Why are singles hated so much in the LS?

[CalendarGirl 148]

Hi everyone!

 

First, let me say thank you for such a wonderful site! I have been reading all the forums for the last couple months and have found them very informative, honest and open. Those are the reasons that I am interested in the LS, moreso than even the sex.

 

I am a recently single 41 year old woman and I recently discovered a couple family members are in the LS. I noticed a change in their relationship when they became nudists. After 10 years of asking me to join them at their resort I did. All the people were WONDERFUL! I could ask them any stupid question and they would answer all of them fully, even though I had just met them. I felt more beautiful being nude at that resort than I ever have. I saw that ALL the men were COMPLETELY in love with their wives and respected all the other women as well. I never walked up a flight of stairs without a hand on my elbow and never opened a door. I thought to myself, "This is the way it's supposed to be!" I heard some comments and saw some pictures that lead me to ask my family member if they were "swingers." Sometimes I'm too honest for my own good, but my family member sat me down and gave me the "talk." He explained the LS and confirmed that yes, they were involved. Of course, I was happy for them because they were so happy and anything they were doing to be that happy I fully support! So, I wanted to find out all I could about it. That's what led me here.

 

It also led me to a question I can't seem to find the answer to. I am a hated single and can't figure out why there is such a disdain for singles in the LS. Everything I've read so far indicates that the LS is all about "play." So, assuming that's true why would a single be so threatening? The marriages in the LS are so stable what is it that is so threatening about a single? I don't think I'm a "unicorn", I've haven't had any experience with women so I don't know if I'm bi. I refrain from using words like "never" and "forever" since those concepts don't exist, but I'm not going to claim to be something I'm not, even if it's a possiblity if the circumstances are right.

 

I DO NOT want another husband/SO! I just ended the 20 year relationship and do not want to do it again. So, why would I be threatening to another's marriage. Even if the husband wanted to leave his wife for me, that's not gonna happen...because I won't let it, that will be my rule. My husband cheated on me so I'm not going to be the "other woman."

 

Also, to dispel a myth that's been going around this board, single females CAN NOT have sex anytime we want. Believe me, I'd rather be having sex right now instead of posting on this board. I'm attractive, curvy, have a great smile, fantastic personality and I'm great in bed, but I can't get sex anytime I want.

 

The LS is attractive to me because of the open, honest communication. If you can be honest about the "taboo" issue of sex then you can be honest about anything. The play interests me because I could be with others that have the same opinion about it, that it's play, nothing else. Also, being in an environment that is safe is also appealing.

 

It's obvious from reading this board that I will not be welcomed into the LS as a single. However, I have no desire for a relationship. However, I would like to know why a single female is not welcome.

 

I hope this post doesn't offend. I really do want to understand why I would be excluded, I just don't understand.

 

Thank you, in advance, for all your fantastic input!

CG

[Zoe&Wash 93]

Upper Michigan or Lower Michigan?

[CalendarGirl 148]

I'm in lower Michigan. For now anyway, I'm unemployed (duh, I live in Michigan right!) so who knows where I'll land.

 

I just noticed how long my post was, sorry, been up all night thinking about it.

 

Thanks for your patience!

[swing.kidz 367]

 

It also led me to a question I can't seem to find the answer to. I am a hated single and can't figure out why there is such a disdain for singles in the LS.

 

Hey CalendarGirl!

 

Welcome to the board!

 

In reference to your question, we don't know of anytime singles in the lifestyle are generally "hated" just because they are single. If there is any contentious attitude towards a single person specifically, we have seen it usually has to do with that specific person's behavior...like single males at a resort that congregate like vultures around a swapping couple; forcing said couple to get irate and to start issuing warnings! haha. But contextually speaking, that has to do with their conduct, not with single men generally.

 

Never have we seen nor heard of a single woman being hated in the lifestyle. I don't know what you saw or heard at the nudist club, but nudists aren't swingers...so just because they are nudists, doesn't mean spouses are OK with their SO chatting up a single coed. You'd find the converse to be true in the swinging lifestyle...usually.

[CalendarGirl 148]

Thanks Swing Kidz!

 

Yes, I know that nudists aren't necessarily swingers. that wsa part of the "talk" my family member had with me. However the group talked about orgies, DPs, going to Hedo and Desire several times, that so & so was a sensual kisser, etc. Then I asked point blank (cuz that's who I am) and they confirmed it.

