Her kissing upsets me

[doug39 80]

I figure many of you are upset with me over the negative things I said about swingers. It is because I am confused.

 

When my wife of 17 years first brought up the idea of swinging with another couple 6 months ago I wasn't crazy about the idea, but I went along with it to make her happy.

 

We did do a FMF with one of her friends last April but it wasn't that good for me.

 

I really don't care if I am ever with another woman again or not; but my wife really wants to do a MFM with another guy and me.

 

I want her to fulfill her desires but I am insecure about losing my wife and can be jealous. My wife assures me that she only loves me and it is only about the sex; she wants to feel desired by other men and be hot and slutty.

 

Even though I wasn't 100% on the idea I met a guy on Craigslist last month and set up a meeting. My wife then told me to forget the whole idea and that she didn't want to risk messing up our marriage.

 

I know she really wants to do this and I want her to be happy so I continued researching swinger sites. Yesterday I found a personal ad with many pictures of a couple in our hometown. Last night the wife and I were in a local bar that was having a Xmas party and I spotted that couple. I told my wife about it and showed her their profile and pictures on my iPhone.

 

This really turned my wife on and we started talking about swinging with another couple again. We went home, got out the dildos to simulate another man, and had hot incredible sex.

 

I then told her I could handle her fucking and sucking another man as long as their was no kissing, hugging or intimacy - just sex. *To me kissing is more intimate than fucking because it involves love and caring.

 

I got upset with my wife a few weeks ago because she was hanging on this guy at the bar, hugging and trying to kiss him and telling him she loved him and that he was sexy.

 

My wife thinks kissing is nothing compared to giving a man her pussy and if we do swing she said she can't guarantee she won't kiss her partner during sex. She did French kiss her girlfriend during the FMF we had and I thought it was hot.

 

Again I am confused. Any comments? Thanks and again I apologize. *This whole thing has rocked my world big time.

[DigginIt 1,132]

Doug...

 

First thing is take a deep breath. As far as your last post...when you get angry or upset and then lash out at others it doesn't help anyone and shuts everyone down to your threads.

 

I'm going to take one more shot here with you...don't let me down.

 

You are not ready to swing. Don't tell your wife "no" but tell her you need time to get your head around it. Set a date a few months out...you have to give her an expectation of some time frame that she can handle while you try to work through your concerns. That will take some pressure off your shoulders but you need to search deep in your soul and try to decide if you can go through with this.

 

Here is what I'm afraid of. I don't think you are going to be able to swing. Jealousy is one of the strongest emotions we have and you may never be able to overcome yours. The other thing is that your wife may never give up her idea of wanting to be a swinger. You two need to talk, talk and then talk some more. This can split up your marriage quicker than anything but it can also make it stronger than you can imagine.

 

The trust that my wife and I share is amazing. You said previously in one of your rants about how can one watch another fuck your wife or something along those lines. That is your possessive/jealous side thinking. You have been taught your entire life that sex is only for two people who get married, sex is special but it isn't...LOVE is special. Sex is just a physical act with the ultimate purpose for procreation. We just equate them to mean the same thing but they are not.

 

I think you and your wife are not going to get through this without a lot of communication. If you do decide to move forward you need to remove alcohol from the equation. If you or your wife can't do this sober then you shouldn't do it at all.

 

You need to talk to your wife about why she wants to do it. If it's a tit for tat thing and she says it's her turn then you two have bigger concerns and swinging isn't it. If she can give you some genuine reasons that make sense then you should seriously consider your wife's feelings.

 

You said that she was abused when she was younger. That could be posing all sorts of underlying issues that I'm not even qualified to address so you need to keep that in mind as well.

 

Don't use Craigslist or AFF if you are seriously looking to try this. Try one of the other sites and maybe tell your wife you want to start off slower with some soft swapping. That involves kissing and heavy petting, could involve some oral but it's your rules and then have sex with each other. Let you work on building the trust to get into the lifestyle.

 

It sounds like she is going to want to do this with you or without you and that isn't good news for you. I wish you the best but you two have a lot of work ahead.

[doug39 80]

We did discuss the alcohol issue last night and we agreed that we may have a drink or two when swinging but will not get drunk.

 

We are going to take it slow.... We agreed that we want to meet another couple similar to us and become comfortable friends first.

 

We are thinking about checking out some swingers clubs after the holidays.

 

Thanks for your advice.

[Baconheads 432]

HI, Doug!

 

I've read your previous posts and I can tell you're on an emotional roller coaster here. I can understand that, as diggin said, your core beliefs have been challenged, and by the most important person in your life, no less.

 

You realize how lucky you are, don't you? Having a woman who is not only willing, but excited about wanting to expand the boundaries of your sexuality? How mind blowing could that be?

 

Now I realize that it may totally not be for you. I stepped out of my comfort zone about a year ago and explained my fantasy to my wife, who did *not* share my kink, which was just to watch and be watched. Her response was, "Maybe I should leave so you can do what you want to do..."

