Required to shave to play

[asncpl 729]

We recently met a couple through another lifestyle friend of ours and they asked us, very nicely, that if we wanted to play with them, we must shave/wax our pubic hair. They explained that it's to prevent STDs. Now I am usually either trimmed or waxed, and Mr. A is trimmed. While I certainly have gotten requests to shave or not from others, it's more a matter of preference. No one has said we can't play if we don't shave. Now we did go brazilian and ended up having a good time with this couple. But I'd certainly like to get a second opinion from y'all whether going bare down there does prevent STDs? The only STD I know that's transmitted by pubic hair is crabs, but can that be prevented if there is no hair? Any other ones? And has anyone been asked that they must go bare to play?

 

thanks everyone!

[fun4Ds 1,098]

Never have been told it is "mandatory", but have been told it is preferred....

 

Maybe they feel they get a better looky lou, inspection down there. I don't know?

 

Please tell me they didn't have a pen light and dental mirror on a stick

 

FWIW, I would think a nick or cut from a razor not only looks bad but might be more of a risk?

[Trace Ekies 186]

We met a couple who required we be trimmed/shaved and that I be circumcised...oh, and I had to have a quick rinse in the shower before getting intimate...

 

They mentioned the requirements for being circumcised and pubic hair grooming in their profile....the shower was a surprise but no trouble...

 

He turned out to be a control freak and ended our relationship very quickly when we couldn't be controlled to suit him.

[VegasLee 1,486]

They explained that it's to prevent STDs.

 

These are the type of people I would personally stay away from. Those that have a false sense of security using false information.

 

Being shaved is not going to prevent any type of STD. Since they go as far as telling people that I feel they are dangerous passing on false information like that. I would want nothing to do with them.

[SecretAsianMan 348]

While I certainly understand the preference for being shaved... yeah, I'm a little weirded out that they think shaving can in any way shape or form prevent an STD

[realcplub2 513]

I would think that being shaved, is not a prevention, but think in terms of exterior/surface .. genital warts, herpes, and of course no hair, no "lice"

 

But yeah, it is a false sense of security.. Years ago, when I was a teenager, the garage I hung around had an older guy who claimed he had a foolproof method for know if a woman was clean..

 

Now mind you this codger was 60+ years in age and definitely alcohol fueled most of the day.. He claimed if he took ear wax and applied it to the nether regions, and she didn't react she was "clean"

 

Which of course leads to very important questions..

 

1. What kind of women did this guy get with cause she let him DO THAT

2. How did we make it to the 21st century with thinking like this

[bbarnsworth 2,640]

Agree with others. The notion that shaving/waxing would reduce STDs is laughable. In fact, it's quite possibly the opposite. If you've recently shaved, you could potentially have open minor wounds in your skin, providing a pathway for infection to take root.

 

2. How did we make it to the 21st century with thinking like this

 

Some of us can bang the rocks together, some can't. It's a Dr. Seuss thing

[cplnuswing 4,713]

realcplub2 said:

.. He claimed if he took ear wax and applied it to the nether regions, and she didn't react she was "clean"

 

Now that's truly bizarre. What I want to know though is what the details were that led to this eureka moment. I mean, exactly how does one simply stumble upon such a momentous discovery?

 

If the old dude were still alive today, he'd probably still be laughing at the BS stories he told you horndog teens and that you maybe, kinda, sorta believed

[piglet6870 15]

well that is a new one to me. I have never heard that before, guess you can google it and see what you come up with.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

asncpl said:

They explained that it's to prevent STDs.

 

I'm wondering if they also believe that the monster under the bed can't get you as long as your feet are under the blanket.

 

Preferences are preferences, but they should at least be educated preferences.

[sweet_tna 680]

Yeeeaaahhh . . . As the others have said, claiming that being bare down there is any detriment to STD's is bunk.

 

Even if this were purely their preference, I'm not sure I'd reach for the razor on their account (unless it was something I already did).

 

To thine own self be true . . .

[asncpl 729]

thanks everyone! Trace hit it right on. Now that I think back, the other couple (especially the husband) was definitely control freak. But I have to say, at least they were very nice about it.

[siren52 15]

I've heard of people saying they were allergic to an item they want left off their food order just to make certain they don't get it. It could be something like that. Not that they really believe that, they are throwing that on to mean they really really want you shaved.

