I feel the friendship is gone...and the guy used my wife

[NH603 38]

So my wife and I had a good swinging relationship with another couple. After a year the sex and friendship stopped on their end. No time from them, they had prior plans, couldn't see us, etc. So for the past 8 months since we saw them last, they never made 1 attempt to contact us. Even as friends. No problem, we get the hint.

 

My wife ended up going to a party where we knew they would be there via mutual friends. No problem, and I stayed home with the kids. Well my wife got tipsy and she had sex with the husband.

 

Now if we had a normal health swinging relationship and there was an existing relationship, this wouldn't even phase me. In fact, I would be asking for some 1 on 1 time with his wife. But where they refused to do anything with us or even contact us for so long, I feel as though the guy was just using my wife. My wife disagrees as she still thinks there is a friendship there for all 4 of us. No, there are no thoughts of cheating here. We both work from home so I see/hear everything.

 

I am livid. When we starting swinging, we all agreed it would be just between all of us. I know for a fact that they are now open swingers. I just feel if the sex and friendship is gone and they won't communicate with us, why should any of us have sex with each other without talking about what had been going on for 8 months?

 

Thoughts?

[Rivertour 51]

Of course it is a matter of "to each their own". I'm not sure if we would have went to a party inidvidually. Open swinging leads to more opportunity to strain relationships with whole new sets of issues. This issue sounds minor or course, but a couple that plays together, stays together in our book. So much less second guessing if you are both there. IMHO of course.

[it'sso 198]

I think it best that your wife not drink alcohol at parties where you aren't present.

The guy was just being what he is. Your problem is with your wife.

my opinion only

[two4youinswva 3,068]

I am livid.

 

Are you mad at anyone in particular, or everyone involved in the situation?

[NH603 38]

I am upset at my wife, but we will move on.

 

I am upset with the other guy because he just took advantage of a drunk situation. The original agreement and ground rules was a monogamous relationship founded in friendship. Friendship is long gone, at least to any decent level aside the occasional group party twice a year. He is swinging with others. So if everything we set for ground rules no longer exists, why should anyone be having sex with each other?

 

I appreciate the replys here. Just so confusing.

[Alura 2,774]

I think there's far too much going on here to decide just what the problem may be, although I do agree that alcohol is at least part of the problem.

 

Have y'all asked the other couple why they have been so scarce for the past eight months? It's amazing what can be learned by asking.

 

Also, I believe the downside of swinging with just one other couple can lead to boredom after a while. That's the way we did it, but I'm reminded of a time when driving home after a playdate I asked Mrs. Alura, "How was the sex tonight?"

 

"Just like ol' married folks," she replied. "I came and was ready to go to sleep." That may be the reason they've not called.

 

Alura

[two4youinswva 3,068]

Do I understand this correctly, that the four of you were in an exclusive swinging relationship, with no swinging outside the foursome?

 

If so, did your wife go to the party with the hopes of seeing this couple and find out what was going on with the long absence?

[LFM2 1,482]

Like was said before, alcohol should be a no-no in swinging. It's so easy for stuff to happen when drinking and inhibitions are so low. Even though they had sex, it's really funny that she didn't say anything to them about no contact for so long.

 

I can truly see why you'd be livid, but, in our swinging lives, if one can't go the other doesn't leave, either. This is just one of our policies. We just don't go anywhere without the other. It's worked for us. I've told him to go to parties alone, but he won't. We've just become like one person when it comes to swinging.

 

I have no advice for you, but maybe you could call your friend and ask him why they've been shy for so many months and that you heard, from your wife, they were at the party and they hooked up. I'd love hear his response. I don't have a problem asking questions among friends. Maybe there is a shred of life when it comes to reviving your relationship between you guys -- I don't know. Hopefully, things work out with you two. Fix that first before you go swinging again.

 

Good luck!!

[sweet_tna 680]

Here's the thing. You're asking if you should be upset, but you already know that you are. What you should or shouldn't feel is irrelevant and you now need to deal with what is.

 

What I'm getting out of your post is that you had an exclusive arrangement with this other couple, and for one reason or another, they more or less disappeared. This, I think, is issue number one. Despite your claim that it's, "no problem," I think their withdrawl bothered you. And that's fine, if you'd been able to talk to them and find out what was going on.

 

The next issue to arise is that your wife attended a party at which she knew this other couple would be present. Why did she go? Do you two typically attend parties/play separately? If you had no issues with her going to the party, even knowing the other couple would be there, what were your expectations for her at this party?

 

And of course, that your wife drank too much is another problem. It's never a good idea to drink a lot at a lifestyle party in the first place, but especially if your partner isn't with you. That said, are you sure it's a matter of her drinking too much? I mean, if it were me who ran into a couple that dropped us like a hot potato, the first thing I'd be doing is asking what the heck happened, not hopping into the sack with him . . .

 

And if this couple are open swingers now, then what else could be expected of him/them? I grant you, if your wife was tipsy, they should have avoided play, but unless she was obviously drunk, then they might not have realized that she was crossing a line.

 

Last, but not least, I have to ask with whom are you angry? Him for taking advantage of your wife? Your wife for having sex with him? Whichever it is, I hope you're able to get things sorted through.

[NH603 38]

Like was said before, alcohol should be a no-no in swinging. It's so easy for stuff to happen when drinking and inhibitions are so low. Even though they had sex, it's really funny that she didn't say anything to them about no contact for so long.

 

I can truly see why you'd be livid, but, in our swinging lives, if one can't go the other doesn't leave, either. This is just one of our policies. We just don't go anywhere without the other. It's worked for us. I've told him to go to parties alone, but he won't. We've just become like one person when it comes to swinging.

 

I have no advice for you, but maybe you could call your friend and ask him why they've been shy for so many months and that you heard, from your wife, they were at the party and they hooked up. I'd love hear his response. I don't have a problem asking questions among friends. Maybe there is a shred of life when it comes to reviving your relationship between you guys -- I don't know. Hopefully, things work out with you two. Fix that first before you go swinging again.

 

Good luck!!

 

I tried to call him, a few times. No response to texts either. I eventually face booked a message, which I didnt want to do, but I had to vent after 12 hours. His wife responded only stating she thought were were friends because we have been invited to some group parties they offered. They apparently they apparently think this friendship.

 

Why they dont want to be with us? Not 100 % sure, but who knows. They are extremely social people and slightly younger than us with no kids. ( mid 30's vs 28 ). Regardless of the reason, the fact is the friendship is nothing like it was.

[NH603 38]

Do I understand this correctly, that the four of you were in an exclusive swinging relationship, with no swinging outside the foursome?

 

If so, did your wife go to the party with the hopes of seeing this couple and find out what was going on with the long absence?

