RANT! Lack of reading profiles...and Bi Men

[angelkin 1,326]

 

Sorry, if this offends anyone, but I find the need to vent tonight. I am not here to flame bi men, only the ones who are not honest about it up front and are not reading our profile. It seems to be happening more and more lately and there's been 4 different such scenarios today alone!

 

We are very explicit in our profile about the type of people we are interested in meeting and have carefully worded our profile so there would be no mistaking our sexual preferences...we are both straight, but I (the Mrs.) am bi-comfortable and sometimes more (I list myself as straight and explain in more detail). We clearly state we do not meet bi men and are not interested in male-male play. Now, we're not homophobic (well, maybe hubby is a little), but we are ok with incidental contact in an mfm situation.

 

I know that there is a double standard for bi males in the lifestyle and there is a great deal of discussion about it on this board and other forums. I just think that if all the bi or bi-curious men would just be honest up front on their profile, I think they'd get a lot more action.

 

I am especially frustrated that after carefully stating in our profile that we do not meet bi or bi-curious men that many men who list their orientation as "straight" suddenly admit to being ok or interested in bi male play once we get to the chat stage. Typical scenario: We receive an email from a single guy, if somewhat interested, we invite them to a chat. At some time during the chat, I point blank ask "Are you interested in male-male play?" and miraculously, even after identifying themselves as straight, they say yes, they are into it.

 

I don't care what other people choose to do in their own sex lives, it's just not something we're into...just like we're not into hard-core BDSM, or potty games - it's a preference.

 

I'd just appreciate some honesty up front. I guess I'd have no idea if a bi interested man would answer my question "no" because he saw our profile, but still wanted to play straight. We get a lot of mail and take a look over every profile to see if there is initial interest. It takes a lot of time to read them, reply to them, and chat with people only to find out that we're not into their brand of fun.

 

Read my profile first and then reply ONLY if you fit our interests! Geez people!

 

OK, rant off -THANKS!

[bbarnsworth 2,640]

Plenty of people don't read profiles, and just send contact e-mails hoping for a response. We're very direct about not wanting smokers. Yet, every week we reject at least one smoker.

[StewartP 171]

Hang on. YOU ask THEM if they are into mm play, and when they say yes, you write them off?

 

There is a strong possibility they HAVE read and understood your profile and are willing to comply with your rules. Just like full swap people will rein themselves in when they are with a declared soft swap couple.

 

Do you think they are wolves in sheep's clothing and as soon as they get they chance they are going to suck your husband's cock?

 

Perhaps I misunderstood your post but I think you're out of order here.

[angelkin 1,326]

Maybe I am, Stewart. I can certainly see your point of view and respect you for coming right out and saying it:)

 

However, we feel that since we've clearly stated our interests in our profile that men with bi interest shouldn't contact us at all. Obviously we don't think that if we met them that they'd cross the line, but honesty goes a long way. Straight is straight and bi is bi, and some bi men seem to hide behind the straight category on their profile. We just aren't comfortable meeting bi males, period. How else can we know another's interest if we don't ask since "straight" is listed as their sexual preference on their profile? Why don't they just list it?

[StewartP 171]

I understand your point a lot clearer now

 

I can see how continual failure to read your profile would be frustrating.

But you're a hot looking couple, can't blame the guys for taking thir chances...

[two4youinswva 3,068]

I think you and those males in question may be outwitting each other to the point that it ends with this disappointment.

 

Take a look at it from the single male's perspective:

He's straight, and he's been on the ad site for a while with very little if any success so far.

Suddenly, a couple shows interest. They're listed as straight, so that's cool. He's going to help a husband please his wife for a night. Excellent!

After a little internet conversation, it's looking even more promising. She is interested! Now he's getting excited about this possibility. I'm going to have fun with a couple. Hot damn!

 

Then, she asks the question: "How do you feel about MM play?"