 

So it's awesome that you're considering this, and of course talk, talk, etc. like the experienced people say. I'm pulling for you!

[doug39 80]

Thanks Bacon. I am lucky. My wife is a great person.

 

We are both 48, have lived fairly normal lives and she really wants to live it up and get alittle wild while we still are young enough.

 

My wife orgasmed 10 times in 30 minutes last night just simulating a MFM with me and dildos; imagine what another real men would bring to the experience.

 

Never thought about doing the watch/ be watched thing but am willing to try!!!

[Alura 2,774]

doug39 said:

I then told her I could handle her fucking and sucking another man as long as their was no kissing, hugging or intimacy - just sex. *To me kissing is more intimate than fucking because it involves love and caring.

 

Kissing does not necessarily mean, "I love you!" It can also mean, "Let's get hot and fuck each other silly!"

 

Now, intimacy is a different matter. The late Mrs. Alura and I had only one rule: "Don't make love with anyone else." It was a promise that was easy to keep, since we didn't love anyone else.

 

I think y'all have a lot of communication to develop before considering swinging, but I think y'all are making headway. Keep working on it.

[km34 672]

Alura said:

The late Mrs. Alura and I had only one rule: "Don't make love with anyone else." It was a promise that was easy to keep, since we didn't love anyone else.

 

I would agree that this is the most important differentiation, but it is also vague. What constitutes 'making love' is different to different people. When my husband and I 'make love' it is usually slow and close with lots of kissing. When we are swinging, he may have slow sex with lots of kissing, but it still isn't making love because the intimacy isn't there. One look at his face tells me it isn't the same because he isn't with ME. Just something to keep in mind... Even though a physical act between another man and your wife (or you and another woman) may have all of the same PHYSICAL characteristics as a physical act between you and your wife doesn't mean it is emotionally intimate like it is between you and her.

[JandC78 16]

I figured I would chime in here, We are fairly new, not quite two years.

 

Before we started doing this, I was an extremely jealous person, my wife could barely talk to another man without me going off on her. Now I find that I am the one that finds people and sets things up. and the part I like most about things is watching her have fun.

 

Our first experience took awhile to happen, and even the night took a while, like 5 hours of talking at a couple different places before I was okay with getting a room and trying some things. I must say it was hot as hell, I am glad I forced myself to experience it. I finally came to the realization that I had to try it once or I would always wonder what it would be like.

 

I think you will surprise yourself and may even have an easy time with jealousy when it is all said and done.

 

Finding this board also helped, although I did not ask questions, I tread a lot. probably 50 hours worth of different things on here and that really put my mind at ease.

[doug39 80]

I am not sure if jealousy is really the correct word. It's more an insecurity that her being with another man could change her feelings for me and end what we currently have.

 

But in reality many things could end our marriage without another man involved.

 

I fantasize about my wife doing a MFM with other guys all the time; it's about the only thing that gets me off.

 

I just need to be brave and do it. I worry to much about the negative side of swinging.

[Alura 2,774]

I worry to much about the negative side of swinging.

 

I don't believe I ever noticed a "negative side of swinging." Did I miss something?

[EnjoyingLife 127]

My best advice is to take is slooooowww. Baby steps! There is no need to rush into anything.

 

If you go back and read some of my old posts you'll see that my husband has also dealt with feelings of jealousy and insecurity. Now, about a year into our journey he experiences only the occasional mild twinges of jealousy.

 

This is because we talk, talk, talk and constantly reassure each other of our love for each other. We also agreed to take things very slow, first just watching/being watched, then some minor soft swinging, then adding oral into our soft swinging, and then finally full swapping. But even that wasn't a smooth path. When something would make him uncomfortable, there were times when we would take a step or two back and only proceed if and when we were ready.

 

Today we have a couple that we swing with regularly and they have become two of the closest friends we've ever had. We had an incredible marriage to begin with, but now it is stronger and more open than I ever thought possible. We're very happy and not looking back.

 

But here is the important thing...I knew from our very first experience that I was going to REALLY enjoy swinging. I completely understand your wife's desire to live it up while she is still young enough to enjoy it. But I never lost sight of the fact that we were doing this as a couple. If at any time my husband told me that he didn't want to proceed--that his jealous feelings were too hard to overcome, for example--I would have stopped immediately. He and our relationship are far too important to me to put him through that. What I'm saying is DON'T just do it for your wife. If you proceed, do it because it is what you really want to do. And if at any point it becomes uncomfortable for you, stop and reassess.

 

One other word of advice...our very first real exposure to swinging was when we went to a resort that caters to people in the lifestyle. We didn't swing when we were there. We just observed, talked to a lot of people, and by the end of the week felt comfortable enough to have sex in one of the public areas. I actually think this was the perfect introduction as it got us both used to the idea, but there was never any pressure on us to do more than we were comfortable doing. While going to a resort might not work for you, your idea of going to a club might be a good idea. But when you go, don't go with any expectations of playing that night. Just go with plans to dance, talk with other couples, observe, and learn. If all goes well and you enjoy it, make plans to go a second time. Baby steps...

