Strange comment at party last night

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

Last night one of our local social clubs had an event. We had planned to go, but the wife was not feeling well so she insisted I go alone, mainly to see some people we had been planning to meet.

 

It was odd being without her, now I think I understand what single guys feel like. It was difficult to have a conversation with all but a handful of new people, it was no problem for the ones WE already know. I guess I was seen as a single male for the night lol.

 

At one point during the evening a lady, several years my senior, made a comment to me.

 

She said "you are a good boy, aren't you". I was a bit confused and frankly not sure exactly what she said due to the music. She repeated herself and added that I was "being TOO much of a gentleman." She added that I did not put my hands on the ladies except for maybe their arm and that they expected me to be a bit more outgoing and to physically show more interest.

 

Admittedly I am a bit more shy in swinger situations than I am in everyday life. But it caught me off guard. I have always felt it was rather rude to put my hands on a lady in a sexual manner unless we were actively engaged in sex or she made the first move.

 

I would see guys come by and "grab" a women, some ladies seemed fine with it, others less so. And when engaged in conversation other men's hands seem to roam much more than mine.

 

I told the Mrs. what the lady said when I returned home. She laughed and added that I am a bit too laid back, to the point I seem disinterested in anything other than conversation at times.

 

I have always felt that not groping a women and being a respectful gentleman was a good thing, but am I being "too much of a gentleman" in these situations, as the lady said? I sure would like to hear some others opinions, particularly the women out there.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

I'm with you on this one. I don't play grab-ass unless I've either been invited, or have been given permission to play grab-ass before.

 

I think you can show your interest just as well by showing genuine interest in what she has to say, or a touch on the arm during conversation. Actually, I know you can be successful doing this, since it worked quite well for us recently.

 

I can't imagine groping someone that I don't know as they pass by. That feels oafish to me. However, a smile and a stare that lasts a second too long can be fun.

[exploringRM 305]

Wow, I was considering posting on a similar topic, trying to find that line between being respectful and overbearing and pushy. Many of my play partners (women) are not shy and there's a mutual groping going one when we dance. When faced with a woman (I don't know well) that is more passive, I'm always at a loss on how far to go. I want to seem interested but don't want to be a turn-off either.

[Fundamental Law 2,885]

Good manners are never inappropriate.

[exploringRM 305]

Good manners are never inappropriate.

 

I agree and I typically err on the side of good manners, but there are some women that are not that forward and want the man to take the lead.

[lustylearning 705]

I think timing is everything, and a light touch on the arm in passing or a direct smile speaks more about desire than groping. Go ahead and use the force for good.

[Fundamental Law 2,885]

I think timing is everything, and a light touch on the arm in passing or a direct smile speaks more about desire than groping. Go ahead and use the force for good.

 

It's still about nuance and seduction.

 

Bravo. Well spoken. And better practiced.

[Cajun2Step 65]

I too have wondered how aggressive to be when at a party or with a new lady that I have just met. I will always err on the side of being a gentleman.

[Cajun2Step 65]

Well now, I just got an education. Lady2Step just informed me that she and many women would prefer the men to be the aggressors. She takes it as a real compliment when someone plays with her breasts, or her butt, or slides a hand inside to see what she has on under her skirt.

 

Who knew? Not me!

I still will err on the side of being a gentleman.

[LFM2 1,482]

Since I'm a woman, I'll answer.

 

We once met a couple at a bar. Very nice couple and we're still friends, but have no desire to "hook up" with them, whatsoever. Why you ask? (C'mon, I know you asked!)

 

The moment I sat down, they introduced themselves to us and not 10 seconds passed and he had his hand in my hair and it was also rubbing up and down my back. GROSSED me out!! I mean really, really bad. Had I had the confidence then, we would have walked out. I mean I didn't even know this guy except for the 10 seconds before.

 

Let me get to know you first. At least a little bit longer than 10 seconds. I love to be touched and caressed, and it really doesn't take that long to warm up to me. I love men. But for hells sakes, let the women at least a few minutes to get to know you. A touch on the arm wouldn't have creeped me out, but the rubbing up and down my back and his hand, which I didn't see before he touched me was covered with black grease because he's a mechanic.

 

Like I said, we like this couple, but will never, ever play with them; Even if they were the last two people on earth.

[Swing*8701 887]

Susan here--- I think the 'lady' in question has no interest in a gentleman. Therefore, you would not be a good match, even just for sex. Always be true to who YOU are. It'll attract the people you are most suited to. As we say, 'Like' attracts 'Like'.