 

I searched for "singles" in the forums and everything I read was that singles have "no place" in the LS. That they are nothing but drama. That most people would not play with them no matter what. Perhaps you don't feel the same way. I get what you say about singles with poor conduct. They are unwelcome ANYWHERE!

[Alura 2,774]

I, too, don't think singles are "hated." It's true that many couples eschew them, preferring the level playing field offered by couple-to-couple swinging.

 

I don't think you'll have any trouble in the lifestyle, Calendar Girl, as long as you don't pursue couples who make it clear that they only play with couples. You are, indeed, a unicorn; you'll find you're exactly what many couples seek.

 

It's entirely your decision if you never have a husband or S.O. again, but it's a pity. A loving and communicative relationship, in my opinion, is what swinging and life itself is all about.

 

Alura

[Tina and Bob 236]

Bob and I do not have any issues with singles, whether male or female, as long as they play by the rules. I really have not felt that there has been any anamascity towards singles, except for those behaving badly or being deceitful or overbearing.

[CalendarGirl 148]

Thanks for posting Alura, I had hoped you would. I have read a lot of your posts and find that you are very sensible and kind. Thank you for taking the time.

 

You remind me of a point I was mulling over last night. Why is it only a "level" playing field when it's couples? I read a lot about how couples have more to "lose" in the LS than singles. I don't understand that. Everyone seems to agree that you should only swing if your relationship is strong, which makes complete sense to me. So, if the couple's relationship is strong enough to swing with other couples why is a single a threat?

 

I've had lots of experience with discrimination in my life and I usually understand why (sexual orientation, race, sex, etc) even if I disagree. So, I just want to understand why so I can avoid any problems if I decide to venture in.

 

I guess I was too flip to say I don't want another relationship. I too long for an open, honest, loving relationship but I need to figure out what I want/need first.

 

Thanks again for the feedback!

[exploringRM 305]

I think the "single negative" people are more vocal than the "single positive" people. I see many profiles where people are only looking for singles as well as profiles that are both couples and singles friendly. So regardless of peoples opinions singles are desired and can be successful

 

I've rarely heard complaints about single women. For me the behavior of single guys we have had contact with (well them contacting us) has totally turned me off on interacting with single guys.

[Zoe&Wash 93]

I'm in lower Michigan.

 

Rats. We were hoping for a Yooper.

 

You're getting good answers from smart people, the collective IQ on this board could easily hand Watson the Computer his exhaust fan and make him cry coolant.

 

My 2¢ is that any drama you may find from couples that are unfriendly towards singles are also couples that haven't resolved their issues and are still struggling with their own boundaries.

 

W

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

We have not experienced or even seen a hint of hatred toward singles. They are always most welcome to swinger events we have been too.

 

There are,, at times, limitations on the number of singles attending events, but it is almost always for men, I have never seen it for women.

 

I have heard of some issues between nudist and swingers, mostly that some nudist have become offended when swingers make the assumption that nudist and swingers are one in the same. They are not.

 

Where I have seen the "cold shoulder" given to singles, or couples for that matter, is when they are rude or brash or act in a manner unbecoming. That is not to imply that you have behaved that way, I just want to be clear.

 

That said, people do have preferences. Some couples only want to play with other couples. Others only want to play with single females if they are bi. It is all in what a person or couple wants to explore.

 

I think what Alura means by level play field is that, in a couple on couple situation both parties get to play and have fun with the opposite sex. In FMF threesomes (I am using FMF as an example, but it would be true of MFM also) where the women are not bi the man is, by necessity, slitting his attention between two women. Some people don't like to play that way, but plenty have no problem doing so.

 

But it is also true that some couples do have problem with singles because of jealousy issues. Unfortunately not every relationship is as strong as it should be in the LS and the green monster can make a appearance. Some couples try to eliminate the temptation by only playing with other attached couples. You will find that most of us are very secure and have no worries about our relationships.

[CalendarGirl 148]

Thanks CoupleErotic!

 

Now I get the "level playing field" comment! I guess that makes sense and was something I was thinking about last night. As I mentioned, I don't "think" I'm bi just because I've never had that experience but it does seem like someone would get "left out." Thanks for clarifying!

 

Yes, my family member discussed the "nudists not necessarily being swingers" issue when we had "the talk." I don't like to assume so that's why I asked him point blank and he said yes he and his wife were and the group they hang out with at the resort are their playmates. I only related the story as a sort of introduction.

