Polyamorous parentage

[Interested One 15]

How many of you ladies in a polyamousous relationship have had a child by the man in your relationship who wasn't your husband?

[couplers 4,577]

Hi, this is Petra. I'm a woman in a poly relationship with my husband and my bf. No kids yet, but hubby and I have talked about it a little, and he said my first baby can be "pot luck," but if it's not his child, the second one will have to be.

 

 

We don't all live in the same house, but my bf lives very close by and we would raise children together. From the way things have gone so far, I think it would give a child or children extended family and support. The only unresolved question - what to tell the grandparents.....

[Interested One 15]

Hi, this is Petra. I'm a woman in a poly relationship with my husband and my bf. No kids yet, but hubby and I have talked about it a little, and he said my first baby can be "pot luck," but if it's not his child, the second one will have to be.

 

 

We don't all live in the same house, but my bf lives very close by and we would raise children together. From the way things have gone so far, I think it would give a child or children extended family and support. The only unresolved question - what to tell the grandparents.....

 

Thanks for sharing that, Petra. It does seem odd to me that your husband would be more accepting of "pot luck" - I love that term! - on your first baby, but insistent that he's certain he's the father the second time around. But that's just me.

 

Yes, I can see advantages, and as you point out, problems, with such a parental situation.

 

I think your question revolves largely around what you are telling your parents about the relationship as it exists at present. If you've told them about it and they accept it, I'm sure they will eventually come to accept the paternity angle.

 

Would YOU be concerned as to which one of the two men you love was the father?

[couplers 4,577]

It does seem odd to me that your husband would be more accepting of "pot luck" - on your first baby, but insistent that he's certain he's the father the second time around.

 

I think your question revolves largely around what you are telling your parents about the relationship as it exists at present. If you've told them about it and they accept it, I'm sure they will eventually come to accept the paternity angle.

 

Would YOU be concerned as to which one of the two men you love was the father?

 

Hubby insists the second be his only if the first isn't.

 

 

My parents, hubby's parents, bf's parents - none of them know of our poly arrangement and would not be accepting of the situation. But I always expected the truth to come out at some point and hope that the baby(ies) will mellow their attitude.

 

 

My hope is to have at least one with each, preferably one with my bf and more than one with hubby. Hubby has a gf as well (mine too). Most of the talk of babies is between her and me. She wants David to be the father of her child. Right now it's all just theoretical, so it's easy to just think about it, but children are work so that is why we are waiting. The most important thing for us girls is to go through pregnancy and raise our babies together.

[it'sso 198]

Not to be controversial, but having helped raise three children with my wife, I think the issues faced in parenthood are complex enough without introducing a "baby's daddy" into the mix.

my opinion only

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

I believe the more loving adults involved in a child's life the better. It seems to me that a poly situation could work out great for raising children. There are many cultures where this is/was done and the children with multiple fathers have higher survival rates.

[Alura 2,773]

Robert H. Rimmer wrote a book about this subject back in the '60s or '70s, called Proposition 31. It was a sequel to his better-known novel, The Harrad Experiment.

 

While Harrad explores the lives of teenagers in college and a new sexual moral code they were living, 31 is a sequel about four students who, after graduation, form a Polyamorous union. "Proposition 31" is a proposed new law in California which is to legalize multiple unions like theirs.

 

They even design and build a home to accomodate them all and their children.

 

Rimmer's books are interesting reads. I'd suggest reading them in order.

 

Alura

[Big Rock 173]

Hubby insists the second be his only if the first isn't.

 

 

My parents, hubby's parents, bf's parents - none of them know of our poly arrangement and would not be accepting of the situation. But I always expected the truth to come out at some point and hope that the baby(ies) will mellow their attitude.

 

 

My hope is to have at least one with each, preferably one with my bf and more than one with hubby. Hubby has a gf as well (mine too). Most of the talk of babies is between her and me. She wants David to be the father of her child. Right now it's all just theoretical, so it's easy to just think about it, but children are work so that is why we are waiting. The most important thing for us girls is to go through pregnancy and raise our babies together.

Have you given thought as to how the children, themselves, will perceive this, when they are old enough to understand? Or how they will be treated at school by classmates and others? Perhaps home-schooling would be best.

[couplers 4,577]

Have you given thought as to how the children, themselves, will perceive this, when they are old enough to understand? Or how they will be treated at school by classmates and others? Perhaps home-schooling would be best.

