The real reason the other couple doesn't want to play again

[The Fuse 1,012]

I started to post this in the "Do you play with single males?" thread, and then realized it was about something else.

 

There's plenty of discussion on this board about whether to tell another couple the reason why you don't want to play with them again. Most people come down on the side of no, in most cases it's not something they do. However, this thread is about the REAL reason. We've found out later at least twice that the real reason we aren't playing again with a couple we enjoyed is not the reason we assumed, or even the reason they told us. In both cases, the real reason was enlightening and provided opportunities for growth. This post is about one of those.

 

I'm not asking for advice in this thread. I am curious whether others have similar stories to share.

 

We have an ongoing thing right now with a single male. He was half of a couple that we liked very much. We were only with them once, and then had a non-sexual friendship with them for a year, until their relationship hit the rocks. We are really bummed that they broke up. She is living a long way away now, so we don't see her, and we're not in touch. But we still both enjoy hanging out with him a lot. He got back in touch with us after they dropped out for a while. We had watched the changes on their profile with dismay, and were sad to think we might not get to see them anymore. Mr. Fuse is more friends with him than I am, which is a situation I cherish because he tends to not have many friends on his own.

 

It was an unusual situation. We liked this couple very much. After our initial play date, they told us she didn't feel the chemistry with Mr. Fuse, but they enjoyed our company a lot and wanted to be friends. We felt the same way about being friends, although we were very disappointed not to be playing. Especially Mr. Fuse, because he is very sensitive about being rejected, and being a guy and less outgoing, it tends to happen more often to him than to me.

 

Fast forward to after their breakup. The guy told Mr. Fuse that the real reason we weren't playing anymore was that his former girlfriend tended to be fine with swinging as long as he wasn't having "too" good a time with his play partner, and she was jealous of me. We don't have any reason to think he was lying. Certainly he had no reason to flatter me, since he knew I liked him. This was a real shock on many levels. We had had a very good time, especially for a first play date, but I didn't think it rose to the level where anyone would really bat an eye. And this woman is a goddess on earth. I could have sworn she walked out of a Botticelli panting. And she is very, very sexual. They had been together several years and seemed very secure.

 

So now, we have seen him several times in the last few months. Until the last two times we saw him, there was no play. I've gotten to play with him twice. Everyone wishes he had a girlfriend, but until and unless that happens, Mr. Fuse has been pretty generous about letting me play with him, even though he isn't "getting" anything out of it. I happen to think he should be happy about it because it makes me happy, but he hasn't quite adopted that mindset yet. It's something we're working on.

 

This is a long-winded way of sharing our "the real reason" story. Anyone else have a story to share about "the real reason" you didn't play with another couple a second time, or the real reason another couple didn't play with you?

[socolais 696]

I think "the real reason" comes in so many flavors and potentially has so many layers that there is no such thing as "the real reason". This revelation comes to you second-hand and you'll probably never know if that's the complete story. Any "no" is just as good as any other - and that's all it takes. I know the few times I've said "no" to a lady, there have been several reasons.

 

The insecurity about our spouse having too much fun is common among beginner swingers - or at least there is a caution about having too much fun with a playmate. Perhaps some couples take longer to get past that hurdle than others. I know my wife and I were cautious in the beginning, but I don't recall it ever being a "reason" we chose to not play with someone. There was one couple my wife vetoed and this thought could be arranged to fit that situation, at least on the surface level - but that's water under the bridge now.

[VegasLee 1,486]

Just wondering, but if the tables were turned and he was playing with a goddess and you weren't getting anything, would you feel that you should be happy about it because it makes him happy?

 

 

No answering for The Fuse but for myself.

 

Me being the male part of a couple that is the case with me very much so. Laura gets way more offers and play time then I do. She is the women, that is how it works. We don't tend to play with couples. We each play with who we want to play with.

 

I am always very happy when she finds someone she wants to play with and I have never looked at it that I am getting nothing out of it. Her being excited and happy gives me a great deal out of it.

