No single males? Why not??

[Perseus 16]

Quote

Originally posted by thump29

Until recently we had considered single males up until I decided to give one a chance and he was a jerk. After that experience I do not really know whether we would consider another single male. I do happen to think there are some decent single males in this lifestyle and they do deserve a chance, but you have to understand that it is guys like the one we included that hurt the single males reputation.

 

Hmm... But if you had had a bad experience with a couple or single girl because they were flakey or jerky, they wouldn't hurt the reputation of couples or women? I understand what Bob has been saying all along, he just pushes buttons to hard.

 

I have been around some couples I wouldn't swing with because of their personality just like I have dated women I would never go near again... *shrug*

[BettyAnnMBSC 24]

So yes I would say women like women more than men on all levels accept they need a man to make sperm for them and they can get men to pay for them and die to protect them and stuff, things they probably couldn't get a woman to do for them.

 

It's a fairly reasoned argument but the fallacy of this argument is this:

 

1) it assumes that women want or need "sperm"

2) it assumes that sex is the only way to get it.

 

Both assumptions are flawed. It is obvious that some women do not wish to have children and further, some women can't get pregnant -- do you propose that these women have lost 50% desire for men on that count.

 

There exist any number of ways to get pregnant that do not involve sex with a man. This is the 21st century -- there are options to sex. That then dispells the idea that a man as "sperm donor" is terminally faulted.

 

On the other debate -- the later part of the 20th century and this first part of the 21st clearly give us examples of women willing to "die for" what they believe in. History gives us numerous examples of women willing to die for both their husband and children. Unless you want me to provide examples from history, then your argument on that count is terminally faulted to. Remember that St. Joan d'Arc was a woman willing to fight and die for what she believed in and that the casualty list of our recent war with Iraq includes women as well as men. Women are clearly prepared to pay the price

 

Further: there are far too many recent examples of same-sex comiited relationships to argue that a women wouldn't be willing to bring home the bacon -- even without our recent change in social acceptance of FF coupled families -- there are historical examples of women that provided all subsitence for their family without the aid of a man. Men then are not needed for breadwinning as much as some men would like to believe.

 

So, I think we can say with some rationality that the reason some couples don't invite men is not:

1) because men are only good as sperm donors - there are alternatives.

2) because women won't serve a protector role - they clearly will.

3) because women won't play the provider role - they do it every day.

 

Then what we have done here is establish a few reasons that are not why some couples don't invite single men but, we've yet to determine the original point of question -- why do some couples not invite single men? We can't debate the topic if we bring into the debate an annonymous authority.

 

While I concede that I have used an appeal to popularity motive and a style over substance argument (in this post) in some posts here -- the appeal to pity is not a valid introduction into this discussion.

 

If I didn't know better -- I'd think that you had gotten a list of logical fallacies and are attempting to present one of each into this debate. We're not going to take on attacks on the presenter next are we? That's be sad....

 

Let's explore this idea ad nauseum -- "why do some couple not invite single men to play?" -- the real why -- not the self agrandizing why.

 

Or has it been covered in the other posts to completion?

[BettyAnnMBSC 24]

Hmm... But if you had had a bad experience with a couple or single girl because they were flakey or jerky, they wouldn't hurt the reputation of couples or women? I understand what Bob has been saying all along, he just pushes buttons to hard.

 

We'd probably define the specifics of what we didn't like about that single female or the couple and not apply an overgeneralization. At least not based on a single experience. If we met several single girls and every one was a jerky flake -- you don't think we'd probably decide that this part of the lifestyle wasn't for us? Of course we would - after a few, we'd assume that "they're all nuts"

 

We would let a single experience direct us in decisions though -- we once got involved with a couple that had serious legal issues in the works. He was on probation for something he said he didn't do. They were overly stressed both emotionally and financially.

 

Would we think twice about getting involved with another couple in that same situation -- yep, we would.

 

Does that mean we discriminate against people on probation -- well if you want to call it that -- but we're allowed to set our own standards. Just as some people don't want to see us because of his or my age.

 

None of this answers the question of "why couples don't invite singles..." though -- it simply addresses some reasons why those reasons may be faulty. We can't find fault with the reasons before we define them can we?

 

[Perseus 16]

Quote

Originally posted by BettyAnnMBSC

We'd probably define the specifics of what we didn't like about that single female or the couple and not apply an overgeneralization. At least not based on a single experience. If we met several single girls and every one was a jerky flake -- you don't think we'd probably decide that this part of the lifestyle wasn't for us? Of course we would - after a few, we'd assume that "they're all nuts"

 

 

If I thought like that about women, I would have given them up a long time ago!!!!

 

That said though, you are right, you let you past guide your decisions..

 

Quote

None of this answers the question of "why couples don't invite singles..." though -- it simply addresses some reasons why those reasons may be faulty. We can't find fault with the reasons before we define them can we?

 

 

As to reasons, I think there are many reasons for couples to be looking for couples and bi women, but not single men. I can list them if you like, but I am sure you know them by now... Are they good or bad reasons? No, they are what they have agreed too and that is one of the basic tenets of swinging. More power to them.

 

I just hope they keep a small shade of optimism that guys like me are really out there.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Quote

Originally posted by Bob123

I think it says no single males cause most of the things for couples are really for women. Men love women so much more than women love men

 

Men love women so much more than women love men. Very good point.....hope you get some when your wife reads this...

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by Perseus

Hmm... But if you had had a bad experience with a couple or single girl because they were flakey or jerky, they wouldn't hurt the reputation of couples or women? I understand what Bob has been saying all along, he just pushes buttons to hard.

 

I have been around some couples I wouldn't swing with because of thier personallity just like I have dated women I would never go near again... *shrug*

Whew! Hasn't this been an active thread tonight.

 

Perseus, I understand what you are saying. We have had a bad experience with a couple, never had one with a single girl (can't find one) and no it didn't taint couples. Why? Because bad couples aren't lurking around every corner (In our experience so far). Bad experiences with *supposedly* single men (you can never be sure) on the other hand are. Quite often they are cheaters or arm chair masturbationists, looking for an easy lay, and disrespectful of a couples relationship.

 

We have met with couples, somewhere in the area of 20 or 30 paired couples. We only sexually connected with a small hand full. Of those 20 to 30 couples only two misrepresented themselves. Now mind you I said actually met with, not just exchanged e-mail with. We have probably exchanged e-mail with roughly a 100 or better, over the course of a year. When we did not have e-mail capability blocked from single males, we probably received roughly 300 e-mails or so in less than a week from single males. I don't think I need to express the type of e-mails they sent, I'm sure everyone can figure it out for themselves. Of that 300, maybe three had something that made us pay attention.

 

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to do the math.

 

100 couples in one year = A dozen or so bad ones

300 single men in one week = three good ones

 

I have my instant messaging systems set on invisible for yahoo and my AIM account set where that if I don't have a name personally added to the list of friends, they can't see me period. Why? Single men, married cheaters, sex hounds.