Hmmm. He thinks they are undercover, and want to incorporate some bi play. He's hit the "Whatever it takes" stage, and, whether he intends to play with the male on some level, or try to get away without doing that, he's going to say "I'll do it! I'll do anything dammit!".

 

So, he falls into the trap.

Now you're pissed that he said he'll do MM play.

He's wondering what in the hell he did wrong.

 

If someone is listed as straight, we assume they are straight, and if they aren't straight, they can play that way.

 

Good luck with your future attempts at a hookup!

[angelkin 1,326]

I knew I'd get some opinions here - always can count on people here to speak their minds

 

Perhaps we are going about it the wrong way. Maybe the statement "We're not into mm play" is more fair than the question "Are you into mm play?". I can see how it could easily be misconstrued and morph into the situation that Two4youinswva describes.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

We get frustrated at people not reading our profile as well. It happened all to regularly no matter what the topic. In some cases I can look at our profile and see how someone might ask this or that question, and I try to change our profile to reflect those realizations.

 

But when it is POINT BLANK clear it is truly frustrating.

 

I am not sure if two4youinswva is correct or if those are just bi guys trying to stay "in the closet" so to speak. I actually think the guy willing to do anything would bother me more than the guy trying to stay in the closet. I can someone not advertising they are bi, but the guy willing to do anything just to get laid, has or will likely taken chances that will put us at higher risk. But I do agree with you that I value the honesty in either case.

 

However, you are asking a question that is clearly counter to your profile as stated. Now if I am on the other end of that question I am looking at you as if you guys lied on your profile, so you may be blowing opportunities with the very guys you are looking for.

[wifes_toy 53]

I think the real problem is shades of gray vs black and white. I am strait, not looking for any MM action. However I am bi friendly. So if, under the right circumstances, and the mood strikes all involved I MAY consent to some MM interaction. So on a scale of 0 (homophobic) to 10 (flaming gay) I am a 1 or 2 at the most.

 

Also keep in mind that some times a person or couple may want to step out side of established parameters. So even if both you and the other say "strait" on the profile it does not preclude a "HMM I wonder, or lets play this out" moment.

 

Also I have seen many out of date profiles. That is what the chat stage is fore. Where are you at RIGHT NOW. Talk or chat it out. COMMUNICATE! and all will have a good time.

[Playful1 434]

I have to agree with previous posters. When you ask them if they are looking for male-male play, after saying in your profile that you aren't interested in that...well, I sure as hell would read that as you being undercover.

 

Why? Because so many are. Stop asking them that. Make your interests clear in the profile, and even again during chat, so it's clear. If they list as straight and are still interested, then relax and have fun.

[wisconsin 58]

Let me tell you something from our experience.

 

My hubby is bi and we have it clearly stated in our profile. We do know a lot of people in LS who says they are very straight in their profile and not interested in any bi male play, however we know otherwise. They are gladly willing to suck a cock when we start talking more in details about play activities. They are not just willing to let somebody suck them they are interested in playing with a cock.

 

Whenever they are asked they say they are straight guys who would like to suck a cock once in a while. Go figure...

[angelkin 1,326]

Having posted this and reading some of the replies, I had a frank discussion with hubby about our current approach. We see now how asking the question about bi m play can be viewed as an invitation to play that way...so we don't want that. We also would not want someone to compromise their preferences in order to take part in a threesome as in the way two4youinswa described.

 

I also pointed out to him that he is living in a world of double standards...it's ok for the ladies, but not for the men. Bi does mean BOTH after all...he sees how I play as a straight woman but from time to time do enjoy the taste and feel of another woman. But, I still identify as straight. Using wifes_toy's scale I fall as a maybe a 3. Hubby is a definite 0.

 

I think this was a breakthrough discussion for us. I love that the people here give us such interesting a fresh perspectives that give us reason for pause and sometimes a shift in mindset. I feel like perhaps his position has changed a bit...which is a very good thing.

[mntoklahoma 16]

Congratulations on getting through what might end up being a milestone in your relationship and how you look at swinging.

