Are we swinging?

psycdr · August 21, 2010

I am new to this forum and not sure what me and my wife are doing is "swinging" or not so I am hoping for some guidance from the members. So here goes:

One of my many fantasies has been for my wife to be with another man, we have talked about it for the last several yeas and recently we decided to test the waters. She had met someone at work that she was attracted to and we agreed on some ground rules, one of them being total honesty and disclosure. There are more rules, but I will not bore you with them.

One of my wife's rules right from the beginning was that she did not think she could just "F" someone for the sake of it, but she would have to have some romance, essentially she liked the flirting and such. I totally understand that some women need to have an emotional connection and I am cool with that. We have a very strong and loving marriage so I have no concerns (there is a reason I am giving you all of this info which will hopefully make itself clear in a moment). She has told me that she also does not want to have multiple "boyfriends", she would prefer to have a ongoing relationship with one person (male or female). When she finds someone new she would break it off with the current person. She has also stated she just can not have sex with a random male.

The upside for me is that I get so stimulated over her being with another man which has made our sex life incredible. When she comes home from one of her dates I want to know the details of her encounter. In some cases she is telling me what these men are doing to her while we are being intimate ourselves and it gets me incredibly horny, My wife wants me to look for another female, but I am really not interested (I suspect if I really looked I could find someone I would be interested in).

So my questions:

is this lifestyle swinging?

Are there any other members that are in a similar situation?

Any other advise would be appreciated.

SW_PA_Couple · August 21, 2010

Just so I understand the question, Mr. psycdr, the beginning part of your message implies that your fantasy of having your wife fucking another man is not yet fulfilled and the later part of your message says that she has been coming home for years to tell you stories about her sexual encounters, those presumably being with men. Please elaborate.

Whatever the nature for your question, I believe you have come to the right place to ask questions. Hope you find the Swingersboard to be helpful and informative.

cplnuswing · August 21, 2010

I'm a little confused too on exactly what has transpired to this point.

I'm not one who really thinks labels are all that important and I don't like to play the who is, or who isn't, a swinger game since everybody has their own definition and arguing about who's is right is pointless. But, since you asked, then yes I think that lifestyle fits into the broad definition of swinging. There seems to be a cuckold element involved, but it also sounds like your wife anyway may be toying with the idea of some sort of poly relationship.

My question is, is it important to you that it can be considered swinging, and is therefore "ok", or are you in fact a little uncomfortable with some aspects of what is going on?

The final bit of advice is swinging with coworker = bad idea.

Coupleerotic22 · August 21, 2010

There is not a single definition of swinging, or some criteria to be meet to consider something swinging. And I don't really think it matters what you call it. If you are both having fun and remaining honest with each other and it all works for you, does it really matter if it fits other peoples definition of swinging?

That said, I would think what your doing would be considered swinging, it may not be the way most people swing, but surely some swing that way. We each have our own kinks and ways of doing things, so as long as it works for the two of you (and your partners) then go for it.

naughtyus74 · August 22, 2010

I don't know... if I HAD to put a label on it, it sounds like hotwife/cuckold type of thing to me... but fuck, I hate labels like that because maybe it might strike you as negative... maybe not... IMHO, who cares what you call it as long as you and your partner are happy, healthy, and enjoying each other and your lifestyle.

psycdr · August 22, 2010

First let me address what has happened thus far: about five years ago my wife and I started talking about a fantasy I had where she would get pleasured by another male. She had tried to connect with an old boyfriend, but could not follow at the last minute. She felt it would reopen some old feelings.

Over the following years we continued to discuss it and what the rules would be. Then about 2 weeks ago my wife mentioned there was someone she worked with that she would be willing to take it to the next step. We discussed the ground rules and she said she needed to do it in baby steps. It started out with light petting on the first date, then oral sex, then on this last Friday she took it to the final step. This all transpired over a 2 week period (from the first date to last Friday). The sex my wife and I have experienced in the last few weeks has been incredible. For me, it's as if my sexual energy has been infused with superfuel.

My wife has only been with this one guy. She has a desire to be with a female on her own, with me watching, and with me participating.

Right now my wife and I are trying to get through our shyness; we so want to share our experience with our friends, but we know they would never understand it.

And for the record I would very much be interested in being with another female, but right now we are just enjoying what we recently discovered.

There are so many questions we have and really no one to talk to about it.

To answer another comment, I am looking for a label because it will help me research and understand all of this. I am a clinical psychologist and my wife is a clinical social worker. We are both trying to understand all of this so we can meet others with the same needs, if that makes any sense.

bbarnsworth · August 23, 2010

cplnuswing and Cajun2Step are spot on with their advice about coworkers. Unfortunately, it's already happened between your lovely wife and her coworker.

It's a bad idea to mix swinging and coworkers. There are PLENTY of single men in the lifestyle. It can be a trick to find really good ones that you want to keep around for a while (as you seem to suggest you and your wife are trying to do), but they are out there. My wife and I are looking for the same thing, and recently posted about it. We've heard from two couples posting here where the wives in their couples have been having sex with the same play partners for many years. It's certainly quite possible. There's no need to mix in a coworker to get what you want.

Now that it has happened though, I do hope it works out for you. If there's an opportunity to quietly end it though, I'd take it and move on.

to answer another comment, I am looking for a label because it will he'll me research and understand all of this. I am a clinical psychologist and my wife is a clinical social worker. We are both trying to understand all of this so we can meet others with the same needs, if that makes any sense.

Some might call it cuckolding. It depends on what one thinks cuckolding is. To some, cuckolding is the wife getting to have sex with whomever she wants whenever she wants, and the husband has no say in the matter. Further, he is humiliated by the experience. This isn't what my wife and I are looking for.

Some might call what you are looking for a polyamorous v-triad; you love your wife, she loves you, and she loves another. You've indicated your wife wishes to have some form of emotional bond with the person she has sex with. So, this definition might be more along the lines of what you're looking for.

Some might call it an open marriage. Some might call it swinging. There's a zillion possible definitions for what you are looking for.

Regardless, what you are looking for is well within the realm of what the people here have to offer in the form of answers to questions. You're already in the right place. So, ask away! We're happy to help, and there's plenty of people here who will give excellent advice.

psycdr · August 23, 2010

cplnuswing and Cajun2Step are spot on with their advice about coworkers. Unfortunately, it's already happened between your lovely wife and her coworker.

It's a bad idea to mix swinging and coworkers. There are PLENTY of single men in the lifestyle. It can be a trick to find really good ones that you want to keep around for a while (as you seem to suggest you and your wife are trying to do), but they are out there. My wife and I are looking for the same thing, and recently posted about it. We've heard from two couples posting here where the wives in their couples have been having sex with the same play partners for many years. It's certainly quite possible. There's no need to mix in a coworker to get what you want.

Now that it has happened though, I do hope it works out for you. If there's an opportunity to quietly end it though, I'd take it and move on.

Well like you said we are already into it. The reason this was so appealing to my wife was that it was someone she knew and trusted. Going through a service or club seemed overwhelming to us being this was our first try at the lifestyle.

Some might call it cuckolding. It depends on what one thinks cuckolding is. To some, cuckolding is the wife getting to have sex with whomever she wants whenever she wants, and the husband has no say in the matter. Further, he is humiliated by the experience. This isn't what my wife and I are looking for.

I thought this as well, but like you and your wife, this is NOT what we want. I am not into the humiliation, nor does my wife want to be pleasured by many men, she does like to know the person before moving to the physical part. Finally, I can always say NO and that was agreed upon by both of us before we even began experimenting.

Some might call what you are looking for a polyamorous v-triad; you love your wife, she loves you, and she loves another. You've indicated your wife wishes to have some form of emotional bond with the person she has sex with. So, this definition might be more along the lines of what you're looking for.

I looked at this as well, but my wife does not "love" the other person, she just wants to be friends and get to know them before being physical. There is no dating (i.e. going on a trip together). They may go to a bar, but that would most likely be it. My wife made a very insightful comment; she said "I like this because I can be the user and not the used one". What she was essentially saying was that, before she met me and we got married, whenever she dated there was always that fear of breaking up or not working out or being cheated on. Essentially what most people feel when dating with the expectation of the longer commitment (marriage in our case). In what we are doing now, none of the baggage is there, so now she can enjoy the physical pleasure without caring if the guy says "I don't want to see you again."

Some might call it an open marriage. Some might call it swinging. There's a zillion possible definitions for what you are looking for.