[highlander 21]

I poked around and found a reference to a 2006 study that claimed a reduction in Pubic Lice might be attributed to increased Brazilian style shaving in Leeds, UK.

 

 

Quote

Lice need their "forest" in order to survive. However, just like the Brazilian Amazon forests, another one seem to be lost forever, thanks to the influence of modern civilization... A British research published in the June 2006 issue of the Sexually Transmitted Infections journal revealed that crab rates in Leeds area declined first in women and several years after in men, in a context in which other STDs were stationary or increasing. It appears that the bikini wax treatment (also called "The Brazilian") has left crabs with no habitat.

 

"Although initially predominantly seen in females, extensive hair depilation, including pubic hair, has become popular in males in the past few years. This, along with reduced transmission rates from female partners, may account for the recent similar reduction in male patients," wrote the authors.

 

The extract for the actual journal article is here.

 

The BIG caveat:

if someone already had pubic lice, shaving isn't necessarily going to get rid of them. These critters require only a very small amount of hair to persist. However, we have at least some serious researchers suggesting shaving does something to lower the risks of getting this STI if you and your partners are both shaved.

 

Whether the research is true--or not--what I noticed poking around, it seems like some folks are wanting to use the Brazilian as a visible way of demonstrating they are careful about their health - and that of their partners.

[good times 991]

I actually think one could more easily make the argument for the opposite being the case. As shaving usually creates irritation, and even small cuts in the skin, it would increase the chances of the spread of many std's rather than prevent them.

 

I agree with Lee though, they suffer from a severe case of false sense of security at the very least.

[highlander 21]

First off, I have never shaved or encouraged a partner to do so.

 

The whole practice of pubic shaving is pretty deeply rooted in Islamic culture. In that part of the world, the idea this has health benefits is "common sense"--like washing in the west. However, I couldn't find any really good studies on the topic. The wikipedia article on pubic shaving talks about evidence of health hazards-but no real studies to back up claims on either side of the shave/no shave issue.

[Trojan Defense 15]

I once had a girl insist that as a condition for asking her to get tested, I must shave, as to reduce the risk of her possibly getting crabs. Though personally, I'd be more concerned about the viral stds that you can not get rid of than I would be about something you can get rid of, like crabs. My guess is that by shaving, one may reduce their risk of public lice (aka crabs), while simultaneously increasing their risk from other stds that could travel through small cuts in the skin.

 

In any event, it would seem like such a poor risk reduction strategy, that it shouldn't matter if a person is shaved or not. I think a far better risk reduction strategy would be to require recent std test results, and if you still get crabs, just get treated for them. Its not like you can't get rid of the stuff.

[highlander 21]

A lot of traditional medicine has pretty deep roots. I'm personally puzzled in just why many Islamic countries have as low of rate of HIV as they appear to have. Circumcision(which is a practice of the Islamic religion) may play a major role. Genital shaving appears to be part of their mix.

 

I agree periodic and frequent testing of all partners in a pool would likely have better results-but the thing about the Islamic system is it is something that has been done on a large scale for a long time.

 

My personal position here:

I'm not going to criticize anything anyone wants to do for purposes of safety-if there is any reasonable chance it might work. People's safety needs are really personal. However, I want to same degree of respect.

 

I suspect your female friend thought STD testing was unnecessary and unlikely to help much-but she went along with you-and asked for something she wanted in return. That really isn't such a bad deal in the big scheme of things.

[SecretAsianMan 348]

A lot of traditional medicine has pretty deep roots. I'm personally puzzled in just why many Islamic countries have as low of rate of HIV as they appear to have. Circumcision(which is a practice of the Islamic religion) may play a major role. Genital shaving appears to be part of their mix.

 

Umm... neither circumcision nor shaving of the genitals will in ANY way shape or form help prevent anyone from becoming infected with the HIV virus - nor will it help the spread of the disease.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

SecretAsianMan said:

Umm... neither circumcision nor shaving of the genitals will in ANY way shape or form help prevent anyone from becoming infected with the HIV virus - nor will it help the spread of the disease.

 

Male Circumcision and Risk for HIV Transmission: Implications for the United States | Factsheets | CDC HIV/AIDS

"Several types of research have documented that male circumcision significantly reduces the risk of HIV acquisition by men during penile-vaginal sex."