 

Good luck!

[Miss_Piggy 98]

I got upset with my wife a few weeks ago because she was hanging on this guy at the bar, hugging and trying to kiss him and telling him she loved him and that he was sexy. *

 

 

I whole-heartedly agree with the above comments. You need to do a lot more talking before you proceed.

[doug39 80]

Well it's not like she is in love with the guy from the bar.

 

He is a happily married man, we also know his wife and he is a nice interesting guy.

 

Sure, my wife may have a little crush on him and would do him if they were both single.

 

My wife loves a lot of things and people and uses that word too loosely some times.

[rainbowskye 102]

I am just going to be 100% blunt and straight forward here. I find these strings of threads from this user to be suspect. I say that because it is the same song and dance and when the advice doesn't go the way the OP wants, or he doesn't get the pity party he wants he goes on the defense.

 

I am in no way trying to start any drama. I am just speaking from my heart here.

 

If this were a true scenario I would say the husbands internal core values are not that if a swinger and until he learns to communicate with his wife , control jealousy issues, differentiate sex from love, and even kissing from affection, and learns to mature a bit that he is not ready for real swinging.

 

The wife on the other hand seems to have the core values to separate sexual acts from affection and love and is ready to swing, but shouldn't until her husband is on the same playing field.

 

In any case, if you can not do something when you are stone cold sober, you have no business doing it at all.

 

With the back and forth posts of the OP it is hard to believe this is not just for attention. I don't know if I am the only one to feel this way about it or not.

 

I don't know how anyone can put swingers down, and then come back and ask those same people for advise and consider doing the one thing he seems to loathe. Even when he talks about his wife's friend he supposedly had a threesome with he talks about her in a negative manor. It makes no sense. If you felt that way, why go through with it? SMDH

[rainbowskye 102]

Well it's not like she is in love with the guy from the bar.

He is a happily married man, we also know his wife and he is a nice interesting guy.

Sure, my wife may have a little crush on him and would do him if they were both single.

 

My wife loves a lot of things and people and uses that word too loosely some times.

 

If she uses that word loosely , how do you know she means it when she says it to you?

[doug39 80]

rainbowskye said:

If she uses that word loosely , how do you know she means it when she says it to you?

 

I guess I don't.

 

Say what you want. Everything I have said is true. I am very confused over this whole thing.

 

1. My wife wants to swing.

2. I am insecure about swinging.

3. I want to keep my marriage together and make my wife happy.

[rainbowskye 102]

I guess I don't.

 

Say what you want. Everything I have said is true. I am very confused over this whole thing.

 

1. My wife wants to swing.

2. I am insecure about swinging.

3. I want to keep my marriage together and make my wife happy.

 

Perhaps you should see a lifestyle friendly counselor.

[DigginIt 1,132]

I find these strings of threads from this user to be suspect.

 

I disagree. His posts are so drama (and I don't like that word in this scenario but it's the best one I could really think of) filled that I can't help but believe him.

 

Doug, how has your wife been for the 17 years you two have been together? Is this characteristic of her over all or in the past few years. Is this 17 years of repressed emotion coming to the surface? There are always two sides to a story but the picture you paint of her is greatly contrast by periods of being wildly out of control.

 

I spent just shy of 15 years in the military and most people know this but the reason I bring this up is that I would deploy with guys and the moment they got overseas they would go nuts, fucking anything and everything, drinking to no end, just unbelievable stuff because if you knew them they were vastly different then they were back in the states.

 

I often would talk to my wife about this and the theory that I came up with is that they live such pent up lives (and this is no excuse for their behavior because it's unacceptable to cheat) but the moment they get a little freedom they would party in excess and over indulge as if they were trying to get a 'fix' before they went back to their 'normal' lives.

 

The image I get from your posts is that when she drinks she gets out of control and those "mid-life crisis" issues come to the surface. You said it yourself that she wants to live it up some while you two are still young.

 

The tossing around of the word love (if she has been drinking) I would just dismiss as being way too intoxicated. If she did it sober then that would be scary.

 

When we first started swinging, it really became a focal point in our lives but over the course of about a year, it did settle out. Now its just one focus of many.

 

You shouldn't swing at all yet because I think you are going to really screw up another couple until you (if you) get your relationship wired tight but I don't think your going to be able to reverse course at this point. The dice have been cast and all the chips are on the table.

[rainbowskye 102]

When he talks of Mary in his other post it is almost in the sense that he is disgusted by her. It give the vibe that this isn't what he wants to do. He talks about her being with hundreds of men.

 

To me, if this is a legit situation, (and I don't believe it is, but we are all entitled to our individual opinions), he has no business swinging.

 

His wife could be totally bored with what she is getting at home or expressing years of sexual repression.

 

Either way if this is a real situation neither of them are fully ready for this and this is a train wreck waiting to happen.

 

This sounds like something from springer. I can't image any real couple wanting a part of this.

