How to be more open and confident with my sexuality?

[Mr.GeekChic 27]

Hello all,

 

I'm a straight male in my mid-20s and I could use some advice. This is gonna be pretty long, but please stick with me because I really would appreciate some help. I feel like I have to give enough background for people to really understand what's going on.

 

When I was 13, I began to explore my own sexuality. It felt very exciting and liberating. I also had a strong non-mainstream bent to me, so I was very comfortable with alternate views of life, liberty, and the pursuit of pleasure. It just seemed so exciting that there was a vast world of sexual experience to be had. I guess you could say I was an aspiring bohemian.

 

However, all that was about to change.

 

I wasn't very popular at school, and when I would ask girls out, I would be rejected. I was deep in the "friend but not boyfriend material" zone. It wasn't my looks, because I had a lot of girls tell me I was cute ("Titanic" was popular at the time, and I was favorably compared to Leonardo diCaprio several times ). My friends were also starting to exclude me from more and more things.

 

So, facing a lot of rejection at school, it was easy for me to get very involved at church. I went pretty far down the fundamentalist path, and my previous views took a severe turn. The bohemian had become an extremely conservative bourgeois. I felt guilty and paranoid about everything, and this developed into a strong moral superiority complex. I also completely shut off my sexuality. I didn't masturbate or entertain sexual thoughts because not only was it sinful, I thought it was disrespectful.

 

I continued asking girls out, only to be rejected. It wasn't until I was 17 that I had my first date, followed soon after by my first kiss. In fact, she (I'll call her D) and I were just such an unbelievable match that we are still together.

 

When we got together, D and I established a lot of rules, some of which were reasonable, some of which were not. For example, we had rules that we wouldn't "check out" other people, or fantasize about anyone else. This was partly because we were young and insecure, and partly because I had some deep anxiety stemming from the way I had been living. My anxiety in turn caused her to be anxious and jealous. So, we laid out rules and everyone was happy.

 

What I said above might make it seem like D was being restrictive of me and I just want to make it clear that that's not the case. In fact, she's always been a free spirit herself and our relationship has been very freeing. She re-awakened my sexuality, and she freed me from the confines of the strict worldview that I had adopted, encouraging me to once again see alternate viewpoints and to just be myself.

 

Flash forward 10 years. D and I are happily married for a few years now. We've had a satisfying sex life, though I was a bit shy about asking her for what I'd like in bed. D and I were talking one night and she told me that she was sexually frustrated. I asked her why, and she told me that it was because she would like to experiment with other women. We had a long talk, and it turned out that while she had always been faithful to me, she had never followed the rules we had laid out regarding mental sexual activity. She fantasized about other people (men and women) and was shocked that I didn't. We realized that the expectations we had placed on each other were unreasonable and inhuman.

 

She had been getting over her jealousy even though I didn't know it. When we got married, she told my best man to take me to a strip club and make sure that I got a lapdance. I had fun that night, but I didn't let myself enjoy it too much. I told myself that I had gotten aroused because it was such a sexually charged environment, not because there were naked women everywhere I turned. For 10 years, I had been in complete denial that I could have even any sort of a sexual response for another woman.

 

When she admitted her desire to play with other people, all the libertine attitudes about sex that I had when I was younger flashed before my eyes. She was talking about us swinging, and I readily agreed. In fact, I surprised myself at how readily I agreed! It was such an open, honest, and liberating conversation that I feel it really made us much stronger as a couple. She can now be honest with me, and I can be honest with myself.

 

Now we only have three rules regarding our sex life: play smart (discreet and with sensible people), play safe (condoms & birth control ALWAYS), and tell each other everything that happens.

 

However, now I'm dealing with all of the baggage that I've been lugging around all this time regarding sex. I know intellectually that I'm good-looking because D tells me so, and I get a fair amount of appreciative looks and comments from older women (late 40's +) and gay men, but I'm not as confident in my ability to attract women in my own age group because I've had years upon years of rejection. She tells me that she sees women checking me out, but I must be completely clueless because I can never tell. I also feel like I'm completely starting over again sexually, because my sexuality completely revolved around her to the exclusion of all other ideas, let alone possibilities, and even before I was with her I had shut it all out completely.

 

If you've made it to here, thanks for sticking with me! Does anyone have any suggestions on ways that I can open myself up to being more comfortable with my sexuality? And ways that I can feel more confident? The freedom feels great, but it's also a little scary...

