How do you work past a misfired experience, when you can't reconcile it in your head?

[incommunicado 228]

We have been playing with others, off and on for years. Most of our play time has been together. But, in a few instances, we have played alone, off-site, with trusted friends, without problems.

 

My wife recently was going away on a business trip (her first) to Nashville, and I got it in my head that it would cool to give her the freedom to play should she find an opportunity, provided she come home to me with a good story. Well, she had the opportunity, and motive, and brought back a good story. She was also very careful, (chose someone who is on the other side of the country who can't come back to haunt her personally or professionally) and has honored all aspects of her side of the bargain.

 

Trouble is, though the sex story was good, the preliminaries she described seemed better suited for romantic dating, than for a person looking to have a one night encounter. They walked and talked, arm-in-arm, through this amazing place, bantered, flirted, kissed, and ultimately ended back at his room, where they played, snuggled, talked and played some more for a few hours.

 

Now I'm completely, ache in the pit of my stomach, feeling like I got cheated on, jealous. Not of the sex, but of all the circumstances surrounding it.

 

I know she has a stressful life and I am certainly part of that stress. I wanted to give her something that would be a nice diversion from that. But, what she brought back sounded more like a magic vacation romance packed into a few hours of an evening. If she had just gone out partying after hours, got drunk, and met some big, stupid, impossibly good looking guy with a huge penis, and had ridiculous animal sex, I would have had no problem.

 

But she somehow had the kind of experience I would like to have with her, if our lives weren't so busy with work and two kids, and I feel like she somehow should have looked around herself and said, this is too special, we haven't been away together in 5 years, I'll save this for my husband. And gone out to some roadhouse bar if she really wanted to bring back a story.

 

And, to tell the truth, I am also a little jealous, because, if our roles were reversed, I am not tall enough, handsome enough, or charming enough, to sweep a beautiful, sexy, intelligent woman convention-goer off her feet and into my hotel room. I'm just not. And it really bugs me, that "p-word" or no, she can and I can't.

 

We've talked about it at length, and she has been very sensitive to my feelings on the subject. She reminds me that we have always been emotionally close and intellectually stimulated by our playmates, and that she doesn't do pure animal sex, and had never just picked someone up (before this). And this is all true. She feels like she should have known better than to do it, like somehow it would come back to bite her in the ass, even though she did what she was supposed to do. Or, somehow known to have much more narrow, stringent, rules surrounding the circumstances. We've agreed we won't do something like this again. But, that doesn't take back what happened, or the circumstances surrounding it. And, that's what I really need in order to move forward.

 

Now, with this experience as impetus, we have finally scheduled our first weekend away without kids in 5 years, NEXT WEEK, to a nearby resort in DC. And, since I can't let this go, I know I am going to spend the whole time competing with what she experienced on her trip. Trying to be more arm-in-arm-ier, more banter-ier, more flirt-ier, more charming-ier (too much?), and take her to way more romantic and amazing stuff that this resort has to offer. But, nothing I do will measure up, because, whatever I do, the charming stranger got there first, and I'm just the chubby bald guy she's been stuck being stressed out by, for the past 20 years. Plus the other resort she went to is 3 times the size of the one we are going to, with much more amazing amenities. Face it... bigger really is better.

 

What I really need is a hot tub time machine. Anyone got one?

[Chicup 41]

Lets get down to the brass tacks and you basically spelled it out anyways, you are deep down insecure.

 

And while most people will use insecure as a negative, I don't think it is in this case. I would feel the same way if my wife did something like that. And you are right its not the sex itself, its everything leading up to and around the sex.

 

All you can do is take it as a learning experience, realize your wife is doing everything she can after, and you WILL get over it. I had a similar feeling the first time we swapped as it was separate and while in that case it was the sex, the same anxiety and annoyance with myself for feeling like that happened. Yes it passed but it took me a good couple of weeks for it not to bug me if I thought about it.

[Swing*8701 887]

Ed here-- Man to man: Grow up ! She went out and had a great time as you had told her to do. It just wasn't the great time you wanted her to have. She had the great time she wanted to have. She's not the type of woman to pick up some stud and be made a whore out of and you think that's a bad thing !? You're comparing yourself with a guy she will never see again. Instead of being happy for her, you're being petty. The good that came out of this is that you are finally taking that 'getaway' you should have taken a long time ago.

 

As far as you feeling 'man enough' to score with women: Well, pal, argue for your limitations and they are yours. Lastly, if you don't feel you deserve a woman like your wife, and you keep acting as if you don't, you'll get your wish.

 

Again, 'man up', put it behind you and have a great time with her.

[Chicup 41]

Ed here-- Man to man: Grow up ! She went out and had a great time as you had told her to do. It just wasn't the great time you wanted her to have. She had the great time she wanted to have. She's not the type of woman to pick up some stud and be made a whore out of and you think that's a bad thing !? You're comparing yourself with a guy she will never see again. Instead of being happy for her, you're being petty. The good that came out of this is that you are finally taking that 'getaway' you should have taken a long time ago.

 

As far as you feeling 'man enough' to score with women: Well, pal, argue for your limitations and they are yours. Lastly, if you don't feel you deserve a woman like your wife, and you keep acting as if you don't, you'll get your wish.

 

Again, 'man up', put it behind you and have a great time with her.

 

I think he has manned up, he spelled it all out in his post. This doesn't really change the visceral level you are feeling. Intellectually you can justify it all you like, but jealousy and insecurity doesn't just go away logically because its often illogical.

 

In my case it was even less of an issue, I had sex with his (VERY hot) wife he had sex with mine, we should be even! But it still bugged me for a couple of weeks. I kept my mouth shut about it, but that initial jealousy didn't want to listen to reason.

 

Still you do get over it.

[incommunicado 228]

I have never had a problem any time we have been with people together, or separately with people we knew. She has been with significantly better looking men, gigantically better endowed men (and she is one who enjoys that) and I have not been insecure.