 

Perhaps the word "hate" was too strong (chalk it up to lack of sleep), I don't think anyone here truly "hates" anyone. Yes, I agree that ANYONE (single male, single female, or couple) should be summarily bounced if they are rude or disrespectful. I know that you weren't speaking of me, that's not my personality, usually I'm the life of the party (vanilla anyway) and have had some parties rescheduled to a date I could attend. I LOVE people and always honor the "platinum rule"--treat others as THEY would like to be treated.

 

Thanks for all the wonderful feedback. I'm beginning to feel a little better.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

Cool, sound like you could be the life of the party at non vanilla events too

 

I do need to add one thing. There are jerks in the lifestyle just like the vanilla world, we have met a few. SO there will be times that people just don't play well with others. Sometimes it just them, sometimes it is a clique thing, etc. When we encounter those folks, we just move and have fun with others. Their loss not ours

[bbarnsworth 2,637]

CalendarGirl, from your posts it certainly seems apparent that you are a very nice person. I seriously, seriously doubt you'd run into any difficulties of acceptance in the lifestyle.

 

With any sufficiently large group of people, there are going to be some people who are rude. It's unfortunate, but that's humanity. It happens in the swinging world just as much as outside of the swinging world. People aren't rude because they're swingers or vice versa.

 

Since you've become aware that some of your family members are swingers, it might be useful to have them sort of 'hold your hand', as it were, and introduce you to the lifestyle. They can help introduce you to couples who are looking for single women, such as yourself.

 

I'm very, very sorry that your 20+ year relationship ended in part thanks to cheating. It's really sad to hear of such things. I hope you can find what you are ultimately looking for in a long term relationship. But, it certainly makes sense for you to spend some time figuring out what you want and need.

 

My wife and I have both noted that swinging can make a lot of sense for single people who just don't want a long term relationship for whatever reason. We're still sexual creatures, and to deny that is hard at times. We've entertained a number of single men. We're open to single women as well (though my wife is not bi in any respect), but single women are rare in the lifestyle so we don't expect it to happen. We're not threatened in any respect by a single person. Our relationship is by far the deepest either of us have ever had, and the idea that someone could take away from that is laughable silly to us. So, even if a single guy tried to take her, or a single woman tried to take me, it wouldn't happen. Our main concerns about singles have nothing to do with whether they would attempt to take either of us.

 

I am also sorry to hear you've suffered discrimination many times in your life. It's despicable. We don't tolerate it. Neither should you, and if a potential play partner does anything in that direction, drop them like a stone and move on. You don't have to accept it to get what you want in the lifestyle.

 

You've received a lot of excellent advice from the people responding to this forum. Please know you're in great company here, and you're always welcome!

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I searched for "singles" in the forums and everything I read was that singles have "no place" in the LS. That they are nothing but drama. That most people would not play with them no matter what. Perhaps you don't feel the same way. I get what you say about singles with poor conduct. They are unwelcome ANYWHERE!

 

My guess is that most of what you've read has been/was directed towards single males. Unfortunately, a lot of bad apples have given the whole barrel a bad flavor. Since single males are much more plentiful, there's a lot more posts relating to single males. Since single females are so rare (and some believe they don't really exist) some people will just use the "single" term as a generic when mentally they are really only thinking about single males.

 

I've NEVER heard anyone hate on single females.

 

As far your comment that you can't get sex any time you want... yes you can, you just gotta go make it happen and you have to be willing to take risks to do it. Walk into any bar or club (vanilla or swinger) and be forward and you'll get sex. It may not happen with the first person/couple you come onto but you'll get it before the night is over. (The truth is that this is true for most guys too, they'll just get shot down more than a female will).

 

You remind me of a point I was mulling over last night. Why is it only a "level" playing field when it's couples? I read a lot about how couples have more to "lose" in the LS than singles. I don't understand that. Everyone seems to agree that you should only swing if your relationship is strong, which makes complete sense to me. So, if the couple's relationship is strong enough to swing with other couples why is a single a threat?

 

 

No matter how strong a couple's relationship is there is always a risk when playing with a single. Couples have each other to lose, and while they may trust each other 100% they don't know that third party as well and therefore can't trust them the same way. Granted we don't know another couple as well as we know each other too, but they have the same "thing" to lose that we do (each other). As a single, you really have nothing to lose and unfortunately even though a single may not want a relationship they probably do want attention and sometimes the degree to which they will go to get that attention can create issues for the couple.