 

 

I know couples with adopted children, children conceived in vitro, children conceived with a donor egg/husband's sperm/carried by the wife, the age-old step children in a blended family, a child that goes back and forth between parents and their new partners, and even one where the mother left the little girl to be raised by friends and only drops in about every month or so. Each of them know of their origins in an age appropriate way and don't care, nor do their friends. As a poster stated above, the most important thing is having loving, caring attentive adults around. The four of us have our faults, but all of us are hard-working, civil people and none of us smoke, drink, use drugs, gamble or watch endless sports on TV.

 

 

Would it matter to you (or anyone else) if you found out that one of your ancestors was a king, or a murderer, or a prostitute, or a saint? Children must be treated as well as we can provide for them in every respect. But other than that, we are here now and that is all that matters.

[Big Rock 173]

I know couples with adopted children, children conceived in vitro, children conceived with a donor egg/husband's sperm/carried by the wife, the age-old step children in a blended family, a child that goes back and forth between parents and their new partners, and even one where the mother left the little girl to be raised by friends and only drops in about every month or so. Each of them know of their origins in an age appropriate way and don't care, nor do their friends. As a poster stated above, the most important thing is having loving, caring attentive adults around. The four of us have our faults, but all of us are hard-working, civil people and none of us smoke, drink, use drugs, gamble or watch endless sports on TV.

 

 

Would it matter to you (or anyone else) if you found out that one of your ancestors was a king, or a murderer, or a prostitute, or a saint? Children must be treated as well as we can provide for them in every respect. But other than that, we are here now and that is all that matters.

Don't misunderstand me, Petra, I'm not criticizing, just pointing out some of the issues you will face. Believe me, it very much WILL matter to the children, when they are old enought to understand these things. They will wonder why their family is different from the other kids families. The other kids Parents WILL find out about any irregularities, and WILL use this knowledge to discriminate against your kids. I'm from an interracial family and know what I'm talking about. The invitro thing and the fatherhood issue doesn't matter nearly as much as the appearance of having a nuclear family. Preferably a white one. I understand that all of you are decent people, and I'm sure you will make fine parents. This is something you will have to face.

[Alura 2,773]

Kids are resilliant. They'll adapt to almost any situation, short of war or famine, and grow up just fine as long as they know they're loved.

 

But Rocky is right. There's no way to keep information away from them.

 

Alura

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

My parents, hubby's parents, bf's parents - none of them know of our poly arrangement and would not be accepting of the situation. But I always expected the truth to come out at some point and hope that the baby(ies) will mellow their attitude.

 

I would make sure that your parents know prior to having baby, particularly if there is likely to be fall out. Introducing your poly status at the same time you announce the baby (or even in near proximity) may have greater negative consequences than if they have time to let it sink in.

 

If they have time to process it for a while, a year or 10, lol, before you announce a new addition then I think the dynamics change. If you announce them together or even within a few months, the negative response could be linked to the child forever in their eyes. I know that may sound silly, because the child will always be associated with your poly relationship, but I think the human mind works in strange ways.

 

If you tell them about the poly and a baby at the same time, they will think you only told them because of the child, the child will carry some subconscious blame for them finding out. If you tell them about the poly relationship, they may not be accepting, even angry at first. But when a baby comes later then they MAY still not be happy about your LS choices, but they MAY see the child somewhat separate from that. Or at least one could hope.

 

As for how other kids will relate to your child, some kids will always pick on other kids that are different. In your case it just becomes a little more obvious as to what those other kids will seize on to be to point of teasing. Others will accept them without much thought. We are in the process of raising two kids, and have found that parents that are accepting of difference raise children that are accepting. Those that are judgmental raise children that are judgmental.

 

Kids are blissfully ignorant of many of the divisive issues that we as adults face, such as race, religion, politics and sexual orientation. For many kids the first time the hear anything negative about some issue is from peers, who got it from their parents. When our kids come home and ask questions about some topic that can be divisive, we sit down with them and explain things. It is amazing how smart they can be when you lay things out for them.

 

My oldest has come home a few times in the past year asking questions like that. I am always so proud when we lay things out and he comes to his own conclusion how wrong it is to be judgmental of some situations.

 

I am not a psychologist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[Big Rock 173]

Kids are resilliant. They'll adapt to almost any situation, short of war or famine, and grow up just fine as long as they know they're loved.

