Wife having moral issues

[mrandmrs247 48]

Well first off I'll tell you a little about ourselves. We have been married 12 yrs together 15 and have, what I consider, a very strong loving committed relationship.

 

For the past couple of years or so we have talked/fantasied about swinging up to the point where we both agreed to attend an on premise club which we had planned for the end of this month. My wife had been excited but very nervous about this, as you would expect. We had set our boundaries that we wouldn't swap but have fun with each other etc. As far as I was concerned we had communicated well and I was very honest with her.

 

Now last Friday night after too much wine (imo) she bought the subject up and asked about the cost of the club etc at which I explained that we pay a fee for the night and if we wished to return we would pay the difference for the membership fee, now this is where her real concerns came out! She said that she was worried where this would lead as she had in her head it would be a 'one off' at which point I said "well if we have fun and enjoyed ourselves we could return". She then said that she was worried that if we made this a regular thing that we would end up swapping, to which I said we will only do what both of us are happy with. Well that's when things took a turn for the worst.

 

She admitted to me that she was scared that she would be the one that would push the boundaries, as she's a very sexual woman and would really enjoy male attention, and knowing that I have fantasies of seeing her with another man, may do something she would regret! She said that if that happened it would 'spoil' our marriage and after I said that I would be there and would stop her doing something she said that I might not because of my fantasy. She also said that if anything happened she wouldn't feel 'precious' to me anymore and became very emotional.

 

I reassured her, told her how much I loved her, how she would always be 'precious' to me and said that we won't go to the club as I didn't think the timing was right.

 

I feel like 2 years of talking and this never came up until we 'booked' the date was wasted; however I'm glad it did before we ventured any further.

 

What can I do now? As I personally see this as she's having moral issues and is concerned about her own self control.

 

Should we just give up on the idea?

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

It is coming out now because you are getting closer to your fantasy becoming a reality. Fantasy has a way of being nice and neat without all the mess to worry about. To use a poor analogy, it is like making sausage, it is easier to enjoy when you don't think about everything that goes into the process.

 

Being concerned and worried is normal, it is a big step. It sounds like she has some trust issues. She does not trust herself to stay within boundaries. Not just ones the two of you define, but the ones she has in her head, which could be much more narrowly defined. She does not trust that you will help her if she strays. She does not trust that you will not feel the same about her afterwards and possibly how she would feel about you. I have seen people get upset with their spouse for not stopping them from doing something they have both agreed to, it is a set up for failure. You also need to be introspective and analyze if you have given her any reason, no matter how small, to be concerned with your reaction.

 

You say you have talked for 2 years, but about what? Has it just been about fantasy of the deal or have you gotten down into the nuts an bolts of what could happen, the repercussions, your relationship etc. You really need to be on super solid ground on this before going forward. Getting to real and complete honesty is a very tough.

 

I would probably put the club on back burner for now. It will, most likely, be there later on, or some club some where will be. But if you do go, stay strictly within the rules, and help each other do so, watch each others back. And I would go with no further plans beyond talking about it.

 

You guys should communicate more and then do it some more. You say you have been honest with her, but it sounds like she is holding back and not letting you know what is on her mind. Neither of you need to hold back anything.

 

She sounds as if she might be worried that she thinks she really may get into swinging from a physical stand point and be worried how you will react, not how you say you will react, to her going all out. Or that she will feel less about herself for doing it. You need to explore this in depth.

 

At the end of the day swinging is an incredible fantasy and that may be your limit. The reality of swinging is not for everyone. And it is certainly not worth sacrificing or damaging your marriage. It should bring you closer and strengthen you marriage, if it does not, then keep it as a fantasy. Regardless of where you end up, there is no rush to get there, take your time and do it right, which may mean not doing it at all.

[mrandmrs247 48]

Yes what you say makes a lot of sense.

 

She must have trust issues. I wish I had foreseen this so that I could have reassured her that I would 'watch her back'.

 

It now makes me wonder what is really going on in her head. Maybe she wants to swap but can't bring the subject up with me for fear of how I may react, and also that I may think bad of her?

