Seriously confused about my wife's signals about swinging

[okcurious 20]

I'm seriously getting confused by my wife. I brought up the idea of swinging to my wife months ago. At that time, she was sort of interested, but didn't seem to be overly serious. Her big fantasy (and mine) is a MFM with her doing DP. She ALWAYS says what a huge turn on that would be. Anyway, at the time, she entertained the idea, but I could tell she wasn't close to doing it, so I dropped the subject.

 

Fast forward to a few days ago. We were watching a bit of porn while we made love. As usual, it was a MFM. She talked about how this is such a fantasy of hers and she really would love to try it sometime. The next night (2 nights ago), she told me she would really like to attend a club party, on premise, and watch others make love. And of course, make love in front of others, just us. That REALLY turned me on. The next day, to make sure it wasn't the heat of the moment, I asked her about it again, and she said she was serious.

 

Being a typical male, I went on the internet, looked up clubs in our state (not that many on-premise, buckle of the bible-belt and all), and found a party for newbies that was happening tonight. I told her about it last night and said 'let's go'. At that point, she totally shut down, didn't even want to talk about it. If I say anything about it, to her I'm being obsessive about it. WTH? I've done everything I know to do to let her know that all we have to do is go, have drinks, and watch people if that's all she wants. What does she do? She makes last minute plans to go to a concert with her sorority sisters tonight leaving me at home alone. So I go from hoping to share a new experience with her to being at home alone on a Friday night. Maybe I'm being selfish, but it feels a bit like shit right now.

 

This is way longer than I intended, and I guess I don't really have a question, just a rant. Actually, I do, but I suppose I already know the answer. Should I cling to hope that she is entertaining the idea and working up her courage to try? Or should I be cynical and believe she is only entertaining the idea to keep me aroused and drop the whole thing? The thing is, I'm not sure I can drop the whole thing. We've been married 20 years, and I've been MORE than understanding through all the times she was too tired because of the kids, too uncomfortable because of her body image, etc. Our sex life hasn't been all that great these last 20 years (about a 2 out of 10) until she hit 40, now all of a sudden, she "says" she's horny all the time, and it isn't like I just want to get laid. I want HER to get laid!

 

I'm not sure what to believe any more. We have a REALLY strong marriage, but I'm starting to think that my desires aren't in line with hers. Maybe I'm making too much out of this. I don't know. I have no problem admitting I'm wrong if I'm wrong, I just don't know. I WANT to believe that what she told me about her fantasy and really wanting to try it is true, but God, I just don't know anymore. You would think that after 20 years, I would be able to read her like a book, but I guess I'm just not smart enough to do that.

 

I'm sorry this is so long. Not sure if there is a question in there or not, just more or less a request for your thoughts. I'm trying my hardest to be patient and understanding, but part of me feels like she's playing on my emotions and intentionally taking me on a roller-coaster ride.

[okcurious 20]

BTW, to all those at The Green Door in Tulsa, I really wanted to come to your newbie night, but alas, it wasn't to be. Maybe in the future, it will be.

[okcurious 20]

Sheesh! Reading back through this, it sounds like I'm being really selfish. I'm really not. My fantasy is the same as hers: a MFM with her being pleased in every way. Anything else that may happen, is just a bonus.

[exploringRM 305]

That jump from fantasy to reality can be difficult. Perhaps she got cold feet? Some people jump into swinging quickly, others it takes months/years of talking about it. Swinging moves at the pace of the slowest person. I saw take your time, talk again (not during/after sex) about it and see what she says.

[sexcupid 809]

Well it does sound a little bit like you are whining. Equating your wife not wanting to go to a swing club with you to dealing with the ups and downs that can come with having children is not exactly a fair comparison.

 

However...what makes you think you could spring an event on your wife the night before? I mean, if you just happened across the event listing and realized oh crap that's happening tomorrow...a better approach might have been "hey one of the clubs has a newbie night...would you be interested in going sometime?"

 

Putting her on the spot probably flipped her out...read around here, there are tons of good threads around here about getting started. And sometimes you just have to be patient...some folks talk about it for years before ever doing it (if ever). I know you are being a typical man and probably are thinking "if she wants to do it...here's the way to get it done...why doesn't she want to do it?!" Because its a big jump from having the fantasy and possibly having it come true. It can be scary, intimidating, and just feel weird to go out trolling for sex...especially since its been at least 20 years since she has had to do so (if she even did before you were married).