 

But Rocky is right. There's no way to keep information away from them.

 

Alura

That's all I'm trying to say, is to be aware of these issues. When the time comes for your kids to be invited to B-day parties or sleep-overs, the parent s of the other kids will, in all probability, find out about your relationships, either from their kids, other parents, or even your own kids. When it becomes common knowledge that little Bobby has TWO moms and TWO Dads, how many invitations do you think they will get? It may mean nothing to you, but I assure you it will mean something to your kids.

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

First, I think our society is opening up and I don't think Big Rock's scenario of requiring home schooling or missed sleepover opportunities is a realistic concern for your potential children.

 

However, If someone would deny an invitation to a child based on having poly or gay or inter-racial parents you wouldn't want your child to be involved with them anyway! If I heard that was going on with my children's friends I would have a serious talk with those parents. Every family is different. Mine is, yours is, it's no reason to treat the children differently.

[Alura 2,773]

"A [person] can not tell another what to do." —Ten Bears

 

When Laura and I decided to have kids we stopped swinging. We wanted both our children to be ours. We felt that there were too many possibilities for life to take an unexpected turn, death, illness, war, earth upheavals, the elimination of our food supply, etc.

 

In my opinion, a family needs to be close-knit. That includes controlled paternity.

 

Still, an extended family can be a good thing. Among my people, aunts, uncles, grandparents, took an active role in raising all the kids. They all loved me. It was not, however, necessary for my uncle's sperm to have begun me for him to teach me the history of our family, how to ride, how to hunt, how to love, and how to take pride in our foundations.

 

I fail to see any advantage (and many unnecessary challenges) in random pregnancies, but that's just my opinion.

 

Alura

[MN Tom 251]

We agree with others that if someone wants to go down this road (and their parents/close relatives are nearby) we would mention the poly aspect before the kids come along.

 

Otherwise you do run a chance of having someone "blame" the child or even attach the negative feelings they have about the poly situation to the child.

 

 

On the other aspect of how a kid growing up in this situation would feel, that all depends on how you all handle it. We've encountered it once, and for our kids (grade school at the time) it wasn't a big deal. They asked us about it, we didnt really know what to tell them. The situation we ran into was a 3 way, it was 2 guys and one gal, with (from what the parents told us) one guy being the "ex" and the other guy being the "current" hubby. They all lived in one house, and the 2 kids they had were one of each.

 

We are the type of parents who meet other parents before our kids play over at their homes, and when we met them, we met one guy and the gal who said they were the parents. Seemed ok, so our daughter played over there that afternoon.

We went to pick her up later on, and the other guy was there too. We said hi, he said he was the father, and then we were confused and we asked who the other guy was then. Then he told us the situation. It was initially a bit unsettling to us to be honest, hadnt come across that situation before.

[Big Rock 173]

First, I think our society is opening up and I don't think Big Rock's scenario of requiring home schooling or missed sleepover opportunities is a realistic concern for your potential children.

 

However, If someone would deny an invitation to a child based on having poly or gay or inter-racial parents you wouldn't want your child to be involved with them anyway! If I heard that was going on with my children's friends I would have a serious talk with those parents. Every family is different. Mine is, yours is, it's no reason to treat the children differently.

I completely disagree with this. Child abuse and abductions are on the rise all over the world. Responsible parents are taking great pains to thoroughly investigate the families of their children's friends. I know I would. Plus, there is a great increase in fundamentalist religious people, who wouldn't consider a Poly family , a family at all. A poly family is way different from a Gay/lesbian family or an interracial one. In both of those settings, there is usually two parents, not three or four. I'm not trying to be a buzz-kill, but these are some of the issues you will have to face, and they aren't going to go away, no matter how much you love your kids and try to prevent

your lifestyle choices from possibly having a negative impact on them.

[BiloxiCouple 695]

I completely disagree with this. Child abuse and abductions are on the rise all over the world. Responsible parents are taking great pains to thoroughly investigate the families of their children's friends. I know I would. Plus, there is a great increase in fundamentalist religious people, who wouldn't consider a Poly family , a family at all. A poly family is way different from a Gay/lesbian family or an interracial one. In both of those settings, there is usually two parents, not three or four. I'm not trying to be a buzz-kill, but these are some of the issues you will have to face, and they aren't going to go away, no matter how much you love your kids and try to prevent

your lifestyle choices from possibly having a negative impact on them.

