Can a wife be a closet Lesbian?

[midnightplayer 135]

I need some advice. This is the perfect spot to ask, as some of you know our sex life has been rocky, bordering on non-existent throughout our 42 years of marriage. My wife has never really been sexually active prior to our marriage and she has had lukewarm interest in our sexual activity. At times she has little interest in sex, and I get the feeling she is doing it because, "he has gone long enough I need to fuck him". She for a period of 12 years would not allow any oral sex between us, finally I pushed the issue enough so she gave in, but I get the feeling she is not enjoying sucking my cock, enjoys me going down on her, although I can get her to cum.

 

I have tried many many times to get her to talk about her sexual fantasies and she says she has none. I have tried to get her to sit down with a cup of coffee the next morning and discuss our sexual play and to tell me what she liked what she wanted better and she wont talk about our sexual play, just silence.

 

A few weeks ago I tried to discuss the reasons she doesn't seem to have much sexual desire and really is not too aggressive in bed or doesn't initiate sex with me and I asked her is she was a lesbian and did not want to have sex with me or men. She got really upset, shouted no she was not a lesbian and began to cry and left the room. Conversation ended at that point. It got me thinking did I finally hit the nail on the head. Her reaction was far too strong for a simple question based on my three year battle to improve our sex life. She has not spoken of that conversation since and our the sex between us has again gone to zero.

 

In your opinion could she be a lesbian and refuses to acknowledge the fact and where do I go from here? I would be thrilled if she was at least it would explain our sexual problems and we could work on finding her a steady gf for her pleasure. I will be anxious to hear your thought.

 

Thanks

[two4youinswva 3,068]

I don't think there's any way we could be able to diagnose the situation from where we're at. But......

From what you've described, it sounds to me that your wife is more of an asexual person than anything else. Here's the Wiki on Asexuality. It's a good place to start research on it.

 

Now, keep in mind, this is just a shot in the dark from someone with no training in behaviors of any type. There are others on the board with some background in this field that will probably be able to provide better insight.

 

FWIW, I wouldn't interpret her strong objections to being labeled as a lesbian as an indication to her actual orientation.

[ClosetSwinger 112]

I have no idea why she is like this. She may be a lesbian, this is possible since she had such a strong reaction. She also may have reacted so strongly because the fact that you are so desperate for an answer that you would suggest she is a lesbian shows HOW BAD things have gotten sexually for you.

 

I'm not sure what I would do. Personally communication is SO important and she has no communication skills. I would push the issue until I got an answer, that's just me though. As long as you have been married I think you deserve some answers.

[PB&J 1,086]

I would imagine that if a woman was asked if she was a lesbian, and she wasn't, the implication that she simply was so bad at sex that she MUST be a lesbian, would make her run off crying. It's a pretty devastating criticism, if you ask me, whether justified or not. Maybe she thinks the sex is pretty good. To hear that it's so bad to you that you think she doesn't even like men obviously hit a nerve, but probably not the one you think.

[VegasLee 1,486]

She may have had a strong reaction simply because she felt she just received the biggest insult of her life from a man that she has been married to for 42 years.

 

Some people just have no interest in sex. Simple as that.

 

If you want to find out the real truth rather then guessing then maybe you and her should seek some professional advise instead of trying to pay doctor on the Internet.

[sexcupid 809]

It could also be a function of age. I see your Swing Lifestyle profile and your age is listed as 63 and I assume that your wife is of similar age.

 

I am in no way implying that sex has to end once you can claim a senior discount. You say she has never enjoyed sex or she just has not enjoyed it the way you think she should have? Depending on how she was raised and her own personal beliefs about sex may affect her ability to initiate/be agressive/etc (which after 42 years of marriage, you should be clued in on by now even if its only just a little bit).

 

I agree with others that you really insulted her with the lesbian comment. Even on the odd chance that she may be, that was still rude. As PB&J said, she may be perfectly content with the sex that has been going on the past 42 years. Lots of people think oral is gross or don't have sex with frequency.

 

If she has always been like you describe, then it may just be her. If problems have set in since menopause, then she should talk to her doctor.

[padoc 1,703]

After 42 years of marriage, it's probably a bit late to improve your sex life. Even if you've been dis-satisfied for decades I can't imagine what you hoped to accomplish by playing the lesbian card at this point. It seems to me to have been needless cruelty and I'd suggest that you find a unique way to apologize or kiss what little sex life you have goodbye.

[midnightplayer 135]

Thanks for all the feedback, a lot of it is so insightful.

 

I started this process of trying to discuss our total relationship and our sexual play, three years ago. I told her I was unhappy with how we were relating and the infrequence of our sex. Seems this is a common complaint among a lot of husbands.

 

I wanted to discuss the issues in a very calm and controlled atmosphere, without drama. Only one problem, she did not want to engage in any conversations. I was totally rebuffed in any attempt to work on this.

 

The comment on being a lesbian might seem to be outrageous, I did not mean to shock her, but I was at a loss. She would not purchase any sexy cloths, would not engage in any play with toys, really did not seem to enjoy anything sexual, did not initiate any sexual play. What is one to think, either she is like someone said "Asexual" or a Lesbian. What else could it be? I had asked her if her hormone therapy was working and she assured me it was.