[padoc 1,703]

Swinging and sex in general is supposed to be fun. You are way too self absorbed. Go to a swing club, have a few drinks, meet people, lighten up, get naked and have fun. You need to harken back to the 60's and live the duel anthems of Love the one you're with and if it feels good.....do it and quit overthinking things.

[VegasLee 1,486]

Well, I am going to answer this more the way my wife would rather then my way.

 

She says more guys talk their self out of getting laid by thinking and talking.

 

She finds great looking guys, then they open their mouth and talk to much about things they should not even think about talking about.

 

If you are the good looking guy you think you are and you stated that even your friends started excluding you then it must not be your looks.

 

Think about it a bit. Look in the mirror. Stop over thinking swinging, go, relax, enjoy yourself and don't make more of it then it is.

 

padoc posted some good advise. Just don't over partake in the drink part. Drinks can make a person stupid fast.

 

Good luck to you.

[Newpants 21]

I agree with everything the other two posters have said but will add some more to it.

 

I will level with you, it is going to be a tough road ahead and you are going to hit some pretty big bumps along that road at time. The fact that you have spent years of your early development disciplining yourself to suppress attraction and sexual interest is really going to work against you but just as you learned to do it, you can also learn to undo it.

 

Swinging is tough for a lot of guys and there will be times that you feel like a porn star but they will be counteracted by many other times that you strike out left and right and couldn't get laid in a whorehouse with a million dollars in your pocket. Even the best looking and most charming men in the lifestyle get rejected....a lot.

 

And while you are struggling with your own personal demons and issues your wife is going to have the red carpet layed out in front of her and she is going to get all the attention and adoration and it will be easy to get envious of her attentions and opportunities.

 

The good news is if I can do it, anyone can!!

 

The first thing you need to do is have your wife and maybe even a girlfriend or two of hers take you out for a complete makeover and a day of shopping for a new wardrobe. I know, I know that sounds really gay but you are going to have to look as sharp as you possibly can and more importantly, not only are you going to have to look sharp, you are going to have to FEEL sharp. Personal confidence is one of the most critical characteristics that a swinger is going to have to have and you are in very short supply of that at the moment.

 

Then you are going to have to start working on your social skills and developing a whole new set of social and flirtation skills. That is going to take some work because you have trained yourself over the years to suppress your natural feelings of attraction towards women and have choked off your ability to express and convey that attraction. In a swinging venue you will need to express your attraction to someone in a matter of seconds and you probably won't get many if any second chances.

 

A good place to start right at this moment is to read the article, "PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT: THE ART OF TALKING TO STRANGERS" which is in the "Swinger Articles" section of this website. Read that article and start using those suggestions and techniques all day every day as you go through your normal daily activities. Social skills take time to develop but they can be learned and perfected over time.

 

I have not read it but I am sure it is a good book, so I would also recommend ordering the book "The Swinger Manual" by our own JustAskJulie. Along with that I would highly suggest reading as much as you can on this website and ask a lot of the questions you may have.

 

I would also reccommend getting some kind of swinging mentor or even taking one of those flirtation classes or classes on social skills and flirting etc.

 

Given your background it will take some work and effort for you but you sound very intelligent and self-aware and you are also able to express yourself well through the written word so you should be quite trainable to learn how to express yourself through the spoken word as well.

 

Good luck and keep us posted on how things are going for you.

[Mr.GeekChic 27]

Finally, the forum will let me reply to my own thread!!!

 

Thanks for the replies, everyone!

 

And while you are struggling with your own personal demons and issues your wife is going to have the red carpet layed out in front of her and she is going to get all the attention and adoration and it will be easy to get envious of her attentions and opportunities.

 

Yes, I'm well aware of this. I've had to get over my jealousy a long time ago. My wife is VERY beautiful, and never fails to get attention wherever she goes. I used to get really upset over the looks and comments she'd get from other guys, but one day (I remember it, actually) I realized that all the attention just demonstrates how lucky I am to have such a gorgeous spouse and that if she's enjoying the attention (who wouldn't, honestly?) then I should just calm down and enjoy the fact that I'm the one who's with her.

 

The first thing you need to do is have your wife and maybe even a girlfriend or two of hers take you out for a complete makeover and a day of shopping for a new wardrobe. I know, I know that sounds really gay but you are going to have to look as sharp as you possibly can and more importantly, not only are you going to have to look sharp, you are going to have to FEEL sharp.

 

I'm actually pretty lucky in this regard, too. Over the years, my wife has helped me to be a much better dresser (hence my username here). A makeover day does sound like a lot of fun, though...