 

Also, as a single it's more acceptable for you to be out playing around, while if it got out that we were doing it as a couple, it's not nearly as acceptable to society in general. So we have our entire livelihoods to lose outside of our own relationships. When someone hears about a single having sex with a couple no one thinks twice about it, or at least they don't really think much more about it than they would hearing that that single had sex with anyone.. it's typically only the couple that looks bad.

 

All that said... now some reasons why some may not be comfortable with single females. Guys, in general, are better at separating sex and emotions. With that knowledge some couples may not want to risk playing with a single female and her developing an emotional attachment.

 

If she's straight (not wanting to play with females) there are more issues.

1. Most swinger females are bi (or at least bi-curious) so if they include a straight single female then it's all about the guy (which isn't a bad thing, but the female half of the couple may feel left out or like she's not getting anything).

2. With #1 in play, most swinger couples who are looking for a single female are looking for one who is willing to play with both halves of the couple.

3. If the single female is straight, a couple might feel there is more of a risk of her developing an emotional attachment for the guy.

 

(All of the above are also issues that many people have with playing with single males).

 

Some couples don't play with singles at all, they just feel more comfortable with the idea of everyone being on a level playing field (as has been suggested) and knowing that everyone can get the type of play they want (there are more possibilities available with 4 people playing than just with 3).

[slevin 1,374]

Another thing to be aware of is that couples who swing are not necessarily all in the strong relationships that are evangelized by most here. Couples who swing are nothing more than a cross section of society. There are couples with issues, couples on the brink of breaking up and couples who fit that "strong relationship" mantra. You'll run into lots of different types of people, just like you would anywhere. As VegasLee likes to say people who swing are different minded, not open minded.

 

At the club here we have seen couples openly shun anyone who is single. It is interesting to see them shun someone when they think they are single, only to embrace them weeks later when they discover they are actually part of a couple. This happens far more often with single men though. Most single women are sought after and most couples will over look all kinds of things for the chance of being with a single girl.

[CalendarGirl 148]

"Since single females are so rare (and some believe they don't really exist) some people will just use the "single" term as a generic when mentally they are really only thinking about single males."

 

Julie, I think you may be right. I've gotten several PMs that say just that.

 

As far your comment that you can't get sex any time you want... yes you can, you just gotta go make it happen and you have to be willing to take risks to do it.

 

I go to vanilla clubs every Saturday and have yet to go home with anyone. Perhaps I don't know what I'm doing or missing the signals. I've never been picked up by a man before, never even had one send me a drink like they do in the movies. I'm constantly told how attractive I am. Some of my "friends" tell me they never would have known I was such a great lover or so open before they got to know me. Maybe I'm putting out the wrong signals. However, most of my single female friends agree with me on this point.

 

"Also, as a single it's more acceptable for you to be out playing around, while if it got out that we were doing it as a couple, it's not nearly as acceptable to society in general."

 

Yes, that I understand. This has come up at the nudist resort with my aunt and uncle as well. Apparently some people risk their jobs just by going nude in their free time. This just makes me FURIOUS, but I've been known to be a "champion" for others which gets me into fights that aren't my own.

 

Thanks so much for your feedback! I'm beginning to understand that maybe I would be welcomed at my local club.

[CalendarGirl 148]

Another thing to be aware of is that couples who swing are not necessarily all in the strong relationships that are evangelized by most here.

 

Yes, I'm sure it's pretty much the same in the "vanilla" world! I often bragged that I knew my husband loved me above all and would never cheat on me. Well, I never use the word "never" anymore, because I was wrong. Still, I like the open and honest communication present in LS couples and fantasize about having that someday...with my own SO, not someone elses, I know how that feels!

 

At the club here we have seen couples openly shun anyone who is single. It is interesting to see them shun someone when they think they are single, only to embrace them weeks later when they discover they are actually part of a couple.

 

This is one of the reasons I've been reluctant to go to the club nearby. I've toyed with the idea of bringing one of my "friends" with me, so I would be a part of a "couple" and to have someone to watch my back. However, that seems deceitful to me and don't feel comfortable with it.

 

It looks like there is some hope though after reading all these wonderful posts.

 

Thanks to you all!!

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

It would be fine to go with a friend if you are simply honest when you introduce him. You will see all different types of couples.

 

The other night I asked a girl at the club, "Which one's your husband?" (gesturing to a group of guys). She said, "He's in New Jersey, that's my boyfriend." He is married too. So, you will find all types of open relationships. No one will mind if you are there with a friend, just so you introduce them as such and let them know you are single.

 

Have fun!

