New here and very troubled...How do I do this?

[lovenestduo 74]

She (and others) knew she was getting engaged. She didn't want to tell you she was a swinger. She had one last party and kept it from you. She must have been the one that told her friends that you were ok with it. She violated the number one rule in swinging, "thou shall not cheat".

 

A swinger can stop swinging. What she did wasn't swinging, it was one (last?) sex party. I couldn't trust someone that organizes something like this knowing full well it was wrong. She lied to everybody. If she cared so much for you to get engaged, she shouldn't have had this last fling. Swinging doesn't put the blinders on you. You know damn well how 'vanilla' people react to casual sex. You don't have a lapse and think it's no big deal.

 

As far as getting back together, consider this, whenever the issue of trust comes up, you will remember this. Sex problems, you will remember this. Her having a girls night out, you will remember this. It will be there for the entire time you are together. It won't matter how faithful she is. Few marriages survive cheating, do you really want to start out with that burden?

 

It sucks. You both might love each other but the 'elephant in the room' ain't gonna go away. A better question than 'will she stop' is 'can you live with it?'. I know it would haunt me forever.

[bbarnsworth 2,640]

The amount of calls from friends and family is frankly pretty silly. I understand her intent, but it's excessive. It really doesn't matter what her friends and family think. What matters is how you feel, in your heart, in your soul. It doesn't matter what other people think or feel.

 

If you're going to accept her back, then you must put this behind you and trust her fully again. That can be exceptionally hard. As lovenestduo noted, few marriages survive cheating.

 

For me, her calling it a "stupid mistake" is catastrophically false. If she happened to have gone to a party while you were gone, got fairly drunk, and ended up naked in the arms of some random guy, that would be a mistake. That's not what happened here. This party was at her place. She planned it. She invited friends. She set her place up for it. She scheduled it around when you were going to be out of town. Several times she had opportunities to tell you about it, and didn't. This is a whole basket full of mistakes and then some. This was premeditated cheating. She knew full well what she was going to do, planned it, set up for it, lied about it over and over again through obfuscation and then carried it out, having sex with her ex husband, another woman, and whomever else enjoyed her pleasures that evening. This is way, way, way, past a stupid mistake.

 

As I said, you're going to have to get past that if you're to take her back. It's not a case of actively deciding to play the fool. It's a choice towards a future. If you take her back, but continue to suspect, routinely check on her, always doubt her intentions, etc., then you are doomed to failure. If you are to take her back, there can be no questions, no lack of trust, no disbelief in what she says she's doing or has done. You have to fake it until the trust becomes part of you again. Otherwise, it feeds on itself and will never ever recover.

[Swing*8701 887]

I haven't told anyone, yet. I told her that we could talk again, Tuesday night and I would have a decision for her, and she is mobilizing the whole family and friends and club members to convince me to give her another chance. I've probably had 15 or 20 e-mails and at least that many calls, telling me how lucky I should feel to have her ( I don't feel too fucking lucky, right now) , how this was a "goodbye", party, how this was a stupid mistake, how She would have told me befor announcing our engagement, ETC. As part of her "proof", that she can be trusted, her boss at the bank called to say she is the most honest employee he has ever had. God knows what she said to him to get him to do that? She has also offered to let me talk to her therapist (she began going to therapy during her divorce) to prove again, her love and devotion. This is becoming a fucking Circus, and I DON'T LIKE THE CIRCUS!!!!!! I hate drama, hate it with a passion.

 

Getting everyone to call you is just part of running the con game. This way if you reject her, you get blamed and trust me, she has positioned you as the bad guy if things go wrong. That's how the con-artist works.

[Alura 2,774]

I have to agree that the drama is getting a bit thick, Big Rock. We'll look forward to hearing from you on Wednesday. Good luck!

 

Alura

[JM153 346]

Big Rock, I have read most of the posts on this thread and agree with all who label this cheating and not swinging. Now the question is what do you do about it. As was said early on this depends on what your feelings were before she cheated and what you think about her cheating. If you loved her before and if you believe she is the one for you then I would urge you to go slow before you dump her and to NOT tell anyone about what she did. If you tell people they will not understand if you decide to proceed with the relationship. If they do not know the facts then if you get back together they will not judge you. The reason I suggest you go slow in deciding to end the relationship or to confirm it in marriage is you and her will need time to rebuild trust. It will take a lot of hard work on both of your parts to regain the trust. During that time you should be able to determine whether she is a con artist as some have suggested or whether she was afraid of loosing you if you knew of her past. Also during that time the two of you can determine what your boundaries are and see if you can live by them. You have only been together 9 months, you are both young, there is no hurry to get married. You can take a year or more to determine where this is going.

 

Good luck in whatever you decide.

[Learning 160]

Putting on therapist hat here...what screams from your posts about her is Manipulation. You are right, this is nothing but drama right now. Feelings are not like a faucet where you can just turn it off instantly but it takes time. You are confused and have every right to be. You owe no explanations of why you broke things off. You know the truth. Take care of yourself.

[Big Rock 173]

This rings hollow to me. You seem to be really enjoying the circus and I bet if you were honest with yourself you'd be able to recognize that. If you didn't like the drama you wouldn't be holding court like this; you wouldn't be leaving her hanging for a few days thinking it's over while still thinking there might be a chance.

 

I still see a lot of double standards in your views on love and sex. I think that is causing a lot of her actions in being untruthful. That doesn't excuse her behaviour at all, what she did isn't cool. It might frame the behaviour and help to show a path to whether you can work things out or not. I still think you have two choices: open communication to attempt to work things out, or break up. They are both fairly cut and dried options with clear paths. You haven't chosen either and you're leaving her hanging. I still feel my last post on this is completely valid, though I understand why you may not feel that way.