 

Personal confidence is one of the most critical characteristics that a swinger is going to have to have and you are in very short supply of that at the moment.

 

Yes. This. It's a weird combination, really. One of my philosophies is that on a given topic there can be two differing opinions inside: what you think about it (what you know intellectually), and what you feel about it. Intellectually, I know that I must be physically attractive on some level because my wife tells me (and I believe that she's being honest about it) and because I do notice getting some attention from older women and gay men. However, I go back and forth on feeling attractive. If I'm so good looking, why don't I notice women looking at me? I've seen them looking at other guys. Do they look at me that way? **** if I know...

 

Then you are going to have to start working on your social skills and developing a whole new set of social and flirtation skills. That is going to take some work because you have trained yourself over the years to suppress your natural feelings of attraction towards women and have choked off your ability to express and convey that attraction. In a swinging venue you will need to express your attraction to someone in a matter of seconds and you probably won't get many if any second chances.

 

I have very little idea of how to flirt. Apparently a few years ago an acquaintance of ours had a crush on me and would flirt with me. I had no idea until someone else told me. I just feel utterly clueless and am not even sure how to start. I don't know when they're flirting with me, let alone how to flirt back. And since this is so new and given our past history, I'm still getting used to the idea that my wife would even want me to flirt with another woman.

 

A good place to start right at this moment is to read the article, "PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT: THE ART OF TALKING TO STRANGERS" which is in the "Swinger Articles" section of this website. Read that article and start using those suggestions and techniques all day every day as you go through your normal daily activities. Social skills take time to develop but they can be learned and perfected over time.

 

I have not read it but I am sure it is a good book, so I would also recommend ordering the book "The Swinger Manual" by our own JustAskJulie. Along with that I would highly suggest reading as much as you can on this website and ask a lot of the questions you may have.

 

Thanks for the tips. I'll look into those.

 

I would also reccommend getting some kind of swinging mentor or even taking one of those flirtation classes or classes on social skills and flirting etc.

 

They have classes like that? Sounds kind of fun.

 

Given your background it will take some work and effort for you but you sound very intelligent and self-aware and you are also able to express yourself well through the written word so you should be quite trainable to learn how to express yourself through the spoken word as well.

 

Good luck and keep us posted on how things are going for you.

 

It's definitely easier for me to write than to speak. But I posted this because I want to learn.

[ViSexual 1,008]

You mentioned that older women and gay guys do come on to you... There are older women at swinging clubs and parties, you know. And, it doesn't mean your wife has to be with their, 'older', husbands if she doesn't want to.

 

So, think about it, it sounds like you'd be more confortable with the more mature ladies and I think you just might find their experience thrilling. And, if it's something that interests you, find a lady for your lady and a gay, or bi, guy for yourself!

 

Swinging doesn't have to be two young couples swapping partners.

 

Good luck to you both and, relax, sit back, and enjoy!

[Alura 2,774]

If you've made it to here, thanks for sticking with me! Does anyone have any suggestions on ways that I can open myself up to being more comfortable with my sexuality? And ways that I can feel more confident? The freedom feels great, but it's also a little scary...

 

I'd suggest that you really cast off the church's idea that sex is somehow less than honorable. It won't be easy, but if you study history, rather than the bible, you'll find that Jesus never said anything derogatory about sex. That came through Saul of Tarsus, (who was a bit of an ugly cuss with whom women wouldn't even talk) and was cemented into place three hundred years after Jesus' death when the Roman Emperor Constintine ordered the bible to be assembled. In my opinion, the churches of today have little understanding of what Jesus was trying to teach.

 

The Great Spirit, who loves to see Her children eat bison and make love, doesn't seem to like churches and trailer parks. I think that's why She tears them apart so often with Her tornados.

 

I think the "make over" idea is a good one. It should build your confidence as well as make you more attractive to women.

 

Alura

[Mr.GeekChic 27]

You mentioned that older women and gay guys do come on to you... There are older women at swinging clubs and parties, you know. And, it doesn't mean your wife has to be with their, 'older', husbands if she doesn't want to.

 

So, think about it, it sounds like you'd be more confortable with the more mature ladies and I think you just might find their experience thrilling. And, if it's something that interests you, find a lady for your lady and a gay, or bi, guy for yourself!

 

Swinging doesn't have to be two young couples swapping partners.

 

Good luck to you both and, relax, sit back, and enjoy!

