Single male hiding swinging involvement from girlfriend

[shrevecouple 252]

This is me on the outside looking in. I will try to describe this situation as best I can.

 

I have some swinger friends who have a single male friend whom the husband of the couple I am friends with has been friends with since childhood. The situation lies with the single male friend. What's funny to me is that when he's single he is a very active swinger. He tends though to date vanilla girls. He claims that he is completely monogamous when he dates. (but of course has a lifetime membership to one of the swinger websites)

 

He is now in what I would call a serious relationship. He has been dating the same girl for about a year. She is completely in love with him and of course they spend a good amount of time with my friends. The girlfriend sees my friend (the wife of the couple) as a good friend and confidant. What I have failed to mention so far is that yes the single male and my friends have had a swinging relationship. It did stop when he became involved with the girl.

 

The single male friend (knowing that the girlfriend may hear some conversations that would leave her scratching her head) outs my friends as swingers to his girlfriend but of course leaves out the "minor" detail that he is as well. You know kind of running damage control so that she won't think anything of some off color conversation that she may overhear.

 

Here is my question. They have chosen to keep their involvement with each other a secret from her. This is just my opinion, but I would feel wrong being a confidant and close friend of someone that I had such a big secret to hide from them. I would not want the worrying all the time that someone would reveal our secret (my friend likes to mix her vanilla and swinger friends at vanilla parties). Why leave a bomb like that waiting to go off at any moment? Tell the truth, get it out there so she can decide whether it's something she can deal with and move on. I feel sorry for this girl at times because know I would probably feel like a fool if everyone knew this but me and I found out after my relationship had been serious for a while.

 

I hope ya'll were able to get the situation I was trying to describe. I am curious to see what the majority thinks on this.

[MN Tom 251]

Well, my grasp is that there is a vanilla gal who is being kept in the dark about the swinger relationships all around her pretty much?

 

If so, and they have kept that up for a year... I wouldn't like it either. But it's not really your place to tell the gal.

 

Talk with your friends about it, and if they disagree, leave it at that. It's their lives that are asking for drama, not yours.

[shrevecouple 252]

You are pretty much right about that. She knows he has swinger friends but I believe her to be completely in the dark about him. There have been get-togethers where out of the women who where there he had been with the majority of them. Of course she don't know that.

 

I have had this conversation with my friend. Her take on it is "it's in the past" (speaking of her sexual relationship with him) and "I don't wanna hurt her feelings because I like her". I understand both of those statements and if this relationship where still brand new and they didn't know where it was headed,of course, why reveal such information to someone who probably won't be around a month from now. But this has turned serious and my friend has also become a good friend to her.

 

And you are right, it is them that will deal with the drama once their secret creeps out. Like I told her it is not for me or anyone else to tell. She or their friend should do it.

 

All I can go on of course is how I would feel. I would feel very deceived if I made close friends with a woman that my husband failed to inform me he had a sexual relationship with prior. Is it a detail that should matter, who knows, maybe it would or maybe it wouldn't but I think when it comes to close relationships it matters. Now if we are at the mall and he sees a girl he screwed back in high school he don't necessarily need to point her out and say. Hey I got with her. LOL

[twistedpretzels 100]

This is just wrong...not fair to her and wrong of him.

[Funlife413 15]

I can understand the murky dynamic at play here-- If the girl is not into the lifestyle, and the guy really loves her (been together for a year), then the options are, honesty and a potential ending of a lifelong friendship (if the girl freaks out and says "I don't want you to see them again!"), or dishonesty, or more diplomatically put, discretion, that relegates the swinging in the category of a past relationship, not all of which require full disclosure. It does make you and your wife complicit in the cover-up, which is unfair of him, and of course, starting a relationship by withholding certain facts is never a good move. Still, I agree with prior posts that it's not for you to take action, but your friend.

 

Unless...

 

If your friend hasn't sworn you to secrecy, you could come clean for him. Phrase it as, "We really like you, and we think you and he make an awesome couple. We're very close, we even tried swinging with him a few times, and we've never seen him so happy or content." That might take the edge off. But its risky. Best to say nothing sometimes, and hope for a fully disclosed future.

[knb2004 364]

My take on it is that it's a disaster in the making regardless of what was or wasn't said and by whom. Swingers and vanillas don't belong together. Like oil and water, the two just don't mix.

[norcalcouple 15]

It's a lose-lose situation for you. I think it would be worse to tell and everyone hate you vs you keep your mouth shut and if and when she finds out she will hate you for not telling her.

[Dont.Stop 339]

So he stopped swinging when he got involved with her. And he wants to hide the past.

 

What really sucks for her is that when she eventually finds out, she's gonna feel betrayed by everyone in the circle, especially her confidant.

 

I don't know that it's anyone's job other than his to let her know. It would make me uncomfortable and I'd would prefer to stay out of their company until he came clean.

