Unreasonable?

[Whoahblackbetty 15]

I'm new to swinging and I got involved because I fell in love with a swinger. I like the concept and I'm on board with nonmonogamy, in theory, but I am finding myself becoming disillusioned with it and not completely sure why. I think i might know the answer already but maybe fleshing out the problems here might give me another perspective. Any comments would be appreciated.

 

A little background and baggage: My bf and I have been together 5 months. I met him online after separating from my husband. Until meeting him i had only been in serious ltrs (except for a short, slutty period in hs) and wanted to keep things light as i healed from my divorce. From the beginning, I planned to date only casually.

 

That didn't last long. BF didn't tell me he was a swinger OR that he lived and played with his ex gf (his primary) until after we fell hard and fast for each other. I felt awful about being the "other" woman. Now, I fear becoming her. I have never cheated on anyone and was mortified with my behavior, especially since my marriage ended in large part due to husband cheating.

 

I should have told bf to come to me only when his other relationship ended but i couldn't resist him. She knew of me as a play partner only and, to this day does not know the full truth. They broke up a month ago and I became his primary. Having the same done to me is now my worst fear.

 

Bf has been swinging for a couple of years. He offered to give up swinging if I couldn't deal with it but I didn't (and still don't) think I could ask him to do that so I've slowly warmed to the idea based on things i read here and from the Internet and books, swingers I have known, and a desire to have fun as well as push myself to deal with the abandonment stuff and jealousy issues I have had in the past.

 

I have had 5 or 6 playmates so far---one couple, the rest single males.

 

Our relationship is awesome in these ways: we communicate well, we share interests and beliefs, we are attentive and loving towards each other, we have fun together, he excites me, we share sexual/kink interests, he is giving and thoughtful, he helps me stretch my boundaries and set goals for my life, physical attraction, emotional connection, etc.

 

But here are some things I'm having trouble with:

 

1. Everything I learned and read told me that swinging was a "together" activity and this fact contributed to my attraction to it. I even read a statistic (can't find it now) that showed a significant increase in swing couples staying together long term. I have some abandonment issues so that fed straight into my hope for lasting love. Problem is, im not finding "togetherness in swinging" to be the case in my case. bF hasn't told his other partners about me and fights me on the subject when I tell him it's important to me that we come "out" together. He says it will keep him from getting laid. I think it will help him get laid! Besides, it will help me feel more secure. Is it unreasonable to ask for this a month (or five) into it?

 

2. I have not enjoyed my encounters with others as much as I'd hoped I would. Maybe I just haven't played with the right people but the experiences felt bland, unfulfilling and boring.

 

3. My two club experiences were pretty lame and I found the people to be cliquish and kind of rude.

 

4. bF and i can't seem to commit to rules. We've discussed it in depth and have lists on lists made but I struggle with having rules at all. He agrees to most of my rules (except for a few that seem really big to me---no overnights, being known in the scene as a couple, for example) and I agree to all of his, though I struggle with the concept or rules altogether. The insecure part of me needs the comfort and security but my brain tells me that if bf and i are "really true love", then we will always come back to each other so why bother with them?

 

5. We still have yet to play with others together or even at the same event. In the beginning, BFs living situation prevented that but now, there's no excuse and it ain't happened yet. He suffers from performance anxiety and says he prefers one on ones but he encourages me to make couples dates and pimp him out to singles (none have panned out yet----flakes). He also says he worries about whether or not he can handle seeing me with someone else. He did it with his ex just fine but says he didn't have the same emotional connection with her. I don't even know what I prefer or if i can handle seeing him play (though I think I can because I'm okay, even aroused by hearing about it or watching him on video.) I actually think it might alleviate my fears and lessen my anxiety to watch him but since I haven't experienced it, how would I know?

 

6. BF has had a few experiences since we've been officially together. Prior to this, I was able to detach from his activities. Since I didn't see him everyday, it didn't seem real me. Now it's in my face and its rough dealing with the reality. What are some good tips for dealing with jealousy?

 

7. It takes me about a day to get comfortable with his playdates. I like to know who, what, when, where etc. Then, I spend time assessing the threat level, reassuring myself that he will come back, and planning fun things to do while he's gone. But then, Bf changes plans at the last minute and I freak out anyway. All of my preparation is useless. Change is scary for an anxious person like myself. Tonight, he was supposed to meet a couple and possibly a single lady afterward. The couple canceled and the single wanted to hang out only. Instead of coming "home" (we don't officially live together but he's here most of the time), he texted me saying he was going to the swing club. I wished him well. Then, I got a message hours later saying he was tired and "crashing there". Right now, my anxiety is kicking because I have no idea where "there" is and never got another message. Did he stay the night at single lady's house, go home with someone from the club, or crash at the club (one of his play partners works there so it's a possibility).... Who knows? But I hate this feeling of floating around in the breeze wondering. Is it unreasonable to expect him to keep close to the original plan without surprises?

