Would you play with swingers who "had" HPV (or possibly still do)?

[JoeSnoopy 15]

First-time poster here. I've been on the board for a while, but I setup a new account just for this post. I'm posting this message with a two-fold purpose: One, to bring reality to the issues and ramifications associated to the lifestyle and Two, to get some other perspectives and advice.

 

My wife and I started swinging a little over a year ago. We've had full swap experiences with about 7 or 8 couples since then. We always used condoms for penetration.

 

About 4 months ago, my wife had an abnormal pap which led to inconclusive biopsies, then a LEEP procedure. Supposedly, she's OK for now, but we won't know for sure until her 6 month follow-up. About a month ago, I was diagnosed with genital warts. I just had about 20 of them burned off (not fun at all!). The doctors are fairly convinced all of this is HPV related. They are assuming the abnormalities from her pap were more wart-like, and not cancerous as the strands of HPV are not the same for the two. There is no HPV test for men, and all the tests on her were negative. Which isn't really an indicator as the doctors say it is very difficult to truly diagnose.

 

So, we obviously haven't had sex with anyone (or each other for that matter) in the last few months. We've clearly agreed that the benefits of the lifestyle are absolutely not worth the costs and associated risks. (As we've learned the hard way).

 

We very much like the 'sexy' openness of the clubs and have talked about continuing to go, but just not playing with others. Or maybe once things straighten up maybe some mild soft-swap only play. We definitely don't want to spread anything, but we also don't want to catch anything else.

 

I'm really looking to get some feedback from others about: Is it wrong/uncool to go to swing clubs knowing we are not going to ever play with others? We don't want to openly publicize we have/had HPV & warts. If we do go to clubs, we'd meet new people - but don't want offend anyone if we won't play. We're thinking we'd eventually be ostracized for either being 'too-picky or too-good-for snobs' or for being contaminated!

 

Would anyone soft-swap with others who had HPV in the past/or quite possibly still do but with no symptoms?

 

We're both pretty alone and confused right now and would like to get some other perspectives. Please feel free to openly reply to this post, or if you'd prefer PM's would be great too. (Rest assured, anything PM'd will absolutely remain private!).

 

HPV is rampant throughout society, and as to be expected in the lifestyle. I'd offer that it is not a matter of IF you get it, it's simply a matter of WHEN... You also cannot judge a book by it's cover!!! We were very picky and selective as to who we played.

 

Thanks in advance.

[O.C. 15]

Here's a article in Thursday's news:

 

The concern is that that people who have nonromantic relationships tend to have several partners at one time -- "concurrency," in sexual behavior lingo -- in contrast to people engaged in romantic relationships, who tend to be monogamous for the duration of the romance.

 

"We're concerned that concurrency is speeding up the transmission of sexually transmitted diseases . . . "

 

The downside of 'friends with benefits' - CNN.com

[ciscosv 26]

That blows. It's like drunk driving.. You may think you're good to go then BAM! You are spending the night in the night in the clink! It is always better to be safe than sorry. We all have our dirty Secrets. Wish we can all be so called "D&D" free. Not gonna happen. The wife and I have dodged That bullet once.

 

"hi! We have genital herpes. Would you still hop on top of us without a condom?"

 

I didn't think so.

 

But seriously, it comes down to trust. Who do you trust?

[ciscosv 26]

Oops. Forgot to answer.

 

Totally cool to keep going to clubs. Just be open and honest. That is all we would expect.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,023]

JoeSnoopy said:

Is it wrong/uncool to go to swing clubs knowing we are not going to ever play with others? We don't want to openly publicize we have/had HPV & warts. If we do go to clubs, we'd meet new people - but don't want offend anyone if we won't play. We're thinking we'd eventually be ostracized for either being 'too-picky or too-good-for snobs' or for being contaminated!

 

Would anyone soft-swap with others who had HPV in the past/or quite possibly still do but with no symptoms?

 

Having been around this bulletin board for a while, I'm sure you have seen this one. But for those who have not, I recall it as being one of the most complete discussions of HPV that has appeared here.

 

You are quite right in not exposing others to HPV. And I don't think it will seem weird to others that you regularly go to parties at swingers clubs but do not end up in play. There are ways to decline invitations to play without implying "never". And if you loose the attention of some people, there are plenty of others who will remain social.

 

You might find it different but swingers' clubs have had very few attractions for me apart from the parade of prospective sex partners. I'm sure it would wear very quickly if I could see them and talk to them but not feel free to attempt a seduction. On the question of soft swap, I can think of no practical way of approaching people with an invitation while including the information that you have an HPV infection. Giving that information to just the wrong person would be troublesome.

 

I'm eager to read what others have to say. Discussions of things like HPV deserve exposure.