[Alura 2,773]

"Sorry, Henry! Life's too short to live a lie and living a lie for someone else is even worse. If the subject comes up, I'll tell her. So it's better if you tell her yourself now and sort it out between y'all."

 

That's how I'd do it. Friends don't ask friends to lie for them.

 

I told White Fox early on; I'm surely glad I did.

[Just Passing By 140]

Single Guy is not currently swinging, or as far as related here stepping out on Current GF. Seemingly Single Guy has made deliberate decision to be monogamous with Current GF, and seemingly to not pursue swinging with her. That's a valid choice. Unless the two of them have had a conversation of "name every sex partner you've ever had", and false answers were given, there is no "Violation".

 

All that being said, the whole thing is surrounded in the larger universe of mixing vanilla and swinger circles. But that's a separate issue.

[VegasLee 1,486]

I guess I am lost here.

 

When as Swingers or even those that are not Swingers did it become our position in life to lead others lives for them?

 

What he does in his relationship is his business.

 

If he asks you to lie, that is different. You can tell him NO because then it effects you but until that time it is no ones business but his.

 

Way to much drama in this world today. If people paid half the attention to their own lives as they do others this would be a much different world we would be living in.

[shrevecouple 252]

You all have very valid points and I pretty much agree with 99% of what all you have said so far.

 

I am not close to this girl. My friend who is the wife of the couple (I am the female posting by the way. sorry I didn't clarify earlier!) is close to her and her and her husband are the ones who use to have 3 ways and 4 ways involving other females with him.

 

I agree it really isn't my place to tell. In the end whether their relationship lives or dies will not directly affect me. BUT I did tell my friend that if the girl ever came to me, with suspicious questions regarding him, I WILL NOT LIE! I am an open book and have nothing to hide. I will not volunteer the information without provocation but if asked directly I told her the best I could do for them was to redirect her to her BF or her. And you know anyone with a brain knows avoidance is usually a confirmation of something.

 

It's just weird situation to me that I feel I would handle differently if it was me in my friend's place and was curious if ya'll felt the same.

[Just Passing By 140]

What Lee said.

 

What is described is someone who is very adventurous and fun loving when they are single, and monogamous when in a relationship. This is not uncommon, there is nothing wrong or dishonorable with that. It would be between the two of them should they wish to discuss swinging themselves. Maliciously "outing" retired swingers to their vanilla friends would be the questionable action.

[Gordo 618]

While I wouldn't want to lie I also wouldn't want to out them. If someone asked an awkward question like that I would probably answer that I had never seen him having sex with anyone and couldn't possibly answer. That she should ask him any questions about his previous sex life.

 

Deflect, don't lie.

[shrevecouple 252]

Like I said, I have no intention of "maliciously outing" anyone. All I said was if she asked me directly I wouldn't lie. The likelihood of her coming to me is slim since our contact with her is usually only through our friends.

 

Actually he is questionable on his swinging status. He checks his profile daily and has been confirmed contact with another female through said profile. Just so happens my friend was contacted by a female about him because they had certed him and she wanted to know more. This female shared details about conversations they had that included things like "i know where we could meet and it has to be nsa, blah blah". Supposedly he didn't go through with it although my friend never confronted him about this.

 

It's one of those leopard don't ever change his spots things(is that the saying?). Of course that is also my opinion again.

 

I can say this, my friend is extremely loyal to him.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

In the end it's not up to the couple to tell but I certainly hope this guy had their permission before outing them. It's his secret to tell and IMO he needs to do so. To me it's in the same realm as if he was regularly hanging out with some ex-girlfriend. The new gf has a right to know.

 

As far as being a friend to someone and having a big secret, I think most of us do that. Certainly, most of my friends don't know some very big secrets about me.

[shrevecouple 252]

In the end it's not up to the couple to tell but I certainly hope this guy had their permission before outing them. It's his secret to tell and IMO he needs to do so. To me it's in the same realm as if he was regularly hanging out with some ex-girlfriend. The new gf has a right to know.

 

As far as being a friend to someone and having a big secret, I think most of us do that. Certainly, most of my friends don't know some very big secrets about me.

 

You pretty much summed up how I feel in that first paragraph. You put it in the proverbial "nutshell". Thanks!

 

Yes we certainly all have secrets of some kind. But there are times (like this one IMO) where telling is just the right thing to do. And yes he should be the one to do it. It's his relationship with her that is the main one that will suffer in the end.

 

Oh and by the way he did not have permission to tell about my friends' swinger status. She found out when the gf came out and asked her about it! And of course because we spend time with them as well me and my husband were asked about in that conversation. My friend still didn't out him (when i tell you she is loyal to this guy i mean it. LOL She informed me of it and she knew just like I did why he did it) she just answered the girls questions.

[Serendipity1975 15]

So here I am, the female side of the married couple who has the single male friend...and of course, every story has two sides so here is mine...

