I was routinely ignored, rejected, and rudely treated at parties...

[RnCinNorCal 15]

Racism in the Lifestyle??

 

Ohhhh you betcha. Either that, or some swingers will expose others to embarrassment and humiliation in order to ensure that their preferences are tended to.

 

Back in 2005, at our first---very first---swinging experience, we were invited to a small (maybe 12 people at the maximum) sex party in a hotel room. The hostess was a black woman with whom I'd corresponded for some months and had some rather desultory sex only once. However, once I e-mailed her a photo of my mixed-race lady (I'm a white kid, BTW), she wanted us at her next shindig. She also mentioned a Latina friend of hers who'd seen our photos and was interested in me. Fair enough, so we went.

 

Apparently the only reason we were invited was because of my lady (now my wife); the other women, including the Latina who claimed interest in me, were there solely for a helping of BBC. I was turned down by every woman in the room, and I had endure knowing that my lady was being serviced by a rather mousy white fellow who feigned nervousness in order to elicit multiple-female attention. I was relegated to the sidelines until, after an hour had passed, I told my girl that we were leaving. I was convinced that our hostess and the other women present had absolutely no intention of allowing me to participate. We chalked it up to beginner's bad luck, thinking that it couldn't get worse.

 

It did.

 

In early 2006 we attended a M&G of a party group wherein we were apparently "good enough" to pass muster with them. I hadn't given it much consideration at the time, but I indeed noticed that (1) all of the women save the hostess/moderator were women of color, and (2) all of the men were either men of color, or the bald, bearded, thuggish white men who looked like they had a rap sheet 100 yards long or aspired to do so. Despite my deja-vu regarding the above-mentioned experience, we attended the party anyway. Just as before, I was routinely ignored, rejected, and otherwise rudely treated as I was the ONLY white male with hair on his head and a clean-shaven face. One of the thug types had glommed onto my lady and literally followed us around all night, no matter to whom we spoke or where we sat. So, she and I were going to play together, by ourselves, on one of the beds in the living room; once we started she shut down and seemed uninterested, and all the while, the little thug was parked practically in our collective lap. I whispered to my girl "You want to play with him, don't you?" After she enthusiastically nodded her head with a grin of which the Cheshire Cat would be proud, I walked out of the room and let her be escorted into the "Dark Room" wherein (I later was told) she had a sort of mini-threesome with the gadfly and another fellow who was already in the room. The hostess apparently toojk pity on me and "allowed" me to eat her out, and when we kissed I pulled gently on her lip, and she ran out of the room, later claiming that I deliberately bit her lip to draw blood. While I awaited her return, her guests are all looking at me, with my pants down, just staring silently. Later on, I still received rejection after rejection---and ended up alone in the patio, waiting for my lady to finish up her business. After over 45 minutes of cooling my heels, I admit I got up, collected her shoes, threw them into the "Dark Room" and said "OK, we are outta here." It took her another 30 minutes before we were finally out the door. We came very close to breaking up that night.

 

The next day I wrote the hostess an e-mail to tell her how humiliated I felt at the hands of her and her guests. Her reply was essentially a counter accusation of "starting drama" ( the catch-all excuse used when a host or hostess mistreats you and you call him or her on it) and biting her lip on purpose (just not true). Then came the kicker: we were invited only because everyone wanted my lady to attend; I was excess baggage, to be merely tolerated and deliberately culled.

 

I do not begrudge anyone their preferences and desires, so long as it's all safe and sane. However, I would think that one would populate a party exclusively with those who share such preferences, and not do so at another, undesired person's expense.

[DiscreetDesires 32]

I don't think this is necessarily racism.

You mention that there were other white men attending both parties, correct? Well.. then it's not racism.

Maybe there was something particular about you as a person that they did not find attractive or even some kind of vibe you were giving off.

Are these your only experiences in 5 years?

These situations happened 4 years ago, and maybe it's time you move past them. I'm not trying to be mean here, but sometimes people can hold onto negativity for way too long. This should be something to learn from and then take with you.

 

If you know that you will be hurt to some degree if your woman plays, and you do not get to, maybe y'all should only play together.

If your lady was completely uninterested in playing with you, then y'all should have left the party right then and there. That would need to be discussed!

You both are each others' first and foremost and it should always be that way. I would NEVER think of shutting down and being uninterested in sex w/my hubby just to turn around and say that I wanted to have sex with someone else.

