She was a swinger unicorn

[misterlove3000 15]

I met a girl two months ago on a dating site and it has been going really well between us. I'm 30, she's 27. We now see each other very often and I'm developing very intense early feelings for her, however; she dropped a bomb on me the other day. I'm not sure how it came up, but I asked if she ever had a threesome. She said" well, actually, I used to go to a swingers club and I've had threesome's, foursome's, and moresomes." She said she was referred to as a "unicorn" because she was a single female at a swinger club and she got involved through a swinger couple that she befriended after a random wild night. I couldn't believe what i was hearing, that is not my lifestyle at all, I've had sex with about 20 people. That is also why, for the most part, I have sought out women with similar sexual pasts as my own, a fairly experienced past. I have also been invited to threesomes and group sex, but it's just not for me.

 

I want to be mature, and i like her, but being hard to digest, I had a lot of questions. A second conversation revealed that she did this about 2 and 1/2 years ago for three months mainly on weekends and she had been involved mostly with two couples at a time. She said there was one experience with three couples, but the most men she slept with in a night was two, not at the same time. In total, she said she has been with 15 partners in her life, give or take a couple, although she doesn't count the female partners. She gave one woman oral in that time and she said she was bicurious but not now bisexual. She "got it out of her system," she said, and is interested in being with one person, me.

 

Am I crazy to think that someone with this sort of past is capable of long-term monogamy now? I feel like she started fudging numbers and facts based on my open yet surprised and concerned response. Everyone tells white lies about sexual partners. The numbers aren't going to make or break the relationship. It could be 150 and I would be alright with it. But certain sexual activity that really goes beyond the norm I think might change the game. That dishonesty is not malicious, if her idea of what constitutes as sex does not apply to female partners, then how many partners have been left out because of her loose definition of WHAT constitutes AS a sexual partner?

 

This is not about a number and getting over the past. This is a question of character. She was a swinger in that she pursued this activity at swinging clubs and parties with couples. I believe in monogamy and this behavior complicates my trust of her boundaries, and maybe even her respect for relationships. Even if a man allowed his wife to me for a night, I wouldn't take it, because I simply don't believe that it has no negative impact on that relationship, regardless of their "open-mindedness." And if it exists the couples that would have no issue, then I feel there is a fundamental difference in values concerning monogamy. Although engaging with couples seems the best way to get nsa sex, I worry that there might be this difference in value which I think might also give us different definitions of monogamy and relationships. I don't think that this is something you can always lay down with conversation.

 

This also raises concerns for me about her ability to be sexually satisfied by one person...at a time. I want to be her stallion but I only have one cock, and it's not a python. And I don't have breasts, a vagina, and eight hands. Will I never be able to share with her, her most intense sexual moments? I think I understand, it's erotic to fantasize being so submissive that your mouth is full and you're being penetrated and you're being rubbed. It's exhibitionism too. I understand the fantasy, but now that it's not a fantasy anymore, will she ever enjoy one on one sex quite as much?

 

So please respond to either of the issues, do you think there is a fundamental difference in values concerning relationships, sex and monogamy?

and can someone with not just a promiscuous past, but one of group sex be satisfied with a single sexual partner?

 

 

Thank you, Mister

[Learning 160]

Mister, a ton of people will chime in here, so I'm just going to answer what strikes me about your post. It sounds like you have a very honest girlfriend. She could of hid it from you but she didn't. If she wanted more than you, she would have said so already. It is possible to leave the lifestyle and be satisfied with one. As you will see here, there's more to swinging than just sex. If you truly like her and want to see her in your life it's okay to tell her that swinging is not part of your plan with her and if she desires that it's okay to end things. In a way, your post reminded me of the movie "Clerks" by Kevin Smith. The main character was caught on how many partners his girlfriend had been with. All that matters is that you both are honest with each other. It sounds like she has moved on and wants a vanilla relationship. Just communicate with her, like you did here. That's one good thing about the majority of swingers is our higher level of communication. Good luck and keep the board posted!