 

7. I haven't made any lifestyle friends. This board is my only link and I don't know what is normal or typical in these situations.

 

8. I resist the urge to veto because i am afraid he will decide I'm too much trouble or cramping his style/caging him in and leave.

 

9. Part of my attraction to bf is the fact that I cant seem to get enough of him, physically, but we don't have sex as often as I'd like. This is not really a libido issue. We both have high drives but his style is to focus on variety, avoiding sexual boredom by being with many women. He wants sex as often as I do, just not always with me whereas I want him, could truly be satisfied with only him and no one else can compare. Does this mean, I'm not wired for swinging?

[PB&J 1,086]

Wow. I hate to say it but this list is nothing but one red flag after another.

BF didn't tell me he was a swinger OR that he lived and played with his ex gf (his primary) until after we fell hard and fast for each other. I felt awful about being the "other" woman.

He cheated on the last one with you. He didn't tell you the truth about himself when you started your affair.

 

bF hasn't told his other partners about me and fights me on the subject when I tell him it's important to me that we come "out" together. He says it will keep him from getting laid.

Honesty is so important. Not just between you and him but with his other partners. If he isn't onboard about that he's just thinking about, well, getting laid, and not you or those other women.

 

2. I have not enjoyed my encounters with others as much as I'd hoped I would. Maybe I just haven't played with the right people but the experiences felt bland, unfulfilling and boring.

If you are not enjoying it, don't do it. Do you feel like it before the encounters, is there an excitement and sexual thrill in the lead-up, or are you really just doing it because he's a swinger and that's what he wants in a partner?

 

He agrees to most of my rules (except for a few that seem really big to me---no overnights, being known in the scene as a couple, for example)

If he isn't willing to let the swinging world know that you two are a couple, that seems to be a really big problem. If he does overnights even though they make you unhappy, once again, he is thinking of himself and not you.

 

Now it's in my face and its rough dealing with the reality. What are some good tips for dealing with jealousy?

You shouldn't have to. If he really truly cares for you more than getting laid, he would be willing to STOP and work on your relationship before embarking on an open relationship (that's what this is, not really swinging in the "classical" sense)

 

It takes me about a day to get comfortable with his playdates. I like to know who, what, when, where etc. Then, I spend time assessing the threat level, reassuring myself that he will come back, and planning fun things to do while he's gone. But then, Bf changes plans at the last minute and I freak out anyway.... Is it unreasonable to expect him to keep close to the original plan without surprises?

No, of course it isn't. But when he can do this to you, he's in control, and you aren't. No wonder you feel helpless. You are.

 

I haven't made any lifestyle friends. This board is my only link and I don't know what is normal or typical in these situations.

NOT normal! NOT typical!

 

I resist the urge to veto because i am afraid he will decide I'm too much trouble or cramping his style/caging him in and leave.

I hate to be harsh. If he's not going to listen to the concerns of the woman he loves, then is he going to be worth investing all this time/effort/emotion into?

 

He wants sex as often as I do, just not always with me whereas I want him, could truly be satisfied with only him and no one else can compare. Does this mean, I'm not wired for swinging?

You might not be. Or this might not be the right time of your life to try it.

 

From what you're said, this relationship is not destined for success. He wants to go out and get laid by lots of women and get to come home to you if and when he feels like it. OF COURSE you are having jealousy and security issues.

Now, it's easy for me to say this without knowing you and him, with just sitting in my office of a Saturday morning reading what you've written. But as a checklist of what's wrong in a relationship, this is pretty bad. In the end, it seems that he wants what he wants, and you can get on board or get out. So, are you willing to put up with it, or do you want more from a relationship?

 

I wouldn't be swinging if I didn't enjoy it, if I hadn't formed good friendships with the people we play with, both male and female, and if I wasn't doing this for the most part in the company of my husband, who listens to my concerns, as I listen to his. I would hope that you could find that same comfort, but if you can't, rethink what you are doing, for your sake. You deserve better than what you've got right now.

[rainbowskye 102]

 

I totally agree with PB&J on this one.

 

My guy and I work opposite shifts with opposite off days. For us to organize much is a challenge. so, we do have a girl who we play with individually and together. She is fully aware of our commitment to one another and knows she is just a FWB for us. We are both in contact with her. We don't have new play partners unless we have all met together. It keeps the communication and boundaries we have set in check, and enhances what we have.

 

It sounds like he wants his cake and to eat it too. If you are not comfortable with any of this, put the brakes on it fast!

 

Swinging may or may not be for you, and you won't know until you've found the right guy to try this with, he doesn't seem like the right one. Honestly, this isn't really swinging to me.