 

But, tell me that she happened to be in a most amazing place, having just the kind of interaction we would have if time, money, kids etc allowed it, with someone else, and I feel like I got totally scooped in a way that I can't get back.

 

Man to man: how would you feel if someone else played catch with your son for the first time? How would you feel if you just got your dream sports car and someone else ran over and took it for a spin before you? How would you feel if your wife was a virgin on your wedding night, you went out for ice, and the best man got to her before you did? Emotionally, this is the same thing.

 

The first vacation alone with my wife, after five years of exclusive child-rearing (and I'm the primary care provider), to a beautiful place, with romance, walks down an inside "Mainstreet USA" past a full-sized, indoor, river delta, ending in snuggly-sweet romantic sex, should have been between us. Forgive me if I'm a little put out that the stars aligned between her and someone else. Even if it was only for an evening, it happened without me.

 

Thanks to those that actually understand.

 

 

Ed here-- Man to man: Grow up ! She went out and had a great time as you had told her to do. It just wasn't the great time you wanted her to have. She had the great time she wanted to have. She's not the type of woman to pick up some stud and be made a whore out of and you think that's a bad thing !? You're comparing yourself with a guy she will never see again. Instead of being happy for her, you're being petty. The good that came out of this is that you are finally taking that 'getaway' you should have taken a long time ago.

 

As far as you feeling 'man enough' to score with women: Well, pal, argue for your limitations and they are yours. Lastly, if you don't feel you deserve a woman like your wife, and you keep acting as if you don't, you'll get your wish.

 

Again, 'man up', put it behind you and have a great time with her.

[Swing*8701 887]

Wow, okay, I'm going to answer you on this. First, nothing wrong with having the emotions you had. What's wrong is indulging them like a spoiled child that misses their Halloween candy after eating it all.

 

Regarding if someone played ,'catch,' with my son. If I told my son he could play ,'catch', with anyone he liked and my son had a great time, then, I should be happy for him. Also, I'd enjoy the next game.

 

I have my dream car, a Lotus Super Seven. It's my second one. The first one was actually destroyed. Fortunately no one was harmed, it was parked. My wife was driving it home and stopped to pick up some takeout. I am never attached to a material object. I had no problem with her being the first to drive it.

 

Virgin on a wedding night ? I would never have such a silly expectation of a woman. In fact, if I could strike the word ,'virgin' and it's supposed value, from all existence, I would. And, even if I held such things to be of value, my Best Man would never betray me. My friends are well chosen.

 

Your wife went out and did what you suggested she do. Afterwards, you find yourself resentful. You built this moment in time with your own two hands. Deal with it. You sir, are a selfish , coward of a man and your wife deserves so much better than you. You seem to have a fetish for being first: lost games of ,'catch', the first drive of a new car and corrupted virginal opportunities. Such desires are those of the foolish. Lastly, if you feel that your vacation location is corrupted, then go somewhere else.

[Guest rdy46227]

I can understand very much where you're coming from. Not having recently offered your spouse the attention she got while away also adds a lot of guilt.

 

You've told her how it made you feel. Now my suggestion is to re-focus on the fact that she had a good time, and then she came home to you. Be happy that she's happy, and a lot of your problem will go away.

 

Also, having a very good experience when you go out to the resort next week should help mucho. You'll feel closer, you'll assuage your guilt, and the connection between you two will be reinforced.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

Ok, I have a couple of takes on this.

 

First a bit of a rant: if you waited 20 years to play catch with your son the first time, had your "new" sports car for 20 years before you drove it, or waited 20 years after marrying your wife to take her virginity, then I would say "well job" to whoever stepped up in your place. If something is important to you, you don't wait 20 years to do it. You don't wait 20 years to figure out that it is important to your spouse.

 

You seem to be most upset that someone beat you to the draw on something that you should have done years ago. If you did do it years ago, then he did not beat you to the draw. Either way I have a tough time feeling empathy with you because I can't blame your wife in the least for doing something different than what she normally has. Fulfilling fantasies is part of the thrill of swinging. And if you have not done it with 20 years opportunity than she likely figured you never would. She had a green light to go have fun and she thought that was the best way to do it. Not to mention, probably much safer than playing Mrs. Goodbar at a local honky tonk.

 

Now a calmer point.

I have learned that some people in the life style want to do things just like the do them outside the LS. Other people want things to be completely different.

 

There are numerous reasons for this.

Sometimes people want thing different because they want what they normally do to be special, other sometimes because they get to do something different and like the change of pace. Sometimes it is because it is part of a fantasy. Sometimes things are the same or different because that is just how they unfold, which sounds like the case here.

 

The idea that ones spouse should only want things that their spouse wants for them or his fantasies of what she would do, should be what she does, regardless of her fantasies, does not make sense to me. You gave her a hall pass to have fun. Sounds like you thought that would be a good randy fuck and she wanted a relaxed dinner, drinks and passionate sex.

 

Personally, I can't think of much we have not done together before swinging that she could do now (excluding of course things like threesomes and orgies). We have taken the time to know what each othe wants and make the best effort to do those things with each other. If it were to be something totally different, it would have to be something extraordinary, like being seduced while watching the aurora borealis from a private G5, sipping a 95 Krug Clos Du Mesnil and eating Almas caviar and wagyu carpaccio.

 

I am no billionaire, so I can't do that for her. But if she were to get that opportunity to experience that level of opulence and wanted to, (with someone she was attracted to) then I would say "go for it baby", because it would be nothing more than a fantasy. If there was something I felt uncomfortable with I would discuss it with her before hand. I am not sure she would even enjoy something like that, not really her style. But if it were, I am secure enough to know she loves me more than the fantasy, money or opulent romantic overtures.

 

In the end it looks like:

1. You gave your wife a green light and with no discussion of boundaries, she took you at your word and had a good time and now you are jealous. That begs the question if you are as secure you are in your relationship as you thought.

2. Mad at yourself for not treating your wife as least as good as stranger and now are letting your wife pay for it because she has to deal with your attitude.

