I've been asked to give it a try

[cluelessnoob 15]

I guess what I'm looking for here is some advice. My girlfriend, of a few months now, came to me and told me that for the past few years, she's been into something similar to swinging. She either hosts or attends parties where these people get together, drink, have a good time, and eventually, everyone is having sex with someone. She told me there are a couple of guys that she's had regular encounters with, and I assume that these men would be who she'd want to engage in what she's asking. She came to me and asked me if I would allow another female to come into our sexlife on occasion, and then told me that she really wanted a MFM encounter. She had been in the situation where she was going to do it, before me, and I guess she couldn't go through with it. She says she can do it now, and wants me to be one of the men involved. I have to admit that when I was a teenager or in my early 20's, this would have been like a dream come true. I'm 31 now, and as soon as she presented this to me, I'm finding it hard to get past the jealousy I feel even by thinking about it. After a lot of thought, it would be difficult for me to have either a male or female come into our sexlife, but overall I think it'd be easier with a female. It kind of feels like with a man, my place as her man is being compromised, even if only at the time of the encounter, whereas a female doesn't make me feel threatened at all. I've explained this to her, so she told me that if we brought a female in, I wouldn't be allowed to do anything to her, which doesn't bother me really, as I'm only entertaining the idea of this for her benefit. She said that if I couldn't bring a man in, I HAD to let her have females, but I know that she would prefer the 2nd male. Basically, I guess I'm wondering if I'm wrong for feeling the way I do, as our relationship really has only just begun and now I'm being asked to share her already, albeit only physically. I understand this is something she's into, and as she explained, it's something she "can't stop doing" because conventional sex is just too boring. But I kinda feel like I'm being pressured into it, as the conversation has turned to, as I said, that she can't stop. I mean, if I agree to it, I have to learn real quick that she loves me, and not to be jealous or insecure. If I don't agree to it, and she can't stop, I'll either lose her because being with me means she can't do this, or she does it behind my back and lies to me, which I wouldn't stand for. Advice? Suggestions? I'm really interested to see if anyone else was in this situation, or something similar, and can help shed some light on how to deal with being introduced to it this way.

[Tina and Bob 236]

Well you really have three choices, don't do what she wants and she will do what she wants without you, you can try it and see if you also enjoy or you can find a new girlfriend. It is obvious that she does not want to be monogamous, so deal with that reality or move on. Good luck, Tina

[incommunicado 228]

It's always difficult when you are in love with someone to have your perception of them shattered. You love your girlfriend, and you don't want to do this, but it's been made clear, without say as much, that this is a deal breaker in your relationship.

 

If I were younger, I would tell you that "She can't stop doing it" is not true. That she's being selfish and prioritizing her desire for an open door policy over her commitment to you. That, this is one of those cases where it's not "you would if you loved me," but, "you wouldn't if you loved me." But, I'm not younger. I don't see the world as black and white as I used to. There are people who are perfectly capable of great love, but NOT sexual fidelity.

 

Recently, Dan Savage, who writes the advice column "Savage Love" covered the topic (look up "Savage Love", and "Sex Before Dawn") Where people thanked him, saying that they thought there was something wrong with them because they were capable of great love, but could not keep from stepping out on their partners. One woman said she loves her husband, but sex with others is like a safety valve for her that helps her maintain her sanity. Dan's strongest advice to people in this position was, 1) Accept that you are one of those people that can love, but cannot remain sexually faithful, and 2) Be honest with your partners. He suggested it's best to seek partners who can accept this.

 

On the surface, it may seem that your girlfriend is being selfish. Telling you that she wants a man but will settle for a woman as long as you don't touch her seems to reinforce this. But, you would be amazed by the one-sided rules that many swingers have, and this doesn't even come across as the worst I've heard. So, maybe it's not about selfishness. Maybe she has simply expressed that she is not a monogamous person, that this is something she enjoys, and she wants YOU to enjoy it with her, but she's not going to change who she is and suddenly become completely sexually faithful, even if she loves you.

 

The question is, can you handle it? You're here because you don't want to lose her. But, you don't want to do it either. And, from a swinger point of view, that's a deal breaker. One partner says no, it's no for both. The relationship is more important than the extracurricular play.

 

But, sometimes it's not that simple. Sometimes, even if we choose not to believe it, there are people who simply are not cut out for fidelity, even if they are capable of great love. And for them, there are people who either work the same way, or are very open and very accepting and can give them that freedom. You have to figure out if you are one of those people, or if you need to move on and find someone who can love only you, and wants to love only you.

