What to say back when people tell you you're wrong for swinging

[wanttoplay 15]

Hi All:

Still haven't had our first swing yet but have told a few people we trust that we've decided to experience swinging.

 

What do you do when people say things like:

 

"Oh that's just disgusting and wrong!"

 

"Why get married if you're going to fuck other people?"

 

"You ought to be ashamed of yourself!"

 

"Married people shouldn't fuck other people"

 

"You're weird"

 

Any suggestions as to what I can say??

[bbarnsworth 2,640]

Hi All:

Still haven't had our first swing yet but have told a few people we trust that we've decided to experience swinging.

 

We've told only one friend, and that because he was exploring physical non-monogamy and we felt we could be a more effective sounding board for his thoughts if he knew. Anyone else, we just felt there was no real possible benefit from telling them.

 

What do you do when people say things like:

 

"Oh that's just disgusting and wrong!"

 

• Define 'wrong'. Why should your sense of right/wrong apply to me, or vice versa?
  
• If everybody is aware of and approves of what is happening, where is the victim? What wrong is being committed?
  
• Many cultures have accepted and even encouraged non-monogamy.
  
• (if they start citing the Bible) Did you know that multiple sex partners was routine stuff in the Bible and such people were held in high regard, and not 'wrong'?
  
• Have you ever shared your deepest fantasies with your spouse? Why not?
  
• Do you masturbate in private, and never in front of your spouse? Why?
  
• What's your kink? Do you have sex in anything other than missionary position, in the dark? In some churches, if you did you would be called disgusting and wrong. Do you share oral sex with your spouse? In many churches that's considered disgusting and wrong. How happy would you be if I called you disgusting and wrong because you (female) wear sexy lingerie for your husband or you (male) like other sex positions? Your moral code isn't as black and white as you think it is.
  

 

"Why get married if you're going to fuck other people?"

 

• So the reason to get married is to fuck?
  
• We're not dating or attempting to build an emotional relationship.
  

 

"You ought to be ashamed of yourself!"

 

• Have you considered adoption instead of having your own biological kids? No? You ought to be ashamed of yourself! Do you recycle? No? You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Do you feed non-organic foods to your kids? Yes? You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Do you judge people? You've judged us. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Do you think it's right that other people should feel ashamed because they are not living up to your moral code?
  
• I'm not ashamed. In fact, very much the opposite in that we've evolved our relationship in a way that has yielded many positive benefits without causing harm to anyone.
  
• If I excitedly told you about a new program you could attend that improved marriage relationships for 70% of couples who attended, would you investigate it with an open mind or run away from it and think you should be ashamed to consider it?
  

 

"Married people shouldn't fuck other people"

 

• Quite right. That's why more than 85% of mammals are not monogamous. All part of God's plan.
  
• But single people should?
  
• I don't fuck my spouse. I fuck other people. I make love to my spouse. When's the last time you fucked? When's the last time you made love?
  

 

"You're weird"

 

• THANK YOU! That's the nicest thing anyone's said to me all week!
  
• 'Normal' people freak me out.
  
• (a la Capital One commercials) What's in your closet?
  
• At least I have the self assuredness, self acceptance, and honesty to put voice to my innermost thoughts. How's your self acceptance going?
  

 

----

 

Note that some of these responses could certainly lead to arguments I say that in jest, but few people are willing to expose their souls and disarm themselves in a rational discourse about their innermost secrets, fantasies, etc. When someone attempts to engage someone in such discourse, fire usually erupts.

 

Many vanilla people have a very hard time wrapping their heads around the idea of non-monogamy. Most swingers have taken a pathway that evolved over time to get them to the point of swinging. My own wife, five years ago, was of very much the same mindset as the people whom you are quoting. I would have bet you a million dollars she never would swing, and I hadn't even thought of opening those doors with her. It was her who brought it up initially!

 

There's no pat answer to any challenges that can flip someone's ideas into a frame of mind that they can understand why you swing or why you would even think about it.

[Learning 160]

Generally no one really outside the lifestyle understands...they are not going to give you a high five for waiting to swing. As long as you both are okay with it, that's all that matters. If a friend told me before that she was a swinger, I probably would gave said the same things. No matter what, you can't get the responses like you would like. That's why there is this board. We support you

[socolais 696]

One of the general characteristics of swingers is that we tend to be more self-deterministic than average. Yeah, there are exceptions to every rule of thumb. We decide our actions based on our own rationalizations rather than blindly following the norms and impositions of society. Most folks like to think of themselves as self-deterministic - meaning they are in control and take charge of their lives, but we see too many examples of people blindly following the herd. The trick is knowing when it is wise to follow and when its beneficial to lead.