 

100 % exclusive, and they were the ones to suggest it & we welcomed it. I doubt she went there to talk to them about it. My wife doesnt exactly view the friendship the same way I do. She thinks they are good friends even though they ignore us because they are "cool" when together and very friendly.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

100 % exclusive, and they were the ones to suggest it & we welcomed it. I doubt she went there to talk to them about it.

 

So, what was your wife's reason for going to the party solo? Just for the social aspect, or was she looking to hook up?

[NH603 38]

Here's the thing. You're asking if you should be upset, but you already know that you are. What you should or shouldn't feel is irrelevant and you now need to deal with what is.

 

What I'm getting out of your post is that you had an exclusive arrangement with this other couple, and for one reason or another, they more or less disappeared. This, I think, is issue number one. Despite your claim that it's, "no problem," I think their withdrawl bothered you. And that's fine, if you'd been able to talk to them and find out what was going on.

 

Sure, we both liked them. They were good people. I do miss them, but I am the type that can and move on. To many levels, I have... but this happened and I was already in the "i have moved on phase", so I just didnt expect sex.

 

The next issue to arise is that your wife attended a party at which she knew this other couple would be present. Why did she go? Do you two typically attend parties/play separately? If you had no issues with her going to the party, even knowing the other couple would be there, what were your expectations for her at this party?

We do go separate, mostly for baby sitting reasons. She went because it was a party with several friends. Expectations were nothing and it was actually brought up. This party was big, many family members and kids were there so it wasnt a thought. But the party went super late, kids left, and things got more TV MA.

 

 

And of course, that your wife drank too much is another problem. It's never a good idea to drink a lot at a lifestyle party in the first place, but especially if your partner isn't with you. That said, are you sure it's a matter of her drinking too much? I mean, if it were me who ran into a couple that dropped us like a hot potato, the first thing I'd be doing is asking what the heck happened, not hopping into the sack with him . . .

She doesnt view it the same way as me. She still thinks they were good friends.

 

And if this couple are open swingers now, then what else could be expected of him/them? I grant you, if your wife was tipsy, they should have avoided play, but unless she was obviously drunk, then they might not have realized that she was crossing a line.

 

Last, but not least, I have to ask with whom are you angry? Him for taking advantage of your wife? Your wife for having sex with him? Whichever it is, I hope you're able to get things sorted through.

 

I hope so, but I am upset at him and my wife. I do have to blame myself here to some degree. I didnt specifically state to her, hey, if you get a chance to have sex I would prefer that you didnt. But I am upset at him. The exclusive swinging relationship that we all agreed to is gone. I was part of that agreement. Times changes, and they are open swingers being with whomever. But I didnt agree to that, so to drag either of us into that lifestyle when not all parties agreed to it is wrong in my book. Open vs exclusive is a totally different type of swinging to me. Open means you dont care, have fun with whomever. Exclusive mean there is less to worry about, stds, etc.

 

 

I am not raging mad like I want to side kick him in the ribs, but I do just want to vent. So far, nothing there as he wont call, email, or text me. This alone tells me that he realizes this was wrong to some degree.

 

Sadly one part I forgot to mention was protection. My wife cannot have any more kids, that was taken care of. So because of the exclusive nature back in the day and we knew the other couple were clean, a condom for her/him was not a big deal for me. Now I specifically told her recently that I dont like that in general and if we ever did get a chance to get back with them that I want her to use one. Guess what she forgot to do, thanks to alcohol.

[NH603 38]

So, what was your wife's reason for going to the party solo? Just for the social aspect, or was she looking to hook up?

 

Pure social. Not the first or last time.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

Pure social. Not the first or last time.

 

Was this agreed on by the two of you before she went to the party?

-If so, then yes, I'd be upset with her. If that was the agreement, then all it took was a "no thanks" for this situation to have been avoided.

 

-If it wasn't agreed on, and just assumed, then I'd have to give her the benefit of the doubt. She sees things with this couple differently than you do, and that is not insignificant.

 

Either way, I'd hold off on either of you going solo until you are both 100% sure, and on the same page, as to what you want out of swinging, and you both are sure you can stick to that agreement.

 

Best of luck to each of you.

[NH603 38]

Was this agreed on by the two of you before she went to the party?

-If so, then yes, I'd be upset with her. If that was the agreement, then all it took was a "no thanks" for this situation to have been avoided.

 

-If it wasn't agreed on, and just assumed, then I'd have to give her the benefit of the doubt. She sees things with this couple differently than you do, and that is not insignificant.

 

Either way, I'd hold off on either of you going solo until you are both 100% sure, and on the same page, as to what you want out of swinging, and you both are sure you can stick to that agreement.

 

Best of luck to each of you.

 

Well like I said it was discussed that it could happen, but most likely wouldnt.

 

Thank you for all the replies.

[Pleasure King 16]

Yes you certainly have every right to be upset, with this "friend" as well as your wife. Even if you had sex with his wife previously he was undoubtedly using both of you under the guise of having a couple/couple relationship to get your wife into bed while shunting you aside. And I speak from experience from this having gone through something very similar. I do believe this happens more than some are willing to admit.

 

How you deal with what your wife did is obviously up to you and your relationship. Just because she was sloshed doesn't let her off the hook. Especially with you not there she needed to have exercised greater self-control, knowing that alcohol and swinging are a bad combination. Some will say that liquor is the ultimate truth serum, uncovering someones innermost desires. I would say that rings true in this case.

 

What I don't get is if the situation were reversed and this thread were started by your wife. If it were you going to the party alone and ending up in bed with the other woman people would be all over you. It simply has to go both ways; the rewards and responsibilities of swinging, as well as owning up to the transgressions.

[NH603 38]

Yes you certainly have every right to be upset, with this "friend" as well as your wife. Even if you had sex with his wife previously he was undoubtedly using both of you under the guise of having a couple/couple relationship to get your wife into bed while shunting you aside. And I speak from experience from this having gone through something very similar. I do believe this happens more than some are willing to admit.

 

How you deal with what your wife did is obviously up to you and your relationship. Just because she was sloshed doesn't let her off the hook. Especially with you not there she needed to have exercised greater self-control, knowing that alcohol and swinging are a bad combination. Some will say that liquor is the ultimate truth serum, uncovering someones innermost desires. I would say that rings true in this case.

 

What I don't get is if the situation were reversed and this thread were started by your wife. If it were you going to the party alone and ending up in bed with the other woman people would be all over you. It simply has to go both ways; the rewards and responsibilities of swinging, as well as owning up to the transgressions.

 

Looking back there have been times when she was with just them, or planned that way. Both wives are bi, so that 3 some fantasy has happened. Once with my wife and just her, but more with just them. Always seemed to work out that way now that I look back at it.