 

Just my view. Works for me.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,024]

We have reconciled ourselves to the idea that we will almost never know the real reason and, in most cases, will probably be better off not knowing. But we did, on one notable occasion, learn though a third party that our invitations were being answered with "we think we'll be washing the car that weekend" owing to the fact that "she" had developed the belief that JoAnn was "making a play" for "her man".

[lustylearning 705]

We've never asked. If we didn't get the green light, we moved on. I know that for us, we used to play more, but the four-way match thing has gotten to be a bigger hurdle.

 

On a side note, regarding insecurity, my husband is lucky, because there aren't many women who go on my personal "no" list for him. His "no" list for me is longer, but I accept it. We chose to do this for "us," not me. It's something I could and have bitched about, but it hasn't done me much good:D Just like a newbie, I say to myself, "we can only proceed at the pace of the slowest partner..." But what the heck? It's just a hobby:)

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

 

I think "the real reason" comes in so many flavors and potentially has so many layers that there is no such thing as "the real reason". This revelation comes to you second-hand and you'll probably never know if that's the complete story. Any "no" is just as good as any other - and that's all it takes. I know the few times I've said "no" to a lady, there have been several reasons.

Very well said, socolais.

 

Not once have we rejected a couple for a single reason. There have always been a number of reasons why we discontinue playing with a couple. I have my reasons, MrLM has his. Together the decision is made.

 

We don't say what those reasons are, and we wouldn't want to know why a couple isn't interested in continuing with us.

 

When a couple has broken up, as in this case, I can see why a reason would be given that could encourage the play to resume as a single with a couple, or as solo play.

 

LM

[Chicup 41]

I think its rare you ever learn the real reason.

 

Even when they tell you "it".

[Newpants 21]

Anyone else have a story to share about "the real reason" you didn't play with another couple a second time, or the real reason another couple didn't play with you?

 

I can see the logic behind not wanting to hear the real reason someone didn't want to play with us, but doggone it, it's also just one of those things that I would really like to hear some time. Sometimes it can be something that would be simple and easy to fix. Other times it is something completely out of my control but either way I'd like to find out sometime.

 

The reason I say it could be something simple and easy to fix is one time we invited a very nice and attractive couple back to our hotel room and I thought a good time was had by all. The next day my wife said his breath was so bad she thought she was going to barf. By the time she got close enough to notice his breaht all the clothes were off and things were already happening and she didn't want to make a scene or flake out in the middle of play.

 

They tried on several other occasions to get together with us but Mrs New always declined. Part of me wanted to tell him to brush his teeth better and pop in some Mentos and try again but Mrs New was too embarassed and didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings and so a perfectly nice couple was left behind.

 

It's reason's like that that I wish people would be a little more honest about. There are many things about myself that I can either not change or wouldn't want to change that turn people off but there are probably other things that I can accomidate and improve upon.

 

sometimes feedback and a little constructive criticism can be good things. And I s'pose there are a lot of other times that people counterattack and throw gas on the fire and so noone wants to say anything.

[gatorvol64 216]

"I happen to think he should be happy about it because it makes me happy, but he hasn't quite adopted that mindset yet. It's something we're working on."

 

Just wondering, but if the tables were turned and he was playing with a goddess and you weren't getting anything, would you feel that you should be happy about it because it makes him happy?

 

I cant' speak for Fuse either, however, swinging in our minds isn't a scorecard really. It's true we never played separately until we met the couple we are in a poly relationship with, but, even so...each encounter is just different. And no matter the configuration of play partners...MFM, FMF, MFMF...how can each person really "get" the same as the other every time. But no matter. We started swinging for fun and to see the other happy. It wasn't me wanting to see him happy only if I was happy (and vise versa). It's just to see each other happy.

 

Vol

[The Fuse 1,012]

"I happen to think he should be happy about it because it makes me happy, but he hasn't quite adopted that mindset yet. It's something we're working on."