 

Why did you both come so close to breaking up? Was it because you weren't having fun, but she was?

Again.. this would lead me to think again, that you should both stick to playing together. Was there a reason that you could not join in on the fun she was having in the dark room?

 

I am sorry about this, but I also have to agree with the hostess about the drama. I don't know about the lip biting part, but from what you describe, you paint yourself as the guy sitting in the corner fuming because your lady is having sex with others, but you aren't and then when you've finally gotten upset enough, you find her to demand that you both leave.

This does sound like drama to me.

You both need to talk it out and avoid situations like this in the future.

[prometheius 137]

From Merriam Webster's Dictionary;

 

Racism: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.

 

From what the OP wrote, I don't see anything that implies racism. Most swingers are careful not to present themselves as racists, bigots, or (for the most part) discriminatory in any way that they are aware of. Racism is ugly and has no place in the lifestyle. In fact, most swingers will go out of their way to avoid anything that even smacks of racism. Swingers generally try to present themselves in the most attractive manner that they can. How can a person hope to hook up if they are being ugly?

 

I am wondering if perhaps there was another reason the OP was shunned at these two events. From what was posted, I got the impression that the OP was feeling anxious tension and that maybe the other people attending picked up on that. That would be enough to make me move away as well.

[VegasLee 1,486]

Is there Racism in the Swinging Lifestyles? Yep, there is and has been since the start of time and will be until the end of time. I have seen it all my life and I am betting I will see it until my dying day. Swingers are no different then other people. They are not any more open minded, just different minded.

 

Now, what the OP has posted about has nothing to do with Racism at all.

 

DiscreetDesires and prometheius covered it pretty well but don't anyone get the idea that Racism does not exists , it is alive and well in all parts of life. I don't agree with it, but it is there.

 

Anyone that does not think so is kidding their self and not really watching what is going on around them. After seeing 800 to 1000 "Swingers" a week I can more then say it happens.

[it'sso 198]

I'll give the OP his due. It seems that with many people, if it isn't happening with them personally, then it just can't happen to others. Reverse racism does, indeed exist. Not only in social circumstances, but in the workplace as well.

I guess you just have to be there to see it.

[DiscreetDesires 32]

Reverse racism?

I looked up the definition, and it says racism against the majority. Is it this bad to where we have to have a definition for every little thing now a days?!

To me, racism is racism.. it doesn't matter which race you are, or which race it is being discriminated against.

If I would logically look at the word reverse racism, I would think that it is going in the opposite direction of racism.. which is a good thing. LoL.. guess it shows what I know.

 

Racism does exist in the lifestyle and outside, but this particular scenario does not appear to be racism to me.

[nola40scpl 45]

I'll give the OP his due. It seems that with many people, if it isn't happening with them personally, then it just can't happen to others. Reverse racism does, indeed exist. Not only in social circumstances, but in the workplace as well.

I guess you just have to be there to see it.

 

just to clarify a point here and one which is also one of my biggest pet peeves. understand i am not calling your dumb by any means, but please get a grip on the english language. racism is racism whether it is whites toward blacks, blacks toward whites, etc. think about what you just wrote. see the definition of racism posted earlier.

 

here's the definition of reverse: opposite or contrary in position, direction, order, or character

 

now what would REVERSE racism mean?

 

now back to what the op started the thread about......

 

doesn't seem racist but more of someone taking advantage of a situation they knew they could.

[it'sso 198]

I'll willingly accept the label. "dumb". I barely have any education at all, other than what I have picked up from mimicking others.

[Chicup 41]

Lets not confuse racism from 'not my crowd'.

 

It sounds like you were going with groups that you didn't have anything in common with. Your mistake was not leaving right away and poor communication with your spouse over the issues.

 

As a couple you have to have each others back so to speak. If one is obviously uncomfortable, you stop play but you also have to let her know you are uncomfortable and want to stop.

[xxxboxy 139]

Lets not confuse racism from 'not my crowd'.

 

It sounds like you were going with groups that you didn't have anything in common with. Your mistake was not leaving right away and poor communication with your spouse over the issues.

 

As a couple you have to have each others back so to speak. If one is obviously uncomfortable, you stop play but you also have to let her know you are uncomfortable and want to stop.

 

That's exactly how I read it.

[divenaked 325]

Sounds to me you were going to the wrong parties.