 

Live your life the best way you know if that includes a polyamory family. Don't let the world rule your choices.

 

You will have to face many choices raising a family. Make sure they are your choices.

 

Big Rock I still can't figure out why child abductions and abuse all over the world have anything to do with this. The only thing you are right about in this whole quote is the "buzz-kill".

 

The invitro thing and the fatherhood issue doesn't matter nearly as much as the appearance of having a nuclear family. Preferably a white one.

 

Another comment in this thread that I completely don't understand. What are you trying to say? The only thing I can come to now that I have re-read it several times, that white is preferable? Please explain

[slevin 1,374]

Big Rock I still can't figure out why child abductions and abuse all over the world have anything to do with this. The only thing you are right about in this whole quote is the "buzz-kill".

 

There isn't a connection. Its just an ad hominem statement, which is all too common in debate these days.

[BiloxiCouple 695]

There isn't a connection. Its just an ad hominem statement, which is all too common in debate these days.

 

Exactly. You said it better than I could. The whole post I believe was one of those. Not relevant at all. I got baited in and couldn't resist today.

[Big Rock 173]

Live your life the best way you know if that includes a polyamory family. Don't let the world rule your choices.

 

You will have to face many choices raising a family. Make sure they are your choices.

 

Big Rock I still can't figure out why child abductions and abuse all over the world have anything to do with this. The only thing you are right about in this whole quote is the "buzz-kill".

 

 

 

Another comment in this thread that I completely don't understand. What are you trying to say? The only thing I can come to now that I have re-read it several times, that white is preferable? Please explain

The point is tha parents are very careful these days about who they allow their kids to play with or visit. If Petra chooses to raise children in a Poly family, most parents will not allow their children to associate with her kids, more than necessary, because of intolerance. The world is getting LESS tolerant, not more. FuncoupleDayton said that our society is "opening up," I don't believe that to be true.

[Big Rock 173]

My comments are voiced to help Petra and her family be aware of the intolerant attitudes prevelant in this country, and the issues they will have to face. Unless there is some kind of LS-friendly community that I'm un-aware of, in most cases, her kids , like I was, will be discriminated against. I have very vivid memories of the "sin", of being different. So she and her men should be very careful about how much they tell their kids about their Poly relationship. I'm not trying to persuade or dissuade anybody from doing anything.

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

I think a lot depends on the area of the country you live in, or even different areas within the same state. If you live in an area that is intolerant and you can't establish a comfortable niche within the community find a way to move.

 

You can teach your children discretion from an early age. Not everyone needs to know, even children have a right to privacy. This does not reflect shame about the relationships. But since your relationship is longterm poly rather than swinging you can't really hide it from them.

[Big Rock 173]

I think a lot depends on the area of the country you live in, or even different areas within the same state. If you live in an area that is intolerant and you can't establish a comfortable niche within the community find a way to move.

 

You can teach your children discretion from an early age. Not everyone needs to know, even children have a right to privacy. This does not reflect shame about the relationships. But since your relationship is longterm poly rather than swinging you can't really hide it from them.

I agree that discretion should be practiced, but I'm afraid that the nature of the relationship will , at some point, come out. How Petra and her SO'S handle it, will have a great deal to say about, how they are percieved by their kids.

[wisconsin 58]

Move to our area please. I would let my kids have sleepovers at your house. Wish my BF would move in with us..........

[couplers 4,577]

Hi, Petra again. Thank you for all the comments. One thing that comes through in all the posts, whether you agree with them or not, is the concern for the children. It is, indeed, the most important thing above all.

 

My reply to a couple of points:

- I agree that the grandparents need to be told, and sooner is better because it will take a while for them to get over it. From the discussion the four of us have had thus far, we plan to tell all four sets of our parents at the same time of our arrangement and plans for children.

- Our location is not "Memphis" (I put a city other than the one we live in registered here for anonimity), but a much more liberal location. BTW, Petra is my name, but if you happened upon a last name here it is actually a nom de plum from the maternal side of my family.

- I expect there will be some people that morally disapprove, but the primary reaction will be curious acceptance. My guess is that there will be a buzz that quickly dies down. It's OK if some people shun us and the children, just don't be rude to the children. We all work in situations driven strongly by merit and not primarily relationships, and where there is defense of individuality. Well see. I am prepared to wear the label in the office of "the woman sleeping with two guys" just the way there is "the gay guy" and "the Muslim woman."