[bbarnsworth 2,637]

This is one of the reasons I've been reluctant to go to the club nearby. I've toyed with the idea of bringing one of my "friends" with me, so I would be a part of a "couple" and to have someone to watch my back. However, that seems deceitful to me and don't feel comfortable with it.

 

Just wanted to add on here that at any decent lifestyle club, there's going to be people there either employed by the club or volunteering to help who will ask a disruptive person to leave, and force them to do so if necessary. So the staff of the club 'have your back' too.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I go to vanilla clubs every Saturday and have yet to go home with anyone. Perhaps I don't know what I'm doing or missing the signals. I've never been picked up by a man before, never even had one send me a drink like they do in the movies. I'm constantly told how attractive I am. Some of my "friends" tell me they never would have known I was such a great lover or so open before they got to know me. Maybe I'm putting out the wrong signals. However, most of my single female friends agree with me on this point.

 

 

There's the problem... you are waiting for them to do the picking up. If you wait around for others to make things happen, it never will. You can't wait for opportunity to knock, sometimes you just gotta open the door and flag it down

[CalendarGirl 148]

Just wanted to add on here that at any decent lifestyle club, there's going to be people there either employed by the club or volunteering to help who will ask a disruptive person to leave, and force them to do so if necessary. So the staff of the club 'have your back' too.

 

Good to know BB! As much as I'd like to believe that I can take care of myself (raised by a women's libber after all!) I know that I have to be careful in some situations. That's why I decided to go to the nudist resort with my aunt and uncle, even though most people couldn't believe I would be comfortable being there with people I knew much less were related to. I just shrugged and told them I was happy for my aunt after seeing my uncle's package!! I noticed there was security there as well and one F/F couple was asked to leave after dry-humping on the dance floor. However I do arm myself (not just with condoms) when I go out alone or invite a new man home. Better safe than sorry!

[CalendarGirl 148]

There's the problem... you are waiting for them to do the picking up. If you wait around for others to make things happen, it never will. You can't wait for opportunity to knock, sometimes you just gotta open the door and flag it down

 

You are probably right Julie. I think I put it out there, I flirt, touch, dance, etc but I don't come right out with it. :flashing:I probably just need to get over the years of rejection in my marriage. A "friend" of mine offered to play a stranger at the bar for me so I could practice. It seems silly, but maybe I should try it.

 

Thanks for the encouragement!

[Alura 2,774]

Thanks for posting Alura, I had hoped you would. I have read a lot of your posts and find that you are very sensible and kind. Thank you for taking the time.

 

What a nice thing to say, Calendar Girl! Thank you!

 

You remind me of a point I was mulling over last night. Why is it only a "level" playing field when it's couples? I read a lot about how couples have more to "lose" in the LS than singles. I don't understand that. Everyone seems to agree that you should only swing if your relationship is strong, which makes complete sense to me. So, if the couple's relationship is strong enough to swing with other couples why is a single a threat?

 

Good question! I think, whether we admit it or not, we each have a tiny fear of losing our most beloved person to someone else. That's one of the aspects of swinging, I suppose, that makes it so exciting. Laura once said to me, "I can't imagine a woman having sex with you and NOT wanting to spend the rest of her life with you." I felt the same way about her.

 

Still, Laura and I were pretty sure of each other, so that was of minimum importance to us. I think the "If I can't have you, nobody can!!!" concern, no matter how minor, probably deterred us more from singles. You never know who's gonna go nuts. Of course, we never had anything that serious to contend with. The worst were some guys who didn't want to take "No!" for an answer, but who needs such hassles? Married guys are usually easy to get rid of, "Shall I call your wife about this visit?"

 

I've had lots of experience with discrimination in my life and I usually understand why (sexual orientation, race, sex, etc) even if I disagree. So, I just want to understand why so I can avoid any problems if I decide to venture in.

 

I doubt you understand things any better after reading this; in fact, neither do I.

 

I guess I was too flip to say I don't want another relationship. I too long for an open, honest, loving relationship but I need to figure out what I want/need first.

 

It took Laura to show me... Maybe you'll be as lucky. I hope so, in many ways you're a man's fondest dream.

 

Alura

[SW_PA_Couple 4,024]

Hate is a very strong word. I will suggest "suspicions".

 

Always dangerous to make wide, sweeping generalizations like "singles are this" or "singles don't fit into that." Experiences on the World Wide Web would make it easy to form general conclusions. Ninty-nine percent of on-line enquiries from single men are offensive or idiodic in some sense or another. Single women seem to never to approach using the Internet. But the real world is different. My wife and I have met at face-to-face social occasions the most wonderful people who just happen to be "single".