[doug39 80]

DigginIt you are a wise man and really have a talent for reading people.

 

 

My wife had to stay home and take care of her dying mother during her teen years - so she didn't have a normal youth.

 

At 17 she got pregnant by a 28 year old man. Against her father's wishes she married this guy and had her son two weeks after her 18th birthday. She was a stay at home mom and wife until her husband suddenly died when my wife was 22.

 

She spent the next 8 years stuggling to make ends meet and raise her son. She worked a lot and went to school and really didn't date much. During this time she developed a weight problem and blew up to about 250 pounds.

 

I met my wife at a bar when we were both 31. After 9 months of partying and fucking on a regular basis, she got pregnant with our daughter.

 

I did the right thing and stuck by her and we got married and lived a good life - even though we never were really in love. She ballooned up to about 375 pounds. I drank a lot and jacked off a lot - we had sex maybe 5 times a year for many years - she had zero desire for sex and felt unattractive.

 

5 years ago she had gastric bypass surgery and lost over 200 pounds. She now looks great. She feels sexy. She cares about her apperance. She is getting attention from men that she never got before. People treat her different. and the sex is off the hook - we do it at least 10 times a month and it is the best I have ever had.

 

She spent all of her life either tied down with responsibility and/or a fat slob and now, at age 48, she finally feels normal and worthy.

 

This is why I want her to get what she needs to make her happy. I admit that I never fell in love with my wife in the beginning but after 17 years I love her deeply and just want her to be happy - no matter what it takes or what sacrifices I need to make.

[DigginIt 1,132]

Doug...I do not really know what else I can say that would offer any hope or comfort.

 

One thing I have noticed is you have a demeanor that comes across when talking about your wife that isn't flattering. You say that you love her but some of the things you say just make me cringe. In this post you basically said (paraphrasing here)..she spent most of her time as a fat slob in one sentence and while I think you were trying to say she felt that way it's seems to me you felt that way also.

 

I'm not in your shoes, I don't know what you two have been through the last 17 years. I'm summing up my posts from the 20 minutes worth of reading you have placed here on this site. It's not fair to make assumptions with such little to go on but you asked for advice and I'm trying to do the best for you that I can.

 

Love is caring as much for someone when they are 350 lbs as when they are 175lbs. Love is caring for them more when they really need it which was 200 lbs ago. Now I think your wife is searching/finding emotional fulfillment from others. Something that I don't think you have given her very much of over the years for whatever reasons. Some people get that fulfillment from sex\which I don't think is emotionally healthy but I've seen it. Anything you do now may possibly be too little too late.

 

I want you two to pull through but I'm not really sure how you are going to.

[doug39 80]

again DigginIt you are right and make a lot of sense. Your assumptions are probably right. Not good for me, but what can I say?

 

I wasn't always a supportive husband and deserve what I get.

[rainbowskye 102]

It seems like there are more issues than deciding to go through with a Mfm or not!

 

You two need professional help and I do not mean that in a bad way. I you want to save what you have you first have to address the issues that came first.

 

It seems like how you saw her is how she began to feel about herself. I am curious if you took advantage of her low self esteem and verbalized to her what you have here on the forum, I so, sex is an escape for her and it's a matter of time before she gives you the two fingers and says duces to you.

 

Part of loving and caring for Someone is bringing them up not knocking them flat on their behind when they are already down!

 

How much of not having sex when she was overweight was you and not her?

 

I think you need to work on the issues before you bring anyone else into the mix , that would be out of respect for the unsuspecting party.

 

The way you talk of your wife and Mary and women in general is like you have little to no respect for women at all.

 

I wonder what of your own skeletons are driving that or at least the stresser for the negative respect for women?

[doug39 80]

rainbowskye said:

I wonder what of your own skeletons are driving that or at least the stressor for the negative respect for women?

 

I know I have fucked up values due to my upbringing.

 

My father was an racist abusive alcoholic that mentally beat down my mother, my brother and myself and treated us like dirt.

 

I am sure this hasn't helped me any.

[rainbowskye 102]

You have to break the cycle.

 

I've had a verbally abusive husband and guess what ? He is an ex husband. He now has a wife who does the same to him and often times beats him and vice versa. I was able to put my big girl thongs on and cut my losses and move on.

 

I've been through a lot and while being with him was hell, I can tell you that i never let it define me and I have an Incredible life now.

 

I've been through a lot and found myself and my balance And I know what I want and what I will and won't accept from others.

 

I have a feeling your wife is at that point in her life. I think swinging should be the last thing on your mind and seeking help should be the first.

 

If not, this is a no win situation for you. She will see that the verbal abuse isn't the norm and the first man that treats her like a princess will be her breaking point.

