Need Guidance: Friend and Girlfriend approached Husband not Wife

[dizzilizz 15]

Hi, New Here. Been reading some of the posts and everyone seems really helpful here, so I'm hoping I can get some insight into a situation that has just arisen this past week. Background: My husband and I have had a couple of threesomes, a swap and gone to a couple of parties. No problems...we both agree that we do it together or not at all. So far so good.

 

However, this past week my husbands friend (whom I've met) and girlfriend (whom I've never met) approached my husband about having him join both of them without me. Both know that he's in a relationship with me yet they still only invited him. My husband proceeded to let them know that it was a no go unless I was involved...basically we don't play alone. It was mentioned that the girlfriend was not comfortable with her boyfriend with other women (they usually do only other men), but then proceeded to invite me when they realized that my husband and I don't do solo.

 

As it didn't really surprise me that they asked my husband about this, it does offend me that they weren't willing to have me included knowing full well that we're in a relationship together. I must admit that I'm angry about that and also that I'm hurt and upset that they originally didn't want me included. Also the part about her being uncomfortable with her boyfriend being with another woman also bothers me.

 

Now because of my hurt feelings and being a bit angry at them, I seem to be the one causing problems because I'm not comfortable with this situation and personally hurt by it. Because of my feelings I'm the one being the killjoy...like I'm letting everyone down even though they didn't want me there in the first place (except for my husband). This is causing some friction between my husband and I. He says he understands and doesn't want to put me in a position that will cause problems and confusion. But he still seems angry and upset at my feelings in this. He has even defended their position as to why they would consider not including me. Personally this is something I would never do to someone else. I would invite either a single person or a couple...never just one married partner, so I don't understand how they could ask my husband to do this...and to go behind my back and not let me know about it. Yet my husband seems upset that I can't understand their point of view.

 

This whole situation has caused me a great deal of stress. Am I wrong to be feeling this way? Should I be understanding of their initial request and be able to "just get over it" and be able to join in without worrying about being the odd man out and if they really want me there at all? I really don't want to be the bad guy in this situation and have everyone angry at me...but I just can't seem to get over these feelings of hurt and deception.

[MN Tom 251]

Well, its a bit hard to tell this exactly from just your viewpoint. Im guessing it could have been viewed quite differently from your hubby or his friends.

 

Here's a more positive potential viewing of what went down :

 

Hubby's friends asked him to play. Simple question. They weren't meaning to insult you, they wanted to ask him and see how he responded. When he said you guys play together, they offered to have you go too. No offense planned, no disrespect. Just a question.

 

With that said, I would actually suggest that you all get together to talk and meet each other. Part of the struggle for this I believe is that you've never met the other gal. So now you are feeling that the other gal is calling the shots and is requesting you to not be there, when in fact she's scared of other women being present and is just hoping that she can just have her fun without dealing with that fear.

[lustylearning 705]

It may be that your husband's friend and girlfriend wanted to have an MFM with a man that your husband's friend trusts and is comfortable with. Maybe they haven't pulled off some sexual fantasy of their own, MFM wise, because their third parties just haven't had something your husband does. If that's the case, there's no slight against you. You may not want it to happen, because you feel it goes against a boundary, but it's not personal.

[slevin 1,374]

I can understand why you'd be upset that they would approach your husband and ask him to meet them on his own. Not knowing much else about how that went down. This is especially understandable when viewed through your personal experience of only swinging together as a couple and not looking to play separately.

 

I can say that, without knowing more about how it went down, some couples do play separately. It is possible that they simply reached out to your husband to see if you guys do play separately or not. Since this is your husbands friend it makes sense that they asked him directly.

 

Now, if you're not comfortable with him playing solo then there is nothing wrong with you guys turning them down. If you're not comfortable with being invited after the fact, then there is nothing wrong with turning them down.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

...... However, this past week my husbands friend (whom I've met) and girlfriend (whom I've never met) ......

 

If you haven't talked to them directly about this issue, then you are getting second-hand information. That's not to say your husband could be misrepresenting what was said, it's just that most of the time things get lost in translation.