[sexcupid 809]

I guess my question for you is how did you think the scenario with your wife should have played out?

 

If you know she is a more sensual person that appreciates making a connection (hence the flirtiness, hand holding, and general making a connection with someone...as well as hanging out in his room and relaxing between rounds of sex) and not exactly the type of lady to just grab a random guy at the bar, drag him to the bathroom and hike her skirt up for a quickie...it seems like you were expecting her to be person #2 instead of being who she is.

 

Its great that you are taking what is probably a long overdue weekend to yourselves...my advice to you...don't try to be -ier more of everything that experienced with her convention tryst...you will come across as trying too hard and it will backfire on you and probably make the trip miserable. You are already setting yourself up to be miserable before you even get there by saying that its not as nice as the place that she was just at for a business trip. Who cares? Relax and have fun.

 

Reflect on why you think/know you are part of the stress in her life for 20 years and figure out why you think you are stressful instead of enjoyable. There are plenty of she's hot/he's not couples in the LS...are you really one of those or are you just idealizing this guy to be the perfect specimen?

[ViSexual 1,008]

Man, this is a difficult one. Mayby if you look at it like she read a romantic book. It's easy for a guy to be that romantic and seductive for a night or weekend, just like it's easy to write a book to win a woman's heart for one read.

 

But, you're the one she's with for life! She'll never see him again! So what, she read a romance book on vacation and got to experience it.

 

OK, I know, you still feel the pain but hope it's mitigated a little with our understanding.

 

Oh, and don't try to compete with a romance novel..., and don't try to look like the cover either!

[DigginIt 1,132]

You can't help your feelings and it's obvious that people here have different thoughts on it.

 

Unfortunately I agree with most of them that this is one of those occasions you are going to have to suck it up and get over it.

 

BUT...

 

Maybe this might help ease some of the pain. My wife does not swing for the sex. I do. She LIVES for the romance. She wants that "flighty" feeling in her stomach that she only gets when there is someone there "wooing" her.

 

Not speaking for everyone here but for me (and I think most men) we get hot and horny when a woman takes off her shirt. My wife NEEDS the mental foreplay to get aroused and therefore had she been in your wife's place it would have been exactly the same. The flirting, kissing, very touchy-feely romantic stuff that has you all worked up.

 

You expected hot dirty sex which you are capable of dealing with but your ego has been bruised because you felt she gave something that was reserved only for you (tenderness and loving, etc.)

 

Understand that men and women are different and realize that your wife LOVES you and it's not a threat to your relationship and you should be happy for her.

[MN Tom 251]

You know, my take on this revolved around the wife enjoying a time she had. That part is awesome.

 

And even though (if it happened to me) it would be hard to swallow, the other part of it about being jealous that she enjoyed a time that we hadnt really done yet was good too.

 

You know why? It's because this experience allowed her and you to see what she really likes. She experienced something that was very fun to her, and now you know it. Imagine if she didnt have this experience and it took you guys another 10 years to discover it?

 

That is how I view this, it's a half full glass and I would be very thankful we discovered it now.

[Alura 2,774]

As my ol' Pappy used to say, Incommunicado, "Shouldadones don't count."

 

I don't advise playing separately because it can often lead to a lot of "you shoulda!"(s) between otherwise successful swingers. In your case, however, it seems your wife did nothing y'all hadn't agreed to, including telling you all about it upon her return. You have no right to be angry with her or for not having tailored her experience to issues which even you didn't know were in your mind... and your mind is what we need to work with. That's where the problem is.

 

I think it would help your state of mind to apologize to your wife for having inserted drama into a fun, new experience, in which she did no wrong. That will help you start to get over this.

 

I think you and your wife have been denying yourselves too much in life. I remember when we had two kids at home (both in diapers, for awhile)... You need to play together to satisfy both your needs, especially hers to be romantically wooed. Imagination is key. Take her out and split a foot-long sandwich while pretending its a multi-course dinner at a 5-Star restaurant. Stop and kiss under the streetlights on your walk home. Later, when you slide into her, tenderly hold her face in your hands, look deeply into her eyes and say, "I love you so much." No other man can do that.

 

... and remember ... "shoulldadones" really don't count.

 

Alura

[incommunicado 228]

Wow, okay, I'm going to answer you on this. First, nothing wrong with having the emotions you had. What's wrong is indulging them like a spoiled child that misses their Halloween candy after eating it all.

 

Regarding if someone played ,'catch,' with my son. If I told my son he could play ,'catch', with anyone he liked and my son had a great time, then, I should be happy for him. Also, I'd enjoy the next game.

 

I have my dream car, a Lotus Super Seven. It's my second one. The first one was actually destroyed. Fortunately no one was harmed, it was parked. My wife was driving it home and stopped to pick up some takeout. I am never attached to a material object. I had no problem with her being the first to drive it.

 

Virgin on a wedding night ? I would never have such a silly expectation of a woman. In fact, if I could strike the word ,'virgin' and it's supposed value, from all existence, I would. And, even if I held such things to be of value, my Best Man would never betray me. My friends are well chosen.

 

Your wife went out and did what you suggested she do. Afterwards, you find yourself resentful. You built this moment in time with your own two hands. Deal with it. You sir, are a selfish , coward of a man and your wife deserves so much better than you. You seem to have a fetish for being first: lost games of ,'catch', the first drive of a new car and corrupted virginal opportunities. Such desires are those of the foolish. Lastly, if you feel that your vacation location is corrupted, then go somewhere else. Sheesh, what a wuss.

 

You know, I clearly laid out the whole scenario, including my complicity. I owned my mistake, end to end. I had an idea of offering something, but had no ideas of the boundaries I would would want in place, because I didn't know I would be affected this way.

