Are cheaters accepted more easily than swingers?

[nllswing 81]

I am thinking not about acceptance by the swinging community (which is none) but from the vanillas. It seems that for many, telling that you are in an open relationship is like confessing to "being a weirdo, married to another weirdo" or at least this is how it seems.

 

Does anyone else have similar observations?

[Chicup 41]

This has come up before and the reason is people understand cheaters, cheaters play by the 'rules' set so to speak.

 

Swingers on the other hand they don't get...

 

'Dude, you let some other dude nail your wife, seriously? Dude that's fucked up.'

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

Unfortunately cheating is more accepted in the V world than is swinging.

 

I think it is for a few reasons.

• There is a victim to relate too.
  
• It can be chalked up to someone making a mistake, rather than choice.
  
• Cheating is a symptom of a problem, which means it can be fixed - swingers can't be fixed
  
• Cheating has become so prevalent that people are no longer shocked by it, at least not as shocked as they are by swinging.
  
• Most people cannot wrap their brain around the fact that swingers can be committed to their spouse and still want to have sex with someone else
  

I am sure there are more reasons, but that is more than enough

[VegasLee 1,486]

Cheaters are accepted because most people are cheaters so they can relate.

[nllswing 81]

[*]Cheating is a symptom of a problem, which means it can be fixed - swingers can't be fixed

 

Lol! Thanks! This line made my day.

[cplnuswing 4,712]

Cheaters are accepted because most people are cheaters so they can relate.

 

ding ding ding and there is the winning answer in my book (although the others are good too)

 

It's the rare vanilla bird who 1) hasn't cheated, 2) deep down absolutely knows they would not even if presented the right opportunity & temptation, 3) doesn't know someone who has that they are friends, etc with. It's hard to truly condemn something when you see yourself reflected when you look at it.

 

Swingers on the other hand they don't get...

 

'Dude, you let some other dude nail your wife, seriously? Dude thats fucked up.'

 

I've heard those exact words with the addition of a "would" in there since we were having a purely hypothetical of course guy conversation about the subject. There was the that's fucked up position, my no harm no foul if all are willing position, and then a third one that 'I'd let her do it only because I'd get off on watching several guys do her, but she better not truly enjoy it and when I'm ready then it's just me'.

 

That last one I just can't comprehend, in my book that truly is fucked up.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Cheaters are accepted because most people are cheaters so they can relate.

 

Have to agree with this, I think most people have cheated at some point... and if they haven't cheated they've lied to a partner at some point, so it's a lot easier to relate.

[Swing*8701 887]

Susan here: I still recall this conversation with a friend who does not know we Play

 

Her: Those crazy Swinger people. It's just disgusting.

 

Me: As opposed to the lying and deception that goes on with cheating ?

 

Her: How can you compare that with Swinging ?

 

Me: Well, at least Swinging is honest.

 

Vanilla people simply cannot wrap their head around it. Also, I think 'cheaters' get off on more than the sex. They get into the lying, the deception, the conquering of someone outside their marriage. Cheating is also a reflection of their contempt for their spouse. Meanwhile, Swinging is a celebration of sex as an incorporated extension of marriage.

 

And, by the way, she ended up cheating on her marriage and I no longer speak with her.

[DigginIt 1,132]

We also happen to believe that people want to find things wrong with others to make them feel better about the bad things they are doing. "At least we didn't do that" or "what I'm doing isn't as bad as what they are doing."

 

What else is there really to compare next to cheating (without going off the deep end) other than swinging?

 

I do agree with VegasLee that there are a lot of cheaters out there but then you have the religious nut jobs (this ties into CoupleErotic's bullet) that cheating is a symptom of a problem that can be fixed...You could easily swap fixed with "FORGIVEN"

 

What I'm used to hearing about swinging from vanilla friends is that "the man" must not love his wife and "the wife" must be a whore. These are comments from people that will easily forgive someone for their "one time indiscretion".

 

Just goes to show that people are narrow minded about things they are incapable of understanding or incapable of emotionally dealing with.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

These are comments from people that will easily forgive someone for their "one time indiscretion".

 

I think you hit on another point. Cheating is seen as a single event by most people, even though it rarely is. Swinging, even though most everything vanilla's think about swinging is completely wrong, is seen as a repeat "offense". So how could they possibly love each other, ergo, how could we possibly forgive/understand/defend them.

[Lascivious L&L 866]

Yes, swinging is a much more reasonable answer to the age old problem of monogamy and the human animal not being sexually monogamous. Yet there is often a holier than thou attitude by swingers toward vanilla people. Even the term vanilla is used in a pejorative sense.