 

If you want to settle this, the four of you will have to talk together about the situation. If indeed they wanted to meet with him alone, then let them know in a calm and rational voice why that concerns you and how it made you feel.

If it wasn't their intention to go behind your back, then proceed as you wish with the information you've gained.

 

Complicated and stressful situations have a way of becoming less so when everyone is talking and not communicating through a middle person.

 

Best of luck to all of you. Swinging should be fun, not stressful.

[georgeo 15]

Hi,

It's perfectly normal to feel a bit upset when you don't get invited along, (Ive seen both sides of that one) but don't let the situation get to you, as others have said there may be many reasons for this.

 

At the end of the day whats important is the arrangements you share with your husband, and don,t be too offended when occasions like this occur, because your going to find other situations that either you or your husband won't want to participate in. So from my perspective, don't concentrate too much on feeling upset about it and move on to the activities your both comfortable with.

[ALilOEverything 901]

Having been in this situation a couples times I found my reaction to be dependant on how it was approached. I feel completely okay when asked "do you two ever play seperately" verses "can your husband play without you". I'm not sure why it is but the latter approach has made me feel rejected too. Maybe it's because I don't mind being asked our preferences or rules but being presented a situation where they don't want me to be a part of it just doesn't feel very good.

 

Try to not let it bother you too much. It's obviously not a match and they need to move to the next couple/single who better suits the situation they seek.

[Gordo 618]

I can understand how you feel about this but it could also be a "bad communication" situation where something got left out. Friends tend to be a little more casual in their communication as opposed to someone you just met.

 

Nevertheless it has left you uncomfortable and your husband should respect that and back off.

[Dont.Stop 339]

You know, everyone has their preferences. Maybe they only wanted a male. Maybe they don't feel the same attraction to you. I personally find it uncomfortable to ask someone who is attached if they play separate, but that is my personal feeling and apparently not theirs.

 

But if I were to ask, I'd probably do it the same way. Ask the person we were interested in if their spouse would allow it. And if not, that's the end of it. Since they obviously prefer MFM, I don't see much of a big deal (but I'm not a woman, so excuse my flawed point of view).

 

I think it's just easier to say "No thanks, we only play together" and move on than to get upset. Some couples play separate. We do on occasion. How do you find out if a particular couple does? Well, you ask.

 

And there is that comfort in having that third person who is already married. Less chance of someone trying to wreck things, get attached, etc. They have as much at stake as the couple inviting him in.

[dizzilizz 15]

Hi everyone! Just been through a relationship ordeal which started with a swinging proposition. Not quite sure what to make of this all and feeling that perhaps we should put the swinging on hold...however I'm afraid this would push him away.

 

Okay...let me start at the beginning...will be a long involved tale...sorry!

 

My "husband" and I are not legally married...have not had a marriage ceremony...but we have been living together with our 4 children for 20 years and consider each other husband and wife. Quite a few years ago we had our first threesome with another girl, then again with the same girl. We visited a club and had a situation that ended badly and have since not had any other swinging experiences. However we are still both open to the lifestyle and hope to have other experiences.

 

3 years ago I had our 4th child and have since been very busy taking care of him and very tired. He's quite an energy ball! A couple of months ago I just started to feel like myself again and my husband and I have gone on a couple of dates with one another. My first time getting out of the house in the last 3 years. He however has continued to go out with his friends and enjoy himself. Which is where this whole situation started.

 

He was at his friends house one night with his friend and his friends girlfriend when they both propositioned ONLY my husband to join them in a threesome. He calmly let them know that he did not do that without me. Including me however was not something the girl (I'll call her Kay) Kay was not quite comfortable with. All of this was told to me by my husband. I had issues with this, since I was left out of the whole proposition. So basically this was a no go for me. Didn't want any drama...and wasn't comfortable with the whole situation. So we said no. This should have ended the whole thing right there...however events occurred that spurred this further.