 

One bit of devils advocacy... if 50-60% of all men and woman are unfaithful to their partner at some point in time in their relationship, the odds are against most of us. As tough a pill as it is to swallow, would you rather have a partner who is open about her need for non-monogamy? Or, one who, for whatever reason, years down the road, commits an indelible act that they can never take back and you can, possibly, never forgive?

 

One is the devil you know, the other is a matter of faith and trust. But, that's what relationships are supposed to be built on anyway.

 

Good luck! I hope you find what you need.

 

 

 

 

 

I guess what I'm looking for here is some advice. My girlfriend, of a few months now, came to me and told me that for the past few years, she's been into something similar to swinging. She either hosts or attends parties where these people get together, drink, have a good time, and eventually, everyone is having sex with someone. She told me there are a couple of guys that she's had regular encounters with, and I assume that these men would be who she'd want to engage in what she's asking. She came to me and asked me if I would allow another female to come into our sexlife on occasion, and then told me that she really wanted a MFM encounter. She had been in the situation where she was going to do it, before me, and I guess she couldn't go through with it. She says she can do it now, and wants me to be one of the men involved. I have to admit that when I was a teenager or in my early 20's, this would have been like a dream come true. I'm 31 now, and as soon as she presented this to me, I'm finding it hard to get past the jealousy I feel even by thinking about it. After a lot of thought, it would be difficult for me to have either a male or female come into our sexlife, but overall I think it'd be easier with a female. It kind of feels like with a man, my place as her man is being compromised, even if only at the time of the encounter, whereas a female doesn't make me feel threatened at all. I've explained this to her, so she told me that if we brought a female in, I wouldn't be allowed to do anything to her, which doesn't bother me really, as I'm only entertaining the idea of this for her benefit. She said that if I couldn't bring a man in, I HAD to let her have females, but I know that she would prefer the 2nd male. Basically, I guess I'm wondering if I'm wrong for feeling the way I do, as our relationship really has only just begun and now I'm being asked to share her already, albeit only physically. I understand this is something she's into, and as she explained, it's something she "can't stop doing" because conventional sex is just too boring. But I kinda feel like I'm being pressured into it, as the conversation has turned to, as I said, that she can't stop. I mean, if I agree to it, I have to learn real quick that she loves me, and not to be jealous or insecure. If I don't agree to it, and she can't stop, I'll either lose her because being with me means she can't do this, or she does it behind my back and lies to me, which I wouldn't stand for. Advice? Suggestions? I'm really interested to see if anyone else was in this situation, or something similar, and can help shed some light on how to deal with being introduced to it this way.

[cluelessnoob 15]

Well, there are a few more points I feel I should throw out. There has been sexual abuse in her life, which she admitted to me today, and a feeling that she doesn't deserve to be loved. She's unsure as to whether what she's doing is just for some sort of sexual gratification or not, but has stated that she feels maybe she needs help and that what she does is for the wrong reasons. The one-sided rules that she had weren't so much a basis of how she wanted things to be all the time, just how they would be if I didn't go for a MWM encounter. She's expressed many times that the encounter would go much differently if I did agree to the MWM thing. I don't really feel that it's a selfish motive driving it, and it'd be naive of me to say something like "love would make you not want to do this", as it's been said that some people just aren't cut out for sexual fidelity. But the comment of, basically, give me what I want, and you can do more. I'm not completely opposed to the idea, I just want to be able to take my time and do this at my pace, if that's where things take me. You're right, I do love her, and don't want to lose her. I just take things like her saying she can't stop, rather than she won't stop, as there being a little more to it than fulfilling some kind of sexual gratification. Maybe I'm reading too far into it, but I'm a very analytical person.

[incommunicado 228]

Well, there are a few more points I feel I should throw out. There has been sexual abuse in her life, which she admitted to me today, and a feeling that she doesn't deserve to be loved. She's unsure as to whether what she's doing is just for some sort of sexual gratification or not, but has stated that she feels maybe she needs help and that what she does is for the wrong reasons. The one-sided rules that she had weren't so much a basis of how she wanted things to be all the time, just how they would be if I didn't go for a MWM encounter. She's expressed many times that the encounter would go much differently if I did agree to the MWM thing. I don't really feel that it's a selfish motive driving it, and it'd be naive of me to say something like "love would make you not want to do this", as it's been said that some people just aren't cut out for sexual fidelity. But the comment of, basically, give me what I want, and you can do more. I'm not completely opposed to the idea, I just want to be able to take my time and do this at my pace, if that's where things take me. You're right, I do love her, and don't want to lose her. I just take things like her saying she can't stop, rather than she won't stop, as there being a little more to it than fulfilling some kind of sexual gratification. Maybe I'm reading too far into it, but I'm a very analytical person.