 

I did photography for a BDSM group and they used the term vanilla in a similar way toward those who weren't into their scene. And their scene wasn't swinging, though there was an element of that within the BDSM envelope, but they didn't consider it swinging. They often looked down on swingers.

 

It has often been posted that swinging is not for everyone. Not that many people can break the programming virtually all of us have been inoculated with since birth. That happily ever after, marriage is everything programming simply does not work in the human animal. How people deal with that reality is all over the spectrum. Cheating is one way. Not cheating through unhealthy doses of denial is another. People who find swinging as an answer often do so after mistakes of their own, either denial or cheating.

 

Most of us have made serious mistakes, cheating being only one of them. To be smug as a swinger is the same as being smug as a "vanilla" who would never consider swinging.

[DigginIt 1,132]

Yet there is often a holier than thou attitude by swingers toward vanilla people. Even the term vanilla is used in a prejoritive sense.

 

Most of us have made serious mistakes, cheating being only one of them. To be smug as a swinger is the same as being smug as a "vanilla" who would never consider swinging.

 

I don't think you were singling me out on this but my toes did feel a bit stepped on so I wanted to respond.

 

While we do often use the term "vanilla" liberally here when referring to those who do not embrace the lifestyle it's generally to refer specifically to a type of vanilla person or persons and not everyone who isn't a swinger as a whole. It's easier and simpler to just to say my vanilla friends.

 

As in this post for example my use was to personal vanilla friends of mine who look at what we do with judgement and condemnation but they will easily forgive their husband or spouse for cheating on them.

 

If I'm smug in my presentation of my opinion then I accept the label but I prefer to think of my use of the term "vanilla" when I'm referring to others with a sense of amusement as if listening to someone who obviously knows nothing about what they are talking about but they keep on insisting they are right.

 

BUT...it's my ability to reflect back on my vanilla life before turning to swinging that allows me to be more understanding towards things I don't tend to agree with or understand.

[campgirl2in1 74]

People in general disgust me. Two examples of why:

 

1: My wife lived as roommates with a girl she grew up just down the street from. Neighbors all throughout school age and then rented an apartment for a couple of years together during college. They had an on/off sexual relationship the whole time starting at about age 12.

 

Just a few years ago this same gal says during a conversation that "lesbians" are gross and then went on talking shit about gays. My wife was like WTF was that???

 

2: A mutual friend (or so we thought) of ours who is a gay guy was riding in the back of our car home from a dance club one night. He and another female acquaintance back there were saying how lesbians are gross and that there is no such thing as bisexual. People who claim to be bi are just confused or lying to themselves.

 

You would think that these people would be a little more open minded considering their own situations. So its not just people who you would consider vanilla. I call them idiots.

[VegasLee 1,486]

Those idiots that disgust you may have their own very good reasons for thinking and feeling the way they do.

 

Rather then judging them I would be asking them why they feel the way they do so that I could become more enlightened to the views of others. Open minded?

[campgirl2in1 74]

Those idiots that disgust you may have their own very good reasons for thinking and feeling the way they do.

 

Rather then judging them I would be asking them why they feel the way they do so that I could become more enlightened to the views of others. Open minded?

 

I guess I see your point however, then we must ask is it bigoted to hate a bigot for being one?

 

The Mrs is far less tolerant of intolerance than I am. LOL.

[VegasLee 1,486]

I guess I see your point however, then we must ask is it bigoted to hate a bigot for being one?

 

The Mrs is far less tolerant of intolerance than I am. LOL.

 

My feeling is why hate at all?

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it does not effect my happiness so I don't care what they think.

[campgirl2in1 74]

My feeling is why hate at all?

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it does not effect my happiness so I don't care what they think.

 

I agree. We hope to one day find friends (vanilla or not) that don't have glaring character flaws. It seems impossible sometimes. On the one hand you want interesting personalities but then you have... well it's not easy to open yourself up to a person that is harshly judgemental.

 

Jeez man! You got me going on like a chic. Knock it the fuck off already. ;-)

[Big Rock 173]

The idea that cheating is a Vanilla characteristic, and that swingers are somehow more honest is ludicrous. I have never found any group of any kind that had a lock on morality, not even the Amish or Muslims or anyone. Adultery is condemned by almost all cultures, races and creeds. But, the definition of adultery differs as well. As does the definition of "open-mindedness", IME, it usually means you're open-minded if you agree with me, you're closed-minded if you don't. There is a great deal to be said for the old "golden rule", or "live and let live". They both work wonders with questions like this.

