New angle to help me accept wife being with another man

[doug39 80]

As I discussed in other threads, my wife wants to swing but I have jealousy and insecurity issues. I was going to try it to make her happy, but then we decided against it.

 

The problem is that she keeps bringing the subject up and all of our sex now involves gangbang/MFM fantasies. It is as if just being with me isn't good enough anymore.

 

She wants to find another married couple to swap partner or have them watch but ultimately do a MFM with another guy and me.

 

My main problem is I don't know if I can handle watching her get another guy off or if the other guy is better then me and/or she develops feelings for another man.

 

So I decided to look at it from a new angle - I will just focus on the fun and excitement of having sex with another women. I am sure that will help distract me from what my wife is doing.

 

My wife will not put this swinging thing to rest until it happens - she is a determined person who gets what she wants out of life and could end up doing this without me. I don't want to take that chance.

[shrevecouple 252]

Doug honey this is the same song, new verse. I can tell you from recent experience if when she starts having sex with another man bothers you, it won't matter that you have someone else to focus your energy on. It didn't for me. I pepped talked my way through it but in the end the sex I had with the other man became mechanical. Some folks on here are more pro couples because then "everything is equal". I have learned for me adding the fourth changes the whole dynamics and what I get out of the experience. I can only enjoy sex with another man if I still have my husband's full attention. Luckily for me my husband feels the same way except he's not ready yet to attempt sex with another woman again and honestly I am thankful. But maybe I will feel differently about adding a woman if I can still focus my energy on him still as well so that I still have that connection (basically fmf). Who knows. lol

 

But as everyone here has already said. If she steps out on you by herself to do this, that's on her. You agree to do this with her even though you don't want to, it's on you and you really can't point the finger at her.

[LFM2 1,482]

Doug, you're not telling us anything new.

 

Seriously, you two need marriage counseling. Both of you.

[doug39 80]

Doug, you're not telling us anything new.

 

Seriously, you two need marriage counseling. Both of you.

 

Thanks for your advice.

 

But I don't see counseling in our near future.

 

It costs money and our insurance won't cover it. We can't afford it.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

Thanks for your advice.

 

But I don't see counseling in our near future.

 

It costs money and our insurance won't cover it. We can't afford it.

 

doug39,

 

I agree with LFM2...you two need to focus on the both of you and not bring other people in at this time. I may be new to the swinging scene but I am not new to marital relationship problems. And personally, it sounds like she has one or more men she has lined up to have sex with...if not already.

 

There was a time when Mr. Sunbuckus and I should have gone to couples counseling but we didn't...but we did work through it. Give it time, patience, and love. As long as the both of you love each other and want to be with each other, then give your full attention to one another. And if I'm correct about her, she needs to stop having any interaction with those other men.

 

Best of luck to you and your wife.

[IVcents 115]

That is a subject I have been curious about. One spouse having the curiosity and desire to experience sex with someone else while the other doesn't want that to happen. Does the marriage vows mean that a wife or husband can't do something just for themselves, I repeat ... "just for themselves" in their life or must they always give up anything the other doesn't want them to do? Is cheating or a divorce the only answer when a spouse succumbs to a sexual desire to have sex with someone else? From what I hear on TV and what I think is true, the excuse for cheating is "it was just sex, I don't love them, I love you".

The only answer I can think of is that the couple needs to really talk about it. Making love is NOT sex. Sex is adults playing for fun, nothing more. I believe before a couple can try swinging they must first talk and agree on that. It is not about doing something TO their marriage but doing something IN their marriage. Is about fun and adventure and satisfying their sex desires and fantasies. Sex is a very strong impulse, maybe stronger than love. Maybe that is what causes cheating in a marriage.

If we could just change the label of sexual intercouse from "making love" to "enjoying sex" and keep them seperate it would be a sexually healthier world. I believe that is what swingers recognize. Love is about mutual exclusive feelings and respect for their mate. Sex is playing with someone else on the block and going home to love.

 

Thats my IV cents worth, accounting for inflation.

[doug39 80]

I don't know if my wife has ever cheated on me, she claims she hasn't. but I know she fantasizes about other men - some people consider that cheating.

 

I guess the bottom line is everyone is there own person committed or not. The other person in that commitment just has to deal with what they want if they want to be with them.

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

Fantasizing about other people is not cheating. It is normal for most people.

 

Your new angle is nothing new.