 

I would agree with you the approach, trying to leverage what she wants, did seem petulant. But, again, there are swingers who do this all the time. I've read of many wives who get to have bi relations or have sex with other men and all their husbands are allowed to do is watch or have sex with them. To me, that's not swinging, but it is a broad term

 

The abuse, the not believing she deserves love, and her admission she may need help, shed real light on things are indicators that she DOES need help before she can actually make a real decision about what she should do. Couples counseling may also be a good idea.

 

Good luck!

[ViSexual 1,008]

I can understand how you could feel with someone you've only recently shared love. Hey, you're still on the honeymoon of the relationship.

 

But I think I can relate to her feelings too. She, obviously, knows what she wants in a relationship and that relationship must include the excitement of non-monogamous sexual experiences. And, maybe she's wanting to clerify this before she gets more invested in the relationship.

 

If so, then she's being smart and actually doing you a favor too. I think we all have certain values or beliefs that we just don't want to compromise, even for love. And, too often, we overlook them through the eyes of love or lust. But, after the newness wears off they become glaringly obvious!

 

Good luck to you. And, I might suggest reading more of the forums here and maybe you'll get a better understanding of where she's coming from. And, in understanding, it may help you deal with your uncertainties better. Hey, you may even realize how exciting a life with this young lady, who you already love, could be?

 

You're obviously considering or you wouldn't be here. Tell her that and ask her to be patient and let you wade in at your pace. I think she'll understand that.

[ViSexual 1,008]

Oh, and another thing, Incommunicado mentioned a book. I believe the book referenced is actually, 'Sex at Dawn' (The prehistoric origins of modern sexuality) by Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jetha.

 

I strongly encourage you to get it and read it. And, if she hasn't read it, ask her to as well and then the two of you discuss it. This could help you understand her better and the two of you to discuss where your relationship is going.

 

And, btw, it's really a wonderfully researched and written book. I loved it!

[couplers 4,638]

I'm really interested to see if anyone else was in this situation, or something similar, and can help shed some light on how to deal with being introduced to it this way.

 

 

Hi, this is Petra. My situation is not the same as yours, but similar. When I broke up with my bf and moved out, we continued to see each other. Even after I started dating David, the man that would become my husband, I tried to but just could never stop seeing (i.e., having sex with) my bf. To be somewhat honest, I would mention to David that I still talked with my bf. David cut right to the chase, told me he loved me, and that it didn't matter if I was still seeing and sleeping with my bf. Such a concept was unbelievable to me. Yes, I took advantage of the freedom he offered me, but every day I know how lucky I am and try to be unselfish, caring and the best wife to the most generous husband a woman can have.

 

 

Since your gf seems to know who she is and what she wants, I suggest that you go along with her on an adventure. It's like visiting the city she wants to move to, a place she has been, but you haven't. Either you will like it or you won't.

[bbarnsworth 2,637]

I think it's great your girlfriend has been honest and forthright with her needs and desires. It certainly gives you the opportunity to make an informed choice. That's wonderful!

 

I do think that there's some issues here though; the varying rules are troubling, and her own self identification of uncertainty in all this. I guess it comes down to how focused the two of you are on the relationship with each other. I don't see the foundation needed to successfully engage in non-monogamy while maintaining the relationship. I also think a few months into the relationship is an awful short period of time to venture into non-monogamy where one or both of the partners have never been in that lifestyle before. There's a lot of work to do here, and personally I don't think it's time yet for the two of you to go down this path just yet.

[Alura 2,774]

It's often been said on this board that successful swingers must be able to separate sex from love. Since your girlfriend doesn't want you to touch another woman, it seems to me she's not been able to do that, but has no qualms about asking you to do so.

 

I think y'all have a lot of communicating to do before jumping into either a MFM or an FMF.

 

Alura

[slevin 1,374]

It's often been said on this board that successful swingers must be able to separate sex from love. Since your girlfriend doesn't want you to touch another woman, it seems to me she's not been able to do that, but has no qualms about asking you to do so.

 

I think y'all have a lot of communicating to do before jumping into either a MFM or an FMF.

 

Alura

 

It seemed to me to be more of a petty manipulation. If she can't fuck another guy, then he can't fuck another girl. Still leads me to think they need some time to figure things out as a couple. Especially if she really does have some personal issues to work through (with a professional).

