Sacrificing Swinging for Monogamy

[DarkVoyuer 15]

I have read a thread regarding a single guy who participated in threesomes with single couples. He started to have strong feelings for another woman and decided to end his swinging ways. The thread implied that he gave up swinging in order to preserve his serious relationship with his girlfriend. Do you think he should confess to his girlfriend that he had sex with multiple couples and ask if she would like the idea of swinging? From my understanding, many swingers were applauding his sacrifice in the thread. Suppose an NBA player or musician sacrificed his/her career because they felt it would interfere with their marriage? Should we give that person the same applause? I can see this from two perspectives. One perspective is that he could be applauded for such a sacrifice. Another perspective is that it would also be justified if he decided to break up with this woman because he did not want to sacrifice this sexual freedom. I am very torn about this. What do you think?

[xxxboxy 139]

Relationships based on sacrifices are less than ideal...yet quite common. Ideally he would be honest with his girlfriend about his past exploits, but that in no way means that he can't have a meaningful and complete relationship with his GF without swinging. My wife and I enjoy swinging and we could walk away from it tomorrow and never look back.

[lustylearning 705]

If swinging was just a pastime, why would it be so bad? I've seen swinging couples break up and suddenly stop swinging. Why? They're not seeking "strange" anymore. They're seeking a life partner. The focus changes. If I were in love and in the throws of new relationship energy, I'd probably not be terribly focused on what's new in playland.

[little firefly 64]

In my relationship with my SO I'm monogamous (by choice) while he is a swinger and has been for many years. I'll admit it was a bit difficult being comfortable with him playing with others but it's always been important to me to allow him to be who he is. I do however know without question that if I would tell him that I just don't want him in the lifestyle anymore that he would walk away and never look back. For him swinging is just a recreation, but I am his partner and the love of his life and for him that takes precedence over everything.

[DarkVoyuer 15]

In my relationship with my SO I'm monogamous (by choice) while he is a swinger and has been for many years. I'll admit it was a bit difficult being comfortable with him playing with others but it's always been important to me to allow him to be who he is. I do however know without question that if I would tell him that I just don't want him in the lifestyle anymore that he would walk away and never look back. For him swinging is just a recreation, but I am his partner and the love of his life and for him that takes precedence over everything.

I have heard a story of a husband of a female porn star who finds it sexy to watch her have sex with various men. Your story is somewhat similar to his, although I doubt your husband is a porn star. Although this guy was not 100% monogamous with her, he rarely desires having sex with other women while his wife has sex with several partners. I am curious. Have you ever told your vanilla friends about this. Based on my understanding, you most likely keep this private, but I would not be surprised if they said that you were being weak. I find that assumption ridiculous but it again shows the brutal misconceptions about swinging.

[DarkVoyuer 15]

If swinging was just a pastime, why would it be so bad? I've seen swinging couples break up and suddenly stop swinging. Why? They're not seeking "strange" anymore. They're seeking a life partner. The focus changes. If I were in love and in the throws of new relationship energy, I'd probably not be terribly focused on what's new in playland.

From my understanding, the OP in the thread gave the inference that the guy gave up swinging for convenience. I could see couples who become tired of swinging or lack interest in it and retire. However, I do not think this guy became monogamous because he suddenly lacked the desire for multiple partners. He is doing it probably because he knows or feels his girlfriend will not be able to handle it. Perhaps he would not be able to handle the idea of her having multiple sex partners as well.

 

Secondly, I don't understand why seeking a life partner means you would stop swinging. Based on my understanding, that sounds similar to what vanillas would say. Please correct me if I am wrong, but vanilla's are notorious for stating that you can not be seeking a lifetime partner if you are having sex with other people. Perhaps you use the term lifetime partner in strictly a sexual sense. However, I don't understand how this is seeking. I think this type of monogamy is more of a result of finding variety sex boring rather than finding more quality in monogamy.

 

I would have no problem if monogamy was practiced as being a result rather than some forced ideal which people feel they need to accommodate.