 

We've spent 5 years caught up in the reality of jobs, raising kids, and not having the time, money or resources to take time for ourselves. So, when she had the chance to go away on business, I offered her a freebie. And I totally expected her to take it if she had the chance. But, I really did assume it would be some kind of bar or dance hall pickup if it happened. When the reality of the story slams me in the face, that she got to enjoy a mini-romance at a magical place, when we, again, have not had time, money and resources (i.e. someone to take the kids for even a night or two), it hurt. But, I never got mad at her and I never told her she did anything wrong. I just said, I wished that had been me. That after 5 years of fully sharing, responsibility in our lives, and bearing the the brunt of the child-rearing, I felt like a proxy got to enjoy my romantic get-away. It's a purely, emotional response. Forgive me if I over reacted.

 

But, again, I never placed blame. I owned my part in everything. All I asked was for some perspective. This is a swinger site, where people take leaps of faith like this all the time, not all of them work out, and sometimes people get hurt, even if everyone played by the rules. I figured I might get a little more sympathy and maybe some advice about how to reconcile such emotions.

 

But, in the back of my mind, I also I expected to get some responses from people like you (and, read down the responses, you're not the only one, so I'm not singling you out). People who don't read a post for what it really is. People looking to posture, and place blame. But, I never cease to marvel at the hubris that nameless, faceless people are willing to show online, calling people names such as "coward" "spoiled child" and "wuss". Names that they would never have the courage to call someone to there face, because, even in the civilized world, there are repercussions for such things. Sir, you don't really know me. You haven't lived my life, or walked in my shoes in any way, and you obviously haven't read my post clearly enough. So, if you want to comment. Read my post again. Read it clearly for what it is, and what I have stated it is. And be constructive, or go elsewhere.

[Swing*8701 887]

Ed here---I'd say everything I wrote to your face.

 

As far as your search for ,'perspective,' here goes: I'd never live your life, I have no interest in your shoes and I wouldn't try to validate the emotions you are expressing.

 

Your wife had a great time and instead of being happy for her, you have corrupted that nice experience she had in the name of understanding your emotions. You are selfish.

 

What gets me is that if she had some pickup and been treated like a whore, you would have loved it. Her experience would have then served you. Instead she had an experience that served her . My hope is that you will try and be happy for her.

[incommunicado 228]

I agree with you on some points. Not completely on others.

 

But, I was just asking how to deal with the feelings. I already stated that I understood it was all on me.

 

Ok, I have a couple of takes on this.

 

First a bit of a rant: if you waited 20 years to play catch with your son the first time, had your "new" sports car for 20 years before you drove it, or waited 20 years after marrying your wife to take her virginity, then I would say "well job" to whoever stepped up in your place. If something is important to you, you don't wait 20 years to do it. You don't wait 20 years to figure out that it is important to your spouse.

 

You seem to be most upset that someone beat you to the draw on something that you should have done years ago. If you did do it years ago, then he did not beat you to the draw. Either way I have a tough time feeling empathy with you because I can't blame your wife in the least for doing something different than what she normally has. Fulfilling fantasies is part of the thrill of swinging. And if you have not done it with 20 years opportunity than she likely figured you never would. She had a green light to go have fun and she thought that was the best way to do it. Not to mention, probably much safer than playing Mrs. Goodbar at a local honky tonk.

 

Now a calmer point.

I have learned that some people in the life style want to do things just like the do them outside the LS. Other people want things to be completely different.

 

There are numerous reasons for this.

Sometimes people want thing different because they want what they normally do to be special, other sometimes because they get to do something different and like the change of pace. Sometimes it is because it is part of a fantasy. Sometimes things are the same or different because that is just how they unfold, which sounds like the case here.

 

The idea that ones spouse should only want things that their spouse wants for them or his fantasies of what she would do, should be what she does, regardless of her fantasies, does not make sense to me. You gave her a hall pass to have fun. Sounds like you thought that would be a good randy fuck and she wanted a relaxed dinner, drinks and passionate sex.

 

Personally, I can't think of much we have not done together before swinging that she could do now (excluding of course things like threesomes and orgies). We have taken the time to know what each othe wants and make the best effort to do those things with each other. If it were to be something totally different, it would have to be something extraordinary, like being seduced while watching the aurora borealis from a private G5, sipping a 95 Krug Clos Du Mesnil and eating Almas caviar and wagyu carpaccio.

 

I am no billionaire, so I can't do that for her. But if she were to get that opportunity to experience that level of opulence and wanted to, (with someone she was attracted to) then I would say "go for it baby", because it would be nothing more than a fantasy. If there was something I felt uncomfortable with I would discuss it with her before hand. I am not sure she would even enjoy something like that, not really her style. But if it were, I am secure enough to know she loves me more than the fantasy, money or opulent romantic overtures.

 

In the end it looks like:

1. You gave your wife a green light and with no discussion of boundaries, she took you at your word and had a good time and now you are jealous. That begs the question if you are as secure you are in your relationship as you thought.

2. Mad at yourself for not treating your wife as least as good as stranger and now are letting your wife pay for it because she has to deal with your attitude.

[incommunicado 228]

Thank you, to all of you who understood and offered constructive support.

 

You were right, the feelings to start to reconcile themselves, and I know it's not going to be the end of the world.

 

To those that didn't understand, or were overly critical, we'll have to agree to disagree. And, if my experience on this site is any indication, you are the ones who will keep commenting on this thread, long after I have stopped reading.

[Chicup 41]

But, I was just asking how to deal with the feelings.

 

Besides the cliche, and typical, time heals all wounds, you should assault the problem head on and that problem is not having a romantic relationship with your wife.

 

Having kids myself and until recently almost no babysitting, I know exactly how that goes. We were lucky enough to get about 5 days a year without the kids for a vacation and those are really needed. Now I don't know your situation specifically, but even if you can get a few hours a week to go to dinner one night, it will help a lot.

[bbarnsworth 2,640]

Stop competing with a phantom. You will NEVER measure up; not because you can't, but because the image in your head won't go away and you will forever find yourself second guessing, wondering if what you're doing is good enough, if what you're giving your wife is enough for her. STOP IT. STOP IT. STOP IT.