 

Few weeks later my husbands friend and his girlfriend Kay broke up. Kay was left in quite a situation, as my husbands friend left her with unpaid rent and possible eviction. My husband being worried about her and the whole situation asked me to call her to see if she was doing okay. BACKSTORY ON THIS...Kay is originally from the same small town I was from (small world) but I didn't know her. We met briefly once and that was it. I do know that my husband had a bit of a little crush on her because of the way he talked about her and the way he acted when talking about her. Not something that bothered me at first. ANYWAY...I obliged my husband's wish and called her. She thanked me for our concern and let me know she was okay. This started our facebook friendship.

 

After that call, my husband continued this friendship with her via e-mails (which I have never seen or read but only been told about) and private phone calls. He was pushing me into all of us going out together with the hopes of having a threesome with her. I however was somewhat uncomfortable with the idea of a threesome due to the fact that I barely knew her. So I agreed on all of us going out together. We had a fun time and enjoyed ourselves...however there were certain things that bothered me about our "date" out together. He always sat closer to her and seemed to pay more attention to her. This did not make me feel so great but I tried to brush it off.

 

Now...after this "date" in which we all had fun, I could tell that my husband was disappointed that things didn't go further. He kept pushing at me and asking when we could go out again. I know at this point that he's still hoping for a threesome...and I'm thinking it's still a possibility...however the original proposition that she gave to my husband which excluded me is still hanging over my head. Just can't seem to get past that. I know my husband see's my reluctance because now he's starting to tell me things such as "he doesn't want to lie to me" and that I'm "being an obstacle." These comments sent me over the edge. Did nothing to help me...but made me wonder what was really going on. Now I'm worried.

 

A couple of nights later my husband left to go over to Kay's house without inviting me. He was gone for 3 hours and tried to sneak back into the house. When I asked where he had been he skirted the question by telling me he thought I would be asleep. Now my brain and emotions are racing.

 

Guess I'll try to shorten the story a bit...since that night where he claims nothing happened he has been sending this girl Kay sex e-mails and still talking to her on the phone. All the while I'm trying to deal with this situation and my emotions. I keep telling him I want to be involved...as has always been the case...but I'm left in the dark on these "conversations" between the two of them. Other things were said that hurt me deeply...such as he wanted to go out together again because he wanted to spend time with HER. And other things as well.

 

Eventually it came down to me asking Kay point blank if she had sex with him. She answered a big fat NO! and I continued to converse with her by e-mailing her my whole emotional mess of the situation. Since then she has stopped talking to my husband. Which he seems a bit depressed and angry about. I'm trying my best to deal with this situation.

 

My husband has even finally admitted that had he had the chance he would have Cheated on me!

 

This admission has left me spinning! Dealing with many emotions, and more! It has even caused health issues. However I am working to do the best I can to fix this. But I worry that perhaps if we continue with the swinging at this moment that other situations like this might arise. Am I worrying too much? If I put the swinging on hold to help heal whatever is broken between us I'm afraid this will push him away further. After all it seems as if that is what caused this whole situation to begin with.

 

Any insights any of you might have will be greatly appreciated!

[DigginIt 1,132]

Wow, this is a very sad story and I don't think the outlook is good. You asked for some insights and I believe that your instincts are almost always right.

 

Thoughts:

 

You are married...don't doubt that in your mind. You seem to doubt that fact and you shouldn't.

 

You said that your husband's friend and his girlfriend Kay propositioned your husband but he said 'no' - I have doubts here. They break up a bit later and your husband is concerned about 'her' and not his friend. This makes bells go off in my head.

 

He goes over to Kay's house without telling you...you believed he cheated and confronted him indirectly and Kay directly. Add up the evidence, sex emails, private calls and a visit to her house. I believe he absolutely is/has cheated on you.

 

He pretty much has betrayed your trust and has no respect for you by making you feel so guilty that YOU are afraid of pushing him away. How nice it is for him.

 

If he hasn't cheated but has that thought in his mind that had the opportunity presented itself he would have...that's just messed up.

 

It's not the swinging that is the issue...the issue is he has become selfish. I don't think he's swinging. Swinging is something you do together. It's a shared experience that gives you both something as a couple. What it sounds like to me was that he was cheating in front of you. What makes the difference? Selfishness vs. Selflessness.

 

Those are my thoughts. I wish you the best and hope the two of you can work things out if that's what you want to do.

