Getting costs covered hosting house party?

[LovingTheLife 15]

I'm so glad I found this board! I never knew it existed!

 

We used to host private house parties several years ago before we had kids. It was just a few couples and very informal. Now that the kids are older and not as dependent on us, we can have them do sleepovers at Auntie's house or Gramma and Grampa's house. We would like to host larger scale house parties. I've read with interest (and doom) about the issues of undercovers coming in, the media, crappy neighbors, etc. About the issue of having to pay taxes on a business, create a private club, etc.

 

This is what we want to do in particular. Let me say up front that we do not plan on participating in the play. We want to have parties for 15-20 couples max. We want food costs covered, supplies covered (plates, cups, condoms, lube, sheets, towels, wipes, etc), maintenance fees covered (floor cleaning, laundry, etc.), and coming out a little above even would be wonderful. Hubby seems to think we would make a little more than a little over even, but I think otherwise. This is what we do not want to do - be a private club.

 

What we have to offer is 20+ acres of secluded property (some neighbors are about 1-2 acres away with foliage coverage), an indoor hot tub, pool table, massage table, stand up arcade games, a bar (no liquor), soft drinks, water, coffee, tea, mixers, condoms, lube, wipes, towels, lots of clean sheets, lockers, two showers (one in bathroom and one at hot tub), fully furnished with wood floors and carpet, large screen TV with XXX movies, a possible spanking table, interesting furniture that is good for playing, an open room, a private room downstairs with two beds, and a very private room upstairs. And food - lots of food.

 

Here is how we think things may go. People see our website on-line and make a purchase at our store (where we pay sales tax on the sale and they get an item). It would be condoms, toys, lube, movies, etc. They would have a "donation" price built in, but it wouldn't indicate that - it would just be a higher than normal price for an item. They would pay for it ahead of time (through PayPal which double checks identity, age, etc.) and we could ship the item out or they could pick it up. Purchase of said item (if "in stock" - if they are approved) would include an invitation to our "lifestyle social". The Social would be from 6-9 p.m. There would be food, socializing etc. much like an off-premise party. Then at 9 the "social" is over. If folks want to stay for party time, they can. If they meet somebody there they want to go elsewhere with or just want contact info etc. then they can leave. After people have left at 9, the doors will be locked and the "private party" party will begin. All attending either part will have to present their drivers license which we will copy and staple to a "survey" that asks basic info, getting to know you info, and "the fine print" stating that if you are cops/media/etc. that you are there on personal business, you're not offended by sex acts, nudity, etc. and hold us harmless, etc, and other legal jargon.

 

Our thinking on this is that nobody is paying the day of the party. Nobody is paying a "donation". They are buying a tangible product and only possibly picking it up at the free, invite-only party.

 

Thoughts???

[VANudistcpl 109]

After reading your desires perhaps you should consult an attorney to determine the possibility of starting your own business and the ordinances in your area about adult clubs. What it sounds like you want to start your own club.

 

If you want to cover the costs, when you invite people just ask for donations. Those that care will gladly give.

[PB&J 1,086]

You say you don't want to run a private club, or make a profit, but you seem to be thinking of it in terms as a business enterprise, which doesn't make sense unless you're hoping to benefit financially. If you aren't planning to play, what do you get out of the evening aside from some socializing and running around to make sure there's enough food/lube/towels/clean sheets? Why go through the very complicated ordering process you have described if? I'm no lawyer, and the laws are different here in Canada anyway, but I have a feeling that if the authorities got wind of this you could end up in some hot water, despite all the twists to the swinger path to your door. If you want to have parties, have parties. We do, and don't charge for them, because we like having parties. This isn't a private party you're describing. It's a club.

[MN Tom 251]

I'm with the others. In most of the USA, running a business as you are describing is illegal. And making the payments set up in a very trackable method as you describe isn't going to do you any good if/when the authorities come calling.

 

If you want to have costs covered for a party, just ask for donations. Some people may stiff you, but some will donate.

 

It's still borderline legality though, so keep that in mind.

 

We know of several hosts around here who have house parties that they charge for. One of them has a pool, one of them just has this amazing house setup. They've been doing it for years, but that doesn't mean it's legal by any means.

 

Don't expect to come out ahead on the money either, not unless you don't value your time. The ones I know that have very good-sized parties (house party with ~100 guests each at $15) still don't come out ahead. They spend a lot on setup, food, supplies. Plus they have to pay some people to help staff the place, and they spend days setting it up and cleaning up afterwards. So in the end they might end up with a few hundred dollars, but they spent many hours working for that. They are just happy they don't lose money at this point.

[VegasLee 1,486]

First thing to remember is you will be found out so be prepared for that. Once anyone finds out that does not like the idea of "sex" going on you will be in the press.