 

I appreciate your candor, it is refreshing, but have some sympathy for me and other husbands in the same predicament. We husbands are all trying to make things right. I am sexually active and yearning for a sexually active mate.

 

I plan a new series of discussions beginning in two weeks, and I will be incorporating some of the things recommended to me in those discussions. I want to stay married, but if I can not find happiness in this marriage then it is time to move on and find happiness for her and for me. This has become too painful to continue the way we are.

 

Thanks for the assistance.

[Cajun2Step 65]

midnightplayer said:

I plan a new series of discussions beginning in two weeks, and I will be incorporating some of the things recommended to me in those discussions. I want to stay married, but if I can not find happiness in this marriage then it is time to move on and find happiness for her and for me. This has become too painful to continue the way we are. Thanks for the assistance.

 

Why wait two weeks if you are talking about discussions with your spouse. We also believe that you should make a serious attempt at begging for forgiveness from your wife for the lesbian comment. We understand you hurt and request for sympathy from the Board, but you stand zero chance of getting to the bottom of your problem unless you make this attempt to heal your relationship.

 

Personally C2S and me(LadyC2S) have a pact that has carried us for many years. We never go to sleep at night if one of us is hurt, has a problem, or a discussion that needs to be covered until we resolve that situation. We know that will not work in a relationship where one of the partners will not work, but it is a goal to work toward.

 

Best of luck in your search for answers and happiness.

[Learning 160]

Putting on my therapists hat here. It sounds like you have checked out of the marriage. I couldn't imagine being your wife and having a "series of discussions with you" for the next two weeks. Are you going to continue to brow beat her? Let her be and if you seriously want to work on your relationship with her, go to counseling...otherwise find your peace and move on...hopefully she can find her peace as well.

[midnightplayer 135]

Hold on everyone, before you beat me to a pulp, I am "waiting" two weeks because she has some personal business having to deal with her late father's estate and I dont want to as you all say pressure her in this time of her responsibilities. In addition I have not been brow beating her at all. In fact I have been the perfect husband, working on all of her projects that she wants done. Redooing the kitchen, bath, and relandscaping the front flower beds, I have worked hard the last month all for her. So before you all put me in front of the fireing squad, I am not the bad guy here and one more thing we have not been intimate in two months, she is not interested; now that is my fault too?

[LFM2 1,482]

I'm going to change the subject a little.

 

I was looking at your SLS profile and I'm just really wondering if it's working for you?

 

You do state that you're married, but in general, most swingers don't play with married men playing single without talking to the wife first. Has anyone said anything to you about talking to your wife so you can play?

 

Regarding the original post... I pretty much echo what the others have had to say. Some women just HATE sex. Easy as that. I think I'm going to leave it at that.

[Learning 160]

One word: counseling. Should have years ago but if you are in it for the long haul find a marriage and family therapist that has been creditialed by ASECT.

[midnightplayer 135]

Thank you LMF2 and you are right Learning I plan to do counseling if she will submit to it, both marital and spend some time with a sexual therapist. As to where being a single swinger yes I have had discussion with couple and have met some, but I prefer to not speak of those activities; rest asure I have asked my wife to swing with me 20 years a go and she said no and I did not pursue it, I have brought it up again 3 years ago and she again refused. I am not as active as some of you might think, selective and discrete. I do have extensive conversations with couples that contact me and we seem to come to an understanding. Enough said about that

[two4youinswva 3,068]

midnightplayer said:

I plan to do counseling if she will submit to it, both marital and spend some time with a sexual therapist.

 

I'm really surprised you haven't tried this already. You gave this exact advice to someone in this thread from back in January.

 

In one of your first posts on the board from 2007, you mention that she was unreceptive to your request to seek help with her lack of desire. You were given the advice to seek counseling by several different members in more than one thread.

 

Based on several of your posts in the last three years, it doesn't appear anything has changed in that time. I don't think speculation on a board with people that don't know the situation is going to make it any better.

 

At some point, you should really make a decision on what is more important to you, and as you know, we can't really help you with that.

 

Good luck.

[midnightplayer 135]

Agreed Two4U, You are correct I do believe in what you say, but it takes two agree to counseling, up to now I am the only one willing. I do recommend counseling, but I also want to go to a sex therapist. And you are right Two4U, nothing has changed in the last three years, I have been patient and trying to make a go of this. I Perhaps it is better never to ask for advice from this site, seems not to be totally working out. Thanks to all who have posted, I appreciate all of your thoughts. Guess I will have to do the best I can using my instincts.

[padoc 1,703]

The truth comes out! "Single swinger" is how you described yourself. I think you can best be described as a cheater. You are married, your wife has no interest in swinging and you prefer not to talk about your activities while complaining of her lack of interest in sex. You've accused her of being a lesbian as well and you'd like sympathy. I think perhaps you wife is more deserving. I agree with the poster who said you've checked out of the marriage, you just don't have the courage to pass that information onto your wife.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

Perhaps it is better never to ask for advice from this site, seems not to be totally working out.

