Thinking about going condomless...

[dodgechevy 149]

We've been swinging for a good while now. Recently passed 6 years in the lifestyle and going on 7. The entire time without exception we have always used protection. Now, obviously we agree that sex is better without but it's something we decided not to try with our partners.

 

A few weeks ago we ended up playing with a couple. Like always we used protection. She got started with the other husband, but apparently the Mrs didn't realize I had put my condom on when I started having sex with the other wife.

 

What surprised both her and I was how turned on she got by thinking I was going bareback. So just to clarify I was using a condom, as was the other hubby, like always. But this has lead to a chain of conversations on perhaps not using condoms, at least not always. We're thinking of maybe starting out with asking a few close friends that we play with often about not using them.

 

Basically we're asking for advice. For those that do go bareback, how do you bring it up with potential couples? Do you ask if they recently have been tested? How much are union dues? Basically anything that we might want to think about or look for if we decide to go for it.

 

At this point we're still in the thinking phase. We're still not sure if we will even try it out. We know all about the risks so we don't really need any STD/Pregnancy lectures, after 6 years we got the pamphlets too.

[ViSexual 1,008]

I'd think if you found one trusted couple who agreed to being condomless exclusive with you it might be less risk. And, sure, why not discuss it with one of your regulars that you trust?

[Galanga 249]

Sabrina – you’re right, women have a greater chance of certain infections because of the “injection” of bodily fluid from the male partner. Also, men have the advantage of sharing the sex tube with the pee tube. So peeing right after sex can help clean out a man, but not us. And douching is no good because it can actually push the semen past the cervix.

 

Dodgechevy – You sound like a great couple. It’s great that you put thought into decisions like this instead of either jumping without thinking, or being inhibited without thinking. And it’s awesome that you discuss it as a couple beforehand. You asked for advice, and allow me to throw my two cents in.

 

First, most likely the reason your wife seemed so aroused by the thought that you went bareback is because SHE wants to. She viewed you “breaking the ice”, and that excited her. Contrary to what men think – women hate condoms too.

 

I cut my sexual teeth in the 70s, before HIV. At that time, condoms were thought of primarily as a form of birth control. Since all women involved in alternative recreational sex were on the pill, condoms were considered a joke from a bygone era. No one used them. No one even considered them. When HIV was discovered in the early 80s it was confined to the gay and IV drug communities, and again the heterosexual (swinger and gangbang) crowd wasn’t concerned. The condom companies then went on a huge media blitz hyping the problem beyond it reality, and even giving the impression that condoms are “cooler” than bareback.

 

In the late 80s I got caught up in the scare and began using condoms. I hated them. They took a huge thrill out of the whole thing. I couldn’t feel the texture and shape of the penis inside me, nor could I feel the ejaculation squirts. Also I could “feel” the weakened intensity for the guys. The penis wasn’t feeling the full power of my vagina, and that translated into a less eager cock. It also took the guys longer to cum and, although many women consider that an advantage, at the adult theater/gangbang venue the serial cumshots is more valued than the actual fucking.

 

I abandoned the condom one night at an adult theater in New York that had four rooms with gloryholes. A cock came through the gloryhole that was rock solid, the head was bloated and purple, and there was precum on it. I looked at my husband and he knew exactly what I was feeling. He just nodded, I put my backside against the gloryhole and I slid my vagina over it bareback. After a year of not feeling that “magic”, there it was … and it felt glorious. That was 20 years ago, and I’ve been bareback ever since.

 

It is risky, but we all take risks in the name of recreation. Bareback sex is a lot less risky than mountain climbing, sky diving, or white water rafting – all recreational activities. And yet, no one would ever criticize a mountain climber for taking risk in the name of recreation. How risky it is? Well, let’s put it this way. At an adult theater I can get typically 15 men, and about half of them come back for seconds. That’s about 25 cumshots. A typical male orgasm ejaculates 6 mL of semen. 25 X 6 = 150 mL. That’s more than ½ cup of semen per visit. I do this about 3 times a month. That’s 450 mL per month = 5.4 L per year. I’ve been doing it for 34 years. Thus, I have absorbed 184 L (48 gallons) of stranger semen inside me in my life so far … and I never caught an STD of any kind. That should put the risk in perspective for you.