[RnCinNorCal 15]

Well, I'm going to agree with everyone's general consensus here, and here's why:

 

While it takes two to tango---i.e., both she and I contributed to the failures of our swinging---I'm here to tell you that I, the male half, am the one who really fucked things up.

 

C (the female half of us) once told me that I must be giving off this "negative vibe" whenever we attended a dance or a house party, and I am inclined to agree. Oh, don't get me wrong folks, I denied it for quite a while. However, long after our last such attendance, now she won't even consider attending a dance just to go dancing, because she doesn't "equate it with having any fun." That's because of me.

 

I have a near-paralyzing fear of rejection. I did some swinging as a single man before I met C in 2004, and since I wasn't sufficiently young/tall/thin/hairless/hung, my connections were very, very few compared to other single men in that particular area. I was a well-liked figure in the chat room, but in person I was relegated to the sidelines. When C and I started swinging, it was more of the same, and I couldn't just shake it off and move on. I will admit I became inwardly upset when I felt I wasn't getting nearly the attention that C was getting, and that other men were having no trouble getting a dance partner, much less a sex partner for later on. My feeling is that while I am not morbidly obese, most women in the swinging community where we are find me too big, or having too much body hair, or something that turns them away. We would attend pre-dance pool parties and no one would talk to us for more than a few minutes, if at all. Others would advise us to be ourselves and just strike up conversations with other couples at the events, but that only worked when C did so solo; when I tried it or we tried we would get the look that told us we were definitely interrupting something. What very few connections we made were either unsatisfying or downright unpleasant. More dates were broken than made, and one couple even dumped us 30 minutes after we met them.

 

C is a gregarious BBW with a welcoming disposition and a disarming smile---it wasn't her fault. That leaves me, and I seem to have soured it for us both. Something I did or didn't do/say repelled others, and the snowball effect kicked in when my frustration and hurt feelings got the better of me. I am not certain how to fix this, because no one we encountered pointed out the root problem. Even if C wanted to go back to the playground, I'm afraid I'd re-fuck it up.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Sadly, we hear this same report from many men, regardless of the race of their wife. Some will even tell you that swinging is all about the wives and that Women Rule Swinging. I don't think it's a race thing, I think it might be a YOU thing. There are some guys who are going to have an easier time in swinging and some guys who are going to have a harder time. Couples, like yourselves, who are ok with splitting up at parties often pay that price of one partner (most often the lady) having more fun while the other partner waits on the couch. This seems to be what you are experiencing.

 

One way to ensure this does not happen is to not play separately and not go to parties like this where you are expected to do so. Meet other couples one on one or go to clubs and hook up TOGETHER. If a couple isn't interested in both of you then don't bother. We've turned down a number of couples because they only wanted a woman, sorry but we don't play that way (and we are both white).

[Newpants 21]

Well, I'm going to agree with everyone's general consensus here, and here's why:

 

While it takes two to tango---i.e., both she and I contributed to the failures of our swinging---I'm here to tell you that I, the male half, am the one who really fucked things up.

 

C (the female half of us) once told me that I must be giving off this "negative vibe" whenever we attended a dance or a house party, and I am inclined to agree. Oh, don't get me wrong folks, I denied it for quite a while. However, long after our last such attendance, now she won't even consider attending a dance just to go dancing, because she doesn't "equate it with having any fun." That's because of me.

 

I have a near-paralyzing fear of rejection. I did some swinging as a single man before I met C in 2004, and since I wasn't sufficiently young/tall/thin/hairless/hung, my connections were very, very few compared to other single men in that particular area. I was a well-liked figure in the chat room, but in person I was relegated to the sidelines. When C and I started swinging, it was more of the same, and I couldn't just shake it off and move on. I will admit I became inwardly upset when I felt I wasn't getting nearly the attention that C was getting, and that other men were having no trouble getting a dance partner, much less a sex partner for later on. My feeling is that while I am not morbidly obese, most women in the swinging community where we are find me too big, or having too much body hair, or something that turns them away. We would attend pre-dance pool parties and no one would talk to us for more than a few minutes, if at all. Others would advise us to be ourselves and just strike up conversations with other couples at the events, but that only worked when C did so solo; when I tried it or we tried we would get the look that told us we were definitely interrupting something. What very few connections we made were either unsatisfying or downright unpleasant. More dates were broken than made, and one couple even dumped us 30 minutes after we met them.