 

As long as I'm attracted to her, I'd be totally open to an older woman. Gay/bi guys aren't really my thing, though. I have tons of gay friends, so it's not that I have anything against it, it just doesn't really appeal to me. And it's not that I'm more comfortable with older women, it's just that it seems like they're the ones who either come out and tell me I'm good looking or who I hear about later on telling other people that. My wife and I were talking about it last night and she said she sees girls checking me out but they're just more discreet about it. I laughed and said "Well if they're so discreet about it, then how am I supposed to know they're interested?"

[Mr.GeekChic 27]

Swinging and sex in general is supposed to be fun. You are way too self absorbed. Go to a swing club, have a few drinks, meet people, lighten up, get naked and have fun. You need to harken back to the 60's and live the duel anthems of Love the one you're with and if it feels good.....do it and quit overthinking things.

 

I have always been one to overthink things. When she and I first started talking about it, I did a lot of overthinking until I basically figured out those first two anthems for myself.

 

Right now we've been looking at profiles online, but maybe going to a club would be a better experience. You don't get the immediate personal interaction online that you would at a club.

[Mr.GeekChic 27]

Well, I am going to answer this more the way my wife would rather then my way.

 

She says more guys talk their self out of getting laid by thinking and talking.

 

She finds great looking guys, then they open their mouth and talk to much about things they should not even think about talking about.

 

Can you give a more specific example(s) of what she means?

 

If you are the good looking guy you think you are and you stated that even your friends started excluding you then it must not be your looks.

 

My friends don't really exclude me anymore. I completely understand why they used to, though. I was basically a 16 year old Frasier Crane, and no one really wants to be around someone like that. I could be pretty insufferable, and I would have a very hard time just relaxing and having fun. Especially if the fun they were having involved something that was outside my comfort zone. I'm a totally different person now, though. And now that I am, it's time for me to shed my self-doubt.

 

Think about it a bit. Look in the mirror. Stop over thinking swinging, go, relax, enjoy yourself and don't make more of it then it is.

 

I guess I'm kind of trying to figure out how to get myself out there in the first place, so that I have something to relax about and enjoy.

 

padoc posted some good advise. Just don't over partake in the drink part. Drinks can make a person stupid fast.

 

Good luck to you.

 

Thanks for your advice as well. And no, I definitely won't over indulge. I'm a very light drinker, so it wouldn't take much to put me out. And what was Shakespeare's quote about alcohol? Something like "It provokes the desire but takes away the performance."

[Mr.GeekChic 27]

I'd suggest that you really cast off the church's idea that sex is somehow less than honorable. It won't be easy, but if you study history, rather than the bible, you'll find that Jesus never said anything derogatory about sex. That came through Saul of Tarsus, (who was a bit of an ugly cuss with whom women wouldn't even talk) and was cemented into place three hundred years after Jesus' death when the Roman Emperor Constintine ordered the bible to be assembled. In my opinion, the churches of today have little understanding of what Jesus was trying to teach.

 

The Great Spirit, who loves to see Her children eat bison and make love, doesn't seem to like churches and trailer parks. I think that's why She tears them apart so often with Her tornados.

 

I think the "make over" idea is a good one. It should build your confidence as well as make you more attractive to women.

 

Alura

 

Fortunately, I've gotten rid of that aspect of myself, too. I have changed religions a few times since then, and finally found one that really fits.

 

And even though Jesus never said anything about sex, there were plenty of other sources (both old and new testament) in the Bible whose ideas about it were all over the place. Not to mention that abstinence is the preferred modality that is taught to Christian youth. There was enough talk about how sinful the flesh is from the religion at large that I listened to it. It was only after I stopped going to church that I realized how much that I felt so much of Christianity missed the boat when it came to Jesus' teachings. In my mind it basically boiled down to "Look, those old rules that you were told to live by? Don't worry about those so much. Just love God and love each other and it'll all be fine."

 

Please don't get the wrong idea. I have nothing against Christianity, and I'm not trying to bash it. Jesus's teachings were profound and valuable. I just think that they have been mis-used and ignored in favor of other things. My point is only to share my perspective on it, both the place where I'm coming from and the place where I'm going.

[lustylearning 705]

If you really can't tell when someone is flirting with you, then you have to be the starter. Don't look for signals. Send them. Something to keep in mind, if you and your wife are playing together, you may want to get her input before you pick a target/s. Success can be quick, and it might piss her off if she finds herself in a situation she had no part in, expected to close the deal.