[freakyweds69 15]

I (wife) agree with almost all of the other posters. Despite whether or not you are attention seeking the fact of the matter is you have a question and need answers. It seems to me like you and your wife are not on the same page. My dh and I are still new but here is what I have learned so far: First, you always go at the pace of the slowest person & that would be you. Second, you never "take one for the team"; you both have to want & be ready for this to have good experiences. Lastly, you need to be able to make a distinction between sex and love. Set rules that work for you, like no kissing for example, regardless of what anyone else thinks. Once you become more comfortable most of your rules will be dropped anyway. I believe you should bring your wife to this forum if you haven't already and read some threads together then talk things over. Talk, talk, talk! Honesty & communication are the keys to a successful marriage not just successful swinging

[freakyweds69 15]

It seems like there are more issues than deciding to go through with a Mfm or not!

 

You two need professional help and I do not mean that in a bad way. I you want to save what you have you first have to address the issues that came first.

 

It seems like how you saw her is how she began to feel about herself. I am curious if you took advantage of her low self esteem and verbalized to her what you have here on the forum, I so, sex is an escape for her and it's a matter of time before she gives you the two fingers and says duces to you.

 

Part of loving and caring for Someone is bringing them up not knocking them flat on their behind when they are already down!

 

How much of not having sex when she was overweight was you and not her?

 

I think you need to work on the issues before you bring anyone else into the mix , that would be out of respect for the unsuspecting party.

 

I didn't notice there were two pages to this thread and now that I've read everything I have to say that I agree with Mrs. Rainbowskye. I couldnt have put this better myself! Your marriage comes first. Its honorable that you're willing to do whatever it takes to make her happy but it seems you're doing it for the wrong reason. Before you never had to worry about losing her because she was an insecure, "fat slob". Now she's smoking hot and I think you either feel like you owe her this or you're afraid she is just gonna find someone who will treat her better and leave you. Maybe its both? Be honest with yourself. If either are the reason(s) you're entertaining the idea of swinging, don't.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

Reading multiple post over time is like seeing pieces to a puzzle. The longer and more your read to more the puzzle comes together and the more you begin to see that pieces are missing or don't belong.

 

Doug39 your post have been all over the place emotionally and logically. At times you seem excited about the idea of swinging, at others you belittle swingers. You go from excited to depressed, to condescending to self flagellating.

 

To me it does not sound like you are being completely honest with your wife because you are not being completely honest with yourself.

 

At times it sounds like this lifestyle is something you would like to explore but only on your terms, the problem is your have to consider your wife and what she wants. It is time for you to figure out what you want. All in or all out as they say, but stop beating yourself and your wife up over these decisions.

 

If you want out, say so and tell her, put the past in the past and don't look back on what has happened as anything more than a learning experience. If you want to be in the lifestyle then it is time to look yourself in the mirror an admit it. But you also have to understand your wife will have desires as well and you should not stand in the way of those by cherry picking what you get to do and what she gets to do in the lifestyle or by making her feel bad about the choices she makes.

 

I have seen people say the lifestyle broke them up, but I doubt that is the case. Most people have unresolved issues that pull them apart, the lifestyle is just an excuse for not facing those issue, sometimes the lifestyle is an attempt by some to make up for or fix those unresolved issues. That is a recipe for disaster.

 

There are a few things outside your control like your DNA and family and the action of others. But no matter what your DNA is, who your parents where or what the guy next door does, you control how you act and what you say.

 

Figure out what you want. Talk to your wife and listen to what she wants. Sit down and discuss it openly, completely and honestly. Take ownership of your actions and your words and handle it like an adult, without anger or spite, no matter what is said. If you cannot do that then you probably will not have a successful relationship and you certainly cannot swing successfully.

[doug39 80]

The wife and I haven't talked about swinging lately.

 

I really don't want to swing at all.

 

But if my wife does, we will explore it I guess.

 

I am not going to bring it up again or try setting anything up...if she wants to I will just go along and see what happens.

[lovinher 505]

The wife and I haven't talked about swinging lately.

 

I really don't want to swing at all.

 

But if my wife does, we will explore it I guess.

 

I am not going to bring it up again or try setting anything up...if she wants to I will just go along and see what happens.

 

Something tells me there wouldn't be a second time.

I'm rooting for ya though.

[freakyweds69 15]

The wife and I haven't talked about swinging lately.

 

I really don't want to swing at all.

 

But if my wife does, we will explore it I guess.

 

I am not going to bring it up again or try setting anything up...if she wants to I will just go along and see what happens.

 

I really don't think you should force yourself to do something you don't want to do just to make your wife happy. Period. If she loves you then she will understand whether or not she agrees.

 

Why is it that you don't want to swing? Here are some questions you should ask yourself: Is it against your values and morals? If so, are you worried that you might actually like it and you'd be opening Pandora's box if you went through with swinging? Are you the jealous & possessive type and can't imagine seeing your wife with another man? Do you think you will be unable to meet the expectations of your wife and anyone else involved? Do you fear someone performing better than you and your wife never looking at you the same? Do you fear never being able to look at your wife the same? Is it all of the above? If you can get to the root of "why" you are not comfortable with the idea you can probably make some progress from there.