 

I know you're not saying as much, but your wife didn't do anything wrong. She did exactly as you outlined. But, you didn't outline that you wanted her to have animal sex with a random guy. You offered her the opportunity to play, and she took it. Your wife ended up having a wonderful evening, with a man who was a gentleman with her, who treated her right, respected her, cared for her, and gave her a very pleasant evening. Now really, you have a reason to be upset at that?

 

At the end of the convention, did your wife get on the plane and come home to you and profess her love to you, or did she call and say "I want a divorce. This guy's waaaay better than you, and I can't believe I wasted 20 years on you!"

 

The problem here is a failure to communicate expectations before she left, between each other, and a failure to live up to expectations that were never voiced. No, you can't rewind and erase the past. What you can do is say, ok, we made a mistake, one we won't make again, and we'll move forward with the knowledge gained.

 

What is it you are really bothered about moving forward? Do you value your marriage, your decades long relationship with your wife so little that one evening with a great guy would shatter your confidence so much that you can never find it in yourself to think your marriage is wonderful again? That you can do enough for your wife again?

 

What are you going to do when your wife reports that swing partner John Doe, whom she had animalistic sex with, was the best sex, the best orgasms she's had of her life?

 

Did you get totally scooped? No, you didn't. Your wife had a fantastic evening. Was their romance involved? Let's say there was a TON of romance involved. So what? She's never going to see him again. Any feelings she experienced that evening are an absolutely pale shadow to what she's experienced with you. Or is your relationship really that shallow that one night with a great guy can compete with you????

 

This guy didn't get to your wife 'first' or any of the other analogies you laid out. He treated your wife with a hell of a lot of respect. You should be happy about that. I sure as heck wouldn't want my wife playing with some guy who doesn't treat her well, who just wants to use her for sex.

 

You had no idea of the boundaries to place. Well, now you do. Lesson learned. What needs to happen now is to move forward. Stop living it over and over again in your head. And you know what? You're going to have a heck of a lot better time on your vacation with your wife if you STOP living it in your head, start being confident again (and confidence is sexy as hell) and stop worrying about things you can not change in any respect.

 

5 years caught up in reality? Ok, you just had a dose of reality thrown at you. REAL reality. You can't get married, start having kids, and expect to live out the fairy tale. You have to work at marriage. It's not a gimme. No time for yourselves? MAKE time. Babysitters, day care, something. Get some time to be just the two of you together for a few nights a month. You've got to get back to being a couple. If for no other reason than being good parents. If you can find time for swinging, you can find time to date each other. Dating each other is a hell of a lot more important.

 

Please understand, I'm not out to place blame here, but I have to agree with some of the forum posters above; the onus is on you here. There's nothing your wife can do that she most likely hasn't already done. It's up to you to make this right. You do that by walking forward and stop living the past.

 

I don't think you're necessarily not cut out for swinging. But, I would take a hiatus from ANYthing swing related until you've gotten back to basics with your wife. That includes regular dates with her. That includes making romantic moments happen. That includes finding ways to treat her like the queen of your heart she is. You say you make her life stressful. Figure out a way to prevent that, and move forward in a way that makes her life easier, more enjoyable, more pleasant, more worth living. My wife tells me from time to time that she loves life with me, and that I make her life so much more pleasant. Figure out a way to get to the same place.

 

As to the romantic moments; this other guy, whom she will never see again, can never match up to that. Leave a surprise note in her car, or leave a recorded CD from you ready to play in the car's player. Send her a sultry text message. Buy her flowers for no reason at all. Send her on a note hunt, that takes her all over the house in search of the next note, leading to a surprise ending. Send her to a salon for a pedi/manicure, and/or a massage. I've never met a woman who would turn down a nice massage. Set up a girls night out for her and one or more female friends of hers, where they just go out to dinner, or shopping, a movie, whatever they want to do. You got horse drawn sleigh or carriage rides in your town or nearby? Take her for one. On a cold night, make her some hot chocolate. Cook her favorite food. If you're snuggled up on the couch, massage her feet. If she's cold in bed, wrap your arms around her and rub her until she's warm. Then keep snuggling! Whenever you pass by her in the house, gently touch her, somewhere, anywhere; touch. If she's at the sink in the kitchen, come up behind her and give her soft kisses on the base of her neck. My wife loves that! Take her out shoe shopping. What thing(s) does she really enjoy in bed? Focus on those the next you you make love with her. Focus on her enjoyment, and not your own. When you're driving somewhere together, place her hand on your thigh, and your hand on top of that. Open the car door for her, and help her with her seat belt. Sometimes when I do this, I 'accidentally' brush my hand against my wife's breast. Little things like that can let her know you still find her sexy as hell after 20 years. Even the most beautiful woman in the world finds fault with herself. You can prove how beautiful and sexy she is to you. What nitty gritty stuff of life consumes her time? Do it yourself. Take out the trash, do the laundry, pay some bills, do the dishes, etc. In every day, EVERY day, there's a zillion opportunities to express your love for her. The devotion you express to your wife in doing these things will be repaid to you in spades. And there's not a damn thing this other guy can do to hold a candle to all of it, even in her memories and in her heart.

[bbarnsworth 2,640]

My wife and I are talking about this, and she just said "If she just had animalistic sex, wouldn't that have really lowered his opinion of her? It sounds to me that he adores his wife. Would he really truly want her to treat herself as not being the fabulous, wonderful terrific woman she is by demeaning herself by having sex with some random, drunken behemoth?"..."I understand it's an emotional response, and it's extremely valid. You're going to respond emotionally"

[incommunicado 228]

O.K. so I checked back in...

 

chicup...bbarnsworth... when you're right, you're right. Can't argue with anything in the last few posts (other than to say, I did mention that she didn't do anything wrong and I don't blame her.)

 

Sage advice.