[SoFlaCp 85]

Well, there is no way anyone can answer any of your questions. Even you probably need time to figure out what you think...but sounds like you are speculating and setting conditions very early - not really healthy IMHO.

 

Consider that she has been honest with you and you have strong feelings, apparently reciprocated. If that is not adequate, then suggest you do both of yourselves a a favor and stay friends. Swingers are just people, in many cases very secure people. We live and feel as deeply as anyone else - maybe more. We don't grade people based on sexual potential and swinging is one aspect of our lives. Don't feel threatened and give it a chance. If you keep thinking like you've outlined above...then you may miss out on a great chance. Who knows what the future may bring...

[slevin 1,374]

A couple of things:

 

• Judging her based on being open (and however open minded you think you were being I bet she picked up on the judgment) will not promte open communication. Without feeling like you CAN be open, it will never happen.
   
  
• If she says that her swinging experiences were over 2 years ago, what makes you think that she didn't decide she wants monogamy after those experiences? A few months out of a lifetime have you questioning her respect for monogamy?
   
  
• You need to decide not whether she is going to be monogamous, but whether you are able to handle her past or not. Based on your post the stumbling block will be whether her past is going to always knaw at you or not. Only you can answer that.
  

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

MisterLove3000, you appear to have a Hollywood tainted perspective of what swinging is really all about. Most swingers are regular people, with caring relationships. Not the seedy stereotype that Hollywood likes to portray.

 

First, honesty is a critical issue for most swingers. Your girlfriend has been honest, good for her. However, your reaction may well impact how open she stays. If she thinks you can't handle it, she may just bury it. It is best, actually a must, for relationships to be open and honest. Try not to judge her, listen to what she says and share your feelings calmly and you will be well on your way to they type relationship most people aspire to.

 

Second, monogamy comes in the sexual kind, and the emotional kind. While swingers have non-monogamous sexual relationships they are almost always monogamous emotionally. That may sound strange and even unbelievable to you, but it is true. Most of us were sexually monogamous for years before getting into the lifestyle and most of us could return there if we so choose. Your girl friend has stated she wants monogamy, and the fact she was a swinger for a very short period of time is, in and of itself, no reason to disbelieve her.

 

Being a swinger does not turn a person into some kind of sex monster that can't have what most of world calls a "normal" sex life. She just experienced a few things than most will not. As for being satisfied with one partner, being a swinger does not mean one partner cannot satisfy their sexual needs. People swing for many reasons, but I assure you our partners absolutely can and do satisfy our desire and vice versa.

 

A few months of swinging is little more than an experiment, don't let wreck a good thing. But even if she had been a swinger for 5 years, it really doesn't matter. She was playing the field as a single person, she now has found the one person she wants to settle down with, be grateful it is you and move on.

[sexcupid 809]

Are you saying you have never participated, but were invited to join in a threesome or more? Why is what she did really any different than what you have done. If you want to get into a numbers game, even including my LS experiences, I have had sex with less than 20 partners and that is including women if they were present.

 

Obviously this is something she felt she should put out there early on...maybe she thought you were interested in pursuing group sex if you asked about threesomes...I don't know of many guys I've gone out with in the past that ever asked me about that. I would think they were fishing to see if I was game to try it, more specifically to try it with them.

 

Only you can decide if this is a deal breaker for you. You want someone who has sexual experience, does it particularly matter where/how they got it?

 

I do think that someone can be satisfied with one partner even if they have had group sex in the past. Why don't you ask her the questions you've asked here? What did she like about it, why didn't she continue doing it, tell her some of your concerns...you say you were open but suprised, she may be thinkin 'holy crap I just scared him off' or 'oh great, he's going to get all judgmental on me now'.

[misterlove3000 15]

Are you saying you have never participated, but were invited to join in a threesome or more? Why is what she did really any different than what you have done. If you want to get into a numbers game, even including my LS experiences, I have had sex with less than 20 partners and that is including women if they were present.