- The plan is for Clair to move in with us in a larger house nearby once we expect children to be on their way. Red will keep his own place. The guys get along fine and so do Red and Clair, but Red is just too different, too fussy to live with anyone else. We all need a little of our own space and provide for it, but Red needs to control all his space.

- This topic of this post is different in that it croses over the line from sex to reproduction. Not a bad thing, just a different conversation. Hubby has pointed out that women we know (hardly know) that would never talk about sex in mixed company have revealed all kinds of intimite details about pregnancy, childbirth and breast feeding. So I share with you that my most emotional thoughts are of Clare and I sharing the experience of pregnancy and rearing children together. Share things that I expect a man will never understand.

[Big Rock 173]

It sounds like you have a pretty realistic awareness of the issues you may face, and I think that if you (all of You) put the kids first, always, you should be able to tackle any future concerns. Best of Luck to you.

[sextoyfancy 15]

I believe the more loving adults involved in a child's life the better. It seems to me that a poly situation could work out great for raising children. There are many cultures where this is/was done and the children with multiple fathers have higher survival rates.

 

i agree with you!

[Big Rock 173]

I believe the more loving adults involved in a child's life the better. It seems to me that a poly situation could work out great for raising children. There are many cultures where this is/was done and the children with multiple fathers have higher survival rates.

I completely disagree. The partial attention of many fathers is, in no way, the equivilent of the full attention of one father. That is why there is no modern culture that practices Poly as a cultural norm. Sure there are a few primitive cultures in Africa and Asia that practice Poly , but they are very backwards, socially, politically and economically, and place the children at a huge disadvantage, when they themselves grow up. Even those cultures that originally were poly are rapidly transitioning to the western model of marriage. Poly marriages in Asia are almost a thing of the past, and they are growing scarcer in Africa as well. Also with the increase of fundamentalist Christian/Muslim religions, in the modern world, the chances of Poly relationships being anything more than a very minor aberrant is slim to none.

[Big Rock 173]

I want to have a Poly relationship with the two women in my life, but the more I read and study, the more I realize that being Poly doesn't solve any of my problems, it just opens up a whole new set of problems.

[swing.kidz 367]

I completely disagree. The partial attention of many fathers is, in no way, the equivilent of the full attention of one father. That is why there is no modern culture that practices Poly as a cultural norm. Sure there are a few primitive cultures in Africa and Asia that practice Poly , but they are very backwards, socially, politically and economically, and place the children at a huge disadvantage, when they themselves grow up. Even those cultures that originally were poly are rapidly transitioning to the western model of marriage. Poly marriages in Asia are almost a thing of the past, and they are growing scarcer in Africa as well. Also with the increase of fundamentalist Christian/Muslim religions, in the modern world, the chances of Poly relationships being anything more than a very minor aberrant is slim to none.

 

Wow...you really have taken this to a whole new level. First, I don't know how you can quantify anything you have said here. I agree that 'many fathers' is not equivalent to one father, but HOW DO YOU KNOW that 'partial attention by many fathers' (whatever that means) is less beneficial than 'full attention by one father' (again, whatever that means) for the children involved? I think that is more your opinion and less any supported fact.

 

Second, cultures in Africa and Asia that 'practice poly' are 'backwards socially, politically...etc'? That is a highly ethnocentric point of view, and coming from someone who 'understands discrimination' I would think you'd know how to use a little more critical analysis. I think you have bought into the lies of American society that our way of life is the best and nothing else can compare. Then you straw man this to basically imply that they are backwards because they are poly...that is quite an implication and judging by that statement it serves to add more evidence to your opinion that only one MOM and one DAD should have kids...no alternatives.

 

Not to further add to the hijack of this post, but if these 'poly' cultures are dying (if that is even happening, I am just placating your claims), is it because they voluntarily want to adopt some western ideology? Or is it because they are being forced to do it? Or is there some other outside influence that is unseen? You can't just assert that because a subservient culture assimilates into its dominant culture that the less powerful culture actually wants to do it. And even if assimilation is successful, does that mean all of that primary culture is discarded? Or do the two cultures combine with aspects of both the subservient and dominant (you only need to look at Haiti's Voodoo and Jamaica's Rastafarian religions to get an answer to that)? You must provide all types of anthropological data to support this statement or your claim just looks bigoted.