[padoc 1,703]

Im sure some will think Im harsh but here goes anyway. Grow up! You admitted that you two have played separately, you gave your wife a "hall pass" and as a caveat insisted she tell you about it if she found someone. She did, she did and she did and now your nose is out of joint. She had a good time! So what? It's just sex, she took a shower and its over.

You can agonize over this till you seriously damage your relationship and ruin your wife's nice memories or you can grow up and move on.

 

I didn't take a page and a half to analyze all the "ins and outs", I just went to what I see as the core of the problem...you.

[Swing*8701 887]

Susan here--Over the years, the last five years dare I say, you have made the time to Swing with others. Yet, in those five years, never a romantic weekend for yourselves. No wonder she created a romantic night on her own when the opportunity presented itself. And, what a splendid gentlemen who gave her exactly what she needed knowing full well it would and could only be for that night.

 

First and foremost in any marriage, Swinger or not, is the Marriage. You put anything ahead of that and there's going to be a problem.

 

Sometimes when we play on the sexual playground, we will get our nose 'bloodied'. I hope you learn your lesson and secondly, that you never trouble your wife again about this. Personally, if Ed ever allowed me to play solo and complained as you have, we'd never Swing again. Perhaps, that is something you need to consider.

 

Lastly, the posts from my husband were very direct. All I can say is that he does not indulge the delusional very well. He's been wonderful and happy about every sexual experience that I've had during our marriage. Whether he was there or not.

[incommunicado 228]

You know, I learned my lesson years ago that folks like PADOC and Edison Carter will show up to dish out their harsh answers whether they are needed, relevant or not. But, I still keep letting them get under my skin. Shame on me.

 

I also learned that they will make snap judgments, with very little information, and NO amount of additional background detail will help them understand, or change their perspective. They are looking to "school" someone and nothing will stand in their way. I also know that they will just keep on writing, even after there is no reason to, and a post should end.

 

So, to them, and people like them, I say AGAIN that we will just have to agree to disagree. This is a big site. I'm sure they can find plenty of people who can't live without your special brand of tough love.

 

And to those that actually understood my post, understood that I took responsibility from the beginning, and did not place any blame on my wife, but ALSO understood exactly why I am hurt and disappointed, thank you for your understanding. You DIDN'T all tell me what I wanted to hear, which makes your support genuine, and I appreciate it, AND your advice.

 

I also want to thank my wife for, among many things, understanding my feelings and supporting me. In the end, the only person that needs to understand is her.

[incommunicado 228]

How about we consider this thread closed?

[Swing*8701 887]

Your wife may be the only one you need to understand you, but you keep coming back here explaining yourself ad nauseum. And, if she really mattered, why haven't you taken the time that you invested in writing reply after reply and do something nice for her ?

[lovinher 505]

The guy came here for advice on how to deal with his feelings. Instead he gets flamed harshly for expressing those feelings. There are way too many on this board who assume that everybody is at their level in swinging and assume everything is black and white.

 

I'd bet my house that responses like this have scared away many couples contemplating swinging-and asking questions on this forum.

[little firefly 64]

The guy came here for advice on how to deal with his feelings. Instead he gets flamed harshly for expressing those feelings. There are way too many on this board who assume that everybody is at their level in swinging and assume everything is black and white.

 

I'd bet my house that responses like this have scared away many couples contemplating swinging-and asking questions on this forum.

 

I wasn't going to comment on this thread but since you said exactly what I've been thinking while I've been following this, I figured I'd go ahead, and goodness knows I've had my share of flaming on here because of feelings I was having trouble dealing with.

 

Emotions and feelings are tricky, fickle little bastards. Sometimes we think we're ok with something until the reality of it hits us in the face, then we don't know how in the world to deal with it (believe me, I know from experience!!). All you can really do is keep communicating with your wife as you said you have, take this as a learning experience (as Chicup said in an earlier post), and move on from there. Just keep reminding yourself that she came home to you after her experience and when the two of you go on your getaway together, she'll be with the man she loves, which in itself will make it MUCH more special for her!

 

incommunicado, I know you wanted this thread considered closed, but I felt you should know that there are some here who really DO understand where you're coming from.

[bbarnsworth 2,640]

I'm never much of a fan of flaming anyone. Textual communication has serious limitations, and the possibility of words being turned around is very real. Treading in areas that might be perceived as hostile can be bad in its own way. That's not to say we should mince words and avoid sensitive subjects.

 

This forum has a broad, broad array of types of people, who each have their own unique experiences to build upon and aide them in expressing their thoughts. My thoughts, previously expressed on this thread, are no more or less valid than those who took a stance the OP finds entirely too aggressive. I think its important we respect the time and effort people make in responding to someone's concern just as much as we should respect the OP for voicing the concern and seeking input.

 

(Apologies to Newton) For every opinion, there's an equal and opposite opinion.

[Swing*8701 887]

I think what happened is that he came here looking for understanding, instead, some of us saw right through him as to what the problem really was...him. Personally, I get real tired of men who complain about a wife who went out and did what he suggested. Except she did not go out an act like the whore that he wanted her to be, but was the lady that she is. And make no mistake about it, by his own admission, he wanted some anonymous guy to strip her naked and fuck her into next week and then tell him all about it. He would have gotten off on that in a huge way.I make no apologies for not being sympathetic to that man and, more importantly, I don't apologize to that man for not understanding him. The fact he continues to seek our understanding here and via email simply raises the paraphrased old axiom from Hamlet: He doth protest too much.

[cocpl2007 170]

There is something very obvious going on in the seams of this thread. Incommunicado, along with those who have passionately replied, and re-replied have deep emotions about what has happened. Both with the Mrs. having a spectacular, albeit enviable time, and you Incommunicado in handling both your “free pass” and the results thereof.

 

As one who has lost a wife, for what has been articulated to me as “I didn’t think you cared enough to get mad” resulting from a similarly granted “free pass” I would reluctantly like to step into this swamp to offer my perspective.