[Guest AwakenedDesires]

Thanks for sharing. I think it is a good reminder not to underestimate the inherent risks of swinging, some of which even a condom cannot protect fully against.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

As far as attending the clubs and not playing, I wouldn't worry about it. We've been doing just that for about a year now. We go regularly and we don't play. There are those who are probably getting annoyed with us but "oh well". We don't lead anyone on intentionally, we never say we are going to play with them. The most we do is flirt and kiss others. Our close friends know why we aren't playing and if there's a couple we'd REALLY like to play with we explain to them why we are not playing in hopes of keeping them in the loop for down the line when we can play again. We continue to go to the club for the social aspect and the fun sexy aspect.

 

As far as playing with someone who has had genital warts, it would depend a lot on the person and how bad I wanted to play with them. I have in the past played with a couple where I knew she had had HPV warts in the past. It had been quite a while since there had been any activity of that sort.

 

I tend to agree with you on your outlook of "it's not if but when" you will come into contact with an STD. As swingers we will come into contact with it, like it or not. The % are just too high. It's a risk we choose to take when we choose to swing (all of us), although many try to ignore it or pretend it's not there by believing they are "playing safe". There is not 100% safe, condoms don't block all skin to skin contact. Short of wearing full body condoms you are at risk, and all too often the people/person you are playing with does not even know they are putting you at risk.

[duo33470 15]

We had actually started the "is HPV inevitble" thread a while back... about the time we decided that our preferred play was with multiple males for my wife, as opposed to couples swinging.

 

We have now had quite a few bareback gangbangs, and my wife is completely addicted to it and would not have it any other way. We are aware of the risks but could not change even if we wanted to.

[JoeSnoopy 15]

Thanks for the perspectives and feedback so far...

 

I find it interesting that there is somewhat of a limiting factor that folks wouldn't or would be reluctant to play with others knowing they have had HPV symptoms. Understanding that HPV manifests differently in different people - some develop obvious warts, some develop non-visible warts, some develop other symptoms, or some develop nothing. Statistically, it is projected that about 25% of the population has HPV. This implies that if people have been with more than 4 other people - they have already been exposed to and/or possibly infected with and are now a carrier of HPV.

 

It kinda sounds like an 'out of sight, out of mind' mentality? Or is it a 'it won't happen to me' thing? Aren't folks worried/concerned with this?

 

(Or I guess it could even be an 'I really don't care thing since it isn't gonna kill me'?)

[JoeSnoopy 15]

duo33470 said:

We had actually started the "is HPV inevitable" thread a while back... about the time we decided that our preferred play was with multiple males for my wife, as opposed to couples swinging.

 

We have now had quite a few bareback gangbangs, and my wife is completely addicted to it and would not have it any other way. We are aware of the risks but could not change even if we wanted to.

 

Was the fear of HPV part of the reason for your shift from couples to only guys?

 

From what I've researched, male->female transmission is much more popular than female->male transmission...

[Hott Times 70]

Sorry to hear about the HPV news. As you said in your post, a lot of people have been exposed to this virus and have acquired this infection and never even know it.

 

This is a sneaky virus and can present in any number of ways and in lot of cases, may not present in any way at all.

 

A few facts to mull over.

 

No one ever truly knows when they were exposed. The virus is largely dormant and has no symptoms when acquired. Especially in females, the virus could be there for years or even decades until the changes in the PAP smear show the first indication. This means that you or both of you may have had the virus even before you began swinging.

 

There are numerous strains of the HPV virus and only a select few cause the cervical cancer. Other strains cause the visible warts. More and more GYN's are testing for these if there is an abnormal pap smear. Luckily most of these are caught early and do not cause significant problems later if treated competently and in a timely manner.

 

Third thing to consider: there is an immunization that anyone can get that can prevent acquiring these specific strains that seem to cause the problems years or decades later. Teenage girls and young women have been able to get this for years. Just this year, it has been recommended that males also get this vaccine. Older women can get this vaccine also safely. However right now most health insurances are not covering it for the males and older women and the vaccine is not inexpensive. However how much does it cost for some piece of mind and potential protection? Just check with your own doctor or the health department for more details.

 

Again sorry that this has happened to you, but it is not the end of the world, or at least the swinging world. Lots of couples go to clubs just to flirt, dance and mingle, voyeur on others, ect. If you feel like it, go to the swing clubs, have a good time just experiencing the atmosphere and get sexually charged up for each other.

[Chicup 41]

I've been hearing a lot of HPV stories lately, it seems to be making the rounds in Chicago.

 

The only good news about HPV is that is IS curable. This is not a virus like herpes that hides in the nerve cells and there is a lot of misinformation about it where people get the two confused. HPV =/ HSV.

 

The problem is that it can take months to be cured, and men infected will be very likely to show little to no warts. It tends to be much more obvious in women.