 

That is WHY we don't care to be contacted by single men. If we want one, for sex, we will find them in avenues such as this board. There are a few single men on this site that we would not mind traveling the distance to meet, if only for nothing more than dinner. There are a few single men on this site that are a good representation of what we like in couples. There are a LOT of single men that have come through on this board that are as disgusting as the ones that contacted us in that 'one week' or via messaging services that we would NEVER want to meet.

 

A good case in point that you can find right here on this board is the Personals and Traveling Swingers forums. Take a stroll through them. How many are *single* men, vs. single women or couples? The mass majority are single men and of that majority you will see that they only ever posted one time. Read the content of their posts.... Enough said.

 

That is why we (OhioCouple) don't see single men in the lifestyle in a favorable light.

[OhioCouple 40]

I would also like to add that I have had the personal pleasure of chatting privately with several of the single guys on this board. One of them for well over a year. Some even have my personal e-mail address, my home phone and even my physical address and I don't give that out freely to even couples.

 

So I don't discriminate against single men, I just have a sour taste for single dweebs and couples that are dweebs.

 

(Is dweeb a word?)

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Quote

 

Mrs. O said,

 

That is why we (OhioCouple) don't see single men in the lifestyle in a favorable light.

 

 

A favorable light? Just curious as I am a single male in the lifestyle. My political beliefs cannot account for the fact that you know single males are a part of this board.

 

Julie runs the board and she has stated many times that singles are welcome and a big part of the lifestyle.

 

Who do you put in a favorite light? It obviously is based on marital status huh?

 

Hey lets face it we are in an unfavorable light. I guess I am not welcome here. I spent a lot of time talking to Roxy last night, but now I see her point. I cannot take the insults and I am sure that was a factor in the post....you win. I choose not to fight. But I would never publisize it based on category.....I wouldn't say "I won't swing with an Ohio female that insults me".

 

I would never insinuate that just because you are so irrational that doesn't make you appealing to the good of the board.

 

I sure wish I had the power to just say who and who is not in a favorable light? Id be the site owner Huh?

 

Mrs. O, this is not a couples board. Does anyone else think it is?

 

If you would (and obviously do) want to change the board to couples then do so. Talk to Julie, but don't just keep insulting singles...your rudeness is showing...and believe me that's worse than your titties in a church, and all I can say is JAYSUS....and amen.

 

Why attack singles. We really don't care that you have someone ,well I guess I care, because I am glad you are not single. Sometimes I am sure you hubby has to take your biting words instead of us.

 

Lots of people may care to partake. I think it is unfair to them that you feel such a need to display your animosity toward us. As a single many couples are actually interested in me. I would like to take this opportunity to say I have never been with MRS. O or hubby, so regardless of their opinions I have never had sex with them nor never would contemplate it. That is one for sure NO WAY JOSE....lol

 

Put a plug in it O

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by OhioCouple

That is why we (OhioCouple) don't see single men in the lifestyle in a favorable light.

Let me re-phrase this statement.

 

"That is why we (OhioCouple) don't see 'MOST' single men in the lifestyle in a favorable light. "

 

Now is that better, John? I missed one word. Excuse me. And if you read my post in it's entirety it does not CAST ALL SINGLE MEN IN THE SAME CATAGORY.

 

HENCE:

There are a few single men on this site that we would not mind traveling the distance to meet, if only for nothing more than dinner. There are a few single men on this site that are a good representation of what we like in couples.

So I don't discriminate against single men, I just have a sour taste for single dweebs and couples that are dweebs.

Now just where are those comments insinuating that we have a displeasure for all single men? In both of the above comments the word singles are used with the word couples.

 

We choose all of our relationships, swinging or non based on a variety of interests and aspects. We don't happen to be interested in people that only want to exchange pictures and talk cheap sex. We aren't interested in those that want to 'play' rough. We aren't interested in those that can't hold a decent conversation or like to kick dogs or put cat's in a metal trash can to hear them wail. We aren't interested in those kind of people and they come in singles and couples alike. I am sure there is someone out there for those kind of people, we just aren't them.

 

Digest the entire posting the next time before you choose one sentence.

 

Marital status has no bearing, the person who shares our common interests does.

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN

Hey lets face it we are in an unfavorable light. I guess I am not welcome here. I spent a lot of time talking to Roxy last night, but now I see her point. I cannot take the insults and I am sure that was a factor in the post....you win. I choose not to fight.

There is nothing here to be won or lost, John. The original question of this thread was:

 

No single males? Why not?. I answered it based on our experience and you didn't like the response. You chose to go way out in left field with it, for reasons that don't concern this thread.

 

So, to add to my previous assessment of how we choose our relationships, swinging or non, ATTITUDE plays a major part in it.

[Bob123 15]

Quote

Originally posted by BettyAnnMBSC

It's a fairly reasoned argument but the fallacy of this argument is this:

 

1) it assumes that women want or need "sperm"

2) it assumes that sex is the only way to get it.

 

Both assumptions are flawed. It is obvious that some women do not wish to have children and further, some women can't get pregnant -- do you propose that these women have lost 50% desire for men on that count.

 

There exist any number of ways to get pregnant that do not involve sex with a man. This is the 21st century -- there are options to sex. That then dispels the idea that a man as "sperm donor" is terminally faulted.

 

On the other debate -- the later part of the 20th century and this first part of the 21st clearly give us examples of women willing to "die for" what they believe in. History gives us numerous examples of women willing to die for both their husband and children. Unless you want me to provide examples from history, then your argument on that count is terminally faulted to. Remember that St. Joan d'Arc was a woman willing to fight and die for what she believed in and that the casualty list of our recent war with Iraq includes women as well as men. Women are clearly prepared to pay the price

 

Further: there are far too many recent examples of same-sex committed relationships to argue that a women wouldn't be willing to bring home the bacon -- even without our recent change in social acceptance of FF coupled families -- there are historical examples of women that provided all subsistence for their family without the aid of a man. Men then are not needed for breadwinning as much as some men would like to believe.

 

So, I think we can say with some rationality that the reason some couples don't invite men is not:

1) because men are only good as sperm donors - there are alternatives.

2) because women won't serve a protector role - they clearly will.

3) because women won't play the provider role - they do it every day.

 

Then what we have done here is establish a few reasons that are not why some couples don't invite single men but, we've yet to determine the original point of question -- why do some couples not invite single men? We can't debate the topic if we bring into the debate an anonymous authority.

 

While I concede that I have used an appeal to popularity motive and a style over substance argument (in this post) in some posts here -- the appeal to pity is not a valid introduction into this discussion.

 

If I didn't know better -- I'd think that you had gotten a list of logical fallacies and are attempting to present one of each into this debate. We're not going to take on attacks on the presenter next are we? That's be sad....

 

Let's explore this idea ad nauseum -- "why do some couple not invite single men to play?" -- the real why -- not the self aggrandizing why.

 

Or has it been covered in the other posts to completion?