 

Out of curiosity: have you considered letting her swing without you? Is that something you might be comfortable with or would that be even harder for you? As unconventional as it sounds, even here, I recall reading about a gentleman who actually preferred to start out not swinging in the same room as his wife so that he could focus on the woman he was with without worrying about what his wife was doing with the male half of the couple. It makes sense. Different strokes for different folks!

 

Sorry about the 20 questions; I'm just trying to help out as best I can.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,024]

. . . I will just go along and see what happens.

I hope that at least one of you is going to consider the people whom you might involve in this reluctant experiment. Don't you think it is going to cause frustration them?

[doug39 80]

 

Is it against your values and morals?

 

If so, are you worried that you might actually like it and you'd be opening Pandora's box if you went through with swinging?

 

Are you the jealous & possessive type and can't imagine seeing your wife with another man?

 

Do you think you will be unable to meet the expectations of your wife and anyone else involved?

 

Do you fear someone performing better than you and your wife never looking at you the same?

 

Do you fear never being able to look at your wife the same?

 

 

Out of curiosity: have you considered letting her swing without you?

 

Is that something you might be comfortable with?

 

 

Answers:

 

NO

 

NO

 

YES

 

YES

 

YES

 

YES

 

NO WAY

 

NO WAY

[doug39 80]

I hope that at least one of you is going to consider the people whom you might involve in this reluctant experiment. Don't you think it is going to cause frustration them?

 

Why would I consider the other people?

 

Aren't they just sexual objects for my wife's and my pleasure?

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

Why would I consider the other people?

 

Aren't they just sexual objects for my wife's and my pleasure?

 

If you are implying that's the way most swingers feel about their play partners you are misguided.

 

If that's the you really feel about other people I feel sad for you and your wife.

 

Hopefully, this is just something you think is funny. Actually, that is kind of sad too.

[doug39 80]

If you are implying that's the way most swingers feel about their play partners you are misguided.

 

If that's the you really feel about other people I feel sad for you and your wife.

 

Hopefully, this is just something you think is funny. Actually, that is kind of sad too.

 

I was sort of joking.

 

If we ever do swing, we want to get to know the other couple first and take it slow.

[sexcupid 809]

I have also been following along with your different threads and as more pieces of the puzzle come to light, things are beginning to make more sense.

 

You and your wife both have insecurities...many it seems based in/about her weight. Her's probably stemming from being overweight, having an inattentive husband, as well as the life stressors that she experienced (first being a caregiver at such a young age and then 2 marriages borne of pregnancies as well as a period of struggling as a single parent). I'm sure that over the years she has picked up on your...I don't know, disdain? Now, she's lost a bunch of weight, the children are either grown or damn near, and she feels like cutting loose and having a bit of fun. Add to the life changes that come with grown children, the fact that men (and maybe women) are now noticing her in ways they never did before, it probably is quite the ego boost.

 

Your's may be along the lines of now that she's "hot" and other men are noticing her, you may not be her only option. There probably IS someone out there that would treat her better, be a better sex partner, or just be more than what you have been for her the last 17 years (since honestly it comes across that you married her out of a sense of obligation, not that marriage was something in the pipeline for the two of you and the pregnancy accelerated already existing plans). The attentions of others are probably driving some of your insecurity as well because you aren't used to dealing with a wife that has confidence.

 

It may be beneficial for you both to seek counseling services...individually and as a couple, because it seems that you both could use the time during this readjustment.

 

Also just a side note re: drinking....my sister had gastric bypass about 2 years ago and it takes next to nothing as far as quantity for her to get beyond tipsy and to drunk since the surgery. Usually 1 glass of wine will get her toasty...if she drinks more than that, she is pretty sloshed.

[doug39 80]

Sexcupid you are pretty much right on with everything you said. It is as if have known us all our lives!!!

 

We did try counseling a few years back; it didn't seem to help much.

[sexcupid 809]

We did try counseling a few years back; it didn't seem to help much.

 

How to put this...what was your (and her) attitudes going into counseling? Its like why placebo medications 'work'...you have to buy in/believe in the product sometimes to get effect. Counseling is only 1 hour a week...the real work happens outside the counseling session. If you aren't willing to work on things outside of that one hour, how would you expect benefit from it? Counseling is like medication...there is no 'magic pill' that you take once or twice and voila! Life is perfect. Its like being told you have stroke level blood pressure and you take the meds a few times and then wonder why you still had a stroke.

 

Also, keep in mind the situation right now is different than in was a few years ago. To put it more bluntly, if your marriage ended today...would you feel like you did everything possible to keep that from happening?

 

Another point I'm going to make that no one seems to have hit on...y'all are in your late 40s, nearly 50. Would it be scary to you to lose your marriage at this age? Starting over again is intimidating at 30...I really can't imagine that intimidation goes away the old we get (and probably increases on some level because we now don't have that youthful-ish body or looks to offer a potential mate).