[LFM2 1,482]

The idea that cheating is a Vanilla characteristic, and that swingers are somehow more honest is ludicrous. I have never found any group of any kind that had a lock on morality, not even the Amish or Muslims or anyone. Adultery is condemned by almost all cultures, races and creeds. But, the definition of adultery differs as well. As does the definition of "open-mindedness", IME, it usually means you're open-minded if you agree with me, you're closed-minded if you don't. There is a great deal to be said for the old "golden rule", or "live and let live". They both work wonders with questions like this.

 

BR, I am going to try to understand your first sentence is saying that cheating is an honest activity? I am not going to say that swingers are anymore open-minded than the next person, but I do feel for the most part, we are more honest. We are honest with our spouses and with those we play with. I have read many threads and profiles where people are cheating on their spouses. That in no way makes them a swinger -- just a cheater.

 

Let me try to explain. We leave no victims in our wake, which I think cheaters do. They lie, deceive, and disrespect their whole family, not just the spouse. I guess it depends on what your definition of a swinger is. It might help if we knew exactly what your perception of what a swinger is. (Please, don't use farm animals in your description, again.)

 

We as humans are judgmental. (Just as you judge us as not being, in your opinion, honest or open minded) It's a human thing we all do. We view people who have sex without their spouses knowledge as cheaters. We don't hate them, but we do hate the action of cheating. We have no interest in joining them in their deception. Am I committing adultery? Maybe in your definition, but not in mine. We are non-monogamous. We don't cheat. There are no victims in our hobby.

 

I do think cheaters are more widely accepted than swingers for reasons already mentioned.

[Big Rock 173]

BR, I am going to try to understand your first sentence is saying that cheating is an honest activity? I am not going to say that swingers are anymore open-minded than the next person, but I do feel for the most part, we are more honest. We are honest with our spouses and with those we play with. I have read many threads and profiles where people are cheating on their spouses. That in no way makes them a swinger -- just a cheater.

 

Let me try to explain. We leave no victims in our wake, which I think cheaters do. They lie, deceive, and disrespect their whole family, not just the spouse. I guess it depends on what your definition of a swinger is. It might help if we knew exactly what your perception of what a swinger is. (Please, don't use farm animals in your description, again.)

 

We as humans are judgmental. (Just as you judge us as not being, in your opinion, honest or open minded) It's a human thing we all do. We view people who have sex without their spouses knowledge as cheaters. We don't hate them, but we do hate the action of cheating. We have no interest in joining them in their deception. Am I committing adultery? Maybe in your definition, but not in mine. We are non-monogamous. We don't cheat. There are no victims in our hobby.

 

I do think cheaters are more widely accepted than swingers for reasons already mentioned.

Sorry about the farm animal thing, I was in a bad place, because of my GF's cheating, and was venting, nothing more. What I was attempting to say (my poor communication skills, not withstanding) was that cheating is not a specifically Vanilla problem. The potential for dishonesty is in all groups, no group is immune, not even swingers. And as I said, every groups definition of adultery is different. You obviously don't think you are adulterous , but others would think differently. I don't know you, personally, so I can't say. I have to disagree with you though about the acceptance of cheaters. Different people will accept/reject cheating and different people will accept/reject swinging, according to their own morality. I try not to generalize, if at all possible. That's what I meant about the "golden rule", if we (everyone) treat/respect each person as an individual, then hate and ignorance are replaced by understanding, honesty, and fellowship. To claim that one group does this or that, without allowing for diversity, is not only judgemental but ignorant. I have known honest swingers and I have know dishonest swingers, and I expect, you have too.

[Lascivious L&L 866]

I agree with Big Rock. To say that swingers are more honest than vanilla people is simply not accurate. No group has a lock on morality. We've met cheaters in swinging and cheaters in the vanilla world. Cheating can apply to more than sex, as honesty is quite a broad field.

 

Of course if you define swingers as honest, and those who are not completely honest as not being swingers, then there aren't many swingers. Honesty is far broader than sexually cheating.

 

Swinging can be one honest way of dealing with sexual desires within relationships, but it's not the only honest way of dealing with them.