 

~Michael

[sexcupid 809]

You are probably right Julie. I think I put it out there, I flirt, touch, dance, etc but I don't come right out with it. :flashing:I probably just need to get over the years of rejection in my marriage. A "friend" of mine offered to play a stranger at the bar for me so I could practice. It seems silly, but maybe I should try it.

 

Thanks for the encouragement!

 

In direct response to this...do you go out with friends and mingle or are you going by yourself? Perhaps having a friend observe what you are normally doing (not just being the target to practice on) and seeing how you interact with actual strangers would be beneficial.

 

You may think you are putting it out there...but it may be perceived as just being a friendly girl at the club that likes to dance or oh she's touchy feely after a couple of drinks. Plus you may just have a particular lucky streak of dealing with gentlemen who really do need to know what level of interest you have. If you are interested, say so. 'so what are you doing after you leave here/with the rest of your night? i'm interested in getting to know you a little better...' then elaborate from there. (idk, just a suggestion )...yes there may be some rejections along the way, and it does suck putting yourself out there to potentially be rejected. It does sound like you have occasionally been successful and that is good

 

As for the overall gist of the thread, single females are not generally hated, they are usually sought after as previously mentioned. What would you be looking for in a swing situation? Do you want to join other couples? Do you think you would have an easier time finding a single male to play with (vs the vanilla scene)? For us (and others we know), not being bi or having minimal interactions between the women is not a deal breaker...but that is primarily b/c my belief is that a FMF should focus on the guy, what can we team up to do to rock his socks off? Not all people think that way or desire that...but really as the potential 3rd to join a couple, that is that is what you are interested in, you also need to think of what you desire and find playmates that mesh with those things.

 

Welcome to the board!

[TheSwingerSet 205]

We don't "hate" anyone we are a little more wary of swingle males, just from past experences but we have never had an issue with a swingle female, and for awhile our friends were calling us unicorn magnets.

 

Since you don't know if you are bi or not that is going to limit your acceptance somewhat, as most couples who are looking for a swingle female are looking to both be involved with you, however their are couples like us who just enjoy shareing company with women bi or not.

The biggest issue we have had with swingles in general is the endless e-mails to set up a time and place to meet, this goes for both male and female.

 

 

Our best encounter with a single female, was a total of 3 e-mails each and 1 phone conversation, all to express intrest and set up a meeting place and time.

[ViSexual 1,008]

CalendarGirl, I think you hit it right on the head about swinging and nudism. It's not as much the sexual gratification as it is the honesty. There are far too few places a person in today's America can be so totally open and honest as these lifestyles.

 

You'll be welcome in either lifestyle and, as you must know by now, you're certainly more than welcomed here!

 

You're a valuable addition to this board!

[Chicup 41]

We won't play with single males and would have to know a single female pretty well to play.

 

Why?

 

Because of drama potential and our desire to just avoid it as much as possible.

 

Single males problems are legion and no need to go over them here again. I firmly believe that many are single because no woman would have them due to personality issues. This brings the whole "good single males are hard to find" into light because they quite frankly are rare as unicorns in some ways.

 

Single females are more wanted but no less prone to personality issues, drama, and other factors which make them less desirable to us. Due to supply and once you eliminate the crazy ones, that leaves 'true' unicorns even rarer and often fleeting in the lifestyle. Not many sane and attractive women wish to remain completely unattached for long periods of time. Most are transient in the lifestyle, often due to recent divorce or the like and once they get it out of their system they are no longer single.

 

Its hard enough finding sane couples, I think the lifestyle in general attracts a its share of a negative element in terms of failing marriages, addictions, and a good dose of Peter Pan syndrome.

 

This may sound completely negative and in some ways it is but it is part of the lifestyle. Its not all roses, its not always good and sometimes seems more trouble than its worth. When it works it works brilliantly, but I believe one should always be aware of the negatives.

[good times 991]

Some great comments and thoughts here, I can only add a couple.

 

I don't believe singles in the lifestyle are hated, but, at least in our case, they are just not needed. We are both straight, so except for a few limited activities, one of us would be the third wheel, or be left out if we played with a single. I would even go as far as saying that if someone were to observe us at a club they would say we shun the singles. That isn't because we don't like them, we just aren't interested in playing with singles, for various reasons, and don't want to lead anybody on that we aren't interested in. One thing I have noticed often is that single females are just as likely to get the wrong idea if you are friendly with them as single males are. So, generally, we will be friendly if approached by a single, but we make it clear right away that we are not interested.