 

Even though she says she wants to do it...she may be having doubts. Is he going to want to have sex with another woman if he lets me have sex with another guy? If he loves me, why does he want to do/see this? Will another guy even find me attractive enough to want to have sex with?

 

You have done your part, bookmark this website, show it to her...and tell her you will talk when she brings the topic up again. Just think of a topic that she was excited about and wanted to talk to you about it all the time but you felt she was nagging (I'm sure in 20 years you can think of at least a couple)...well now the tables are turned and you are going to have to be patient.

 

Good luck and welcome to the board!

[okcurious 20]

Maria, you're right. I never meant to spring it on her, and hearing it put that way, I guess I did just that that. We had talked about it before, and I guess when she said that, I just naturally (being a typical guy) jumped on it. Knowing her, she probably does have the exact thoughts you mentioned. That's why I tried to make very clear to her that all we had to do (well, not HAD, always her choice) was go & watch, discover the lifestyle.

[sexcupid 809]

You know that you are okay with just going and watching (I did see your intro where you stated that you are quite the voyeur)...its still quite nerve wracking to plan to go to a swing club (on or off premise). If your wife knows you are apt to get too absorbed in the sights around you (porn on the tvs, people playing/flirting/flashing) she may feel like you aren't going to notice if she has any distress or discomfort.

 

Since we've been doing this (and bear in mind we view the lifestyle stuff as an occasional hobby) in the last 4 years or so, I am still super nervous before going to a club/party/whatever and that is when we are going places we know people. The first night we went I nearly threw up while getting ready to go (and we went on a Friday b/c we knew it would be less busy).

 

One thing you may want to consider would be a meet and greet...they are generally held in "regular" bars or restaurants. Not to say there might not be an after-party or people hitting on you...but its not in an environment specifically meant to go hook up with someone. That might be some what less intimidating of an environment to see that swingers are regular people too. Not mindless sex fiends that will have sex with anyone that walks past. lol

 

ExploringRM made a good point...you can only move at the pace of the slowest person...and right now that person is your wife...at some point it may be you. Just try to stay positive (I know its hard ).

[WildFire 19]

Just take things slow for now, she will eventually get her courage up to take the next step if she feels comfortable.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

You would think that after 20 years, I would be able to read her like a book, but I guess I'm just not smart enough to do that.

 

I think the only way to read a woman like a book, is if it is a audible book, and she is the one "reading" it to you out loud. And that doesn't mean your are not smart, just, as you said, a typical male. Trying to read, and sometimes understand, women is something I think most men struggle with.

 

Getting to the point where both parties in a relationship share exactly what they are thinking is tough. She may have been humoring you, she may have been dead serious. If she was serious, she may have gotten cold feet, or just did not like the way your presented it, or the timing (too much, too fast), or.... well the list could go forever. So, who knows what she was really thinking? Her? Maybe. She might, she might not. Swinging can be confusing and attitudes can change faster than the wind. You can guess at the real reasons or discuss it with her.

 

I would probably start with a mea culpa, tell her you are sorry, you thought that was what she wanted, and ask her to help you understand what she really wants. You might find out she was upset with you for another reason, this was only the match that lit the fire. Or you may find she is content with her fantasy remaining just that.

 

A few things that you wrote that give me pause.

• cling to hope Or be cynical - try patience and understanding. She may want this as bad as you, but needs to take it at a slower speed. If she doesn't want it, then be understanding, you have 20 years together, don't let a failed fantasy screw that up.
  
• I'm not sure I can drop the whole thing. - why not? belaboring it will only cause more damage if she really has no desire to move from fantasy to reality. And what are the alternatives, continue to push the point until she gives in and perhaps resents you for it? Or until you both are miserable and it destroys a 20 year marriage, because you can't agree on swinging?
  
• Sex life has not been great for 20 years, she hits 40 and is horny - being horny does not equate to great sex life. Perhaps you two need to take some time to make sure it is great before having others join in. Enjoy each other and your new found sex life for a while, others can join later if you both still want it.
  
• I want HER to get laid! - But what does she want? REALLY want.
  

The issues above seem to me to be about your desires and your frustration of her not meeting them. Admittedly, you are confused by what she said she wanted, but take some time to figure out what she really wants. IF she really does not want the same things, don't let your frustration consume you and make you bitter. It would be sad for a 20 year marriage to end over something like this.