 

Good luck with your situation and I hope it all works out for you.

This is a case of "damned if you do, and damned if you don't". Slevin, you're an all or nothing type of guy, aren't you? Everything is black or white. If I give vent to my anger and dump her, ok. If I Love her enough to try to make it work, OK. But if I try to be level-headed and get all of the info needed to make an informed decision, then I somehow like the drama. Jeez, I can't win, can I? I know you mean well, but this isn't helping.

[slevin 1,374]

This is a case of "damned if you do, and damned if you don't". Slevin, you're an all or nothing type of guy, aren't you? Everything is black or white. If I give vent to my anger and dump her, ok. If I Love her enough to try to make it work, OK. But if I try to be level-headed and get all of the info needed to make an informed decision, then I somehow like the drama. Jeez, I can't win, can I? I know you mean well, but this isn't helping.

 

Hardly; you don't seem to be trying to gather information to make a decision. You told her you made a decision, then you tell her you're going to tell her for sure on Tuesday. You tell us you can't imagine that a swinger can become a non-swinger unless we can say otherwise. We say otherwise and you don't buy it.

 

There is more going on here.

[Big Rock 173]

She (and others) knew she was getting engaged. She didn't want to tell you she was a swinger. She had one last party and kept it from you. She must have been the one that told her friends that you were ok with it. She violated the number one rule in swinging, "thou shall not cheat".

 

A swinger can stop swinging. What she did wasn't swinging, it was one (last?) sex party. I couldn't trust someone that organizes something like this knowing full well it was wrong. She lied to everybody. If she cared so much for you to get engaged, she shouldn't have had this last fling. Swinging doesn't put the blinders on you. You know damn well how 'vanilla' people react to casual sex. You don't have a lapse and think it's no big deal.

 

As far as getting back together, consider this, whenever the issue of trust comes up, you will remember this. Sex problems, you will remember this. Her having a girls night out, you will remember this. It will be there for the entire time you are together. It won't matter how faithful she is. Few marriages survive cheating, do you really want to start out with that burden?

 

It sucks. You both might love each other but the 'elephant in the room' ain't gonna go away. A better question than 'will she stop' is 'can you live with it?'. I know it would haunt me forever.

this is probably the best advice yet. I would do as LizandTom said and tell everyone to ask her about the break-up, but that would be duplicitous on my part, and could cause problems for her. If she tells her friends and family the truth, then what will they think of her then? You know as well as I do what their reaction is likely to be, if they found out she was swinging or cheating or whatever. I don't want to hurt her, I just want her to be honest with me. Not to tell me what she feels that I want to hear, but the plain, unvarnished truth. I'm going to call her in a few minutes and tell her it's over. I'm not going to wait until Tuesday . This mess has grown too big and too complicated for me to invest any more time and effort into it. I'm not close with anybody she knows, and I can always find a new bank. She can live her life and I can live mine. Thanks again, to all.

[The Fuse 1,012]

I for one think it's well worth not pulling the trigger right away. Taking a few days or even a week to sort out your feelings, and get with her for another talk, seems pretty level-headed to me.

 

You should ask yourself if you like this drama, though. It's a hard thing to admit, if true.

 

I do feel that if your preferred future is with this woman as a monogamous, non-swinging couple, you are in for a future where you're always wondering if you can trust her. Even if you want to swing together, I'd have to wonder what else she is keeping from you, given past history.

 

If you are interested in swinging with her, and would feel good about giving her the freedom to have encounters occasionally without you when she wants to, AND you are comfortable with the idea that she might keep the occasional secret about something else (money? sex? past activities?) then perhaps you have the basis for a relationship that could work. If you're confident that she loves you, will always act as your wife (meaning always hold your interests as a couple in high regard, always come home, support you in life as a partner, support you in your eventual old age, etc.), then perhaps that kind of arrangement could work.

 

If, on the other hand, you want to be in control of how she expresses her sexuality, I'm guessing that sooner or later she'll stray again. Like you wrote, you don't want to be a jailer. Looks like she won't be jailed. So can you be okay with that? Because people don't really change. She's young and probably has a lot of drive and desire still left in her. Those are forces that are hard to overcome.

 

I feel for you, Big Rock. I hope you think about things for a while and in the end go with your gut. It will probably steer you right. And, this may sound hollow, but you are only 30. You have lots of time if you decide she's not the one you feel right about growing old with.

 

When you're 70 years old, what will you wish you had done? That's the barometer I try to use when I'm faced with a hard question. Best of luck to you.

[Big Rock 173]

Hardly; you don't seem to be trying to gather information to make a decision. You told her you made a decision, then you tell her you're going to tell her for sure on Tuesday. You tell us you can't imagine that a swinger can become a non-swinger unless we can say otherwise. We say otherwise and you don't buy it.

 

There is more going on here.

Think what you want to think, Dude. What I decided , in my mind, I never told her, so she is none the wiser. But she will be , in about 15 minutes.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

Ya know, I was just sitting here thinking. If she invited you to go to her therapist, I think thats a privilege to know some things about how she really feels, inside. Probably more so, than her best friend or ex for that matter. It might be to late seeing your most recent post, but I just thought that this revelation would mean allot. If you do go, keep what is discussed confidential, like I say I doubt anyone knows whats most important to her, those things are in her head, her mind. Most men, never get that chance...Many make judgments only on what they see, not the unseen things.