 

I'd really like for your wife to post her thoughts here. Hopefully you two can work something out without hurting yourselves and your child. I think swinging is a recipe for disaster in your case.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

That is a subject I have been curious about. One spouse having the curiosity and desire to experience sex with someone else while the other doesn't want that to happen. Does the marriage vows mean that a wife or husband can't do something just for themselves, I repeat ... "just for themselves" in their life or must they always give up anything the other doesn't want them to do? Is cheating or a divorce the only answer when a spouse succumbs to a sexual desire to have sex with someone else? From what I hear on TV and what I think is true, the excuse for cheating is "it was just sex, I don't love them, I love you".

 

Interesting topic. In marriage, there (should) be love. Love means not wanting to cause harm to your spouse, physical or emotional. For most couples, having sex with other people other than your significant other is unfathomable. Perhaps they view it as an intimate act that only they should share together. Perhaps it is a way to show possession and ownership. Whatever the case is, our culture perpetrates sex as love. You should only have sex with someone you love. I'm slowly coming around to not believing this because love doesn't equal sex. Sex can be a part of love but they are not equal. Would you stay with your spouse if they couldn't have sex with you anymore but you still loved them? Hopefully, yes. Now, would you stay with them if they didn't love you but still had sex with you? How much would that hurt to find out that the person you married doesn't love you anymore but just wants to be with you for sex (or for your money, car, etc)?

 

Security, trust, and honesty are crucial for a relationship to survive and discussing whether one half of the couple can go and have their sexual desires fulfilled without the other half needs to be addressed in every manner. Without communication, it is cheating. Treat it as a hobby. A spouse can talk about joining a gym to start playing basketball/football/etc "just for themselves." Nothing is hidden. But if they don't mention it at all, what is it that they are hiding? Are they afraid that the other spouse won't approve? Is there an ulterior motive to starting this new hobby (such as meeting singles or participate in illegal activities)? Once you start hiding things from your spouse, it can down spiral into chaos.

 

Everyone knows that every relationship, marital/friendship/other, requires give and take as well compromising. Sex with other people outside of marriage is something that some people find off limits. And if that is the case, then the couple will need to accept that and move on or talk, talk, talk and talk about it to see if they are willing to be more open minded about it.

 

Obviously, from this site, there are other alternatives than cheating and divorce when a married person wants to succumb to their sexual desires for another person. If the persons in the married relationship are always open and honest with each other, then they can have the conversation and go from there. Some would abstain and others would explore that option and how it may or may not affect their relationship.

 

Cheating can be about sex or about emotional attachment. A lot of the excuses for cheating is that they weren't getting it (sex or emotional closeness) at home so they sought it elsewhere. If half of the couple finds themselves needing to look elsewhere in their marriage for these things, they need to work on their marital relationship first and strengthen it before using it as an excuse to have sex with other people. Swinging is not the answer to solve these problems. Swinging requires a strong relationship where both halves are happy with their sexual and emotional lives but want to expand and share new experiences with their significant other.

 

Just my opinion...because Mr. Sunbuckus and I have been in that boat before.

[rainbowskye 102]

Same song and dance. By page two you will need cheese to go with that....

 

If you cant afford counseling,perhaps the self help books in the public library would be a good place to start.

 

if by chance you attend church or have any religious faith, most pastors, priests and rabi's offer this service as being a member of their church.

 

Either way, this is a trainwreck coming full speed ahead. this wont fix what is broken and it wouldnt surprise me if this was an up and coming episode of springer followed by divorce court.

 

Either do it or dont do it, you never take anyone's advice to begin with.

[lustylearning 705]

Well, the most fun in swinging for me is the experience I have with the opposite sex. That said, I would never want to share that experience with someone who's not into it. That would be my concern for you. You don't seem to take much joy in the thought, and your resentment at doing it in the first place, your unhappiness with your wife, and insecurity in general would show through.

[Crosswords 92]

Thanks for your advice.

 

But I don't see counseling in our near future.

 

It costs money and our insurance won't cover it. We can't afford it.

 

Have you checked into counseling thoroughly enough to verify this? Most insurance does cover some counseling. Most counselors have sliding scale arrangements to make counseling affordable. It's worth checking into it.

[doug39 80]

Have you checked into counseling thoroughly enough to verify this? Most insurance does cover some counseling. Most counselors have sliding scale arrangements to make counseling affordable. It's worth checking into it.

 

My shitty insurance hardly covers medical expenses as it is and it is outragously priced.