 

Nothing wrong with asking for advice. But, when the same advice is given over a long period with no change, or apparent attempt at implementing the advice, it brings to mind the saying "After everything is said and done, more gets said than done".

[it'sso 198]

I't easy for those who appear to be getting everything they can wish for in their marriage to pass judgement on somebody who has been battling for over forty years to get very little in the way of physical affection from his or her spouse.

 

At the ripe old age of 63, I doubt that many men would be willing to "move on" from their marriage since few could cope with the split financially.

 

If I were in his shoes, I'd just find a different play partner and could care less how those who managed to do better in scoring a more compatible partner thought about it.

 

This even if it meant he would be shut out in the "lifestyle".

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

I't easy for those who appear to be getting everything they can wish for in their marriage to pass judgement on somebody who has been battling for over forty years to get very little in the way of physical affection from his or her spouse.

 

It is also easy for someone to give a one sided view of a situation.

 

Posters have given the best advice they could based on what they know and can surmise. The OP has almost 4 years of available post to draw from. I have to say I have not given advice because things don't add up. I don't like being an enabler for some one to figure out the best method of cheating.

 

Reading this, and previous post by OP, it is hardly a situation I feel comfortable contributing too. I think the advice and comments that have been posted in response it very reasonable. As for passing judgment, what do you think prospective playmates do when they decide how to respond to his advances?

[sexcupid 809]

A certified sex therapist is trained in sexuality issues and may be more comfortable confronting those issues within the counseling context. What do you think you would gain from seeing a sex therapist vs another certified counselor?

 

Most therapists prefer to meet with couples together, what's stopping you from going on your own to start with? Some will meet separately with each half of the couple initially to kind of assess the individual views of the relationship. It honestly sounds like a total communication breakdown between you and your wife, if there even was good communication in the first place.

 

The fact is some people will play with you, some won't. But one of your original posts from 2007 broached the topic of how to tell her you were going to play or not. Did you ever have that conversation? Is she aware of your play (regardless of how infrequently it may occur)? It could be contributing to her sexual withdrawal as well.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

Midnight, have you ever talked to a certified therapist/counselor on your own?

 

If not, why?

[midnightplayer 135]

Well I am glad they dont allow "stoning" here in the United States, I am sure I would be buried up to my neck by now with some of you already picking the rocks to throw. I only wanted to get some thoughts from those of you with liberated minds.

 

First of all I did not accuse my wife of being a lesbian. I simply asked her if she was. She refuses to talk about our sexual problems and is not a good sex partner. Two4you, came up with the best thought so far that she might be Asexual, I never thought there was such a thing. Thank you for that I appreciate that suggestion.

 

For those of you that think I am a cheater I can't argue with your specific definition but I feel I have been cheated too. I deserve a fulfilling sex life with a woman I married 42 years ago and I am pleased all of you have never had any difficulty in your sexual relations and live so perfect lives, I envy so much, but no one is perfect. Certainly not me.

 

When I got married times were different and why people got married was so much different from now and over 42 years people change, some for the best and some just change. I have been working on this marriage a long time and I might add more than she has.

 

I will seek a marriage counselor and meet with them myself if they will take just the husband. I will be suggesting she join me in a counseling session.

 

But, enough with the piling on, please address the original question; could my wife be a lesbian and not want sex with a man, she wont talk about her inner feelings and needs. If she won't talk I can't, make her tell me what she is thinking.

[Alura 2,774]

Okay, Midnightplayer, I think your wife could be a lesbian, but I doubt it very much. If she were, she'd probably have had an affair with a woman many years ago. More likely, the cause of her asexuality is her upbringing, since she has always been that way.

 

It's a good idea for you to go to counseling yourself because a counselor may be able to help you deal with the situation, give you some insight and maybe, eventually, bring your wife around to talking to you... particularly if she recognizes your gained ability to cope with the situation. Perhaps she'll want to cope with it, too. That could get y'all on the road to recovery. There's hope.

[The Fuse 1,012]

I doubt she's a lesbian, though of course it's possible. I think it's far more likely she simply doesn't enjoy sex or feel that urge. I have a good friend in your situation. Knowing him, his wife, and some members of his wife's family, it just seems like a family characteristic to not have that juice or whatever it is that makes people want sex. Personally I think it must be hormonal. Check out the Berman sisters online. One of them is a urologist. The other is also an M.D. who does research into women's sexuality. Some women have low testosterone or some other hormonal imbalance.

 

Another question to ask your wife, if she'll talk with you, is whether she wants to want sex. Some people don't want sex and don't care. Some people don't want sex and want to want it. It's a big deal whether she wants to have those desires.

 

Good luck. People will pile on here about cheating. I don't condone it. But I'm not walking in your shoes, either.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

I doubt your wife is a closet lesbian.

 

In 42 years of marriage there have been many things contributing to how your wife responds to you, both sexually and nonsexually. There is not going to be one answer for why things are the way they are today.