[cluelessnoob 15]

Thank you all for your insight and advice, I really do appreciate it. I think my biggest concerns are the newness of this relationship, not yet having that solid trust and lack of insecurity that comes with time. I've asked that I be given time to take this slowly, at my pace, when I feel I may be ready, but what scares me in this is that from what I've gathered, it isn't a lifestyle choice that she isn't willing to wait for, but more a need that she says she may not be able to stop herself from doing, even though she's actually said that she doesn't want to do this anymore, but again, cannot stop. I've made a compromise with her, for the time being, in saying that what I want for now is a one on one relationship with her, to give me time, not only to help build our relationship, but to give this some more thought, and in that time, I'd be accepting of a female partner joining in the near future. I have alot of my own issues to work out with the other male that stem from past relationships ending because of a cheating partner who lied and tried to sneak, yet I knew what was going on. I didn't think it was too much to ask, and I did give some on what she wants, I just hope that she loves me as much as I do her, and will give me some time to make this decision. Thanks again everyone.

[Gordo 618]

Wow. Sadly I think the first advice was the best. Accept what she says and move on.

 

What she's talking about really isn't swinging, which is a joint decision about desire & activities but cheating which she's saying she can't live without. Swinging moves at the speed of the slowest participant which she seems to be prepared to ignore.

 

Kudos to her for being honest and upfront about her desires but if you don't have the same desires and fantasies I think you're headed for trouble here.

 

The only "out" here is for her to engage in counselling to see why she feels so compelled to "step out" on her relationships. And I say this because is doesn't appear to be a choice but a compelling phychological need as you've described it.

[cluelessnoob 15]

Wow. Sadly I think the first advice was the best. Accept what she says and move on.

 

What she's talking about really isn't swinging, which is a joint decision about desire & activities but cheating which she's saying she can't live without. Swinging moves at the speed of the slowest participant which she seems to be prepared to ignore.

 

Kudos to her for being honest and upfront about her desires but if you don't have the same desires and fantasies I think you're headed for trouble here.

 

The only "out" here is for her to engage in counselling to see why she feels so compelled to "step out" on her relationships. And I say this because is doesn't appear to be a choice but a compelling phychological need as you've described it.

This was a thought I had as well, as she's compared this more to an addiction than anything. I've been talking to her about it all weekend, and I've come close to both giving in and letting her go do this on her own, and going full swing back the other way and just giving up and moving on. But, I love her, and overall that's making me, more than anything, want to help her and see whether or not it's something that is a real psychological problem, and if there's help.

[slevin 1,374]

This was a thought I had as well, as she's compared this more to an addiction than anything. I've been talking to her about it all weekend, and I've come close to both giving in and letting her go do this on her own, and going full swing back the other way and just giving up and moving on. But, I love her, and overall that's making me, more than anything, want to help her and see whether or not it's something that is a real psychological problem, and if there's help.

 

You can't help her. She can only help herself, if there is a problem to be dealt with. You can support her in her persuit of counselling, you can participate and you can be there for her. You can't help her. It's a difficult thing to do, but you need to accept her for who she is and make your decisions based on that. I don't think we have anywhere close to enough information to really offer serious advice about breaking up, moving on etc.; there are just so many possibilities of what is going on here.

[cluelessnoob 15]

As it stands right now, I've got her admitting and accepting that the underlying reasons for this aren't healthy, and she says she wants to get help. You're right, I chose my words poorly, I know I can't help her. That has to come from within. I'm gonna stick with her, see her through what I can. And from that, hope that it all turns out okay.

[bbarnsworth 2,637]

Well. good progress. Obviously there's issues that have to be resolved. I wouldn't involve any non-monogamy in your relationship until things get more resolved.

[cluelessnoob 15]

Well, thanks again. I guess it isn't going to work out after all. She sees this as me trying to change her, as me getting what I want, and her being suppressed. I made it clear that the choice was hers, and but as I can't accept this part of her life, she feels that I don't accept her for who she is, despite admitting that it was a problem. I want to thank you all for taking time to read what I had to say, and giving me your advice.

[bbarnsworth 2,637]

Well, thanks again. I guess it isn't going to work out after all. She sees this as me trying to change her, as me getting what I want, and her being suppressed. I made it clear that the choice was hers, and but as I can't accept this part of her life, she feels that I don't accept her for who she is, despite admitting that it was a problem. I want to thank you all for taking time to read what I had to say, and giving me your advice.

 

Sorry that it appears it is not going to work out. I'm also sorry that there's a real underlying problem that she apparently is not going to be addressing. She'll lead an unhappy life until she does.