 

If you haven't met his play partners, chances are they don't know you exist.

 

When the Mr or I seek a play partner, we are both involved.

 

I see things he may miss and vice versa.

 

Example, one girl said she was looking for FWB. She was bi and wanted a couple with a bi girl. Well, turns out she was looking for a guy only who could be her sugar daddy. There were signs I saw that she was only interested in him or a man in general that he did not. He even thought I was jealous. When I went straight to the point with her the truth surfaced.

 

She did not become a playmate for he, I or us.

 

Communication is key and so is honesty and it sees like he is falling short with these two things.

 

If you have concerns, he should listen. My Guy always listens, even when I've not said something.

 

I think the relationship is too new to be swinging to be honest. He went from one to another and there hasn't been enough time to build a solid foundation.

[VegasLee 1,486]

I am with PB&J on this one.

 

You two are no where ready to be swinging in your current relationship level. To many things going on with both of you.

 

I hope I am wrong but it appears to me he just likes having a women attached to him for Swinging. Singles tend to get a bad rap in Swinging so with you being there he has something to bring to the party.

 

After reviewing what you have said you are not even close to doing this. To many issues to deal with.

 

Good luck to you but I have a bad feeling this is going to be a short lived relationship.

[MN Tom 251]

Im with the others. This is just chock full of red flags.

 

The most important part of all of this is open and honest communication. And I dont believe you guys have that. Heck, your relationship started off without it, and it's continuing.

 

It may sound harsh, but I have a sneaking suspicion that part of your "value" to him is a meal ticket. SM's have nowhere near the success rate as couples do, and the fact that he's not really interested in playing as a couple with you or even to involve you in his play leads me to believe that he doesn't want you to see what he's doing.

 

Also that talk about him not wanting sex with you as often as you want it with him is a huge flag to me. Aside from a guy who's having physical difficulties, I cant imagine a guy who wants sex all the time actually turning it down from the one he's supposed to love most. It's mind boggling to me.

 

I could understand if maybe he was having physical issues or he had a low sex drive, but the idea that he wants it often just not with you is wrong.

 

His changing of plans and not giving you much for security in that regard isnt good either.

 

 

As for the issues on your end, such as a lack of friends and unknowing feelings of jealousy, that is hard to say. Right now you aren't getting a very good example of what swinging can be, so it's not shocking that you are sour on it, and that probably shows to other people.

 

We would advise like the others have said, you guys need to stop swinging and work on your own relationship. If he doesn't want to, then you have a choice to make. You need a solid foundation to swing successfully, we have seen many couples who are young in their relationship doing the same thing, only to break up in a short while. I imagine there are 5 month dating couples out there who can swing successfully, but they are definitely in a minority. Being able to handle swinging takes a lot of comfort and security in a relationship. Without that, it's a huge crapshoot with very poor odds.

[Whoahblackbetty 15]

Thanks so much everyone. You are telling me what I think I already knew. Keep it coming

[Whoahblackbetty 15]

Oh and in response to pb&js question about whether or not there is a sexual thrill prior to me playing:

 

I feel some excitement, especially with the attention i recieve when being courted. I love that part for sure, but generally I feel nervous and rushed when it comes down to play. I prefer deep, intense, loving sex and if I can't have that, I'd rather wait until I can. Settling for mediocre casual sex is so lackluster.

 

The whole process is a pain in the ass, too...spending time getting to know people only to have them flake out at the last minute, is really annoying.

 

Anyway, I have removed my swing profiles for now until I figure out where I want to go with it. Im also planning on having a Come-to-Jesus meeting with bf about it when he wakes up. We talked shortly after I posted that but didn't get too far into it because we were tired. If y'all have suggestions for some good areas to cover in that conversation (other than the ones mentioned already), I'd love to hear them.

[PB&J 1,086]

Just an additional thought. A couple of years ago I had a gentleman friend that I played with alone, and we had a great time. He then met a wonderful woman and fell in love with her. While he would have been perfectly happy to keep on with his old games, she was not comfortable with it, so he stopped, because his relationship with her was more important than the casual sex, and he was afraid that she might have gone along with it because she didn't want to lose him.

[Alura 2,774]

I think your name tells you what you should do, Whoahblackbetty.

 

Frankly, I have trouble understanding what attracts you to your "boyfriend" (I doubt he is even that!) but it's obviously neither his communication skills nor his committment ability.

 

I hope you hang out with us after this unpleasant chapter of your life ends. You seem to "get it" while he is nowhere near.

 

My best to you.

 

Alura

[Gordo 618]

Just split from your husband for 5 months and in a new relationship with a B/F to whom the concept of honesty doesn't exist.

 

No wonder you're having problems. You need to heal from the split and this (new relationship) behaviour can't possibly help.

 

It almost seems like you are desparately clinging to a miserable relationship. The question is why?