 

In reading this thread you started when you arrived in 2007 (it is your first two threads, merged) I think there are good points to review, so I'm linking to it here.

 

Breaking the news to Wife that I intend to swing without her

 

My feeling is that you probably weren't well-matched sexually from the start. That happens with couples, yet, they find ways to adjust to it and remain happy together because they have so many other things that unite them.

 

Something I wonder about is whether there has been love and intimacy shown between you over the years, outside of sex? If your approach has been to touch, hug, kiss, etc. as a prelude to always wanting/expecting sex, your wife may have shut down long ago from accepting those gestures of affection and love from you since she's never had the same sex drive.

 

At this stage in your marriage, it will be very difficult to make changes in attitudes about sex. However, I think with time you can change how you approach showing affection and love for one another, if it still exists between you. By demonstrating love through touch and intimacy that doesn't lead to sex you can bring something mutually satisfying into your relationship.

 

At this point, if I was in her shoes, I would have little interest in making things better with you, or talking to you about sex, knowing that you've had a profile on an swinger site for years looking for sex with women and men.

 

Believe me, after 42 years of marriage, your wife knows what you are up to.

[sweet_tna 680]

You've been on this board awhile, so you ought to know a few things by now. The members here, by and large: 1) View play without your partner's consent as cheating; 2) Do not condone cheating; 3) Are going to give you our honest assessment of a poster's situation based upon available information; 4) Are not (with few exceptions) doctors or psychological professionals.

 

With these points in mind, I really have to wonder what you expected to hear from the board members when you started this thread.

 

My take on this is that your wife was insulted/hurt by the suggestion that she might be a lesbian. No one wants to feel they are not good enough for their spouse/significant other. Your obvious displeasure over something she may well have no control over (her libido), is probably having that effect on her.

 

Really, I think your only recourse is to seek counseling for yourself.

[enbloc 47]

By no means am I an expert, but a good friend of mine was sexually abused by family members and close/trusted family friends as a child. The nightmare she had to endure have scarred her for life. She finds it hard to enjoy sex of any kind, and also finds it hard to get close/trust anyone let alone have intimate relations. Bottom line is you may never know why your wife has a low interest in sex. I'm not implying she was abused, i'm just saying there may be underlying issues you don't know about that she cannot share with you. And her PERCEPTION of your accusation to being a lesbian may make her feel like she is the cause of your unhappiness, or maybe relive a painful memory such as being the victim again... etc etc.

 

One thing about communication is the the listener doesn't always understand the message the sender is trying to get across. Nobody's fault, it happens all the time, but i think maybe you could have worded it better. I wasn't there, so i can't say one way or another, but she was the one that was hurt and put on the defensive, so to me it means she took it as an attack. Whether you meant it or not... doesn't matter too much at this point because that is the way she took it.

 

As far as "swinging" without her consent/approval, how do you think that would make her feel? How would you feel if she did it to you? Cheating is not one of the languages of love, it certainly will not help your relationship with your wife nor lead to a happier/fulfilling marriage. On all accounts, bad move!!!!!

 

I would encourage both of you to seek individual counseling first and then couples therapy to inprove your communication skills. We can all benefit from improving communication skills....Just my two cents....

[VegasLee 1,486]

Why I really don't know why but I took the time to read most of what you have posted here the last three years.

 

Most of it pretty much says this really is not about your wife, it is all about you. She has been the same lady for all the years that you have been married and you are bored and you want to venture and you don't like that she won't change her ways.

 

You would rather find something wrong with her. "She must be a lesbian" because she won't do what I want then admit the truth to yourself.

 

You would rather step out for some strange then respect the women that has spent most of her life with you.

 

You don't want out views, don't ask the questions. Just because you want to put up a smoke screen does not mean we won't voice our opinions.

 

Bottom line is your not a swinger, your a cheater and please don't be coming to Vegas and trying to involve swingers in your games.

 

Good luck to you. I hope you look deep in side and make the right decisions for your relationship.

[midnightplayer 135]

Alura said:

Okay, Midnightplayer, I think your wife could be a lesbian, but I doubt it very much. If she were, she'd probably have had an affair with a woman many years ago. More likely, the cause of her asexuality is her upbringing, since she has always been that way.

 

It's a good idea for you to go to counseling yourself because a counselor may be able to help you deal with the situation, give you some insight and maybe, eventually, bring your wife around to talking to you... particularly if she recognizes your gained ability to cope with the situation. Perhaps she'll want to cope with it, too. That could get y'all on the road to recovery. There's hope.

 

Thank you for the suggestion and your thoughts I appreciate it very much, I am beginning to believe she is Asexual, like you have observed.

[midnightplayer 135]

I doubt she's a lesbian, though of course it's possible. I think it's far more likely she simply doesn't enjoy sex or feel that urge. I have a good friend in your situation. Knowing him, his wife, and some members of his wife's family, it just seems like a family characteristic to not have that juice or whatever it is that makes people want sex. Personally I think it must be hormonal. Check out the Berman sisters online. One of them is a urologist. The other is also an M.D. who does research into women's sexuality. Some women have low testosterone or some other hormonal imbalance.