 

But what does it say about him that my "friend" knows I am upset, and wont even contact me back to talk about it? Right or wrong, a true friend would contact the other guy and talk, apologize, or at least give his side of the story to tell me that maybe I am wrong. At this point I need to even question the integrity of them, let alone any friendship. Do I really want to get involved here with someone that wont call me back?

[Pleasure King 16]

Looking back there have been times when she was with just them, or planned that way. Both wives are bi, so that 3 some fantasy has happened. Once with my wife and just her, but more with just them. Always seemed to work out that way now that I look back at it.

 

But what does it say about him that my "friend" knows I am upset, and wont even contact me back to talk about it? Right or wrong, a true friend would contact the other guy and talk, apologize, or at least give his side of the story to tell me that maybe I am wrong. At this point I need to even question the integrity of them, let alone any friendship. Do I really want to get involved here with someone that wont call me back?

 

 

It shows me that this "friend" is only that to the extent he can get his rocks off with your wife. No you do not want to get involved with someone who won't at the very least give you a slick air-brushed story of what happened.

To me it wouldn't be out of line at all to tell your wife to have no contact with either one of them from now on.

[ClosetSwinger 112]

My hubby has offered to let me go to a swing club/party without him due to sitter issues in the past. The last time we thought we had lost our sitter and he told me to go and would give me rules. We knew who would be there and he told me the men I was allowed to play with (ones we both knew and trusted) and I was given permission to play with whatever women I wanted. Our sitter ended up coming and so we both ended up going together.

 

That being said I would not have played with anyone NOT APPROVED by my husband ahead of time.

 

If I knew my husband had any sort of ill feelings towards a couple I would not play with either of them.

 

I think your wife is to blame here, that being said.....you should have set CLEAR boundaries..i.e...."DO NOT PLAY WITH XYZ". If there is even a chance my husband and I are VERY CLEAR, CRYSTAL CLEAR with each other and sometimes I will double and triple check before I do something JUST TO MAKE SURE we both are on the same page. This keeps us from ending up in arguments over what was okay and what was not.

 

COMMUNICATION IS SO IMPORTANT.

[WildMiCouple 325]

NH603, here's my take on this whole thing:

Your friends, who you had originally had an exclusive relationship with (at their request), probably wanted to expand to playing with others. Perhaps it even happened while they were "exclusive" with you. Maybe thinking that you wouldn't approve of their playing with others, they just sort of left you behind in their new journeys. Obviously not writing you guys off completely as you recieved their party invites when they had them.

 

Now as far as the the other night. I'm not gonna accept the "too much to drink" excuse from your wife. Having a previous relationship makes it very easy to slip back into old ways. I'm betting it didn't take much coaxing from him to convince your wife........and I certainly wouldn't rule out her coaxing him into bed Alchohol is a very convenient excuse here. Now, the unreturned phone calls does leave a bad taste. This points to him realizing he had pretty poor judgement in bedding your wife. Doesn't excuse him from manning up and talking with you though.

 

If you and your wife still think there is a friendship to be salvaged here, know that it will not be an exclusive one. But look at it this way......if you want to be introduced to more possible playmates, rekindling your friendship with them would certainly lead to that

 

Good luck,

Brett

[lustylearning 705]

Wow. Wife effed up. Been there, done that. You'll both work through it. My question regarding the other guy would be, was it reasonable for him to believe that it would be okay for him to have sex with her. If you can answer "yes," then I suggest you check yourself before reaming him. Not everyone has the same boundaries, and it's easy to not stop and question when you've already been intimate with someone.

 

You've been hurt and you're angry. That's the key issue. You can always communicate to the other guy, "hey dude, that was a one off and outside of our normal boundaries," but it may not help get rid of what you're feeling. I haven't read through every word in this thread, but I'd respectfully suggest maybe your wife didn't realize this would be as big of a problem as it is (since they've done it before). No doubt she knows now.

 

Please don't let this detour your communication. These ugly feelings will pass if you can work through them with honesty and respect.

[The Fuse 1,012]

Looking back there have been times when she was with just them, or planned that way. Both wives are bi, so that 3 some fantasy has happened. Once with my wife and just her, but more with just them. Always seemed to work out that way now that I look back at it.

Hmmm.

 

Keeping score is not really a good thing, but this raises a question in my mind. Is it possible that the other wife was not all that interested in having sex with you anymore? Not that you're not an absolute stud but these things do happen. After a relatively long period of an exclusive relationship, she may have wanted to branch out.

 

But what does it say about him that my "friend" knows I am upset, and wont even contact me back to talk about it? Right or wrong, a true friend would contact the other guy and talk, apologize, or at least give his side of the story to tell me that maybe I am wrong. At this point I need to even question the integrity of them, let alone any friendship. Do I really want to get involved here with someone that wont call me back?

 

I don't think anyone has said this in this thread either, but after thinking about this and trying to put myself in your place, it occurred to me that part of your irritation with your friends is that you feel rejected. Nothing unreasonable about feeling that way, considering that they dropped you.

 

You had an exclusive relationship with them and then they just dropped you, avoided your attempts at making plans and didn't respond to your efforts to contact them. In my opinion, if they respected you, they would have at least said something about wanting things to change. So on top of feeling rejected, you feel disregarded. Well, it seems to me like you are perfectly reasonable if this is the case. Actions speak more loudly than words. They might be cool in public but they have acted poorly toward you in ways that are important. The husband not responding to you after what happened, is another sign of disrespect in my opinion.

 

Here's another thought: you said your wife and you feel differently about the state of your friendship with them. I don't mean to be bringing up the worst things all the time, and I apologize in advance, but: is it possible that she does have a different friendship with them than you do? One that she may not mention to you? Sometimes if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck... you already said that even when the four of you were "on", that you were most often the one who sat out a threesome.

 

I would be really interested to hear what your wife has to say after the two of you talk about how you feel about what happened, and any new rules you may have for her in the future about this couple. I don't think you've said much about how she feels except that she still thinks they are friends.

[sweet_tna 680]

I hope so, but I am upset at him and my wife. I do have to blame myself here to some degree. I didnt specifically state to her, hey, if you get a chance to have sex I would prefer that you didnt. But I am upset at him. The exclusive swinging relationship that we all agreed to is gone. I was part of that agreement. Times changes, and they are open swingers being with whomever. But I didnt agree to that, so to drag either of us into that lifestyle when not all parties agreed to it is wrong in my book. Open vs exclusive is a totally different type of swinging to me. Open means you dont care, have fun with whomever. Exclusive mean there is less to worry about, stds, etc.

 

 

I am not raging mad like I want to side kick him in the ribs, but I do just want to vent. So far, nothing there as he wont call, email, or text me. This alone tells me that he realizes this was wrong to some degree.