 

It is always refreshing and less frustrating to realize you need to look at situations differently and keep a open mind to change some.

 

I think the more time spent in the lifestyle allows us to be more educated and mature about the whole thing.

 

Good for you both.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

I think this was a breakthrough discussion for us. I love that the people here give us such interesting a fresh perspectives that give us reason for pause and sometimes a shift in mindset. I feel like perhaps his position has changed a bit...which is a very good thing.

 

I gave this thread a 5-Star rating, because I think it does as good a job telling the story of what swingersboard is all about as any direct description.

 

You were frustrated with a situation, but open to ideas and feedback. The members gave positive and helpful insights, and you both took what was shared, discussed it, and have a plan to incorporate the ideas into your approach.

 

We don't even know how many people this will help down the road as they pull this thread up (and I do intend to make sure it gets archived when the time comes).

 

Thanks for sharing your irritation and frustrations so we could help. I see great success in your future swinging attempts!

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

I think you and those males in question may be outwitting each other to the point that it ends with this disappointment.

 

Take a look at it from the single male's perspective:

He's straight, and he's been on the ad site for a while with very little if any success so far.

Suddenly, a couple shows interest. They're listed as straight, so that's cool. He's going to help a husband please his wife for a night. Excellent!

After a little internet conversation, it's looking even more promising. She is interested! Now he's getting excited about this possibility. I'm going to have fun with a couple. Hot damn!

 

Then, she asks the question: "How do you feel about MM play?"

Hmmm. He thinks they are undercover, and want to incorporate some bi play. He's hit the "Whatever it takes" stage, and, whether he intends to play with the male on some level, or try to get away without doing that, he's going to say "I'll do it! I'll do anything dammit!".

 

So, he falls into the trap.

Now you're pissed that he said he'll do MM play.

He's wondering what in the hell he did wrong.

 

If someone is listed as straight, we assume they are straight, and if they aren't straight, they can play that way.

 

Good luck with your future attempts at a hookup!

 

I chat with lots of single guys and agree with this completely. You should not ask them if they will play bi if you don't want that. They think that's what you are looking for.

 

If you really want to pursue the topic in chat you could do this: You could ask them if they've ever had a male-male experience. Ask if they liked it. Tell them you are not into that. See what they say. Just because someone has had an experience in the past doesn't make them bi. Just because they're willing to try it for a hot woman, doesn't make them bi.

 

I would just reiterate during chat "no MM play" and then have a hot mfm!!

 

Good luck!

[angelkin 1,326]

I gave this thread a 5-Star rating, because I think it does as good a job telling the story of what swingersboard is all about as any direct description.

 

You were frustrated with a situation, but open to ideas and feedback. The members gave positive and helpful insights, and you both took what was shared, discussed it, and have a plan to incorporate the ideas into your approach.

 

We don't even know how many people this will help down the road as they pull this thread up (and I do intend to make sure it gets archived when the time comes).

 

Thanks for sharing your irritation and frustrations so we could help. I see great success in your future swinging attempts!

 

Wow, glad our experiences and frustration will serve some use. This is a great forum and I am often grateful for the fantastic advice and viewpoints offered here. Thanks everyone!

[DigginIt 1,132]

I'm kind of in agreement with Angelkin's first post without any compromises.

 

If someone really did read our profile (and knowing that lot's of bi men lie in their profiles so they are not precluded from any options) I think it's fine to ask.

 

You say in your profile very clearly about no bi or bi curious men so if they read your profile and then fess up after asking then 'next!'

 

When someone writes us...the first thing we do is we read their profile before sending an answer. We want to make sure their is commonality.

[corynlaine 118]

I have to agree with several other posts here. You seem to be setting yourself up for failure. May I suggest our process if this is such an issue for you.

 

We list as bi-curious because even though we've never had any bi experiences, part of our interest in the Lifestyle IS to try to do things you can't do with just each other and to us that includes the possibility of playing with the same sex.