 

By the way, if a man just grabs my breast, he may find he has a new nickname, 'Lefty' !

[Newpants 21]

There's a term for men who are too forward and move too fast for a lady's comfort = "aggressive" and it can be the kiss of death in many circles.

 

There is another name for men who are not forward enough and aren't trying hard enough = "celibate":lol:

 

This whole issue I think is one of the biggest cruxes of being a male in the lifestyle. If you are too forward you are thought of as an aggressive boar and if you aren't forward enough, you are thought of as not interested at best or as a pussy at worst.

 

The challenge is to find the right balance with each individual lady that you are interested in. For some groping is just the beginning and for others a simple 'hello' is probably too much. It's really a case of the Platinum Rule and that is to treat people as THEY want to be treated. You just have to find out from each individual how they want to be treated.

 

The one thing to keep in mind is that it shouldn't be shocking to people if you are somewhat sexual and somewhat sexually oriented in a swinger venue. As long as it is respectfull and courtious and you are treating people as a whole human being and not just as a lifessupport system for a vagina, then even if they are not interested in playing, at least they will not be offended and think of you as a boar for making a respectfull and legitimate approach.

[thosetwo76 15]

My first thought when reading OP was that the lady you were speaking with wanted you to me a little more agressive...with her:)

 

IMHO, being a gentleman pays off most times. I was just thinking about this the other day....everytime we are in a situation, swinging or vanilla, give it about 5 minutes, and Mr 76 has a woman completely enthralled in a great conversation. A few more, (when not in a vanilla setting) and he's rounding first base, heading to second. I LOVE watching this (obviously:D ). How does he do it??? He just makes them feel beautiful, is a gentleman, looks them in the eye and gives them a lot of respect and attention. Maybe doesn't work on all women, but no one is going to have anything bad to say about you either

[funat40 16]

I think this is another one of those double standards where if a woman is a bit "forward", she's considered to be sexy and confident (and perhaps a little "slutty", which is usually a compliment.) But if a man does it, he's usually considered to be "pushy" or "aggressive."

 

However, I've also read comments from women here on this board who complain that the men they meet in the lifestyle are too docile and polite, and that it's a bit of a turn-on when a man shows immediate attraction/interest in them.

 

I think the bottom line for both men and women is physical attraction. If an attractive person makes an aggressive first move, it'll probably be received favorably. But if an unattractive person were to make the same move, he/she would be considered to be "too aggressive" and a major turn-off.

 

The safe play is always to play it cool and polite -- unless you know for certain the other person is really into you. The attractive person will usually remain a consideration, regardless of first impressions. And the unattractive person may become attractive once you get to know him/her.

[SecretAsianMan 348]

I try to make it clear if I'm interested - verbal compliments... joking with her... spending a few minutes chatting with her (more than "Oh gawd, you're hot! Wanna fuck?") - and will reach out to touch her hand & arm. No more than a shoulder if that's offered.

 

Always try to gauge the reaction ... feel for feedback if our hands are touching (is she touching back?) and proceed at her level of comfort. Sometimes it's hard to read and she's holding back and waiting for me to "seriously make a move" ... which has lead to some missed opportunities.

 

But... I'd honestly much rather be a gentleman who's missed a few opportunities than a "pushy / overly aggressive" fella who's scared 'em off.

[serenandsol 42]

I've thought a lot about this since we're new. I am very dominant...but not with my partner. I am totally turned off by the behavior that LFM2 describes. I do think it's a bit of a double standard, but I also think that it just depends on the person. I know women who love to be pursued. I'd rather be doing the pursuing. Being pursued feels cheesy to me...

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

Thanks all for the comments. I had never considered being polite as a negative, still don't and never will.

 

My wife and I have discussed the fact that I am very good at picking up clues across the room when I am a disinterested third party. I can usually, and accurately, determine who is attracted to whom. But I totally miss cues directed at me, even from my wife at times. I think it might be that I am so engaged in the conversation I miss the cues altogether.

 

I also tend to stay in "friend" or "chat" mode too long. The male half of one our our play couples is constantly poking fun at his wife and I for talking too much and not playing enough. Perhaps my style is giving the impression, with some, that I am not interested in taking things to the next level. That is usually not a problem as the females I am usually attracted too are confident and outgoing and have no issues making the first move. But there are a few ladies I am attracted too that clearly are more reserved, I had assumed that they were not interested in moving on to play, but it might be they are just waiting on me to take the first step.