 

Sadly one part I forgot to mention was protection. My wife cannot have any more kids, that was taken care of. So because of the exclusive nature back in the day and we knew the other couple were clean, a condom for her/him was not a big deal for me. Now I specifically told her recently that I dont like that in general and if we ever did get a chance to get back with them that I want her to use one. Guess what she forgot to do, thanks to alcohol.

 

I don't know what the other hubby is thinking, but his continued lack of contact suggests to me that they simply do not wish to be friends with you. This could be for any number of reasons, but there are those in the lifestyle that don't feel you have to be friends to have sex. It could also be likely that the wife, for whatever reason, just wasn't into playing with you. They might have decided it was simpler to move on and find other people who are more compatible.

 

At any rate, the best case scenario is that it was a simple miscommunication between you and your wife. She views the friendship with this couple differently than you, and not having been specifically told this particular couple was off limits to her, she messed up.

 

Worst case is that she understood very clearly how you felt about this guy/couple and tumbled anyway. "Oh, I was drunk, and I didn't know what I was doing," is a very common excuse when swinging spouses screw up.

 

Either way, I think it's time to put any and all swinging activities on hold 'till you and the wife get back on the same page. As for this other couple? If you feel they're going in a direction with which you're uncomfortable, I'd just let sleeping dogs lie.

[exploringRM 305]

I'm a little confused at exactly what the problem is. I understand you feel hurt/ignored by the lack of interaction with the other couple. That's an undercurrent to this whole thing. But your wife went to a party, I assume a swing party, what was her intention? If she had played with another guy, perhaps one you didn't know, would you still be as upset?

 

Regarding the other couple, I suspect the wanted to branch out to experience other couples. Did your relationship with them include more than sex and friendship; was it poly?

[lizandtom 512]

You knew there would be swingers at this mixed party, and that the temptation for your wife to get into something may be there. Would you be so upset if she had gotten with some other couple instead?

 

I think you're perfectly justified in feeling hurt that all friend attempts went unanswered for 8 months, then when the chance arose your wife and they got it on. I would also have a WTF attitude because on one hand you think there's no interest at all, then this happens.

 

I also have to think that you have some responsibility in this by the fact that this couple HAS invited you to their parties, yet you two declined.

 

I think, only to a small degree, that you have been too rigid in not accepting what has changed here, namely that they got much more comfortable with the lifestyle to see many couples, and went so far as to open their circle up to include many couples and throw parties. As sucky as this was, I think you have to do what you can to put it past you, and definitely have a heart to heart with your wife explaining exactly how you feel. Things change, you'll probably encounter this couple at parties again, but by no means should your focus be on them. As the song goes, 'lust the ones your with,' meaning whoever you're clicking with at that time.

[NH603 38]

I'm a little confused at exactly what the problem is. I understand you feel hurt/ignored by the lack of interaction with the other couple. That's an undercurrent to this whole thing. But your wife went to a party, I assume a swing party, what was her intention? If she had played with another guy, perhaps one you didn't know, would you still be as upset?

 

Regarding the other couple, I suspect the wanted to branch out to experience other couples. Did your relationship with them include more than sex and friendship; was it poly?

 

It wasnt a swing party, but good question. The relationship was just friendship and sex. Nothing beyond that.

[NH603 38]

Wow. Wife effed up. Been there, done that. You'll both work through it. My question regarding the other guy would be, was it reasonable for him to believe that it would be okay for him to have sex with her. If you can answer "yes," then I suggest you check yourself before reaming him. Not everyone has the same boundaries, and it's easy to not stop and question when you've already been intimate with someone.

 

You've been hurt and you're angry. That's the key issue. You can always communicate to the other guy, "hey dude, that was a one off and outside of our normal boundaries," but it may not help get rid of what you're feeling. I haven't read through every word in this thread, but I'd respectfully suggest maybe your wife didn't realize this would be as big of a problem as it is (since they've done it before). No doubt she knows now.

 

Please don't let this detour your communication. These ugly feelings will pass if you can work through them with honesty and respect.

 

Reasonable? I want to say yes only because of history. But I strongly say no because we were no longer exclusive... deal is off. I wasnt there to ask either. So based on this, he was just thinking with his dick

[NH603 38]

You knew there would be swingers at this mixed party, and that the temptation for your wife to get into something may be there. Would you be so upset if she had gotten with some other couple instead?

 

Without asking me? Yes. This has come up before as a potential WHAT IF. We need to communicate and all people involved need to be on the same page.

[NH603 38]

Well sent an email to just him explaining that a friend would have called me and been concerned that I was concerned. Feel pretty good about this after venting even though there was not much response back. I know they got the messages

[Newpants 21]

Hmmm.

 

Keeping score is not really a good thing, but this raises a question in my mind. Is it possible that the other wife was not all that interested in having sex with you anymore? Not that you're not an absolute stud but these things do happen. After a relatively long period of an exclusive relationship, she may have wanted to branch out.

 

 

 

I don't think anyone has said this in this thread either, but after thinking about this and trying to put myself in your place, it occurred to me that part of your irritation with your friends is that you feel rejected. Nothing unreasonable about feeling that way, considering that they dropped you.

 

You had an exclusive relationship with them and then they just dropped you, avoided your attempts at making plans and didn't respond to your efforts to contact them. In my opinion, if they respected you, they would have at least said something about wanting things to change. So on top of feeling rejected, you feel disregarded. Well, it seems to me like you are perfectly reasonable if this is the case. Actions speak more loudly than words. They might be cool in public but they have acted poorly toward you in ways that are important. The husband not responding to you after what happened, is another sign of disrespect in my opinion.

 

Here's another thought: you said your wife and you feel differently about the state of your friendship with them. I don't mean to be bringing up the worst things all the time, and I apologize in advance, but: is it possible that she does have a different friendship with them than you do? One that she may not mention to you? Sometimes if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck... you already said that even when the four of you were "on", that you were most often the one who sat out a threesome.

 

I would be really interested to hear what your wife has to say after the two of you talk about how you feel about what happened, and any new rules you may have for her in the future about this couple. I don't think you've said much about how she feels except that she still thinks they are friends.

 

This is EXACTLY what I was thinking, I was just trying to come up with the words to described it and The Fuse said it better than I could.

 

I think a lot of your reaction is that you were thinking they were brushing you two off as a couple but once your wife was there by herself they (or at least he) was glad to to head off to the bedroom with her alone and she was happy to accomidate them without you. In other words they weren't brushing you two off as a couple, they were brushing YOU off but were happy to accomidate your wife alone. OUCH!! You definately came up on the short end of the stick and are feeling rejected and as The Fuse said, Disregarded. Yeah, I think you have a right to feel hurt.