 

Another question to ask your wife, if she'll talk with you, is whether she wants to want sex. Some people don't want sex and don't care. Some people don't want sex and want to want it. It's a big deal whether she wants to have those desires.

 

Good luck. People will pile on here about cheating. I don't condone it. But I'm not walking in your shoes, either.

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond, I will look online for the Berman sisters. I have asked her many times if she is getting the replacement hormonal therapy she needs for a normal life and normal sex drive. She claims that her current doctor has everything under control. I have my doubts, but who am I to come between a woman and her doctor. Thanks again.

[midnightplayer 135]

LikeMinds321 said:

My feeling is that you probably weren't well-matched sexually from the start. That happens with couples, yet, they find ways to adjust to it and remain happy together because they have so many other things that unite them.

 

Something I wonder about is whether there has been love and intimacy shown between you over the years, outside of sex? If your approach has been to touch, hug, kiss, etc. as a prelude to always wanting/expecting sex, your wife may have shut down long ago from accepting those gestures of affection and love from you since she's never had the same sex drive.

 

At this stage in your marriage, it will be very difficult to make changes in attitudes about sex. However, I think with time you can change how you approach showing affection and love for one another, if it still exists between you. By demonstrating love through touch and intimacy that doesn't lead to sex you can bring something mutually satisfying into your relationship.

 

At this point, if I was in her shoes, I would have little interest in making things better with you, or talking to you about sex, knowing that you've had a profile on an swinger site for years looking for sex with women and men.

 

Believe me, after 42 years of marriage, your wife knows what you are up to.

 

You make good points. You are absolutely right back in 1967 we never were intimate prior to marriage. We never had sex before we were married, more importantly we never discussed sex; it was never talked about with the "good girls". So going into the marriage blindly neither one of us knew much about sexuality, relationships, the pure mechanics of sex. You don't remember those were the times back in 6th grade when the girls were called into the gym and the windows were papered over so the boys could not look in and the girls were told about the pending journey into womanhood. Every thing was a secret. You make good points we were not ready.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

midnightplayer said:

You make good points. You are absolutely right back in 1967 we never were intimate prior to marriage. We never had sex before we were married, more importantly we never discussed sex; it was never talked about with the "good girls". So going into the marriage blindly neither one of us knew much about sexuality, relationships, the pure mechanics of sex. You don't remember those were the times back in 6th grade when the girls were called into the gym and the windows were papered over so the boys could not look in and the girls were told about the pending journey into womanhood. Every thing was a secret. You make good points we were not ready.

I think you missed my point. I'm not talking about not having sex before marriage, or what it was like way back then. I was trying to point out that the love between a husband and wife, that intimate feeling of closeness, can be enjoyed and deeply felt in ways besides sex. Have you ever known what that is? My husband and I don't have sex as often as we did ten years ago, but we are as affectionate and in love as ever. We kiss and touch, hold and hug, and spoon on the sofa each day. Every day we say, I love you, and it feels special every time.

 

You can't get your younger years back. I know it may be very painful to yearn for something you may never have in your life, at least not in the way you envision it. But the fact is, you may never have it and it probably is time to face that. I ask you, if knowing you may never have the sex you want, would you be capable of abandoning this search for sex and finding a way to feel love in an intimate and meaningful way again with your wife? If you are willing to change your mindset, there may be hope for a better life together.

 

I do remember what it was like in 1967. My husband is 63 years old, and I am a bit younger.

[swing.kidz 367]

midnightplayer said:

Hold on everyone, before you beat me to a pulp,

--

Well I am glad they dont allow "stoning" here in the United States, I am sure I would be buried up to my neck by now with some of you already picking the rocks to throw.

 

Disclaimer: if you can't take criticism, don't read this.

 

I don't think your wife's problem has anything to do with sex. I think 40+ years of personally enduring anything like what you've written in the above quoted posts can give all of us an understanding of her problem.

 

Sure, when you got married times were different. Sex talk was hushed, and maybe that initially contributed to your wife's introversion. But reexamine everything you have said here and in previous posts. You have victimized yourself. You picked the weeds, you fixed the house...and you deserve a fulfilling sex life. Its all about how GREAT you are! And how BAD she is! But there is no admission from you about what you have done to contribute to her lack of desire. Not even a hint of introspection. You have a "look at my problems, pay attention to me" complex. And she's been dealing with this for over 40 years? From what I read, she hasn't had a partner who has helped facilitate a healthy, mediated, open discussion about her fears, inhibitions, questions...or anything about sex. Just a partner who uses brute force accusations (like the lesbian question, who knows what else you've suggested in the past)...its no wonder she's defensive. Combine your self focused, nagging sexual discussions with her puritan based childhood and all of a sudden the picture of your relationship is in focus (not to simplify 40 years in a few sentences..ha.).

 

Let me ask you some questions:

-How do you speak to your wife?

-Are your "discussions" singly oriented on what you want in sex?

-You mention "she never used toys, or buys lingerie"...but did you ever ask if she even wanted to incorporate that into her sex life in the first place?