 

Speaking of the pink elephant in the room, what about the threesomes you mentioned in a previous post. Say hypothetically you met these womens fiancée or husbands some day. Would you feel the need to tell them ? Think about that, seriously. Didn't you say your own wife wanted to remain FWB ? Like I said I cant judge your girlfriend I don't know her, I don't think that you should test her by asking her friends to tell her everything, then tell you. Thats not being fair in my opinion...... Can someone be considered honest, under duress ? To me I would worry I had to force honesty doing that, and that wouldn't be a good life to live. I would rather ask for honesty, let time prove itself and live with my own mistakes. There is allot to be said for forgiveness...

[Big Rock 173]

Ya know, I was just sitting here thinking. If she invited you to go to her therapist, I think thats a privilege to know some things about how she really feels, inside. Probably more so, than her best friend or ex for that matter. It might be to late seeing your most recent post, but I just thought that this revelation would mean allot. If you do go, keep what is discussed confidential, like I say I doubt anyone knows whats most important to her, those things are in her head, her mind. Most men, never get that chance...Many make judgments only on what they see, not the unseen things.

 

Speaking of the pink elephant in the room, what about the threesomes you mentioned in a previous post. Say hypothetically you met these womens fiancée or husbands some day. Would you feel the need to tell them ? Think about that, seriously. Didn't you say your own wife wanted to remain FWB ? Like I said I cant judge your girlfriend I don't know her, I don't think that you should test her by asking her friends to tell her everything, then tell you. Thats not being fair in my opinion...... Can someone be considered honest, under duress ? To me I would worry I had to force honesty doing that, and that wouldn't be a good life to live. I would rather ask for honesty, let time prove itself and live with my own mistakes. There is allot to be said for forgiveness...

I agree completely, and told her that I forgave her, but that we can't be a couple any more, because of the trust issues. I said that I liked her a lot, but couldn't love a person who didn't love and respect me, in return. So....that's that. I don't feel particularily good about it, but it's not my problem, any more. Nine months down the crapper.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

I agree completely, and told her that I forgave her, but that we can't be a couple any more, because of the trust issues. I said that I liked her a lot, but couldn't love a person who didn't love and respect me, in return. So....that's that. I don't feel particularily good about it, but it's not my problem, any more. Nine months down the crapper.

 

Fair enough... I think her biggest problem will be forgiving herself now, for her own mistakes. That too, takes along time.

 

What about swinging for you now, or in the future ? Obviously there are a few in your community you know now, however unfortunately. Could you trust them, or keep their identities safe after all this ? I hope you hold no ill will toward swingers, but I could understand in your case, one bad apple spoiling the whole bunch.

[lizandtom 512]

What about swinging for you now, or in the future ? Obviously there are a few in your community you know now, however unfortunately. Could you trust them, or keep their identities safe after all this ? I hope you hold no ill will toward swingers, but I could understand in your case, one bad apple spoiling the whole bunch.

 

Since we're on page 5 of threads on this, I'd guess that Big's gotten the picture that cheating is in no way part of swinging, but rather that deceit goes against everything that true swingers believe in.

 

Big, glad you found the dialog helpful here. I wish there had been an internet and forums such as this when I went through my worst devastating breakup when I was 19 ; it would have helped a lot, but after a month or two of accepting it was over, the end result was phenominal; met the woman of my dreams, perfect for me and as honest as they come. Good luck going forward.

[Big Rock 173]

Fair enough... I think her biggest problem will be forgiving herself now, for her own mistakes. That too, takes along time.

 

What about swinging for you now, or in the future ? Obviously there are a few in your community you know now, however unfortunately. Could you trust them, or keep their identities safe after all this ? I hope you hold no ill will toward swingers, but I could understand in your case, one bad apple spoiling the whole bunch.

Funny thing is, one of the women from Ex Gf's club asked if the situation were different, would I be interested in some casual sex with some of the ladies (with their H's knowledge, of course). I think that I would have to learn a lot more about it. From the attitudes of the posters here, I don't have too many qualms about honesty, but I do have issues. I was something of a player, in college and had quite a few ONS's and casual encounters, and learned one thing from them. Casual sex is just that, casual. I equate it with doing any other repetitive action. In a casual encounter, you and your partner get your rocks off, and that's it. It means nothing more than that. I always want my sex to be a wonderful EMOTIONAL, as well as physical

experience for my partner and for myself. I've had quite a few lovers, but I can remember their names and faces, and the degree of attachment to each. If sex and swinging ever becomes so casual that it loses it's emotional meaning and soul, then I wouldn't want any part of swinging.

[Alura 2,774]

Funny thing is, one of the women from Ex Gf's club asked if the situation were different, would I be interested in some casual sex with some of the ladies (with their H's knowledge, of course). I think that I would have to learn a lot more about it. From the attitudes of the posters here, I don't have too many qualms about honesty, but I do have issues. I was something of a player, in college and had quite a few ONS's and casual encounters, and learned one thing from them. Casual sex is just that, casual. I equate it with doing any other repetitive action. In a casual encounter, you and your partner get your rocks off, and that's it. It means nothing more than that. I always want my sex to be a wonderful EMOTIONAL, as well as physical

experience for my partner and for myself. I've had quite a few lovers, but I can remember their names and faces, and the degree of attachment to each. If sex and swinging ever becomes so casual that it loses it's emotional meaning and soul, then I wouldn't want any part of swinging.

 

In my opinion, Big Rock, the emotional experience comes with your partner after the party is over and y'all are back together again. That's when my late wife and I had the best emotional sexual experiences. It's one of the main endearments with swinging.

 

Alura

[LFM2 1,482]

In my opinion, Big Rock, the emotional experience comes with your partner after the party is over and y'all are back together again. That's when my late wife and I had the best emotional sexual experiences. It's one of the main endearments with swinging.

 

Alura

 

Not only your opinion Alura, but most of us echo that thought.