Regardless, what you are looking for is well within the realm of what the people here have to offer in the form of answers to questions. You're already in the right place. So, ask away! We're happy to help, and there's plenty of people here who will give excellent advice.

Thank you all for your insight and comments. I have may more questions as does my wife. This is a journey that we are starting on and want to make the right decisions as we go.

We are enjoying the moment and hope there will be more to come...

I do have more questions which I will ask later on.

sweet_tna · August 23, 2010

First of all, welcome aboard! As you can see, there isn't really a clear definition of what a swinger is, because there are so many different approaches to the lifestyle. And as such, most of us eschew labels.

That said, here's what I've gotten from your posts here:

1) You and your wife are exploring her fantasies of you seeing her with another man. This is a very common fantasy, and why many people begin to explore the lifestyle.

2) Your wife needs more than just a base physical attraction to anyone she has sex with. Again, this is also common, as many couples prefer to make friends with potential playmates before actually having sex with them. I'm gonna' have to agree with my fellow board members here on the sex with coworkers being a bad idea. But as long as it's working for you, enjoy it.

3) You love each other and are communicating your thoughts and feelings to each other about all of this. Wonderful! This is oh so important for couples in the lifestyle.

4) Your wife has expressed interest in sex with other women, both alone and with you watching, and possibly participating. This too, is typical for couples exploring the lifestyle. It's like being a kid in a candy store. Once you've tried the lemon drops, you start wondering what the salt water taffy and chocolate bars might taste like.

5) Sex between you and your wife has heated up considerably, as you explore your fantasies and talk about her/your experiences. Yet again, this is par for the course, and a good sign for ya'll.

6) You chose a website called Swingers Board on which to post your experiences and questions. Interesting choice there, Doctor.

After careful observation, I have a diagnosis. Ya'll are swingers, at least in my book. Best of luck to ya'll, and feel free to keep those questions coming.

mikeandjenn2001 · August 24, 2010

There is not a single definition of swinging, or some criteria to be meet to consider something swinging. And I don't really think it matters what you call it. If you are both having fun and remaining honest with each other and it all works for you, does it really matter if it fits other peoples definition of swinging?

That said, I would think what your doing would be considered swinging, it may not be the way most people swing, but surely some swing that way. We each have our own kinks and ways of doing things, so as long as it works for the two of you (and your partners) then go for it.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Call it swinging if you want, or don't...as long as it works for you two is all that should matter.

fun4Ds · August 24, 2010

Welcome to the Swingers Board, psycdr.

Although I can't say you are "swinging", I can say some alternatives in your relationship are certainly at hand now.

My questions, given the circumstances at this point...

Does this new playmate know with total disclosure about what is transpiring, sexually?

What is your opinion of this man's character?

psycdr · August 24, 2010

Welcome to the Swingers Board, psycdr.

Does this new playmate know with total disclosure about what is transpiring, sexually?

Yes most certainly he knows, my wife has made it very clear to him on several occasions what this is about and that it is not going anywhere from a "relationship" perspective. He even knows that this is a fantasy of mine. One of our rules was full disclosure to the partner so no one felt used or misled.

What is your opinion of this man's character?

I can not say as I have not personally met him. My wife trusts him and has a high regard for him, and really that's all I need to know.

bbarnsworth · August 24, 2010

Going through a service or club seemed overwhelming to us being this was our first try at the lifestyle.

It can be overwhelming. Filtering through all the single males can be a daunting task. I know. I've spent hours pre-filtering single males for my wife. She's always in the loop of course, and we're agreed on base criteria. From there, there's meet and greets with people you've never met before. You try to develop a connection, a chemistry. It just takes a lot of time and effort to find the right one(s). Sometimes it can get quite frustrating; all this work, and seemingly limited progress. It is worth it though, in our opinion.

She does like to know the person before moving to the physical part. ... I looked at this as well, but my wife does not "love" the other person, she just wants to be friends and get to know them before being physical.

This is very common in the lifestyle. There are some swingers that are happy to jump into a pile of naked bodies and let whomever do whatever. There are some swingers that prefer to spend a considerable amount of time developing a pretty good friendship before moving on to more physical play. The vast majority of swingers are somewhere between those extremes. Your wife sounds like she's between those extremes. Par for the course.

Essentially what most people feel when dating with the expectation of the longer commitment (marriage in our case). In what we are doing now, none of the baggage is there, so now she can enjoy the physical pleasure without caring if the guy says "I don't want to see you again."

Interesting observation, and one I've never seen put to words here before. Excellent!

I do have more questions which I will ask later on.

Ask away! We're happy to help.

By the way, Dr. Sweet is right; you're swingers. Treatment; lots of sex

Reading everything you posted, I don't see many any real problems jumping out at me except the co-worker part. The co-worker part alarms me, and would be a complete non-starter for my wife and I.

I understand the motivation in the co-worker. It's comfortable territory. The person's a known quantity to a degree, and there's already a familiarity with them. But, there's huge risks involved that completely upset the comfort cart for us. What happens if this relationship goes sour? What impact will it have on your wife's job? Her ability to get other work in the same field if she has to leave the job? What is the effect on your financial situation if she is suddenly terminated? There's a lot of variables there with co-workers that just make them very dangerous to play with. Control and power over the situation does not rest solely with you. With non co-workers, you can sever the relationship at any point almost always without repercussions. That is a comfort. Just food for thought for you.

As for trusting your wife's perception of this fellow; that's great, and I see no reason to not trust her opinion of him. That said, if she continues to play with him I think it would be a very good idea for all three of you to meet together. Often. This guy is not a swinger. Keep that in mind. Single swinging males generally understand the 'rules' as it were before getting really involved in the lifestyle. A vanilla (non-swinger) guy may not. To him, he's getting some fun sex with a beautiful lady...not swinging. There's a massive difference there and that can lead to big problems down the road. Even though your wife has explained to him just what the score is, meeting him in person may help to make it crystal clear. I've seen reports of some single guys getting into a situation like that, thinking to themselves that the husband must be some idiotic fool who can't satisfy his wife's sexual needs, and starts working on some way to get her to leave him. Worst case scenario may be, but it happens. Too often.

Another aspect to this in regards to the future; As I mentioned earlier, my wife and I are looking for a long term play partner for her. This would be someone she can have sex with as often as she likes (and he's available), and we imagine often playing solo with him. It can be very difficult (we think especially for a woman, just observation with no sexism intended) to have sex with someone many, many times without beginning to develop some sense of love for that person. We have no problem with that. If she loves her play partner, that's fine. If he loves her, that's fine too. Where we draw the line is in any form of love that smacks of possessiveness, romantic intentions, desires for exclusivity, etc. A friend is a person whom you love. It's not the love of a romantic relationship, but it's love. You should probably discuss this with your wife, and see how you both feel about the natural development of feelings.

snapps · August 25, 2010

Personally speaking, and also speaking from experience.... It was NOT a good idea to allow your wife to do this with her co-worker!... She is with him 8+ hours a day; which is obviously more time than she even spends with you on any given work day.... Think about it! And try to think with your brains rather than your hormones! If you honestly think she won't be getting strong feelings for this guy, & vice versa, after awhile (if she hasn't already)... then you are sadly mistaken... It may start off as just sex and fun, but trust me when i say that things can change quite easily and very quickly without you realizing. Especially in that kind of environment!... You can't control the heart, and you honestly do not know what's really going on other than what she is telling you, especially because you don't even have any kind of relationship with the guy... Just like the poster before me stated, how do you know this man isn't thinking you are some kinda chump that is unable to satisfy his wife, thus she is coming to him for sex and possibly a whole lot more! Also, seeing as your wife is seeking an "emotional" connection with this person, you really, really, REALLY, should rethink this because you are seriously playing with fire! Those "emotional feelings & connections" she is seeking should be reserved for you... her husband! Not some co-worker! What do you think would honestly happen right now if you were to ask her to cut things off with him? It's gonna be kinda hard won't it? seeing as "THEY WORK TOGETHER!"

Again, I'm speaking from experience, and I feel for you bro cause I recently went through almost the exact same thing and it nearly ruined my marriage. As a matter of fact, IT DID! but I am still doing my best to hold it all together and learn from that mistake and trying my best to move on. If you guys plan to move on with this lifestyle, and somehow move past this incident.... I seriously hope that you never, ever, mess with or allow your spouse to talk to another co-worker again!...

Furthermore, if this was something you absolutely had to allow or do... Then I just think it would've been a good idea to actually have met him before it all transpired... In person that is, if just to at least shake his hand and to let him indeed know that you are on board with the situation, and for him to know without a doubt that there is a line that cannot be crossed!... You should have at least done that before anything transpired between him and your wife at her job... This should go without saying man....