 

C is a gregarious BBW with a welcoming disposition and a disarming smile---it wasn't her fault. That leaves me, and I seem to have soured it for us both. Something I did or didn't do/say repelled others, and the snowball effect kicked in when my frustration and hurt feelings got the better of me. I am not certain how to fix this, because no one we encountered pointed out the root problem. Even if C wanted to go back to the playground, I'm afraid I'd re-fuck it up.

 

As you have caught on to, this has nothing to do with racism. If you are to blame women not playing with you as racism then you will also have to make claim that every woman that has gone to bed with you has been simply because you are white.

 

People often try to blame their rejection on the prejudices of others and that they are being rejected over things for which they have no control ie race, age, height, size of penis etc. This may help relieve some of the immediate pain but by not accepting accountability it also perpetuates the problem by becoming a bitter victim. Being a bitter victim is a guarenteed road to failure.

 

However by accepting accountability of your successes and failures you can empower yourself to improve your game and from that point on you can take credit for your successes.

 

What you need is a lifestyle coach that can help you bring out some of your best qualities as well as work on your challenges to improve your chances of success. (BTW if you were going down on some gal and making out at a party, you were more successful than most of the male 1/2s I've seen at partys)

 

If you are overweight, you can make a huge impact on your success by simply acheiving a healthy ht/wt proportion (BBWs are often accepted and welcomed in the lifestyle, overweight men are not ) If you are abnormally wooly there is treatment for that as well.

 

Another huge thing for many men is simply to improve some of their social skills and learn to talk to women and interact socially with them as well as to learn to flirt, dance, charm and wooo women.

 

Another biggie is if one is to survive life in the swinging world one must also learn to manage rejection. Fear of rejection and bitterness when it happens will be a kiss of death to even the young, hot, slender, blond female.

 

To sum this all up, you gotta get "GAME". All of those things are learned skills and you can learn them too. Read books, read this forumboard, talk to people, ask questions, get in the gym and buy a new wardrobe, learn new social skills etc etc

 

If you can find someone knowledgable and understanding that can be your mentor and lifestyle coach that will do more than anything else to help you.

 

Right now you are like the guy that walks on to a golf course for the first time saying, "how hard can it be to hit a little ball into a hole?" and then gets frustrated and angry when he spends the whole day trying to find his balls in the weeds.

 

Get some coaching and learn to play the game and then you can keep your balls out of the weeds.

[padoc 1,703]

Racism my ass! Two of the best things about swinging are choice and honesty! We get to choose who we play with and how we do it. The original poster simply chose the wrong parties to attend and judging from the tone of his posts, may have added to the problem by his attitude. No one wanted to play with him? Too bad, that was their choice. Accepting an invitation to a swingers gathering does not entitle someone to get laid. He would not have rubbed bellies with someone had he not showered for a week. How is a hygiene choice any different from one made by penis size, skin tone or body weight?

 

Yes, racism exists but it probably isn't the only reason this guy didn't get laid and even if it was, so what? Unlike real life, swingers can choose who they associate with. We would not attend a BBC party nor would we share an interlude with an individual simply because he/she was black (or asian, or redheaded, or a dwarf). That is our choice and not racist.

[MulderNScully 19]

I was going to make a separate post regarding this issue, but seeing how this is as engaging--and surprisingly thoughtful--discussion about the Lifestyle and racism let us share our issue we're dealing with right now.

 

Scully and I are an interracial couple in real life. I'm 6-7 and 298lbs; she's red haired, got tattoos on her back and ankle, and is a proudly described "hippy/non-conformist". We've participated in the Lifestyle for nearly 10 years together.

 

What we experience as a couple is either several things:

 

*Either people are intimidated by us because we don't easily fit any group or pairing.

 

*Either they avoid us because of my race and size.

 

*Either they engage Scully, but not Mulder.

 

*Either they engage Mulder, but not Scully.

 

*They don't care, they like us as a couple and think we're cool.

 

Sometimes its racism, pure and simple; sometimes its preference, and you can't change that with a person; sometimes its deeper. We had one couple where the woman liked me, as a person, but couldn't engage with me because of a past trauma involving a black individual. Time, healing, and counseling got us to finally get together and have a great time.

 

I'll comment more later but I have to leave for work. I want to say more, but at the moment I think the whole interracial issue is as interesting to us as to the poster.