[LFM2 1,482]

Sorry about the farm animal thing, I was in a bad place, because of my GF's cheating, and was venting, nothing more. What I was attempting to say ( my poor communication skills, not withstanding) was that cheating is not a specifically Vanilla problem. The potential for dishonesty is in all groups, no group is immune, not even swingers. And as I said, every groups definition of adultery is different. You obviously don't think you are adulterous , but others would think differently. I don't know you, personally, so I can't say. I have to disagree with you though about the acceptance of cheaters. Different people will accept/reject cheating and different people will accept/reject swinging, according to their own morality. I try not to generalize, if at all possible. That's what I meant about the "golden rule", if we (everyone) treat/respect each person as an individual, then hate and ignorance are replaced by understanding, honesty, and fellowship. To claim that one group does this or that, without allowing for diversity, is not only judgemental but ignorant. I have known honest swingers and I have know dishonest swingers, and I expect, you have too.

 

Thanks for the clarification! I do agree with this.

 

We've met a lot of cheaters in the swinger world.... profiles galore of married men and women looking for fun on the side. I still have a hard time calling them swingers though. They're cheaters on a swinger site. I've also seen in the vanilla world too.

 

I wish I could say that my moral compass points at true north; it doesn't and thankfully, it doesn't point south either. We're after all, only human.

 

I still think that cheating is more widely accepted than swinging though. That's an obvious observation where I live.

[Big Rock 173]

Thanks for the clarification! I do agree with this.

 

We've met a lot of cheaters in the swinger world.... profiles galore of married men and women looking for fun on the side. I still have a hard time calling them swingers though. They're cheaters on a swinger site. I've also seen in the vanilla world too.

 

I wish I could say that my moral compass points at true north; it doesn't and thankfully, it doesn't point south either. We're after all, only human.

 

I still think that cheating is more widely accepted than swinging though. That's an obvious observation where I live.

I think you may have hit on an important point, LFM2. Location seems to have a great deal to do with acceptance or rejection. I live in an area with a very high percentage of fundamentalist Christians, but also a high percentage of individualists. Swinging implies consent, whereas cheating does not. Cheating is almost universally condemned, but swinging is a more nebulous issue to these people. While they might not approve for themselves, they would be more likely to adopt a "laissez-faire?", attitude towards others, who practice it. I DO know that any condemnation would be much more likely to be directed towards the male half of the couple. The theory being that any man who allows his woman to be boffed by another man is by definition, a pathetic, unmanly creature, and would be viewed with contempt.

[nllswing 81]

Thank you all, people for the helpful responses.

 

From what I read on this topic and from what I observed so far, I think that it was a mistake to write in my ad in a nonswinger dating site that I was married and had permission. It seems to scare a lot of people away right off the bat. Maybe it is better to have it off and disclose it a bit later, after it is more clear that the other side is interested.

[intuition897 2,179]

Thank you all, people for the helpful responses.

 

From what I read on this topic and from what I observed so far, I think that it was a mistake to write in my ad in a nonswinger dating site that I was married and had permission. It seems to scare a lot of people away right off the bat. Maybe it is better to have it off and disclose it a bit later, after it is more clear that the other side is interested.

 

My mother-in-law used to live in the apartment in our place and we felt it was only fair - and wise - to let her know that we would be occasionally having...friends...over. Overnight. And that it wasn't a good idea to just pop upstairs to say hello. It took her a little while to really understand what we were saying, but once we spelled it out for her, she literally ran away. Later she asked Mr. intuition897, "Why don't you just have affairs?" Yeah. Lying to one another and denying reality...much better alternative.

[Big Rock 173]

Age and location seem to be the two most determining factors in the acceptance/rejection issue. In my parent's day, interracial relationships were the most frowned upon. Times change and so do attitudes, but we still must be careful how to approach these subjects to other people. That said, the issue of adultery/cheating seems to have stood the test of time. The bottom line is that integrity in personal relationships is the single most important factor, and causes the most adverse reactions.

[robotjfk 15]

I think cheating is accepted more because it's easier than swinging or being openly non-monogamous. To be open requires the fearlessness to be honest about what you want and a willingness to go through the myriad of issues like jealousy and ego bruising that come along with opening up.

 

Cheating requires that you just sneak off and fuck somebody.

[DigginIt 1,132]

 

Some where this topic took on a new life around honesty and judgement and a few other things.

 

People are people...very true. Cheating is in the news everyday. Just pick up the local copy of People on the way out of the store and the subject is on the cover of every issue. Who's cheated on who this week. It sells really well obviously.

 

The more something becomes a common thread of discussion it's loses it's shock value. Cheating has lost it's shock value years ago...swinging though I'm sure will be one of the next big ones as it rises in popularity.