Good luck though... and I do hope it all works out for ya... But if it doesn't... you are gonna be the one kicking yourself, and be left with the short end of the stick bro... especially since you are here solely fantasizing about your wife, and not yourself; while allowing for this to happen and go as far as it did; nor are you even looking for any action of your own with another female... just like I once was... again, good luck man.

psycdr · August 26, 2010

She is with him 8+ hours a day; which is obviously more time than she even spends with you on any given work day... Think about it! And try to think with your brains rather than your hormones!

First let me thank you for your response, I appreciate your concern, and for the record we know it may have not been the best choice, but we were not ready to try a club and we did not know where else to go. She did not want to try this with some stranger, she wanted to really get to know the person and get very comfortable with them and trust them. Furthermore there are a few things wrong with your statements/assumptions, first, my wife does not work full time, she works 20-25 hours a week, second, she does not work in the same department as he does, so their time at work is limited, third, I did think with my brain, my wife an I had long conversations about this before it even happened. Fourth, this is not my wife's career job, it is just a job to have until my youngest starts school whereupon she will leave and go back to her full time job, so if she has to leave because it got weird, no big loss. In addition to this, I also use to work where she does (I helped her get the job) so I know how much she interacts with this person.

If you honestly think she won't be getting strong feelings for this guy, & vice versa, after awhile (if she hasn't already)... then you are sadly mistaken... It may start off as just sex and fun, but trust me when i say that things can change quite easily and very quickly without you realizing. Especially in that kind of environment!... You can't control the heart, and you honestly do not know what's really going on other than what she is telling you, especially because you don't even have any kind of relationship with the guy... Just like the poster before me stated, how do you know this man isn't thinking you are some kinda chump that is unable to satisfy his wife, thus she is coming to him for sex and possibly a whole lot more!

I must start my response to this with: I ABSOLUTELY, WITHOUT A DOUBT, TRUST MY WIFE. Having said that though, you are absolutely correct, things can change very quickly, but my wife and I communicate regularly on this and we check in with each other on our feelings, specifically my feelings towards her and him as well as her feelings towards him and me. If it were to start to go down that road one of us would end it. If she ultimately leaves me, then there was something else wrong in our relationship that had nothing to do with our "swinging".

Also, seeing as your wife is seeking an "emotional" connection with this person, you really, really, REALLY, should rethink this because you are seriously playing with fire! Those "emotional feelings & connections" she is seeking should be reserved for you... her husband! Not some co-worker! What do you think would honestly happen right now if you were to ask her to cut things off with him? It's gonna be kinda hard won't it, seeing as "THEY WORK TOGETHER!?"

When we talk about an "emotional" connection, we are not talking about holding hands or being in love, we are strictly talking about some type of connection that allows her to trust this person. She has not been with another sexual partner in over 18 years and this was a big step for her, so she needed to trust the person, and to earn that trust, you must have some type of "emotional" connection. I should also remind you that this all started with MY fantasy, I was the one that engaged her on this type of life, she did not come to me and say, "Hey can I f*** this guy I work with?"... It was not like that at all...

Again, I'm speaking from experience, and I feel for you bro cause I recently went through almost the exact same thing and it nearly ruined my marriage. As a matter of fact, IT DID! But I am still doing my best to hold it all together and learn from that mistake and trying my best to move on. If you guys plan to move on with this lifestyle, and somehow move past this incident.... I seriously hope that you never, ever, mess with or allow your spouse to talk to another co-worker again!

I am terribly sorry you are going through this, it must be very painful and I am sure when you read my post it brought back a lot of painful feelings. Before i was married I dated a girl that cheated on me and I remember what that is like, I can only assume yours is much worse. I hope you and your wife are receiving some type of counseling, it could really help with maintaining the marriage. My thoughts are with you and your wife...

Furthermore, if this was something you absolutely had to allow or do... Then I just think it would've been a good idea to actually have met him before it all transpired... In person that is, if just to at least shake his hand and to let him indeed know that you are on board with the situation, and for him to know without a doubt that there is a line that cannot be crossed!... You should have at least done that before anything transpired between him and your wife at her job... This should go without saying man....

In retrospect that would have been a good idea, and my wife and I actually recently spoke about it. We are considering doing just that.

Good luck though... and I do hope it all works out for ya... But if it doesn't... you are gonna be the one kicking yourself, and be left with the short end of the stick... especially since you are here solely fantasizing about your wife, and not yourself; while allowing for this to happen and go as far as it did; nor are you even looking for any action of your own with another female... just like i once was... again, good luck man...

Thanks again for your feedback, this is exactly why I came here, to get honest feedback from individuals with experience.

snapps · August 26, 2010

Thanks again for your feedback, this is exactly why I came here, to get honest feedback from individuals with experience.

Well, I'm glad you appreciated my post, and yes, reading your post did bring back those memories and raised my eyebrows, and made me respond to your post... Again, I wish you the best of luck... Communication and Trust is definitely important, and it seems you and your wife have that, so I definitely envy you!... Good Luck!

Cajun2Step · August 28, 2010

As for trusting your wife's perception of this fellow; that's great, and I see no reason to not trust her opinion of him. That said, if she continues to play with him I think it would be a very good idea for all three of you to meet together. Often. This guy is not a swinger. Keep that in mind. Single swinging males generally understand the 'rules' as it were before getting really involved in the lifestyle. A vanilla (non-swinger) guy may not. To him, he's getting some fun sex with a beautiful lady...not swinging. There's a massive difference there and that can lead to big problems down the road. Even though your wife has explained to him just what the score is, meeting him in person may help to make it crystal clear. I've seen reports of some single guys getting into a situation like that, thinking to themselves that the husband must be some idiotic fool who can't satisfy his wife's sexual needs, and starts working on some way to get her to leave him. Worst case scenario may be, but it happens. Too often.

Another aspect to this in regards to the future; As I mentioned earlier, my wife and I are looking for a long term play partner for her. This would be someone she can have sex with as often as she likes (and he's available), and we imagine often playing solo with him. It can be very difficult (we think especially for a woman, just observation with no sexism intended) to have sex with someone many, many times without beginning to develop some sense of love for that person. We have no problem with that. If she loves her play partner, that's fine. If he loves her, that's fine too. Where we draw the line is in any form of love that smacks of possessiveness, romantic intentions, desires for exclusivity, etc. A friend is a person whom you love. It's not the love of a romantic relationship, but it's love. You should probably discuss this with your wife, and see how you both feel about the natural development of feelings.

You need to read the above quote over and over.

We knew a couple in west central Louisiana (notice we said knew a couple, they are no longer together) who started a relationship like you have described that you gave your wife permission to have play in with a co-worker.

The co-worker playmate got possessive and the wife liked his attention and possessiveness. Result the original husband and wife are no longer a couple. The wife and her play-toyboy are now together.

Conclusion: There are some, in our opinions, serious ramifications that you may face in the future if you are not very careful.

Good Luck!!

Lache pa la patate!

jovichick · September 2, 2010

First let me introduce myself, I am psycdr's wife. I also would like to thank everyone for all of your feedback. It has helped us continue to ask questions and redefine our rules.

So as my husband has said before, the idea of us having an open marriage has been a topic of conversation for many years. When he first told me of his fantasy, I was initially shocked and excited at the same time. I knew if I was going to walk through that door it had to be just the right situation and person and then when the time was right I would know it. This is exactly what happened.

I know that there are several of you who are concerned about my boy-toy being a co-worker. If I may clarify a few facts; first, we have worked together for almost 2 years, our work environment is such that our paths cross but were are not in a typical office space. There has been flirting back and forth, which I immediately disclosed to my husband. A conversation presented itself that allowed for me to disclose that my husband and I have an open marriage. This obviously intrigued the Boy-Toy and he stepped up the flirting and teasing. I have made it clear to him that we are not to share this with other co-workers, and if I ever feel that he has broken that agreement, our arrangement would end. He has agreed and I have not felt that he has disclosed our relationship to others.

I feel that this relationship will run it is natural course and he will eventually want to move on to a more traditional relationship with someone else, or I will want to have a new adventure, and I am not sure if I want more than one boy-toy at any given time. We have no concerns about continuing to work together. We check in with each other regularly about where our feelings are at. However, if there was uncomfortable tension I do have the flexibility to arrange my schedule to minimize our interaction. We have had to work collaboratively since we have been together, and yes there is some intensity, which I love. I feel that none of this has had a negative effect on my work. Again, I have been completely open with my husband about any exchanges between him and me.