[RnCinNorCal 15]

In response to "padoc:"

 

Judging from your tone---

 

One of the worst things about swinging is that it is populated in part by haughty, cold-hearted, "I-got-mine-sucker" swaggerers like you two.

 

I've told my tale, bared my errors, admitted my "attitude problem," and did the Mea Culpa Shuffle here in search of a way to prevent it from happening again and improving the experience, and yet here you are---the proverbial "attractive, in-shape" couple who clearly feels they've got the whole scene covered. I'm certain you two lovelies (1) have never a single mistake in your swinging life, (2) are convinced you intimidate the rest of us, and (3) we all hate you because you're beautiful. Why else would you bark out a diatribe like that? Did you read the rest of my postings, or did you merely stop when you had enough ammo to start shooting?

 

Go ahead, take another shot, padoc. I can do this all day if I have to.

[SecretAsianMan 348]

Does racism exist in the lifestyle?? Just like in any aspect of society I wholeheartedly say "Yes" there is racism.

 

There's also just "preferences" when it comes to partner selection. There are few which don't have preferences of SOME sort of another when it comes to partners they choose to play with... and there is a very fine line between the two.

 

To the "OP" - I'm truly sorry you ran into a party situation where you were "tolerated" because you brought along a popular party-favor. That seriously sucks and I hope you never run into that again.

 

At any rate... hope those were isolated incidents for you and you've since found a good group of friends / party-clubs to attend where you BOTH felt desired & enjoyed yourselves

[prometheius 137]

RnCinNorCal, more than a few times I have seen on this forum where people chose to read posts in a mindset that left the reader thinking they were being berated by another poster. It seems that this is what is happening here. If you will spend a great deal of time reading the multitude of threads here, you will find that padoc did not post a diatribe. Padoc was pointing out that how things go for you in the lifestyle is dependant on what you do and how you act. I've read all of your posts and want to bring up the fact that you stated that you: "want to learn more about how to improve our experience, such that if and when return to the playground we will have more rewarding encounters and, especially, more friends." Your last post was rather harsh and unbecoming of someone who seeks to make friends. If you really want to find new friends and possible play partners I would suggest a more positive approach. It is very difficult for a thin-skinned person to enjoy one’s self in the lifestyle unless they can learn to shrug it off when they hear things they would rather not. Try to remember that when you meet new people, whether it is in person or on the web, they will tend to mirror what you project. If you choose to exude negativity, that is what you’ll get in return. Conversely, if you present a positive attitude, people will be more accepting towards you. If you are unable to get passed having an attitude of “it’s me against the world”, I don’t think you are going to have much success with the lifestyle.

[Chicup 41]

The problem of course is that padoc didn't read the whole thread and responded to the Op without reading the follow up post.

 

Op:Racism

US: Its not Racism

Op: Yea you are right, my mistake, I really screwed up, it totally my fault.

Padoc: You suck op.

[padoc 1,703]

Oh my! Your post certainly backs my assertion that your attitude affected your chances of getting laid. Add to the fact that you can somehow extrapolate from our post that we "haughty, cold-hearted swaggers who never made a mistake".

Funny, I thought we were talking about your mistakes. Any we have made are irrelevant to this discussion

My guess is that you'll continue to have problems finding playmates at swingers functions until you adjust your attitude.

[savcpl912 15]

I have to chime in here. I have had a similar instance. What it boils down to they wanted my wife n I can surely understand why. But I (the guy) am the average one. Not the bad boy and all just fair looking. But in the party setting the average get left out. My wife n I have talked on this and now at any setting if both of us are not enjoying it then we are done.

[ItTakes3 19]

I have to chime in here. I have had a similar instance. What it boils down to they wanted my wife n I can surely understand why. But I (the guy) am the average one. Not the bad boy and all just fair looking. But in the party setting the average get left out. My wife n I have talked on this and now at any setting if both of us are not enjoying it then we are done.

 

Add another chime.

 

My wife is beautiful, sexy, funny, flirtatious, and attracts men like honey attracts bears. I'm not good looking, I'm shy and tend to look mean, grumpy and standoffish in crowds. Though I fell in love with her within an hour of meeting, we were friends long before we became lovers. It took her some time to look beyond my appearance and to find what she was looking for inside.

 

Needless to say, traditional swinging events don't work for us, as she gets all the attention and I'm relegated to watching the goldfish swim around the little castle in the bowl, or petting the household pup.