 

Sperm comes from a man that is the only place it comes from. No matter where you get sperm it came from a man.

 

I did not mean to say all women, I meant to say most. I am talking about the general rule. You are talking about exceptions to the rule. There are exceptions to every rule.

[Bob123 15]

Of all bi females I have ever seen, most find one man to stay with and then want to be with many different women. I have never seen a bi fem that finds one woman to be with forever and then has sex with man different men. This may or may not have something to do with it.

[BettyAnnMBSC 24]

wow! got some discussion while I was sleeping and I missed it.

 

So, now we've attacked OhioCouple too because there was an opinion posted as to why couples don't invite single men and it seems at least one single guy didn't like what he heard. Is it true here then that the single guys can express freely whatever opinion they want but that couples are not allowed the same privilege without the single guys saying they'll take their toys and go home.

 

Hey lets face it we are in an unfavorable light. I guess I am not welcome here. I spent a lot of time talking to Roxy last night, but now I see her point. I cannot take the insults and I am sure that was a factor in the post....you win. I choose not to fight.

 

Let's grow up a touch dear friend -- this discussion is about why couples don't invite single men into their bedroom -- it's NOT about whether single men should be posting to this board. It's a response to a simple question and one which no single guy is qualified to answer - except possibly by way of observation -- in as much as no single guy is the intended respondent to "why do couples..."

 

as for the comment

 

I did not mean to say all women, I meant to say most. I am talking about the general rule. You are talking about execptions to the rule. There are exceptions to every rule.

 

Again, we're addressing the question "why do couples not invite single men..." and not why do bi-women establish primary relationships with men. That men provide all sperm is not an issue with most couples as they select a partner for swinging. Nor is the social standard that "men bring home the bacon" while women "keep the house" -- none of these issues relate to the original question of "why do couples not invite single men"; they relate more to 1:1 interpersonal relations. Certainly, impregnation is not often a 2:1 consideration.

 

So, what I see here is this:

 

The question has been answered via opinion of some women and couples as to why single men are not invited to play. A few single men were offended by those opinions while still agreeing that a couple can invite or not anyone they like.

 

We've concluded and several agree, that single men are not the primary attraction to swinging couples -- that the elusive single bi-woman is a more sought after partner and that single men fall far down the line in the partner search. I'm not sure that is true of the population in general, but it is true in regard to swinging lifestyle in general.

 

Further, several couples have clearly stated that they do in fact invite single men and that they find these single men in places other than a swingers forum. Therefor, single men who are not being approached by these couples must be unqualified based on some other criteria than their single status.

 

We've seen every logical fallacy known -- including massive appeals to pitty applied by the single men responding in order to support their argument that "couples should invite single men because single men are nice/deserving/polite/etc..." and yet not too many single men will acknowledge that "couples often don't invite single men" for no reason other than they just don't want to.

 

It seems to me -- and this is only my opinion -- that the replies made by some single men on this thread do nothing to enhance the desire of couples to invite single men -- they simply reinforce the opinion of some couples that single men aren't worth their time unless they want to add some un-needed drama to their life.

 

Some seem to take such debate as a personal attack -- ie: I'm a single male, this couple doesn't like single males, therefor they don't like me. The fault here is that this isn't algebra - it doesn't hold here that A+B=C therefor B+A=D where D is a sub group of C.

 

Not only have we challenged several people posting with less than nice rhetoric -- many in this thread have stepped beyond being nice. That in itself speaks to the issue as one of passioned debate. One which some of these men take very much to heart -- and yet they will each agree that a couple is free to select or not select any partner they wish.

 

Now, the argument

 

Sperm comes from a man that is the only place it comes from. No matter where you get sperm it came from a man.

while this is a fact, it is not a fact in the application we have here -- we can not deduct in the 21st century that "since sperm comes from a man, the only way I can have children is to have sex with a man" That issue is proven beyond any debate -- it is possible (and not uncommon) to have children without having sex with the sperm donor. So, that point does not explain the need for men in a relationship at all and may explain why some women do not need a man at all.

 

Maybe we should address the question in another thread of why couples should consider inviting single men to play. This thread though is about why they don't. The bottom line reason why they don't is that "couples are free to invite anyone they want -- so some elect to not invite single men"

 

If you want to explore it slightly further:

 

It seems that a statistical majority of swinging couples are looking for bi-women and NOT men. Therefor they do not invite men (single or married) unless that man also brings a bi-woman to the relationship. Makes sense.

 

Further, some couples are seeking a direct hetersexual partner swap -- 1:1 + 1:1 -- a single man only brings half of that needed outcome and therefor would create an odd man out scenario. Therefor they do not invite single men. Makes sense.

 

Some couples - a fairly small statistical percentage -- are looking for a man to add to the relation in form of MFM or MMF. These couple are interested in a single guy but not in a married cheater. Some of these couples are looking for a bisexual male, which dwindles the selection pool even more.

 

Some couples will f**k anything that moves and therefor leave an opening for single and married guys as well as women...

 

So, the fact is that some couples DO invite single guys to play and some do not. Finding a place within a couple relationship when you're a single guy requires that you appeal to those couples that DO invite single guys. Replying to a swingers ad that clearly says "we're looking for a bi-female or couple with bi-female. No single males please" when you are a single guy does nothing more than imply you can't understand written English. You don't follow instructions well and therefor you won't respect boundaries either. Their ad isn't saying "we hate single guys", it's saying "she wants a woman"

 

This isn't that hard to understand is it????

[BettyAnnMBSC 24]

Of all bi females I have ever seen, most find one man to stay with and then want to be with many different women. I have never seen a bi fem that finds one woman to be with forever and then has sex with man different men. This may or may not have something to do with it.

 

What if I wrote here:

 

Of all single men I've ever seen, most try to sleep with as many women as they can but don't want to make a commitment or even become friends first. I have never seen a single man that isn't ruled by his dick. This may or may not have something to do with it.

-----------------------------

 

Wouldn't you single men find this insulting and then flame me? I know that as a bisexual woman, I find your comments offensive and more than a little misinformed. You are implying that I can't make a commitment to a woman I love when I have done just that in the past. You're implying too that bi-sexual women are coochie sluts since we "want to be with many different women" but in reality, most do not want "many different women" - we want that one special woman. That's why those few who are single are such an elusive commodity. We don't enter a hetero relation to use the man -- the nature of bisexuality requires him. That's why it's called bi and what distinguishes us from the lesbian community.

 

But then again, this is simply the typical male mythos of the bi-woman -- she must be a hyper-slut nymphomaniac if she loves women too...

 

It still doesn't address why couples don't invite single men to play --- maybe one reason is that single men can't follow instructions.... as is evidenced by this thread.

[bear_n_bunny 43]

Quote

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN

Mrs. O said,

 

That is why we (OhioCouple) don't see single men in the lifestyle in a favorable light.

 

Just needed to repeat the important part.

 

don't see single men in the lifestyle in a favorable light.

