Mentally challenged? a few questions...

[angelkin 1,326]

We went to a house party last night at the home of some friends, some couples were familiar to us and there were a few new ones as well. A nice mix of folks looking for adult fun.

 

One of the new couples brought another couple with them and it soon became apparent to me that their lady friend was somewhat mentally challenged. She seemed eager and willing to play, a very sweet young lady --but for some reason, I just couldn't get past the fact that she was handicapped.

 

Hubby felt the same as I did, so we just didn't play with them. For us, I believe we handled it in a way that was courteous and allowed us to feel comfortable with the situation. However, others did play with her/them and I guess I felt, well - disturbed by it. Of course, those choices are not mine to make for others, I would never never never say anything to anyone for making such a choice.

 

So the questions I have to pose are these:

 

How would you feel about being in this situation? and if bothered by it, how would you handle it?

Would you play with her/them?

Am I wrong to be bothered by it? or to feel so strongly?

 

A question for me to find the answer to within myself - if she had been attractive to us, would I have felt differently?

 

Happy to clarify if others have questions back. I look forward to your words of wisdom as I believe we will run into this couple again. I just want to be able to handle it with grace in the future - and find a way to be ok with it.

[Learning 160]

In the past I have come across some very sexualized developmentally delayed individuals, so much so that it was scary. They could be taken advantage of very easily. Depending how low she is, the scarier the situation. Like I wonder if she understood. It sounds like you were concerned and there's nothing wrong with that.

Though, in the lifestyle I am attracted to intelligent individuals who can stimulate the brain so if they seem a little lower intelligence wise I would also pass.

[lotsoffun201 175]

We all have met people who weren't the "brightest crayon in the box" yet seemed to function in mainstream society at least to a degree. If we are discussing a gal with say for instance, Down's Syndrome. I would be appalled. If she was clearly mentally challenged I think I would be apalled too.

 

If the female you describe was not all that bright, well then I suppose I would think about it, but its still hard to tell. It's much easier to tell if she is being coerced or forced to do this. Were they married, or just a couple who arrived together. If they were a true committed couple I guess it would be different. If not, I would suspect the question would have to be asked as to whether or not the male just found some unfortunate soul to bring to a gathering to get off.

 

I think there are too many variables here to give an honest opinion

[exploringRM 305]

At our local monthly meet and greet, a few months ago, there were a few downs syndrome women there. I don't know the extent of their mental handicap, but it seemed a bit uncomfortable to me. But they are adults and perhaps able to make proper choices, but who knows.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

I would have a problem with anyone being in that situation if they could not make a decision based on full knowledge and understanding of what was going on.

 

The only caveat would be a condition that does not affect cognitive function, such as SOME strokes, that make it appear from a distance that a person his a learning disability. Even this situation I would approach with a huge amount of caution. Not being a physician I am not sure what, if any other diseases could appear on the surface to be a learning disability without affecting cognitive powers.

[sweet_tna 680]

I think you can never go wrong if you follow your gut instinct. In this case, I'd have had the same concerns--how capable is this person of understanding what they're doing and to make their own decisions. Since there probably wouldn't be a way to (politely) determine this, I'd probably decline playtime with them, too, even if we did find that person attractive.

 

=)

[two4youinswva 3,068]

A very interesting situation.

Happy to clarify if others have questions back.

 

I have one or two.

What were the indicators that led you to the conclusion that she was mentally challenged?

Did anyone else comment on her status, or did you feel that there were others there that felt the same as you?

 

 

Speaking for us, if we felt someone was mentally challenged to the point that we felt they were not capable of making an informed decision about what casual sex was all about, we would most definitely take a pass, hot or not.

Now, we aren't rocket surgeons, but we do find intelligence and smart humor to be a big turn on, so I'm pretty sure that if there were any doubt about a person's ability to make their own choices, we'd probably have already passed on them before it got to that point.