 

And more over, are you really going to use the "Western" model of marriage and family as the end all ultimate example, with our 50+% divorce rates, dead beat, overworked and stressed out parents, child abuse/neglect figures, etc? Something isn't working in the nuclear family ideal, and I wholeheartedly support someone elses' choice to introduce children into their alternative lifestyle as long as the kids are loved, supported and cared for (by however many parents) because at this point, it can only add benefit to a highly flawed model.

 

I guess we atheists are just supposed to roll over and die because the christians/muslims are taking over? Whatever, if for nothing more than just to shove it in the face of the puritanical, narcissistic personalities like those of the religious right and fundamentalist muslims I support all of our rights to raise a family in whatever healthy way we choose.

[Big Rock 173]

Wow...you really have taken this to a whole new level. First, I don't know how you can quantify anything you have said here. I agree that 'many fathers' is not equivalent to one father, but HOW DO YOU KNOW that 'partial attention by many fathers' (whatever that means) is less beneficial than 'full attention by one father' (again, whatever that means) for the children involved? I think that is more your opinion and less any supported fact.

 

Second, cultures in Africa and Asia that 'practice poly' are 'backwards socially, politically...etc'? That is a highly ethnocentric point of view, and coming from someone who 'understands discrimination' I would think you'd know how to use a little more critical analysis. I think you have bought into the lies of American society that our way of life is the best and nothing else can compare. Then you straw man this to basically imply that they are backwards because they are poly...that is quite an implication and judging by that statement it serves to add more evidence to your opinion that only one MOM and one DAD should have kids...no alternatives.

 

Not to further add to the hijack of this post, but if these 'poly' cultures are dying (if that is even happening, I am just placating your claims), is it because they voluntarily want to adopt some western ideology? Or is it because they are being forced to do it? Or is there some other outside influence that is unseen? You can't just assert that because a subservient culture assimilates into its dominant culture that the less powerful culture actually wants to do it. And even if assimilation is successful, does that mean all of that primary culture is discarded? Or do the two cultures combine with aspects of both the subservient and dominant (you only need to look at Haiti's Voodoo and Jamaica's Rastafarian religions to get an answer to that)? You must provide all types of anthropological data to support this statement or your claim just looks bigoted.

 

And more over, are you really going to use the "Western" model of marriage and family as the end all ultimate example, with our 50+% divorce rates, dead beat, overworked and stressed out parents, child abuse/neglect figures, etc? Something isn't working in the nuclear family ideal, and I wholeheartedly support someone elses' choice to introduce children into their alternative lifestyle as long as the kids are loved, supported and cared for (by however many parents) because at this point, it can only add benefit to a highly flawed model.

 

I guess we atheists are just supposed to roll over and die because the christians/muslims are taking over? Whatever, if for nothing more than just to shove it in the face of the puritanical, narcissistic personalities like those of the religious right and fundamentalist muslims I support all of our rights to raise a family in whatever healthy way we choose.

Swing, I'm simply stating my perception of this issue. There is no need to be name calling. Since I happen to have Afro-American ancestors, calling me a bigot is very offensive. I am expressing my opinion and nothing more. I WANT a poly relationship, I just want to make sure it is the right thing to do. There is no anthropological evidence to support the idea that Poly relationships are more stable or that they provide better child care than a nuclear family, and I've looked, extensively. In point of fact , there are dozens of studies to the contrary, that have repeatedly shown that nuclear families provide much better care than most other types of families. I want to be as sure as possible that I'm doing the right thing, before entering into a LTR with my Lady friends. The best for them, for any children that may come, and for myself. That there are good stable Poly families, I'm sure. That there are good , one-parent or Gay/Lesbian families, I'm sure of that too. What I want is the BEST for my kids. I am not entering into this lightly. BTW I too am an athiest, but the rise of fundamentalist religions is a fact, not an opinion.

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

Big Rock, I know I'm always suggesting that you read something, but Sex at Dawn: The Prehistoric Origins of Modern Sexuality by Christopher Ryan, Ph.D. & Cacilda Jethá, M.D. discusses societies in the past and present where poly families are the standard.

 

Here is a description of the book from the website:

"Ryan and Jethá show that our ancestors lived in egalitarian groups that shared food, child care, and often, sexual partners. Weaving together convergent, often overlooked evidence from anthropology, archeology, primatology, anatomy, and psychosexuality, the authors show how far from human nature sexual monogamy really is. They expose the ancient roots of human sexuality while pointing toward a more optimistic future illuminated by our innate capacities for love, cooperation, and generosity.