-Have you ever had a platonic conversation with her regarding the possibility of discontentment with the way she was raised, or how she feels about a woman's sexuality??

-Do you even know what she wants????

 

I know you've been married for 40+ years, and its naive of me to assume you haven't tested every avenue of communication...but, I am still surprised by some people's inability to empathize...and this seems like one of those instances.

 

I agree with a later post when you say you both went into the marriage blindly, with no discussion about sex...this is obvious. But that doesn't mean you can't evolve. I think you failed big time by not employing the help of a marriage counselor very early in the marriage. Can't turn back time though. I disagree with any suggestion in support of seeing a sex therapist...I think your communication needs to be bolstered before any sex therapy should take place. Once you learn to talk to your wife in a constructive manner, then talk about sex can commence. And even if sex talk does begin, you need to understand your wife will probably not be exactly what you expect. You need to disregard all of your expectations...just be happy for what you have (if your marriage is ultimately what you want), especially if your wife is actually happy to be with you.

 

And I agree with the other people who suggest your swinging lifestyle membership lacks fidelity...if she hasn't specifically and consensually encouraged this for you, then this has only further ruined her sexual desire. And if she doesn't know about it, then you're a cheater.

 

So, to answer your question - No, I don't think your wife is a lesbian. Furthermore, current understanding shows asexuality is only a label...so stop the rigid categorizing. Your wife is more complex than a blanket label, as we all are. Plus, if she was truly asexual, that brings up more questions then it answers.

 

Good luck.

[The Fuse 1,012]

Midnight,

 

I really think you should take swing.kidz and LikeMinds' advice and questions very seriously. Everyone deserves a fulfulling sex life, but it doesn't come because you deserve it. We would like to hear the answers to these questions. Even if it doesn't help you get what you say you want, it may help you find some answers that could do you and your wife some good.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

Well I am glad they dont allow "stoneing" here in the United States, I am sure I would be buried up to my neck by now with some of you already picking the rocks to throw.

 

I have avoided posting here, but since you are playing the martyr I might as well. First no one is stoning you. You came here for advice. It has been given, but the answers have not been ones you liked or expected. So now it is "self pity party"

 

I only wanted to get some thoughts from those of you with liberated minds. First of all I did not accuse my wife of being a lesbian. I simply asked her if she was.

 

Liberated minds does not mean brain dead. People here have read your post, current and past. Answers have been given based on the sum total of what you have written. I have gone back and read a number of your post, but not all. The thing that strikes me is that I have yet to see you ask how you could fix yourself or make yourself more appealing to your wife, maybe I missed it, but is certainly has not been in the ones I have read. You have discussed ways to make yourself more appealing to swingers though.

 

You ask how you can fix your wife, or look for some label to apply to her. Based on what you have written in the past I suspect it is to make yourself feel better about how you have conducted your swinging life and handled your relationship.

 

Question for you: Are you a moron? I am not accusing you of being a moron. I am simply asking you if you are. If you don't see how asking a loaded question like that can be painful, then you have answered the question.

 

She refuses to talk about our sexual problems and is not a good sex partner.

 

Maybe you are not a good sex partner. Has that crossed your mind? Maybe she is too much a "good girl" to tell you that. Maybe she loves you and doesn't want to hurt you. Maybe she thinks it will do no good, because you are too self centered to believe her or do anything about it, other than find her another sex partner, which she clear doesn't want. Maybe she is afraid of you. You clearly get angry when you hear things you don't like. .

 

Two4you, came up with the best thought so far that she might be Asexual, I never thought there was such a thing. Thank you for that I appreciate that suggestion.

 

This is precisely what I meant above. You have latched on to a potential answer and run with it, (in 3 post now I think). You are looking for a label, an excuse, not a solution. IMO, I think that is because you already know what the solution is going to be, you just want some justification.

 

For those of you that think I am a cheater I cant argue with your specific defination but I feel I have been cheated too. I deserve a fufilling sex life with a woman I married 42 years ago

 

Swinging aside you admitted to cheating on her years ago, which might have something to do with how she feels about sex. And yeah, I agree, if you swinging without knowledge or consent it is swinging, because it does not take her feelings, concerns or needs into account.

 

and I am pleased all of you have never had any difficulty in your sexual relations and live so perfect lives, I envy so much, but no one is perfect. Certainly no me.

 

It is not about being perfect, no one here claims to be, least of all me. But you show no contrition and only seem to be looking for answers that can explain or change your wife's imperfections, not yours.

 

I have been working on this marriage a long time and I might add more than she has. I will seek a marriage counselor and meet with them myself if they will take just the husband. I will be suggesting she join me in a counceling session.

 

Again, you point to how much you put into working on this marriage and how little your wife has by comparison. You seem to be proud of all the things you do, that we all do by the way, that have nothing to do with resolving the issues.

 

But, enough with the piling on, please address the original question; could my wife be a lesbian and not want sex with a man, she wont talk about her inner feelings and needs. If she won't talk I can't , make her tell me what she is thinking.

 

Yes, she could be a lesbian, she could be asexual, she could just hate having sex with you.