 

A favorable light? Just curious as I am a single male in the lifestyle. My political beliefs cannot account for the fact that you know single males are a part of this board.

 

Julie runs the board and she has stated many times that singles are welcome and a big part of the lifestyle.

 

Who do you put in a favorite light? It obviously is based on marital status huh?

 

Hey lets face it we are in an unfavorable light. I guess I am not welcome here. I spent a lot of time talking to Roxy last night, but now I see her point. I cannot take the insults and I am sure that was a factor in the post....you win. I choose not to fight. But I would never publicize it based on category.....I wouldn't say "I won't swing with an Ohio female that insults me".

 

[rest deleted for brevity]

 

Put a plug in it O

 

Damn, boy. You need to cool your thrusters. Did you not read her post?!?!? Her case was quite unambiguous, and very accurate, as most any couple who has been in swinging for any length of time can attest. The sad fact is that there ARE a lot of single guys out here who are, not to put too fine a point on it, annoying little pests in the swinging world. Why the hell do you think so damn many couples write, often repeatedly, in all caps NO SINGLE MALES in their ads? Or set their assorted IMs to "invisible" mode? It's because they've been harangued so many times by single guys on the prowl for pussy and they've had enough!

 

How many ways does it have to be said to get the message across? Most couples are NOT looking for single men to play with. PERIOD. This is not what most swingers are about. MOST swinger couples are looking for other COUPLES to play with. GET IT?

 

Someone put it real well when they said that single men complaining about not being scooped up in the swingers' arena is like a single guy going to a lesbian bar and bitching because he didn't get laid there either. And NO, it's NOT a matter of ALL single men being bad people; in the main it is simply a matter of (1.) a higher than normal incidence of single guys behaving badly, and (2.) swinging being an activity wherein few single men are desired (rather like going to a football game and expecting everyone to play baseball instead).

 

You guys really need to quit whining, and face the reality that this is a venue wherein single men are not a required element for the most part. To repeat, your coming into a swingers group and expecting to be greeted with open arms is like going to a pizza parlor and demanding a hamburger, and then getting pissy when you don't get it. You may occasionally find a pizza parlor that also serves hamburgers, but that is going to be a damned rare occurrence. DEAL WITH IT.

[Bob123 15]

Please do not get upset when we questions about why people do things just because we are single and are men. If you never ask any questions, you will probably not get any answers.

 

Quote

 

What if I wrote here:

 

Of all single men I've ever seen, most try to sleep with as many women as they can but don't want to make a commitment or even become friends first. I have never seen a single man that isn't ruled by his dick. This may or may not have something to do with it.

 

Wouldn't you single men find this insulting and then flame me?

 

 

The short answer is no.

 

Quote

It still doesn't address why couples don't invite single men to play --- maybe one reason is that single men can't follow instructions.... as is evidenced by this thread.

 

You have not stayed true to your own topic yourself.

 

Quote

Wouldn't you single men find this insulting and then flame me?

 

What does this have to do with your topic?

[BettyAnnMBSC 24]

Wouldn't you single men find this insulting and then flame me?

 

and you answer - "no"

 

Total BS Bob -- you were insulted that some couples don't invite single men to play, that's why you're in this post! You are clearly easy to incite.

 

Then you clip small pieces of my post without the whole context -- you can't think that the other readers here are so stupid that they don't see that your attempting a redirect? Give us all more credit than that.

 

Now you're going to argue that I'm off topic by responding directly to your off-topic post and one of another writer. You are good at keeping a discussion off topic aren't you? This is called circular logic and it is yet another indicator of poor argumentative skills.

 

I'd suggest right here and now that you and several others aren't in the least bit interested in a reasonable answer to this question. You're interested in maintaining conflict. That's all. It is kinda fun though so I'll play at it with you.

 

I propose that a few reasons that couples don't invite single men to play with them is that many single men (as is evidenced by posts here) are

 

1) too sensitive and jump to illogical conclusions

2) are interested in maintaining conflict and drama where none need be

3) refuse to see beyond their own individual needs.

 

Further, I'm going to argue at this point that "some couples DO invite single men to play" they just don't invite morons.... {not to imply here that anyone in particular is a moron -- but if the shoe fits...}

[Perseus 16]

Well, I have been in on one flame war this week; I don’t intend to get into another. I can see that a certain couple of people have totally poisoned the waters for the single guys again. We had nice discussions about being single in the lifestyle in this forum until this last week, and now it is turning downright mean. I for one am gonna try stay above it till some one attacks me. When that happens, I may have to find a game board to post to instead for a while.

 

That said, John, You have a bad day? Need a chill pill? If you have a personal problem with Mrs. O, you need to take it private.

 

Bob, I know what you are saying and your views on women and the general treatment of all males through out history is well documented. Maybe we could tone it down and be a little more constructive. I don’t think you are gonna win the ‘gender revolution’ in a single swingers forum.

 

As to the original question, I think a lot of people here are looking for a fight and somehow they are looking for the events of the last week to bolster their positions. Why don’t couples look for single males as much as couples and females? The answers are quite clear and have been stated many times. I want to write all of what I really think on the subject, but I am gonna take my time and present it instead of do it off the cuff.

 

Till then, Cheers! And keep the flames to a minimum.

[BettyAnnMBSC 24]

Bob! did you read your own post?

 

you quote me as:

It still doesn't address why couples don't invite single men to play --- maybe one reason is that single men can't follow instructions.... as is evidenced by this thread.

 

then you say:

You have not stayed true to your own topic yourself

 

DID YOU MISS THE PART THAT READS:

 

maybe one reason is that single men can't follow instructions

 

that's the point of the thread -- why do some couples not invite single men to play... that is a proposed reason! What part of that doesn't maintain the thread logic

 

Also, it's not "my topic" -- I'm just a contributor here. The topic was created by someone else. Get with the program buddy!

 

[RnLinohio 17]

Quote

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN

 

Lots of people may care to partake. I think it is unfair to them that you feel such a need to display your animosity toward us. As a single many couples are actually interested in me. I would like to take this opportunity to say I have never been with MRS. O or hubby, so regardless of their opinions I have never had sex with them nor never would contemplate it. That is one for sure NO WAY JOSE....lol

 

Put a plug in it O

 

Flori_DAMAN I could say the same to you. I am not one for bashing single men as a matter of fact some of my best friends are single men. But the question for this thread was "Why no single men?" and I have read every post on here and not one time did anyone say ALL men. They were just giving there opinions on why they prefer single men. I dont see where this thread is a place for single men to add there opinion in it anywhere, unless you would like to state why you would not like to invite a single male to join you.

 

But that said, i think that on most of the threads here, the single males opinion is valued, just like any other opinion. But this particular thread is not for the single male, it is about the single male. And as i see it the board over all is about people expressing their opinions on everything that is brought up. If you can't handle that then no i do not feel you have a place here.

 

But if you are going to reply to someone's post, dont you think that you should read the entire not just the parts that you dont like?