 

When I said talking about it for 2yrs I really mean talking nuts and bolts, including how this would affect our relationship. My wife was the person to bring the subject of swinging up. She talks about it more than me but it was myself that suggested visiting a swingers club. We've always stuck to the principle that we wouldn't swap, but this was my sayso and she agreed. It's only until now that she's revealed her concerns about her own self control. I wish she was totally honest and upfront with me straight off the bat so that we could have discussed this possibility instead of hitting me out of the blue!

 

I personally find the idea of her with another man very arousing, which she knows, the reality may be another story. I've said to her that if another man flirts etc with her at a club and I was not comfortable with it then I would say so and we would not pursue this.

[Dont.Stop 339]

She sounds impatient.

She sounds like she believes she is more into swinging than you are.

It sounds like the night is going to end in frustration for at least one of you.

 

She may be of the belief that "If I can't dance, I don't want to hear the music playing." And inside she wants to let down her hair and dance the night away. There is nothing wrong with her feeling that way... congratulations, you have a woman who is interested in the LS. Quite often guys are trying to convince their wives to jump in.

 

You are standing at opposite ends of the swimming pool. She's on the diving board, you're on the steps. If you're getting into the water you have to get in on the same side. You're at a huge disconnect here and have to rectify it before you can proceed.

 

The rule is the couple moves at the slower pace. She has to understand this.

 

Both of you have veto power. There can be no hard feelings when one of you use it. She has to understand this.

She might be totally into the moment when you pull the plug. She has to understand this.

 

The part about feeling precious is also pretty valid. It takes an amazing amount of trust to do this. You have to trust that your SO can take on another sexual partner and come back to you. Your SO has to trust that when they come back you will accept them 100%. For us new in the lifestyle it is both exciting and scary (it also leads to the most A-M-A-Z-I-N-G sex with your SO after the encounter as you both want to reclaim what is yours).

 

As far as boundaries, you must set them and stick to them for the night, then reevaluate them later when you have time to be rational. She need not push them and fear damaging the relationship. And of course, swapping can be just foreplay. She doesn't sound like she's emotionally ready for full swap. And there's nothing wrong with that.

 

Tread carefully. As much as we love to see more people embrace the LS, no one wants to see it at the expense of a loving marriage. This comes easier for some couples than others, but the only couple you need to be concerned with is you.

[mrandmrs247 48]

Impatient...hmm.

I don't know as if it wasn't for me suggesting visiting a club then we would still be talking about it as I don't believe she would have bought up a club. I suggested it because she asked how would we get in touch with swingers other than the internet ofc.

 

But yeah I agree that she is probably into the lifestyle more than she's letting on or realizes.

 

I just believe that she's not telling me the whole story, but she's the type of woman that if I asked point blank what she really wanted she wouldn't tell me because she battles with her morals and upbringing, which is a shame because if she could control these more she would be so much more contented with herself. It's only when she feels relaxed and she's in control can she truly open up.

 

Regarding the 'precious' statement. Yes maybe she needs telling that I wouldn't love her any less if something did happen, which is totally true.

 

I just realized the Friday night in question was the day before her period. Now I understand why she became so tearful, as she always does.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

mrandmrs247 said:

Yes what you say makes a lot of sense.

 

She must have trust issues. I wish I had foreseen this so that I could have reassured her that I would 'watch her back'.

 

It now makes me wonder what is really going on in her head. Maybe she wants to swap but can't bring the subject up with me for fear of how I may react, and also that I may think bad of her?
 

I personally find the idea of her with another man very arousing, which she knows, the reality may be another story. I've said to her that if another man flirts etc with her at a club and I was not comfortable with it then I would say so and we would not pursue this.

 

Be careful how much you surmise about what she is thinking. You need to communicate, listen, talk. Only she knows what she is thinking, so listen to what she is saying, let her put what she thinking out. Listening is they key.

 

Also, in your last paragraph, she may be more curious about swinging because she thinks that is what you want, what she needs to do to keep/make you happy. It is not uncommon for people to do things to make their spouse happy out of fear of loosing them or the spark, even when that thing is not something they truly desire. Again, listening is critical .