 

Yes, I'm saying I have had the opportunity for threesomes and more and I passed it up because it made me uncomfortable. It's not so much the amount of partners as much as the amount of partners at the same time or night. And the quantity of partners in a short period. She wasn't part of a couple experimenting together, she was the free radical single woman involved with three couples at the same time. What happens when you cross that line from fantasy to reality? I'm not sure why it bothers me so much, but it seems to me that it could represent possible self esteem issues. I appreciate the forum I'm in, I mean no disrespect, I'm just trying to understand a woman that could put herself in this situation. She has a regular sex life with a few partners through relationships, and then BAM, three months of alcohol induced party sex with total strangers, and it's out of her system? The replies have been very helpful, Thanks.

[sexcupid 809]

Thank you for clarifying OP. There are plenty of single females here that post, so hopefully they will chime in.

 

Again, pulling from my own experiences...even as a single female (not in the lifestyle) there were times I had the opportunity to have sex with more than one guy in a day...I had a few 'regular' playmates between relationships or in that murky area where you are just beginning to see someone and no exclusivity boundaries have been discussed. And I took those opportunities because sometimes between work and school and family/friends, those opportunities didn't come along often.

 

You seriously need to talk to your lady friend...are you characterizing her LS experience as "alcohol fueled party sex" or are those her words? Has she said with what frequency she participated in these activities? Yes, 3 months on weekends...but every weekend? If she was involved with only 3 couples in that time, it sounds like she was selective in deciding who she would meet and play with (regardless of how many were present at a given time). It seems like you insinuating that she was in a drunken stupor for the entirely of those 3 months and wasn't making sound rational decisions about what she was doing...logistically speaking, that doesn't seem feasible because I'm sure she had to do grownup things like hold down a job during that three month time span.

 

Are you saying that sex is only okay in the context of a relationship? Were you dating all of the women that you have had sex with and what were the duration of those relationships? Ever have a one night stand or friends with benefits arrangement?

 

If 'party sex' or 'swinger' porn is your only point of reference, then please keep poking around the forums to educate yourself here...most people have difficulty finding/choosing partners, and I did say most...some will drop trou with any willing partner, but I know lots of non-LS people that will too so life takes all kinds.

[slevin 1,374]

I'm not sure why it bothers me so much, but it seems to me that it could represent possible self esteem issues.

 

It is also possible that it represents high self esteem.

[misterlove3000 15]

Thank you for clarifying OP. There are plenty of single females here that post, so hopefully they will chime in.

 

are you characterizing her LS experience as "alcohol fueled party sex" or are those her words? Has she said with what frequency she participated in these activities? Yes, 3 months on weekends...but every weekend?

 

Are you saying that sex is only okay in the context of a relationship? Were you dating all of the women that you have had sex with and what were the duration of those relationships? Ever have a one night stand or friends with benefits arrangement?

 

I spoke to her and asked her why she was interested and started. She said the first night she got involved with a couple. After that she went to the parties with this couple. She engaged in intercourse with 10+ partners in that 3 month period almost every weekend. the most people at once was with three couples. She said this was very much a party scene, and there was always alcohol involved, and she just wanted to go a little crazy, she had never done that before. She said she never really identified as part of the lifestyle, just having a good time.

 

I think sex is ok without a relationship, but I suppose I do think that because of it's emotional repercussions, that it should be taken with caution. I have mostly had relationships, and most of the women I slept with could have gone that way, a few were fleeting nights, i didn't enjoy those as much.

 

I love sex, and find it to be an important part of any relationship, but I worry that sex might be too important as an indulgence to someone who so loosely engaged in it just so recently. I'm not sure I want to be with someone that can separate animalistic pleasure from emotion in sex. If it's that casual, I think the odds of future unhappiness with the relationship are greater when sex drive weakens and there is less of it. Also, having such a binge for 3 months seems strangely volatile to me. What do you think?

[SoFlaCp 85]

I think you have answered your own questions and have decided you cannot trust when you do not understand. Suggest you be honest and talk with her - but from what I read you are not comfortable going forward.