My boy-toy has asked what does my husband say after we have been together. He appears to be comfortable with the rules. I have also asked if he would be willing to meet my husband; he is obviously nervous about the idea, but said if that is what we wanted he would do it.

Before I decided to proceed with the him, my husband and I discussed the boundaries at length. For me I needed to know the person and have some sort of connection and attraction to him. I also like that I have the upper hand in this relationship, I can meet with him and not worry if he is not going to call the next day, because I don't care, there is no baggage with this relationship, no expectations, just pure enjoyment. I made it clear to both males that I needed to take baby steps and sit with each encounter to evaluate my feelings before going further.

The first encounter I decided to meet with my boy-toy and we spent most of it discussing the rules, and stressing to him that this was not about my husband not meeting my needs but it was a mutual decision to enhance our marriage. He asked lots of question and clarified the boundaries. I also made sure we were in a semi-private place which would not allow it to go too far physically. The first encounter was strictly kissing.

When I returned home the first moment through the door was the most intense; I felt guilty smiling and liking the attention; my husbands reaction was one of kindness, patience and and a little bummed it did not go further. The second time we met in the same place, and again we checked in with each other, and continued to discuss the rules of this arrangement. The second time was easier, and it did go further, but not all of the way, because, again I wanted to take gradual steps. Allowing another man after 15 years to touch me sexually is a big step and I wanted to be sure that I could handle it emotionally. Again, walking through the door and into our bedroom was intense and I was hoping my husband would be pleased with the result of the second encounter, and he was.

The third time was the big one, and while in the moment it was great, my new partner was completely respectful, following all the rules, and asking throughout if he was crossing any boundaries. In addition he made no requests of me. He actually got really nervous and needed some extra time before he could perform, for some reason I was pleased with that because I felt he was being real. Afterwards. he was anxious to know what my husbands response would be. I will admit I love the intensity of the whole thing,

I have to says this whole experience has opened the lines of communication between my husband and I to a level I didn't know was possible. I love being able to share these experiences with him and explore new adventures to enhance our sex life. I am now very excitedly anxious for my husband to have his own encounter. I am also hoping that this will allow me to work through my own insecurities and eventually true acceptance of myself. I am also excited about the possibility of going to a swingers club with my husband and engaging in some voyeurism (which a personal fav of mine) and then having at it with him at the club.

Looking forward to your feedback.

bbarnsworth · September 2, 2010

First let me introduce myself, I am psycdr's wife. I also would like to thank everyone for all of your feedback. It has helped us continue to ask questions and redefine our rules.

First, a great big and we are VERY glad you're here! We're happy to help in any way we can.

I have also asked if he would be willing to meet my husband, he is obviously nervous about the idea, but said if that is what we wanted he would do it.

At this point, I wouldn't make it optional. It needs to happen for a variety of reasons.

... and stressing to him that this was not about my husband not meeting my needs but it was a mutual decision to enhance our marriage. He asked lots of question and clarified the boundaries.

Referring to earlier posts, explaining what the rules are and why you are doing this is very different than seeing you and your husband together in front of him, obviously happily in love with each other. Saying it to him is one thing. Him seeing it is quite another.

I was hoping my husband would be pleased with the result of the second encounter, and he was.

My wife and I have discussed the 'why's many times. We've both made it clear to each other that we are in swinging because we each, individually, want to be. It is also something that we do for each other, because both of us enjoy the other's desire to be and play in the lifestyle. But, the first is more important. I'm not detecting any sense that you're doing this for your husband, but that he does enjoy it so much is a benefit to you as well. That's good. Make sure it stays that way.

Afterwards. he was anxious to know what my husbands response would be.

And here's where I see newbie written all over him. Being a newbie isn't bad. I am concerned though that he doesn't fully understand what it means to be a swinger. As I noted earlier, there is a big difference between a non-swinger having fun with some guy's wife, and a swinger having consensual sex with a married woman. His understanding of himself in this regard may be very limited. I'm not saying don't play with him because of this. I'm saying there's a big learning curve in this for him too.

I have to says this whole experience has opened the lines of communication between my husband and I to a level I didn't know was possible. I love being able to share these experiences with him and explore new adventures to enhance our sex life.

This is a very common outcome of swinging experiences. It's the great taboo; so many marriages can't talk about sex in any depth, though they might have lots of sex in the marriage. They can't talk about fantasies, how great something feels or doesn't feel, etc. Swinging crashes through those barriers. You have to have great communication before swinging to have a decent chance of being successful swingers. But, once you start swinging the communication really opens up even more.

I am now very excitedly anxious for my husband to have his own encounter.

Don't count on it. Women in the lifestyle have a relatively easy time finding encounters, people to play with, etc. Your husband finding a single female to play with is unlikely. It is much more likely that most, if not all, of his encounters with other women will be in the context of a foursome.

That doesn't imply a problem. That's just the way the lifestyle is.

Personally, if the rest of my swinging experiences in my life all had to do with my wife getting to play and me not having any like encounters with women, I'd be ok with that. I thoroughly enjoy participating in MFMs and solo play, enjoying it vicariously through her pleasure. There are many men who deeply enjoy their wives being 'naughty', having a boy-toy on the side, etc. I'm one of them. I suspect your husband is too.

I am also hoping that this will allow me to work through my own insecurities and eventually true acceptance of myself.

My wife had some insecurity about her physical beauty before we started swinging. This is quite common. She wasn't insecure in any other respect. Once she saw how many men wanted to have sex with her, and how many men wanted to have sex with her again after she'd played with them, her insecurity vanished.

I am also excited about the possibility of going to a swingers club with my husband and engaging in some voyeurism (which a personal fav of mine) and then having at it with him at the club.

Sounds like good times

jovichick · September 2, 2010

This is experience has been so liberating and has allowed me to work through some issue, enjoy some great sex, and feel more connected to my husband. I am excited to see what the future holds.

psycdr · September 3, 2010

F
Don't count on it. Women in the lifestyle have a relatively easy time finding encounters, people to play with, etc. Your husband finding a single female to play with is unlikely. It is much more likely that most, if not all, of his encounters with other women will be in the context of a foursome.

That doesn't imply a problem. That's just the way the lifestyle is.

Personally, if the rest of my swinging experiences in my life all had to do with my wife getting to play and me not having any like encounters with women, I'd be ok with that. I thoroughly enjoy participating in MFMs and solo play, enjoying it vicariously through her pleasure. There are many men who deeply enjoy their wives being 'naughty', having a boy-toy on the side, etc. I'm one of them. I suspect your husband is too.

bbarnsworth,

Thank you very much for your insight and advice. We are taking it very seriously. I do have a few related questions and since what I am looking for seems to be similar to what your looking for maybe you can answer our question; I am going to assume you go to swinging clubs, when involved in a "foursome" is there ever a time that it is not a foursome, but a twosome, essentially your wife goes off with the male, but you do not go off with the female? In order to meet my wife's fantasy, would it be possible for us to go to a club and I end up "playing" with a female while my wife does not participate in any way shape or form? We thought of going to a club or even posting on a swingers board, but we were not sure if etiquette would not allow that.

I hope that makes sense.

bbarnsworth · September 3, 2010

I am going to assume you go to swinging clubs, when involved in a "foursome." Is there ever a time that it is not a foursome, but a twosome, where essentially your wife goes off with the male, but you do not go off with the female? In order to meet my wife's fantasy, would it be possible for us to go to a club and I end up "playing" with a female while my wife does not participate in any way shape or form? We thought of going to a club or even posting on a swingers board, but we were not sure if etiquette would not allow that.

My wife and I have been to three swinging clubs, multiple times with two of them. We're hoping to make the third a multiple time, but logistics are in the way (>1500 miles). Anyway...

All sorts of combinations happen at swing clubs. It's more common for two couples to go off together than for one couple to grab the male or female of another couple and head off, but that does happen too. I've not personally seen this though. Sometimes a male A/female B pair can go off to play separately while the other male B/female A pair don't play together. I would venture to guess that scenario is more common than an MFM leaving the F behind, or FMF leaving the M behind.

We once came close to setting up a play date with a couple where the wife of the other couple and I were just going to be spectators while my wife and her husband had fun. Didn't work out, but it would have been fine with all of us.

The choices are yours; you won't be violating any etiquette in trying for such pairings. It's up to you and your wife. If you find willing partners, then great. If not, then great too. You should never go to a swing club expecting you're going to have sex with somebody new. Instead, go with the hope of having a good time, and that's it. Swing clubs can be electric (except Amish ones...ha! couldn't resist ) in their atmosphere. It can be fun just to watch all that goes on when there's a big crowd.