[Bob123 15]

If you look at other posts on this board you will see that all types of people respond. And all types of issues are looked at. This is the way it is here and I hope it is the way it stays. For instance if you look at the poll called "Single guys are you lucky" People who were not single men responded. They responded to what the single men have said and not to the topic itself. Does this show how people are harder on single men? I think that on a post you can respond to what you want how you want. That is how it has seemed to be before.

 

But if you want each post to only respond to the first answer then everytime you want to respond to what someone said you will have to quote them and start a new thread.

 

BettyAnn you responded to my post with a post that was not on topic. So have others here. So why should you be any different.

[Bob123 15]

Or Circular reasoning or Arguing in a circle is thus:

 

A because B, B because C, C because A.

 

I do not think that is what I did. Although I may be wrong. Correct me if I am.

[bbcpl4cpl 17]

Quote

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN

 

 I think the rudeness and lack of sensitivity is appalling. Especially when I hear it from friends. I wonder if people can really put themselves in other people's shoes. Certain people just get off on trying to reduce any semblance of self confidence anyone that doesn't fall into their elite category may happen to have. Not me though.. I would rather be single than be with any one of the ranters I have heard on this board that are so shallow minded and hurtful anyhow...

 

Coming into the lifestyle and from everything on this board that I read I never had a pre-disdain for the single male that wants to swing. There are several men on here that I have found very valuable in reading information from... perseus, eternal and yes, you as well, John. Then there are those few that have been attacked lately.. namely Happy and Bob that I find have rubbed me the wrong way.

 

And yes, I attacked them too. My problems stem from the whineyness though. Oh poor me crap! I don't stand for anyone be it a male or female in a couple or a single who has such a poor image of themselves as a person that they find it necessary to beg for attention in anyway possible.

 

I hope I haven't offended anyone on this board when I do choose to speak my mind in a negative manner. If I have, it wasn't intentional. I have valued this board from the day that I have came on. I love almost all the comments from everyone. There are just a few bad apples and some that are just slightly tarnished , cut one side of it off and it would be just fine...

 

Tigress xx

[alabamafuntonig 20]

I personally don’t mind single guys. I myself (Mr. Bama) find the company of another companion that I can get along with on a social level more important than a sexual level. If a single male is single it’s his choice. As is mine for making friends with him. I don’t find that all single men fall into one category. I have met my share of “let me do your wife “guys online and in this lifestyle but I have seen my share of nice single men like me before I was married. Most of the obnoxious single men I think people are talking about fit into an age difference category. Young horny men that want to score. If you weed those out the other men would all look like saints?

[Perseus 16]

Quote

Originally posted by bbcpl4cpl

Coming into the lifestyle and from everything on this board that I read I never had a pre-disdain for the single male that wants to swing. There are several men on here that I have found very valuable in reading information from... perseus, eternal and yes, you as well, John. Then there are those few that have been attacked lately.. namely Happy and Bob that I find have rubbed me the wrong way.

 

And yes, I attacked them too. My problems stem from the whineyness though. Oh poor me crap! I don't stand for anyone be it a male or female in a couple or a single who has such a poor image of themselves as a person that they find it necessary to beg for attention in anyway possible.

 

 Tigress xx

 

You make me blush milady!

 

As to the poor me stuff, I knew it was and is gonna be a hard road fitting in to the lifestyle. I don't whine, but I always to to learn.

 

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by alabamafuntonig

I think people are talking about fit into an age difference category. Young horny men that want to score. If you weed those out the other men would all look like saints?

I have personally seen men of all age groups (even up into their 80's) that have a lack of respect and are just looking to score. Have managed a rather large restaurant/nightclub for years, you get the opportunity to see it a lot. On the flip side of that I have made many good friends of all age groups that do not behave socially or on the web in that manner. It basically boils down to the offensive leaving a more lasting impression than the those who are not offensive.

 

Having said all that, even though this is a thread about 'single men', I can also say that I have met many single women through my work environment in which the single men can't hold a candle to the sleaziness that they can portray.

 

Sleaze is sleaze, disgusting is disgusting and offensive behavior is offensive behavior, with no preference for gender or marital status. It is all in the eye of the beholder. The difference is that there are a whole lot more single men wanting to get into the swinging scene than there are single women. And that is why single women don't get as bad of a rap as men do.

[BettyAnnMBSC 24]

... or A leads to B and B leads to C therefor C leads back to A

 

even when C has no relation to A other than the relation the C has to B (when B is related to A)

 

ie:

 

A: couples don't invite single men

B: because some single men are not nice

C: but some single men are nice

 

therefore relate back to A as "couples don't invite single men because they are nice" -- circular indeed, but it doesn't follow.

 

As to what is posted to the board vs the thread -- certainly there are any number of issues addressed on this board (A) which may or may not be related to this thread (B) which can both be found on the internet © so, "anything that is found on the internet is related to this thread?"

 

The reason we're getting off topic here -- and all too often, is that some people use redirective argumentation to change the subject -- and therby avoid the subject altogether.

 

For example:

you write...

 

If you look at other posts on this board you will see that all types of people respond. And all types of issues are looked at.

but this really has nothing to do at all with "No single males? Why not?" It may make for interesting conversation to some, but it is not the point of the thread.

 

You seem to imply that because "And all types of issues are looked at" on this board, then it is ok to address all types of issues in this thread.

 

Generally speaking, netiquette demands that threads remain on topic or closely related and off-topic issues that come up be moved to a new thread.

 

Now, I have tried to keep each of my posts in reply to you within the topic of "why" as this thread began -- I've done that because that's why people click on this thread heading to read it -- they too wonder "why"

 

So, here's another "why" possibilty for you...

 

Couples don't invite single men into their bedroom because some single men can't have a conversation and remain on topic. They let their mind run from her to there and back again. This would imply then that they won't be able to stay focused on a couple+single relationship either. It would appear too that single men tend to use "I" with the frequency that couples use "WE" -- many couples have developed a relationship over time that has created not a 1+1 is 2 people but instead 1+1= 1 couple. That is an idea that many single folk can't clearly understand.

[RnLinohio 17]

Quote

Couples don't invite single men into their bedroom because some single men can't have a conversation and remain on topic. They let their mind run from her to there and back again. This would imply then that they won't be able to stay focused on a couple+single relationship either. It would appear too that single men tend to use "I" with the frequency that couples use "WE" -- many couples have developed a relationship over time that has created not a 1+1 is 2 people but instead 1+1= 1 couple. That is an idea that many single folk can't clearly understand.

 

I think after reading this thread, I like this reason the best of all.

 

[EternallySingle 32]

I made one comment about one statement that I hear all the time in real life, and not just concerning swinging either, and state my opinion about it. That statement itself offends me.

 

I don't have a problem with couples or women who won't swing with a single man, or even with me in particular. It was one statement that I was debating. Nothing else.

 

Again, I am sooooooooo sorry for upsetting you all. I guess somethings still are able to set me on edge. More meditation (or stronger drinks) are needed.