[rainbowskye 102]

I guess your insurance isnt too shitty it covered the gastric bypass surgery.

 

Perhaps save money, instead of buying non necessities like alcohol and find a counselor who allows a pymt plan.

 

The truth of the matter is that your wife is coming out of a surpressed shell in which you played a part in the surpression and you cant handle it. you are unwilling to get help to save your marriage probably because you are going to be facing the role you have played in emotionally damaging your wife.

 

Your new angle is just a new title to the same thread.

 

 

Why would you want to be the bad experience you see people sharing ? I wouldnt do anything i was not ready to do.

[Guest sandraandalex]

If you think marriage counseling is expensive, try divorce. That being said, local community help centers or health clinics often have free or reduced rate counseling available. You should look into it.

 

Lastly, fantasizing about another man is not cheating. Because of the Sermon on the Mount, which explains that thinking of doing a sin is as bad as actually doing it, it gets extended to even sexual fantasy. Which is plain silly. Anyway....

[IVcents 115]

I think you have gotten some good advice, maybe a little bit from several replies. Sunbuckus was very on point. The importance of love, trust, and respect for each others feelings and needs and a total openness between a married couple are minimum reqiurements. I am sure you recognize that, or first think that you need to feel that way before you move on. But... I don't think you have gotten any answers you are looking to receive as advice. First, I don't think counseling is an answer. It will be about morals and religion. I don't believe any swingers believe what they are doing is immoral or a sinful disregard of their religious beliefs. I just read your last thread about you and your wife's previous experiences and near experiences she sought with other men. Clearly she is out in the open and able to prove to you she wants to have sex with other men and has, while you watched. Don't you get the message?

It may not just be as simple as her behaviour is obvious. Testosterone is important for both male and female levels of sexual desire. Look on line for brain chemicals responsible for sexual desires. Some are responsible for long term love and attachment and others for lust. It may be her sexual wants are not merely an interest in swinging but be in her sexual chemestry.

It may well be that it is you who should change your thought process as a way to overcome your issues with what she has shown you she really wants in your marriage. Since she has had sex with other men while you watched, you show an ability to accept her sex intimacies but lack the ability to be comfortable with it out of jelousy and fear of loosing her. She is showing you another side of her you have never seen and that really throws you.

I have read enough comments by husbands on this site to believe it is he who is turned on to watch his wife being pleasured and enjoying sex with another man. He is happy to see that she really likes it. HE is giving her that . It is more his motivation in swinging than his desire for sex with the husband's wife. There are about as many wives who say they enjoy watching their huband's pleasure with another woman and her delight with him.

My first wife was a virgin on our wedding night as it was her adolescent fantasy to become a "woman" in her wedding bed. She was terribly inhibited and so innocent she never became sexually aroused enough for her pussy to get wet during the entire week of sex 4 or 5 times a day. It was kind of painful for her every time. Some or a lot of blame is mine in not properly introducing her into sex. But on our first night at home I began to kiss her slowly moving down on her. She stopped me when I went past her belly button. Her legs were closed but my head opened them enough. As soon as my tongue licked her clit she moaned and gasped, her legs opening wider and wider. I brought her to her first ever orgasm. She had been in a strict religion that tought her masturbation was a sin and she had never even done that. It was her first time and she humped and moaned, hands grasping the sheets as she got off. Later on I became really turned on every time I penetrated her and her eyes rolled back, her mouth opened with a hushed gasp and a moan of pleasure. It was the turn on of these two things, the pleasure and excitment of her first sexually enjoyed experience and the hot way she responded to being penetrated that made me think. I could never give her the excitment of a first time and how much a turn on it would be to watch her respond to a bigger dick than mine penetrating her. I saw that was something swinging or just another guy could provide for her. The first time excitement of being fucked by someone new and the feeling of being penetrated by a new and possibly bigger cock.

I think you need to talk, talk, and talk about the difference between sex and love. I would guess maybe 90% of the time when a married couple have sex it is because of an arousal of desire. It is a married couple playing. Making love is much more rare. You may be in love but the majority of the time it is just sex for fun and pleasure. Making love is a special occasion when your minds are joined as one and sex is an intamicy that follows and is emotionally present.

There is no difference between the physical and heat of the moment passion of making love and enjoying sex as adult play. That INCLUDES kissing and the "in heat" passionate use of saying "I love you". It is more possibly a sign of submission to engage in sex. It goes away when the sex is over and the bodies cool off. It then becomes I loved that sex.