 

That said, it isn't like it was in the old days any more, when single females were extremely rare to find. Now days it would be unusual to go to the club on any given night and not see at least one single female there. In fact, last Saturday when we went to the club their were three in attendance out of about fifty people total. I didn't really pay that much attention, but I know at least one of those was successful at hooking up with a couple for sex. Keep in mind though, that if you have no success at a regular night club hooking up, you are not likely to have much better success at the swingers club. If you go expecting folks to bombard you with offers, you may leave very disappointed, especially if you are not pursuing same sex activities. As others have indicated most couples are looking for bi-females if they are interested in single females at all. On the other hand, If you find a club that allows single males you can always hook up with one of them. Keep in mind though, that the club rules for single males are often strict enough that you will need to be the instigator in the encounter.

 

Finally, the biggest mistake I often see with single females is that they, like a lot of single males unfamiliar with the lifestyle, think that if they go to a swingers club people will be falling over each other to get them in the sack. That is just not the case, my observation has been that most singles have no better luck, or maybe even slightly less luck hooking up for sex than couples do. In my opinion, it is much easier for a single female to hook up with someone in a regular vanilla night club than it is at a swingers club. But, then again, it depends on the night you go, both types of clubs depend a lot on that right person being there at the same time you are.

[MN Tom 251]

Yeah, Im guessing that if you are seeing people mentioning dislike for singles in the lifestyle, it's usually based towards the males.

 

The only times ive seen single females bashed to some degree is when they think they are royalty and deserve everything for free and that it's all about them.

 

We have met and played with several single females (actually more than single males when we think of it) and to be honest they are just normal people like everyone else. Almost all that we have met are divorced and just not ready for a relationship again, they just want someone to play with, not date at this time.

 

 

Like others have said, the thing about being a single in this environment is reading the clues or just going outright and asking if you are tired of guessing. It's the same for all of us, it's not like we as a couple show up and have 10 other couples offering to hit the sack with us. We have to mingle, get to know people, see who we can match up with.

 

Ive heard from single gals that they get the "evil eye" from some wives, and if that is the case, just steer away from those ones. My wife has gotten the evil eye before, even with me already touching the other wife.. Happens. Just move on.

 

Keep in mind that some couples wont walk up to singles and start up the conversation. They figure any hot single gal is already booked up 10x over, so they dont bother. Couple figure that about other couples too.

[newchick 15]

 

This is one of the reasons I've been reluctant to go to the club nearby. I've toyed with the idea of bringing one of my "friends" with me, so I would be a part of a "couple" and to have someone to watch my back. However, that seems deceitful to me and don't feel comfortable with it.

 

It looks like there is some hope though after reading all these wonderful posts.

 

Thanks to you all!!

 

If you don't mind another newbie chiming in here.....I guess I'm considered one of the elusive "unicorns," lol. I went to a club for the first time with a platonic male friend, I actually called the club earlier in the day to make sure there were no issues with us attending the club together although we were going as a single female and single male - I wanted to be sure there was no confusion or that we'd be perceived as trying to be deceptive in any way. Also, as we met people throughout the evening, we made it clear to everyone that we were not a couple. Everyone was very receptive, very friendly, and we had no issues. In fact, it was such a great experience and environment that I would go back alone.

 

As for waiting for someone to pick you up - as someone said earlier (and I apologize for not quoting), you can't wait for opportunity to knock....you could be waiting forever! I'm not a hot young thing - I have a few extra pounds on me, but I'm easy on the eyes and embrace and have confidence in my sexuality and I think it comes through to others. Don't fear rejection, everyone has been rejected at one time or another....you are the prize, remember that. If you put yourself out there and are rejected, it's their loss. Kind of like buses - if one passes you by, there's another on the way.

 

Thanks for starting this thread, it gave me perspectives that I hadn't previously considered as a single female.

[TheSwingerSet 205]

Keep in mind that some couples wont walk up to singles and start up the conversation. They figure any hot single gal is already booked up 10x over, so they don't bother. Couple figure that about other couples too.

 

This is exactly why we are more successful with single females than most others we know. We have figured out that by approaching them the only thing we have to lose is a little time.

 

K

[cocpl2007 170]

I, too, don't think singles are "hated." It's true that many couples eschew them, preferring the level playing field offered by couple-to-couple swinging.