[TheSwingerSet 205]

I think that you are over analyzing this. If you like her personalty, you find her attractive, the sex is good or great. Then just let it be what it is.

 

I find that she is willing to open up and share her past with you very refreshing, it shows a level of trust that most new relationships do not have. If at this point she is so willing to be honest with you, just think of the future. You both will be able to share everything, which in turn will only make your relationship that much better. There are so many couples out there that are afraid to share their innermost feelings, and have to spend thousands on professional help just to keep their relationship on track, or they just break up due to not being able to be open with each other.

 

Mrs. swingerset and I have been married for 21 years, we were both quite promiscuous before we got married, and we started out as fuck buddies. We took a short monogamous break before getting back into swinging. We have also taken breaks from swinging to have kids and deal with other life issues.

 

The moral here is that we can leave swinging at any time we choose with no regrets, we just have chosen to continue with the lifestyle because we love the freedom and people.

 

K

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

Swinging is not for everyone, and it sounds like it is clearly something you can not wrap your brain around. That is not a knock, it is different from what most people are raised with. People make moral judgments all the time, and that is up to each of us as individuals. But, you seem to have bought into the notion that if people have different, more liberal, sexual desires than yourself then something must be wrong them, there must be a root cause for their deviant behavior. That can sometimes be the case, but not always. Or is it that you are making a moral judgment of her and trying to find a way to reconcile her behavior as a psychological problem in order to feel better about it.

 

Take yourself for example, you are 30, unmarried and have had approximately 20 sexual partners. For those that believe in abstinence until marriage and sexual monogamy, and a single life partner, your actions would be deviant or immoral. Do you feel like a deviant or immoral? Do you have low self esteem? I am guessing your answer is no. Would someone with a far more conservative view of sex think you are deviant and have low self esteem? Possibly, maybe even probably.

 

Why did you have sex with those other women? I assume because you enjoy sex, please correct me if I am wrong. So why is it so difficult to allow for the fact that your GF may have just been trying something she thought she might enjoy?

 

People tend to take their boundaries and call that the "norm." Your boundaries are far broader than some, and far narrower than some. What if you met a woman that you fell head over heels for but she just could not reconcile the fact that she was a virgin and you have a score of sexual partners. She might have issues with it based on her morals. She might even try to assuage those doubts by acribing your behavior as some psychological problem.

 

If your GF was going out getting plastered and finding herself in situations she later regretted, then you may be correct and she should seek some counseling. However, if she went into it with an open mind, understood what she was doing and wanted to experience it, then she is not unlike you, having sex for the simple pleasure of having sex.

 

I have read a number of psychologist that seem unable to grasp that people have what they term as "normal" sexual relationship for many reasons other than psychological problems. Don't fall into that trap. Talk to your GF and find out what makes her tick.

 

The questions you are asking are all about sex. But the real question is if you can trust her. The same thing every person has to learn about potential mates. I think she did an admirable job of opening up to you, she could have easily left her past buried, but chose to put her trust in you that you would understand and not over react. That shows a level of communication that some people take years to develop, I know because I am one of them. Be happy that you have found a woman that is open to talk to you about anything and trust you enough to tell he deepest secrets. You are a lucky guy.

[Alura 2,774]

I'm not sure I want to be with someone that can separate animalistic pleasure from emotion in sex. What do you think?

 

Let's just ignore the "animalistic" modifier. The second most important ability in swinging (after communication, of course), is the ability to separate "sex-for-pleasure" from "making love." They are two very different things. It seems your love interest can do this. If you can't learn to do so, I fear your relationship is not likely to last long, whether or not y'all remain monogamous.

 

I, too, worry that you've distanced yourself from her by your judgemental reaction to her total honesty and trust in you. There is much more danger to your relationship caused by that than her past might entail. I think your communication was damaged by your reaction. It must be repaired before the relationship can evolve into what you hope for.

 

Sigh... I've typed the following more times than I can count on this board. I hope long-time board members will once again forgive me the repetition...

