Am I bad because I swing without spouse?

[sweetandspicy 15]

I am new to this site but in a short time have found very compassionate people here. My situation is that my husband has a very low sex drive after brain cancer years back. We have been working on improving it and while we have come far, it is not enough for me. I thought it was until about 6 months ago. A stranger came into my store and ignited a fire in me that I could not put out.

 

I never saw him again, but could not control my sex drive. I talked with God for months until, in a weak moment I found Adult Friend Finders. I looked at one profile and did not go back for a month. When I did, I found an invitation for a chat from this man. I truly believe God sent him. What are the odds that the only profile I would read would turn out to be my wonderful lover. I could go on about the other uncanny things we are both into but it would take too long.

 

He gives me things my husband could never. If I talk dirty to my husband he goes flaccid. Hubby prefers sex in the dark under the sheets. My lover, ooh, my lover likes to talk dirty to me. He is 13 years my junior and tells me how I have a great body for a 20 year old even though I am 55 (work out, ladies!).

 

He is shorter than me but I don't mind. Everything he told me before we met was the truth and when I did see him for the first time I walked up to him and planted a very sexy kiss on his very receptive mouth. He turned me on in emails before we met like he already knew me.

 

I do not feel guilty. I really thought I would. But I cannot give up this man (he's divorced) until he finds a woman that can give him what he needs in a spouse. Then I'll let him go. If I'm lucky she'll still let me play with him, but I don't think many marriages that start that way.

 

Am I bad?

[StewartP 171]

From your post on the "disability" thread:

there came a time recently, after being a virtuous wife, where I got totally turned on by a stranger to the point that my knees got weak. I spent many days talking with God and finally told my husband that I loved him but could not go the rest of my life without hot feverish sex. He was not happy.

 

Back to the topic: No, my husband would not want me to have sex without him. I, on the other hand have a different view.

 

So, does your husband know you have a lover? If not, if you are lying to him and cheating on him then have a good long think about that squares up with what you think God might or might not like.

 

If your husband knows, and he's OK with it, I don't see anyone being hurt, so I don't see any "bad"

 

On the issue of what's "bad" and what's not, it's no good asking us for approval of your actions. If you believe in a god, and believe you have his moral teachings written down somewhere well, that's the place to go to find your answers.

 

I am no longer a believer in any gods. My moral codes run along the lines of "don't do any harm" and "don't be a dick".

 

I don't always succeed! I'd hate to derail the thread on issues of faith and belief but I think the question "am I bad" takes us down that road.

[Guest Aching]

Only you can answer that.

 

Almost everyone needs the kind of feeling that comes from sexual satisfaction, however it happens. No feeling is as good as the one that comes when a man and a woman are feeling the touch and wetness that comes from vaginal penetration and ultimately both of them losing control in the exquisite feeling of orgasm. When you are just reaching the "point of no return", that moment when you are about to lose control of your body and mind, there is no right or wrong, just that feeling of total pleasure, and you can't stop it and wouldn't if you could. You just want it to go on and on and never stop, until finally you are totally spent.

 

So is there a bad side?

 

Anyone can rationalize either good or bad. My theory is that nothing has been changed and no one has been hurt. You are still a woman, and still married to the same man. Your lover is still the same person.

 

Only the opinions of others can cause you to feel guilty or not, and what do others matter? Only your feelings matter. So if you are comfortable and enjoy the experience, then realize that it is a normal, human need and enjoy the moment and never try to justify it or condemn it. It happened, it felt good, and it's over. You can't take it back and neither can your lover and why would you want to?

 

So don't feel guilty when you've just experienced physical pleasure.

[Learning 160]

Well, if you have the full consent of your husband you are a swinger. If he doesn't know, you are simply are cheating in him and not a swinger.

[lustylearning 705]

...in a weak moment I found Adult Friend Finders...

 

These words I found most interesting. Sex is grand, fun, invigorating... blah blah blah... but it does not possess the power or significance you assign it. Are you bad... are you really going to allow adult, consensual sexuality to determine that?

 

If your husband is aware and okay with it, why are you so angsty?

[rainbowskye 102]

I agree with learning.

 

Regardless of the reason for doing it, if your husband doesn't know about it, it is cheating.

 

And that is what it sounds like it is to me, or you wouldn't have a reason to question it, as your husband would be okay with it.