 

It's an amazing feeling to reconnect.

[Big Rock 173]

Not only your opinion Alura, but most of us echo that thought.

 

It's an amazing feeling to reconnect.

This, of course, begs the question, how positive can swinging be , if you have to "reconnect", afterwards? If you"ve lost your connection, how does boinking a stranger, get it back? Can a person fuck their way to heaven? I'm not sure, but I think not. I'm all for casual sex, but I prefer the "one on one", kind. I've been to "orgies", and didn't think too much of them. Sweating, grunting mess. I was raised on a farm, and the orgies I've been to (2) look rather like a hog wallow. I think if I were going to get involved, it would, at most, be a couple to couple straight exchange, or something , at least sanitary. Putting my Dick into a vag, filled with another man's semen, isn't my idea of high-tone sport.:lol:

[slevin 1,374]

This, of course, begs the question, how positive can swinging be , if you have to "reconnect", afterwards? If you"ve lost your connection, how does boinking a stranger, get it back? Can a person fuck their way to heaven? I'm not sure, but I think not. I'm all for casual sex, but I prefer the "one on one", kind. I've been to "orgies", and didn't think too much of them. Sweating, grunting mess. I was raised on a farm, and the orgies I've been to (2) look rather like a hog wallow. I think if I were going to get involved, it would, at most, be a couple to couple straight exchange, or something , at least sanitary. Putting my Dick into a vag, filled with another man's semen, isn't my idea of high-tone sport.:lol:

 

The reconnecting isn't to recapture something that is missing from the relationship. It is going and enjoying casual sex with other people you find attractive, then reconnecting at the end of the night and enjoying that emotional bond you share with your spouse. There is an intensity there that is very palpable. If the connection wasn't there before swinging it won't be there after swinging. You've said that you have read around here a fair bit; if that is the case and you are intrigued by the idea of swinging then I think it would be good for you to keep reading with this new mindset. Lots to discover and many ideas to ponder.

 

I don't get the impression that you actually want to explore swinging though.

[Chicup 41]

This, of course, begs the question, how positive can swinging be , if you have to "reconnect", afterwards?

 

Ever been on a trip for a week and you come home and reconnect sexually?

 

Its kinda like that.

[Big Rock 173]

Ever been on a trip for a week and you come home and reconnect sexually?

 

Its kinda like that.

I think that whole "reconnecting sexually" thing, is what's probably going to be a stumbling block. Reconnecting sexually, implies that there is a dysfuction or lack, somewhere. My question still stands. If you have a great sexual relationship anyway, what reason can you have to jeopardize it by the added dynamic of another person, who may or may not, be sympatico? And I also have a HUGE problem with people who equate sexual release, with true passion. I've had a rough streak going recently, what with my "relationship", with my ex-wife and now this crap with my Ex-GF. Who both want to f**k me, but apparently don't want to be in an LTR. But I DO remember what real passionate love is, and swinging doesn't seem to fit the bill. I'm interested, as a single guy, but I don't think I would want to as a married man. This is just my opinion, and not a judgement on anyone else, their situations are probably different from mine.

[Alura 2,774]

Sweaty, grunting mess??? Hog Wallow??? ... a bag filled with semen???

 

"Reconnecting sexually" does not imply a lack of anything; it's simply an event that swingers who love each other dearly find wonderfully rewarding.

 

I'm beginning to think, Big Rock, that your ex-wife and your ex-girlfriend are two very lucky women.

 

Alura

[WildMiCouple 325]

I've been pretty disgusted with the actions of your (ex)girlfriend. But after reading this.....

This, of course, begs the question, how positive can swinging be , if you have to "reconnect", afterwards? If you"ve lost your connection, how does boinking a stranger, get it back? Can a person fuck their way to heaven? I'm not sure, but I think not. I'm all for casual sex, but I prefer the "one on one", kind. I've been to "orgies", and didn't think too much of them. Sweating, grunting mess. I was raised on a farm, and the orgies I've been to (2) look rather like a hog wallow. I think if I were going to get involved, it would, at most, be a couple to couple straight exchange, or something , at least sanitary. Putting my Dick into a vag, filled with another man's semen, isn't my idea of high-tone sport.:lol:

.....I now understand why she never brought up her swinging past with you I definately agree with your decision to end the relationship, as it's pretty obvious her fucking the ex would continually rear it's ugly head. And I must say, I would highly urge you not to get into the lifestyle with your current views.

 

Good luck with finding someone you can settle down with.

 

Brett

[lovenestduo 74]

I've been to "orgies", and didn't think too much of them. Sweating, grunting mess. I was raised on a farm, and the orgies I've been to (2) look rather like a hog wallow. I think if I were going to get involved, it would, at most, be a couple to couple straight exchange, or something , at least sanitary. Putting my Dick into a vag, filled with another man's semen, isn't my idea of high-tone sport.:lol:

 

Dr. Phil?, is that you?

 

Seriously, you say you live and let live and aren't being judgmental but you sure don't have a problem expressing your opinions about something you don't have a frickin clue about.

 

Please show this thread to your now-ex, it will help her get over you quick.

[Big Rock 173]

Sweaty, grunting mess??? Hog Wallow??? ... a bag filled with semen???

 

"Reconnecting sexually" does not imply a lack of anything; it's simply an event that swingers who love each other dearly find wonderfully rewarding.

 

I'm beginning to think, Big Rock, that your ex-wife and your ex-girlfriend are two very lucky women.