[little firefly 64]

I have heard a story of a husband of a female porn star who finds it sexy to watch her have sex with various men. Your story is somewhat similar to his, although I doubt your husband is a porn star. Although this guy was not 100% monogamous with her, he rarely desires having sex with other women while his wife has sex with several partners. I am curious. Have you ever told your vanilla friends about this. Based on my understanding, you most likely keep this private, but I would not be surprised if they said that you were being weak. I find that assumption ridiculous but it again shows the brutal misconceptions about swinging.

 

I've only told a couple of my vanilla friends about it but I've never been one to discuss my sex life anyway. Their responses were pretty positive though. They admitted that even though it's not something that they would allow, they see me as being really unselfish in allowing him to continue playing in the lifestyle. In all honesty any negative reactions to our unique situation have been from swingers. Although the majority of swingers we've met have been really great and have welcomed me with open arms as a friend, there have been a few that have been quite rude with me because of the fact that I don't play and have accused my SO of using me as a ticket in the club door (nothing could be further from the truth). They just weren't able to grasp the fact that there really are people who are naturally monogamous and have actually told me I was sexually repressed. Although I used to allow people like that to make me feel bad, I've developed a thick skin over it. What they think of me no longer matters. NDN (my SO) and I live our lives how we want and don't feel a need to answer to anyone for it......As for NDN being a porn star, you're right, he's not, but boy would he love to be!! LOL

[lustylearning 705]

It may be that the principle of sexual freedom is so important to you that giving it up for the comfort of another is something you could not tolerate, but I'm sure that feeling is not universal. Decisions regarding sexuality are personal. I don't think there's any right or wrong in the situation you're referencing. Either he made the decision and is comfortable with it or he made the decision and won't be able to stand by it because he wasn't honest enough with himself. Or maybe life will throw in some unpredictable circumstance that will change everything.

 

I haven't read the post you're referring to, so my response is spur of the moment. But it sounds like it's a personal/individual enough situation, I would not weigh in on one side or the other.

[VegasLee 1,486]

I would have no problem if monogamy was practiced as being a result rather than some forced ideal which people feel they need to accommodate.

 

Mr DarkVoyuer,

 

You seem to have a problem with those that don't want to be swingers.

 

I have known couples that went from teenage to death never having sex with anyone but the person they married and where perfectly happy doing so. They did it because it worked for them. Does not make them wrong or write, it was what made them happy.

 

Yes, there are some swingers that feel the need to feel the rest of the world is wrong because they won't have sex with them. Personally, I feel that is nonsense.

 

A person has to do what they feel is right for them. Not for anyone else.

 

Less then 1% of the people in the world are or would be happy being swingers. Most of them could care less who you have sex with or the fact that there are swingers in this world. There is a % of people that feel swingers are the devil and the downfall to the world. Bottom line is, WHO CARES?

 

Why would anyone that wants to be happy let others dictate the direction of their life?

 

I admire as many if not more people that are not swingers. They are happy people that do in life what works for them and they don't care what I or anyone else thinks of it.

 

Not everyone is out to get Swingers or cause them problems. There is a small minority that is very vocal as in most things. Most of the world really does not give a damn about us one way or the other.

[DarkVoyuer 15]

VegasLee said:

Mr DarkVoyuer,

 

You seem to have a problem with those that don't want to be swingers.

Actually I have strong problem with people who are judgmental towards swingers. I also have a problem with the IDEA that people feel compelled to sacrifice their desire for multiple partners for monogamy. However, I have a BIGGER problem with negative stereotypes of swingers. I find them as offensive as stereotypes directed toward blacks, gays, jocks, women and men.

 

Someone who does not want to become a swinger but is not wrongly judgmental about it, I can respect. I have an issue with people who insist that swingers are second rate marriages and use false FACTS to justify it. It is one thing to say you disagree with swinging because it simply is against your religion. However, it is another thing to use falsehoods and over-generalizations as an attempt to prove it. It becomes a moral issue when the media reinforces these generalizations and falsehoods(i.e. most swingers are sex addicts).

 

Why? Because I simply do not believe in being judged incorrectly. Think about it. I am not gay but I find the stereotype that all gays are feminine and flamboyant annoying. Why do I care if I am not gay? It is simple. They are human beings that deserve to be portrayed accurately. I see no reason to apply the same principle to swinging couples. Why should I? I follow the same axiom when it applies to bullshit stereotypes towards strippers, jocks, heavy metal groups, men, women, blacks and yes even white males.