[Roxysbayou 20]

First let me just say that I know that I said that I wasn't going to post anymore, but I was asked to view this thread by another member (not John) and tell what I think. And since many feel that my niceness was hurting the board.. no more Mrs. Nice girl.

 

Originally posted by BettyAnnMBSC

So, now we've attacked OhioCouple too because there was an opinion posted as to why couples don't invite single men and it seems at least one single guy didn't like what he heard. Is it true here then that the single guys can express freely whatever opinion they want but that couples are not allowed the same privilege without the single guys saying they'll take their toys and go home.

 

Single men can freely address any issue here as well as couples. If one person didn't like what he heard, and it was not just an opinion, it was also derogatory remarks, then he has every right to stand up for what he feels to be correct. The overall tone of this board lately in case you missed it, (and it shows in your next paragraph) is that singles guys cannot freely express thier feelings here because everyone feels that he may some how offend a couple.

 

Let's grow up a touch dear friend -- this discussion is about why couples don't invite single men into their bedroom -- it's NOT about whether single men should be posting to this board. It's a response to a simple question and one which no single guy is qualified to answer - except possibly by way of observation -- in as much as no single guy is the intended respondent to "why do couples..."

 

If the intent of this question was for no single guys to answer then why was it posted in the Swinging Single section of the board? Furthermore, several of the "single" men who did respond have had long term swinging careers as a couple and are only recently single. Therefore they have seen the best and worst of both worlds and are probably more "qualified" to answer this thread than you are.

 

Did you ever stop to think that maybe its not all single guys. Just maybe its your attitude and approach that makes single guys behave the way that they do?

 

Roxy

[jen 16]

And since many feel that my niceness was hurting the board.. no more Mrs. Nice girl.

 

Roxy,

 

People consider your words hurtful to this board...ouch.

 

My words are gone. Wow.

 

I can say that I am glad that the person who asked you to view this thread, asked you, and that you did respond.

 

I hope that you stay in your very nice way.

[M&B 21]

Originally posted by OhioCouple

I have personally seen men of all age groups (even up into their 80's) that have a lack of respect and are just looking to score.

 

I have a great deal of respect for women.

 

Haven't scored in months, though.

[Perseus 16]

Quote

Originally posted by OhioCouple

I have personally seen men of all age groups (even up into their 80's) that have a lack of respect and are just looking to score.

 

Jeeze, why do I feel like Bob here.... Girls don't want to score? Guys are jerks because they do? If guys (or girls) didn't wanna score, you would have those wonderful weddings and babies. Am I really that wrong? Or am I just another jerk guy.

 

Perseus

 

P.S. Yes, I know what you are really saying, but it is so frustrating to read the 'party line' over and over when everyone knows the score. Hell there would be no swinging if girls didn't get into sex on some level...

 

Ahhhh....

 

I feel beter now...

[OhioCouple 40]

Quote

Originally posted by OhioCouple

Having said all that, even though this is a thread about 'single men', I can also say that I have met many single women through my work environment in which the single men can't hold a candle to the sleaziness that they can portray.

M&B and Perseus.... did ya'll miss this paragraph which was included in the same post that you quoted and responded to? Did I not spell it out well enough?

 

Let me do so now, in easier terms to understand.

 

Women can be just as sleazy as the men that are merely looking for a piece of ass. I base this on years of observation from my working environment. Women can also be older than the boonies and still think that every man wants them. Ya wanna hear a good story, well then ask me some time about Cloris Leachman. No one is exempt from being sleazy. (And of course I am speaking of my definition of sleazy which begins with lack of self respect and those around you.) That is just one of DOZENS that I could relay about women and how they can be disrespectful.

 

Trust me, women want to get laid just as much as men do.

 

My comments that you both referred to was in reference to this statement posted by alabamafuntonigh

 

Quote

Most of the obnoxious single men I think people are talking about fit into an age difference category. Young horny men that want to score. If you weed those out the other men would all look like saints?

[jen 16]

Even tho I have posts within this thread, I hadn't read enough of it to realize.

 

Well, now I have read way more then I like.

 

I am sad to see people who communicate so well, do so without realy communicating.

 

It is obvious that this is a heartfelt topic.

 

Within this thread are some strong minds with strong opinions. Clashing happens, disagreements happen.

 

To think that any of the people whose opinions I come here to hear, might go away and not come back over a disagreement is scarey.

 

Disagreeing is good. Losing friendships over disagreements isn't.

[BettyAnnMBSC 24]

Single men can freely address any issue here as well as couples. If one person didn't like what he heard, and it was not just an opinion, it was also derogatory remarks, then he has every right to stand up for what he feels to be correct.

 

While slightly out of context against what I had earlier written -- that was not the point of my post at all. The point of my post was that the thread was heading into the "if I don't agree with the opinion that you've stated, then I'll just leave, I needn't need understand where you're coming from". Of course everyone should state their opinion when a question begins with "why" or "why not" -- single, married, divorced, widowed, etc... But, we needn't jump to the immediate conclusion that any derogatory opinion stated about a generalization is intended for the the specific individual.

 

The question was though a general question and not specific -- therefor the answer must be general and not specific as well. When discussing a topic of a general nature, we must then consider issues like "most" "many" and "some" -- and not the "occasional" "few" or "one". It wasn't asked "why don't couples invite John Doe?" but instead, why don't couples invite single men - in general.

 

That said, some of the reasons why couples don't invite single men were presented here by many posting with well reasoned process. Factual and annecdotal evidence was provided as well. And yet, some readers took offense to the generalizations presented (as did I when bi-sexuality of women was generalized by Bob). Taking a discussion topic of opinion into an argument of personality is not only uneccesary but also counter-productive.

 

The bottom line then is this: do we wish to understand the "why" here in this thread or do we wish to argue that the generalizations presented don't apply to all single men? These are not mutually exclusive ideas but they are contradictory.

 

There remains a stated fact that most clubs and many couples do not invite single men to play -- it's not important at this point in debate whether "single" be distinguished from the recently single or the terminally single -- only that most clubs and many couples do not invite single men to play. It's not even a discussion of is it fair? this is a discussion of the base process.

 

So, maybe we need to redirect the debate to that assumption. The original post asked a "why not" question based on that single assumption. Now I ask, is that assumption true? Do most clubs and couples invite single men to play?

 

This is not a discussion of whether I or anyone else likes single men -- if you read my posts, you will find that the MFM and MMF is exactly our idea of swinging fun. We are one of those couples that requires a single male! That said, we also understand than many couples do not play MFM/MMF but only FMF and MFMF. This does not make them anti-male.

 

So again, do we want to understand why most clubs and many couples do not invite single men to play or do we want to discuss why some men are not as bad as other single men you meet --- these two discussions are NOT the same!

 

Of course, we could discuss too whether each of us is a nice/sexy/friendly/smart/wealthy person -- but that's not answering the question either.

 

Maybe we should just have a threaded chat here with no regard to the thread topic at all.......