[slevin 1,374]

She sounds impatient.

She sounds like she believes she is more into swinging than you are.

It sounds like the night is going to end in frustration for at least one of you.

 

I don't think this sounds like what is going on. Just based on the little bit of info shared so far, it sounds like she is worried about 'who she will be' after they get into it. If she is sexual and enjoys what is happening, then in her head how can she be the devoted wife, mother, homemaker etc. How can she be the madonna anymore once she lets herself go to those sexual desires. Many people struggle with those sorts of things and it's a very personal dilemma that most folks can't even recognize in themselves. There are also repercussions for how she thinks you will see her after that. If she sees herself differently, then you will too (in her mind).

 

I don't have an easy answer for this. My wife has struggled with it and my approach has always been to support her, let her know that people can wear multiple hats (be a great wife, a career woman, mother, sexual being) and that just because she does something one time, or when she is in the mood, it doesn't define who she is as a person. Me saying it doesn't matter though, if she doesn't believe it.

 

Keep talking, keep being there for her and switch gears from trying to make it happen, to trying to understand and grow together.

[TheSwingerSet 205]

Some thing that might make her more comfortable is going to an social or off-premises event, where no sex happens. Maybe just being in the atmosphere with other swingers will allow her to come out of her shell and confront her feelings in a safer (no chance of sex) venue. If she doesn't have to worry about losing control of her self because nothing can happen might be the ticket.

 

On a side note, does she come to this board and read the posts? If she hasn't maybe it's time she does. There is a ton of info here for her to read and that may also help her deal with her demons.

[mrandmrs247 48]

No she doesn't come here, I will suggest it to her.

The off premise club would be a good idea; however where I live they are few and far between.

I've asked her on many occasions if she wanted to visit a club and not just for me so to speak, she's always said that it's what she wants to do.

As regards her willing to get intimate with another man just to please me I don't know, but I know her and she likes male attention. She's the type that is quite spontaneous and has done things without thinking them through in the past. I think this is what worries her.

 

I agree Slevin. She is the type that would be worried at who she may become after going down this road.

 

I just think that once I get her to be totally honest with me then we can address these issues.

 

Thank you for all this very helpful advice btw

[ViSexual 1,008]

I agree with going to something more restrained at first. Maybe the two of you could find one of the 'meet and greets' that are introductory events. That way there would only be couples that are new as well and nothing is allowed to happen.

 

And, don't even mention that it might not be a one-time experiment. I think you're mentioning that the entry fee could be applied to life-time memberships frightened her. And, she does sound very frightened of herself!

[Learning 160]

I'm just throwing this out too as previously suggested. Maybe you both should go and watch only. Say it and mean it too. I know everyone had their different swinging styles but we were so cautious with getting involved. We went to a local house party and just observed. We were upfront with people that we were new and just observing/deciding if we wanted to get into the lifestyle. So I wonder if this coukd be an experiment...go observe and if you want to have sex with each other you can do it there. Otherwise, just get your feet wet, chat it up with others(be honest about your situation if approached) and all should make you comfy.

[mrandmrs247 48]

Yeah Learning thats exactly what we both agreed to do but do the hot tub and and maybe play a little with each other. I was happy to do this as was she.

[weloveeachother 29]

mrandmrs247 said:

Yeah Learning that's exactly what we both agreed to do but do the hot tub and and maybe play a little with each other. I was happy to do this as was she.

 

This is exactly what we decided to do. We have only been to one club so far and it was on-premise. We decided on that based on recommendations/advice from others. As well as reviews on the club. We are both so glad that we did!

 

My wife too struggles with the LS. One of her main concerns is diseases. She is scared to death at the thought of waking up with an STD because we decided to have a little fun with somebody that wasn't honest about being DF. She also thinks it will cause us problems and that I, and/or possibly either of us, like something more about the person we play with and it hurts or destroys our marriage. It doesn't matter how many times I tell her that that cannot and will not happen, if it isn't right in her head.

