixtupcpl 169]

Look... he is both of our friend. We share some responsibility for the situation for being so open in our discussions. We both decided to go along with the experiment till I it clearly became a bad idea. She has spoken to him and, albeit briefly, we have spoken. Everyone knows it's done. If anything other than a joke here or flirt there was going on, I would be putting on the boots. However, everyone is currently respecting each others space. There's no reason to go apeshit over my change of heart.

 

I know the idea of adults co-habitation isn't too popular in the US, but what makes it work is not having a "my way or the highway" attitude. Not blowing up when something doesn't work out.

 

*points at the poly section*... this may be true in general, but it certainly isnt true here. there are some folks here living in some incredibly complex situations.

 

I think when you first posted it sounded like you were looking for validation that this was a toxic situation and that you weren't at fault for it. It also seemed like you were desperate to get out of it. So I think you did get the affirmation you seemed to be seeking from everyone here.

 

Another common conversational fallacy is that expecting people to read minds never works. Lots of people come and open up very strong when asking for advice, and then, in turn, get strong reactions. What requently happens next is they take exception to the strong reactions and end up almost defending the original situation they complained about.

 

Its good that its working for you guys... I'm just pointing out that this does tend to happen a lot on threads like this. Possibly it's a form of therapy for some people to hash out a tough issue like this in a discussion group, if so, then hopefully this was at least useful for you.

[Adam-n-Eve 223]

We're more of a partnership, I guess. If she wanted me to boot him, it'd happen. No such request has been made. She feels as I. We can live and learn without punishing.

 

I did ask for advice. However, some of it came off a little rough. A preface doesn't make it any nicer. It's the old joke of, "I don't mean to be a dick, but you're an asshole!" The preface doesn't excuse it (Not calling you names, just pointing out common conversational fallacy).

 

I'm sorry if you feel I was being a dick. That wasn't my intent. However, you need to keep in mind that you don't swing in a vacuum. Your problems often become our problems. I think that you'll find that experienced swingers look for "red flags" that could mean a couple is trouble and they tend to shy away from anyone that they fear could be drama waiting to happen.

 

I don't think anyone has an issue with you changing your mind. That is 100% your right and your wife needs to understand and respect your desires. The issue is that you seem to be hiding from your problems. You're going through issues of anger and jealousy and you're solution is to not talk about it. This is very different from whether or not any subject is "off limits" between you two -- it seems that there's one big subject you won't discuss, and that's what's bothering you emotionally. That is where you are going to get in trouble. That is why I'm telling you you're not ready to be a swinger.

 

You say you're a partnership (implying that others here don't have a partnership, I guess?) but the way I see it (and as it appears others see it) you're not living up to your part of the partnership when you leave this on your wife's shoulders.

 

The people here have a lot of experience and a lot of knowledge. They tend to be able to recognize a big problem when they see it. Everyone is different, and some people can make the seemingly impossible work out, but it's rare. I doubt you're the exception.

 

Perhaps you're not expressing yourself as well as you could be, but from what you appear to be telling us, you're going to crash and burn. Your wife's reaction to you telling her what you're comfortable with was to tell you that she thinks you're being controlling -- she shut down you and your feelings, and you accepted it. In the world of red flags, there aren't many bigger. That tells me that your wife isn't as concerned with your feeling as she needs to be, and that you are going suppress those feelings and do things you don't want to do -- meanwhile, whether you realize it or not, resentment is going to grow until you can't hold it in any longer. At that point, regardless of what you think about the strength of your relationship, your marriage is in jeopardy. You may not survive it. The trust will be gone, you won't be sure what her motives are, and jealousy is going to rule your emotions.

 

But we're just alpha-male dicks. We're just being mean to be mean. There's nothing constructive here so ignore us. It's not like we've seen this play out over and over. Nope, we're just dicks with disclaimers.

 

Good luck. You are so going to need it.

[magnum 78]

Atlas, you've mentioned a number of times that you trust your wife. It appears to me that what you really mean is that you are putting the entire burden of spurning his advances on her. It seems you refuse to be a partner in the odious task of dealing with him. For me that is the worst part of your not wanting to confront this man who is no friend of yours.

 

Making it all her job is walking away from your partner when she needs you most. If you want it to stop you must say it to his face in no uncertain terms AND she has to deal with his advances toward her. That's how a partnership works, both of you making clear to him that he must stop.

 

Allowing him to stay in your house is just another form of avoidance of what needs to be done to make it clear in his head that he must stop. Until you kick him out, your actions speak loudly that his transgressions aren't that important to you.

 

Well said...you can do it Atlas...I agree here, you need to put your foot down and tell him to stop and get out.

 

Good luck.

[Lascivious L&L 866]

Atlas, I understand the bruising nature of the advice you've received here. It's a strong subject and you have received strong reactions. The reason may be that others have dealt with similar situations. I know I have. And I have cohabited with friends in more than one unusual household. I speak from experience with situations similar to yours. I think others do also.