 

 

Betty Ann

[alabamafuntonig 20]

I must say passion and vigor Mrs. O.

 

I guess my point I was trying to convey (without backpedaling) Is that there is a larger segment of the single male population (and females if you will) that have no respect to start with. Throughout out the course of anyone's lifetime they can recall all sorts of people that were just rude. I'm making a blanket statement in general. I believe age and wisdom play a major factor in a single man's persona to a swinger couple.

 

Case in point: Would you swing with Harrison Ford or Kid Rock if they were single?

[BettyAnnMBSC 24]

Quote

Roxy wrote:

 

"Did you ever stop to think that maybe its not all single guys. Just maybe its your attitude and approach that makes single guys behave the way that they do?"

 

There is an experiment presented in an earlier post which addresses whether it is the attitude of the women/couples or the single male here that gives a generalized (not all single men - just many) opinion of single men in the lifestyle.

 

That experiment proposes that you create a Yahoo screen name which is a swinging couple or female with a profile. Then enter a "romance in xyz" chat and say nothing but hello.

 

In many people's experience you will immediately be inundated with messages of the crudest nature asking if you want to do all manner of things and of course, whether you have some pictures he can have.

 

This then implies that it is not my attitude toward men which cause them to react this way when placed in proximity to the lifestyle -- but instead, their assumption that all women in the lifestyle are an easy lay and that we are not at all selective. Of course, this is a generalization -- I'd bet that Bob would never do such a thing.

 

This has nothing to do with whether I like men whatsoever -- I do like men. That's a generalization too though. I like some men -- not all men...

 

So, in answer to your question, yes I have stopped to think that it is not all single men. That is the a point of my writings here. But it also a fact that we must consider many couples do not invite single men to play and also a fact that someone wanted to know "why not?" We can't tell him that the reason that some couples don't invite single men to play is 'because some single guys are really nice"; or can we?

 

So, I ask you too -- why do some couples not invite single men to play? or conversely, do most couples invite single men to play?

 

Caution though -- if you answer either question, some readers may take offense to your observations and opinion.

 

[M&B 21]

Originally posted by OhioCouple

M&B and Perseus.... did ya'll miss this paragraph which was included in the same post that you quoted and responded to? Did I not spell it out well enough?

 

 

 

I missed nothing, I promise you.

 

I still want to score.

[BettyAnnMBSC 24]

Quote

Did you ever stop to think that maybe its not all single guys. Just maybe its your attitude and approach that makes single guys behave the way that they do?

 

I just read over this entire thread again to make sure that I hadn't said "all single men suck" -- I didn't. I have made it clear over and over and over that I am referring to the generalization of "single men" and not to the specifics of any given man.

 

Maybe I was completely incorrect in what I have written and I do apologize then if I was.

 

Since I too have obviously upset some folks though -- I will concede that maybe I am wrong here... So, do I understand correctly:

 

1) most clubs and couples DO invite single men to play.

 

2) most single guys are really great and it's only a very small few that are obnoxious or just out to get laid.

 

3) I shouldn't attempt to keep my discussions on this board/site to the topic of the thread but should just let my thoughts ramble from point-to-point -- I should expect everyone else to do the same.

 

4) I should consider that if someone asks any question - it must be answered in the same manner that we answer "is my ass too big" -- ie: "of course not honey..." Otherwise, someone's feelings may be hurt. They didn't really want to know the truth anyway.

 

5) couples should invite single males into their intimate relations solely 'cause single guys deserve sex too...

 

6) when a debate gets too heated, it's ok to change the topic or introduce faulted reason, that way people get to hear only what they like and nobody gets ruffled feathers.

 

I think I understand now...

 

I'm glad I'm now enlightened on these points and have gained greater knowledge I look forward to the next heated discussion -- now that I know what is acceptable procedure.

 

Betty Ann

bowing out of this debate before I really piss someone off

I have truly enjoyed reading the reason of some of these posts though -- and hope to read from some of you more often.

[OhioCouple 40]

Bama, I too understood your intent. It's just that some of the single men (which is what the topic is about) are taking it to heart that they are unfairly treated, where as couples and single gals can do no wrong. Throw in the age factor.... and bingo, we are off to the races again....

 

As for your question of Harrison For or Kid Rock, well I don't know who the latter is, but Harry can eat crackers in my bed anytime! Woot! Woot!

 

I'm 42 and I wanna score too, M&B. You are in good company, most of us here wanna score in some capacity, with whoever tickles their fantasy!

[OhioCouple 40]

Quote

Originally posted by Roxysbayou

If the intent of this question was for no single guys to answer then why was it posted in the Swinging Single section of the board?

Perhaps because it pertained to singles and not couples?

 

 

Quote

Furthermore, several of the "single" men who did respond have had long term swinging careers as a couple and are only recently single. Therefore they have seen the best and worst of both worlds and are probably more "qualified" to answer this thread than you are.

How could a single be more qualified to answer a question about "Why 'couples' don't invite singles into their bedroom "? The question was for 'couples', at least the way I understood it. It wasn't posed to specifically singles that used to be couples and have played both ways. So in my eyes all 'Couples' past or present are EQUALLY qualified to answer, in addition to all singles that have had the opportunity to veiw it from a couples point of view. If only those that have played on both ends of the field are qualified to answer. Well then, what do we have 4 or 5 regualars to respond? Perhaps the original poster should have said... "Gentleman, those of you that have been past swingers as couples, and are now single, why don't you allow singles in your bedroom.?" That would have made a whole lot of sense. Then we would be asking for singles to explain their fears on bi-sexuality or homo-sexuality. Completely different question.

 

Quote

Did you ever stop to think that maybe its not all single guys. Just maybe its your attitude and approach that makes single guys behave the way that they do?

And just why do you think it makes couples feel the way they do? I never asked to be IM'd constantly by men asking me what my measurements and age were or if I liked to suck cock. I never asked to be messaged by men that wanted to know if I had some pictures to share. I never asked to be SENT pictures of a hard on. I never asked to be asked to cyber chat. So who's approach is at fault here? I never approached, I was though approached. More times than I can count.

 

While I understand your efforts, I disagree with your logic.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Quote

Originally posted by OhioCouple

Perhaps because it pertained to singles and not couples?

 

Quote

How could a single be more qualified to answer a question about "Why 'couples' don't invite singles into their bedroom "?

 

Perhaps if the single had 20 years in a swinging couple relationship. It would be like if you lost your partner tomorrow. WOuld you lose knowledge also? Experience does not leave you once your partner does.

 

 

Quote

Perhaps the original poster should have said... "Gentleman, those of you that have been past swingers as couples, and are now single, why don't you allow singles in your bedroom.?" That would have made a whole lot of sense. Then we would be asking for singles to explain their fears on bi-sexuality or homo-sexuality. Completely different question.

 

Indeed. Completely different. Perhaps the question was perceived by the readers own sense of reality, whether they be single, married or homosexual with or without fear.