Sidebar: the first time I went to a swing club I knew quite a bit, on paper, about swinging. But, I had an experience which dramatically qualified what swinging is all about. Shortly after we arrived, I witnessed an attractive woman go up to a stripper pole and do a wonderful strip dance. Run of the mill stuff you would see at a strip club you might say. But, this was radically different. She wasn't being paid to do it. She was doing it for the pure enjoyment of doing it.

There's an excellent article on here somewhere (somebody help!) covering going to a swing club the first time, what to expect, etc. Great article. I can't find it right now though.

fun4Ds · September 4, 2010

bbarnsworth said:

There's an excellent article on here somewhere (somebody help!) covering going to a swing club the first time, what to expect, etc. Great article. I can't find it right now though.

Is this the thread you are referring to? What advice do you have for newbies going to a swingers club for the first time?

There are many good posts in the Swinging at Clubs, Socials, and Hotels forum.

But I agree with bbarbsworth, there are many possible outcomes at any clubs.

Are you looking into the possibility that finding you a female swing partner would be simplified at a club?

LikeMinds321 · September 8, 2010

Furthermore, if this was something you absoluetly had to allow or do... Then I just think it would've been a good idea to actually have met him before it all transpired... In person that is, if just to at least shake his hand and to let him indeed know that you are on board with the situation, and for him to know without a doubt that there is a line that cannot be crossed!... You should have at least done that before anything transpired between him and your wife at her job...
In retrospect that would have been a good idea, and my wife and I actually recently spoke about it. We are considering doing just that.

That you haven't met this man, or even spoken to him, is my biggest concern.

Don't be surprised, after you and he do meet, that the relationship between your wife and him changes. He may not find the sexual attraction for your wife as great after meeting you.

When a man starts a sexual relationship with a woman, without first having discussed this arrangement openly with the husband, a man may still have a fantasy going on in his mind that he is having an affair, that he is meeting your wife without your knowledge, that your wife is cheating on you and finds him more desirable than you. That fantasy can be very powerful and intoxicating. It can make the sex hotter, the "taken" woman more desirable. Especially if the man is not a swinger.

This phenomenon has nothing to do with how much he believes what your wife tells him, it has to do with what he may be imagining in his mind. Your wife says she wants to "use" him. His use of her may be this cheating fantasy in his mind.

You and your wife may see this as exciting, and decide you'll never meet him, because after you do it may change the dynamics of the present arrangement.

My point in bringing this up, is that you have already gone beyond the moment that most of us, as swinging couples, address up front before any solo dating or sex begins. As a couple, we first both meet (or talk to) the new man who is going to be having sex with me.

snapps · September 8, 2010

That you haven't met this man, or even spoken to him, is my biggest concern.

Don't be surprised, after you and he do meet, that the relationship between your wife and him changes. He may not find the sexual attraction for your wife as great after meeting you.

When a man starts a sexual relationship with a woman, without first having discussed this arrangement openly with the husband, a man may still have a fantasy going on in his mind that he is having an affair, that he is meeting your wife without your knowledge, that your wife is cheating on you and finds him more desirable than you. That fantasy can be very powerful and intoxicating. It can make the sex hotter, the "taken" woman more desirable. Especially if the man is not a swinger.

This phenomenon has nothing to do with how much he believes what your wife tells him, it has to do with what he may be imagining in his mind. Your wife says she wants to "use" him. His use of her may be this cheating fantasy in his mind.

You and your wife may see this as exciting, and decide you'll never meet him, because after you do it may change the dynamics of the present arrangement.

My point in bringing this up, is that you have already gone beyond the moment that most of us, as swinging couples, address up front before any solo dating or sex begins. As a couple, we first both meet (or talk to) the new man who is going to be having sex with me.

I agree with everything Likeminds stated here. Meeting with this guy now is more or less worthless and can only make things take a drastic turn or bring things/thoughts to the forefront very quickly. If you are ok with the way things are now without ever meeting with him, well then I suppose all you can/should do now is ride the wave. In reality you meeting with him now is going to be like you being a third wheel, and all its going to do is make you look small or might even irritate the guy. You really have no say in their relationship. It's kind of like you have a "cuckold" type thing going on to be honest. Are you seeking a MFM or something? Or maybe MMF? Whatever the case, I don’t think this guy is going to go for it or be ok with it, seeing as his relationship is with your wife, not with you.

You really should have met him before all of this started; this is why I still feel like you are/were playing with fire when I first read this thread. I understand you said you trusted your wife, and I'm sure that's fine and I am not doubting you on this... But again... you REALLY DO NOT Know what's going on! I'm just saying. And furthermore, and to get back to this thread's topic.... NO! This is NOT swinging... This is you simply giving your wife permission to, well to put it bluntly, to fuck someone at her job, or better yet, to cheat on you, but with permission. My only hope is that it remains just a "fuck" and doesn’t turn into something else seeing as you admitted to her having an emotional connection with this guy, this is very serious bro... Trust me.

Again, you don’t even know the guy. Seriously, this is just bad in my opinion. But again, I wish ya’ll the best of luck.... Seeing as you claimed she now has an emotional attachment with this guy... How do you think he is feeling about her?... Be careful bro... And again, good luck!...

psycdr · September 8, 2010

I would like to thank everyone for your responses. Just as a status update, we have decided to proceed with me meeting her boy-toy. She has spoken to him and he is open to the idea; at this point it is just a matter of timing. My wife still plays with him and we still have very hot sex, we have also started talking about what will be the next step in our sexual evolution.

Right now we are just riding the wave and it is very very good. Whenever she meets her boy-toy, she checks in with him on his emotional status and reinforces that he is just a "F-toy" to her. He has accepted this and continues to verify the rules and asks for confirmation that he has not crossed the line.

Ultimately I trust my wife and as I have stated before, if this blows up in my face then there was something else wrong with our marriage completely unrelated to swinging.

I will continue to provide updates as will my wife (JoviChick).

FYI, we recently joined "Swing Life Style" and look forward to seeing where that takes us. JoviChick also wants to go to a club and do the voyeur thing...its a hot button for her in a very good way, and then jump me afterwords (at the club).

ALilOEverything · September 9, 2010

I remember several years ago I did the boy-toy thing. It was a lot of fun. He was a co-worker of mine too but we worked together A LOT. My husband at the time had finally met him after a few weeks. It was really awkward at first but they both did really well. It lasted about 5 months and then my new found friend found a regular girlfriend. I still see him day at work and we treat each other like nothing ever happened. Looking back I'm really lucky it worked out well because I can see so many ways it might not have.

jovichick · October 11, 2010

Sorry for no updates, just super busy. We are doing well. Psydoc has had an encounter, which was very exciting for me; it was a one time hook-up. My husband and I have had many late night talks, worked through some bumps - nothing major - just leads to more honesty and closeness I still have the boy toy whom I see once a week. So far it has been a great time. The boy toy continues to be respectful of all the rules. No lines have been crossed. Feelings are in check. I feel very in control of the situation. Looking forward to the next step.

snapps · October 18, 2010

Sorry for no updates, just super busy. We are doing well. Psydoc has had an encounter, which was very exciting for me, it was a one time hook-up. My husband and I have had many late night talks, worked through some bumps - nothing major - just leads to more honesty and closeness I still have the boy toy whom I see once a week. So far it has been a great time. The boy toy continues to be respectful of all the rules. No lines have been crossed. Feelings are in check. I feel very in control of the situation. Looking forward to the next step.

Well that's good. Thanks for the update. Continue to keep the communication going, and i hope everything continues to work for you guys... Good luck.

Chicup · November 28, 2010

I always nervous for open marriage style couples and find they often abruptly seem to disappear here, which, while not proof, doesn't help me feel better for their future.

I think the problem lies not when everything is going well, but when things are going badly. I've been with my wife for 20 years now, and while its been 99% good, that 1% would have been perhaps fatal if one of us had someone else's arms to fall into in a rough part.

So I wish you the best in this, but I've personally known people who were 'in control' with their relationships and then it all came crashing down. Some are still married, some are not, all were hurt.

I don't expect anyone to stop what they are doing in this, I feel like a Swingers Cassandra.

psycdr · November 28, 2010

Hello everyone,

It is still going well, we have had some bumps in the road that we had to work through but what is important is that we worked through it and it made us closer. Jovichick is still hooking up with her boy toy once a week and very recently had an encounter with him that was very "teen-age" as far as the sex is concerned. I am still very turned on by all of this and I am actively looking for a female toy, which I doubt I will ever find.