 

It seems like you need to have a conversation with your husband,

[rainbowskye 102]

I think a post in another thread gives more clarity.

 

I have lived this for nearly 15 years. We had just started to swing when my hubby got brain cancer. To make a long story short, after a very long and dreadful time he is much better now. But one of the side effects is his loss of sex drive. We are working on that and we have come pretty far, but there came a time recently, after being a virtuous wife, where I got totally turned on by a stranger to the point that my knees got weak. I spent many days talking with God and finally told my husband that I loved him but could not go the rest of my life without hot feverish sex. He was not happy.

 

He has been trying and I still love his body and what he can do with his amazing tongue, but, and I would love help with this, please, if anyone can, he has developed a very un-arousing habit of giggling uncontrollable when I approach him. Last night I went to unzip his pants so I could blow him. It got so bad we played scrabble instead.

 

Back to the topic: No, my husband would not want me to have sex without him. I, on the other hand have a different view. I would encourage him and, to be a part of it, I would like him to tell me all about it, after all, good sex starts in the mind. Pictures and videos would be a plus!

[two4youinswva 3,068]

I do not feel guilty.

I don't think you're being honest with yourself. I think you are feeling some guilt, because you end the same paragraph with this question:

Am I bad?

 

I can't judge you one way or the other. I don't know what it would be like to be in your situation. I would like to believe that I could work through the issues with my spouse, but without being in the situation, it's easy for me to believe this.

 

In the end, it is almost certain that if your husband doesn't know yet, he will find out. If he doesn't approve (which you indicated in the other thread), he will be hurt. You will have to deal with that.

 

Good luck!

[Chicup 42]

I talked to God, and all he gave me was a lousy Bears season. I mean come on God!

 

Seriously, you think God sent you someone to cheat on your husband? He answered your prayers with cock?

 

I'm really having a hard time with this story because it seems to be something I'd expect from a 20 something year old not a 50 something year old who's spouse survived brain cancer.

 

So are you bad? Maybe, we don't have the full picture here.

 

What you are though is trying everything you can to justify your infidelity and apparently looking for some sort of either validation or perhaps even condemnation to make yourself feel better. You already know your answer without asking.

[bbarnsworth 2,652]

This isn't swinging. It's cheating. Pure and simple. There's no "But..." on this. It's cheating. If this is "swinging" then half of all adults in western society are swingers, because half of all adults cheat on their marriage at some point.

 

You and your husband have a serious problem in your marriage. It isn't going to be solved by you having sex with another man behind your husband's back. I don't have any answers for how you can solve the problems with your husband, as I've never been in your shoes. You might consider getting in contact with a sex surrogate. Being close to New York City, you should have no problem finding a number of sex surrogates to assist you and your husband work through your sexual problems. If you don't know what a sex surrogate is, do some research on the term.

[sweetandspicy 15]

Thank you. I believe you are all right in many ways. Perhaps I thought that my years of fidelity somehow made it OK. And perhaps I was feeling guilty about not feeling guilty.

 

Thank you, Rainbowskye, I am at my wits end. I would go to the ends of the earth for my husband but I am finding some mountains difficult to climb.

 

And to Chicup, like I said about it somehow being OK, you are right. I am looking for a way to rationalize something I would never have considered doing before. I'd also like you to know I was an Atheist until 1987. My husband is Catholic. I bought a bible to prove that there isn't a God. I have read every page, even the begattings. It wasn't long before very strange things began to happen that changed my mind completely. It was a little twist on "Seek and ye shall find". Did he send me a lover? Someday I will tell you how my husband was dropped on my doorstep. To this day I believe he is a godsend, even for all the trials and tribulations we have faced (he has Lupus, too, which has brought on a slew of other problems). So why not a lover?

 

So, clearly, I am bad. Didn't mean to be, I became weak. I know I need to make this right but I don't think I am strong enough to go the rest of my life like this.

[bob35 187]

The situation all depends on the terms of the relationship with your husband.

 

IF it was agreed that it was to be a physically monogamous relationship then you get to clean it up by coming clean with him about what happened.

 

In the process you may want to renegotiate the terms of your relationship so that it does not become an issue in your relationship with your husband.

 

It becomes cheating ONLY when you break the agreed terms of the relationship with your husband. Only the two of you can determine what those terms consist of.