 

I have determined to that I will make an effort to steer the conversation and activity toward a more sexual nature when I am attracted to a women, while still maintaining a proper decorum.

 

Now the trick is to figure out the cues as they pertain to me. Perhaps I need to think of it as an out of body experience, me looking on on me, to better read the cues, both positive and negative. The second half of the puzzle will be to figure out how I should take the first step in steering things toward the next level with more reserved ladies, while maintaining my comfort level in being a gentleman. Perhaps that is why I am drawn to aggressive women, it is so much easier to know where you stand, lol.

[SuperJast 83]

*shrugs*,..to each their own I guess. I never respond well to a aggressive male.

 

I like gentleman and shy guys. I will go out of my way to say hello to a cute one.

 

Say a shy guy takes the advice, and acts more aggressive. What then happens when he gets to the bedroom, and isn`t aggressive ? Yet she is expecting that ?

 

It`s better to just be yourself. The naturally aggressive men can then attract the more submissive bedmates who like that kind of guy.

The shy guys and gentleman, just be yourselves. You`ll end up with bed partners more suitable to your style, rather then feeling like you have to put on a performance.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

*shrugs*,..to each their own I guess. I never respond well to a aggressive male.

 

I like gentleman and shy guys. I will go out of my way to say hello to a cute one.

 

Say a shy guy takes the advice, and acts more aggressive. What then happens when he gets to the bedroom, and isn`t aggressive ? Yet she is expecting that ?

 

It`s better to just be yourself. The naturally aggressive men can then attract the more submissive bedmates who like that kind of guy.

The shy guys and gentleman, just be yourselves. You`ll end up with bed partners more suitable to your style, rather then feeling like you have to put on a performance.

 

I totally agree and will not change myself. I am not shy at all, I just tend to miss cues and wait for the women to make the first move. I tend to think if she does not outwardly show she wants to go further than conversation, then she is not interested in me sexually. Which I realize is pretty stupid, because that is probably what she is thinking about me.

 

What I am talking about is being more observant and understanding that, at times, I need to take the first step. That does not mean I will be groping women or being rude, just more direct that I would like to take the next step with her.

 

In fact to your point, I should be a bit more "aggressive". Frankly, I am not very vocal in the bedroom but and much more outgoing and adventurous sexually. If I am giving off the impression I am shy and reserved in the bedroom, then I am sending the wrong signals.

[slevin 1,374]

*shrugs*,..to each their own I guess. I never respond well to a aggressive male.

 

I like gentleman and shy guys. I will go out of my way to say hello to a cute one.

 

Say a shy guy takes the advice, and acts more aggressive. What then happens when he gets to the bedroom, and isn`t aggressive ? Yet she is expecting that ?

 

It`s better to just be yourself. The naturally aggressive men can then attract the more submissive bedmates who like that kind of guy.

The shy guys and gentleman, just be yourselves. You`ll end up with bed partners more suitable to your style, rather then feeling like you have to put on a performance.

 

There is a very big difference between being aggressive and letting your sexual interest be known. Even a shy guy should be letting his sexual intent be known, otherwise even women who like shy guys aren't going to take much notice. Add to that, women who will seek out shy guys and make the moves are quite rare. I don't think anyone would ever tell you to change who you are, but I think you can take the feedback and adjust some of how you handle these situations.

 

When sitting with a woman you are attracted to and talking, start doing two things:

 

- While talking to her imagine what it would be like for her to be

- Start touching her in innocent and friendly ways and gradually escalate to more intimate touching.

 

By thinking about her doing a sexual act you will start feeling that sexual energy. Without sounding too new age, that is something that the women will pick up on. Even when you're having a non-sexual conversation.

 

By escalating your touch you start to get a sense of whether she is interested as well. If she reciprocates your friendly touches, or is obviously enjoying it, then you can escalate that. Go from touching her shoulder while talking to holding her hand, or leaving your touch a bit longer than usual. Put your arm around her etc. As you both get comfortable with the touch you can become more intimate. I don't mean grabbing her breats or checking if she is wearing underwear though. I mean touching her leg, arm around her waist, touching her hair, light kissing etc. This isn't an instant thing as LFM described, but something you do as you both get comfortable during the conversation. Even a shy guy can do this and still be himself

 

Not every woman is going to respond to it, but not every woman will be interested in you either. I think it's still very respectful and appropriate to do.

[SuperJast 83]

If I am giving off the impression I am shy and reserved in the bedroom, then I am sending the wrong signals.