 

I truly must be doing a lousy job in communicating because you are swinger and you think I want to destroy monogamy. Imagine if I presented my thoughts to vanillas. Again, I believe in the respectful portrayals of everyone. My only concern about the guy I was referring to in the OP is that the guy may have been influenced by the false axiom that he is a pig/manwhore if he chooses to have multiple partners. In other words, gentlemen who respect women can only practice monogamy. If this did not weigh into his decision, then I have no problem with him sacrificing for monogamy. I am not sure if this is the case but it could be a possibility.

 

I think you are taking my alleged facts which could be used to prove that monogamy is inferior to swinging too literally. I am simple pointing out the flaws in the argument that monogamy should be revered as a universal MORAL ideal. As a heterosexual person, I am equally harsh towards people who want to promote the idea of heterosexual relationships as being superior to homosexual relationships. Does that mean I have a problem with being a heterosexual? Sure I could decide not to care what they think. However, like some of the propaganda directed toward gays, I find propaganda toward swingers an inaccurate myth. The propaganda which I am referring to is how gays and swingers are portrayed on television.

 

P.S. BTW There a lot of vanillas I hope never enter the world of swinging. They do not have the mindset.

[sexcupid 809]

Since you haven't linked to the thread that inspired you to post this, my comments are only pure speculation:

 

I don't view a single (male or female) that is in the LS any differently than a single on the dating scene. When people are sowing their oats and just out to have fun it is a totally different mindset.

 

If the person in question was in the LS and having sex with multiple people while he is also dating in the vanilla scene (and presumably having sex with the vanilla ladies he was dating), then one of his dates became a more steady/serious relationship...then he probably stepped away from the LS and dating others to focus on the developing relationship.

 

I don't see this as any different than someone exclusively on the vanilla dating scene that stops fucking other people once a relationship becomes serious. Its what most people do...heck, I've done it myself and find myself at a stage where I mostly want my partner to myself rather than to share him, but the option is still on the table and has been since about a year and a half into our relationship. We go to parties as our schedules allow...but pursuing the LS is definitely on the back burner for now.

 

I have to agree with Lee to an extent...in all of your posts you are quite judgemental about those that don't want to open their relationships to multiple sex partners. People have choices, there are plenty of tales around here of people who tried it and didn't like it, were intrigued but didn't want to go through with it, or who tried it/liked it/quit it due to various other reasons.

 

I have read through some of the other threads you've started such as What is the argument against successful swingers? and have to wonder exactly where you are coming from. Are you part of a couple who's wife won't swing? Are you a single guy trying to prove how "with it" you are by trying to show how open-minded and awesome you are? I'm not entirely sure why someone feels so indignant on swingers behalves without having some vested interest in the lifestyle.

[DarkVoyuer 15]

sexcupid said:

I have to agree with Lee to an extent...in all of your posts you are quite judgemental about those that don't want to open their relationships to multiple sex partners. People have choices, there are plenty of tales around here of people who tried it and didn't like it, were intriqued but didn't want to go through with it, or who tried it/liked it/quit it due to various other reasons.

 

I don't see how I am any more judgmental towards those who consider swinging immoral than I am judgmental towards those who find homosexuality immoral. I don't understand how you construe my comments to be the desire to impose swinging on those who want to be monogamous. Please show me where you are getting this perception. Obviously I am doing a pretty lousy job in communicating. Can you please mention some examples of where you have construed that my ulterior motive is to force people to be swingers? I am not being rhetorical. I really want to know where you are coming from. If you are a swinger and think I want to impose swinging on vanilla/monogamous couples, I can not imagine what vanilla people would think if they saw my posts. Please tell me where implicitly or explicitly I can change my communication style, so it can perceived that I am arguing for the equality of swinging rather than the superiority of swinging.

 

 

Quote

I have read through some of the other threads you've started such as What is the argument against successful swingers? and have to wonder exactly where you are coming from. Are you part of a couple who's wife won't swing? Are you a single guy trying to prove how "with it" you are by trying to show how open-minded and awesome you are? I'm not entirely sure why someone feels so indignant on swingers behalves without having some vested interest in the lifestyle.