You two have been together a long time. If she didn't love you she would have already left you for the guy she wants to push her bittons. If you didn't love her you would not have let her, or stayed to watch her being fucked by another guy. Since you have given her the freedom to experience her desire to have sex with another man for her pleasure doing so while you watched and was more or less okay with it, I feel your matial relationship is more in danger if you don't find a way for you, Doug, to find yourself turned on by it. You have to be supportive and accepting. If she is so hot for this, you know if she is so hungry for it she has put herself out there to prove that to you, you will be the one who doesn't understand her needs, missing what she is telling you. You need to give her this as a gift of your love and she will she will know it. She will love you for giving her your understanding. If you are looking for a new angle to feel okay about it, find it in yourself. You need to realize how hot she can be for you, not how you can ignore her by getting into another wife's pussy.

That is my advice to you. Come around, get into it. You have already passed GO. The sign ahead just out of your sight may say dead end.

[IVcents 115]

WOOPS! I definately misread Dougs previous thread and thought for sure after reading it she had already had sex with another male while he watched. My BIG mistake. She actually cancelled a meet with a guy Doug arrangerd for her to have a mfm with. I read to quickly and am imbarrased at my mistake in mentioning it in my reply. I do guess he would have gone through with it if she haden't put her marriage first. Sorry Doug.

I do stand by my replay if you disregard my error. I think he should give greater thought to enjoy watching his wife experiencing the excitment of a new sex partner and the pleasures she would feel having sex. It is a gift of a husband to his wife given in love.

One spouse in a marriage wanting to swing with others while the other spouse does not has no happy ending. My misread made it even more difficult than it currently is by thinking she was sexually active when she only wants to be.

I must say I feel like many are beating her up by saying you think she has cheated and/or has men lined up to cheat on him with. Her obvious attempted seduction in a bar does show her desire for sex with other men in front of her husband. That is certainly sending him a message he needs to read and fully understand it is what she wants. My reply was mostly about him overcoming his jealousy and fear of losing her to another male who does her better in bed than he does or maybe has a bigger cock may be totally an unfounded fear. Certainly she seems to have put her marriage first. There is no sign she hasn't but certainlt proved to him she wants to have sex with another man. It was only a mistake to think she already had.

I guess if there was a seniors forum I would get more understanding as being a senior moment than I will get for my mistake. But it doesn't change the heart of my replay.

[Crosswords 92]

First, I don't think counseling is an answer. It will be about morals and religion.

 

This is not necessarily true. Counselors who are members of AASECT AASECT :: American Association of Sex Counselors, Educators & Therapists are particularly well-equipped to counsel couples who are swingers or interested in swinging.

[rainbowskye 102]

I agree with crosswords. Counseling that I been to did not involve morals and certainly not religion. it surfaced around the issues at hand.

 

Many are suggesting counseling not for the tought of wanting to swing but the issues defined in the OP's previous threads.

 

He has stated he is jealous and insecure.

 

When he speaks of women, he holds them in a very low regard. He has spoken negatively of his wifes friend that they had an encounter with.

 

He has spoken negatively of his wife. when speaking of her having gained weight he referred to her as a fat slob. she has since had gastric bypass and now being hot wants sex and to swing.

 

While she was overweight he did little to support her.

They have to be drunk to have sex.

 

And look down on swingers.

 

What is happening here is his wife is coming out of a surpressed shell and seeing how real men treat their wives.

 

 

I wish his wife would post and give her side of it all.

 

 

Sadly his previous posts and thread paint a picture of a train wreck waiting to happen. it appears he is againt couneling and addressing the non sexual issues before swinging.

 

this is a trainwreck waiting to happen. they have no respect for others. if they did they wouldnt consider subjecting others to this nightmare.

[bonniejean 15]

Good for you! As a married woman I can honestly say, you are right. If her fantasy/urges for a MMF are that strong, she will do it with or without you. We are who we are. You can't change her. The more she is forbidden to do this, the more appealing it will become to her. You're a smart man and a supportive husband, I wish I could say the same. Be happy that she tells you what her fantasies are and includes you in them.

[slevin 1,374]

Good for you! As a married woman I can honestly say, you are right. If her fantasy/urges for a MMF are that strong, she will do it with or without you. We are who we are. You can't change her. The more she is forbidden to do this, the more appealing it will become to her. You're a smart man and a supportive husband, I wish I could say the same. Be happy that she tells you what her fantasies are and includes you in them.