 

I wish I had some better cheer-up news and message to offer but I'm afraid I really don't because I am not buying this alcohol as an excuse story either. Unless your wife was drunk to the point of unconsciousness and he raped her, she still had to get naked and spread her legs voluntarily. If you two haven't already had an agreement that you two can play alone at parties without prior consent I think you have cause to be upset over that too.

 

The fact that this supposed "friend" won't return your calls is also an indication that your feelings are being disregarded and he is probably aware you are pissed.

 

IMHO this was a bad and traumatic event for you and I think you should treat it as such and you need to communicate this to your wife so that she realizes the impact it has had on you. I am not saying to dwell on it and let it fester into something worse. I am saying to face up to the fact that you have been hurt and that you have feelings of hurt, disrespect, dishonor and darn near adultry taking place here and it is going to take some time and communication and perhaps even some outside help for this to heal.

 

My bigger concern is that there is perhaps some underlying maritial issues and problems taking place in your marriage even prior to this event and this could be a blow that can can cause some serious damage to your marriage. I am concerned that your wife may not be completely forthright about what has been taking place with these people and her feelings for them/him as well as disregarding your feelings about playing with him and then using too much to drink as an excuse.

 

Has she ever displayed any other bad behaviours and then tried to pass it off on too much drink at any other time in the past?

 

Fuck these supposed friends of yours and write them off. The real concern here is the potential damage this may have caused to your relationship with your wife and any other maritial problems that may be lurking beneath the surface.

 

This was a painfull thread to read and I am sorry you are going through this. I hope things work out and I wish you well.

[DocWill 83]

Seriously, you said everything you needed to say in your second post.

 

My question is why you and your wife have two different opinions on the definition of this “friendship?” If this “friendship” declined to a level where you were feeling miffed about it, why didn’t your wife know about it, and why did she think you’d be okay with her sleeping with him? I get the whole “tipsy” thing, but I don’t see that as being a valid excuse- especially since she’s fine with the whole situation after-the-fact (meaning she knows you’re upset).

 

There are three problems I see here:

 

1. You and your wife missed some communication on the acceptable level of your swinging habits when not alone. Either she ignored your feelings (remember, you said you two see each other all day and that you “know everything”- that should be two-way street) or really was too drunk to think straight. In both cases there’s a problem (again, especially since she feels this wasn’t a big deal).

 

2. Drinking and swinging don’t mix well. I won’t harp on that because the horse is dead, and I hope to hell she doesn’t have any unwanted critters crawling around since your once “exclusive friendship” has been tainted for over eight months.

 

3. Your “friend” not replying to you after you called, texted, e-mailed, and “facebooked” him is a BIG RED FLAG and that should be your biggest tell tale right there. You knew him for over a year, so either he’s feeling guilty about something or dropped off the grid. My advice, because your wife is so “okay” with this “friendship,” would be to contact his wife since he’s obviously ignoring you. I’d be curious to know her take on things (as well as your wife’s reaction)- and since you are all apparently still close, there shouldn’t be a problem with being open in the “friendship” and talking it over with her.

 

Seriously, this scenario has a fishy smell to it, but that’s just me thinking outside the box. I really hope you both move on from this with something positive after all is said and done. Sorry to sound so harsh, but I’ve just seen this too many times in the past to take it for face value- and you have good reason to feeling the way you do. The next step is to ask yourself why- and I mean the “why” beyond what you already know. That’s where your answers are.

[NH603 38]

This is EXACTLY what I was thinking, I was just trying to come up with the words to described it and The Fuse said it better than I could.

 

I think a lot of your reaction is that you were thinking they were brushing you two off as a couple but once your wife was there by herself they (or at least he) was glad to to head off to the bedroom with her alone and she was happy to accomidate them without you. In other words they weren't brushing you two off as a couple, they were brushing YOU off but were happy to accomidate your wife alone. OUCH!! You definately came up on the short end of the stick and are feeling rejected and as The Fuse said, Disregarded. Yeah, I think you have a right to feel hurt.

 

I wish I had some better cheer-up news and message to offer but I'm afraid I really don't because I am not buying this alcohol as an excuse story either. Unless your wife was drunk to the point of unconsciousness and he raped her, she still had to get naked and spread her legs voluntarily. If you two haven't already had an agreement that you two can play alone at parties without prior consent I think you have cause to be upset over that too.

 

The fact that this supposed "friend" won't return your calls is also an indication that your feelings are being disregarded and he is probably aware you are pissed.

 

IMHO this was a bad and traumatic event for you and I think you should treat it as such and you need to communicate this to your wife so that she realizes the impact it has had on you. I am not saying to dwell on it and let it fester into something worse. I am saying to face up to the fact that you have been hurt and that you have feelings of hurt, disrespect, dishonor and darn near adultry taking place here and it is going to take some time and communication and perhaps even some outside help for this to heal.

 

My bigger concern is that there is perhaps some underlying maritial issues and problems taking place in your marriage even prior to this event and this could be a blow that can can cause some serious damage to your marriage. I am concerned that your wife may not be completely forthright about what has been taking place with these people and her feelings for them/him as well as disregarding your feelings about playing with him and then using too much to drink as an excuse.

 

Has she ever displayed any other bad behaviours and then tried to pass it off on too much drink at any other time in the past?

 

Fuck these supposed friends of yours and write them off. The real concern here is the potential damage this may have caused to your relationship with your wife and any other maritial problems that may be lurking beneath the surface.

 

This was a painfull thread to read and I am sorry you are going through this. I hope things work out and I wish you well.

 

Thanks for the reply here. As far as my wife and I go our relationship is strong. I have no reason to believe there is more to her thoughts about them than what I know. I work from home, she is unemployed. We have kids. I am practically with her 24 hours a day and they live an hour away. We have no problem reading each others emails. If there was something more going on, it would be very easy to see.

 

It hurts, but I think it hurts more so because she was used and I feel for her. I dont even think she gets that just yet. She may just be clinging to any friend as we have recently moved and friends are not exactly all around us.

 

I dont think alcohol would have made a difference here either. Not saying that in a bad way, but it may have just sped things up.

[NH603 38]

Seriously, you said everything you needed to say in your second post.

 

My question is why you and your wife have two different opinions on the definition of this “friendship?” If this “friendship” declined to a level where you were feeling miffed about it, why didn’t your wife know about it, and why did she think you’d be okay with her sleeping with him? I get the whole “tipsy” thing, but I don’t see that as being a valid excuse- especially since she’s fine with the whole situation after-the-fact (meaning she knows you’re upset).

We view friendship different. It is simply a matter of communication with them. If someone doesnt want to be with us for months, they are barely a friend. We know lots of people like this and have a few that do hand with us. Ironically we are both social people but it is rare just due to where we live.