 

When my late wife and I first met we agreed to never become angry at any question that was asked and to always answer it as completely as possible, no matter how long it took to reach understanding of each other. "I don't want to talk about it!" was never acceptable. I suggest you and your friend consider such an understanding. It worked well for us for almost thirty years, both in and out of swinging, in health as well as sickness.

 

Alura

[TheSwingerSet 205]

Sigh... I've typed the following more times than I can count on this board. I hope long-time board members will once again forgive me the repetition...

 

When my late wife and I first met we agreed to never become angry at any question that was asked and to always answer it as completely as possible, no matter how long it took to reach understanding of each other. "I don't want to talk about it!" was never acceptable. I suggest you and your friend consider such an understanding. It worked well for us for almost thirty years, both in and out of swinging, in health as well as sickness.

 

Alura

 

Alura, you can repeat this as many times as you wish! I think that it is some of the best advice ever given here and bears repeating over and over.

[lotsoffun201 175]

Here is my take on the situation....

 

Props to your lady for her honesty. She waas upfront about it. It is likely it would have come out later so it was better for her to let you know initially. Actually that is what the lifestyle is all about. HONESTY.....which she absolutely was and is an important quality in a partner for without it there is nothing.

 

I agree with a previous poster in that I think you are overanalyzing this and succumbing to what might be your own insecurities (so sorry to have to say that). Most all of us have some type of sordid past and we choose to either dwell on it, or go forward. If you really like this gal, see where it goes, and get past it. Keep thinking about her honesty and how difficult it is to find someone like that. If you can't get past it then it might be time to move on before you find yourself in too deep.

 

I seriously doubt she said to you "either we swing or else I'm done" Perhaps she wants you as much or more than you want her. A little time will tell.

[Alura 2,774]

Alura, you can repeat this as many times as you wish! I think that it is some of the best advice ever given here and bears repeating over and over.

 

Thank you, TheSwingerSet! That agreement made a bid difference in my whole life, not just my marriage. It eventually included our two sons, who never were afraid to ask questions of either Laura or myself.

 

Alura

[padoc 1,703]

You seem a bit judgmental. She was open and honest with you and you owe that to her in return. Frankly, I think your doubts as expressed will haunt and will eventually ruin your relationship with the unicorn. On the other hand, if you can find a way to open your mind and remember that her past included nights that were "just sex", perhaps you might find that it was not so horrifying after all. Don't knock it till you've tried it.......at least twice!

[misterlove3000 15]

You guys are all great, I know that this is sounding a bit judgemental, so I appreciate your understanding. I want to come to terms with it, but I find it to be quite a turn off for me, and I don't know why, it's possible it's insecurity, and it's possible it's some bizarre form of jealousy. She has expressed to me that it was a temporary interest but she doesn't want to bring it back. I think I would almost feel better if after saying she enjoyed it, that she say she would enjoy it again, and gave me the option of experiencing that with her, even if I wasn't interested. I mean, she seemed to really enjoy it, and that might be where the issues lye, that she left something that she clearly enjoyed, yet came to a rational decision to move on from something that was very sensational, maybe even a little irrational. It's like being in a relationship that was great and so different and peculiar that future relationships couldn't compare, and then after a while, the chances are much greater that with the opportunity, they will return. After doing all this research about it and hearing your responses, I must say I'm a bit curious. But I suppose for me it is disappointing that I can't share sexually, what might be the most exciting sexual experience of my partners life. I understand that this might come off as contradictory, but I wish I had crossed the line and experienced this when I could have so as not to continue the myth. Someone said I can't get over it because I can't understand it, I agree. Maybe it is the case that it's important to have shared similar sexual backgrounds for a successful LTR.

Thank you , Mister

[slevin 1,374]

You need to have that open and honest conversation with her Tell her what you said there, bare your soul.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I don't think you are ready to be in this relationship with her, I don't think you can handle the emotional honesty and maturity that she has.