 

What I see in your initial post is the ability to articulate the deep emotions you and your wife are sharing, as a result of… your sharing. Being able to communicate is paramount. You are finding that out now, what you were “granting”, was something different than what she interpreted you were granting with the “free pass”. You can’t un-ring a bell. Don’t try! The sage advice of not trying to become the gentleman your wife had her fling with, is excellent advice.

 

Your wife married you. She is still married to you because she loves, and seeks desperately to understand you. All of you. You, my friend, need to be open to understanding yourself, and what you have in your relationship with her. She shared all the details, even her emotions about the wonderful evening she had, how she honored you, by being herself and using your “free pass” just as she interpreted it. You have to know, she could have hid all this from you, just told you about the time between the sheets.

 

Instead she loves you. In expressing that love, she has the desire to share all of herself with you. You have done the same, only to find yourself struggling with yourself! Welcome to the world! Perhaps many of us here have discovered emotional parts of ourselves through this lifestyle that surprised us, and yes, probably even upset us. I say, go with your emotions, find some resolution for all this within yourself, then, and only then will you be able to find some resolution with your spouse.

 

Discovery is not a bad thing, just ofttimes our ability to handle that which we’ve discovered is a real pain in the - - - !

[lovinher 505]

Barnsworth, I'm usually with you. But then I had a whole page written up then realized textual communication has serious limitations, and the possibility of words being turned around is very real. I could find at least 8 textual communications where the OP was called names that were completely uncalled for.

 

I think some need to go back read what he said.

The op does realize the problem is his and he asked this board on how to deal with it. So what does he get? Answers from a few self righteous swingers who think anything goes and those that don't need to "grow up, are petty, a spoiled child, selfish, a coward, a wuss and delusional". I'm sure I have missed a few. Opinions could have been conveyed without all the name calling. This seems to happen mostly when men especially, express their insecurities. Had this been a woman would these names have been used? Not a chance.

 

It's a good thing some people on this board are so perfect enough to teach others how it should be. Because believe it or not, for some of us some swinging situations are not and Iv'e been here a while. So to say the obvious, many swingers learn (or grow) by asking questions or even just venting. It's those perfect ones who have it all figured out who need to realize that there actually are swingers who don't have it all figured out and still have insecurities. That's why they come here and without them there would be no Swinger's Board.

 

For the record, I would have a problem if my wife went out for a romantic night with platmate (as would she). But that's because we are in this together only. Like the OP, it wouldn't be the sex but the romance. So does that put us in the same category of names the OP was called? Are we selfish and insecure because our "rule" is we only play together with other couples? For us it's a sexual adventure and frienships we share together-nothing more. IMO if you want or need romance from a swinging partner then........

 

I get my romance at home.

[padoc 1,703]

No one flamed you pal, a few of us simply saw through the bs and refused to psycho-babble you into feeling better. Your wife did exactly what you told her she could and now you're "hurt and disappointed". Grow up.

[Chicup 41]

I wonder how many would be telling a woman to grow up if she wrote the same post about her husband

 

If he were blaming his wife and throwing a fit, that would be where you tell him to grow up. He knows its internal and internal demons like jealousy are not logical.

 

No one flamed you pal, a few of us simply saw through the bs and refused to psycho-babble you into feeling better. Your wife did exactly what you told her she could and now you're "hurt and disappointed".

 

Grow up.

 

Right.......

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

I had started to post a second time earlier, but hesitated for numerous reasons.

 

Among those:

This post, plus referencing the OP's previous post, there is a discord that I cannot put my finger on. Things do not jive completely and it causes me hesitation, because I would not want to pile on someone who is need of help nor do I want to give someone a free pass when the need some tough advice, or even a good swift kick in the pants for stupidity. I can't tell which is needed for this poster. It could be just his writing style, it could be he is giving a very subjective POV, it could be he is in the wrong (and may or may not know it) and needs the kind of advice he does not want to hear. But the OP has been on this forum for almost 8 years, and has a track record of post. It is not hard to look back and see the same mistakes being repeated again and again.

 

Now posters are firing back and forth over what other posters have written.

 

First, incommunicado, threads can only be closed by administrators, which they rarely do. Mainly because people can continue to comment and possibly add advice that would be valuable to others, even if the OP feels it is not helpful.

 

Let me sum things up as I have read them.

 

1. Your wife has cheated on you in the past.

2. Based on previous post, you clearly have some doubts about the lifestyle.

3. You gave your wife a hall pass without enough discussion of what that meant or what you both expected.

4. You were fine with her having sex, if it fit your view of what it should be, and you did not discuss what that was.

5. Your wife has sex in romantic hotel, in a romantic manner.

6. This upset you because she did not get drunk, and met some big, stupid, impossibly good looking guy with a huge penis, and have ridiculous animal sex, even though she does not like to do pure animal sex.

7. You are also upset because you have not had the romantic experience with her, even though you have been married 20 years and have had ample opportunity to do so.

8. You are jealous of your wife because she can pick up a stud, but you can't pick up a babe.

9. You had a long talk and it will never happen again.

10 Your wife feels like she should have know better because she knew (or should have known) it would come back to bite her in the ass, even though she was doing what you said do.

11. In order for you to really get over this you need a time machine to go back take back what happened, or the circumstances surrounding it, because that's what you really need in order to move forward.

12. On the good side you have finally arrange a romantic weekend alone with your wife.

13. But you already know you are going to spend the whole time competing with what she experienced on her trip.

14.Nothing you do will measure up to Mr. Charming because you are a chubby, stressed out bald guy.

15. Not mention it cannot be as romantic because the hotel is smaller and has less amenities.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

The question is how do you move past this experience, when you can't reconcile it in your head.

1. Get out of the lifestyle, at least for the near future, if not forever. I would say forever. You have far too many trust issues and insecurities to be a swinger and not drive yourself nuts and kill yourself with stress. This ain't worth dying for.

2. Sit down and communicate with your wife, notice I did not say talk. Communicating is a two way exercise. Clearly you two are not on the same page, there are trust issues, unrealized expectations and lack of understanding each other.