 

Just wondering, but if the tables were turned and he was playing with a goddess and you weren't getting anything, would you feel that you should be happy about it because it makes him happy?

 

I would definitely be happy about it. I actually spend time and energy trying to facilitate him hooking with women he likes, who are either not part of a couple, or who play alone frequently.

 

The times he's been able to play alone, I have been basically cheering on the sidelines. He feels validated. That makes him happier and therefore me happier.

[The Fuse 1,012]

I can see the logic behind not wanting to hear the real reason someone didn't want to play with us, but doggone it, it's also just one of those things that I would really like to hear some time. Sometimes it can be something that would be simple and easy to fix. Other times it is something completely out of my control but either way I'd like to find out sometime.

 

The reason I say it could be something simple and easy to fix is one time we invited a very nice and attractive couple back to our hotel room and I thought a good time was had by all. The next day my wife said his breath was so bad she thought she was going to barf. By the time she got close enough to notice his breaht all the clothes were off and things were already happening and she didn't want to make a scene or flake out in the middle of play.

 

They tried on several other occasions to get together with us but Mrs New always declined. Part of me wanted to tell him to brush his teeth better and pop in some Mentos and try again but Mrs New was too embarassed and didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings and so a perfectly nice couple was left behind.

 

It's reason's like that that I wish people would be a little more honest about. There are many things about myself that I can either not change or wouldn't want to change that turn people off but there are probably other things that I can accomidate and improve upon.

 

sometimes feedback and a little constructive criticism can be good things. And I s'pose there are a lot of other times that people counterattack and throw gas on the fire and so noone wants to say anything.

 

That brings me to the other time we got the real story after we assumed something else. This is embarrassing, but the guy half of a couple thought I had too strong a smell on my "lady parts", and wouldn't play after that. I was clean (of course I was clean, I had showered and washed probably a few hours before), but I tend to have an actual "woman" aroma there, unlike his wife and a few of the other ladies we've known, who seem to have no smell at all. Something like that is easy to fix with a baby wipe in the bathroom after arriving at their place, before play.

 

We had assumed a different reason. The guy's wife and Mr. Fuse had become close, and the guy had also suffered a big career setback. We figured he felt diminished and threatened. But I went out to lunch with her a few weeks afterward (I really liked her too), and she told me the real reason.

 

Okay, it was an awful thing to hear. I'd never heard that from anyone before, husband or playmates. We've been swinging for four years and have had several longer-term playmate relationships, and no one ever expressed any thoughts to the effect that there was an issue in that area. But.... if one guy thought it, how many others were turned off and never said anything? So, after feeling horribly embarrassed, I used it as an opportunity to improve.

 

I know it's not fun to tell someone you think their hygiene is bad. Believe me, it's not nice to hear, either! But now that I know one partner was bothered by my natural smell, I am really really meticulous about not only being clean, but using wipes shortly before play. I'm also taking a probiotic that is marketed to diminish feminine odor.

 

The thing is, they did me a huge favor by telling me. Now going forward I am different and better because of it. But... that didn't help Mr. Fuse and the lady, who both really wanted to be together again. The couple moved away shortly afterwards. I felt horrible, because there are so many times Mr. Fuse doesn't "get the girl", and this time the problem was me. I know it won't happen again, though, at least not in that way!

[The Fuse 1,012]

I think "the real reason" comes in so many flavors and potentially has so many layers that there is no such thing as "the real reason". This revelation comes to you second-hand and you'll probably never know if that's the complete story. Any "no" is just as good as any other - and that's all it takes. I know the few times I've said "no" to a lady, there have been several reasons.

I'll gently disagree with this. The story we got wasn't second-hand, it was from half of the couple. They had discussed the situation between the two of them more than once. I consider that firsthand, especially since I trust his judgment and interpretation.