 

We're up front about it and, honestly we think that the male homophobia is a large part of why we have not hooked up. BUT we're up front about it and we expect other to be as well - This is why you or any other straight straight couple has NEVER received an e-mail from us.

 

HOWEVER - we get contacted by bi/bicurious female and straight male ALL THE TIME.

 

One of the first things I do we with these e-mails is simply reply back with something like - Thanks for contacting us, we're flattered that you found us interesting, but before we go further, have you read our profile and can you tell us what your thought are on our desires and how they fit yours.

 

This seems to weed out a large part of the e-mails who didn't bother to read our profile. Then we're left with those who can't explain why they feel the need to be dishonest. We have ZERO issues with what you are or are not into. But one of the ways we mitigate the inherent risks associated with this Lifestyle is expectation of honesty.

 

Now I know that people still lie, but I simply CAN NOT wrap my head around why on earth would people think we'd be willing to get in bed with them if they can not be even honest about their desires in a place like this.

[slevin 1,374]

However I am bi friendly. So if, under the right circumstances, and the mood strikes all involved I MAY consent to some MM interaction. So on a scale of 0 (homophobic) to 10 (flaming gay) I am a 1 or 2 at the most.

 

I find it interesting that your scale starts at homophobic, then the next level up from that involves male-male interaction. So there is no such thing as a straight guy who isn't homophobic based on your perspective?

[Chicup 41]

If they are so hard up they SAY they are into MM play, even if they are not, then you don't want them.

 

I think its a perfectly good question to ask them directly. The reasons for why they say yes is unimportant.

 

I know that if a very very attractive couple contacted us and then chatted 'are you into MM' I'd say no even if it meant that perhaps they were.

[angelkin 1,326]

I find it interesting that your scale starts at homophobic, then the next level up from that involves male-male interaction. So there is no such thing as a straight guy who isn't homophobic based on your perspective?

 

Not my scale...just using someone else's example

[angelkin 1,326]

If they are so hard up they SAY they are into MM play, even if they are not, then you don't want them.

 

I think its a perfectly good question to ask them directly. The reasons for why they say yes is unimportant.

 

I know that if a very very attractive couple contacted us and then chatted 'are you into MM' I'd say no even if it meant that perhaps they were.

 

That is EXACTLY what my husband says:)

[StewartP 171]

If they are so hard up they SAY they are into MM play, even if they are not, then you don't want them.

 

I think its a perfectly good question to ask them directly. The reasons for why they say yes is unimportant.

 

I know that if a very very attractive couple contacted us and then chatted 'are you into MM' I'd say no even if it meant that perhaps they were.

 

How do you know they are not into it? How do you know they are hard up or desperate? I think you've completely missed the point.

 

Here's the scenario:

A couple who are bi-curious. They read the profile. They see and understand it says "no bi play" That's not a problem, they are happy to adapt. People who are bi are no more prone to force themselves on anyone else. If they do, it's not their bisexuality that's at fault, it's their pushy personality in general.

Anyway, they make contact. The profile owners ask are you into MM play?

"are you into MM play?" That's the question as I understand it from the thread so far.

What do you want them to reply Chicup? In your model of a world brutally and consistently honest and up front?

What are they to think from that question? That the owners of the profile DO want MM play? Maybe they are curious and the profile doesn't reflect that? Why would the profile owners even ask, since their profile states that they aren't? Surely the asking of the question indicates curiosity?

So the couple answer, yes they are.

How are you then to read that no they aren't, they're just so desperate they're saying yes, just in case?

 

I'm sorry, by asking the question "Are you into MM play?" the confusion comes from the asker.

 

Surely it is better to say "We are not into MM play", "Have you read and understood our profile, we are not into MM play"

 

You might just as well assume that people who answer "No" are lying and are desperate and hard up and will sneak some nasty bisexual moves on you later.