 

As for the 'old' infection, that only applies to a bad papsmear, and only if you haven't had one in a long time and had a displastic change. Personally I think a lot of doctors say that to avoid the 'so who have you been fucking besides your husband' line doesn't need to come up or 'So do you know where your husband goes at night?' isn't the uncomfortable topic.

 

Basically you can still call yourself disease free if you had HPV in the past, because in fact you are. Just give it enough time to be out of your system, a minimum of six months, and honestly I'd wait a year.

[jandjnyswingers 15]

Chicup said:

The only good news about HPV is that is IS curable.

 

We've heard different things on this (whether it is in fact curable or not) and as far as we are concerned if you were infected at any point we are not interested in playing with you whether soft swap or full swap. Before playing with anyone we ask them when the last time they were tested and if they have anything. If they fail the question by either not having been tested in the last 6 months, hesitating, obviously lying, or indicating they have an STD or HIV we will pass. In addition, we do make sure we look before touching the other person's equipment and we use protection for penetration. Obviously this doesn't protect us completely but these precautions can help steer us clear from potentially dangerous playmates. We don't think in terms of whether contracting something is inevitable, we simply take as many precautions as we possibly can. The sad fact is that we see too much reckless behavior at swingers parties and that is a shame ?

[tribbles 490]

I heard too many swinging females talking about various 'female tests or procedures' and realized all of them had to do with HPV. Most didn't seem to realize it. Most knew that right after the test the doctor said "no sex for x time" and that was it.

 

They were back swinging as soon as possible.

 

I figure odds of HPV exposure to be super high if someone is an active swinger. If you are a seldom swinger and very picky, you might luck out.

 

Listen close at parties and you may find many who have had HPV but do not call it that.

[Chicup 41]

jandjnyswingers said:

We've heard different things on this (whether it is in fact curable or not) and as far as we are concerned if you were infected at any point we are not interested in playing with you whether soft swap or full swap. Before playing with anyone we ask them when the last time they were tested and if they have anything. If they fail the question by either not having been tested in the last 6 months, hesitating, obviously lying, or indicating they have an STD or HIV we will pass. In addition, we do make sure we look before touching the other person's equipment and we use protection for penetration. Obviously this doesn't protect us completely but these precautions can help steer us clear from potentially dangerous playmates. We don't think in terms of whether contracting something is inevitable, we simply take as many precautions as we possibly can. The sad fact is that we see too much reckless behavior at swingers parties and that is a shame ?

 

Well the bad news for you is that

 

HPV

 

Quote

There is no test that can guarantee that anyone (particularly men) are not infected with HPV.

 

Quote

- Over a typical college career approximately 60% of sexually active women will become infected. While it is assumed that a similar number of men are also infected, there are no good statistics as it is harder to test for HPV in men than women.

 

So while obviously you can set any rules you want, and I completely agree there is too much reckless behavior, you still will have close to the same risks as anyone else in terms of getting HPV.

 

From the same site.

 

Quote

The Good News:

 

* The large majority of people cure themselves (usually without ever knowing that they had been infected). Average length of time from infection to cure is about 8 months. Most times, if low risk HPV is detected in a woman without symptoms, we would recommend only "watchful waiting" as treatment.

* Early changes on the cervix which could lead to cancer are nearly always discovered on Pap tests.

* Warts, if they develop, are usually treatable.

* The HPV virus is so common that it can almost be considered normal to have it.

* HPV, as well as other STI's, is no more common at Rutgers University than other similar institutions.

 

Note the word cure

[JoeSnoopy 15]

as far as we are concerned if you were infected at any point we are not interested in playing with you

 

Statistically, if you've played with anymore than about 4-5 different people (or they have collectively played with others) -- you have already exposed yourselves to HPV... This is exactly what I was asking in my reply post. I see statements like this and it makes me wonder. Are you assuming that since there we no adverse symptoms, then no HPV?

[atlas 15]

My wife and I are still newbies, and we both get very nervous about this topic. One thought that has kept us from turning back is: How would it be different if we were single? If either of us were single, we'd be playing the same odds. With each partner you take a new risk no matter your intentions or precautions, so what's the difference? You're either sexually promiscuous and take your chances or stay celibate/monogamous. We don't plan on being bed notchers, but beyond that, you're somewhat in the game with all the risks, or you sit out.

[willyoats 324]

One of our closest friends has never had intercourse with anyone but her husband. Even so, she got herpes, presumably from oral sex. They went to our club regularly and never had any trouble finding others who wanted to play on their terms, i.e., a kind of foreplay with other partners before they had intercourse with each other. That included my wife and me many times at the club or at home.

 

I think if you are open and honest (and desireable) you will not have any difficulty fitting in at a club.

 

We know another couple that does not have any STD but who know couples in their area who do. They told us about a website started by one of the infected men that seeks to match up couples who already have herpes or HPV. The assumption is that already infected couples can have sex with each other without any additional risk.

 

I don't remember the address for the site. Sorry.