 

To answer your specific questions, the way we “bring it up” is to not bring it up at all. At a swinger party or in a foursome, when things have been sufficiently heated up by preliminary foreplay-like activities, my husband will slide his bare penis up and down between the woman’s labia (after making sure she sees it’s bare). If she asks for a condom he gets one no questions asked. If she shows no trepidation after he dips the head in for a second, then he’ll push it all the way in … and the rest is history. I do a similar technique. I will take the guy’s penis bare and put the head on (not in) the opening. If he backs off and reaches for a condom, fine. If he pushes in … the rest is history. At an adult theater, gangbang, or through a gloryhole, I simply refuse to use a condom. At an adult theater I’m bent over my husband’s lap and don’t see the men at my backside. My husband is my “gatekeeper”. If a guy comes at me with a condom, my husband will reject him. But that’s rarely a problem since 99% of those guys go bare by default.

 

Do you ask for medical proof? Absolutely not. First of all, people lie about things like that. Secondly, the medical tests are only good the day of the test. The next day he/she could have picked something up. I, like pretty much everyone who gets tested, only get tested at my annual physical. Third, if you only play with couples that get tested (most don’t) that will greatly limit your play pool.

 

So the bottom line is to weigh the risk/benefit equation as it suits you. No one can tell you where that balance lies for you.

[Alura 2,774]

Like Galanga, we started swapping mates before AIDS was a known problem. When it did surface in the early eighties, to limit our exposure, we limited our contacts to married couples who had had little or no outside exposure. It's unlikely one might get an STD from people who have never had sex with anyone other than their spouse.

 

We had total trust in the birth control pills Mrs. Alura took, so condoms, at best unpredictable, were never considered.

 

A news article appeared in the Tulsa World about a bi husband in a swingers club somewhere up north, who went to a bath house in San Francisco and brought back AIDS to the club. Our answer was to not play with couples who had a bi husband. We never met one anyway so it was no problem.

 

We didn't go to clubs and didn't have sex with strangers.

 

Oh, would that condoms protected women from breast cancer!

[Lascivious L&L 866]

Like Alura and Galanga we had much sex before the 80's and HIV. And we've had much sex since. Our long experience with sex and swinging means we aren't interested in mediocre sex or lots of partners for the sake of variety. We look for great sex with those who know what great sex entails. We like respect, comfort, intimacy, friendship, playfullness, and caring.

 

Great sex for us simply does not include condoms. We're both fixed, so there is no pregnancy issue and hasn't been for a long time. The risks involved are simply not as extreme as hyped by the media and are more on the order of risks we assume in everyday life, such as driving. As Galanga pointed out, recreational fun entails risks that are not subject to the same hype as sexual recreation. Just recently a man died snowboarding at Jay Peak (We can see Jay from our house.) He hit a tree and he WAS wearing a helmet. So even with protection, there are risks with everyday recreations like skiing and snowboarding.

[EnjoyingLife 127]

We have only ever full-swapped with one couple and them with us, exclusively. And we'd all been monogamous for many years prior. We've chosen not to use condoms and are happy and confident with that decision. We trust our friends to be safe and not put us at risk, and they trust us.

 

My husband has said that he absolutely does not ever want to have to use a condom. He says they ruin sex for him. On the other hand he has said that he is not willing to accept the risks of unprotected sex with a partner he isn't sure about. I agree 110% with him on both points.

 

For those reasons, if we ever do full-swap with another couple, like Alura said, it would have to be with a married couple that we knew had little or no outside exposure, similar to what we have with our current friends.

 

Oh, and my husband had a vascectomy and I have a medical reasons that make it highly unlikely I would ever conceive and if I did, impossible for me to carry to term. But when we are with our friends I still use VCF (spermicide) just to be extra safe.