 

In the tradition of the best historical and scientific writing, SEX AT DAWN unapologetically upends unwarranted assumptions and unfounded conclusions while offering a revolutionary understanding of why we live and love as we do. A controversial, idea-driven book that challenges everything you know about sex, marriage, family, and society."

 

You need to work on thinking about what you say before you type. You make yourself seem xenophobic and uninformed. It is not an endearing quality.

[slevin 1,374]

Swing, I'm simply stating my perception of this issue. There is no need to be name calling. Since I happen to have Afro-American ancestors, calling me a bigot is very offensive. I am expressing my opinion and nothing more.

 

You make a lot of sweeping statements and phrase them as fact. You don't phrase them as opinion. It's a common thread in your posts.

[slevin 1,374]

I think the issue of multiple parents can be either a good thing or a bad thing for kids. If the parents are all dedicated to being parents then I think the kids home life will be great. Just like kids with two great parents. It's all about the parents and whether they are good parents or not. Nothing to do with the number of parents.

 

There might be some challenges when the parents of other kids are involved, but other parents are going to judge you whether you have a 'normal' household or a poly household. There will always be parents who won't let their kids play with your kids for some reason or another. Why define your life, and your families life, by what some unknown random person might, or might not, do?

 

Screw em! Live your life the way you want to, that is my philosophy anyway.

[swing.kidz 367]

Swing, I'm simply stating my perception of this issue. There is no need to be name calling. Since I happen to have Afro-American ancestors, calling me a bigot is very offensive. I am expressing my opinion and nothing more. I WANT a poly relationship, I just want to make sure it is the right thing to do. There is no anthropological evidence to support the idea that Poly relationships are more stable or that they provide better child care than a nuclear family, and I've looked, extensively. In point of fact , there are dozens of studies to the contrary, that have repeatedly shown that nuclear families provide much better care than most other types of families. I want to be as sure as possible that I'm doing the right thing, before entering into a LTR with my Lady friends. The best for them, for any children that may come, and for myself. That there are good stable Poly families, I'm sure. That there are good , one-parent or Gay/Lesbian families, I'm sure of that too. What I want is the BEST for my kids. I am not entering into this lightly. BTW I too am an athiest, but the rise of fundamentalist religions is a fact, not an opinion.

 

Big Rock, I'm glad these are your perceptions and opinions...and you are entitled to them. I am just showing you that if you attempt to pass your opinion off as fact without providing unbiased, empirical, verifiable support and references to that support, it looks presumptuous and bigoted (note, just as before I never called you a bigot, I said your claims with no supporting, unbiased evidence LOOK bigoted...so, I'm sorry you found offense, but please don't get accusatory just because you see a word that is highly overused and contextually slaughtered in today's media).

 

Funcoupledayton has given you a practical place to start mining the data that is actually out there. I have read that book and it is a great meta-analysis of the current biological, anthropological, physiological, sociological, etc research and the authors give us hundreds of references so we can do further research ourselves..as any good survey would.

 

But the big point is that the author's interpretation of REAL data counters your unsubstantiated claims...further, they have many colleagues and respected scholars that have given support for their analyses...so, I challenge you to challenge your world view and give a little more thought to the things you've said. You might be surprised with what you find.

 

ADDITION: And to Slevin's new post, I agree...it is all about the parents, not about the arrangement. Kids will thrive when they're loved, respected and have their needs met, no matter how few or many parents are in their lives.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

The partial attention of many fathers is, in no way, the equivilent of the full attention of one father.

 

Why does the love of several adults, as opposed to one or two, mean that it is partial attention? Love is not a zero sum game. A child can handle all the love those around them can give them. It is not like a child can only receive so much love before too much love becomes detrimental. SO if there are 3, 4 or 5 people willing to love and pay attention to a child, how is that a bad thing? In fact it used to be that way with extended families, where grandparents, and often married siblings, living in the same home and sharing responsibilities.

 

With your reasoning, children would be better off with a single parent so they are not getting partial love from more than one.

 

As for poly and the current society norms, child rearing had nothing to do with that, there were other social pressures - read church - that moved us in that direction. In fact, church doctrine contrary to biblical examples of many wives and many children under the same tent.