 

There are three problems I see here:

 

1. You and your wife missed some communication on the acceptable level of your swinging habits when not alone. Either she ignored your feelings (remember, you said you two see each other all day and that you “know everything”- that should be two-way street) or really was too drunk to think straight. In both cases there’s a problem (again, especially since she feels this wasn’t a big deal).

 

I dont think she ignored them, but there was a lack of communication. For a long time now, even before the 8 months, I felt as though there was an issue with them and us. I am extremely good at reading people, body language, etc. I said they were not our friends a long time ago.

 

2. Drinking and swinging don’t mix well. I won’t harp on that because the horse is dead, and I hope to hell she doesn’t have any unwanted critters crawling around since your once “exclusive friendship” has been tainted for over eight months.

 

Point taken. It has always been a part of the meet ups before.

 

3. Your “friend” not replying to you after you called, texted, e-mailed, and “facebooked” him is a BIG RED FLAG and that should be your biggest tell tale right there. You knew him for over a year, so either he’s feeling guilty about something or dropped off the grid. My advice, because your wife is so “okay” with this “friendship,” would be to contact his wife since he’s obviously ignoring you. I’d be curious to know her take on things (as well as your wife’s reaction)- and since you are all apparently still close, there shouldn’t be a problem with being open in the “friendship” and talking it over with her.

I did, all 4 of us were part of the facebook message where I basically said WHAT THE HELL to all 3 of them, even though his wife was not involved with the sex. He didnt respoond, nor did my wife (which makes sense). HIS WIFE responded. Only stating they though they were our good friends because of the occasional 4-6 month meet ups and that my wife should have known better if this was to be an issue. I sent a very lengthy email and there was no response to the fact that what we agreed on was now broken and no one had any right to do anything unless we talked.

Seriously, this scenario has a fishy smell to it, but that’s just me thinking outside the box. I really hope you both move on from this with something positive after all is said and done. Sorry to sound so harsh, but I’ve just seen this too many times in the past to take it for face value- and you have good reason to feeling the way you do. The next step is to ask yourself why- and I mean the “why” beyond what you already know. That’s where your answers are.

My wife and I will move on. It hurts, deeply, but we have too strong a relationship to let this bother us for ever.

 

Thanks for the thoughts here.

[Newpants 21]

 

It hurts, but I think it hurts more so because she was used and I feel for her. I dont even think she gets that just yet.

 

How was she used? She probably doesnt get that because she doesn't feel she was used either.

 

I don't see how she was used or taken advantage of. We're not talking about a love-struck 15 year old virgin and a smooth talking boy-band rock star here. This is a grown married woman who has experience in swinging.

 

I think you have a right and a reason to be hurt in a number of ways here but I think that your wife was used is one of them. Adult, sexually experienced women are either raped against their will or they voluntarily get naked and spread their legs, they are not used.

[bbarnsworth 2,643]

It hurts, but I think it hurts more so because she was used and I feel for her. I dont even think she gets that just yet. She may just be clinging to any friend as we have recently moved and friends are not exactly all around us.

 

Piggy backing with Newpants here. I don't see how your wife was used. I don't think she gets that she was or ever will, because she wasn't. It might hurt more for you to accept that she wasn't used, and I'm sorry if that's the case.

[Newpants 21]

It might hurt more for you to accept that she wasn't used, and I'm sorry if that's the case.

 

Double piggyback here.

 

Sometimes it's easier to blame a third party than the one that really has really caused the most pain. If some guy that you really aren't all that invested in does something that irks you it's easy to blame him because he really doesn't matter. When a person you really care about sticks a knife in your back it hurts more and sometimes we don't want to accept that that person has hurt us and we try to blame all the issues on someone else.

[NH603 38]

Oh I totally agree that she was into it and is as much to blame, if not more. Perhaps what I should say is WE were used for HIM to get to her.

[NH603 38]

Well she finally wrote back and said that this "Relationship" isnt working and she wishes us the best of luck.

[lizandtom 512]

Well she finally wrote back and said that this "Relationship" isnt working and she wishes us the best of luck.

 

I'm a NY'er so can be a bit of a 'gotta have the last word wizeass' type, so I might reply something like, "thanks for the well wishes, but there really wasn't any relationship, but feel free to let us know if there's anything you can do for us."

 

Of course letting it pass ignored would be the best route.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

I'm a NY'er so can be a bit of a 'gotta have the last word wizeass' type, so I might reply something like,

 

"thanks for the well wishes, but there really wasn't any relationship, but feel free to let us know if there's anything you can do for us."

Copied and saved

 

Of course letting it pass ignored would be the best route.

 

Not for this guy sometimes

[NH603 38]

I do want to get the last word in, but I have come to the conclusion that either they dont care or just dont get it. Frusterates the hell out of me when someone doesnt see your side, but I have let it go and I didnt reply back. It is all I can do.

 

Still hurts deeply though.

[bbarnsworth 2,643]

Still hurts deeply though.

 

Forgive me if this has been covered by other postings. I re-read the first post in this thread, and I didn't see it covered.

 

I don't see that your wife and you had an agreement that she would not play with them. She went to the party with both of you knowing they'd be there. She had played with them before, you're both swingers, you're on the same page, it was apparently ok for her to play solo...and she did. With them. She enjoyed it, had a good time.

 

You think she was used. You're livid. You think the other guy took advantage of her. The original agreement had understandings no longer in effect, but you're applying those understandings anyway.

 

I think the pain you are experiencing is sourced to you. I don't mean to be harsh. Just observational.

 

If my wife and I were monogamous with another couple for a long time, and then things drifted apart we wouldn't consider the monogamous understanding to be in place anymore. We'd certainly play with others. If we were at a swinging party, and came across one of the two people from the other couple, and s/he expressed interest in playing with us, we'd certainly consider it and probably would play with them. This isn't hard math. For me, "Hey Carla is here, and she's wanting to play with us. We had lots of fun with her before, and she says everything is fine. So let's go! Woohoo!"

 

I fail to see that the other couple did anything wrong.

 

Then follow it up with "Hmm. We had a great time with Carla the other day, and so did she apparently. Now Bill keeps on texting/calling trying to talk to me about why I had sex with Carla? I'm sensing a lot of drama happening, and we don't need to be part of it. Ok, let's send them a message back saying we're not interested anymore"

 

What I do see is that your wife failed to meet up to your uncommunicated expectations. You didn't want her to play with them, and apparently that wasn't effectively communicated. Now you're mad because she did, and are trying to lay blame on the other couple, then your wife.

 

I think the first place you should be looking for blame is yourself for not effectively communicating your wants and desires for that evening and in general. Your wife can't do/not do what you don't express/ask.