 

Alura

Alura , you need not be quite so defensive. I didn't call anyone here, anything, but merely expressed my issues with some parts ( but not ALL parts) of the swinging life-style. Surely you are mature enough to discuss a subject without taking offense? If something needs to be "reconnected", then it first must be "disconnected", this is plain English. Perhaps you mean something else? There was no need for your insult, I did not insult you. Perhaps you enjoy group sex, but I don't. During one of the orgies, I was having sex with a woman and there was another fat guy grunting and sweating about a foot from me, I find that offensive, sorry.

[Big Rock 173]

lovenestduo and wildmicouple, is swinging only about group sex? Are there not other manifestations of the lifestyle? I find ONE aspect of the lifestyle offensive, and I get slammed for it. My opinion is as valid as anyone else's, and I'm sure that there are many swingers who do not like group sex and for similar reasons.

[LFM2 1,482]

This, of course, begs the question, how positive can swinging be , if you have to "reconnect", afterwards? If you"ve lost your connection, how does boinking a stranger, get it back? Can a person fuck their way to heaven? I'm not sure, but I think not. I'm all for casual sex, but I prefer the "one on one", kind. I've been to "orgies", and didn't think too much of them. Sweating, grunting mess. I was raised on a farm, and the orgies I've been to (2) look rather like a hog wallow. I think if I were going to get involved, it would, at most, be a couple to couple straight exchange, or something , at least sanitary. Putting my Dick into a vag, filled with another man's semen, isn't my idea of high-tone sport.:lol:

 

We swingers use the term "reconnect", but to a vanilla person, such as yourself, that could be a misnomer. We haven't lost anything. There is NO dysfunction OR lack of anything in our sexual relationships. In fact, because we aren't lacking anything or having dysfunction in our relationships is why we're able to swing successfully. It's more like what Chicup said; going on a little vacation and we're finally coming home and seeing your spouse again. It's heaven.

 

Rock, you don't have a swingers mindset and I doubt you ever will. You're obviously having a hard time wrapping your head around it, and that's OK. You don't have to understand our lifestyle, but I think you were just trying to understand your GF's and your ex-wife's mindset.

 

I have to agree with Alura as well.... your ex-wife and your GF are two very lucky women. While that's said, I also have to agree with WildMiCouple and say that you should definitely stay away from the swinging scene with your current vision of what you think swinging is.

 

I really do hope you find what your looking for in life. Everyone deserves that.

[LFM2 1,482]

lovenestduo and wildmicouple, is swinging only about group sex? Are there not other manifestations of the lifestyle? I find ONE aspect of the lifestyle offensive, and I get slammed for it. My opinion is as valid as anyone else's, and I'm sure that there are many swingers who do not like group sex and for similar reasons.

 

Do you mean group sex like orgies? What is your definition of "group"?

 

I don't think anyone has slammed you, Rock. You're just of a different mindset. We've all done the monogamous thing when we were first married, or in the beginnings of a relationship. Our relationships grew and we grew and things changed -- and in our eyes, for the better.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

This, of course, begs the question, how positive can swinging be , if you have to "reconnect", afterwards? If you"ve lost your connection, how does boinking a stranger, get it back? Can a person fuck their way to heaven? I'm not sure, but I think not. I'm all for casual sex, but I prefer the "one on one", kind. I've been to "orgies", and didn't think too much of them. Sweating, grunting mess. I was raised on a farm, and the orgies I've been to (2) look rather like a hog wallow. I think if I were going to get involved, it would, at most, be a couple to couple straight exchange, or something , at least sanitary. Putting my Dick into a vag, filled with another man's semen, isn't my idea of high-tone sport.:lol:

 

We often say "swinging isn't for everyone". We should say "swinging isn't for most people". At this point in your life, it isn't for you. It may never be something for you, and that's OK. Nothing wrong with monogamy. There are many happy monogamous couples.

 

You've gotten good advice on your failed relationship, and you've made your choice to end that relationship, which many on here agree with. We hope you can find a partner in the future that you can enjoy an open line of communication with, and are compatible in your sexual needs.

 

Good luck to you.

[Big Rock 173]

LFM2 Since I'm the one who ended both relationships, and since I could, if I wanted, restart both relationships at any time I choose, the passive-agressive comments about both my Ex-wife and Ex-gf being lucky, are indeed a slam. Thinly-veiled, but true nevertheless. There are basically three areas of swinging that I have issue with: 1) group sex ( anything over two couples in the same room is offensive to me, not for moral reasons, but for sanitary ones). 2) I do not find being around other naked men to be sexually exciting, quite the contrary. 3) I doubt very much whether most of the swingers can tell the difference between passion and sexual gratification. Casual sex, sex with married people, and certain types of group activities (clubs, parties, etc), I'm OK with.

[lizandtom 512]

Big, I'm not thinking you've come accross as judgemental, but rather misinformed as to what the 'lifestyle' is.

 

Swinging ranges from solely flirtation, right on up through orgies and gangbangs. What my wife and I do are probably more along the lines of suitability for you, should you ever get involved.

 

We have been together for more than 2 decades, and know we both are so secure with each other that we do let ourselves get emotionally evolved with attractive play partners as a couple with other couples, or up to a few other couples at one time. Our minds are equally into the excitement as are our bodies. We then have the incredible memories, both short and long term, that fill our heads and that's a wonderful thing.

 

We've witnessed the mandatory 'sex with your spouse' at the end of every swinging night [i guess that's a form of the 'reconnect'], but we have no such rule in place; we simply have been together so long and are so secure with each other that there's no need. We are still attracted to each other like it was day one in heat; the sex with others just adds to it.

 

To summarize, I think your notion of swinging can be achieved, emotionally and physically, but it will take quite some time to reach the level of security, truthfulness and communication necessary to be successful in this, when and if you find a suitable partner. As just posted, swinging is not for most, so if you and your eventual partner fall into it, kudos to you. Probability says you probably won't; the statistics are just against you to find a woman who has the right mind set.