 

My advice? Forget about labels, forget about swinging. Stop feeling sorry for yourself, take the advice you have been given to heart, ask some questions on how you could improve yourself and work on making yourself more appealing to your wife.

 

I am coming down off my soap box now.

[midnightplayer 135]

LikeMinds321 said:

I think you missed my point. I'm not talking about not having sex before marriage, or what it was like way back then. I was trying to point out that the love between a husband and wife, that intimate feeling of closeness, can be enjoyed and deeply felt in ways besides sex. Have you ever known what that is? My husband and I don't have sex as often as we did ten years ago, but we are as affectionate and in love as ever. We kiss and touch, hold and hug, and spoon on the sofa each day. Every day we say, I love you, and it feels special every time.

 

You can't get your younger years back. I know it may be very painful to yearn for something you may never have in your life, at least not in the way you envision it. But the fact is, you may never have it and it probably is time to face that. I ask you, if knowing you may never have the sex you want, would you be capable of abandoning this search for sex and finding a way to feel love in an intimate and meaningful way again with your wife? If you are willing to change your mindset, there may be hope for a better life together.

 

I do remember what it was like in 1967. My husband is 63 years old, and I am a bit younger.

 

I sometimes wonder when folks tell me to change my thoughts and feelings for my wife, yet now one has expressed any thoughts that she should examine her actions. I expressed my love for her in so many ways by standing by her and going out of my way to support her in her life tragedies, loss of both parents, her cancer treatments, her menopause problems. To me that is an expression of love and support. Yet, I feel used and with no consideration of my needs in this marriage. I can't take the time to tell you all the things you suggest that I have done, yet after so many years of doing just as you suggest I feel more alone than I would be actually being alone. I guess this whole thing is much deeper than sex and all of you have given me a real beating on this, but through it I have begun to find the answer. Thank you for taking the time to express your opinions. It was nice of you

[lizandtom 512]

Midnight, you simply got married to a woman who fit the nice, respectful, good mother type in the 60's. I'd guess that you both took the conservative road avoiding the 'love in' generation of the 60's, the partying 'disco' era of the 70's, the 'new wave' generation during the 80's, the Seattle styled grunge band era of the '90's, which all typified some wild times and open thinking.

 

While you saw all the headlines of some wild times during those era's, you lived up to 'society's good guy' facade, but deep down wished you could have sewed your wild oats.

 

Now you are older and feeling like your time here is getting short, so want to indulge in what you missed out on, wild times that passed you by, and you want your life long partner to change to accompany you on your exploration.

 

Here's the way view it; you should have put much more emphasis on finding a partner that appreciated sex, was more open about it and was a bit wilder 40+ YEARS AGO. That would have been the time to say to your fiance (now your wife) "I just do not feel like we're on the same playing field," then break up.

 

Like I said, THAT was the time to choose your compatible partner, but that time has passed, and you made your bed, and now must choose to lie in it, or possibly be without a companion until you expire, by pushing the issue.

 

Considering what everyone else has reported, namely that you've been venting on this board for years about your short end of the stick, I borrow a theme, regarding your wife and your marriage, from Shawshank Redemption: "get busy accepting or get busy separating."

[swing.kidz 367]

midnightplayer said:

I sometimes wonder when folks tell me to change my thoughts and feelings for my wife, yet now one has expressed any thoughts that she should examine her actions. I expressed my love for her in so many ways by standing by her and going out of my way to support her in her life tragedies, loss of both parents, her cancer treatments, her menopause problems. To me that is an expression of love and support. Yet, I feel used and with no consideration of my needs in this marriage. I can't take the time to tell you all the things you suggest that I have done, yet after so many years of doing just as you suggest I feel more alone than I would be actually being alone. I guess this whole thing is much deeper than sex and all of you have given me a real beating on this, but through it I have begun to find the answer. Thank you for taking the time to express your opinions. It was nice of you

 

midnight....YOU are the one who came here for advice. We can only tell you what YOU can do. If your wife was the one here with the concerns and asking the questions, then we could tell HER. So I don't know how we could have "expressed any thoughts that she should examine her actions" as you would have liked.

 

You see how that works? I'm not suggesting your wife doesn't have her own problems and contributions to this issue. We just haven't heard them. And you telling us her side of the story doesn't make the cut...that's kinda like hearsay. We're not here to give one-sided support for something that doesn't merit it. Additionally, I will speak up for a person when I feel he/she is being mistreated or misinterpreted by his/her spouse...especially if it seems she is being deceived about the lifestyle as your wife is by you (I am the husband in this duo, by the way). And I don't feel your wife is mistreating you rather, like I said earlier, I feel it was your mistreatment and lack of foresight early in your marriage that has put you here. She is and was who you married; the vanilla, puritan, conservative, "good girls don't talk about that" kinda woman. She always has been, always will be...so its not like you didn't understand what you were getting when you signed on...and its unfair to expect change if she never wanted it. Remember, these are assumptions based on what you have told us about your wife...so I wont speculate too much, but that's all I can go on.