We continue to discuss next steps in our journey and we are looking into visiting a swingers club in the Chicago area to do some "watching" and then we can see where it will go from there if anywhere.

One other question we keep going back to, which was the initial question for this thread: Are we really swinging, and is it worthwhile to be visiting this site as we are not swinging as I understand it?

Another upside is I have become very self conscious of my physical appearance, went on a diet, and I have lost close to 20 pounds.

Chicup · November 28, 2010

Hello everyone,

It is still going well, we have had some bumps in the road that we had to work through but what is important is that we worked through it and it made us closer. Jovichick is still hooking up with her boy toy once a week and very recently had an encounter with him that was very "teen-age" as far as the sex is concerned. I am still very turned on by all of this and I am actively looking for a female toy, which I doubt I will ever find.

*sigh*

Ever since that fault I could persuade no one of aught.

We continue discuss next steps in our journey and we are looking into visiting a swingers club in the Chicago area to do some "watching" and then we can see where it will go from there if anywhere.

One other question we keep going back to, which was the initial question for this thread: are we really swinging, and is it worthwhile to be visiting this site as we are not swinging as I understand it?

Are you swinging? Not by most people's definition I think. This would be open marriage territory or cuckolding. That doesn't mean you won't find value here, not everyone here is strictly a swinger or has no experience in what you are talking about.

Another upside is I have become very self conscious on my physical appearance and went on a diet and I have lost close to 20 pounds.

That's pretty common in swinging too, and it is a helpful motivator.

psycdr · November 28, 2010

I should clarify one point: we are not opposed to swinging with another couple. What neither of us are ready for is having sex with others in the same room (i.e., same room swinging). We are both still a bit self conscious to take that step.

Lascivious L&L · December 1, 2010

I feel you are swinging. This is not really hotwife nor open marriage and certainly not cuckolding. The mutuality and complete communication are hallmarks of swinging.

I think this is one of the best examples on this board of a couple doing a thorough, caring, and careful job of breaking into swinging. I congratulate you two. I disagree with other poster's upset over the man being a co-worker. You two were very careful in that regard, and her need for someone she trusts trumps the risk of him being a limited contact co-worker.

I hope that you understand (and I trust with your background you do) that many posting here find it difficult to step out of their own personal experience and concepts, and see that you are in your own unique situation which is not the same as theirs. The co-worker polemics are one case in point. Whether you are swinging or not is another.

I applaud the care and consideration you've shown for each other and for those who have responded to you here. You two are welcome members here and I look forward to your adventures as well as your input to any threads that interest you.

psycdr · December 2, 2010

I feel you are swinging. This is not really hotwife nor open marriage and certainly not cuckolding. The mutuality and complete communication are hallmarks of swinging.

I think this is one of the best examples on this board of a couple doing a thorough, caring, and careful job of breaking into swinging. I congratulate you two. I disagree with other poster's upset over the man being a co-worker. You two were very careful in that regard, and her need for someone she trusts trumps the risk of him being a limited contact co-worker.

I hope that you understand (and I trust with your background you do) that many posting here find it difficult to step out of their own personal experience and concepts, and see that you are in your own unique situation which is not the same as theirs. The co-worker polemics are one case in point. Whether you are swinging or not is another.

I applaud the care and consideration you've shown for each other and for those who have responded to you here. You two are welcome members here and I look forward to your adventures as well as your input to any threads that interest you.

Wow... Thank you so much for the very kind words. We are really enjoying ourselves and hope to continue our journey.

psycdr · May 6, 2011

Another update...

We are still living our own version of swinging, JoviChick is still with her boy toy and usually see's him once a week. I still struggle with meeting someone who I can play with, but I can live with it. I am living vicariously through my wife.

We still discuss going to a swingers club, but have not taken the step.

Many of you mentioned that I should meet JoviChick's boy toy and in January I actually did meet him at a holiday party. He bought me a drink and we talked for about 45 minutes. He was very respectful and assured me he follows the rules that my wife explained to him.. At that party my wife did F*** him in a room at the hotel, while I waited in the lobby (the party was at the hotel). They went up, F***ed and then came back down to the party. We both really got a kick out of it, primarily because it was so risky to do it at the party.

Thanks for everyone's support...

Dont.Stop · May 6, 2011

Fascinating story. It sounds like (for your needs to be fulfilled) you should find and court a couple and do a separate room swap. Swing Lifestyle is probably the best way to do this. This would seem to go against what your wife is happy with at the moment, so it might be some time before you can proceed.

As an example, Mrs and I had meet and greets with three couples last week. One of those couples called us that weekend. We got back together for a visit to a club, got a private room for swap. We then went out for late night (early AM) pizza.

Another couple that we met we have arrangements for this weekend. But all of this is because we went out, had some drinks and decided the chemistry was there.

(For the record, the third couple introduced some drama and we terminated contact.)

You'll find that some couples like to move pretty quickly (some want to play on the first date). If you're browsing profiles, look for those who are interested in friendships as well as sex. This notion makes some swingers cringe, but it's clearly what the two of you are looking for. Whenever it is you decide to go looking.

Best of luck!

Chicup · May 6, 2011

I'm curious, more on a semantics side than a lifestyle side.

What you are doing is clearly NOT swinging, you state you are not comfortable with the idea, can't be in the same room, etc. There are several lifestyles this would fall under before swinging.

Is there a reason you would rather call yourself a swinger than the 'hot wife' type lifestyle?

psycdr · May 6, 2011

I'm curious, more on a semantics side than a lifestyle side.

What you are doing is clearly NOT swinging, you state you are not comfortable with the idea, can't be in the same room, etc. There are several lifestyles this would fall under before swinging.

Is there a reason you would rather call yourself a swinger than the 'hot wife' type lifestyle?

Well we consider ourselves swingers because we do want to participate in the lifestyle, we are just not ready for same room swap... we might work our way up to it or we might not. We are more open to the idea of a different room swap. My wife also wants a FF experience as well as a FMF experience.

I am turned on by watching my wife with someone (or the thought of it as I have yet to experience it), but I can not say for certain that my wife would be turned on by watching me with someone else.. She wants me to hook up with someone and I also want to hook up with someone, it is just the opportunity has only presented itself once and not again since then. The idea of watching her with someone is like watching porn, but better...

Like I said, we like the idea of swinging, but we have to "test the waters" and for us it starts with different room swap...

I hope that makes sense...

snapps · June 23, 2011

Hi again. It’s been awhile since I visited this thread, and I see a lot has been going on. So just wanted to give my two cents. This has now been going on for well over a year, and you are only recently meeting this guy? Furthermore, your wife and him, still isn’t comfortable enough to have you at least watch?

I really don’t see how this can be classified as swinging. I would say cuckolding, but even that's not the case in this situation as she’s not even allowing you to even enjoy the show. This can’t be hot-wife either, cause truthfully, it doesn’t seem like you have much say in it, all you get is the satisfaction of maybe "knowing" what’s going on. Truthfully speaking, how can this be enough for you, especially when it’s been going on this long? I'll take your word for it when you say the guy remains respectful about yall’s rules, but i still don’t like this situation, and I don’t see how you can be ok with it going on for so long, or even going on at all.

Furthermore, this guy is supposedly a single male… are you sure he doesn’t see your wife as his possession? I mean why is a single guy wasting time with a married woman when he should be looking for his own possession? Unless of course he already feels he has a possession… I’m just saying you can be really cutting it close with this one, and all the while be secretly getting played for a fool and laughed at behind your back. Seeing as you aren’t even getting any side-action of your own (and you for some reason think that’s ok) it comes off to me as you have some severe low self-esteem issues; the fact you stated you even lost weight in this process speaks volumes to me, and raises a lot of red flags.

Now I don’t mean to play devil's advocate here, but this is not making any sense... It's almost like you are simply giving your wife away to another man, for whatever your real reasons are, and you are ok with not getting anything back anything in return other than the stuff she’s telling you when she’s done getting pleased by her lover, someone she’s clearly ‘chosen over you’ and pleases her, because she keeps going back to him. It's like she's two-timing you or like you are giving her permission to cheat on you, this isn't even an open-marriage cause you aren't even getting any on the side... This makes you happy to know shes getting pleased by someone else other than you?