 

My male friend is the best friend of my husband (a 20+ year friendship). In the past we have had experiences together with single female friends. When my male friend became involved with his now girlfriend, the playing stopped and he agreed to be in a monogamous relationship with her (he wanted it that way and made the first move towards a relationship). She knows about his "promiscuous" past - she's no angel herself and tries to keep the past in the past. Being part of the downtown crowd, she hears a lot of things about him because he is quite the social butterfly and has the attention of many females (which can be very difficult for a new girlfriend to deal with when she doesn't know him or his past that well).

 

So, almost a year has gone by and it's no secret that he told her we are "swingers' - but, in fact, we have only had those experiences with him and 2 other females - no other "couples", ever. He has never denied to her his extensive sexual experiences - no details but she know he's been around the block a time or two.

 

My feeling is this - his girlfriend has become my friend and being that I am a good friend, I am loyal and will not betray anyone (meaning I will not sleep with him behind her back). Nor will he sleep with me - because he and I have had this very conversation. I feel if she were to know of our past, it might ruin an otherwise wonderful relationship with the future potential for marriage. He has made a decision to be monogamous, I am married to his best friend - I am no threat whatsoever to their relationship, but I don't think she would view it that way and considering this man and I have a business partnership also and are alone together several times each week, distrust would always be present.

 

As to the loyalty comment...yes, I am very loyal to him - as friends should be. He is a very important part of our lives friendship-wise and business-wise. He and my husband have a 20+ year friendship, he and I a 5 year friendship, he eats dinner at our house a few times a week, he's confided secrets in me and I to him, we have investment properties together, our children play together...I don't view loyalty as something bad. My loyalty to his gf is that I will not hurt her with information from the past nor will I hurt her by doing something behind her back in the future. My loyalty to the friend who started this post is that I would never reveal a secret she told me regardless of who asked me directly (and I would also take her to the ER and sit with her all night as she did with me lol). A secret is something someone places with you for a reason and trusts you to keep that information protected. I would simply say "I don't know." This is no one's secret to tell, allude to or anything else.

 

I'm curious as to who still thinks my friend's girlfriend has a right to know. They have both made it clear they have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy with regard to their pasts. She worked in Vegas for many years and has things she's not proud of, he has thing he's not proud of (they have both confided these things in me and I will not tell the other what was said). Can't it all be water under the bridge and instead of looking to the past, look toward the future? I don't think anyone would be made a fool of - a fool is a silly or stupid person who lacks judgment or sense, none of which is the case here.

[Serendipity1975 15]

I'd like to add one last thing...

 

When I invite my friends over on a Sunday afternoon to watch the game, I'm not thinking in terms of vanilla or swinger. I'm thinking in terms of friends...my swinger friends all know each other and if there is a new face in the crowd they will ask me if lifestyle talk is allowed or not. Half of my get-togethers have children attending and I would never act inappropriately in front of children. To say you can't mix the two is like saying swingers can't go to church and behave with the vanilla people. I'm a Christian myself and certainly know how to behave in church!

 

If I have a swinger only party, no vanillas are invited...otherwise it's just "a party" and everyone is welcome in my home.

[shrevecouple 252]

Would you rather risk a potential breakup or divorce? Secrets have their way of surfacing unintentionally.

[bbarnsworth 2,636]

What shrevecouple said. The secret will come out if they are together long enough, whether you want the secret to come out or not. A lie is a lie. His GF would very rightfully be upset that all three of you kept her in the dark. I think you're setting this up for a very bad situation.

 

Better; figure out a respectful, honest, pleasant way to inform her. Make it clear to her there is nothing going on and won't be anything going on.

[slevin 1,374]

It might be too late for that conversation now. Better late than never I suppose, but at this point it might be just as bad to do it now. I can't decide what I think on that.

 

On the subject of them having a don't ask, don't tell policy. I can't imagine being close enough to feel that we should get married, but not feel close enough to share all of my history and secrets with.

[WVaCPLforSluts 15]

Single Guy is not currently swinging , or as far as related here stepping out on Current GF . Seemingly Single Guy has made deliberate decision to be monogamous with Current GF, and seemingly to not pursue swinging with her. That's a valid choice. Unless the two of them have had a conversation of "name every sex partner you've ever had" , and false answers were given , there is no "Violation" .

 

All that being said, the whole thing is surrounded in the larger universe of mixing Vanilla and nonVanilla circles. But that's a separate issue.

 

I agree with this, however I can understand how she will be crushed if she finds out. It is not a good place either way.

[Miss_Piggy 98]

I fully agree that some secrets are meant to be kept. The risk I see here is that it sounds like quite a few people are 'in' on the secret of the past relationship. If only trustworthy people knew then I wouldn't see much of an issue with keeping it a secret (after all, it's in the past). With other people knowing, it seems inevitable that it'll come out (maybe innocently and accidentally) at some point.