 

Swinging takes the "guts" to make a significant decision that is completely inconsistent with the expectations of proper society. We see a benefit for our behavior and believe the rewards are greater than the costs - even when part of the cost includes social disapproval. We are responsible to ourselves and to each other for our sexual activities, we also accept a certain level of responsibility and respect for our playmates.

 

Respectful swinging doesn't destroy marriages - it enhances them and takes a mature relationship to the next level of commitment and enjoyment. The funny thing about swinging is that it doesn't make a damned bit of sense except to those who seek it out. The entrance barriers generally keep most of the folks away until they are ready to grow to the next level. When you see a swinging couple that appear to be experiencing issues with their sexual adventures, look for the breakdown in respect and communication.

[wifes_toy 53]

I think it depends. We had decided that we each were going to tell one existing friend so we at least had SOME sort of sounding board/existing friend who knew.

 

Turns out the friend she told was already a swinger ( too far away to play though ) and my friend response was "so you watched a guy fuck your wife?" and was able to handle it just fine. But then I knew he would be able to handle it. I don't think the rest of the people we know could handle it. However we do joke about it in front of other people. Mostly the best way to hide is right out in the open.

 

We have one set of friends where I think the guy COULD handle it. The wife would simply melt down. She also will complain if the rest of us talk about music she does not like. We don't hang around with them at all any more. The drama from her just got to be too much.

 

Now if we are on vacation then who cares. If they don't like it they can go away. If they are OK with it maybe play will happen.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I think you really have to pick carefully those you choose to "out" yourself too. Some choose to completely live their lives in the open and they can afford to do so. Others have jobs and families they may risk losing if their lifestyle choice comes out.

 

I think as you begin to explore the idea of swinging your mind opens a bit and it changes who you are. In the end, it will likely change some of your friendships whether you tell them about it or not. You will find that some of your friends you thought were great are really closed minded and not people you want to spend a lot of time around. Unfortunately, you probably just found this out the hard way.

 

My option for how to deal with these people is avoid the conversation altogether by not telling them. If it's too late and you feel you must reply, I agree with Bbarnsworth's answers. In the end, we each choose what is right for us, and how our lives will be led. We will not approve of everything our friends do, nor they of us. Sometimes it's best to just keep things to yourself.

 

The good news is that as you explore swinging you will most likely make many new friends who won't have any issue at all with your lifestyle choice

[SAMnTINA 362]

Why talk to non swingers about it how should they know how the other half lives, you will be surprised how many do, have or would like too.

 

Big surprise those who are open minded about it are generally doing it. This is between the two of you not friends swingers or vanilla and swingers can tell you how they feel or cope but that does not mean the same thing will hold true for you.

 

Married (or committed couples) that swing have to have a trust and love level way above average. It's not for everyone.

 

Two questions you should ask before jumping in:

 

1) Can we get past it if its not for us?

2) Are we doing this to share something with each other and not because something is missing?

[Dont.Stop 339]

We've found (not so surprisingly) that our gay friends are the safest ones to talk about the ls to.

 

Tell the wrong person and the story spreads and everyone's talking behind your back. I haven't yet found the benefit of outing ourselves to vanillas.

[Tia Vampire 167]

It's not everyone's cup of tea. Just think of what you thought about swinging before you actually got into it or started your research. I know now that we have become swingers, we do not hang out with our non-swinger friends as much. Our swinger friends are great to hang out with, party with, and the sex is a bonus. Plus most of our swinger friends are so open minded that they have opened our minds to think diffently about the world and people around us. It's fu%#@&* great to truely feel so free when we are out with our swinger friends. No games, drama and all that mind reading shit you have to do with your vanilla friends. Hope your journey is a fun one.

[xxxboxy 139]

I'd suggest a little more discretion in your private life.

[Gordo 618]

Agree with xxxboxy.

 

Why do you feel the need to share your private sex life???

 

Part of the problem is people don't normally really share their sex life with friends much less the fact that you're doing something considered "out there"

[ViSexual 1,008]

If they've never experienced it, they won't understand it!

 

I don't know how many times I've heard, "why jump out of a perfectly good airplane". It's just one of the things that goes along with being a master parachutist.