 

I'm sure [or hope] you realize that while there are the sweaty piles of bodies in orgy types of situations, that there are also the one on one with mutually HWP people that would appeal to you and your 'to be' partner, when you find her. It is key to realize that there are all types in this scene, none better, none worse; the sex is phenomenal with some, not so good with others, and that's widely understood and no reason to judge [which I really don't perceive that you have].

[Big Rock 173]

We often say "swinging isn't for everyone". We should say "swinging isn't for most people". At this point in your life, it isn't for you. It may never be something for you, and that's OK. Nothing wrong with monogamy. There are many happy monogamous couples.

 

You've gotten good advice on your failed relationship, and you've made your choice to end that relationship, which many on here agree with. We hope you can find a partner in the future that you can enjoy an open line of communication with, and are compatible in your sexual needs.

 

Good luck to you.

Yes, I did get some really good advice, and I'm grateful for it. What I'm curious about is the negative responses I've gotten, whenever I have questioned some aspect of the "lifestyle". It seems to me that some people have an "all or nothing", attitude. I have repeatedly expressed that there are a great many good things about the "lifestyle", but that there are also a few that I have issue with. Rather than try to explain, these posters prefer to consign me to the "vanilla", world. Somewhat arrogant, don't you think? The fact remains that I dumped my GF for cheating and untrustworthiness, NOT because she was a swinger. If she had told me about her involvement from the beginning, I would have been willing to listen and might have changed my mind about my issues ( I do pride myself on my openmindedness) and it probably wouldn't have been that hard to do, because I liked her a lot.

[Big Rock 173]

Big, I'm not thinking you've come accross as judgemental, but rather misinformed as to what the 'lifestyle' is.

 

Swinging ranges from solely flirtation, right on up through orgies and gangbangs. What my wife and I do are probably more along the lines of suitability for you, should you ever get involved.

 

We have been together for more than 2 decades, and know we both are so secure with each other that we do let ourselves get emotionally evolved with attractive play partners as a couple with other couples, or up to a few other couples at one time. Our minds are equally into the excitement as are our bodies. We then have the incredible memories, both short and long term, that fill our heads and that's a wonderful thing.

 

We've witnessed the mandatory 'sex with your spouse' at the end of every swinging night [i guess that's a form of the 'reconnect'], but we have no such rule in place; we simply have been together so long and are so secure with each other that there's no need. We are still attracted to each other like it was day one in heat; the sex with others just adds to it.

 

To summarize, I think your notion of swinging can be achieved, emotionally and physically, but it will take quite some time to reach the level of security, truthfulness and communication necessary to be successful in this, when and if you find a suitable partner. As just posted, swinging is not for most, so if you and your eventual partner fall into it, kudos to you. Probability says you probably won't; the statistics are just against you to find a woman who has the right mind set.

 

I'm sure [or hope] you realize that while there are the sweaty piles of bodies in orgy types of situations, that there are also the one on one with mutually HWP people that would appeal to you and your 'to be' partner, when you find her. It is key to realize that there are all types in this scene, none better, none worse; the sex is phenomenal with some, not so good with others, and that's widely understood and no reason to judge [which I really don't perceive that you have].

Thank you, so much, L&T for your kind words, you two are aces in my book. I really can only go from my own experiences. In the multiple partner category, that includes 2 "orgies", and 6 or 7 FMF threesomes. Both orgies were between 15 - 20 people, in 3 or 4 rooms. The smell was disgusting. Sweat, semen, feces, stale beer belches, incense, 20 different kinds of cologne, aftershave and perfume, it was awful. The threesomes were great!! My two partners (one was my ex-wife) and I got along wonderfully, and we even considered starting a Poly marriage, but one of the girls had to move away for work. Sexually, it was extremely satisfying for all. I still sleep with both partners when I want, if we have the time. That's not to mean that I cheated on my GF, when we became (as I thought) exclusive, I quit having sex with my ex-wife and my ex threesome partner, then. Hey, now that I'm no longer attached, I can start doing both of them again, so that's a positive, right?

[WhatisTruth 41]

Big rock, I dont think its necessarily the fact that you disagree with some activities (many do), but rather the way you communicate those disagreements. At least from my perspective, it is a linguistics and attitude thing moreso than a cognitive disposition. Now I don't know if that's really fair considering the medium, but that's another issue. Anywho, I'm late to this thread, so I could be wrong altogether.

[Alura 2,774]

Alura , you need not be quite so defensive. I didn't call anyone here, anything, but merely expressed my issues with some parts ( but not ALL parts) of the swinging life-style. Surely you are mature enough to discuss a subject without taking offense? Perhaps you mean something else? There was no need for your insult, I did not insult you. Perhaps you enjoy group sex, but I don't. During one of the orgies, I was having sex with a woman and there was another fat guy grunting and sweating about a foot from me, I find that offensive, sorry.

 

It's been about half a century, Big Rock, since someone questioned my maturity. I must say, it made me feel young again!

 

I didn't mean to come across as defensive. I was quite struck by your ability to portray sex as something vile and dirty. I suppose the "hog wallow" scenario was the most offensive to me. My people haven't cared much for hogs since Buffalo Bill and his fellow killers slaughtered tens of thousands of our bison for their hides and tongues (and left the rest to rot on the prairie), and offered "the white man's rotten greasy meat" as a substitute. Hogs are as offensive to me as most types of swinging seem to be to you.

 

All swinging does not require crowds. My late wife and I (with one exception) played with one other couple at a time. In either case, however, there is no way of explaining the wonderful feeling at the end of the evening, usually at home in our own bed, when my wife and I were alone together and sharing our love in sexuality, which far surpassed any thrill we had had during play with others.