 

If you're stuck wondering what to talk about, I suggest you be yourself. You may meet 10 people, only one of whom you click with. No big deal. If you're trying to hook up with your own age group, you have to compete, because to your peers, you're just another guy. Bring the best of yourself to the table, dance, enjoy yourself, and show it. Show no fear of rejection.

 

Expect nothing; enjoy what you get; and keep in mind, it gets easier.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

Mr.GeekChic

 

You may be surprised at how quickly you'll adapt to being more confident and sexually comfortable. I find that when my mind is sure of a decision I've made, I tend to show it in my body language and how I communicate to others. I am open to the universe, wisdom flows in. I think you're sure of your newfound self and this will help you immensely.

 

You can now appreciate the attractive, sexy qualities in others. Once you begin spending time around swingers you will probably take to it easier than you think.

 

What are you and your wife doing to find swingers? Are you on a swinger ad site, do you have swinger clubs to attend? I will be interested in hearing about how things develop for you once you try those avenues.

 

I look forward to your posts.

 

LM

[midnightplayer 135]

What a terrific post and the responses are awsome. This was the most enjoyable reading I have done on this site. Good Luck Geek and to all of you well done on the advice I got a lot out of it as well as he did. Thanks you all

[Mr.GeekChic 27]

Mr.GeekChic

 

You may be surprised at how quickly you'll adapt to being more confident and sexually comfortable. I find that when my mind is sure of a decision I've made, I tend to show it in my body language and how I communicate to others. I am open to the universe, wisdom flows in. I think you're sure of your newfound self and this will help you immensely.

 

Hi LikeMinds321! Thanks for the advice. Yes, I feel that with all of the changes I've gone through, I am finally getting to be the person I always wanted to be. And I completely understand what you mean when you say the wisdom flows in, becaue I've always experienced that too. Yesterday I was practicing archery when I had a revelation: confidence isn't something for me to acquire, it's something that's already in me. I just need to learn how to express it.

 

You can now appreciate the attractive, sexy qualities in others.

 

And that's been quite enjoyable, and it's a lot of fun to talk with my wife about people we find attractive.

 

Once you begin spending time around swingers you will probably take to it easier than you think.

 

What are you and your wife doing to find swingers? Are you on a swinger ad site, do you have swinger clubs to attend? I will be interested in hearing about how things develop for you once you try those avenues.

 

I look forward to your posts.

 

LM

 

We are on a site, but there aren't really any clubs to attend in our area.

[Mr.GeekChic 27]

What a terrific post and the responses are awsome. This was the most enjoyable reading I have done on this site. Good Luck Geek and to all of you well done on the advice I got a lot out of it as well as he did. Thanks you all

 

Thanks, midnightplayer! And I'm glad it can benefit someone else, too.

[Mr.GeekChic 27]

Thanks for the reply, and nice to meet you, lustylearning!

 

If you really can't tell when someone is flirting with you, then you have to be the starter. Don't look for signals. Send them.

 

I like this. And I'm starting to realize just how important eye contact is. You can tell much more through eye contact than I realized. I know that sounds kind of stupidly obvious, but it's something I'm learning. When you don't see it as even a possiblity that someone could be flirting with you, your sense for it atrophies. And since I had shut it off myself when it was first developing, it's got that much more to re-grow.

 

Something to keep in mind, if you and your wife are playing together, you may want to get her input before you pick a target/s. Success can be quick, and it might piss her off if she finds herself in a situation she had no part in, expected to close the deal.

 

Yes, definitely. I have a good handle on what her type is, so if we were playing together I can probably tell whether she'd be interested or not. And I wouldn't want her to "take one for the team".

 

If you're stuck wondering what to talk about, I suggest you be yourself. You may meet 10 people, only one of whom you click with. No big deal. If you're trying to hook up with your own age group, you have to compete, because to your peers, you're just another guy. Bring the best of yourself to the table, dance, enjoy yourself, and show it. Show no fear of rejection.

 

I'm kind of curious about this... If I'm just another guy to my peers (which I understand), then what am I to non-peers?

 

Expect nothing; enjoy what you get; and keep in mind, it gets easier.

 

Thanks!

[lustylearning 705]

Nice to meet you too, Mr. GeekChic.

 

I'm kind of curious about this... If I'm just another guy to my peers (which I understand), then what am I to non-peers?

 

~smile~ You're "the prize." My husband pointed this out as I was reading your post aloud to him, after the part where you mentioned you saw a difference in the approach of older women and gay men.