[RDfnd 180]

Here's how we started, a number of years ago. I read about a club in a nearby city and was fascinated about it. Couldn't believe that we could go and experience what was supposed to go on there. I got the courage to bring it up to my wife and she was not the least bit receptive to the idea initially. As the weekend drew near, we discussed it a few times and she reluctantly agreed to go. When at the club, we did nothing but observe. I was totally enjoying the surroundings, but my wife seemed less than pleased and was actually very critical verbally. I offered to leave a number of times, but she insisted on staying. When we finally did leave, the drive home was mostly more of the same criticism from her.

 

Thinking that had been our one and only experience, as the next weekend approached and we began to make plans, out of the blue, my wife suggested a return trip to the club. That visit was much more enjoyable. We had sex together in one of the semi-private rooms where others could watch in ceiling mirrors. Afterwards, although always excellent, our sex life got even better.

 

To make a long story short, we soon became regulars and most weeks attended all 3 nights that the club was open. As we have advanced in our experiences, my wife has been the one that has adapted most easily and has advanced most quickly in her comfort level with watching, being watched,soft and full swap.

 

Confusing? You bet. However, you just can't tell sometimes when entering such an alternative way of thinking and behaving. I'm certain that there are a whole host of reasons why initially, even in stable sound relationships. Partners may be confused themselves and have to work through that before they can even communicate thoroughly and effectively about it with their other half.

 

... try patience and understanding. She may want this as bad as you, but needs to take it at a slower speed.

Excellent advice.

[realcplub2 513]

Ok, I read all the posts and am going back to the original, taking each part, bit by bit

 

I'm seriously getting confused by my wife. I brought up the idea of swinging to my wife months ago. At that time, she was sort of interested, but didn't seem to be overly serious. Her big fantasy (and mine) is a MFM with her doing DP. She ALWAYS says what a huge turn on that would be. Anyway, at the time, she entertained the idea, but I could tell she wasn't close to doing it, so I dropped the subject. SNIP

 

OK, please understand that the idea and concept of what you proposed to her is yes exciting to her, and she appears from what you have written trying to process it all, You do not mention, her background, Upbringing, ECT.. all of these can defuse the whole thing.

 

Fast forward to a few days ago. We were watching a bit of porn while we made love. As usual, it was a MFM. She talked about how this is such a fantasy of hers and she really would love to try it sometime. The next night (2 nights ago), she told me she would really like to attend a club party, on premise, and watch others make love. And of course, make love in front of others, just us. That REALLY turned me on. The next day, to make sure it wasn't the heat of the moment, I asked her about it again, and she said she was serious.

 

Being a typical male, I went on the internet, looked up clubs in our state (not that many on-premise, buckle of the bible-belt and all), and found a party for newbies that was happening tonight. I told her about it last night and said 'let's go'. At that point, she totally shut down, didn't even want to talk about it. If I say anything about it, to her I'm being obsessive about it. WTH? I've done everything I know to do to let her know that all we have to do is go, have drinks, and watch people if that's all she wants. What does she do? She makes last minute plans to go to a concert with her sorority sisters tonight leaving me at home alone. So I go from hoping to share a new experience with her to being at home alone on a Friday night. Maybe I'm being selfish, but it feels a bit like shit right now.

 

You had an Excellent approach, but, you were working within a time frame that didnt allow her time to get comfortable with the idea. I doubt it would have been received any other way, if it was another sex charged topic, such as actually doing a MFM.

 

This is way longer than I intended, and I guess I don't really have a question, just a rant. Actually, I do, but I suppose I already know the answer. Should I cling to hope that she is entertaining the idea and working up her courage to try? Or should I be cynical and believe she is only entertaining the idea to keep me aroused and drop the whole thing? The thing is, I'm not sure I can drop the whole thing. We've been married 20 years, and I've been MORE than understanding through all the times she was too tired because of the kids, too uncomfortable because of her body image, etc. Our sex life hasn't been all that great these last 20 years (about a 2 out of 10) until she hit 40, now all of a sudden, she "says" she's horny all the time, and it isn't like I just want to get laid. I want HER to get laid!

 

I'm not sure what to believe any more. We have a REALLY strong marriage, but I'm starting to think that my desires aren't in line with hers. Maybe I'm making too much out of this. I don't know. I have no problem admitting I'm wrong if I'm wrong, I just don't know. I WANT to believe that what she told me about her fantasy and really wanting to try it is true, but God, I just don't know anymore. You would think that after 20 years, I would be able to read her like a book, but I guess I'm just not smart enough to do that.