 

Regardless I don't see this as real swinging but more of a pit stop of convenience for the B/F

[Dont.Stop 339]

Your first concern says it all. If he can't come out with your relationship then he's hiding it. And if his reason for hiding it is "it will prevent him from getting laid" then you only need to ask which is more important to him. And obviously you know the answer.

 

It's only swinging when everyone knows. When partners are left in the dark about it, well there's another term for it... It's called CHEATING.

 

I wish you the best. This is clearly not it though.

[Alura 2,774]

Im also planning on having a Come-to-Jesus meeting with bf about it when he wakes up.

 

How did this go?

 

Alura

[Whoahblackbetty 15]

Thanks again everyone! I haven't made any decisions yet and did not have a chance for a big discussion with him yesterday like I wanted but I promise I will post as soon as I do. I think I have a good plan now for areas to address. First, is going to be a clear demand to stop the hiding. Y'all are freaking awesome! (btw, regarding my marriage, we were separated prior to the official separation for close to two years.)

[Dont.Stop 339]

Y'all are freaking awesome!

 

We're not awesome. It just seems that way because we talk to awesome people (like you).

[Alura 2,774]

We're not awesome. It just seems that way because we talk to awesome people (like you).

 

Sometimes we talk to folks who are less-than-awesome, but our advice is considerably different!

 

Alura

[Whoahblackbetty 15]

Haha alura.

 

Ok so we found a chance to talk. Well, let me rephrase that. He mentioned something casually about my dinner and I told him to "back the fuck off my salad" which led to the discussion. Lol

 

All play partners will now be made clearly aware of my existence and he will be setting up our online presence as a couple this week. We also have a plan going forward regarding sex with each other, etc. It seems I misunderstood what he originally said which was not that he wanted to have sex with me less but that he didn't want to feel pressured. Well, who does?

 

I also decided that, regardless of my lofty ideals about freedom and the rules, I need rules to feel comfortable so we are buckling down on setting them tonight.

 

I am not naive enough to think that will solve all of my issues but it's a start.

[Gordo 618]

Haha alura.

 

"back the fuck off my salad" which led to the discussion. Lol

 

LOL remind me to never piss you off

[Whoahblackbetty 15]

Snort @ gordo! Lol

[MN Tom 251]

Well, it's a start. And it's all up to you as to whether or not you want to continue at any time.

[Whoahblackbetty 15]

Well, he stepped up. All the play partners are aware of me and our profiles have been updated with relationship status. We are coming "out" at the clubs this weekend, etc. We are still working on rules but I'm pleased with our progress so far.

[Hallofrumors 44]

Way to go! Sounds like you have stepped up and played the other role instead of him possibly stepping on you. Keep us posted on how it goes.

[swing.kidz 367]

Unfortunately, I don't think this is much of a resolution, rather more of a pacification to get you off his back. Remember, this relationship started in deceit and as a conduit for him to more easily get what he wants; once you start making demands, all of a sudden things get more difficult, so he'll say and do just enough to make you happy (in my experience, anyone who deceives is simply a manipulator, and that is how I define this move)...so based on what you told us, many of us redefined your relationship as he is cheating NOT swinging.

 

If I were you, I would more closely heed what others have said previously - for both of you to either back off of swinging altogether and get this relationship to a level where deceit has no place...or end it. Many times even the most solid marriages require hours of open, honest and MUTUAL (key word there) communication to even begin thinking of an idea like swinging. You know your relationship better than we do, but we know what we've seen in this lifestyle, and for you to believe that a quick "dinner conversation" is going to smooth out the bumps you've already encountered (some bumps that don't even have a relevancy to swinging) is a little naive, methinks.

 

I wish you the best, but please don't be surprised if you haven't seen the last of his shenanigans.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

You have a right to be worried. There are so many red flags in your situation it's not funny. Run now while it's still early before you find yourself more entrenched in his mess. He is not honest and while you know he's lying to others, chances are he's lying to you as well.

[Alura 2,774]

In the vanilla world, lying is an expected part of a relationship.

 

In the swingers world, lying is a deal breaker.

 

Oh! What a wonderful web we weave!

 

Alura

[rainbowskye 102]

It seems like he is telling you what you want to hear, instead of doing the right thing.

 

I think it is way too early to be entering this lifestyle. There isn't enough time spent creating a strong foundation.

 

He has hardly been truthful and in this lifestyle it requires 200% honesty.

 

This is a disaster waiting to happen.

[Whoahblackbetty 15]

Thanks everyone. I hear what you are saying and I just want to clarify, we do communicate, not just at dinner---- that conversation took a few days because we had kids around and such and last night, he suggested on his own that we not swing for awhile until i feel better. This weekend, he has planned a relationship-strengthening weekend. Looking forward to that.