 

In your case, I can only offer the following simile: "Swinging is like riding a Harley. For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation is possible."

 

Big Rock wrote: If something needs to be "reconnected", then it first must be "disconnected", this is plain English.

 

No, this is horse shit.

 

Alura

[Big Rock 173]

It's been about half a century, Big Rock, since someone questioned my maturity. I must say, it made me feel young again!

 

I didn't mean to come across as defensive. I was quite struck by your ability to portray sex as something vile and dirty. I suppose the "hog wallow" scenario was the most offensive to me. My people haven't cared much for hogs since Buffalo Bill and his fellow killers slaughtered tens of thousands of our bison for their hides and tongues (and left the rest to rot on the prairie), and offered "the white man's rotten greasy meat" as a substitute. Hogs are as offensive to me as most types of swinging seem to be to you.

 

All swinging does not require crowds. My late wife and I (with one exception) played with one other couple at a time. In either case, however, there is no way of explaining the wonderful feeling at the end of the evening, usually at home in our own bed, when my wife and I were alone together and sharing our love in sexuality, which far surpassed any thrill we had had during play with others.

 

In your case, I can only offer the following simile: "Swinging is like riding a Harley. For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation is possible."

 

Big Rock wrote: If something needs to be "reconnected", then it first must be "disconnected", this is plain English.

 

No, this is horse shit.

 

Alura

Alura, you seem to have an issue with me, so I would suggest maybe you post in another thread? You are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that, but I came here for creative help. I didn't come here to get into some kind of internet tit-for-tat with you or anyone else. BTW having ridden many bikes from Harleys to rockets, you analogy stinks. Harleys being the best, would be having spectacular , mindblowing sex with the one person you are in love with the most, anything else would be just .........casual.

[Big Rock 173]

Big rock, I dont think its necessarily the fact that you disagree with some activities (many do), but rather the way you communicate those disagreements. At least from my perspective, it is a linguistics and attitude thing moreso than a cognitive disposition. Now I don't know if that's really fair considering the medium, but that's another issue. Anywho, I'm late to this thread, so I could be wrong altogether.

What you say may be very true, WIT. I'm a former Marine N.C.O., so I DO come off as a little abrupt, sometimes, but I at least try not to personally insult anybody, and will usually try to avoid trouble.

[Alura 2,774]

Alura, you seem to have an issue with me, so I would suggest maybe you post in another thread? You are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that, but I came here for creative help. I didn't come here to get into some kind of internet tit-for-tat with you or anyone else. BTW having ridden many bikes from Harleys to rockets, you analogy stinks. Harleys being the best, would be having spectacular , mindblowing sex with the one person you are in love with the most, anything else would be just .........casual.

 

I have no issue with you, Big Rock. I've seen many trolls since I joined here. In fact, I've tried my best to help. I have an issue with some of the things you write, particularly the ugly way you have of describing sex.

 

Alura

[Big Rock 173]

I have no issue with you, Big Rock. I've seen many trolls since I joined here. In fact, I've tried my best to help. I have an issue with some of the things you write, particularly the ugly way you have of describing sex.

 

Alura

Ok, Alura, I'm glad because I don't want to have issues with anybody. I'm really grateful to all of the posters, who have given me advice, and will use or not use that advice, as I see fit. But as to my descriptions of orgies, I will pretty much stand by them. Let me ask you....how would YOU describe a mass of grunting, stinking, sweaty, sloppy, people fu*king? The smell, alone, was worse than my HS football lockerroom. I'm perfectly willing to have my lover's body fluids on me, but 20 other people's fluids? I don't think so. About the time I sit my ass down in a puddle of somebody else's semen, the shit will hit the fan. The amazing thing was that most of these people were professional people. One woman (a nurse, of all things) lay in a bathtub and somebody else (not her husband ) urinated on her. I'm sorry but I don't do things like that. Anybody else want to, fine and dandy, but not this little black duck. If I ever get into the lifestyle, it will be no orgies for Rocky.

[Alura 2,774]

Ok, Alura, I'm glad because I don't want to have issues with anybody. I'm really grateful to all of the posters, who have given me advice, and will use or not use that advice, as I see fit. But as to my descriptions of orgies, I will pretty much stand by them. Let me ask you....how would YOU describe a mass of grunting, stinking, sweaty, sloppy, people fu*king? The smell, alone, was worse than my HS football lockerroom. I'm perfectly willing to have my lover's body fluids on me, but 20 other people's fluids? I don't think so. About the time I sit my ass down in a puddle of somebody else's semen, the shit will hit the fan. The amazing thing was that most of these people were professional people. One woman (a nurse, of all things) lay in a bathtub and somebody else (not her husband ) urinated on her. I'm sorry but I don't do things like that. Anybody else want to, fine and dandy, but not this little black duck. If I ever get into the lifestyle, it will be no orgies for Rocky.

 

Your honor, I rest my case.

 

Alura

[LFM2 1,482]

LFM2 Since I'm the one who ended both relationships, and since I could, if I wanted, restart both relationships at any time I choose, the passive-agressive comments about both my Ex-wife and Ex-gf being lucky, are indeed a slam. Thinly-veiled, but true nevertheless. There are basically three areas of swinging that I have issue with: 1) group sex ( anything over two couples in the same room is offensive to me, not for moral reasons, but for sanitary ones). 2) I do not find being around other naked men to be sexually exciting, quite the contrary. 3) I doubt very much whether most of the swingers can tell the difference between passion and sexual gratification. Casual sex, sex with married people, and certain types of group activities (clubs, parties, etc), I'm OK with.