 

I'm sorry this is so long. Not sure if there is a question in there or not, just more or less a request for your thoughts. I'm trying my hardest to be patient and understanding, but part of me feels like she's playing on my emotions and intentionally taking me on a roller-coaster ride.

 

OK.. Here is the thing OK

 

Her comment on you being obsessive, is a clue. the approach you used about talking about this, away from the bedroom, is the proper one.

 

Considering her comment, I suggest, simply asking her, when you both can talk about this, using the best terminology possible to express WHEN SHE IS READY TO.. Take all the pressure off, and leave the subject alone until she wants to talk to you about it, away from the bedroom. It maybe brought up again, as foreplay, go with it, but leave it alone, to talk seriously about it for a while unless she brings it up away from the bedroom.

 

WHEN she is ready to talk to you about it, first and foremost explain to her this is about having fun, and NOTHING to do with love.. Sex is supposed to be fun.. Just like getting into a pick up game of basketball, playing softball, or going swimming.. its just an indoor sport, with much less equipment ( in most cases,lol ) Explain the things that excite you about doing this, but that it has nothing to do with how deeply you feel about her.. Its about having fun and enjoying each other, and others.

 

The best idea is to show her what you saw online, and let her read the info for herself, if its the party/club aspect you are considering. Just make sure you explain that there are all sorts of folks, and the term newbies is often a mis nomer, being new to the group, doesnt mean they arent experienced. there are those that want to wade in at thier own pace and others that cannonball in, both feet first.. be prepared to encounter both types.

 

The other factor that you both need to understand, there is no set way for anyone to get involved, we all HOPE that people are STRONG enough , SECURE in the in thier relationship to do this. There is no set way to get involved, and no time frame, to gauge and say, ok its been six months, lets go.. Each person proceeds at thier own pace. the activities you suggest being involved in, all depend on HER.. Until she is ready, getting frustrated, or upset at the mixed signals isnt doing either of you any go.

 

Hope this helps.. Please let us know how things go

[ClosetSwinger 112]

She's nervous.....cold feet...etc.

 

It's one thing to talk about it, fantasize about it etc...it's another thing to actually put yourself in a situation where it's very possible to happen. Most people don't live out their sexual fantasies...well the "extreme" ones anyway (and to vanilla people an extreme fantasy is sex with your spouse and others at the same time).

 

The first time we swapped with a couple we had just gotten to know I was ready to back out. It was obvious that everyone was up for playing but I was scared to death. Not because I didn't want to but because I was afraid of the unknown, would the guy like me, did he find me attractive? I hadn't been with anyone else but my husband for 11 years, it was scary.

 

A few drinks later and some positive cues from the other man put me at ease and we went for it. Once things were started I was fine but it's very scary as a woman that has only been with one man for an extended period of time.

 

I wouldn't be pushy and I can't stress enough how much YOU HAVE TO LET HER TAKE THE LEAD in this. I had to feel in control of the ENTIRE situation in the beginning. Hubby knew to step back and let me make the decisions. Now I am much more comfortable with all of it but the beginning was nerve wracking and while I wanted to do it all, I was scared.

[okcurious 20]

Thank you for all of the very helpful replies. When she got home last night, we sat down and talked about it, and your advice really helped. She's still 'interested', but just not ready to make that leap. I asked her if she wanted me to just totally drop the idea, and she said no. She just wants to give the idea some time and thought which is perfectly understandable. There isn't and never was any way I would let this issue ruin my marriage. My marriage is the best thing that has ever happened to me and is more important to me than anything in this world.

 

Thanks for all the great advice!

[Trace Ekies 186]

Three years ago Mrs. Ekies and I met a couple and eventually learned that the other woman had her hood pierced...I mentioned how sexy I found the other woman's piercing and asked Mrs. Ekies if she'd have hers done...I got an emphatic "NO WAY!" and dropped it.

 

Fast forward to last Monday, July 26th...Mrs. Ekies asked me to find a place that would pierce her hood...I did as asked and she has an appointment for 2 pm tomorrow, August 3rd.

 

Patience was the key here...I had no way of knowing that she'd go thru with it, but I had the wherewithall to let it lie until such time as she was ready.