Honestly, I do not have a burning interest in joining the lifestyle. I am straight heterosexual male who has defended gays and swingers. What I don't understand is why you find it strange for a non-swinger to defend swingers as moral equals? I am not homosexual but I vehemently defend gay rights. I am not gay

 

Why does it more sense to you that only swingers defend their lifestyle? It's not a rhetorical question. It's a question that I am seriously curious about. I don't understand why this is important. I adamantly defend gay rights but I am straight. Perhaps I am missing something. Perhaps I am overestimating how many swingers feel they are viewed worse then gays. However, I just talked to a guy on this board who gets pretty annoyed by the negative perception of swingers by our society. Perhaps you are like Lee and could care less about these stereotypes. But some swingers find these stereotypes offensive. I am really surprised at some of the remarks here. I would expect these types of remarks from arch conservative vanillas. Hopefully, some feed back will help me communicate my message as being a defender of swingers and not an opponent of the practice of monogamy.

 

P.S. If I was an opponent of monogamy, I would claim that monogamy has a lower level of commitment than swinging. Mainstream society has greater tendency to say that swingers are NOT committed. I do believe that the idea of monogamous marriages and swinging marriages contain equal commitment. It is not the practice of monogamy that I am indignant of. I am indignant of the promotion of it as being part of absolute sexual morality instead of a sexual preference. I hope this clears up some misunderstanding.

 

P.S. People who do not belong in the swinging lifestyle will only harm the image of the lifestyle. Trust me, I agree with the swinger sentiment that monogamous natured individuals have no business swinging.

[sexcupid 809]

I don't see how I am any more judgmental towards those who consider swinging immoral than I am judgmental towards those who find homosexuality immoral.

 

Two entirely different topics. You are dealing with people's belief systems. You can't force what you would like them to believe anymore than they can force you to believe what they do.

 

I don't understand how you construe my comments to be the desire to impose swinging on those who want to be monogamous. Please show me where you are getting this perception. Can you please mention some examples of where you have construed that my ulterior motive is to force people to be swingers?

 

Basically your other thread seems to advocate that monogamy in long term marriages should be disregarded and that there might be something wrong with people that never consider swinging. Or in this thread, that someone would sit aside their sexual freedom to become monogamous.

 

On the surface it appears that you are being judgmental about someone's personal choice about their sex life and relationship. Could someone just as easily choose to keep doing what they want? Certainly, but like any other choice, many people weigh the pros and cons. If someone is in the position of deciding whether or not to keep dating around or committing to themselves to another person (which usually involves the cessation of sex with others), I'm sure that is one of the things they take into consideration.

 

Please tell me where implicitly or explicitly I can change my communication style, so it can perceived that I am arguing for the equality of swinging rather than the superiority of swinging.

 

I'm not sure how to tell you to improve your style...just that like many swingers, what goes on in my bedroom is no one else's business other than mine (and my SO of course). Ironically enough, many vanillas feel that way as well.

 

 

I adamantly defend gay rights but I am straight. Perhaps I am missing something. Perhaps I am overestimating how many swingers feel they are viewed worse then gays.

 

I don't feel that gay rights and swinger stereotypes even belong in the same ballpark; one is concerned with making sure they are allowed all the rights and privileges that heterosexuals enjoy (marriage, adoption, insurance benefits, etc).

 

I would expect these types of remarks from arch conservative vanillas. Hopefully, some feed back will help me communicate my message as being a defender of swingers and not an opponent of the practice of monogamy.

 

And here we go with another assumption...swingers come in all varieties of race, religion, body type, and political view. Of course, politic talk is a verboten topic on the board. Just be assured that my sweetie is quite conservative in his politics (while I am much less so), but is quite liberal where his bedroom activities and beliefs are concerned.

 

The thing is, I don't put much stock in stereotypes...they exist in all facets of life...I mean, honestly...without you having initiated a conversation about swinging...how often has it actually occurred in everyday life? I can only think of 1 or 2 times outside of talking with my significant others in the past and it was in groups of friends that were quite open in their sexual attitudes.