 

In our ( US ) culture it is 99.99% assumed that a marriage is to be physically exclusive. That is where so many relationships fail. The people involved are assuming something based on the culture without actually discussing it.

 

The cheating comes into play when you do something to break an agreement or go against your prior word. That creates a breakdown in trust.

 

No relationship can survive without total trust between the parties involved.

 

I have had this discussion with numerous people when they have caught or been caught by their partners cheating. The primary issue in most cases was the breakdown of trust, with only a small amount being the actual physical act. Granted it took a LOT of talking in some cases for that to be revealed but the broken agreement / trust was the primary problem.

 

Another thing of major importance if you have broken a monogamy agreement with your husband is to own the breakdown not trying to shift the blame onto him. It was your breakdown that caused it despite the facts of his condition. By owning and acknowledging the breakdown you can then start to rebuild the relationship and in the process possibly negotiate new terms of your relationship so that your needs can be handled with integrity.

 

Whether those needs are handled by / with your husband or others is all part of the renegotiation of your relationship.

[sweetandspicy 15]

I don't know where to begin.

 

15 years is a long, long time. We talked often about sex during this time. We have discussed our problem with all of his doctor's. We have heard everything from "Let's try a new med" to the worst "It is what it is".

 

The best thing that happened was finding a Naturpath who helped my husband get off the drugs. He is so much better now. His headaches are few and far between. He doesn't pass out as much. We still have big problems with his memory. I don't think we can fix that, just deal with it.

 

Don't ever believe "It is what it is" Don't give up. If you love someone you never give up.

 

15 years is a long, long time. I broke. Not him, I do not blame him at all.

 

I know the difference between cheating and swinging.

 

I logged on to this site hoping it would inspire him to look around a little, chat with a few people, stir things up a bit. I enjoyed going to clubs back in the day when I could watch another woman blow him. We both enjoyed ourselves very much.

 

I know what I am doing is wrong. I have been trying to turn my husband on since the first ok from the doctors. I have been patient. I keep the lines of communication open with my husband. I really thought at one time I could go without sex forever. I told him when I felt it was no longer true. I told him (it sounds so crass in black and white, but the whole conversation was more sensitive) I was at a point where I needed the touch of a man.

 

He has tried. We have fooled around 3 times successfully in the last 3 months. Once was hot. Twice I know he was going through the motions to appease me. The other times we tried, well, let's just say things got in the way. But this is truly progress.

 

Like I said, 15 years is a long time, but I never give up. I slipped and fell, now I'll pick myself back up.

 

Before I go, I would greatly and gratefully appreciate suggestions (not viagra, we tried) for us to overcome this or at least push it farther ahead. For now, I am going to try to convince him to go to a club this coming weekend. We have been talking about it for about 2 months. Since the hot sex. Glad he remembers that.

 

Thanks to all!

[bbarnsworth 2,652]

I know what I am doing is wrong.

 

Ok, let's back up a bit here.

 

The only people who can decide what you are doing is wrong are you and your husband. If you take the same situation and approach a variety of different sets of people, you can get reactions varying from "You will burn in hell for the carnal sin of oral sex", to "Really? That's awesome! You go girl!" and everything in between.

 

It is not more fair for us to sit in judgment of you cheating on your husband than it is for the vanilla world to sit in judgment of swingers. Their 'sin' is our pleasure. There are plenty of people who feel very much the same with regards to cheating. I don't stand with such a philosophy, but I am not going to attempt to apply my sense of right and wrong to them or you and declare you 'bad'.

 

The vast majority of swingers despise cheating because it is very antithetical to the whole idea of swinging. Swinging is a together activity, even when playing solo. It's wide open communication, utter trust, total willingness to help your partner achieve the pinnacle of satisfaction in their lives. Cheating isn't any of those things and is directly against it. So we here are very quick to view cheating as something we don't and can never do. I think we're also a bit hypersensitive to it because the vanilla world often views swinging as cheating, even though it isn't.

 

So, we can't decide for you whether to feel bad or not. I can tell you, and did, that cheating isn't the way to fix your marriage. I think that's what most of us are getting at.

 

Before I go, I would greatly and gratefully appreciate suggestions (not viagra, we tried) for us to overcome this or at least push it farther ahead. For now, I am going to try to convince him to go to a club this coming weekend. We have been talking about it for about 2 months. Since the hot sex. Glad he remembers that.