 

Big Rock, you can take any comment we've made (or I've made) and make it into anything you'd like. Kinda hard to get the true feeling of what any of us say over a bunch of pixels, isn't it? I feel they were not slams -- I'm sorry you thought they were.

 

We all continue to hope you find what you're looking for. Good luck.

[prometheius 137]

LFM2 Since I'm the one who ended both relationships, and since I could, if I wanted, restart both relationships at any time I choose, ...

 

You might be right, but you sure do come across as a real egotist.

 

 

3) I doubt very much whether most of the swingers can tell the difference between passion and sexual gratification.

 

Ok buddy, I’ve read all of your posts and I think it’s time for you to cool your jets ‘cause your starting to piss me off. You have no idea what you are talking about, and I take it as a personal insult that you would stereotype "most" swingers by making a statement that maybe applies to only "some".

 

 

I have repeatedly expressed that there are a great many good things about the "lifestyle", but that there are also a few that I have issue with. Rather than try to explain, these posters prefer to consign me to the "vanilla", world. Somewhat arrogant, don't you think?

 

The other posters here have tried to explain, from a swinger’s viewpoint. The fact that you are not getting the message implies that you are not a swinger, but rather, "vanilla". That in itself is not arrogance.

 

 

I'm a former Marine N.C.O., so I DO come off as a little abrupt, sometimes, but I at least try not to personally insult anybody, and will usually try to avoid trouble. ?

 

I was also formerly in the military and had to salute guys like you. Your stating that you were commissioned strikes me as being arrogant. As to not trying to insult anyone, you did anyways, see above.

BTW, I am college edjumacated too!

 

I have an issue with some of the things you write, particularly the ugly way you have of describing sex.

 

Alura

 

...a mass of grunting, stinking, sweaty, sloppy, people fu*king? The smell, alone, was worse than my HS football lockerroom. I'm perfectly willing to have my lover's body fluids on me, but 20 other people's fluids? I don't think so. About the time I sit my ass down in a puddle of somebody else's semen, the shit will hit the fan. The amazing thing was that most of these people were professional people. One woman (a nurse, of all things) lay in a bathtub and somebody else (not her husband ) urinated on her.

 

Your Honor, this juror finds the defendant, guilty.

Rock, you came here looking for advise and you got it with no holds barred. If you don't like what you hear, please don't resort to insults or raising the ire of venerables, such as Alura, you are doing yourself no favors within this community. Take a moment, calm down, respect others opinions for what they are worth, and appreciate this forum for what it is. As with all other respondents to your posts, we all continue to hope you find what you're looking for. Good luck, and I wish you well!

[Chicup 41]

Why are we still discussing this?

 

He dumped her (rightly so) and that should be that.

 

The continued drama and discussion has me rethinking by 'Dear Penthouse letters' thought.

[Alura 2,774]

 

He dumped her (rightly so) and that should be that.

 

Do you watch "Top Gear," Chicup? It's a great show if you like cars. I'm a fan of Jeremy.

 

Alura

[Chicup 41]

Do you watch "Top Gear," Chicup? It's a great show if you like cars. I'm a fan of Jeremy.

 

Alura

 

I just can't quite get into it. I like my cars to be reliable, and comfortable, handle well, but I don't get excited on its zero to 60, being it gets me there no faster.

 

Women on the other hand, I like a few more performance options

[Learning 160]

I second the Big Rock got his answers from us. It's an awful time in a persons life when a relationship ends. Good luck Big Rock.

[Big Rock 173]

You might be right, but you sure do come across as a real egotist.

 

 

 

 

Ok buddy, I’ve read all of your posts and I think it’s time for you to cool your jets ‘cause your starting to piss me off. You have no idea what you are talking about, and I take it as a personal insult that you would stereotype "most" swingers by making a statement that maybe applies to only "some".

 

 

 

 

The other posters here have tried to explain, from a swinger’s viewpoint. The fact that you are not getting the message implies that you are not a swinger, but rather, "vanilla". That in itself is not arrogance.

 

 

 

 

I was also formerly in the military and had to salute guys like you. Your stating that you were commissioned strikes me as being arrogant. As to not trying to insult anyone, you did anyways, see above.

BTW, I am college edjumacated too!

 

 

 

 

 

Your Honor, this juror finds the defendant, guilty.

Rock, you came here looking for advise and you got it with no holds barred. If you don't like what you hear, please don't resort to insults or raising the ire of venerables, such as Alura, you are doing yourself no favors within this community. Take a moment, calm down, respect others opinions for what they are worth, and appreciate this forum for what it is. As with all other respondents to your posts, we all continue to hope you find what you're looking for. Good luck, and I wish you well!

Well, PRO, I didn't know I was on trial for anything. As far as explaining goes, every time I question anything about the lifestyle, I get no straight answers just the same old, same old, that only swingers understand, so no, I didn't get any useful answers, about the lifestyle and yes I did get useful answers about my GF's cheating.. As far as Alura being "Venerable," I'll take your word on it. I came here , in good faith, and the "venerable", Alura has put me on some kind of imaginary trial. So....who cares? BTW, I don't think you were in the Military, because every military man or woman knows from day one, that you don't salute Non-commissioned Officers, only commissioned ones. I was an N.C.O.........Chicup and Learning, I agree that I've gotten all the info I needed to dump her butt, and try to restart my life sans GF. I do thank ALL of those who tried to help, and am very grateful. To all of those who "convicted", me and gave me Knee-jerk answers, have a nice day.

[Big Rock 173]

Now, how do I go about closing this thread?

[Alura 2,774]

You don't, a Moderator will.

 

Alura