 

Patience here is key for you...honor her requests without being pushy and let her come to terms with the implications...and then fill further requests and let her come to terms again...eventually you'll be riding home laughing about how hot it was to watch her have sex with others for the pure pleasure of it.

 

Open the door when she asks and then step aside and let her walk thru on her own...we've done it all of our lives as men...don't stop now.

 

Best of luck,

 

Trace

[b smith 15]

There is allot of good advice on this board that is helpful. I do not know how much of this would be helpful but thought sharing my journey might help you shed some light onto your situation since there are some similarities between our journeys.

 

To begin with my wife and I have been married nearly 20 years and during that time we have had a few mfm threesome experiences and cuckold experiences. Those experiences, for the most part happened several years ago. Then after a few experiences they stopped and they stopped not because of any problems with having a threesome. Instead they stopped I feel we had satisfied a need and after a few more years we moved, for reasons not associated with having threesomes.

 

After a long break and discovering that there were a few on premise clubs near us I thought I would reintroduce the idea of giving it another try to my wife. Also I suggested we consider attending one of the nearby clubs. However with her job she is concerned about being discovered because she comes in contact with allot of different people and she has had at least two friends who were in open relationships that had bad experiences. So for a while we went through several cycles where we would get close to have a threesome and then she would abruptly pull back form the idea. As time went on things seemed to go nowhere and I let the idea die.

 

Economy started slowing down, I lost my job and I decided to go to school. During this time I would have a few women hit on me and I would share that with my wife. It was not done to upset her but we share everything with each other, so it seemed natural. Sharing the stories upset her a bit but it also aroused her too, a bit. Right before I was to graduate, she changed her attitude towards threesomes, somewhat. We are now at the point where she will tease me about having a girlfriend that comes over while she is gone, on a few occasions when she is up late at night making noise from walking about she will joke about having a boyfriend, and I can joke to her about having a boyfriend. This may seem like not much but she is not pulling back like she was and she is the one that is taking the lead. Also, I have noticed she is less resistant about talking about threesomes and sometimes will asking to send her text messages about her having a cuckold experience.

 

Does this mean I expect we will have another experience, again? No it does not and if we do not that is fine because I appreciate her. Nonetheless, I do think it may mean she is getting comfortable with the idea of having some type of experience again but if she will I am still uncertain. At least for me I have learned that it is important to take it slow, to communicate, to listen to what is said because it will give you some clues, allow her time to get comfortable with the idea and to love the person that you are married. The latter is important because it is not the experience of having a threesome that is important but it is journey that the two of you take through life together that matters.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

It sounds like she needs to move at her pace. Let her take the lead. Since you brought it up and she thinks you were pushing too hard, just back off. If it comes again (because she brings it up) don't say "well I tried to get you to go to that club...!". Just look at her and tell her that you love her and that you would love to make any fantasy she has come true and would do anything to see that happen. Let the conversation go where it will. As it continues in a positive direction, just ask her "would you like to check out a local club and see what it's like?"

 

She may have other reasons why she doesn't want to go to a club. Many people have really negative views of swinger clubs, and that may be where her response was coming from. If that's the case, then you may need to try just meeting others in a different setting. Find out what she's comfortable with and go with it, but again let her set the pace.

[okcurious 20]

It's been a while since I posted, and boy have things changed. I took everyone's advice and just dropped the subject, then a few days later we were sitting around on a Friday evening and she, out of nowhere, said she wanted to go to this bar nearby that's swinger friendly. She knew this ahead of time (the swinger friendly part). We went, danced, had a great time and ended up going home with this couple. She went wild, even tried the other woman which is something she said she would NEVER do.

 

Since then, she wants to go out every weekend, even sometimes during the week. To be honest, the hard part is keeping up with her. We've been to a couple of clubs and had a great time. We've been with a few other couples, but mainly with this couple we met a few weeks ago. She's also discovered her 'inner-bi'. Actually, she now says she's always been curious but would have never admitted it.

 

I guess I'm still seriously confused, but in a good way.

 

We talked about our rules before we went out that first time, but most of those flew out the window on that first night. We still have a couple like no swinging alone and no taking one for the team, but a lot of what we had said we wouldn't do, like kissing, just seem a little silly and pointless now. (not to say anyone who has those rules is silly, just for us)

[RDfnd 180]

Sounds as if things are working out fine. Glad to hear that for the both of you.