Thanks to all!

 

Ok, DON'T go. You ARE welcome here. This board in general is very welcoming to all types, even if you're not a swinger. So long as you are honest and not trolling (I'm confident you're not), you're quite welcome here.

 

Going to a club might be fun. There's a sage piece of advice in going out to a swing club; don't expect anything other than to have a pleasant evening. Don't get your expectations up of X, Y and Z happening. Usually, B, G, a smattering of L and some R happens. Seriously, just go with the idea of having a pleasant evening with your husband. Whatever else happens is bonus.

 

My best suggestion for you is what I posted earlier; seek out a sex surrogate. These people are counselors of a different type, and can dramatically help couples with serious in-bedroom issues. The term "sex surrogate" is a partial misnomer. They don't necessarily have sex with their clients. Instead, they directly aid a couple in working through intimacy problems the couple is experiencing. Most sex surrogates have professional certifications in counseling and/or psychology. They can also help coordinate counseling with other trained professionals. As in any field, there will be good ones and bad ones. You live near NYC, so you should have no problem finding a multitude of sex surrogates.

[sweetandspicy 15]

Thanks BBarnsworth. I didn't cheat to fix my marriage, it was strictly to fix me. I'd like you to know that hubby and I have had a few real deep conversations today. I started the "thread" but he has been actively involved in keeping it going. We still have memory issues, but patience perseveres.

 

My goal is to get my husband to want sex again. At this point I know he is not willing to go to a therapist. At least he is open to working this problem out with me. Today we have a bedroom date, after our chores are done. His suggestion. This is real progress and I am a happy woman.

 

As for the clubs, I never expect anything except to meet a few nice people who share similar views about sex. For my husband, I would like to show him (remind him) that there are lots of fun ways to play and the visual stimulus would be a good thing.

 

I will not deny that my ultimate goal is for both of us to be playing with other people. Together. We were really enjoying ourselves and I hope we can again. Until then we will take baby steps (sometimes over and over again). Maybe things will never get back to the way they were.

 

As for leaving, I meant the thread. I think I was looking for the little ass kicking. I will do the right thing. The site I like a lot and will remain and learn.

 

Thanks again!

[weloveeachother 29]

At first glance, I thought this thread was going to be one of the biggest train wrecks ever. As it has evolved, there has been some great advice given.

 

My only advice is, as others have stated, be honest and open and communicate all of this with your husband. It really sounds like he is trying and you have a good thing here.

[tribbles 490]

If my partner goes vegan, I might not follow into that lifestyle. If my partner goes celibate, I might not follow into that lifestyle either!

 

Would my vegan partner accept me eating non-vegan out of his/her eyesight? Would my celibate partner accept me having sex out of his/her eyesight?

 

People do divorce over diets. People divorce over sex. People also manage to stay together and let each partner find what they need or want in ways that do not prevent love and happiness in the relationship.

 

May you find what works for the two of you to both be happy and content.

[sweetandspicy 15]

At first glance, I thought this thread was going to be one of the biggest train wrecks ever. As it has evolved, there has been some great advice given.

 

My only advice is, as others have stated, be honest and open and communicate all of this with your husband. It really sounds like he is trying and you have a good thing here.

 

Ah , the train wreck was years ago:), we got through that, thankfully and we are getting through this. The past two days have been emotional to say the least, but most of it has been good, some of it has been great. Seems we're one for one. Now he doesn't have to hold on to that secret either.

 

One regret I have is not finding this site first. I may have found the strength here I needed not to succumb to...I'm not sure how to describe that intense desire...the female version of blue balls?

 

Yes, honesty is the best policy. It may be difficult, but I know we both feel better now.

[StewartP 171]

Honesty is the best policy!

 

I've been chatting online to a woman in her late 4à's her husband has zero sex drive and they have no intimacy at all. They have been married for 20+ years, have 2 adult children and a late lamb of 12 years old.

 

I first met her on another forum, to do with living in France. Something I wrote echoed with her, we started private mailing and after a while I told her that Fiona and I were swingers.

 

She subscribed to the same swing contact we are with, and all the attention she has been getting has done her a world of good. She still feels a little at sea here in France so her first hook up will be with me. We will meet mid-February in a town half way between us.

 

Fiona is OK for this to go ahead (we have both played alone before with each other's consent) and I insisted her husband be on board too. She says that he held up his hand and said "do whatever you have to do".