 

Bottom line is you as a couple should put the brakes on any swinging related activities. Stop trying to rationalize what a shitty FMF experience you had (because if you peek around here, you will find that maintaining a hard on is a difficulty for many men the first and more times in a playtime situation and God knows many of our playtime experiences have been less than great) and that your wife only did that to some how coerce you into doing a MFM. Many men fantasize about having another woman join them and your wife may have felt she was giving you that experience, regardless of the fact that it didn't play out like a porno.

 

If its something you feel like you really do want to do...then start small, like going to the bar and just flirting with other people. Set some boundaries on it (like no kissing or hugging, but other fleeting touches may be okay) and have regroup times to where its basically not one of you sitting there brooding over your drink while the other goes and flirts up a storm. But realistically, you need to work on yourself before I think even that would be possible without causing a major blow up.

 

Examine some of the black and white thinking you also seem to have. I mean...its like a woman can either be a 'wife' or a 'whore'...with no in between.

[doug39 80]

Thanks for all the good advice. I realize that actually swinging will be nothing like what I currently imagine it is. I know that fantasy can be better than reality.

 

The counseling was for different issues at the time and again you are right, we didn't work hard enough to better things.

 

I am not sure what the future holds with this swinging thing or anything for that matter.

[doug39 80]

Happy New Year all.

 

The wife and I had some hot sex last Thursday.

 

We didn't get a chance to do it again until this afternoon - a quicky.

 

We then went out to that bar where those swingers that we saw online hang out and the fantasy talk began.

 

We then came home and had incredible sex for 3 hours with dildos and vibrators - we did anal vaginal and oral and during the several breaks we took she masturbated. She must have came 50 times.

 

Throughout the whole wild 3 hours she fantasized about being in a room full of guys and all of them fucking the shit out of her in every position and in every hole.

 

I managed to cum twice through the whole thing ( after coming a few hours earlier with the quicky ) it was crazy intense.

 

I need to get this MFM MMFM or whatever going - either to satisfy my wife or to show her that reality ain't as good as fantasy.

 

I told her I really don't care if I ever do another woman or not - it is all about making my wife happy.

[bbarnsworth 2,640]

doug39 said:

I need to get this MFM MMFM or whatever going - either to satisfy my wife or to show her that reality ain't as good as fantasy.

 

Fantasy and reality in swinging don't often match up.

 

But, what are you going to do in the very possible case of your wife thoroughly enjoying having sex with other men? What if she absolutely loves it?

 

There's a joke I've seen around here that goes something like "You drag your wife by the hair to a swingers club, and then you have to drag her by the hair to get her out". It's sexist. But, there's a kernel of truth to it in many cases. I've often heard it said that women are the driving force in swinging, and there's quite a bit of truth to that.

 

You think your wife's fantasies are off the charts. Quite possible. You think the fantasy won't be anything like the reality. VERY possibly true. But, the reality might be absolutely incredible for her, and she may want to do it again and again and again on into infinity.

 

What do you do then?

 

Look, you've said you don't want to swing. ANYone who is experienced in the lifestyle would not play with your wife if they knew that. It's just asking for trouble. LOTS of very experienced people here are telling you NOT to swing. Yet, you are absolutely insistent that if your wife wants to, you will go ahead and let her have sex with other men, against your will, against your better judgment, against virtually everyone here tell you you're making a mistake.

 

There are two possibilities here. You are either playing everyone on this board for a fool, or you are ready and willing to do something catastrophically stupid.

 

I'm reminded of an extremely long thread here a couple of years back where the guy in question kept posting about their fantasies, and how his wife was going to find a young stud and educate him, etc. The thread lasted something like 30 pages. EVERYone was telling him they were making a mistake. They plowed ahead anyway, and permanently screwed up their marriage, with an eight year old girl the innocent victim.

 

If you're playing us for fools, shame on you. The people on this forum are good folk who take time and energy to help people with honest questions. If you're abusing that good will, the karma is on you. It's not a joke, it's just stupid. If you're not playing us for fools, and this ridiculous "Damn my unwillingness to swing, full speed ahead" scenario is somehow true, the karma is still on you.

 

Your marriage has serious problems. It isn't going to be fixed by letting your wife have sex with other men. There's another saying around here that swinging doesn't help or hurt marriages. It's a magnifying glass. What it finds, it magnifies. If there's real love, real commitment, real trust, it magnifies that. If there are problems, it magnifies those.

 

No matter how I look at this, all I see is...

 

[freakyweds69 15]

(1) Are you the jealous & possessive type and can't imagine seeing your wife with another man? (2) Do you think you will be unable to meet the expectations of your wife and anyone else involved? (3) Do you fear someone performing better than you and your wife never looking at you the same? (4) Do you fear never being able to look at your wife the same?

 

If I'm not mistaken all of the above are the questions you answered "yes" to from a previous post of mine & I think it's safe to say they are all common.