This is far beyond, and deeper, than anything swinging in my view. Swinging is the least of your concerns. This is you giving in to the fact you feel you are incapable of pleasing you wife, and now getting off on the fact another man is pleasing her, and she can't even give you the pleasure of at least watching. It’s been going on for over a year now bro, how can you honestly be ok with this? I have a strong feeling if you dare to tell her to stop seeing this man, you will be in for a rude awakening, but something tells me you don’t even have the drive to even go there with her in fear of losing her... I sincerely hope you guys don’t have children involved in all this.

For it to have been going on for over a year now, and you are only now meeting this guy, and he gets you a drink shortly before going to once again please your wife, and you still have yet to even experience it, or even see it ... I don’t know man, I don’t get it... It doesn’t make sense to me... Just a quick hypothetical question... is your wife happy with you in the bed, is she even happy with you as a person? I see a lot more red flags I can touch on, but I’ll leave it at this for now… Good luck…

Coupleerotic22 · June 23, 2011

Well if it works for you that is fine. But I have to admit it seems like a potential problem waiting to happen.

When I was a kid, I loved to play with fireworks, sunbursts, starburst, cluster bombs, rainbows, 1812's, all of them. The problem was that you could only find the good stuff a couple of times a year, MAX.

So I would to take my chemistry set and fathers gun powder I had "procured", then sneak off and make my own. It was not as satisfying as the real thing, but it was better than nothing I told myself.

Then one day it literally blew up in my and a neighborhood kid's face. We were okay, just some singed eyebrows and hair. But homemade fireworks sort of lost their luster after that.

Just be careful that this does not blow up in your face; you stand to loose much more than your eye brows.

snapps · June 24, 2011

Well if it works for you that is fine. But I have to admit it seems like a potential problem waiting to happen. Just be careful that this does not blow up in your face, you stand to lose much more than your eye brows.

And this is exactly my point. He obviously harbors some serious low self-esteem issues that he is choosing to ignore, and instead is choosing to move forward with this ridiculous thing that he thinks is a 'turn-on', blindly; and is even here trying to convince himself that what they are doing is swinging. It is not! He is thinking with his hormones, instead of his brain, and this is very dangerous territory he is quickly approaching. I feel he is being blatantly tricked and played for a fool. And as you stated, he is at risk of losing a whole lot more than he's already lost, including his self-respect if this news ever gets out to anyone he knows or even his family. He has no idea of the 'real' relationship that is going on behind his back, because as of now she has refused to even let him into the same room when they are together, and he is only recently meeting the guy face to face. It's really quite ridiculous, especially seeing as she is the only one having fun on the side. Yet he remains content.

Why would it not upset you, but instead turn you on, that your wife chooses to have sex at a work party (as risky as that is, as you put it), with her lover rather than with you? I don’t get it, it’s like he wants to be a cuckold, but without actually being able to enjoy the benefits, so instead just chooses to be her fool. I don’t get it. Surely people at her job have got to know what’s going on, and you are the sole person looking bad in this whole situation my friend.

If he is under the impression that they are having or doing is just sex, then he is going to be in for a rude awakening, and I know I won’t be surprised one bit, and I’m speaking from experience. No one carries on a relationship this long and it remains just sex my friend, NO ONE! I hope those 20 pounds he's lost prepares him for what I’m sure is soon to come. I still wish him the best for this situation, but i truly feel it's a tragedy waiting to happen, it's just a matter of time. And he continues to walk straight into it.

psycdr · July 10, 2011

I have been brewing over Snapps response for the past week. Not only am I insulted, I am extremely frustrated. So I will try to be as civilized with my response as possible. I should point out from the get go that I am a psychologist and my wife is a social worker. So lets begin….

You said:

This has now been going on for well over a year, and you are only recently meeting this guy? Furthermore, your wife and him, still isn’t comfortable enough to have you at least watch?

I actually met him in January. As far as watching, no she is not, and I am not pushing this. We are taking a journey and we must take baby steps. At some point she MIGHT be comfortable with it, but there is also the approval of the other party. I am totally turned on by watching her, but to be honest I am not really interested in seeing her fuck buddy naked or his dick. Not my thing (no offense to anyone who is into that).

You said:

Furthermore, this guy is supposedly a single male… are you sure he doesn’t see your wife as his possession?

Really? What century do you live in? I think slavery was outlawed on December 6, 1865 and women also got the right to vote on August 18, 1920. My wife is neither my possession nor his nor anyone else’s; she is her own individual who has the right to make her own decision on who she wants to fuck, including me. Did you know that a husband can be charged and convicted of raping his own wife?

You said:

Now I don’t mean to play devil's advocate here, but this is not making any sense... It's almost like you are simply giving your wife away to another man, for whatever your real reasons are, and you are ok with not getting anything back anything in return other than the stuff she’s telling you when she’s done getting pleased by her lover, someone she’s clearly ‘chosen over you’ and pleases her, because she keeps going back to him.

Sometimes she goes over at my request, because I am totally turned on by that. Who are you to question what turns me on or what I find sexually arousing? She also did try to video record it, but the quality sucked, so I just got audio. There may be a time that I can watch with someone else, but at this point we are just taking baby steps. We have discussed going to a swinging club and are VERY turned on by it, but we BOTH need to take this at our own pace.

You said:

And this is exactly my point... He obviously harbors some serious low self-esteem issues that he is choosing to ignore, and instead is choosing to move forward with this ridiculous thing that he thinks is a 'turn-on', blindly; and is even here trying to convince his self that what they are doing is swinging. It is not! He is thinking with his hormones, instead of his brain, and this is very dangerous territory he is quickly approaching. I feel he is being blatantly tricked and played for a fool.

Low self esteem? Are you nuts? Do you know me? No I don’t think so. I mentioned that I have lost some weight. Well in my profession I sit on my ass, and I gained some weight, but that DOES NOT MEAN that I have low self-esteem. It just means I gained some weight. My self-esteem is just fine, as is my sex life with my wife. Before we started this lifestyle we had sex maybe two to four times a month, now it is 2 to 3 times a week. We have a very healthy sexual life and because of this lifestyle, our relationship has gone to a different level, in a positive way.

You're quick to point out what is potentially wrong with my arrangement, but maybe you need to look at yourself. Your wife left you, and I am truly sorry for that, but what happened to you does not happen to everyone. My wife is NOT your wife and our marriage is not like yours. We are HAPPY with the arrangement and I love my wife and she loves me and I NEVER question that and that is all that matters to me.

I really think you need to speak to someone; you are obviously suffering from some issues based upon what happened to you. I have a question for you. If your wife left you, why do you continue to troll these boards? Please see a therapist you really need to…I am not saying this out of anger, but from genuine concern.

snapps · July 11, 2011

Let me respond to your points... But first of all, let me say this... If you took anything I said as an insult, I want to apologize, after all my main reason for posting in your thread to begin with was out of concern for you being played for a fool and taken advantage of as I once was, and of course trying to help/prevent you from making the same mistakes I made. Nowhere did I mean for anything I said to come off as an insult. So okay, moving on...

Low self esteem? Are you nuts? Do you know me? No I don’t think so… I mentioned that I have lost some weight. Well in my profession, I sit on my ass and I gained some weight, but that DOES NOT MEAN that I have low self-esteem. It just means I gained some weight. My self-esteem is just fine as is my sex life with my wife. Before we started this lifestyle we had sex maybe two to four times a month. Now it is 2 to 3 times a week. We have a very healthy sexual life and because of this lifestyle, our relationship has gone to a different level, in a positive way.

You may not see what is taking place as low self-esteem, but from your description, that's what I got from it, and if you are truly a psychologist, I would hope that you would at least be aware of this in some way. That's great that your sex life has picked up, but at what cost exactly? You had to give your wife away to another man, and continue to do so, for her sex drive to pick up for you? So, if she stops having sex with him, y'all's sex life is gonna turn back to shit? So you’re having sex 2-3 times a week now. Great! How does that compare to the amount of times she has sex with her lover? How do you know that what she is now giving you isn’t ‘pity’ sex to simply keep you satisfied and content so she can continue to do what she is doing with him? Is she even satisfied with you in the bed? If so why does she continue to go to him for sex? One would argue if you were doing your job and keeping your wife 100% satisfied, at least sexually, she would be incapable of even wanting anything else-where. From what I got from you, what your wife is getting from this man is a “NEED”, not a “WANT”, and that’s why it continues to happen and has gone on this long. This is far more than just sex. Have you even stopped to think about all these questions before trying to come make me look like a fool for questioning what it is you are doing, sir? Look, I'm happy for you that you wife is giving you more sex, but I just implore you to seriously take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

You're quick to point out what is potentially wrong with my arrangement, but maybe you need to look at yourself. Your wife left you, and I am truly sorry for that, but what happened to you does not happen to everyone. My wife is NOT your wife and our marriage is not like yours. We are HAPPY with the arrangement and I love my wife and she loved me and I NEVER question that and that is all that matters to me.