 

The point of all this is that two people can come together for some recreational sex that does everybody some good, provided everybody is in the loop and OK with it.

[DigginIt 1,132]

I agree with a lot of the advice given but on this note:

 

I truly believe God sent him. What are the odds that the only profile I would read would turn out to be my wonderful lover.

 

I don't know about AFF but most of those sites has a "who's viewed me" option. I have not been on AFF in a while but what are the chances that he saw that you looked at his profile and reached out to you? I don't think God sent him. I think he saw you looked at his profile and jumped on the opportunity to feed on your interest.

 

Anyone familiar with AFF enough to know if that option is on that site? Maybe I'm wrong on that.

 

My final thoughts are in line with others which is basically anything without the consent of your spouse is cheating and dishonors him and yourself.

[bob35 187]

Based on the OP's responses it was a matter of making poor choices on how to deal with the situation. At this point it appears that she has chosen to make cleaner choices to keep her relationship with her husband intact and improve the long term growth of the marriage.

 

Personally it appears that she made a poor choice and wanted justification that it was the best choice at that time.

 

Now she realizes that there are better choices that can create a clean win win for the her marriage then it becomes a learning experience for her. Also for anyone else that reads these boards.

 

Condemning her now that she is making clean choices only puts us in the same category as those that judge us for our choices to participate in the lifestyle.

[sweetandspicy 15]

Thanks, Bob35. I am sure no one is perfect. The point is to acknowledge, atone, and be forgiven. Then move forward. If we were all stoned to death for our indiscretions, hmmm, I wonder how many people would be left to throw stones.

 

To Lovinher. Two weeks ago I felt differently than I do today. Growth was painfully difficult but well worth it. Part of it was feeling the guilt. I needed to do that (feel guilty) before I could grow.

 

To DigginIt. That's just what happened. Oddly though, it was the only profile I read and it was not within my "parameters". I do not remember how I got to it. When I became more familiar with the site, I tried to search for it but to no avail.

 

BTW, my profile has been down for weeks and I have deleted any cookies. I have no desire to return.

 

While things may never be perfect, (are they ever?) we have taken great strides in the last few days. We are both going to work at keeping the momentum going, even if it is in small baby steps.

[lovinher 505]

To Lovinher,

Two weeks ago I felt differently than I do today. Growth was painfully difficult but well worth it. Part of it was feeling the guilt. I needed to do that (feel guilty) before I could grow.

 

Actually it was 4 days ago.

Glad to see you are working on it.

[angelkin 1,326]

Anyone familiar with AFF enough to know if that option is on that site? Maybe I'm wrong on that.

 

 

Yep, unless you block this feature, people can see you have looked at them on AFF:)

[bob35 187]

Thanks, Bob35. I am sure no one is perfect. The point is to acknowledge, atone, and be forgiven. Then move forward. If we were all stoned to death for our indiscretions, hmmm, I wonder how many people would be left to throw stones.

 

To Lovinher. Two weeks ago I felt differently than I do today. Growth was painfully difficult but well worth it. Part of it was feeling the guilt. I needed to do that (feel guilty) before I could grow.

 

To DigginIt. That's just what happened. Oddly though, it was the only profile I read and it was not within my "parameters". I do not remember how I got to it. When I became more familiar with the site, I tried to search for it but to no avail.

 

BTW, my profile has been down for weeks and I have deleted any cookies. I have no desire to return.

 

While things may never be perfect, (are they ever?) we have taken great strides in the last few days. We are both going to work at keeping the momentum going, even if it is in small baby steps.

 

The only thing that concerns me now is your comment above about "needing" to feel guilty. It was just an event that happened from a poor choice - nothing more or less. An event is just that - an event.

 

Putting a charge on the event (positive or negative) does nothing to build the relationship with your husband.

 

Glad to hear you two have opened the communication lines again so that the two of you can move forward together in your relationship. Yes I am sure it is going to be messy at times but the important thing is owning and expressing your thoughts and feelings.

 

It is amazing what the difference is when you own the feeling rather than blame the other for the feelings you are having. It is an entirely different paradigm for all involved.

 

Coming from the place (emotionally, etc.) that it sounds like you are at now it sounds like you are really back into the mindset of creating a win-win for your marriage. Enjoy it.