 

Jealousy has its own section in this forum so I would read up there if I were you. As far as performance anxiety, if you are pleasing your wife now then you'll please her no matter what and her opinion should be the one that matters most. Not to say that you shouldn't care whether or not you please the other party but if you don't it's not the end of the world. Heck, you may not ever see them again if you choose. The last two are inevitable. You won't ever look at your wife the same & she will never look at you the same. Get used to it now. Just because the way you see each other is different doesn't mean it has to be bad though

 

Why would I consider the other people?

 

Aren't they just sexual objects for my wife's and my pleasure?

 

You should ALWAYS consider the other people because they are in a committed relationship as well & they don't want to risk damaging it. Don't forget that anyone you play with has fantasies of their own that they want fulfilled. So, even if what you stated were true, you'd be "objects" to them as well.

 

[K]eep in mind the situation right now is different than it was a few years ago.

 

This is very true. Marriage needs constant tender loving care. I recommend that you both go back to counseling because it's not meant to just be a quick fix when things get bad. The sex has been great now but that shouldn't be used as a glue to hold your marriage together figuratively speaking. I'm happy to hear that things are going well between you and your wife but there are still latent issues that require attention before your relationship can be 100% successful. Once you're there THEN AND ONLY THEN should you take the plunge into the swinging lifestyle.

[doug39 80]

I am legit - I am not playing any of you as fools.

 

Bottom line - if my wife wants to swing/bang other men and I say no, she may leave me and do her own thing. If I let her swing/bang other men and she loves it so much and she decides she wants to be single and do it all the time - she may leave me anyway.

 

I will not win this.

[rainbowskye 102]

I hope that at least one of you is going to consider the people whom you might involve in this reluctant experiment. Don't you think it is going to cause frustration them?

 

Based on previous posts by the OP, he rarely considers his wife , so I am sure this would be of no concern to him.

[rainbowskye 102]

I am legit - I am not playing any of you as fools.

 

Bottom line - if my wife wants to swing/bang other men and I say no, she may leave me and do her own thing. If I let her swing/bang other men and she loves it so much and she decides she wants to be single and do it all the time - she may leave me anyway.

 

I will not win this.

 

You guys need counseling.

 

If your wife leaves you, it had far more to do than with just sex and you know this already.

 

You have to look inward and fix what is broken in yourselves and in your marriage.

 

Until you are willing to do that, you are destined to fail, and swinging has nothing to do with it.

 

I have a relative who had gastric bypass and they were told in no way shape or form should they be drinking alcohol. Just food for thought.

[ALilOEverything 901]

I will not win this.

 

Giving in to your wife isn't going to make you a winner. Unfortunately it's going to dig you a deeper hole. Swinging ONLY works if it's for the right reasons. Your situation is ultimately for the wrong reasons. Whatever is wrong in your marriage to begin with will be 10 times more wrong if you go through with this. If you don't go through with it then you are just still where are and you haven't lost ground.

 

Marriage counseling would be your best option at this point. She's probably seeing herself as a different person with all her weight loss with a gain of self esteem and self respect. This changes the dynamics of the marriage and a therapist could help the transition.

 

If you try the swinging first and it goes badly (which I'm sure it will), you'll not only be seeing a therapist for the above issues, but also for the hurt and shame issues you two will have added to it.

[doug39 80]

rainbowskye said:

You guys need counseling.

 

If your wife leaves you, it had far more to do than with just sex and you know this already.

 

You have to look inward and fix what is broken in yourselves and in your marriage.

 

Until you are willing to do that, you are destined to fail, and swinging has nothing to do with it.

 

I have a relative who had gastric bypass and they were told in no way shape or form should they be drinking alcohol. Just food for thought.

 

Well whatever.

 

You can sit there and tell me we need counseling. You can tell me not to swing. You can say my wife shouldn't drink after bypass surgery.

 

BUT I HAVE NO POWER TO CHANGE HER MIND, MAKE HER GO TO COUNSELING OR QUIT DRINKING!!! that is why I am here looking for a way to cope!!

[doug39 80]

ALilOEverything said:

If you don't go through with it then you are just still where are and you haven't lost ground.

 

No. if I don't go through with it if my wife wants it, I will lose ground....the ground I live on when we split up.

[rainbowskye 102]

Doug,

 

This is the pattern with you. You are all over the place. Having fantasies followed by hours upon hours of hot sex with 50 orgasms, to not wanting to swing, to going off on swingers, coming back and it all begins again with more and more light into the situation, with more and more drama into it. Now we have insight to you not being a positive influence to your wife when she needed you, weight loss and so on.

 

The truth is, you guys need help. This is a train wreck moments away from happening. Swinging won't stop the wreck from occurring but will give you something to blame the failure of the marriage on, instead of being adults about it and moving on when there was no chance of reconciliation.

 

When we give you advice and it doesn't make you feel warm and fuzzy you almost have a temper tantrum.

 

You are the only one who can find a way to cope with this and I think we've given you all possible advice there is.

 

It seems like you guys are unwilling to work together to save your marriage, and you are looking for something to blame it on, instead if blaming it on yourselves.

 

That's just my opinion.

 

At any rate, I wish you the best, I just don't feel I have any more advice to offer you.