 

I will try and be more clear.

 

You called yourself a gentleman. I just happen to say I prefer gentleman, and shy guys. Offering a womans perspective from the other side.

 

I then went on to use both types as a example.

 

From reading the posts, and knowing human nature, I could see where this might go, and just wanted to offer a differing perspective. There are a lot of really great men out there, that already feel a pressure to perform, or be a certain way.

 

I just want to give a nod of appreciation to the shy guys and the gentleman who are their sexy selves. So many times we see on a forum like this,..(Usually after a weekend has passed.) where someone is asking themselves and the forum, "What happened?" Some guy/gal SEEMED to be so into me, then we got to bed, and poof, things went so wrong.'.....

 

A lot of this would be eliminated if people didnt put on a performance beforehand.

 

As for you personally, just be true to you. If you think you want to step it up a notch, and it will excite you to try a new side of yourself, then go for it!

[Mr.GeekChic 27]

I too appreciate all the comments here. This is basically the discussion I was trying to generate with my "aggressive vs. expressive" thread.

 

It ended up going in a different direction, but the replies it got are very helpful and I think it's also relevant to this topic, so I'll link it below:

[sweet_tna 680]

To thine own self be true. There's a reason that phrase is so often quoted. Shy or gregarious, I always prefer the guys I play with to be themselves. If he's shy and I know he's interested (even if I have to be brash and ask him outright), I have no problems taking the lead. I know I'm not the only woman like that out there, so just keep being the gentleman than you are, and you'll have no regrets.

 

=)

[MrsCoupleerotic 15]

I have to chuckle at some of the responses, as it seems the common assumption is that CoupleErotic 22 is shy. I'm his wife & lol you couldn't be much further from the truth. In the vanilla world he is outgoing and comfortable in pretty much any social and business situation. In fact in the boardroom he is considered quite aggressive. He is always courteous and a gentleman, but shy is never a word I would use to describe him. In fact we laugh about the fact that our roles seem to be reversed in the 2 different worlds. I am more reserved and shy in the vanilla world. I am the quiet one at cocktail parties and events. I mix and mingle, but am usually not the one to approach others to strike up a conversation, unlike my husband. However, in the non-vanilla world if I am interested in someone, I have no fear of approaching them to strike up a conversation. Hubby thinks I am quite assertive at times and do not waste time in going after what I want. In the non-vanilla world, he is not aggressive. From my perspective he is a man that is out of the practice of hitting on a woman & picking up on whether she is interested or not. Until the past year, he had been out of the dating game for over 20 years. In looking back at when we first met and his dating style back then, I think his style has not really changed. He had it very easy in that he was actively pursued and it was not difficult to figure out when a woman was interested.

 

I think that in the non-vanilla world he feels he is not good at reading the cues, especially the subtle ones. I agree that he is far too courteous in some situations, although that is one of the things I like about him and that attracted me to him. We were recently at a different party. It was our first opportunity to meet with a very nice couple that we had chatted with for some time. He finds the wife very attractive, exciting and sexy. She introduced him to some of her friends at the party and in the process of being polite, he missed some opportunities of spending more time with her, which was his primary goal. He has difficulties ending conversations for fear of being impolite. He did not want to make a bad impression on her friends. He was disappointed to not get to know her better and afterward found out from the hubby that she felt he was not interested. This of course, was not the case.

 

I will say that once interest from the woman has been made clear, he has no problem. It is the initial discovery period/dating ritual of finding out if you are interested in each other that is the problem.

 

Just a note from my perspective...I prefer the gentleman. If a man were to approach me at a party and grope me, it is not likely we would end up together. I like to be treated with respect and courtesy. I am sure some women like being groped, but I prefer a man that has a bit more class. I adore to be touched and a man with a sensual hand is a big turn on. I just prefer it in private.

[sweet_tna 680]

It's good to hear from you, MrsCoupleerotic. And hopefully, you've had a chance to talk to that couple and let them know your hubby really is interested in her to that he doesn't miss another opportunity with her.

 

=)

[sahajacpl 95]

I have always felt that not groping a women and being a respectful gentleman was a good thing, but am I being "too much of a gentleman" in these situations, as the lady said? I sure would like to hear some others opinions, particularly the women out there.