 

The old "over priced" item trick has been used for years and the courts/police/DA's all are very aware of it. It does not give you any legal standing at all in a courtroom if it ever comes to that.

 

99% of everyone that might come to your party is NOT going to let you make a copy of their drivers license and most of them will not agree to sign anything with their name on it.

 

From reading your post you seem to be trying to use all what I call "Internet attorney" idea's that have been floating around for years. Those are ideas that people post to try not to get busted for running a swingers party by people on the Internet that think they are smarter then the law. BTW, they don't work.

 

If you are not doing this for play you are doing it for pay. No use trying to hide that fact. There is nothing wrong with wanting to own a business.

 

This is just a very hard business to own in America today.

 

Consult a GOOD attorney and remember, someday you WILL be found out. Are you prepared to have your neighbors, friends and family know you are doing this?

[LovingTheLife 15]

Thank you all for responding. I think I need to clarify myself a little bit.

 

Most of our family already knows our lifestyle. Most of our friends are in the lifestyle. I had been selling Pure Romance sex toys etc for years and had been taking the profit from that to be able to enjoy the lifestyle and have smaller house parties. I am no longer selling those toys because they are getting too costly for me to purchase when you can buy the same thing elsewhere for just about my cost. So now what we would like to have is our costs covered and are trying to figure out a way to do that.

 

At some of the larger hotel parties that we have been to in MI (that are full of "tourists", gawkers, and cliques, btw) they require you to fill out paperwork with your name on it, address, DOB, DL, etc. and they also require a copy of your DL. Even some house parties that we have been to that are now not around required a DL copy.

 

As far as not being able to party, we don't want to do that and give the opportunity to be busted for "prostitution" in any way. We see it as an interview of sorts. We get to socialize with many people and then if a couple sparks our interest, then we can invite them over for a "date" at a later time. And as far as setting up and clean up - how does it take days? Unless you have completely rude friends that trash your house how is that possible? Many of our friends stay and help clean up and just about all of them clean up as they go (i.e. not leaving cups, plates, condoms, dirty towels, etc. all over the place).

 

I do know how difficult it is to run a party. It is time consuming - set up, take down, returning calls, returning emails, etc. - but not any more than we would spend on crappy sites like AFF where you try to hook up with new friends that are only interested in chatting or aren't even real people, paying the expensive site fees, etc.

 

I also know how difficult it is running *ANY* business in America nowadays. But you're all forgetting one important thing: to some people, and to most, it is about relationships and friends help friends out. My husband is in the construction trade and has gotten A LOT of work through lifestylers we have met. So we use this time spent to make new friends and get lots of work out of it for our "vanilla life". Time spent for parties is nothing compared to advertising in a bad work economy. So for my husband, he'd rather work at our parties than go door to door and give estimate after estimate that doesn't result in any work.

 

We have tried talking to lifestyle friendly attorneys about this and we get "don't waste your time" and "you won't make any money at this, so why bother". We found out in the process that these attorneys also represent the BIG clubs in MI. Hmmm. We just want to provide a place that you don't have to drive 1-2 hours to a club where the people are in cliques, are not really into the lifestyle, etc.

 

We miss our regular club that closed because the owner was dying of cancer. We haven't found many house parties that meet our needs. Not parties that require you to be young and Ken and Barbie. So we want to provide that.

 

So - what sort of REAL advice can anybody give me besides "seems like you're trying to make money"? What we really want to do is make new friends and connections, but not have to pay for it all out of our pocket. If it means we have to open a private club, then how do we do that?

[LovingTheLife 15]

Oh, and for those of you that answered previously, thank you. I'm just trying to get some answers on how to do this and not get nailed for something. We do have our children to think about and want to have little risk as possible.

[shrevecouple 252]

IMO your not gonna find anyone more experienced in this topic than VegasLee. I agree with him, you need to be prepared with being vilified. It doesn't matter if there isn't anything illegal for them to pin on you the chances of you being outted is extremely high.

 

My only suggestions would be to keep it small or word of mouth from your already established friends. Talk to your friends and tell them it's ok to invite people that they know that may not know you. Make it a potluck kind of setup. Tell people they are welcome (but not required) to bring snacks, food, appetizers and any other supplies to help with the cause. I have never thrown a swinger party but it always works with my vanilla parties. I don't think it's wrong to ask everyone to chip in. Advertise a party on swinglifestyle. They can request an invite and it's your discretion to accept or not. That may be away to add more new people in the mix as well.

[swing.kidz 367]

If you want to throw a party...throw a party.

 

If you don't want to pay for the party...don't throw the party.

 

It really is as simple as that. People who throw parties generally eat the cost of the party, because parties aren't seen as profit generating ventures. As you said it, they are used to meet people and build relationships, so don't bilk the relationship building enterprise for profits.