 

When we first went to the club we used to frequent, people came to us; we didn't have to do much work. I later discovered it had a lot to do with the people in the club knowing each other well and with us being "fresh meat" (i.e. the prize).

 

Cool thing about the lifestyle is that everyone's a prize to someone for some reason, though it may last only a couple of hours. Maybe it's because of looks, maybe status, or something much simpler - the way she smiles at you, or the way he makes you laugh. Even within your peers, there will be those who find something in you to desire. You may just have to work a little harder for it to be seen.

 

I agree with you on the eye contact 110%. For me at least, it's the non-verbal communication that usually hooks me:)

[Olivesman 15]

May we make a suggestion? First, like Olivesman, you think too much and are your own worst critic. Why not have a mini-vacation where you leave on a Friday, drive the distance to a club, try Friday evening ( usually a meet & greet), see if you like it, sight-see, loaf, make love and go back to the club on Saturday evening. And come home on Sunday.

 

One, you will get away. Two, you and your bride will stick your toes in the water and three (most important) you two will be able to communicate at a level you didn't think possible, even if all you do is look and listen.

 

If nothing else, you will discover that no one will bite ( unless you ask).

 

The Olives

[Mr.GeekChic 27]

Nice to meet you too, Mr. GeekChic.

 

 

 

~smile~ You're "the prize." My husband pointed this out as I was reading your post aloud to him, after the part where you mentioned you saw a difference in the approach of older women and gay men.

 

When we first went to the club we used to frequent, people came to us; we didn't have to do much work. I later discovered it had a lot to do with the people in the club knowing each other well and with us being "fresh meat" (i.e. the prize).

 

Cool thing about the lifestyle is that everyone's a prize to someone for some reason, though it may last only a couple of hours. Maybe it's because of looks, maybe status, or something much simpler - the way she smiles at you, or the way he makes you laugh. Even within your peers, there will be those who find something in you to desire. You may just have to work a little harder for it to be seen.

 

I agree with you on the eye contact 110%. For me at least, it's the non-verbal communication that usually hooks me:)

 

I must say I like being thought of as "the prize".

[Mr.GeekChic 27]

May we make a suggestion? First, like Olivesman, you think too much and are your own worst critic. Why not have a mini-vacation where you leave on a Friday, drive the distance to a club, try Friday evening ( usually a meet & greet), see if you like it, sight-see, loaf, make love and go back to the club on Saturday evening. And come home on Sunday.

 

One, you will get away. Two, you and your bride will stick your toes in the water and three (most important) you two will be able to communicate at a level you didn't think possible, even if all you do is look and listen.

 

If nothing else, you will discover that no one will bite ( unless you ask).

 

The Olives

 

Hi Olives, thanks for the reply! I think this is probably what we're going to do at some point. We're about 4 hours away from a major metropolitan city.

[Mr.GeekChic 27]

I've been doing a lot of thinking and soul-searching after starting this thread and reading all the replies, and it's truly changed my perspective. I had let other people stuff my sense of a sexual self into a box and they watched while I locked it away in the basement. Now I have complete freedom to let it out, not only for my own development into a whole person but also to have fun in this lifestyle.

 

I realized that my confidence problem wasn't that women weren't paying attention to me, it was that I wasn't paying attention to myself. When I shut off my sexual identity, I also shut off both my sense that anyone could be attracted to me and also my identity as an attractive person. I had become all but literally blind and deaf to their interest. No wonder when my wife said she saw women looking at me I couldn't see it. And when someone would complement my appearance, it fell on deaf ears.

 

Now I'm thinking back on the past 15 years, remembering the comments that people have made about me. And you know what? That whole time, there was only one, ONE, person who has ever insulted my looks. And that's stacked up against comments like "X and I think you look like Gavin Rossdale", "Isn't he cute, Z?", and "You and your wife look like members of the Cullens!" (from Twilight ), among many others. When girls wouldn't go out with me in high school, it was because I was a snobby, morally uptight, neurotic mess. They liked my looks (though I dress a lot better now), but not what was underneath them. But high school me is long gone. I have come so far from where I used to be.

 

And you know what else? Yesterday, when I looked in the mirror, I actually liked what I saw.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Do some studies online (or pick up a couple of books) on body language. You may also want to pick up the book called "The Game". I can't remember the authors name but he did a show on VH1 called the Pick Up Artist. Another good book to read is "How to Work a Room" (I posted a review of it the book reviews section). This last one really helped my hubby go from wallflower to social butterfly at swinger parties.