 

Now, she has a few regular playmates she can enjoy whenever she pleases, and like an acorn, I'm occasionally found by a blind squirrel, or some woman who enjoys allowing or receiving a mercy fuck. While the number of playtimes is nowhere near equal, we accept what we have and enjoy what we can.

[olderyder 15]

I have to agree with the other posters, I don't see any racism is what happened to the OP. What I do see is the "norm" for the lifestyle, in So. Calif., at least. After 3 years in the lifestyle, going to parties and doing lots of observing, I have found that no matter what anyone says, anyone who insists on doing things as a couple is only doing mfm's or nothing at all. All you have to do is look around at any given party, and see all the men sitting around waiting while their women are off with the "invited" single guys. It has been my observation, that at the average party, at least 75% of the women play (with singles or other women), and only 5% of the men play (then only with their wives). I'm sure there are a lot of folks out there who will deny the possiblilty of my observations being correct, but just take a look around at the next party you go to, and decide for yourself........

[PB&J 1,086]

I have to agree with the other posters, I don't see any racism is what happened to the OP. What I do see is the "norm" for the lifestyle, in So. Calif., at least. After 3 years in the lifestyle, going to parties and doing lots of observing, I have found that no matter what anyone says, anyone who insists on doing things as a couple is only doing mfm's or nothing at all. All you have to do is look around at any given party, and see all the men sitting around waiting while their women are off with the "invited" single guys. It has been my observation, that at the average party, at least 75% of the women play (with singles or other women), and only 5% of the men play (then only with their wives). I'm sure there are a lot of folks out there who will deny the possiblilty of my observations being correct, but just take a look around at the next party you go to, and decide for yourself........

 

Wow... you're going to the wrong parties, I guess. At the parties we attend (and there have been many over the 3 years we've been in the lifestyle), even if some single guys are present, most people play, male and female.

[Chicup 41]

I have to agree with the other posters, I don't see any racism is what happened to the OP. What I do see is the "norm" for the lifestyle, in So. Calif., at least. After 3 years in the lifestyle, going to parties and doing lots of observing, I have found that no matter what anyone says, anyone who insists on doing things as a couple is only doing mfm's or nothing at all. All you have to do is look around at any given party, and see all the men sitting around waiting while their women are off with the "invited" single guys. It has been my observation, that at the average party, at least 75% of the women play (with singles or other women), and only 5% of the men play (then only with their wives). I'm sure there are a lot of folks out there who will deny the possiblilty of my observations being correct, but just take a look around at the next party you go to, and decide for yourself........

 

The more you post, the more I wonder if you are in fact a swinger, or in some sort of swinger bizzaro world as your experiences are nothing like ours or what anyone has talked about here or any other place.

[exploringRM 305]

I have to agree with the other posters, I don't see any racism is what happened to the OP. What I do see is the "norm" for the lifestyle, in So. Calif., at least. After 3 years in the lifestyle, going to parties and doing lots of observing, I have found that no matter what anyone says, anyone who insists on doing things as a couple is only doing mfm's or nothing at all. All you have to do is look around at any given party, and see all the men sitting around waiting while their women are off with the "invited" single guys. It has been my observation, that at the average party, at least 75% of the women play (with singles or other women), and only 5% of the men play (then only with their wives). I'm sure there are a lot of folks out there who will deny the possiblilty of my observations being correct, but just take a look around at the next party you go to, and decide for yourself........

 

I don't doubt your particular experience at these parties, but our experience has been he complete opposite. Parties we attend, there are no single guys and for the most part the men play with partners other than their wives. I agree the g/g dynamic does sometimes change things but even then it's not a g/g only event. From what I've seen the men that don't play are one of the following:

 

- part of a soft swap couple and not into the harder interaction.

- perfers to watch

- Is either new or so shy or disassociated from the crowd that he does get himself involved in the action.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

I can't agree with olderyder either. Sure there will always be more opportunities for women than men. But it is hardly the level of imbalance you describe.

 

I like to analyze things, including people. It's hobby, fault, habit, whatever you would like to call it. People range in looks from the super hot to the super not and everything in between. Seeing all these groups at parties I have noticed that in each group there are people that have a good time, meet people and hook up, for threesomes, foursomes and moresomes.

 

Watching these folks I have noticed that attitude is a huge determinant in who is going to hook up and who isn't.