 

Anyway, back to the club. We talked for several weeks leading up to club night. We promised each other that if either of us were uncomfortable that we would leave, no questions asked, and there would be no hard feelings. We even came up with some key words in case either of us were needing to get out of a situation. We never needed that. We went in with no intentions other than to just check it out. We had an awesome time. Met and talked with some couples but we were very upfront and let them know that we were new and were just checking it out. Nobody was pushy or seemed put off that we weren't playing. In fact, we ended up doing a lot of dirty dancing and then ended up in a semi-private room, just the two of us. Eventually we ended up in a large group room with several other couples and threesomes that were having sex. We stayed in our space and had a great time watching and playing with each other.

 

We both agree that we will be doing that again. My wife is still not interested in swapping and that's just fine with me.

[interested-05 135]

just give it time, there is no need to rush , take everything one step at a time. maybe just mee and greet other cples who are testing the waters w/o planning a play date until she feels better about it. let her meet other couples who have been through the fears and adjustments. eventually it all becomes easier.

[JsWife 49]

I don't think this sounds like what is going on. Just based on the little bit of info shared so far, it sounds like she is worried about 'who she will be' after they get into it. If she is sexual and enjoys what is happening, then in her head how can she be the devoted wife, mother, homemaker etc. How can she be the madonna anymore once she lets herself go to those sexual desires. Many people struggle with those sorts of things and it's a very personal dilemma that most folks can't even recognize in themselves. There are also repercussions for how she thinks you will see her after that. If she sees herself differently, then you will too (in her mind).

 

I don't have an easy answer for this. My wife has struggled with it and my approach has always been to support her, let her know that people can wear multiple hats (be a great wife, a career woman, mother, sexual being) and that just because she does something one time, or when she is in the mood, it doesn't define who she is as a person. Me saying it doesn't matter though, if she doesn't believe it.

 

Keep talking, keep being there for her and switch gears from trying to make it happen, to trying to understand and grow together.

 

Hubby and I are new in the LS, and although I was the one to suggest it and we communicated thoroughly and openly, I still dealt with these issues that Slevin refers to. Hubby supported me and encouraged me; telling me he didn't see me or anything we were doing as "bad". But in the beginning, I had a very difficult time dealing with "what does this make me?" afterwards due to my ingrain upbringing, moral issues, and religious convictions. It took A LOT more talking between us afterwards because of my confusion of enjoying it so much and the whole guilt/shame aspects for enjoying it. Like others have said here, the line between fantasy and reality is definitely one that needs to be well looked at before AND after delving in the LS...even if only visiting a club for the first time. There is no point where communication should stop and it should open even more-so after you get your toes wet.

 

If your wife decides to come here to the board, I will be happy to talk to her from a woman's perspective and help if I can. Good luck to you both!

[mrandmrs247 48]

Thx JsWife. I plan to have a good chat on Friday with her. Hopefully we'll get to the main issues she's struggling with and with all this advice I'll be able to handle it far better.

I'll post the results

Ty everyone.

[Powerglide 235]

Just floating an idea: what your wife might be afraid of is her own desires.

[mrandmrs247 48]

She is afraid. We've had lengthy conversations recently and she's admitted to being concerned that she may well do something she would later regret. I can't expand too much atm but will reply soon.

[Powerglide 235]

Most of us have been raised to think that our sexual desires are shameful, so what your wife is going through is nothing unique at all. Hope she can find a way to get over that. It's very liberating.

[mrandmrs247 48]

We've had a lot of conversations in the last few weeks, it's all been very good and has imo bought us closer.

 

Now I think we've got to the bottom of her issues.

 

She's concerned that she would 'break our rules' of not getting physical with another guy, because the idea gets her excited and she can be quite impulsive. She also knows that I find this a turn on. I am not at all jealous, which all makes her believe I would not intervene.

 

She also says that if the female of the couple takes an interest with me she wouldn't be able to cope with the jealousy issue. This seems to be the root of the problem imo.

 

To summarize: she would like to take things further with another guy knowing that she has my support, but is scared of doing so because in her mind it would give me license to with the female of the couple, which will make her jealous and insecure.