 

And I also don't think any no is as good as another. I think it was Ben Franklin who said something to the effect of 'our critics are our friends, for they inform us of our weaknesses'. I wouldn't want to know the real reason every time, or share the real reason, because most often it's the obvious -- someone didn't have a good time, someone just doesn't feel attracted anymore, someone likes a different body type, personalities don't mesh, etc.

 

But if there is something we're doing wrong, or that we can improve, we feel better off if we are informed. It's up to us all whether we want to share those reasons.

 

I should add, we've never asked a couple directly why they don't want to play anymore. If someone wants to volunteer the information, that's up to them; we'd never ask outright or even obliquely. The times we've been told, it's because we had a real friendship, or the beginnings of one... the type where we really talk to each other.

[AskMeOk 148]

Most people will never *really* know.....

 

I think, maybe, you got an honest "why." That was enough to indicate they wouldn't make it and such was underscored by their separation...

 

If you and the wife are ok doing him, do it.... otherwise, let it go.

 

Jealousy is SUCH a buzz kill and it was good that you were spared that drama. Consider yourself lucky.....

[socolais 696]

I'll gently disagree with this.

Your tact is impressive. I think I made some assumptions that didn't pan out. Yes, when we can use the new information to make a trivial change and it results in things generally being better, that's a smart move.

 

 

It is interesting that you mention 'taste'. I've declined a repeat opportinity with a lady and I guess the most significant reason was her 'taste' - not really objectionable, just not my preference. I wonder if things might have turned out differently if I had gently mentioned something about it. She had no shortage of playmates at the party, so perhaps this broadly falls under "chemistry" compatability.

[slevin 1,374]

I just mentioned this story in another thread, but thought it kind of fit your topic here:

 

We played with a couple a few times and always had a great time. We thought they were both having a great time as well and we all got along really well. The other woman flirted with me a lot, showed me a lot of attention during playtimes. We even met up a few times socially and had fun together.

 

Then suddenly they didn't want to play anymore. Said something about an issue between them, nothing to do with us. No big deal for us, we were happy to pause or stop if they needed to sort things out between them. We kept hanging out socially as they were great people and we got along well with them. It was all great until the other woman approached my wife and wanted to me her to play 1:1 behind my back and behind her husbands back. That was the end of it for us; we pulled back from them altogether. I guess that qualifies as finding out the real reason later on.

 

Not that we knew for sure; we just inferred that she was in this really to play with women and not to enjoy swinging.

[Trace Ekies 186]

Hey Fuse...

 

Let the guy who doesn't like a woman's smell know that I'm gonna punch him in the nose for making you feel like you need to wipe with a baby wipe just prior to play...I love a woman's smell and I hate the smell of baby wipes...

 

To your comments...we're not sure if we've ever gotten the truth or if we really want to...some things need to be said but can be so hurtful no matter how well they're delivered that we'd prefer not to hear or have to say.

 

I'd hate like hell to tell someone something about themselves that is MY perference and have them change what they do. If you must wipe...do it for the wipe guy...

 

As for me...wash it once a day and let me at it...

 

I must admit that your thoughtfulness is very attractive though.

 

Trace

[Newpants 21]

 

And I also don't think any no is as good as another. I think it was Ben Franklin who said something to the effect of 'our critics are our friends, for they inform us of our weaknesses'. I wouldn't want to know the real reason every time, or share the real reason, because most often it's the obvious -- someone didn't have a good time, someone just doesn't feel attracted anymore, someone likes a different body type, personalities don't mesh, etc.

 

But if there is something we're doing wrong, or that we can improve, we feel better off if we are informed.

 

This is why I think this is an interesting topic and I was hoping more people would share their experiences. In many other areas in life such as business, science, engineering, medicine etc etc people study the failures in order to find ways for improvement. In the business world it's called quality improvement and much of it is looking at the processes and practices that lead to the failure or to the breakdown. Why should swinging be any different?

 

I know the politically correct company line is to chant, "do not give or ask for a reason....," but in so doing aren't we just perpetuating what lead to the rejection in the first place?

 

If we can't look back and evaluate and critique ourselves aren't we just going to do the same things over and over?