 

The point of this board, and why perhaps you asked for advice, is that this is a place where you will find others with similar experiences. Advice can be very difficult to take, especially when your nature is not to confront. For those on this board, too non-confrontational.

 

In matters of the heart, sex, and living together it is rare to be too clear. The point here is not who is to blame for the situation, that is long past. It is how to be very clear, clear enough that your live in friend gets the point.

 

You've been open to us on this board, people you don't know and don't live with. Why can't you be as clear with the person it is most important to be clear with?

[PB&J 1,086]

We're more of a partnership, I guess.

 

Hello? Not sure what sort of marriage you think we have. We are a partnership too. Complete equals and best friends. We make decisions together. BUT I can count on my husband to step up and do what's necessary.

[atlas 15]

I was looking for validation of my reaction and a sounding board. I wasn't sure if I was reacting unfairly to the situation or not. I do understand I'm not going to only hear the advice I want to hear. Some advice was closer to personal attacks on myself and my wife, though.

 

Maybe it's simply an interpretation problem on both sides. Communication is difficult in that no one is a mind reader, and I'm probably not the best writer. I knew it would be difficult to communicate the problem without diving into pages of the various nuances of each actor (plus while trying to be accurate and impartial). I'm sorry for that, but it's the nature of all communication.

 

My wife and I have had long talks about the situation and still rehash it a bit, though less and less. She has talked to him. *I* have talked to him. It wasn't the type of conversation I hoped for due to him wanting to get out of the conversation ASAP. Either way, it's been communicated all around. Any further transgressions and I will deal with it as needed. My wife and I both agree that there is no need to kick him out at this point. I understand most feel there shouldn't be a second chance, but we disagree. Maybe a different interpretation of what PB&J said, if my wife feels there's something to be handled, I will. Neither of us feel it's needed at this point.

 

Regarding my state, I think I've mostly been over it since we put a stop to it. There is some residual anger, but it's been fading and will continue to fade. There are always bumps and bruises when you make a wrong turn and they don't heal overnight. The source of pain is gone(for her and I), and we're moving on.

[DiscreetDesires 32]

I am glad that you have found resolution to this situation for yourself and your wife.

Regardless of what anyone else says, it is you and your wife that has to live your life, and whatever solution works best for you both.. that is the way to go.

 

I do believe that everyone here has you and your wife's best interest at heart and are sharing advice based on past experiences that may aid in helping you.

Sometimes the best thing to do isn't always the easiest, especially in the short term, but will be best in the long term of your relationship.

 

If things do progress to the worst possible scenario, you've got a great amount of advice to lean back on and will know what to do if the situation escalates.

 

I wish the best of luck to you both!!!

[Adam-n-Eve 223]

Some advice was closer to personal attacks on myself and my wife, though.

 

it's a shame that you take "you're not ready to be a swinger" as a personal attack. I think you're headed for trouble and being blunt and up front about that is not a personal attack. Explaining that your problems can cause problems for others isn't a person attack either -- it's asking you to think about how you will affect others you want to play with. Telling you that other coues my run from you was designed to warn you that you may find yourself with a reputation as a couple to steer clear of -- the community is a smaller place than you may think.

 

Good luck

[snapps 78]

She's already fucking your roommate... I hope to God you didnt agree to this man... *Sigh... Some females are so dang sneaky sometimes...

 

And by the way this is not swinging, this is called cheating and playing you for a fool....

 

Good luck

[Alex855 16]

wow what read! I am seriously dumb founded by Atlas lack of confrontation skills. Now I'm not an alpha male in any way shape nor form. I'm actually very easy going, dont assert myself, let others go first... But I learned a long time ago that if something really matters to me I better forcefully put my foot down otherwise people will walk all over me.

 

What gets me the most is that both of them were happy to hear that friend may move... and yet neither of them where willing to tell him that its time for him to move out. This is beyond my comprehension as my relationship comes first and foremost.

[Dunk 1]

It seems like your wife has a pretty good idea if she hasn't already who she wants to fuck.  that is the roommate.  Get rid of the Room mate and have the Talk of your life With her if you want to save this relationship.  I just got this feeling it's about the go Bad for you.

[lcmim 1,086]

It has been 10 years since this was last posted to by the OP.

I for one hope that he sees this and gives us an update.

 

How this all turned out could be interesting.

 

FWIW I fall into the camp that sees a huge RED FLAG in his wife's response to his wanting to shut things down.

 

 

 

[JessicaJamison 864]

If it was me that dude sounds shady and would be looking for a new home.  An open relationship starts with open and honest communication.  Dude hitting on your wife and showing her his dick when you are not around is shady and duplicitous, which is the opposite of open and honest.  Under this setup this does not end well for you and your wife.  Shady behavior creates jealousy because it will feel like they are hiding something from you.  We have a couple staying in our spare room right now and I sleep with both of them all the time but my husband knows my schedule and he sleeps with her frequently also, and I know his schedule.  Without the communication this isn't swinging its cheating.  And cheaters never prosper.