 

And more, you can only control YOURSELF and what YOU do...you cant influence control over her, you cant change her, you cant even make her empathize with your "problems" if she doesn't want to (with that principle, it makes me skeptical if you'll even understand the problems about you that we have highlighted here...I digress).

 

I'm sorry, I don't pity someone of your age; someone who has had the time and freedom to make the decisions he has and now in the twilight years feels he is entitled to something more. Either suck it up or institute a drastic change...but remember, whatever you do, YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY VARIABLE IN THIS EQUATION. Your wife has also been married for 40+ years, and if you have been a "supportive husband" as you claim, imagine the destruction you can do to her if you expect more from her at this point in your lives and cause change. She maybe happy with what she has and if you change it, that may just sink her deeper into a depression.

 

Just love your wife for who she is, no labels, no expectations...and if being in the lifestyle is what you want, then tell her. If she doesn't accept that, you have the two choices I gave you, suck it up or dissolve your marriage...because cheating, although an option, isn't a valid choice for healthy people. If you choose to suck it up (which would be the most rewarding, I think), then I suggest you delete your swinging based online accounts and go on a nice vanilla Mediterranean cruise (or something awesome like that) with your wife and enjoy the years you have left. Sex isn't everything; if you think it is, you will be lonely and miserable. You don't have much time left.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

midnightplayer said:

I sometimes wonder when folks tell me to change my thoughts and feelings for my wife, yet now one has expressed any thoughts that she should examine her actions.

 

On the contrary. There have been numerous post about how you wife could change. And almost, if not, exclusively by you.

 

You have been here long enough to read many post. So you know when someone comes here and says "I need to change myself because my spouse isn't happy", they receive constructive advice on what they can do. They also get advice on how to communicate and understand their spouses needs, and how to get their spouse to understand them as well. It is a two way street, most often, both side need to take some action.

 

In your case, almost every post has been about you changing your wife and how bad and wrong she is.

 

You have surely read countless times in other post the advice when one spouse wants to swing and the other doesn't. It is almost always advised to stay away from the lifestyle, it is bad for you, your relationship and those you encounter.

 

But you have jumped in head long into the lifestyle without your wife, and based on your previous post, apparently without her consent or knowledge.

 

You made the following comment:

midnightplayer said:

I have been the perfect husband, working on all of her projects that she wants done. Redoing the kitchen, bath, and re-landscaping the front flower beds, I have worked hard the last month all for her.

 

Two things about that post catch my attention. First being the "perfect husband" or even a good one is not about taking out the trash, remodeling or lawn work, its not even about paying the bills. It is all that and much more. It is about communicating, understanding, sharing, feeling her desire and pains and working with her to get through them. Maybe you do all of those things, but it certainly has not shown up in your post. Nor does it sound likely when you have admitted to cheating and joining the lifestyle without her.

 

Secondly, you say you have "worked hard the last month all for her". The last month? What about the previous 40+ years. One month won't erase the wrongs of 40 years, nor mend fences that have been neglected for so long.

 

The fact that you can't see how asking your wife if she is a lesbian could hurt her is telling. If that is how you have handled the previous 40+ years, then I am sure she is numb to sex and many other things as well.

 

I hope you are starting to understand why you are finding it difficult to get much empathy or sympathy from some people on this site.

 

Perhaps the advice you are looking for is not to be found on this site. You said

midnightplayer said:

I told her I was unhappy with how we were relating and the infrequence of our sex. Seems this is a common complaint among a lot of husbands.

 

Well that is not really the case here. Most of the men here, with a few exceptions, have robust sex life, even without swinging. The advice given here is consistently, swinging will not fix a relationship, just destroy it. The advice I think you need has been given over an over, see a marriage counselor. Work on your relationship and forget about swinging.

[midnightplayer 135]

Midnight, you simply got married to a woman who fit the nice, respectful, good mother type in the 60's. I'd guess that you both took the conservative road avoiding the 'love in' generation of the 60's, the partying 'disco' era of the 70's, the 'new wave' generation during the 80's, the Seattle styled grunge band era of the '90's, which all typified some wild times and open thinking.

 

While you saw all the headlines of some wild times during those era's, you lived up to 'society's good guy' facade, but deep down wished you could have sewed your wild oats.

 

Now you are older and feeling like your time here is getting short, so want to indulge in what you missed out on, wild times that passed you by, and you want your life long partner to change to accompany you on your exploration.

 

Here's the way view it; you should have put much more emphasis on finding a partner that appreciated sex, was more open about it and was a bit wilder 40+ YEARS AGO. That would have been the time to say to your fiance (now your wife) "I just do not feel like we're on the same playing field," then break up.

 

Like I said, THAT was the time to choose your compatible partner, but that time has passed, and you made your bed, and now must choose to lie in it, or possibly be without a companion until you expire, by pushing the issue.

 

Considering what everyone else has reported, namely that you've been venting on this board for years about your short end of the stick, I borrow a theme, regarding your wife and your marriage, from Shawshank Redemption: "get busy accepting or get busy separating."

 

You Nailed it. The best observation or our situation and prefect advice. Thanks