 

Never grope a lady on first sight is our rule. Talk to her, get a feel for what her interests are and how far she is willing to go sexually. Being too timid does not help and being too aggressive is a kiss of death. All this takes is judgement and when you get the good vibes you may even run your fingers through her hair in the back of her neck indicating you may want to fuck her. Women are varied in as much as how they expect a "nice" guy to approach her if he wants to have sex with her.

 

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

In looking back at when we first met and his dating style back then, I think his style has not really changed. He had it very easy in that he was actively pursued and it was not difficult to figure out when a woman was interested.

 

First, yeah!!! She is posting!

 

Second, she left out the fact that I had to pursue her vigorously. She had zero interest in me, did not like athletes at all, and turned me away more times than I care to remember. But I was persistent, I guess I broke down her will to fight, lol Thank goodness she finally gave up!! Love ya honey!!

[MrsCoupleerotic 15]

I happen to be glad you never gave up sweetie.

I love you too!

[jodi 15]

i think a man should be a gentleman, a gentle man. isn't it the woman that gives the cues anyway? if i had to give advice, i'd say to try to be more alert to cuesthat a female is giving you, e.g. touching your shoulder, smiling alot, flipping her hair back, . flirting basically. but grabbing butts and boobs, definately not. i wouldn't like it.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

i think a man should be a gentleman, a gentle man. isn't it the woman that gives the cues anyway? if i had to give advice, i'd say to try to be more alert to cuesthat a female is giving you, e.g. touching your shoulder, smiling alot, flipping her hair back, . flirting basically. but grabbing butts and boobs, definately not. i wouldn't like it.

 

I think reading the cues is something I have to re-learn.

 

Ironically, and thankfully, this is our biggest issue in swinging. Which is certainly much better than dealing with jealousy issues or relationship problems, so I am not complaining.

 

I stated in another thread, that when I first turned myself loose to look at other women sexually, (my wife turned me loose long before I turned myself loose, ) I reverted back to thinking like I was when I dated, looking for the perfect match - i.e. measuring for potential mates. I couldn't find people I liked easily. It dawned on me that although I was not looking for a mate, my selection process was the same as if I was. I had to rethink looking for playmates and shifted my mindset. I went from looking for "perfect for life" to "perfect for tonight". I hope that doesn't sound crass, but finding someone you are happy to have sex with is far different from finding someone you are happy to grow old with.

 

Now my challenge is to pick up on and understand the cues. I have given it much thought. MrsCouple is right, I am just out of practice.

 

I have never thought of it as flirting, but I guess I have no problem flirting, based on how others define it. I have always chatted and kidded around with women, touching their hand or arm lightly, and If I know them well hugging, giving a kiss on the cheek and giving neck massages. But "flirting" for me has been innocent social banter for all my life, it had no sexual intent. When a women flirts back I think nothing of it because did not have any meaning to it beyond being friendly. As I write this down I can see how it could be seen as sexual, but I have never had any women take issue with it. I have only known two women that thought that type of behavior was a problem and they let everyone know it up front. Ironically one of them used to come up and give me hugs all the time. Before swinging, if a women became overt, I simple extricated myself from the situation and toned down the flirting on my part.

 

The cues that lustylearning and SecretAsianMan (and perhaps others) mentioned that women use sail right past me because I see them often and think nothing of it. I think it is particularly so in the South, it is my experience from traveling that Southern women are much more likely to touch you (in a vanilla setting) than their Northern counter parts. The West coast seems to fall somewhere in the middle. It is not uncommon for women I meet to touch me on the hand, arm, hip, back or even give me a hug and run their fingers through my hair. The same is true for light laughter and hair flipping that others mentioned. And no I don't think there is much to women running their fingers through my hair because my wife says both my son and I have hair that makes women want to do that, I just chalk it up to some women like a thick head of hair, nothing more. I am cool with it if they want to do that, but I have never reead anything into it.

 

I guess what I am saying is I see those same exact cues in the vanilla world and don't think anything sexual about it, it is just being friendly. So when I see the cues in a sexually charged atmosphere of swinging I still think nothing of them, I still see it as just flirting with no bearing on their desire to have sex.

 

So, ladies in particular, am I correct. Should I be seeing this type of flirting as positive cues to playing or are they just flirting like I have always thought? Or should I bee looking for the more overt cues or outright "hey, let's play" from women in the LS? And I guess the flip side is, have I been totally clueless to sexual advances in the vanilla world? LOL, in any case I guess I am a bit clueless.

 

I am kind of excited I may have this figured out. I feel like a kid at Christmas. If tomorrow was not a work day, I would wake my wife up to discuss this right now! Lol.