[SecretAsianMan 348]

two4youinswva said:

Male Circumcision and Risk for HIV Transmission: Implications for the United States | Factsheets | CDC HIV/AIDS

"Several types of research have documented that male circumcision significantly reduces the risk of HIV acquisition by men during penile-vaginal sex."

 

Ok... I can see where that could pose a slightly greater risk to HIV infection (in regards to circumcision)

 

So, how would shaving help??

[two4youinswva 3,068]

So, how would shaving help??

 

Highlander wasn't saying it would, it was just an observational statement.

 

Read his other post in this thread, at the top of the page (I believe), where he referenced a study that pointed towards the opposite.

[highlander 21]

Highlander wasn't saying it would, it was just an observational statement.

That's right. Right now, I think we are largely flying blind in this area. There is some anecdotal evidence suggesting shaving may contain spread of pubic lice(i.e. that study I cited). The evidence on circumcision and HIV is stronger. I'd love to see a good study on shaving and a range of STD's. I suspect it would have no inpact on anything but lice-but that is speculation on my part.

[slevin 1,374]

two4youinswva said:

Male Circumcision and Risk for HIV Transmission: Implications for the United States | Factsheets | CDC HIV/AIDS

"Several types of research have documented that male circumcision significantly reduces the risk of HIV acquisition by men during penile-vaginal sex."

 

There are a growing number of studies that say exactly the opposite; like this one that notes circumcision as being one of the common factors amongst HIV infected women in Rwanda.

 

Risk factors associated with prevalent HIV-1 infec... [int J Epidemiol. 1994] - PubMed result

 

Or this one that notes that circumcision doesn't help to reduce the chance of an HIV infected male transmitting it to their female partner:

 

Circumcision in HIV-infected men and its effect on HIV transmission to female partners in Rakai, Uganda: a randomised controlled trial : The Lancet

 

There are more and more that are determining circumcision doesn't reduce the chance of contracting HIV. From a purely practical perspective this makes sense as well. Consider that Africa has one of the largest percentage of circumcised men, but also one of the highest rates of HIV infection. The US has one of the highest rates of circumcised men (10th in the word) and has one of the highest rates of HIV infection amongst the developed world. It seems that you would expect those numbers to be quite different if circumcision actually helped as much as some research claims.

 

None of that takes into account the much more likely causes of HIV infection though: IV drug use and blood transfusions. At least the first study that I noted included those factors in their analysis though.

[highlander 21]

The studies I've seen on circumcision claim that it reduces the chance of a man getting HIV at 50% or so per coital act. The 1994 study was tricky, because it wasn't trying to do a head to head comparison. Being circumcised in Rwanda largely means being a Muslim-which is also accompanied with all kinds of other habits besides being circumcised.

 

As far as what is going on in Africa, the country has a very high rate of a variety of STD's that tend to facilitate HIV infection-as well has problems with parasites and malaria-and huge nutritional problems. I honestly don't think that circumcision and/or condoms really can do much in that kind of environment. I'd figure 50% risk reduction for circumcision and 80-90% for condoms. That just isn't enough when you are dealing with a population that is both very vulnerable and infectious

[Trojan Defense 15]

highlander said:

That really isn't such a bad deal in the big scheme of things.

 

It was not a bad deal at all. I was a little put off by it at first since I had never shaven before, and thought it'd be weird not having any hair down there, but you eventually get past that, and even if you don't, it is not like it can't grow back. Certainly not a bad deal in exchange for testing in any event.

[cplnuswing 4,713]

On 7/12/2010 at 3:39 AM, asncpl said:

we must shave/wax our pubic hair. They explained that it's to prevent STDs.

There appears to be at least some suggestions otherwise...

 

Correlation between pubic hair grooming and STIs: results from a nationally representative probability sample

 

From the summary, they did adjust for age and lifetime sexual partners, but without knowing the details of that hard to say if this is a good example of "correlation does not equal causation" or not since there are other factors (frequency of condom use, hair removal method, etc.) that don't appear to have been taken into account.

 

Now having said that, I think it's pretty much proven fact that cut/abraded skin is more susceptible to infection, so there's probably something to it. It's just a matter of how much of a risk factor it is, and as we have frequently discussed here, risk is one of those personal things that you just have to evaluate for yourself.  I think how much of a factor probably depends too - sex one hour after shaving probably carries a higher risk of transmission than sex three days after shaving.  Study seems to back that up with the results for "extreme groomers", "high frequency groomers", etc.