[tribbles 490]

On the bright side...he told you the truth. Instead of acting like you wish he didn't tell you...ask him why? Learn more about him. He is your best friend, right? What is he going through to feel like he would have cheated? Ask him how he thinks he would feel if he did cheat?

 

Get a clue...he did not do the 3sum when he could have. He didn't actually cheat. If he says he loves you, he does. Being strongly attracted to someone else is not uncommon.

 

Don't let it freak you out and break up a good 20 yrs.

You are in SD? PM me if you want the name of a counselor I knew there years ago and was, at the time, the best I ever met.

[km34 672]

Get a clue...he did not do the 3sum when he could have. He didn't actually cheat.

 

I think that depends on your definition of cheating. My husband is free to have sex with whomever he wants, but if he doesn't tell me about it before, during, or after, it's cheating. Her husband may not have physically cheated, but there is such a thing as emotionally cheating that has nothing to do with sex. By hiding his true intentions and feelings from her, in my opinion, he cheated.

 

I think it's fantastic that Kay has acted responsibly and stopped things when she found out that you weren't comfortable with it. Why didn't your husband do that?

 

If I were in your shoes, I would definitely put swinging on hold until you figure out what's going on. Take some time, see a counselor if you can, and makes sure you two are on the same page before trying ANYTHING again.

[TheRedHalf 81]

My husband has even finally admitted that had he had the chance he would have Cheated on me!

 

Hi Dizzilizz,

 

First let me say that this doesn't sound like swinging to me at all and I'm approaching the situation from that angle...

 

This is a tough situation. It sounds like he's using this as a threat to pressure you and that's a terrible thing to do to another person. The advice you've received so far is good but I'd like to offer another perspective.

 

Here's something from a reading I found. This particular writing is from an article on Buddhism but I think we can all learn a lot from it.

 

The second truth is that suffering is caused by craving and aversion. We will suffer if we expect other people to conform to our expectation, if we want others to like us, if we do not get something we want,etc. In other words, getting what you want does not guarantee happiness. Rather than constantly struggling to get what you want, try to modify your wanting. Wanting deprives us of contentment and happiness.

 

You can't make him want to not cheat on you. He will have to decide that on his own. He will have to recognize that you, your children together and the love you've had for 20 years is worth it. You may have to be the stronger one and give him the freedom he thinks he needs.

 

I realize this is unconventional thinking but my wife an I have been through a similar time in our 22 years together. She spent months worrying and finally told me that I had to make my own choices. She didn't promise to stay with me but gave me the space and the time to make the right choice. We're one of those strange couples who's been together since high school and never cheated on one another (not that the thought hasn't come up).

 

Communication is key as well as being calm and direct. Let him know that you love him and what your needs are and that he needs to make a decision on what he really wants.

 

Above all don't let him pressure you into anything you don't feel comfortable doing.

 

Good luck!

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I would definitely put swinging on hold for a while. You guys need to focus on your relationship together. You said that only recently you've finally started getting out of the house again after baby #4. Continue with that.

 

Cheating is a symptom of something else. In this case, I'm guessing that cheating is a symptom of him feeling ignored or not getting enough attention. The baby (and the other 3 kids) have taken you away from him more than he's had to deal with in the past. It's time to get a sitter and start giving him the attention he's craving.

[Lionheart72 2,191]

My $.02 for whatever it's worth...

 

You huband obviously had romantic feelings towards Kay. He clear wanted to have a physical relationship with her. It may be, as JustAskJulie says, that he is feeling a lack of something in his relationship with you... or it may simply be that he is feeling that indefinable chemical reaction one feels when they find someone they are attracted to. It doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't still care for you, feel romantically toward you or want to be with you. Taking him at his word, he didn't cheat and he is still with you. He wanted to. Perhaps he still wants to, but he didn't. That's worth something.

 

You need to talk with him. Obviously, there are issues in your relationship that need to be resolved. Perhaps a couples counselor would be helpful for you, perhaps not, depends what works for you... but you need to talk to him.

 

You've been together 20 years. You have 4 kids. You've obviously gotten through rough patches before. I think you can get through this one too.