 

Now before y'all start jumping up and down - I GET IT. I realize we can't all just start doing questionaires and surveys on all our old playmates but on a conceptual basis, don't you think we are cheating ourselves a bit by not looking a little deeper into what went wrong????????

 

I think the Fuse is on to something here and IMHO even though it might be a little uncomfortable and embarrasing to talk about the specifics of why you dumped someone or why you dumped someone else can lend some valuable information. It's not going to cure the world of rejection by any means but maybe it can provide some wake up calls and some food for thought.

[slevin 1,374]

I think the Fuse is on to something here and IMHO even though it might be a little uncomfortable and embarrasing to talk about the specifics of why you dumped someone or why you dumped someone else can lend some valuable information. It's not going to cure the world of rejection by any means but maybe it can provide some wake up calls and some food for thought.

 

I think you will get very few honest answers. Not just because people want to be polite, but also because a lot of people don't consciously know exactly why they didn't want to pursue you. Often something that normally wouldn't be a big deal is looked at as the reason because another hard to describe thing is under the surface.

 

Not to say you'll never get the real answer, I just don't think it'll happen too often.

 

Now, sitting down with your wife and reviewing what happened is a great thing. This is the area that will likely benefit you the most. Rather than looking at the other couples actions, take a look at your own actions to see if there is something you could try differently. Were you too forward, too shy, tired etc. etc. Things like a womans aroma, I'd say screw that guy. I completely agree that the wipes should be reserved for that individual. Many men love the sexy feminine aroma; it can be a serious turn on and I think I'd be a bit confused about smelling wipes. This is a good example though; even knowing the reason it's not really something to bother with (except for that one guy). Whereas if TheFuse sat down and looked at whether they could do something differently in their actions.

 

I think I started rambling there, so I'll stop. Trace already made the last part of my point and was far more smooth with the delivery than me

[The Fuse 1,012]

This is why I think this is an interesting topic and I was hoping more people would share their experiences. In many other areas in life such as business, science, engineering, medicine etc etc people study the failures in order to find ways for improvement. In the business world it's called quality improvement and much of it is looking at the processes and practices that lead to the failure or to the breakdown. Why should swinging be any different?

 

I know the politically correct company line is to chant, "do not give or ask for a reason....," but in so doing aren't we just perpetuating what lead to the rejection in the first place?

 

If we can't look back and evaluate and critique ourselves aren't we just going to do the same things over and over?

 

Now before y'all start jumping up and down - I GET IT. I realize we can't all just start doing questionaires and surveys on all our old playmates but on a conceptual basis, don't you think we are cheating ourselves a bit by not looking a little deeper into what went wrong????????

 

I think the Fuse is on to something here and IMHO even though it might be a little uncomfortable and embarrasing to talk about the specifics of why you dumped someone or why you dumped someone else can lend some valuable information. It's not going to cure the world of rejection by any means but maybe it can provide some wake up calls and some food for thought.

 

I actually think that most of the time, the right call is not to volunteer the information about why you decided not to see another couple. Conversely, most of the time it would not be cool to ask another couple why they stopped seeing you. This is because much of the time, it's about a lack of attraction. Not much you can do about that, so there's not much use in being told.

 

But in those cases where we do find out, sometimes it's a surprise. Sometimes it's pleasant, sometimes not. But it's sometimes at least interesting. We had two interesting cases and thought others might have some they'd like to share.

 

At least twice, we wondered why we couldn't see another couple again, and then eventually found out they split up. In those cases it becomes obvious it wasn't something we could have done better. We've also found out that someone got ill and needed a long recuperation time, or they got deployed, etc. etc.

 

Now, if someone isn't wanting to be with us because one of us chews gum, or was too loud in bed, or something that can be modified easily, we would prefer knowing that so we could accommodate, if that was the only thing wrong. But we wouldn't consider ourselves entitled to know.

[Chicup 41]

Well even attractiveness can be altered to an extent.