 

 

Now, the big question is, what is the cutoff point where we see someone as mentally challenged?

 

In my life, I've dealt with a few ladies and men that probably wouldn't qualify as mentally challenged, or handicapped in any current sense of the word, but, they came across as the type that could easily be manipulated into doing just about anything (See "People that believe Facebook is going to start charging for their service" or "A Prince in Nigeria is sending me $276 million). I'm sure we've met one or two of those in a swinging environment as well.

[angelkin 1,326]

A very interesting situation.

 

 

I have one or two.

What were the indicators that led you to the conclusion that she was mentally challenged?

Did anyone else comment on her status, or did you feel that there were others there that felt the same as you?

 

Her speech and mannerisms were the first indicators. Her ability to hold a conversation was limited and the manner in which she interacted with people was that of a child. I in no way feel she was being coerced, she was with her significant other who was not mentally challenged, and he watched over her. I sensed she was a sexual being and learning to explore her boundaries - I just don't think she had any. I got the sense that in that situation a blow job would be as common as a handshake...not to say I have not met others with the same attitude that were fully functional.

 

We were not the only ones who did not participate with her and yes, I felt they were put off as well. I have to state clearly that she was not attractive and did not appear particularly clean in her appearance. I cannot assume that maybe the others just did not find her appealing.

 

Now, the big question is, what is the cutoff point where we see someone as mentally challenged?

 

 

I suppose every situation is different - AND as you mentioned here, the intelligence level of a potential playmate is important to us. We like people that are able to hold an intelligent conversation and stimulate our minds and not just our bodies. I guess if a person is capable of holding a job, then they should have the ability to make other decisions that affect their life.

 

Thanks to everyone that has replied. I see some similar and some different points of view, which is what I was hoping for. Hearing others' feelings will help me to understand mine.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

Her ability to hold a conversation was limited and the manner in which she interacted with people was that of a child. .......................I sensed she was a sexual being and learning to explore her boundaries - I just don't think she had any. I got the sense that in that situation a blow job would be as common as a handshake...not to say I have not met others with the same attitude that were fully functional.

.......................

and did not appear particularly clean in her appearance.

 

Yeah, that's not a good vibe for us either. It's actually kind of a creepy vibe.

Thanks for the follow up info.

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

We haven't experienced a mentally challenged person, but like others said we enjoy conversation and intellectual stimulation so we probably wouldn't be interested. If someone is unkempt/not clean, we definitely wouldn't be interested.

 

We were at a party once where there was a girl who was very drunk/high and did not seem capable at all of deciding to play. It made me feel quite uncomfortable. We just steered clear of that couple.

[twistedpretzels 100]

i work with handicapped kids. it feels creepy to me. but that's just me.

[Chicup 41]

I'm going to be blunt.

 

Retarded is a turn off.

 

So while under ideal circumstances I don't think there is anything wrong with it (and note I said ideal circumstances), I would not play with such an individual.

 

Its hard enough dealing with some of the issues that non-clinically retarded people have with their swinging as it is.

[Tia Vampire 167]

We would not play with a mentally challenged person either. We would feel we were taking advantage of a easy situation and we would be worried if that person really understood what they were getting themselves into.

[GnJ 15]

I've come to the conclusion that we humans are all mentally challenged. Some more than others. For example, criminals. For them to justify an illegal act, knowing the punishment, and yet they still commit the crime. That elevated isn't making it to the top floor?

 

With that said, if I could look at a person and think that they have mental issues, then I will not have any desire to play with them.

[MN Tom 251]

Pretty much for us, if there is anyone that we aren't sure of in some regard, we won't play with them.

 

I dont believe we've seen anyone who was medically labeled as mentally challenged, but maybe at a large party there has been.

 

Same goes for anything else happening too, be it too drunk, high on drugs.. Any obvious impairment is a turn off for us.