 

On the super hot end of things, it is usually an attitude of superiority that knocks them out of play circles. If they hookup, it is usually with those of similar attitudes, but fortunately they are few and far between.

 

On the not so hot end of things, there is often an air of predetermined failure that permeates the air around those that fail to hook up. You see, feel, even smell the difference between them and the not so hot that hook up. It is like they have decided they are not going to hook up and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. People of similar looks, age and body type are busy hooking up because they "know" they will and have a great personality.

 

Sure, looks do account for a good deal of who will hook up with who, but not everything, not even the biggest thing for some people. But a lousy attitude is a killer every time. If you walk into a room with the attitude things will not go your way, then it is pretty darn sure they won't.

 

I am not going to grace the cover of GQ magazine, but I am not a candidate for QQ (Quasimodo Quarterly) magazine either. But, as a generally rule most of the women I am with I would consider that I am dating up (my wife included). But if I went into parties with the fatalist attitude that I was going to strike out because I am so unattractive, or so whatever, then I would say we would have had miserable time in the lifestyle too.

 

BTW, the majority of people we know hook up 2 by 2, a much smaller number of hookups are MFM and even smaller number is groups. The smallest group of all seems to be FMF.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

I'm sure there are a lot of folks out there who will deny the possiblilty of my observations being correct, but just take a look around at the next party you go to, and decide for yourself........

 

I won't deny the possibility that your observations are correct, but if they are, then, you're doing it wrong.

 

 

The more you post, the more I wonder if you are in fact a swinger, or in some sort of swinger bizzaro world as your experiences are nothing like ours or what anyone has talked about here or any other place.

 

Is that the world where the bad guys have goatees?

[slevin 1,374]

Is that the world where the bad guys have goatees?

 

Uh oh! I have a goatee. Damnit, I thought I was a good guy

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

 

Is that the world where the bad guys have goatees?

It's where the men look like Santa Claus and women don't want to sit on their laps.

 

LM

[Gordo 618]

Well, I'm going to agree with everyone's general consensus here, and here's why:

 

While it takes two to tango---i.e., both she and I contributed to the failures of our swinging---I'm here to tell you that I, the male half, am the one who really fucked things up.

 

C (the female half of us) once told me that I must be giving off this "negative vibe" whenever we attended a dance or a house party, and I am inclined to agree. Oh, don't get me wrong folks, I denied it for quite a while. However, long after our last such attendance, now she won't even consider attending a dance just to go dancing, because she doesn't "equate it with having any fun." That's because of me.

 

I have a near-paralyzing fear of rejection. I did some swinging as a single man before I met C in 2004, and since I wasn't sufficiently young/tall/thin/hairless/hung, my connections were very, very few compared to other single men in that particular area. I was a well-liked figure in the chat room, but in person I was relegated to the sidelines. When C and I started swinging, it was more of the same, and I couldn't just shake it off and move on. I will admit I became inwardly upset when I felt I wasn't getting nearly the attention that C was getting, and that other men were having no trouble getting a dance partner, much less a sex partner for later on. My feeling is that while I am not morbidly obese, most women in the swinging community where we are find me too big, or having too much body hair, or something that turns them away. We would attend pre-dance pool parties and no one would talk to us for more than a few minutes, if at all. Others would advise us to be ourselves and just strike up conversations with other couples at the events, but that only worked when C did so solo; when I tried it or we tried we would get the look that told us we were definitely interrupting something. What very few connections we made were either unsatisfying or downright unpleasant. More dates were broken than made, and one couple even dumped us 30 minutes after we met them.

 

C is a gregarious BBW with a welcoming disposition and a disarming smile---it wasn't her fault. That leaves me, and I seem to have soured it for us both. Something I did or didn't do/say repelled others, and the snowball effect kicked in when my frustration and hurt feelings got the better of me. I am not certain how to fix this, because no one we encountered pointed out the root problem. Even if C wanted to go back to the playground, I'm afraid I'd re-fuck it up.

 

I don't know if you're still around to read this but your posts remind me very much of "borderline personality disorder". Hallmarks of which are a heightened fear of rejection (to the point of paralysis at times) and the "vibes" you put off. BPD people feel emotions at up to 80x the level of a normal person. They are so attuned to social rejection that they can sense it in the slightest facial movement or body movement and react accordingly. They will withdraw and become so moody that people then steer clear of them. Or they arrive expecting rejection and proceed to send off the vibes that ensure it.