 

I had an expression that I used in training salesmen..., "You can't argue with ignorance"!

 

And, 'ignorance' isn't a negative term. It simply means unaware. If someone finds out, and is taken back, by your choice of lifestyle it will do no good to argue your case with them.

 

OK, I just had a thought that made me smile. I heard a salesman, a long time ago, complain that his wife had mentioned wanting to swing. Now that's not what she called it but I knew what she meant.

 

He asked my opinion and I told him that if he didn't consider it that someone might come and eat him out of house and home! LOL!

[myschyfnmayhem 17]

Ask them how healthy thier own relationship is. Do they not love thier partner enough to want them to have more pleasure? Are they too insecure? Make them realize that maybe they and thier spouse are a little too brittle,selfish or untrusting. Sex is Sex. Sex cannot kill Love. Only deceit and cruelty can kill Love.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

I don't really feel the need to justify, explain or defend our activities to those that can't and won't try to understand them.

.

[interested-05 135]

some may consider negative reactions bigoted, I simply see it as an inability to see the whole picture.

It isnt easy to understand a lifestyle which is so different, yet the person objecting finds him/herself having the same fantasies, imaginations and desires. having those fantasies doesnt make a person choose to act on them, but it does say that if they will be honest with themselves they are as human as the rest of us.

If they choose not to follow those desires it is both their right and priviledge. Just as those of us who do accept these desires are part of themselves, can be honest with ourselves and our spouses to share the part of themselves we have hidden from everyone else on earth. It is not easy to part from that secret room in our hearts and minds. It can be embarrassing. it can be difficult, but for those of us who are honest with ourselves and the person most important in our lives, it can be deeply satisfying.

I have no need to lie, or cheat or hide my deepest self from the person dearest to me.

[BiloxiCouple 695]

Ask them which hand they masturbate with.

[Cajun2Step 65]

We just choose to ignore the ignorant.

Our choice is our choice and none of their business.

[celtic239 297]

I agree with Julie in that I don't see a need to inform those outside of the Lifestyle that my wife and I enjoy the Lifestyle. I have always adhered to the rule that I don't take my work home and I don't speak about my home life at work. I guess the fact that we don't speak about swinging with non-swingers is just an extension of that logic.

[MissConfused 67]

We tried that once, telling people we thought we could trust. Heck, we even thought they might join us, not for sex but into the swinging world.

That was a big no no.

 

Turns out cheating on eachother with anyone was the way to go which is what they started to do. It makes no sense to me how swinging is 100% morally wrong, but cheating is 100% A-OK.

 

That's completely fu@#ed right there.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

Any suggestions as to what I can say??

 

"So great weather we are having isn't it?"

 

Seriously, we don't tell people for myriad reasons, this being one of them.

 

But if they somehow find out we would say something along these lines, "we respect the choices you make and don't judge you, you are free to live your lives as you see fit, and so are we. If you want to discuss the lifestyle because you are curious, we would be glad to talk about it with you in private, if not there is no need to continue this discussion. If my choices make you uncomfortable and you prefer to end our relationship, then I understand. I value your friendship so I hope you don't make that choice."

[MN Tom 251]

Yeah, stuff like this is pretty much why we dont discuss this with vanilla friends. Unless they drop obvious clues such as website names or something that would indicate they have found it already, we dont plan on bringing it up.

 

Some of my friends are guessing that we swing, but only one of them is curious enough to bring it up, and I havent discussed it with him either.

 

 

Now if we ended up in this discussion with some random person, then I would tell them what I thought. And they would see it in our eyes. And if they didnt, too bad for them.

[good times 991]

Have to agree with most of the others, don't tell your vanilla friends about your involvement in the lifestyle. And if you do tell one, be prepared to make a lot of new friends. The reason for that is that it has been our experience, learned the hard way, that if you tell one friend and that friend doesn't accept it, shortly, all of your mutual friends will know about it. And sadly, most of them will no longer want to associate with you any more either.

[Lascivious L&L 866]

Perhaps the answers aren't bigotry but rather surprise. Communication in a relationship is the way to solve problems and a friendship is a relationship.

 

Many of us were vanilla at one time. Talking about swinging with friends is one way people become introduced to swinging. Who best to provide good information than we who are swingers.

 

I think bad information needs to be dealt with by good information. Discretion may be the most reasonable path most of the time, but when discretion is no longer, as in this case, such specious comments should be met with understanding and reason.