[Swing*8701 887]

Susan here-- I had a friend similar to this. She knew it was addictive, loved the psychological 'rush' of the sex and loved the lying she got to do too. For you, the problem is she is not the person she portrayed herself to be and that's going to take a long time for you to process. A very long time. Then, one day, you will realize that the person you cherished never really ever existed. Then, you'll start to heal all over again. Saddle up, buckaroo, the trail is longer than you think and I'm very sorry this went poorly for you.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

There are a lot of red flags here and you have every right to be concerned and to question this.

 

Your relationship is new and yes you should be focusing on each other, not bringing others into this. You said she questioned her own ability to commit and whether or not she was wanting to play with others for the right reason. It's possible that she's getting to a point with you where she feels she either has to commit or run, and this is her means of running (or pushing you away).

 

Swinging should never be about one person getting what they want and one person just giving in. It should ALWAYS be about both parties getting something they want (even if there is some level of concession by one or both partners).

 

Whether it's another male or another female, the outcome is the same for you - it's all about HER. Unless you are bi (and want to play with the other guy) then isn't it going to be exactly the same? You play with your gf and she gets to play with someone else?

 

If she's thinking she may need help (therapy) then she probably does and I wouldn't suggest you guys consider swinging until she does get that help. It sounds like she may have some serious deep sexual issues that she needs to work out on her own.

[10thBadger 25]

On 2/20/2011 at 9:30 PM, cluelessnoob said:

I guess what I'm looking for here is some advice. My girlfriend, of a few months now, came to me and told me that for the past few years, she's been into something similar to swinging. She either hosts or attends parties where these people get together, drink, have a good time, and eventually, everyone is having sex with someone. She told me there are a couple of guys that she's had regular encounters with, and I assume that these men would be who she'd want to engage in what she's asking. She came to me and asked me if I would allow another female to come into our sexlife on occasion, and then told me that she really wanted a MFM encounter. She had been in the situation where she was going to do it, before me, and I guess she couldn't go through with it. She says she can do it now, and wants me to be one of the men involved. I have to admit that when I was a teenager or in my early 20's, this would have been like a dream come true. I'm 31 now, and as soon as she presented this to me, I'm finding it hard to get past the jealousy I feel even by thinking about it. After a lot of thought, it would be difficult for me to have either a male or female come into our sexlife, but overall I think it'd be easier with a female. It kind of feels like with a man, my place as her man is being compromised, even if only at the time of the encounter, whereas a female doesn't make me feel threatened at all. I've explained this to her, so she told me that if we brought a female in, I wouldn't be allowed to do anything to her, which doesn't bother me really, as I'm only entertaining the idea of this for her benefit. She said that if I couldn't bring a man in, I HAD to let her have females, but I know that she would prefer the 2nd male. Basically, I guess I'm wondering if I'm wrong for feeling the way I do, as our relationship really has only just begun and now I'm being asked to share her already, albeit only physically. I understand this is something she's into, and as she explained, it's something she "can't stop doing" because conventional sex is just too boring. But I kinda feel like I'm being pressured into it, as the conversation has turned to, as I said, that she can't stop. I mean, if I agree to it, I have to learn real quick that she loves me, and not to be jealous or insecure. If I don't agree to it, and she can't stop, I'll either lose her because being with me means she can't do this, or she does it behind my back and lies to me, which I wouldn't stand for. Advice? Suggestions? I'm really interested to see if anyone else was in this situation, or something similar, and can help shed some light on how to deal with being introduced to it this way.

Be a man and tell her this is something that you do not want. It is obvious that you do not want this. And if she still says she wants to do this, show her the door. There is no way that you should tolerate this in the beginning of your relationship. She should have told you about this before you get serious with her. For her to spring this on you After only dating a few months was disrespectful. Because you have possibly have said to her that you did not want to date her if you would have known that she wanted to be a swinger and have other men and other women. That was a pure set up on her part.

[HerSweetness 141]

Ten years later, I’m assuming it’s been discussed. 

[oreocpl2015 22]

You are free to accept her for what she is. That does not mean that you have to be together as a couple. You can also accept the fact that you two are probably not  compatible and not on the same page on a very important matter.  Self-awareness, and knowing "when to fold 'em" is important in a relationship, and red flags and deal-breakers have to be reckoned with. This type of arrangement can work if you dial back the emotions, but only you know for yourself if you are capable of this. Best to realize what you are up against, and if you two must move on, don't hesitate to put an end to it. Life is way too short for neurosis/anxiety over such matters.