 

Now, you can argue how those social pressures improved or detracted from our societies advancement, but that is a discussion for a different thread.

[Alura 2,773]

Why does the love of several adults, as opposed to one or two, mean that it is partial attention?

 

Are we talking about tribalism here? Among my people, everybody took part in raising every child. Love was abundant. Uncles were particularly important in teaching young warriors hunting and self defense. In my case, my uncle even named me. We lost a lot when that "lifestyle" passed into history and I can't see that the kids have improved.

 

Stands Firm with Pony

aka Alura, The Hick Okie

[Big Rock 173]

Big Rock, I know I'm always suggesting that you read something, but Sex at Dawn: The Prehistoric Origins of Modern Sexuality by Christopher Ryan, Ph.D. & Cacilda Jethá, M.D. discusses societies in the past and present where poly families are the standard.

 

Here is a description of the book from the website:

"Ryan and Jethá show that our ancestors lived in egalitarian groups that shared food, child care, and often, sexual partners. Weaving together convergent, often overlooked evidence from anthropology, archeology, primatology, anatomy, and psychosexuality, the authors show how far from human nature sexual monogamy really is. They expose the ancient roots of human sexuality while pointing toward a more optimistic future illuminated by our innate capacities for love, cooperation, and generosity.

 

In the tradition of the best historical and scientific writing, SEX AT DAWN unapologetically upends unwarranted assumptions and unfounded conclusions while offering a revolutionary understanding of why we live and love as we do. A controversial, idea-driven book that challenges everything you know about sex, marriage, family, and society."

 

You need to work on thinking about what you say before you type. You make yourself seem xenophobic and uninformed. It is not an endearing quality.

Thank you very much, FCD. I WILL read this book. I have looked and tried to find anywhere on earth that Poly marriages are , if not the norm, at least accepted. There is a small poly culture in the Himalayas, between Tibet and Nepal. There are Poly cultures in Africa and in Papua/New Guinea. And , of course our own polygamists in the U.S.A. But these were the largest I could find. Islam allows for multiple marriages, but this is rarely practiced, for financial reasons, more than any moral constraints. The one similarity is that ALL of these examples are failing. Every year fewer and fewer practice them. Poly relationships in India and China are almost a thing of the past as are those of North America and South America. My opinion is that just like English is the international language of finance and commerce, the Nuclear family is the standard type of marriage, internationally. Whether this is good or bad, remains to be seen. I have a lot of thinking to do about this issue and really appreciate all of the help you guys are giving me. I know it would be a lot easier to just marry one woman, and have a FWB relationship with the other, but BOTH are really fine women and I care about them a lot, and they do me and would it be fair for me to "choose", one over the other? Especially when I KNOW that the three of us together would make a wonderful, loving, and secure family for kids to grow up in. These are not easy questions and there are no easy answers, but to continue to study and learn.

[Big Rock 173]

I think the issue of multiple parents can be either a good thing or a bad thing for kids. If the parents are all dedicated to being parents then I think the kids home life will be great. Just like kids with two great parents. It's all about the parents and whether they are good parents or not. Nothing to do with the number of parents.

 

There might be some challenges when the parents of other kids are involved, but other parents are going to judge you whether you have a 'normal' household or a poly household. There will always be parents who won't let their kids play with your kids for some reason or another. Why define your life, and your families life, by what some unknown random person might, or might not, do?

 

Screw em! Live your life the way you want to, that is my philosophy anyway.

This is a great post! In the final analysis, it IS all about how good we are as parents, and not about how many of us there are. I'm really nervous about being a father, but I know I will do my best to be a loving, fair and stable one, and I also know that both of my wonderful ladies will make spectacular moms. So...f**k anybody who don't like our lifestyle.

[Big Rock 173]

Are we talking about tribalism here? Among my people, everybody took part in raising every child. Love was abundant. Uncles were particularly important in teaching young warriors hunting and self defense. In my case, my uncle even named me. We lost a lot when that "lifestyle" passed into history and I can't see that the kids have improved.

 

Stands Firm with Pony

aka Alura, The Hick Okie

This was the norm where I was raised too.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

Are we talking about tribalism here?

 

I did not have any particular culture in mind, bu yeah, that is about it. Although I have a bit of Cherokee in me, I was not raised tribal per se, but I had a load of aunts and uncles. In my family there considered just like mom and dad. They loved, taught, disciplined us just like we were theirs.