 

I don't think you'll have any trouble in the lifestyle, Calendar Girl, as long as you don't pursue couples who make it clear that they only play with couples. You are, indeed, a unicorn; you'll find you're exactly what many couples seek.

 

It's entirely your decision if you never have a husband or S.O. again, but it's a pity. A loving and communicative relationship, in my opinion, is what swinging and life itself is all about.

 

Alura

 

We are right there with you, Alura

[merced209guy 15]

Could be us single ones play by or have different rules than say married or a couple.... not always but we single are more open to who ever when ever, now theres exceptions that sum couples will do the same but i think in large single can do what and when they want vs a couple has to have the other one there or not play alone due to their own rules which is fine but creates a sense of "not liking" the singles jus saying

[GodlyVikingD 15]

As a single, young(24) male, I can honestly most singles aren't hated, but we are treated much more cautiously. We have to take the time to get to know the couple, unless they're just looking to score some for the wife/husband, and establish a report with them. That's something that's been lost for awhile in this country, sad to say.

 

Get to know them, understand that you won't be sexing them the first night or first month or whenever till they are comfortable with you.

 

That's my experience, anyway. Of course, being a single woman is much easier in this lifestyle than being a single male.

[sweet_tna 680]

I don't see singles as hated in the lifestyle. But like every other walk of life, there are differences of opinion regarding how others fit into a certain pocket of life. Some folks don't believe that singles can be swingers, as there isn't an exchange (since they don't have a spouse to swap with).

 

Others have been burned by a bad experience and are wary. Quite often, there are singles who no-show for dates, or are pushy or rude. Unfortunately, a few bad apples can spoil the bunch. Thankfully, we haven't had that experience.

 

T

You remind me of a point I was mulling over last night. Why is it on "level" playing field when it's couples? I read a lot about how couples have more to "lose" in the LS than singles. I don't understand that. Everyone seems to agree that you should only swing if your relationship is strong, which makes complete sense to me. So, if the couple's relationship is strong enough to swing with other couples why is a single a threat?

 

You bring up a good point, and the only answer I can give is the obvious one: Even if a couple thinks they have a solid relationship, there can still be trouble if one of them falls for/cheats with a single playmate. And it does happen.

 

But there are those of us who do "get it" and don't have an issue with singles. Hang in there, and you'll find others who do.

 

=)

[wife4females 23]

I am not aware of anyone "hating" single women in the lifestyle. There are lots of couples (like my husband and I) that are interested in couples as well as single females for only female play or both male and female play. I have heard a ton of couples (including my husband and I) that "hate" the single Male approach...as someone else stated, they act like vultures around couples and it's very irritating! So if you are a single female that plays by the "rules" as agreed upon you should not have any problems making friends with couples in the LS.

 

Good Luck to you!

[curiousman77 15]

Hello Everyone,

 

I just wanted to say how appreciative I am of all I've read tonight on the board. What you write and ask about has far greater depth and feeling and sensitivity that I was aware would be here and I am humbled. Please understand what I mean: when I looked up swinger sites and information, I had a shallow perspective about just the sex, and especially the advertisements for the swinger sites with all the pictures of people going at it, plays into the ideas/fantasies about just sex.

 

I've read a number of threads tonight about singles and about what both couples and singles are looking for in the LS, and they include, to a great extent, the issues of trust, honesty, openness, respect, and sensitivity. This is SO different than just the images of people having sex. This is humanity and it is more appealing to me than just the sex. It means people can get on the board and share their real feelings and experiences and ideas AND that others actually and honestly respond! I am grateful, and even comforted, to find real human beings here, not just sexual creatures (though we are that, too, just not only that!) I have learned and felt so much just from the reading. Thank you!

 

There is more to learn and I am open to it in a new way now, feeling that sex is treated here in different ways, to some as a fun way to just enjoy the pleasure, and to others as a way of expressing love and kindness amidst the joy of realizing a fantasy, and making each other happier this way. Reading about how for the single man it is a privilege to be invited into the couples world of making a fantasy come true hits home/heart in a new way, as do many other readings.

 

Thank you to those who suggested reading the board because it is a deep and honest field of learning and growth, that has me re-evaluating why I came here and why I would want to stay.

 

It is also so refreshing to be able to talk about sex and relationships in such an open, respectful, and accepting forum, which I wish society at large would be able to do. It would make so many things easier.

 

I welcome any comments....