 

 

Quote

And just why do you think it makes couples feel the way they do? I never asked to be IM'd constantly by men asking me what my measurements and age were or if I liked to suck cock.

 

I never asked to be lumped into the single male asshole category either. Believe me I have met many married swingers that fall into categories that make most single male assholes look like saints. The ring does not make the person.

 

 

Quote

I never asked to be messaged by men that wanted to know if I had some pictures to share. I never asked to be SENT pictures of a hard on. I never asked to be asked to cyber chat. So who's approach is at fault here? I never approached, I was though approached. More times than I can count.

 

Having been a part of a couple for so many years swinging those requests were nothing more than a mild if not amusing item for me. It is normal. Non threatening and easy to delete.

 

 

Quote

While I understand your efforts, I disagree with your logic.

 

Logistical items are opinions. It may be perfectly logical to swing for instance to you, but you neighbor may find it abhorrent sexually deviant behavior. Both are right in there own reality. It is ok to disagree, but hey, I disagree with yours but the lack of the ability to put ones self into another's shoes is rather disagreeable to me also.....not that you meant me this time.

 

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by BettyAnnMBSC

 

I'm glad I'm now enlightened on these points and have gained greater knowledge I look forward to the next heated discussion -- now that I know what is acceptable procedure.

Acceptable procedure is posting what YOU feel about the topic at hand and wherever the subject has led to, as quite often it strays somewhat off topic. Just because some people don't like your personal observations does not mean that all do and it most certainly doesn't mean that your opinions have no merit.

 

Topics such as this can help you learn a lot about people in general.

 

So back to the original topic. I should have made my first response short and sweet.

 

Why don't we advertise or allow singles? Because we just freaking don't want to.

[b smith 15]

From looking at the replies this is a popular topic and have not read through all of the responses. Hope don't vary too much from the original question. As a couple our interest is sigle men in a threesome situation. We have had one experience with a friend and looking at doing it again with someone else. The problem is that we don't know anyone who is interested and so we have tried a few ads. When you have had a few problems it begins to make you less likely to believe the legitmate ones are out there, a snowball effect. An example is one who keeps on hounding us via email to meet us and we have finally reported him. Furthermore we get several response that start out with ".... [insert age] single male with [insert large size in inches] c*ock looking for sex with / looking to please women ..... have pics..... willing to travel ". There are so many problems with such an introduction like that I don't even know where to begin. Finally we get married men who either try to hide that they are married or say that they have their wife's permission. The problem has been a few has "spoiled" it for the rest.

 

From our experience with single males it is hard on intial contact to take what is being said at face value and they face an uphill battle created by those who lack the jugement to be in such a position. We don't want to sound as though we are bashing single males. By no mean are we but from our experience unless you know them personally, there tends to be a creditbility problem that has been created by a very small minority. The few bad experiences with contact that we have had has made us question everything that is being said to us and for the time being not too keen on trying it again.

 

Single males do have a role. Especially in a way of providing additional pleasures for the female in the couple. Because of this, it has made us consider it doing it again. It can be quite an enjoyable and erotic experience for all involve. The challenge for single males is building creditbility with the couple in the sense that they are not looking for a "quick lay" or thinking the reason why a couple is looking for a male to join them is because the female is not being pleasure by her spouse. A barrier has been created for those who are legitmate by those single males who lack the maturity for this type of situation. If a single male can be sensitive to the "couple's dynamics" they will be successful in a threesome / swinging situation. Single males should be aware the difficulty that they may be having may be one of two reasons. The first is they are insensitive to couple. This is the a minority of cases and the second reason being they are facing the effects created by the first group, of insentive single males.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

It does seem that some folks in this thread are having a hard time dealing with what the original question actually was. This isn't a debate over why everyone should swing with singles as well as couple, or over why single males have such a hard time in the lifestyle.

 

The question was simply "why do some couples choose not to swing with single males?".

 

Several people posted their opinions/reasons for why couples choose not to swing with single males. Whether or not those reasons/opinions are valid in all eyes isn't really an issue. We could fight over that till we are blue in the face. But the fact of the matter was that people were giving their honest answers to the question that was posed.

 

I think my favorite post in all of this was the one that said, if you aren't one of the jerks then why do you get so defensive when people say that some guys are jerks? Some couples are jerks. Some married guys are jerks. Some single females are jerks.

 

Personally, I think I've ran into more pushy married men and couples than I have ever have single males within the lifestyle, but I have run into my share of pushy/jerky single guys as well. Fortunately, it hasn't been a high enough number to make me not want to swing with single guys as a general principle... just makes me not want to swing with those particular ones.

[De and Ci 19]

I don't know if this has been brought up before, But I think most of the "single males" that respond to postings with crude comments and disgusting photos are just fuckin' with people. I wouldn't be suprised to find out that many of them are just 14 year olds with their friends getting their jollies off as well as adults who haven't grown up yet. Its a shame-but since girls are from an early age are taught to be "appalled" by crude and sexist remarks, boys who want to make mischief find them easy targets.

[Soulfinger508 16]

Quote

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So, here's another "why" possibility for you...

 

Couples don't invite single men into their bedroom because some single men can't have a conversation and remain on topic. They let their mind run from her to there and back again. This would imply then that they won't be able to stay focused on a couple+single relationship either. It would appear too that single men tend to use "I" with the frequency that couples use "WE" -- many couples have developed a relationship over time that has created not a 1+1 is 2 people but instead 1+1= 1 couple. That is an idea that many single folk can't clearly understand.

 

This statement is a generalization. Not all couples and single males behave the way you describe. One of the reasons I'm involved in the swinging lifestyle is that there's more directness as opposed to when you meet someone at a club or a bar. If they want sex, they will tell you and be upfront about it. It's obvious that we all had different experiences and opinions as far swinging goes, but I feel at the same time that it's unfair to pigeonhole everyone based on the actions of a few.

[topdog6 15]

I know women fantasize about two men and that is normal. If you want to fulfill the mfm thing with a single guy though don't fool yourself that he is there for any other reason except that you will DO him. I go crazy when I hear women say that they feel the men are there to please them. They are they because the women will spread..period! Frankly I worry about men who want to fuck everyone else's partner but never seem to have one of their own. Face it, your single male in the male-female-male combo is a lonely loser who can't believe some strange woman will let him go to town on her or that her husband will share in the first place. Unfortunately, one of the huge tests here and or in any relationship is would the person still associate with you if you weren't opening holes to him? I doubt it!

[Bob123 15]

I have seen many threads get off of the topic. I have not read every single thread on this board. I have never seem people being critisized for being off topic. Why is this thread any different? Are you only allowed to get off topic to chastize someone for being off topic? Are you only allowed to acknowledge the first thread? Do you have to ignore what was said by someone you want to address simply because they did not start the thread? Should you quote what the person said and make a whole new thread if you want to respond? These questions are for you Julie. Will you please clear the air for me? I am a little confused as to the rules on this.

 

Thank you