 

Back to the stereotypes: I don't believe all of them in regards to any aspect of life...I try to educate myself on things I don't understand and am confident in my knowledge when I hear stereotypes that I "know better" about (such as all swingers are sex addicts or must have something "wrong with them"). People fear what they don't understand. It doesn't mean that swingers don't care...they just want to be left alone to live their lives.

 

It just feels like you are trying to drum up righteous indignation at the poor treatment of swingers when most people that are responding to your queries are taking the live and let live attitude (which seems to shock you). While I haven't been out to the general public in the way that Lee has, my sister (and probably her hubby) and a few friends know what we do when we go to parties or out with "friends". Is everyone aware, no...because it is none of their business.

[AskMeOk 148]

Mr DarkVoyuer,

 

I have known couples that went from teenage to death never having sex with anyone but the person they married and where perfectly happy doing so. They did it because it worked for them. Does not make them wrong or write, it was what made them happy.

 

While I agree with the rest of your post, I'd have to note that these folks didn't know if they were happy or not.

 

This is the same sort of argument that you have with your children; trying to get them to try a new food. They hate it until they actually try it, then they may have found a new favorite... or, maybe they really know they hate it.... bottom line is.... they know.

 

These folks weren't "happy" they just didn't know anything different.

[lustylearning 705]

Suppose an NBA player or musician sacrificed his/her career because they felt it would interfere with their marriage? Should we give that person the same applause? I can see this from two perspectives. One perspective is that he could be applauded for such a sacrifice. Another perspective is that it would also be justified if he decided to break up with this woman because he did not want to sacrifice this sexual freedom. I am very torn about this. What do you think?

 

I think, and this may be why people are confused by your thread, it doesn't matter what we think. There is nothing to defend. There is nothing to applaud. There is nothing to be "torn about," because it's an individual decision.

[little firefly 64]

While I agree with the rest of your post, I'd have to note that these folks didn't know if they were happy or not.

 

This is the same sort of argument that you have with your children; trying to get them to try a new food. They hate it until they actually try it, then they may have found a new favorite... or, maybe they really know they hate it.... bottom line is.... they know.

 

These folks weren't "happy" they just didn't know anything different.

 

I don't agree with this at all. Comparing children trying new food to peoples feelings about their sexuality and who they choose to share it with are two completely different things. While NDN enjoys being able to please and be pleased by other women, I'm very happy having only his touch. I have no sexual desire to do so with anyone else and there's not one thing wrong with that. I'm happy being with only him and I defy anyone who tells me I'm not.....Even though to be honest, their opinion doesn't really matter to me. It's my choice and my feelings. No one has a right to tell me I'm not happy in my choice any more than I have no right to tell swingers they are wrong in theirs.

[VegasLee 1,486]

These folks weren't "happy" they just didn't know anything different.

 

Sorry, but your argument on this one won't stand up with me.

 

So your telling me since some people are happy fucking cows I can not be happy until I try fucking a cow?

 

If that was the case you would be able to apply it to everything in life, if you did not do everything then you are not happy.

[AskMeOk 148]

Sorry, but your argument on this one won't stand up with me.

 

So your telling me since some people are happy fucking cows I can not be happy until I try fucking a cow?

 

If you think that sort of thing might appeal to you, maybe you should try it! IOW, don't knock it 'till you try it...

 

 

If that was the case you would be able to apply it to everything in life, if you did not do everything then you are not happy.

 

You CAN apply it to everything in life. What we are talking about here is "experience." Some things I can learn from other folk's experience: In instances of physical danger, I'll take your word that the stove is hot.....

 

If you've never had sex with but one person, you don't know if it is good or not, you just know that is the way it has always been.

 

Being the fly in the vinegar jar doesn't make you happy, it just says you've never found anything better.

[AskMeOk 148]

I don't agree with this at all. Comparing children trying new food to peoples feelings about their sexuality and who they choose to share it with are two completely different things. While NDN enjoys being able to please and be pleased by other women, I'm very happy having only his touch. I have no sexual desire to do so with anyone else and there's not one thing wrong with that. I'm happy being with only him and I defy anyone who tells me I'm not.....Even though to be honest, their opinion doesn't really matter to me. It's my choice and my feelings. No one has a right to tell me I'm not happy in my choice any more than I have no right to tell swingers they are wrong in theirs.