 

I'd very much like to know, but that goes with any reaction in life. You don't know peoples true motives.

[sweet_tna 680]

I guess we've been lucky in that we haven't had to concern ourselves with why a couple stopped playing with us. In the few cases it has happened, it's been because of a rather obvious situation (the couple splits up, or has a family issue that takes them out of the lifestyle, etc.).

 

Yes, there is a part of me that would like to know if it weren't a "obvious reason", especially if it were something minor and easily changed. But the likelihood of us getting such a reason in that case isn't the greatest.

 

I'm glad these situations worked out in such a way that you found the information helpful.

[Swing*8701 887]

Susan here-- Just me being me. I know that if the facts do not make sense, I'm missing a key piece of information. Now, the only reason you know that it was a odor/taste concern is from the wife. She only knows it because her husband said so. The husband may or may not be being honest with his own wife.

 

The fact is you're original thoughts may be correct, the answer given by the wife may be correct. You'll never know for certain. Facts all come with a point of view.

 

That being said. Did you Play with his his wife ? Did she go down on you and in your lunch voice the same concern ? Seems if one felt that way, both would. Ultimately, the result, not the reasons are all that is relevant.

[The Fuse 1,012]

Susan here-- Just me being me. I know that if the facts do not make sense, I'm missing a key piece of information. Now, the only reason you know that it was a odor/taste concern is from the wife. She only knows it because her husband said so. The husband may or may not be being honest with his own wife.

 

The fact is you're original thoughts may be correct, the answer given by the wife may be correct. You'll never know for certain. Facts all come with a point of view.

 

That being said. Did you Play with his his wife ? Did she go down on you and in your lunch voice the same concern ? Seems if one felt that way, both would. Ultimately, the result, not the reasons are all that is relevant.

Hi Susan. Thanks for the thoughtful response. Yes, his wife and I played. That's how I know firsthand that she has almost no discernable smell or taste, and that's what her husband is used to. Two other things about them is that they were not that experienced, meaning that they hadn't been with more than a few other couples. She said he also had an issue with a prior playmate's smell and taste. To answer your other question, she said she noticed I had an aroma but it didn't bother her. Who knows whether she was just being nice.

 

You're right, I may never know the whole truth. I think it was at least partly true. I am glad they said something in this case, because I think I'm better off for it.

[Powerglide 235]

Well even attractiveness can be altered to an extent.

 

I'd very much like to know, but that goes with any reaction in life. You don't know peoples true motives.

 

Well, heck, half the time we don't even know our own true motives. The heart has reasons the mind does not know.

[Swing*8701 887]

Susan here--Thanks for the kind words. And just so you know, hell, I'd do ya !!

[Lascivious L&L 866]

Me, I'm in the I'd rather know crowd. I'd rather know even the not completely honest and even the completely dishonest reasons, because it all gives insight into the person.

 

My own experiences have been often around appearance issues. I'm the man and I used to have long hair. In days gone by that was often a no for some women. I have a beard, another no for some. No longer do I have long hair, but I'm bald, another no for some.

 

As a couple we had an experience with another couple that stunned us. They came to our house for a meeting, all went very well. We suggested the hot tub as a way to ease into nudity and then hopefully...

 

She had been covered neck to toe. When her clothes came off, she revealed the most amazingly ugly skin I've ever witnessed. It was completely baggy, hanging, as if she'd been starved and lost 100 or more pounds. More, it looked like elephant skin, cragy. She looked very unhealthy. We were totally unprepared and shocked. Neither of us have ever seen such a thing before or since. Both of us were at a total loss for words. I don't even remember what happened after, but I know that no sex happened. It was the first time in my life I could say I would not have been able to have sex with a woman I liked.

 

I both feel bad and don't. If we had been in some way prepared by the couple for her skin, we might not have been so shocked. But not a word of explanation was uttered and we have never been so at a loss for what to do. We've met some strange people, but nothing has been even close the shock of her dropping her clothes.