[Mr.GeekChic 27]

Do some studies online (or pick up a couple of books) on body language. You may also want to pick up the book called "The Game". I can't remember the authors name but he did a show on VH1 called the Pick Up Artist. Another good book to read is "How to Work a Room" (I posted a review of it the book reviews section). This last one really helped my hubby go from wallflower to social butterfly at swinger parties.

 

Hi JustAskJulie! Thanks for the book recommendations! I'll check those out.

[realcplub2 513]

To quote Al Pacino in the Devils Advocate..

 

Put down the fucking bag of bricks.. Cause when you do, watch out

 

Like your tale, mine was fairly close, although I never went to the religon. My confidence sucked, I was turned down at most every turn by the members of the fairer sex. And the dreaded " i just wanna be friends" was heard so many times.. The difference being, I had those that offered friendship get pissed because, I asked the honest question, Can't we do both?

 

Inside there was a constant battle between the Knight, and the Party Animal.. One part conforming to the "proper and well mannered" the other, Not caring and Eager..

 

The biggest stumbling point anyone has is getting past is, themselves.. The very fact that through out the previous posts you have recognised this, is the largest step towards healing the problem.

 

There are two parts to the cure I suggest

 

The first, re connect with the old you

 

I can tell you one of the most erotic, exotic, and flat out Cock hardening pieces of PORN i saw when I was a teen was a european mini magazine thing.. Was about twenty pages, in a unknown language.. ( ok I wasnt READING it) but you got the gist of the story, so sweet young thing is propositioned by three guys. What followed was and still is burned in my mind.

 

I am sure there are aspects that interested you then, that appealed to you all thru your years. Since your wife came to you with her honesty, respect that and then be honest with yourself.. and her. First work out all the little thrills that spun your brain back then.. and then discuss that with her.

 

The second part, is as much as you have both embarked on your adventures.. Consider doing them together. And, if she sees this one or that interested in you, she needs to tell you some how.

 

Read thru other threads, and find your comfort zone, one that works for you both.

 

Ours is, we are a couple, any play is as a couple.. We dont seperate..

 

Consider all of this as well as the wealth of information here, and go with what you are comfortable with..

 

Often simple encounters, same room non swap sex can help.. Or soft swap again as a couple, can build up your confidence. Besides if you can watch her enjoy herself, its quite possible she might enjoy seeing you pleased just as much.

 

I have long held the belief that swinging is a couples sport.. to be enjoyed by both, sharing the experiences..

 

Hope this helps

[Mr.GeekChic 27]

Nice to meet you, realcplub2!

 

 

 

To quote Al Pacino in the Devils Advocate..

 

Put down the fucking bag of bricks.. Cause when you do, watch out

 

I've been wanting to watch this movie for years. Maybe I'll have to now, if only to see the context of your quote. I think I get what you mean though. If I drop the baggage I'll be a force to be reckoned with.

 

Like your tale, mine was fairly close, although I never went to the religon. My confidence sucked, I was turned down at most every turn by the members of the fairer sex. And the dreaded " i just wanna be friends" was heard so many times.. The difference being, I had those that offered friendship get pissed because, I asked the honest question, Can't we do both?

 

Inside there was a constant battle between the Knight, and the Party Animal.. One part conforming to the "proper and well mannered" the other, Not caring and Eager..

 

Ah, yes, "just friends". I got that one so many times that I started thinking, "I've got enough friends, I want a girlfriend!" But those were the girls that already knew me and knew my reputation around the school. When we'd have outside activities that involved other schools, I'd have girls talk to me. That's another reason why I know that they'd be attracted to me, but it was the way that I was acting that was driving them away.

 

There was no inner conflict for me. I had broken the party animal when it was still a pup, before it ever got a chance to even think about being set free. For me it was knight through and through. I thought that girls would like the fact that I didn't act like the other guys, that they'd be more interested in me because of it. No. No. I didn't respond to their sexual nature, so they didn't respond to mine.

 

The biggest stumbling point anyone has is getting past is, themselves.. The very fact that through out the previous posts you have recognised this, is the largest step towards healing the problem.

 

Yes, I feel like I've hit a major milestone. I truly feel different now.

 

There are two parts to the cure I suggest

 

The first, re connect with the old you

 

I can tell you one of the most erotic, exotic, and flat out Cock hardening pieces of PORN i saw when I was a teen was a european mini magazine thing.. Was about twenty pages, in a unknown language.. ( ok I wasnt READING it) but you got the gist of the story, so sweet young thing is propositioned by three guys. What followed was and still is burned in my mind.