 

I don't think there is any further usefulness to be gained in (re)debating your own personal choices. You continue to respond as if posters are speaking directly to or about you. I was not.

 

I still say that there is an energy exchange at a swing club. There are takers, givers, and those that manage to take and give about the same. You've made your choice and I voiced my opinion. Let's just leave it where it was. I have no interest in debating your personal life.

[little firefly 64]

I don't think there is any further usefulness to be gained in (re)debating your own personal choices. You continue to respond as if posters are speaking directly to or about you. I was not.

 

I still say that there is an energy exchange at a swing club. There are takers, givers, and those that manage to take and give about the same. You've made your choice and I voiced my opinion. Let's just leave it where it was. I have no interest in debating your personal life.

 

I'm not responding as if I think posters are speaking directly to me and I don't think that they are (I'm not stupid). I'm just using my own life as an example.

 

I have no interest in debating my personal life either. If you are happy as a swinger then good for you for doing what makes your life more fulfilling. I'm happy being monogamous and my life is very fulfilling as such and that's all that counts.

[VegasLee 1,486]

AskMeOk said:

If you've never had sex with but one person, you don't know if it is good or not, you just know that is the way it has always been.

 

I would know if it good to me. Something can be good without being the best or different.

 

Still don't believe a person can not be happy if they don't try other things. Just means they are happy with what they have. Nothing wrong with that.

[magnum 78]

I have read a thread regarding a single guy who participated in threesomes with single couples. He started to have strong feelings for another woman and decided to end his swinging ways. The thread implied that he gave up swinging in order to preserve his serious relationship with his girlfriend. Do you think he should confess to his girlfriend that he had sex with multiple couples and ask if she would like the idea of swinging? From my understanding, many swingers were applauding his sacrifice in the thread. Suppose an NBA player or musician sacrificed his/her career because they felt it would interfere with their marriage? Should we give that person the same applause? I can see this from two perspectives. One perspective is that he could be applauded for such a sacrifice. Another perspective is that it would also be justified if he decided to break up with this woman because he did not want to sacrifice this sexual freedom. I am very torn about this. What do you think?

 

Good for him...I would say it depends on his GF, if she is "very" open minded, he should tell her, if not so open minded and she really likes him and vis versa, I would say do not tell her about his past swinging LS. I told an old GF that I was in the LS, she did not really care, we stayed together for about a year.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

I also have a problem with the IDEA that people feel compelled to sacrifice their desire for multiple partners for monogamy.

 

I am happily married for over 20 years. I would "sacrifice" the lifestyle in a heart beat for my wife if that is what she wanted. Love is about many things, one of which is not being selfish, putting the one you love before yourself. My wife would "allow" me to keep swinging even if she did not want me to, because she loves me. But, if I knew she didn't want me to, then I would stop.

 

Sacrifice, as you term it, for the person you love is not a bad thing.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

While I agree with the rest of your post, I'd have to note that these folks didn't know if they were happy or not.

 

This is the same sort of argument that you have with your children; trying to get them to try a new food. They hate it until they actually try it, then they may have found a new favorite... or, maybe they really know they hate it.... bottom line is.... they know.

 

These folks weren't "happy" they just didn't know anything different.

 

Lol, that argument is ludicrous. By that standard, you are not happy and no one in the world is either. We couldn't possibly try everything there is to try in this world.

 

I have met people that have lived some pretty deprived lives, in the sense, they don't have enough food, have major medical issues, live in extreme poverty, but they are truly happy. They will never be able to experience many of the things that I have. But they don't have to in order to be happy. Happiness comes from within, it is a state of mind. Some people can be happy with very little, others are never happy, no matter what they have. People get to choose what makes them happy.

 

In another post, you respond to the assertion about having sex with cows by saying "if that sort of thing appeals to you." Same difference, if swinging does not appeal to someone, then they certainly can be happy without trying it.

 

There are millions of things I have never tried and never will, and I am as happy as a lark.