My wife did not leave me, sir; we are still together and she is trying to fix all the wrongs and MISTAKES she has made. Thanks for your obvious and glaring concerns. Again, my main point, first and foremost, in posting in your thread to begin with, was to help you realize that even your best intentions can be taken advantage of and go down the wrong road. Seeing as you have mentioned that you guys have experienced speed bumps already along the way only helps further my beliefs that you are indeed playing with fire.

I really think you need to speak to someone; you are obviously suffering from some issues based upon what happened to you. I have a question for you. If your wife left you, why do you continue to troll these boards? Please see a therapist. You really need to…I am not saying this out of anger, but from genuine concern..

Therapists & Psychologist have issues just like everyone else. Case in point!

Once again, my wife and I are still together. I do not consider what I'm doing on these boards as trolling, and just for the record, I've been on these boards longer than you have, and also quite more active, thanks. I am still very much interested in this lifestyle, and find it interesting, especially for those people that are posting experiences and are actually "swinging"... What you and your wife are doing is NOT swinging sir, and reminds me a lot of the mistakes I made...

Once again, I can see how/why you would get so defensive like you did and take my comments as some kind of insult on your manhood, but trust me, that was far from my intentions. You are playing with fire, whether you want to admit it or not, and I'm not the only one in this thread that had posted or voiced his/her concerns for what it is you are doing. EVERYONE knows when you play with fire; sooner or later you WILL be getting burnt. You are FREE to ignore all my warnings and concerns and keep going head-on with what you and your wife is doing. Just keep in mind that there was someone on these boards always playing devil’s advocate for the stuff that you continue to do and go along with. (Which AGAIN is NOT Swinging) That way, when the day comes, that this all blows up in your face, you will know that there was someone warning you about this all along…. Peace, and best wishes bro... Have a good one.

slevin · July 11, 2011

Is she even satisfied with you in the bed? If so why does she continue to go to him for sex?? One would argue if you were doing your job and keeping your wife 100% satisfied, at least sexually, she would be incapable of even wanting anything else-where…

I removed a lot of other leading questions. This one seems to boil down to the real point you were trying to make with all of those questions. It also flies in the face of this whole place. Are you saying that every couple here is not sexually satisfied at home? That there is some issue with each relationship since one, or both, parties are enjoying sex with someone other than their spouse?

I am not going to comment on the OP's situation here. I'll just say that it is definitely possible to have a great sex life at home and still enjoy/desire sex with other people. That, in itself, does not indicate an issue to me.

snapps · July 11, 2011

I removed a lot of other leading questions. This one seems to boil down to the real point you were trying to make with all of those questions. It also flies in the face of this whole place. Are you saying that every couple here is not sexually satisfied at home? That there is some issue with each relationship since one, or both, parties are enjoying sex with someone other than their spouse?

I am not going to comment on the OP's situation here. I'll just say that it is definitely possible to have a great sex life at home and still enjoy/desire sex with other people. That, in itself, does not indicate an issue to me.

I agree with you, especially if you are both on the same page and are both open to a 'fling' every now and then, that's what swinging is all about. However, I am solely talking about his situation, and in my opinion this becomes a valid concern and issue when it's with a co-worker and whereas it has continued and gone on as long as this situation has.

susanandsteve · July 11, 2011

I just plowed through this year long thread. You're a psychologist and she's a social worker? Really? Whoa, I mean wow, I mean whoa. That's simply too crazy. Okay, glad you're having fun, but things seem to have been the same for about a year. Yes, she had sex in a hotel while you waited in the lobby and you got some girl one time, but nothing too surprising has occurred.

So, does this mean you've found a neutral point where she's content and you're accepting that status quo ? Just asking. Lastly, glad that whatever you are doing that you are enjoying it.

jovichick · July 11, 2011

Dear Snapps,

This is the wife of psychdr. I have been thinking of how to respond to you. I didn't want to come off as defensive, but I am sure some of this will appear that way. One positive thing I can say about your post is that it did make for ongoing conversation, questions, and review of the rules. I can assure you my husband does not have a self-esteem issue. It is my belief that in order to engage in an alternative life style, one would have to have good self-esteem in themselves and confidence in their marriage. I guess I need to go back to the beginning. My husband joined this forum because it was there and seemed like a good place to start. The I idea of us having an "open marriage" started 7 years ago. I was very nervous about the idea. However, through many conversation, my husband felt brave enough to share his fantasy of me being with another man. So we had fun with the internet, and verbal scenarios during sex, and then finally I felt confident enough to try it. Even with that we took baby steps.

As for my co-worker, we probably see each at work maybe twice a week. We text occasionally, but usually about work. The times we hook up has become less, we go through spurts. The one comment you made that was disturbing to me was being the possession to him and my husband. That is an archaic mind set. I belong to me. This experience is totally about fulfilling a desire outside the box. I have brought home video, audio, and hot stories to share. He (co-worker) has stayed committed to the rules, never asked me to break them or do anything behind my husbands back. He does not ask for anything outside the scope of the arrangement.

We may not fit neatly into the swinging box, but I am not sure why that matters. Anyone on this board is living outside the conventional system of marriage. Not sure how you can sit in judgment of us, when you are doing the same thing.

Here is where I get defensive. How dare you accuse me of playing my husband for a fool... Doing things behind his back. You are blatantly calling me a liar. Pardon me, but you have no idea who I am. I am 100% committed to my husband. Yes there have been speed bumps, but it would be hard to imagine that anyone engage in this wouldn't. I feel those speed bumps only enhance our relationship because it forces conversations.

As far as what my husband gets out of this.. Well, he already answered that. I try to incorporate him as much as possible. We continue to look for a playmate for my husband, however this has been difficult. I We look forward to the next step whatever that may be.

I am completely satisfied with my husband sexually. He gives the best oral ever, as well as great intercourse. Being with my husband is totally different, we have been together for 15 years so there is a commitment there and a connection that no one can replace. You again are accusing me without knowing me.

I could go on, but I feel I said my piece. I wish you the best of luck in repairing your marriage. As a family therapist, people usually stray because there is something the other feels is absent or lacking.

jovichick · July 11, 2011

I just plowed through this year long thread. You're a psychologist and she's a social worker ? Really ? Whoa, I mean Wow, I mean whoa. That's simply too crazy. Okay, glad you're having fun, but things seem to have been the same for about a year. Yes, she had sex in a hotel while you waited in the lobby and you got some girl one time, but nothing too surprising has occurred.

So, does this mean you've found a neutral point where she's content and you're accepting that status quo ? Just asking. Lastly, glad that whatever you are doing that you are enjoying it.

Not a status quo, just trying to figure out what is next. We are both gun shy about being with a couple in the same room. The goal is to find my husband a playmate. We both like the idea of watching and then us being together. I (the wife) move slowly. We decided to let things take a natural course. We definitely enjoy the conversation and getting all hot bothered and having great sex.

Coupleerotic22 · July 12, 2011

Snapps - while I certainly would urge caution in this scenario, you made some leaps in your post that, while absolutely possible, are not the certainty that you paint.

From what psycdr and jovichick have written it is certainly prudent to draw their attention to potential pitfalls, but we in no way have enough information of direction knowledge of them to make such conclusions. In fact, I have often read psychologist and psychiatrist draw similar conclusion about lifestylers in general, which is ludicrous. No offense to psycdr, but it drives me nuts because they draw such sweeping generalities from little or no direct information. People and life's situations are just not so black and white or cut and dried.

Is it swinging? It is certainly not how we swing and not how the vast majority swing from what I can see. But as I think I said initially, what difference does it make what you call it if both parties are on board and having fun. It appears that they are on the same page at this point. And if you think about it, even if 99% of swingers don't swing this way, 99% of society doesn't swing at all. So maybe they are on the fringe of the fringe, but as long as they have a solid relationship, it is up to them how they do it.

psycdr and jovichick - with all that said, I would still urge caution. Swinging, or whatever anyone wants to call it, like you two are doing is full of pitfalls. Look at swinging as an extreme indoor sport, the more extreme you go the more precautions you need to take in order to come out the other end in one piece. Make sure you do your safety checks frequently and completely so that your relationship doesn't end up FUBAR.

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