 

In reality, I don't think you should be trying to assert blame on anyone. Instead, understand what happened and learn from it.

[NH603 38]

Forgive me if this has been covered by other postings. I re-read the first post in this thread, and I didn't see it covered.

 

I don't see that your wife and you had an agreement that she would not play with them. She went to the party with both of you knowing they'd be there. She had played with them before, you're both swingers, you're on the same page, it was apparently ok for her to play solo...and she did. With them. She enjoyed it, had a good time.

 

You think she was used. You're livid. You think the other guy took advantage of her. The original agreement had understandings no longer in effect, but you're applying those understandings anyway.

 

I think the pain you are experiencing is sourced to you. I don't mean to be harsh. Just observational.

 

If my wife and I were monogamous with another couple for a long time, and then things drifted apart we wouldn't consider the monogamous understanding to be in place anymore. We'd certainly play with others. If we were at a swinging party, and came across one of the two people from the other couple, and s/he expressed interest in playing with us, we'd certainly consider it and probably would play with them. This isn't hard math. For me, "Hey Carla is here, and she's wanting to play with us. We had lots of fun with her before, and she says everything is fine. So let's go! Woohoo!"

 

I fail to see that the other couple did anything wrong.

 

Then follow it up with "Hmm. We had a great time with Carla the other day, and so did she apparently. Now Bill keeps on texting/calling trying to talk to me about why I had sex with Carla? I'm sensing a lot of drama happening, and we don't need to be part of it. Ok, let's send them a message back saying we're not interested anymore"

 

What I do see is that your wife failed to meet up to your uncommunicated expectations. You didn't want her to play with them, and apparently that wasn't effectively communicated. Now you're mad because she did, and are trying to lay blame on the other couple, then your wife.

 

I think the first place you should be looking for blame is yourself for not effectively communicating your wants and desires for that evening and in general. Your wife can't do/not do what you don't express/ask.

 

In reality, I don't think you should be trying to assert blame on anyone. Instead, understand what happened and learn from it.

 

I can agree with many things said here. For one, I did mention that I am partly to blame because I didnt say.. Hon, if things should happen.. dont let them.

 

Sure, if the chance came up for all of us, would be talk again and consider it? Sure... but I was not included with this decision. Neither was his wife. They just had sex.

 

Problem stems that all involved agreed to only have sex if we were exclusive. Everyone forgot that but me. If I was a different person, I most likely would not care. But everyone forgot this this all for 10 minutes of fun.

 

My pain is 100 % around my emotions and the fact that 3 out of 4 dont seem to want to apply the original rules. The after results of him not even contacting me just reinforces my beliefs. They are not our friends. I have known this for a while. I have told my wife this for a long long time.

 

Basic Math Here.

Not friends and/or not exclusive = no swinging

Friends + exclusive = swinging

 

One on one time before was part of this history. Back when things were agreed upon.

 

But by your own example, you broke your own rules. The other guy was not there to be a part of that "solo" decision between you, your wife, and the other girl. How do you know he is ok with her being there? Hopefully he does, but if you knew they were only the exclusive type, but only she was at a party, that would raise a flag. Aside that my wife didnt go to a swinger party, it was a regular party. We are not an open couple, or otherwise this would not be a problem either.

 

I appreciate your thoughts.

[sexcupid 809]

I can agree with many things said here. For one, I did mention that I am partly to blame because I didnt say.. Hon, if things should happen.. dont let them.

 

Be specfic and possibly prepare for any scenario. Perhaps you thought, this isn't a swinger party...so I shouldn't have to say this. Let's just chalk this one up to lesson learned.

 

Sure, if the chance came up for all of us, would be talk again and consider it? Sure... but I was not included with this decision. Neither was his wife. They just had sex.

 

How do you know what his wife agreed to or did not agree to? Obviously the "not swinger party" took a turn for more adult activities. If my guy was having sex with someone, I would know about it. Given that it started out as a non-swing party and deteriorated into a more adult themed affair afterwards, it would definitely be something we would be talking about. He wouldn't just be sneaking off to entice a poor unsuspecting victim.

 

Problem stems that all involved agreed to only have sex if we were exclusive. Everyone forgot that but me. If I was a different person, I most likely would not care. But everyone forgot this this all for 10 minutes of fun. My pain is 100 % around my emotions and the fact that 3 out of 4 dont seem to want to apply the original rules. The after results of him not even contacting me just reinforces my beliefs. They are not our friends. I have known this for a while. I have told my wife this for a long long time.

 

First...you are clinging to "rules" that no longer applied in this situation. The other couple were no longer exclusive to you and your wife. If that is your safety blanket right now, okay...but as you have mentioned many times here, the situation changed. The other couple did not want to maintain the level of friendship that you wanted...although your wife was fine with it. And they no longer wanted it to just be the four of you and had moved on to other playmates and hosting parties (which apparently you and your wife were invited to).

 

But by your own example, you broke your own rules. The other guy was not there to be a part of that "solo" decision between you, your wife, and the other girl. How do you know he is ok with her being there? Hopefully he does, but if you knew they were only the exclusive type, but only she was at a party, that would raise a flag. Aside that my wife didnt go to a swinger party, it was a regular party. We are not an open couple, or otherwise this would not be a problem either.

 

No...they were not breaking their own rules in the example that bbarnsworth gave. They stated that the "original" set of rules would have been disregarded by then...but if that former playmate was at a party and showed interested, then they would go for it...just because the "exclusivity" isn't in place anymore doesn't mean that someone may not still be interested in the other couple...they want to explore their options.

 

If we were at a party (regardless of what kind of party it was) and a former playmate indicated they were open to playing again...I wouldn't be calling the person's SO to verify. Why? Because that person should be the one either saying "its all okay" or "no my husband isn't here" or "we're not playing with you any more b/c the four of us aren't exclusive with each other"...whatever the couple's stance is. And since it had not be clearly communicated to your wife that you did not want her playing with this couple in any way/shape/form, then she may very well have been operating under the same assumptions the other couple was.

 

The equation I think bbarnsworth was looking at might be something like this: former playmate + opportunity to play = naked time. The follow up equation might look like: naked time + pissed off email/text bombs = drama...let's stay away from that one.

 

You feeling upset/ticked off is entirely valid...they are your feelings, own them. Wanting to get the last word is a bit immature. They have tried being non-confrontational in ignoring the probably hateful emails. They respond with what appears to be non-confrontational language saying they don't feel its working out...and you get even more ticked by that when by your own admission you haven't felt that it was working out for nearly a year.

 

I'm not sure what exactly would have made you feel the friendship was more valid with this couple...since apparently 75% of the participants were satisfied with the level of contact and interaction. What exactly did you want or need to feel like it was "real"?