 

That is very disappointing to hear. I feel that in a healthy relationship if one partner is uncomfortable with the fantasies and desires of the other that no one would be forced to do something they aren't ready for. I think that both my wife and I would be happy to keep something a fantasy if either one of us were uncomfortable.

 

The concept that someone can't control their sexual urges is bullshit. That is just a way to paint yourself as a victim and remove blame.

 

"I couldn't help it, my desire was too strong"

"If you were more supportive I wouldn't have had to cheat on you"

 

Pure crap.

[LFM2 1,482]

Good for you! As a married woman I can honestly say, you are right. If her fantasy/urges for a MMF are that strong, she will do it with or without you. We are who we are. You can't change her. The more she is forbidden to do this, the more appealing it will become to her. You're a smart man and a supportive husband, I wish I could say the same. Be happy that she tells you what her fantasies are and includes you in them.

 

But it still doesn't make it right, does it?

 

Marriage is about love, honor, honesty, respect and communication (and other things).

 

Going behind a spouses back to scratch an itch is dishonest. Doing something when your spouse is uncomfortable with it is disrespectful.

 

It's called self-control. You can fantasize about it all you want. You can shout it to your husband or wife that you want to do this SOOOO bad. You can tell the mailman and your butcher, but doing it without the other half knowing and being OK with it is still NOT OK.

 

I read an Ann Landers column a long time ago about a husband who wanted to leave his wife because she was, as he said, "getting older, was always tired, boring, not wanting to do try of the things that he wanted to do". The list went on. In the end, Ann suggested marital counseling if that didn't work, very subtly told him, it was time to get rid her because he didn't deserve her. She deserved someone better and he would be doing her a favor. Of course that's paraphrased, but you get the gist.

 

I've been a member of this board for years and anyone who's read more than a few of my threads knows I'm all for having sex with others if everyone has consented. But, I think everyone knows I'm against cheating, too.

[twistedpretzels 100]

Fantasies aren't cheating.... goodness. If fantasies were the world would be on a total lock down. lol. I am glad Pete encourages me to talk about my fantasies... we have fun! We only swing occasionally... which is plenty for us at this point.

[doug39 80]

Thank you all for your advice.

 

But....

 

swinging is something my wife wants to do but if she never does, it probably won't end our marriage. Many other of our problems would probably end the marriage before this issue.

 

we will not go to counseling. Yes we may need it, but at this point we are not in that bad a shape.

 

we are basically happy and I only came to this site because my wife is interested in a MFM and/or swinging with a couple and I needed advice on how to handle it. I may be reading too much into it all and over analyzing but that is just me. If I seriously said no we would probably never swing.

 

I doubt she has ever cheated but of course I don't really know. She does travel for work, often gets home late because she claims she has to work late and her best friend is a swinging slut that has had sex with countless men and women so I have my suspicions but are they all in my head or is it reality? I do not know. I tell myself I can't stop her from doing what she wants - it is her life - it is up to me to stick around or leave.

[rainbowskye 102]

I will no longer contribute to any thread of dougs. based on the pm he sent me and the way in which he speaks to women, i can understand his wifes point of view without her being here.

 

I pray to the powers that be that she find the strength to leave this type of man.

 

And no doug, i dont hate men and i am not the foul names you have called me. i am a west texas girl we are straight shooters.

 

Ibwish you well but pray to the powers that be that your wife find the strength to leave your abusive @@@.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I will no longer contribute to any thread of dougs. based on the pm he sent me and the way in which he speaks to women, i can understand his wifes point of view without her being here.

 

 

Please forward the PM to me so that I can take a look at it. If it was abusive or insulting it will be dealt with.

[twistedpretzels 100]

Rainbowskye- I commend you on your upfront note. I probably would have said too many things and used too many bad words!! Good for you stating your mind in a productive way.

And yay! Julie-- you must do a lot of reading to keep up with some many posts. Thank you for your guidance.

[rainbowskye 102]

Twisted i agree Julie and the moderators she has are all amazing and take time out to listen. that shows true dedication and you don't see a lot of that these days.

 

I wasn't goin to say anything but the Irish me wouldn't let me hold it in. ;-)

 

I did add him to my ignore list as i think his posts are a crock of kaka . not worth the time.

[doug39 80]

I will no longer contribute to any thread of dougs.

 

 

I knew you couldn't stay away.

 

Face it, you love a bad boy.