 

I've talked to her about jealousy and how nothing good can come of it. How it's just an emotion that feeds on insecurities and the fear of losing a loved one to another. I've reassured her hundreds of times that I love her and would never want anyone but her, but I think with her it's more of a 'what if she's better looking, nicer body etc thing, which I don't know how to respond to.

 

I think that now I know it's a jealousy issue with her then at least we have something to work on, as I think this is the only thing holding us back as this moment.

 

She still wants to go to a club and admitted that she was disappointed that I cancelled, but I think I made the right decision. I've agreed to book us another night but I still have reservations after what she's told me.

 

How do reassure her that I will not do anything to make her jealous? Also does she want her cake and eat it?

 

Tbh I would rather her come totally clean and admit her desires. If she said ' i want to fuck another man but you can't fuck another woman then I would know where I stand.

[Alura 2,774]

I think y'all will find that the jealousy will become a lesser issue as the two of you develop better communication. Once you've raised that to a level where either of you can ask the other any question without fear of reprisal, jealousy will not be an issue because there will be no fear of loss.

 

Remember, too, that sex can be done for many reasons. Love, fun, and power, to name three. Learning to differentiate between the three is key. Swinging is purely for the second, never the first, and rarely (hopefully!) for the third.

 

The best of luck to y'all! Please stay with us, and ask your wife to post her own thoughts in this thread, as well.

[xxxboxy 139]

She's basically telling you that she'd like to fuck another man but doesn't want you to fuck another woman. I'm continually amazed at how many reports of this there is on this board. I find it kinda sad...

[mrandmrs247 48]

Hi. Been a while but things have really progressed in the last few months.

 

Our communication has now got to the point of total honesty, which has had a huge positive impact on our already great relationship.

We've both openly admitted that we both want to fuck others and talked about jealousy, contraception and the risks of STDs. She has now said that she wants to visit an on premises club, which we have both chosen, and due to go next month.

 

All this talking and openness has made our sex life rocket! Even if after our visit we decide that it's not for us, all this communication has had such a positive effect on us both!

[Valha 18]

Hi, Mr. V here. I consider us very new to this even though we have had a couple of awesome experiences. Therefore I'll refrain from giving advice but just share with you how Mrs. V and I approched our first club experience.

 

Our first visit to a club (was an on-premise club) we had set some simple rules in place.

 

1. At any time either of us was uncomfortable and wanted to leave, we were out of there.

2. We would only play with each other and be up front about that with the other party goers early in any conversation.

 

For us, this policy worked wonders as #1 never came up at all, and #2 had a lot to do with it because neither of us felt any pressure whatsoever. Also, stating to the other party goers early on in a conversation let them know we weren't going to play with them and allowed us to just take in the whole experience of what the club was like, how all this worked, and just allowed us to have an amazingly fun night out together. Afterwards, we had LOTS of interesting things to talk about, too. It helped us tremendously.

 

We also felt comfortable enough to play together while others watched- it was HOT!

 

I guess the point is, set some very simple boundaries that will allow you both to be comfortable and stick to them.

 

I'm curious, have you discussed any more about how she will enjoy or be jealous about watching you with another woman? I think it's important that you have discussed this.

[mrandmrs247 48]

Yeah. we've discussed boundaries and jealousy.

 

It's pretty much like how you've said, no playing, leave when either of us say etc. We're going to take it slow, one step at time, so we can get used to each other being around the opposite sex. This we think will help us overcome any jealousy issues.

[Guest sandraandalex]

We had a couple of ideas that went with our first Club experience: First, no crime no foul no matter what happened. If someone got 'carried away' and broke a rule or three, they would not be held accountable, it simply would be something that 'happened'. Also, one night would not change nor determine who we are. If the next day we had regrets, those were fine to have, yet they would not be carried past that day, It worked for us and made the entire experience more comfortable.

[mrandmrs247 48]

Thanks for that comment. It has some very good advice.

[Valha 18]

For us, that's pretty much how our second club experience went, except we still had two set in stone non-negotiable rules:

#1: same as above, if either wanted to, we would both stop & leave together

#2: condoms for intercourse

 

We were very happy that #1 only came about mutually after lots of #2 had us worn out!