[MoonLightKiss 28]

I don't think I could play with someone who was mentally challenged. Like someone who was too drunk to make a decision I would always wonder if they were truly capable of making an informed decision. And for that matter, some partners may be good at "pretending" to care but really don't. It just feels too weird and loaded with potential pitfalls. That and I am more attracted to intelligent people I can carry on a conversation with.

[Just Passing By 140]

Just to throw another variable, many people with Asperger's are very highly intelligent, but have difficulties in picking up social clues , and nonverbal comunication.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Interesting question. On the one hand from working with mentally disabled people in the past, I know that their sex drive is just as high if not higher than anyone else. For instance, years ago I worked at a home for mentally handicapped women. Most of these women could barely communicate verbally including this one lady who had a history of disappearing for days at a time ... to get laid. I'm not sure how they knew that's what she was off doing, but from my time with her I didn't doubt it. We'd catch her masturbating on a regular basis, she'd try to sexually molest other ladies in the house, etc. So, there's that.

 

I doubt your situation involved anyone nearly this challenged, I'm guessing she was ok enough to communicate what she wanted. If she wasn't, I'd be worried that perhaps she wasn't capable of really consenting to what was going on. In the end, I'd probably still agree with Chicup... it would be a turn-off.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

So the questions I have to pose are these:

 

How would you feel about being in this situation? and if bothered by it, how would you handle it?

Would you play with her/them?

Am I wrong to be bothered by it? or to feel so strongly?

 

A question for me to find the answer to within myself - if she had been attractive to us, would I have felt differently?

 

 

Thank you for posting this question/situation. I've never seen this and honestly, I hope I never ever do. I know the range and types of mental challenged/developmentally delayed (physical/emotional/mentally) is a wide one but I have to go by my personal knowledge on this. My older brother is severely mentally and physically handicapped. The thought of someone taking advantage of him makes me sick to my stomach because he would not be able to know at all what was going on. His abilities are the equivalent to a 6 month-old baby. On the other side, I have 2 brother-in-laws and 1 sister-in-law that have Down's Syndrome as well as various cousins that have Autism. They are much more functional than my brother on all fronts but they still seem to have the innocent mind of a child. However, as someone else noted, even those of us who aren't developmentally delayed may have suffered a stroke or concussion, or have a mental disorder (such as bi-polar or schizophrenia)...what and where is it that we draw the line?

 

As for your questions: I wouldn't be comfortable with the situations and I'd probably steer clear. Depending on what was happening, we might even leave. From what you wrote, we wouldn't play with them. And no, you're not wrong to be bothered by it. It's pretty clear that many of the other posters would feel the same. I don't think you'd feel differently if you were attracted to her. You would probably still not play considering the woman's mental capacity.

[losAmantes 318]

If they are not competent to give their informed consent, anyone that plays with them could be charged with rape or sexual battery.

[angelkin 1,326]

We've never ran into this couple again and before and since that time, we've never been in this situation. She wasn't severely handicapped, but I don't suppose she was able to get a driver's license and was likely on some form of disability program as I don't think she had the capacity to hold a job. If the mental handicap spectrum is a 1-5 with 1 being the lowest and 5 being most functional, but still disabled, she was maybe a 4.

 

Most at the party were polite and just stayed clear. IMHO, it was poor judgment for her friends to bring her along.

[Billygoat 443]