 

Anyone ever read "Imajica" by Clive Barker? Holy cats, that was a book that did it for me. I started it when I was about 13, and it was about everything important to me: love, magic, reality, art, and plenty of sex. And not just vanilla sex, either; there was some pretty exotic stuff in there. There were others, too, short stories mostly, however...

 

I stayed away from porn, though. When I was very young, I had been around pornography calendars, posters, things like that. My parents didn't really care because they thought I was too young to understand... But I knew more than they thought and I liked sneaking peeks when I could. However, after they had "the talk" with me when I was about 8, they became very strict that about what I was exposed to, and I began to get very mixed messages about sex. Then, when I got really uptight about sex, I censored myself as to what I could see. Stories were okay (see Imajica above), but only as long as it was prose and didn't contain any pictures. Eventually, stories weren't even okay because they would make me so horny that I couldn't help but to get myself off, so in the interests of saving my soul, I purged my room of anything that turned me on.

 

I also bought into the whole idea that porn was degrading to women, and out of respect to them I shouldn't have anything to do with it. That changed when I was about 18, though. I watched some porn with a bunch of friends and really enjoyed it. I saw that the women were enjoying themselves, too, so that made it okay in my mind.

 

I am sure there are aspects that interested you then, that appealed to you all thru your years. Since your wife came to you with her honesty, respect that and then be honest with yourself.. and her. First work out all the little thrills that spun your brain back then.. and then discuss that with her.

 

The second part, is as much as you have both embarked on your adventures.. Consider doing them together. And, if she sees this one or that interested in you, she needs to tell you some how.

 

Read thru other threads, and find your comfort zone, one that works for you both.

 

Ours is, we are a couple, any play is as a couple.. We dont seperate..

 

Consider all of this as well as the wealth of information here, and go with what you are comfortable with..

 

Often simple encounters, same room non swap sex can help.. Or soft swap again as a couple, can build up your confidence. Besides if you can watch her enjoy herself, its quite possible she might enjoy seeing you pleased just as much.

 

I have long held the belief that swinging is a couples sport.. to be enjoyed by both, sharing the experiences..

 

Hope this helps

 

Thanks for all the advice! We've been doing a lot of talking about where our comfort levels are, and I think we've got a pretty good handle on what's okay with us. Right now though, it's all just theoretical.

 

And I'm trying to get a better handle on my own sexuality. When I shut it down all those years ago, I pretty much lost the ability to fantasize period. Now I feel like I'm just starting to open up again and I'm starting to explore just what's out there and what turns me on. And I'm just starting to look at and be attracted to women other than my wife. That's completely new territory.

[Mr.GeekChic 27]

Thanks again to all the people that told me I'm over thinking it. I had one of my trademark epiphanies this week and I realized I have a pathological tendency to overthink everything in my life, and it's held me down for a long time.

 

It's not just that I overthink something, it's that I overintellectualize it and analyze it to the point where it's a sickness. It sucks all the fun out of the things I try to do.

 

I'm going to work on just starting to let things happen naturally and just go with it. When I first started thinking about how I feel about swinging, I was completely overintellectualizing it, to the point where I'd be questioning "Do I want sex with other people? And if I do, what does that mean?" Then one day I just stopped and realized, "Um, yes, sex with other people sounds like a lot of fun, and it doesn't make what I do with my wife any less special. In fact, if anything, it's going to add to it because now we can share with each other in a whole new way, and at the same time have fun with other people. I'm damn lucky to have a wife who's not only sexually adventurous, but also encourages me to be also!"

 

Lately, I'm really feeling like Janet by the end of Rocky Horror Picture Show, where she's gone from being repressed and vanilla to having her mind expanded by the wide world of sexuality that she found.

[PB&J 1,086]

Lately, I'm really feeling like Janet by the end of Rocky Horror Picture Show, where she's gone from being repressed and vanilla to having her mind expanded by the wide world of sexuality that she found.

 

Poor Brad... what about him and his fishnets, awkwardly raising that leg and singing "I feel se-e-e-xy"! Doesn't anyone like Brad?

[Mr.GeekChic 27]

Poor Brad... what about him and his fishnets, awkwardly raising that leg and singing "I feel se-e-e-xy"! Doesn't anyone like Brad?

 

He does try, doesn't he? I suppose Frank N. Furter liked him alright, judging from that one scene of theirs! But I bet Frank N. Furter likes pretty much everybody...