[bbarnsworth 2,643]

Problem stems that all involved agreed to only have sex if we were exclusive. Everyone forgot that but me.

 

That understanding was no longer in effect. You thought it was in effect. Therein lies a serious problem. I don't think anybody forgot. It was recognition that your relationship with them was not as it was before.

 

My pain is 100 % around my emotions and the fact that 3 out of 4 dont seem to want to apply the original rules.

 

On what basis do you believe the original rules were in effect? Was this other couple required not to have played with you ever? It eventually has to go by the way side. It did; months and months passed. It's obvious the old rules were gone.

 

 

The after results of him not even contacting me just reinforces my beliefs.

 

As I said, if I were the other guy I'd want to disconnect from you too. I'd see drama boiling up and I'm not in swinging to be involved in drama. This is a problem you (and your wife) need to work out. It's not up to them to figure it out for you. I'd walk away too.

 

Basic Math Here.

Not friends and/or not exclusive = no swinging

Friends + exclusive = swinging

 

The basic math is completely undermined by the fact that the rules were no longer in play.

 

One on one time before was part of this history. Back when things were agreed upon.

 

Exactly. Those things are not agreed upon anymore.

 

But by your own example, you broke your own rules.

 

Again, rules not in effect.

 

The other guy was not there to be a part of that "solo" decision between you, your wife, and the other girl. How do you know he is ok with her being there?

 

Because I've swung multiple times with them before and have developed a trust for them. I don't have reason to believe she's lying to me. If it was a first time encounter, I'd insist on in person permission from the husband. But, it's not a first time encounter, far from it.

 

Hopefully he does, but if you knew they were only the exclusive type, but only she was at a party, that would raise a flag.

 

It would tell me that they're no longer an exclusive play couple. Still no major red flags.

 

I appreciate your thoughts.

 

I'm sorry if it's not want you want to hear. I don't mean to be harsh.

[NH603 38]

That understanding was no longer in effect. You thought it was in effect. Therein lies a serious problem. I don't think anybody forgot. It was recognition that your relationship with them was not as it was before.

 

 

 

On what basis do you believe the original rules were in effect? Was this other couple required not to have played with you ever? It eventually has to go by the way side. It did; months and months passed. It's obvious the old rules were gone.

 

 

 

 

As I said, if I were the other guy I'd want to disconnect from you too. I'd see drama boiling up and I'm not in swinging to be involved in drama. This is a problem you (and your wife) need to work out. It's not up to them to figure it out for you. I'd walk away too.

 

 

 

The basic math is completely undermined by the fact that the rules were no longer in play.

 

 

 

Exactly. Those things are not agreed upon anymore.

 

 

 

Again, rules not in effect.

 

 

 

Because I've swung multiple times with them before and have developed a trust for them. I don't have reason to believe she's lying to me. If it was a first time encounter, I'd insist on in person permission from the husband. But, it's not a first time encounter, far from it.

 

 

 

It would tell me that they're no longer an exclusive play couple. Still no major red flags.

 

 

 

I'm sorry if it's not want you want to hear. I don't mean to be harsh.

 

Not harsh at all. I think our situations are different.

 

As mentioned before.. 75 % of the people involved were on different wavelengths

. If it isnt 100, there is a problem.

 

Can I see his side, sure.... but it was purely thinking with his dick. Again, me being different here, but if the situation was reversed, I would check or do something.

 

Experience and life lessons here.

[NH603 38]

Be specfic and possibly prepare for any scenario. Perhaps you thought, this isn't a swinger party...so I shouldn't have to say this. Let's just chalk this one up to lesson learned.

 

 

 

How do you know what his wife agreed to or did not agree to? Obviously the "not swinger party" took a turn for more adult activities. If my guy was having sex with someone, I would know about it. Given that it started out as a non-swing party and deteriorated into a more adult themed affair afterwards, it would definitely be something we would be talking about. He wouldn't just be sneaking off to entice a poor unsuspecting victim.

 

 

 

First...you are clinging to "rules" that no longer applied in this situation. The other couple were no longer exclusive to you and your wife. If that is your safety blanket right now, okay...but as you have mentioned many times here, the situation changed. The other couple did not want to maintain the level of friendship that you wanted...although your wife was fine with it. And they no longer wanted it to just be the four of you and had moved on to other playmates and hosting parties (which apparently you and your wife were invited to).

 

 

 

No...they were not breaking their own rules in the example that bbarnsworth gave. They stated that the "original" set of rules would have been disregarded by then...but if that former playmate was at a party and showed interested, then they would go for it...just because the "exclusivity" isn't in place anymore doesn't mean that someone may not still be interested in the other couple...they want to explore their options.

 

If we were at a party (regardless of what kind of party it was) and a former playmate indicated they were open to playing again...I wouldn't be calling the person's SO to verify. Why? Because that person should be the one either saying "its all okay" or "no my husband isn't here" or "we're not playing with you any more b/c the four of us aren't exclusive with each other"...whatever the couple's stance is. And since it had not be clearly communicated to your wife that you did not want her playing with this couple in any way/shape/form, then she may very well have been operating under the same assumptions the other couple was.

 

The equation I think bbarnsworth was looking at might be something like this: former playmate + opportunity to play = naked time. The follow up equation might look like: naked time + pissed off email/text bombs = drama...let's stay away from that one.

 

You feeling upset/ticked off is entirely valid...they are your feelings, own them. Wanting to get the last word is a bit immature. They have tried being non-confrontational in ignoring the probably hateful emails. They respond with what appears to be non-confrontational language saying they don't feel its working out...and you get even more ticked by that when by your own admission you haven't felt that it was working out for nearly a year.

 

I'm not sure what exactly would have made you feel the friendship was more valid with this couple...since apparently 75% of the participants were satisfied with the level of contact and interaction. What exactly did you want or need to feel like it was "real"?

 

I hear you about the rules.. and you are right about the 3 of them.. but you use the correct word... assumptions.... everyone assumed I would be ok.

 

To make it real.. be a friend. Actually call us to see whats up, go out to dinner, do what friends do. They were the ones that wanted that to be the basis of the everything.. and not just be swingers. We all agreed. Friendship is gone, the foundation is gone...why are we swinging??

 

I dont want to get the last word. I let it go and didnt reply back to them. Hateful emails? No. To the point asking what everything was thinking.

[NH603 38]

I appreciate all the help here. I think we can all just agree it is a crappy situation. Lesson learned, life will go on.

 

Thanks!

Jason

[fun4Ds 1,098]

NH603, I would like to say thank you for sharing this and your right, life will go on...

 

I don't think I would have handled this as well as you have. I just wanted to say I can find decent admiration in your choices.

 

 

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