 

You question whether or not someone with a swinger past can be honest and can be in a secure monogamous relationship. Yes, they can if they choose to be. I've been swinging off an on for (geez) 15 years. And there were times where I stopped completely because I was in a relationship that swinging was not a part of. If she cares about you then yes she can "turn it off". It sounds like it's been a while since swinging has been a part of her life anyway.

 

As others said, the fact that she told you at all says a lot for her. She could have not told you anything. Had you had this conversation with me when I was single, I would not have been able to give you a number and I would have honestly told you so.

 

There is a common bit of advice that goes something like this - "Don't ask a question if you aren't prepared for the answer". The old question of "how many partners have you had?" is not one that should be asked. If you are asking it, chances are you are not ready for the answer. If you are asking a question like that then you want the answer to be none or one or something "acceptable". Swinging is not something "acceptable" to most and it automatically has made you question her integrity. Then you came to the Swingers Board and asked if you should trust her? By questioning her integrity, you automatically question all of our integrity, so why do you even care what we think? You don't find swingers to be honest upright people to begin with.

 

At this point, you don't trust her. Move on, let her go find someone who doesn't question her integrity just because she has enjoyed others in her past.

[funinnhtoo 15]

My wife and I have no idea how many partners the other had before we were a couple. Why? Because the question was never asked. Why? Because it doesn't matter and it is none of our business! We are very honest and upfront people and would tell each other ANYTHING if there was a need to know or were simply to ask. We know how many partners each has had since we were a couple because we were both present.

 

Swinging is very different from emotional sex and not that hard to separate. There is sex for pure recreation and sex for love.

 

"There was always alcohol involved" and "alcohol fueled sex party" have two very different connotations. There is usually alcohol involved when my wife and I swing. The most we have ever had was two drinks apiece all evening and sometimes we have none. "Alcohol fueled sex party" implies a bunch of drunks doing things that they will not remember in the morning. So, which was it?

 

It sounds like you have deep seated doubts that will always eat at you and in time ruin what could have been a wonderful relationship. You have a picture in your head as to what is enough experience and what is too much. She seems to have too much. Cut her loose before you both get hurt and go find yourself someone else with "a fairly experienced past." (but apparently not too experienced!)

[couplers 4,649]

My wife and I have no idea how many partners the other had before we were a couple. Why? Because the question was never asked. Why? Because it doesn't matter and it is none of our business! We are very honest and upfront people and would tell each other ANYTHING if there was a need to know or were simply to ask.

 

 

Petra here again with a different take. True, there is no need to know, but I want to know and do ask. Why? Because I find it sexually exciting for hubby to tell me about the women in the past that he enjoyed, I like to learn from that what he likes and out perform his memories. It especially makes me feel lucky and so special that of those women I was the one he chose to marry.

 

 

But that is only my perspective. Hubby is like you two - he will listen attentively and comment understandingly about whatever I want to talk about. He never inquires on his own.

[lizandtom 512]

Misterlove3000, you have heard throughout this threat that emotion and sex can be separated. Before throwing in the towel as others have suggested (possibly a moot point at this stage), you have to realize, and it's hard having not been of the lifestyle mindset, that your SO enjoyed sex with others years passed, but perhaps (and she alluded to this) with you she has the only emotional attachment. The most potent sexual pleasure occurs in the mind where chemical reactions take place, so from that standpoint perhaps you give her the most powerful sexual experiences and that is why she wants to be with you.

 

Just a short true take on this; the woman of a couple we're sexual with (her husband has a 10" tool, whereas I'm avg. 6") has had dozens of play partners through the years. I am the only one (of men & women) who has given her an orgasm, and it sure isn't because of my length, it's because of my attentiveness, and reading her body language and putting her needs before mine, and that's what gets her off.

 

The point is, no matter what sexual animalism took place with others, you may be the sole person to satisfy her emotionally when combined with sex.

 

Think about it before putting the big "A" on her back.

[MsGoneWild 182]

It is also possible that it represents high self esteem.

 

I know my self esteem got a whole lot higher after I started swinging..