 

Once you start instituting a formal method of payment (when someone orders a product, they always get an invite, for example) it starts losing the "party" label and becomes something else, something that is hard to legally separate from private business and you start to become liable for the business's activities.

 

You can throw the party with several other people you know, and that may alleviate the overall cost to you...or you can do the "ask for donation" method, but I would suspect most guests would expect you to keep the requested donation as low as possible, so you're just breaking even on costs...plus, if you do take "donations" you would want to probably keep records of your costs and receivables to justify the donations as just that.

 

If you see this as a marketing strategy for your husband's business, then unofficially consider the cost of the party as part of your advertising budget...haha (although, I don't think your accountant would reconcile that...ha).

 

Treat this as any vanilla get together...would you charge for a Sunday BBQ at your house? Of course not. What happens if you did charge for the Sunday BBQ? You would be liable as a normal restaurant and business, depending on local ordinances and health codes and your customers would treat you as such.

[VegasLee 1,486]

LovingTheLife,

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with you making money at this. I hope you become rich.

 

I do believe you are not really looking for advice though.

 

You were given REAL advice by many then come back and say you don't like that advice and want REAL advice.

 

Just because it is not what you wanted to hear does not mean it is not real.

 

We just spent 30 months court and $121,000 to prove we did nothing wrong in this Lifestyle. Believe me, I have a clue what I am talking about after 30+ years and way too many times standing in front of a judge.

[rainbowskye 102]

I agree with Vegas Lee.

 

I once knew of someone who did something similar and they had this as a moving party. It would be in warehouses, hotels whatever. That didn't last long before they were busted.

 

Many people who attend parties aren't expecting to pay a fee or provide a copy of a drivers license to attend. If they want to pay a fee, or even provide their drivers license, they would join a private club.

 

There is a sense of security knowing you have provided your identification to a company versus an individual. As it relates to identity theft.

 

As a person who loves events, I would be more comfortable providing my personal information to a local company verses an individual running a pay to attend house party.

 

If Having such of an event as you have described is what you want to do, then you should do it the legal way with the proper business licenses and so on to do so.

 

And here is a side note undercover agents can attend, and you may not know they are undercover, regardless of what form you ask them to fill out and whatever they experience, witness or see can be used against you.

 

If this is something you really want to do, and something you are head strong about doing it, be legit with it and CYA from the beginning instead of being sneaky about it.

 

It doesn't sound like you are trying to have costs covered to have a house party, it sounds like you want to profit by the house party. The only way to do with without finding yourself in court going through litigation is to do it the legit way.

 

If you have consulted an attorney and they have advised you against it, regardless of their other clients, they are probably advising you correctly.

[celtic239 297]

I agree with Vegas Lee - either you're in it for the play or the pay. If you truly don't want the Sheriff's office to send in U/C's (undercover cops) then don't attract a lot of attention to the house party. I understand that most people get into trouble when they start to advertise on the internet. Secondly when we invite people to our house just for a vanilla party we don't ask for a donation at the door. They are our guests and as such, will be treated as such. If you are short on cash and don't have the means to pay for the amenities then ask your friends to bring over a dish of food or soft drinks as part of the get together. If you fear reprisals from the authorities the chances of that happening may well depend on what part of the state you live in. I doubt if the Wayne County Prosecutor's Office is going to waste its assets going after someone that occasionally throws a sex party in their home, however if you live say in Ingham County or closer to the U-P it may be a different story.

[LovingTheLife 15]

Thank you all for your input. It has given us something to think about for sure. Putting our kids at risk for anything is for sure not something we want to do.

 

I doubt if the Wayne County Prosecutor's Office is going to waste its assets going after someone that occasionally throws a sex party in their home, however if you live say in Ingham County or closer to the U-P it may be a different story.

 

Yes - the county we live in has ONE adult bookstore. They said no to a Hooters and there are no strip joints or really any dance clubs that I can think of (pool halls/bars, yes, clubs, no).

 

Again, thank you for your input.

 

If we did want to try to start a private club, what would the first step be?

[Ed & Bunny 160]

 

If we did want to try to start a private club, what would the first step be?

 

The first thing I would do is read all the articles in the "Swingers in the news" section here on the forum. Swingers make the news by making big mistakes. Learn from others mistakes, rather than making them on your own.

 

After that hire a lawyer who is familiar with this type of law and listen to and follow their advice.

 

Does doing both of the above keep you completely safe? No. As Vegas Lee can attest to, you can follow the law perfectly and still end up in front of a judge.

 

Lastly, if you choose to open a club be prepared to be completely outed about your lifestyle. All it takes is one news report and everyone will know. And we all know sex sells so the chance of finding your names in the paper are pretty good.