[Chicup 41]

How do you know they are not into it? How do you know they are hard up or desperate? I think you've completely missed the point.

 

I think in this case, no I didn't miss the point.

 

The OP does not want to play with a bi-male PERIOD, its not a 'no bi play' its a 'no bi men'.

 

As such if they say 'Are you into MM' and the guy says 'Yes', then hey they have their answer. Either this guy IS bi (which they don't want) or so hard up for pussy hes willing to pretend to be bi to get some (which to me is something you don't want in swinging).

[StewartP 171]

The mere ASKING of the question is confusing and I think most people would see it as curiosity about MM play.

 

In fact it is being used as a test, a test to see if the guy has read (and remembers) the profile.

 

If the OP's husband is so distrusting of Bi men that he feels he has to flush them out with pop questions then, sure, mission accomplished.

[slevin 1,374]

Not my scale...just using someone else's example:)

 

If you're referring to the Kinsey scale, then it refers to zero being heterosexual, not homophobic.

 

Kinsey scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[angelkin 1,326]

If you're referring to the Kinsey scale, then it refers to zero being heterosexual, not homophobic.

 

Kinsey scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Thanks for the link...but someone else in the thread introduced the 0-10 scale as an example, I just incorporated it.

[DigginIt 1,132]

If the OP's husband is so distrusting of Bi men that he feels he has to flush them out with pop questions then, sure, mission accomplished.

 

LOL, I look at it like a job interview and what they write on their resume should be honest

 

Seriously, if it was just one night of sex at a club then the 'bi' thing wouldn't be much of a big deal as long as they respected my boundaries. They might ask and I would respond 'fuck no' and then it would be over with.

 

We look for long term swingships and like Angelkin...our preference is that we want straight guys. If my profile says straight guys with lots of emphasis about no bi men then by god bi men shouldn't respond. If they do then they don't respect us very much to begin with and we don't want to play with them.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

The mere ASKING of the question is confusing and I think most people would see it as curiosity about MM play.

 

I agree. If someone has a profile that says they are straight and directly ask "are you into mm play," I would wonder if they are asking to see if my profile was a lie or if they were asking because their profile was a lie and were looking for bi play. If it were the latter I would then wonder what else they could be lying about.

 

There are subtle ways to determine if people are lying on their profiles during chat and conversation without putting yourself in the position of looking like you are lying.

 

At the end of the day I lying to us about anything is a sure fire way to cool us off of couple no matter what the lie is about because it always calls into question everything they have said. I would not ask the question are you into to MM play just because I know how I would perceive someone asking that of me. But I would ask other questions over the course of the conversation that would lead me to figure out if someone was lying or not.

[Lascivious L&L 866]

Here is the line from angelkin I think is most important: "...we are both straight, but I (the Mrs.) am bi-comfortable and sometimes more (I list myself as straight and explain in more detail)."

 

Angelkin considers herself straight, yet seems as if she engages in some form of bi play, if I read this correctly. Yet she and her husband would not consider a man who felt exactly the same way as angelkin does as far as being straight.

 

On this board there have been heated discussions about whether a man can call himself straight if he ever enjoys anything that is male to male. As I understand angelkin, she considers herself straight even though she enjoys being bi-comfortable and sometimes more.

 

I fully understand angelkin calling herself straight, and I've argued in the past that a man can consider himself straight even if he has engaged (and enjoyed) male to male contact.

 

The point for angelkin is that your husband seems not willing to consider playing with a couple whose man who feels exactly the same way you do toward bisexuality.

[angelkin 1,326]

The point for angelkin is that your husband seems not willing to consider playing with a couple whose man who feels exactly the same way you do toward bisexuality.

 

Yep, we do have differing opinions on what bisexuality is. He recognizes there is a double standard and even admits to being obstinate in his stance on this topic. I can't change the way he feels - feelings are not right or wrong, they just exist. As a part of a couple, I foremost must respect his feelings and honor his wishes in this respect. He is softening his position a bit, which in my opinion is a move in the right direction - albeit a small step.