3. Get some professional help. Marriage counselors could do you a world of good.

 

Does that sound reasonable?

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

I did mention that she didn't do anything wrong and I don't blame her.

 

I have to disagree with you on this. You do not have to look at someone at say "you screwed up" or "its your fault" in order to lay blame at their feet. Often, your actions do far more than words can.

 

From what you described it is very likely that your wife feels you are blaming her. Your reaction, the "agreement" to stop this practice, her fear it would bite her in the ass are all indicators that your actions, if not words, told your wife that you do think she was at fault.

 

Telling us it was okay for her to have animal sex but not romantic sex says the same thing to us. After all, she decided how to have sex and you disapproved.

[exploringRM 305]

You asked for something that we probably can not provide, how to move past this. The genie was out of the bottle and really nothing can put it back. I think the best is you can do is take it as a lesson learned (as well as other readers). Be careful what you wish for as it may not be how you imagine. I'm sure many people with their first encounter feel that way as well..did not turn out as they thought.

 

So one piece of advice I wanted to pass on is be careful about trying too hard on your vacation. It may come across as forced and just not make things any better.

[Chicup 41]

So one piece of advice I wanted to pass on is be careful about trying too hard on your vacation. It may come across as forced and just not make things any better.

 

Good advice.

[Gordo 618]

I must admit this post has taken me to both sides. I understand the posters feelings about "romantic" swinging and can understand his discomfort. I can also appreciate that many women like to make a solid emotional connection before engaging in sex. I also see his insecurities.

 

I tried to think how I would treat a woman under similiar circumstances and realized I would have acted just like that man. Treat her like a queen!

 

But my realization was that it wasn't really romance but an act of gallantry. Something too many of us men have forgotten.

[ViSexual 1,008]

Susan, you have a very intereting, and valid point. Why would anyone expect a spouse to be any different than it's their nature to be just because they're swinging?

 

I, personally, wouldn't want my wife to change her nature just because she's with someone besides me.

 

And, if I were going to be with someone I'd met, and liked, it'd be a real letdown for them to act differently when we were together, sexually.

[Chicup 41]

incommunicado - I've been thinking about this thread and I think perhaps there is an angle you are not thinking about which may help you. When we play, I'm one of those guys who thinks the other male needs to be 'worthy' of my wife. If I think the male isn't good enough for the Mrs. in 'quality' I am not going to pursue the couple no matter how attracted I might be to the other woman. This man she played with treated her with respect and not just a piece of meat conquest for the night. He made her happy and didn't just use her as a fuck toy. That would be a man 'worthy' of my wife so to speak.

[alittleconfused 65]

I dont know a lot as Im fairly new to all this but we had a misfired experience early on and it damn near drove me nuts for a couple weeks.My wife went further and faster than either of us had seriously discussed and it happened during a week I was out of town just to complicate matters.

 

She was completely honest with me, as the OPs wife seems to be with him.I finally reconciled it with her and myself and it was easier than I imagined, I posted it here and got some good advice and a chance to vent a little.

 

And I realized it wasnt just her that fucked up.I had given her the green light to play while I was gone.I had put my job ahead of us and not given the conversation we had when I left the time or consideration it should have warranted.And I had left it very vauge as to what I was comfortable with and what I wasnt.She had misunderstood what I said and got caught up in things faster then she realized and that was it.

 

The OP here has done the same thing, he gave her the go ahead while they were apart and now regrets it.The guy my wifes seeing doesnt sweep her off her feet, her and the other couple get together simply for sex and nothing more as do I.But he respects her and doesnt push things further than she wants to go, and is a helluva nice guy.

 

My advice is to own up to your part in this in your mind, chalk it up to a learning experience, talk it out, and move on.If you keep going over it your going to make it into something it wasnt in your mind and you wont stop thinking about it.She had a good time, with someone shes never gonna see again, then came home to you and told you the truth, seems pretty forgivable to me.

[bbarnsworth 2,640]

incommunicado: You said you'd planned a weekend with your wife, scheduled for this past weekend. Update? How did it go?

[incommunicado 228]

incommunicado: You said you'd planned a weekend with your wife, scheduled for this past weekend. Update? How did it go?

 

Great, thanks for asking. Everything we could have hoped for. Only wish we could have made more than two days of it.

[PTTimeDC 120]

Guilt and envy, my man. That's all it is and it is part of the choice you two made. Unless you specifically detail out everything you expect and exactly what your parameters are, you cannot fault her OR YOURSELF for what happened. Fortunately you two sound like you maturely talked it out and re-focused on how it can benefit the relationship between the two of you. I don't know about others but I'd consider that a success story!

[fun4Ds 1,098]

And to those that actually understood my post, understood that I took responsibility from the beginning, and did not place any blame on my wife, but ALSO understood exactly why I am hurt and disappointed, thank you for your understanding. You DIDN'T all tell me what I wanted to hear, which makes your support genuine, and I appreciate it, AND your advice.

 

I also want to thank my wife for, among many things, understanding my feelings and supporting me. In the end, the only person that needs to understand is her.

At this point I thought about offering some coping ideas I learned many years ago about mantras and such. There are ways to "THINK" about things in a healthy way. But when I read this comment about a thanks to your wife, I felt nothing needed changed. You had the best of the best from each other.

 

Great, thanks for asking. Everything we could have hoped for. Only wish we could have made more than two days of it.

 

I knew this was going to happen AWESOME !

[LFM2 1,482]

When we play, I'm one of those guys who thinks the other male needs to be 'worthy' of my wife. If I think the male isn't good enough for the Mrs. in 'quality' I am not going to pursue the couple no matter how attracted I might be to the other woman. That would be a man 'worthy' of my wife so to speak.

 

I think this has to be one of the top 10 posts I've witnessed. Every swinger should take this advice and run with it. It's a true measure of thinking with the big head instead of the little one. Wives could also use this advice in a vice versa fashion.

 

Thanks Chicup!