This is actually a great topic. It is all about choices, expectations, personal limitations and best judgement. We have met so many different people, couples and relationships in our years in the lifestyle. Older, younger, fit, buff, curvy, skinny, bbw, bbm, sbbw, sbbm, and super sized. Small to tall, no breasts (surgery) to large natural and large augmented. Small penis, big penis....holly crap that’s huge penis, surgically corrected penis (prostate cancer). All variances of sexual identification. Every possibility of social and economic levels. I can’t begin to list the number of varied parties that are available.....to suit every level of interest and kink. Parties that specially cater to those in the higher good looks and fitness level and those that more resemble a cross between biker/street car club and trailer park. The latter has always been far more fun and active by the way. And like our daily vanilla life our friends range all levels. Some employed modestly to CEO. Reverend to fireman to truck driver to surgeon. We have friends both in and out of the lifestyle that have had head trauma from military to car accidents. Limitations yes. For the casual observer not capable of communication. But there was. Like listening to someone with a harsh and heavy accent. Or there is signing and electronic communication. Paraplegics,amputees, sightless, deaf and mute. And yes those that have mental limitations....but are functional. Capable of communication, decision making, choices and desires. Does not need to be your cup of tea. The lifestyle is all about choice. Use your judgement just like any other potential encounter. But do try to keep an open mind. Appearances are quite often misleading.

[couplers 4,649]

This thread is very interesting to me, and disturbing. I've never faced the situation with a guy or girl, but I would flee in either case.

 

One thing, however, caught my attention:

 

... On the one hand from working with mentally disabled people in the past, I know that their sex drive is just as high if not higher than anyone else...

This made me think, why is it that we would deny people who desire sexual activity as much or more than we do, the opportunity to enjoy that pleasurable part of life? IDK, at first I thought that no way these people should be exploited, but then thought perhaps denying them what they want, what just about all of us want, is wrong.

 

All I know is that I don't want to be the one making that decision (whether they/who should be allowed to have sex), nor do I want to be the one engaging in it with them.

[padoc 1,703]

Swinging can be loosely defined as two or more consenting adults choosing to have sex with one another. Since this is a hobby and recreation for us, we don't want to have to be overly concerned whether someone is capable of actually granting consent to have sex with us or not. If either of us had the smallest doubt, we'd pass. Having investigated sexual abuse, rape, and other sex related crimes, I think that to do less than err on the side of caution would creep out both of us. In over 15 years, we've only ever encountered a clearly mentally challenged woman once. It was obvious that her husband was the driving force behind the couple and equally obvious that she was probably not capable of making an informed choice. We steered clear and never returned to the M&G venue where we encountered them. On a similar note, we were at a club in Pa around 2005. We watched a guy roll a wheelchair around the dance floor with an obviously crippled woman in the seat. When a slow song was played by the DJ, the guy lifted the woman out of the chair and "danced" with her while dragging her limp feet across the floor. It was a horribly disturbing sight.

[shy_couple 459]

We agree with everyone here that this awkward to say the least. Unsure if we would have stayed at the party or just stayed away from this person/couple.

 

We have never been at an event with someone like described in the original post but we did go to a house party where there was a woman who was a train wreck! Her hair was fried, all over her head. She was drunk smelled like week, dressed in high heels and could barely stand. It was such a mess we couldn’t help but notice. We nicknamed her Skanky McCrackwhore. As the night progressed, it was obvious that we were not going to be playing with anyone, not even each other because the party was I. A 2 bedroom, 1 bath bungalow. We were at the dining room table talking to a couple. Just chit chat. The wife was putting off a totally not interested vibe. Skanky sat down next to us and was zoning out listening to music. Mrs Shy went to the restroom because we w try to leave soon, the guy from the couple followed her to the bathroom to invite us to play, meanwhile I was left at the table and SKanky McCrackwhore leans over and whispers, if you guys want to go back we’re cool. Couldn’t hit the bricks fast enough.

 

Personally, I was caring for someone with Huntington’s Disease. Aweful Illness that attacks the fairly young and leaves them fully aware that they are trapped in a a body that has contorted into a contorted trap that they cannot control any longer. (I intend zero offense to any with this in their lives) Her husband would come in with her. One day as we were moving her her he said “It’s okay honey, it’s the same position we have sex.” Really disturbed me and others working with them. Probably because we were unsure if there was consent, if she desired it, or if he was forcing himself on an essentially paralyzed woman. To quote other posters, creepy.

 

So understand the of question of limitations and ability to consent both physically and mentally.