 

I am certain this will continue to be a source of discussion on and off and based on the replies to this thread, we have agreed to modify our approach. The preference itself will never change and I respect that boundary in our swinging activities. I can understand his point of view, despite whether or not I agree with it wholeheartedly.

 

We learn as we go, learn from experiences as well as from listening (reading) others' opinions. Heck, we've only been doing this 1.5 years and already we know so much more about ourselves and our desires than we did in the beginning. We work through bumps in the road together, sometimes agreeing to disagree. That's what marriage is all about - acceptance, compromise, and communication.

[prairieshadows 95]

We have profiles on SLS and other sites, and we can understand where your coming from with your frustration about not reading profiles. We don't usually get guys who are interested in mm play. What we have issues with, is we've put on our profiles be it either our couples profiles or in her profiles that she has set up as well, as for guys who want to add us or her, that they do NOT have a cock pic as their profile picture, because when we want to get to know them to possibly join us, we want to know them as a person, not their cock. And some of them get all bent out of shape when we refuse their friend request.

[JB 140]

Here is my fun dilemma, we both think that it is super hot to perform any oral while being penetrated. She loves going down on the female while I am inside of (the female).

 

Mrs. -jb- expressing that same interest to me, i.e. telling me she would love to have my mouth on her while someone was inside her, brings up a whole new problem…is that being bi?

 

After all, there may be incidental oral contact there.

 

We actually changed our profile so that we both said “bi” for that reason. We later changed it back due to everyone telling us that that was not really being “bi”.

 

The great side effect of that time period was it really filtered out the single guys, and uptight couples.

 

So really into the “grey area” definitions. BTW we are full swap as a preference, but played soft swap two weeks ago…

[DigginIt 1,132]

Mrs. -jb- expressing that same interest to me, i.e. telling me she would love to have my mouth on her while someone was inside her, brings up a whole new problem…is that being bi?

 

I wouldn't really call that 'bi' but it's definitely out of the realm of my comfort as a guy.

 

I'd say it depends on the situation, the couple, etc.

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

Here is my fun dilemma, we both think that it is super hot to perform any oral while being penetrated. She loves going down on the female while I am inside of (the female).

 

Mrs. -jb- expressing that same interest to me, i.e. telling me she would love to have my mouth on her while someone was inside her, brings up a whole new problem…is that being bi?

 

After all, there may be incidental oral contact there.

 

We actually changed our profile so that we both said “bi” for that reason. We later changed it back due to everyone telling us that that was not really being “bi”.

 

The great side effect of that time period was it really filtered out the single guys, and uptight couples.

 

So really into the “grey area” definitions. BTW we are full swap as a preference, but played soft swap two weeks ago…

 

I also don't think it's bi, since your focus is on pleasing your wife. But it is super-hot! Your best bet to have this happen though is going to be playing with a bi or bi-curious guy. I would just make it known up front specifically what you are wanting to do and that you are not interested in other m/m contact (unless you are indeed looking for that).

[angelkin 1,326]

JB, I couldn't consider that bi - but hubby feels it's just too close for comfort.

 

Interesting that I have the same wish - that a man be licking me while another is inside me. Hubby said "no way", but we will do it the next time we entertain another lady...the sensation ought to be the same, right?

[wifes_toy 53]

Not my scale...just using someone else's example:)

 

Sorry, made it up on the spot. I guess the curve should shift up a bit. How about:

 

0 homophobic

1 can stand to be in a locker room shower

2 can stand to be in a MFM but no touching ever

3 MFM with SOME contact

4 not sure who is touching me under the covers but is OK

5 just this once for the hell of it I am OK with oral

6 sure I will do a guy once in a while

7 skin is skin, I swing both ways

8 I guess I will do the wife if he will let me play with him too

9 I see the guy first

10 touching a woman is gross!

 

To me it is all shades of gray!