 

This is just a shot in the dark for me but I've had the experience of dealing with this with a couple of family members and I've read about it extensively and written articles about it. Everything you are saying reminds me of what I've read, heard and seen of the problem.

 

It is curable and there is light at the end of the tunnel (and a fun social life). Please read up on it and if you feel it describes you I'd be happy to talk to you more. There are also a lot of support websites and forums to help.

 

My apologies if I've got it wrong!

[10thBadger 25]

I am a black man and I totally understand what this dude is saying about racism. It does go both ways and the white guys that want to be black guys as he described the white boy thugs get in because they wanna be black and try to act black and thuggish. Brother the only thing I can tell you on this was that I would have thrown the shoes at her just like you did and said get your ass up right now and come with me. If she’s out of the door in five minutes or shall I say probably 30 seconds  she would’ve heard the car going down the road and I would’ve left her a day exactly where she wanted to be. Brother you are better than me because I would’ve bossed up quick and made it clear that her actions were absolutely unacceptable because she is your woman and the fact that she did not want to play with you when she knew that everybody was ignoring you shows that she is disrespecting you on every level.  There is no way I would except that from my wife. My wife is sitting right next to me right now and she said the exact same thing but in a different way. No my wife is not black she is Slavic Russian and she said there was no way I would leave you hanging like that when I see everybody  acting like assholes to you. In fact when we return to her home country of Latvia, which is a former Soviet union country for all of you who do not know. I am the odd man out and my woman doesn’t leave my side for one bit and several times and we have gone to clubs in her country where I am the only person of color, several of the Russian guys  trying to come up to her and pull her away from me even though I usually get in the face real quick, my wife turns into a complete ice queen and cold as Siberia.  And the things that she would say to them in Russian would make a hooker jump out of church and change your religion. 
 

Your girl/wife turned you into a spectator in a team sport and did not give a damn. Like I said once I threw those shoes at her and told her it’s time to go and she did not return to be in 30 seconds, I would have bounced and went right out the door and one of the people in her party would’ve said you better get your clothes on because your husband is driving down the street and I hope you got money for Uber because it looks like you’re gonna need it. Sometimes you just got a boss up dude and not take disrespect and the host of the party, she was part of the plan of everything that was going on. They wanted your lady and your lady didn’t care that you get hurt by it . So your problem is with your lady disrespecting you and she would no longer be my lady because if she’s willing to do that to me and that situation, can you imagine what situation she would do you wrong where is actually extremely important. Tell Coco to pack her bags  and have that to take care of her.

[cuckboat 9]

I have been in a situation where I would take my g/f to a guys house and wait in the living room while the fucked. When they were done I took her home and get the used stuff. What was done to you was humiliating. Me being a major cuck would love it. I can not explain but I would have loved it and accepted my position.

[couplers 4,616]

I'm not sure why, but this thread brings back feelings in me and I must digress.

 

Reading these posts makes me glad that I/we are not traditional swingers.  I would feel left out and awkward even as a woman because early on I became suspicious of men who took an interest without knowing me because I looked and still look much younger than I am.  When I was 17, 18 I looked as if I were 13 - very thin, no tits.  Guys would hit on me who either thought I was that young and willing to risk it or knew my age and had a fetish for flat chested, young looking girls.  (I wondered sometimes if these guys saw my ugly cunt with my big clit and lips, wild bush, they would feel the same.)  For all my outward confidence and assertiveness, I need to be in a comfortable situation to enjoy sex.  My poly family and occasional dalliance have given me this.

Edited July 18, 2022 by couplers

[Kat1970 0]

First of the hostess those folks at the party were trash. Second your lady bears some of the responsibility by not seeing you were uncomfortable not hitting the exit. We also gotta stop disguising fetishes as preference. Also can we stop saying folks that want Black men only Black men to play with as interracial cause its not

[hlgcpl4fun 79]

Sabrina and I have been swinging for many years. When we play with single "straight" males, she prefers BBC. When we go to a BBC party, I  know most, if not all, of the women are there for, you guessed it, BBC. No racism, just what they are there for. We have met couples at BBC parties and met with them later and played. When we go to a BBC party, I do not expect to play, but usually end up getting a blowjob or eating a creampie and sometime even giving a blowjob.