[twistedpretzels 100]

Bareback is such a nicer way to go, BUT, no matter how careful you are, honest you are, there are still desires that get in the way. P & I & she got tested the week prior to P and fems big bang. We all did HSV2 antibody screens. She told us after their tryst and said since we're all infected now playing shouldn't be 'such a problem'. I think people should play as safe as they can because weird little scenarios can throw a loop into things. The ultimate of playing is the experience and not necessarily the touch down or the full monty-- if it brings major risk to your mate is it really worth it? It's about titalation and fun right?

If you are serious they perhaps some of the Herpes or HIV sites available?????

[MrsPandMe 150]

Galanga is certainly an example of as risky as you can get going bareback! She does make an EXCELLENT argument though, and I happen to agree with much of what she says.

 

What we have here is "idealism" vs "reality" and it happens a lot in this lifestyle. The core of the issue is this. Men and women both want to fuck bareback. Period. I have yet to run into anyone who has any reasonable sexual experience who prefers condoms because they "improve" the sexual experience. Just doesn't happen. In addition, for those of you subscribe to the thoughts of individual energies and "chi" if you will, the energy bond you experience during sex is an incredibly powerful and exotic part of the experience.

 

Anyway, to return to the "idealism" vs "reality" portion of this, let's use an example. You and your wife decide that you guys might be interested in spicing up your sex life. You sit down and have a long (hours, weeks, months sometimes) discussion about how having sex with other people might be fun and exciting. You then start making up "rules" designed in your minds not to let things get "too far". Rule number 1? Condoms. You or your partner or both of you immediately blurt out that they are a REQUIREMENT so we don't get all sicky and stuff.

 

**BRRRRRRRZZZZT**

 

Wrong answer. What's really going on in your minds are condom=physical barrier between him and her. He's fucking a rubber tube that's inside her funbits. Your brain buys into it and now you've associated condoms as the physical manifestation of separation of "sex" from "emotion". They are now protecting you from emotional involvement, not disease.

 

Jump to a year later. You are having a fooking BLAST being carefree swingers. You've met some great people, had some good sex and along the way, one by one, those rules you came up with around the kitchen table are falling by the wayside. Now you're kissing, sucking dick like it's going out of style, occasionally pairing off for some separate room sex... Then one night you're invited to a house party with a fair amount of people. Things are great, most people at the house party know each other, so it doesn't take long for the fun to begin. Everyone gets hot and heavy on the group bed, not a one of them is rubbering up for the event. Welcome to "reality"! Now you're both standing there ready to do, but you are railroaded by your "principled" adhesion that "thou shalt not copulate without the Trojan Man". It's obvious they want you in there with them and as such they are actively trying to get you involved. You are literally being pulled into the group!

 

You could, of course, and always have the right to, say "no" and disengage. You guys go back downstairs, see what's on the tube, talk a little bit about the hockey game that night. Eventually the group makes its way back downstairs for a 15 minute breather and off they go again!

 

The point of this whole story is not "give up on your principals". Condoms ARE A CHOICE you are ENTITLED to make and we swingers respect that. What I'm saying is this, and this is the "reality" of it. A VAST MAJORITY of swingers today do not use condoms 100% of the time, and I would wager though I have no statistics other then my own observation, that well over 50% will bareback unless SPECIFICALLY asked to wear a condom.

 

To the OPs original questions. You don't really "bring it up". At least in terms of "hey, we wanna fuck you guys bareback, can you please present us with a recent STD test from a certified MD k thx". That approach will universally end with you barebacking your wife at home alone. On top of that, there are STDs out there that, either as a function of remission or asymptomatic response are not detectable by the host nor reliably with an STD test. Think Herpes (which, btw, condoms are nearly completely ineffective in preventing transmission of). HPV is another "boogie man" being bandied about lately that has worked uninformed people into an absolute lather (don't worry, you have it. And you've had it before. And you'll have it again).

The bottom line is, you take a calculated risk with everything you do. Common sense keeps you alive in those endeavors and they will serve you well here too. Look where you're going and you'll be in no worse shape than anyone else.

 

As for us, we enjoy barebacking! We don't do it with everyone because we swing with folks who want to use condoms. As for how I bring it up at an encounter, I will ask my partner if she would prefer I condom up. I do like Galanga's technique. Her taking my cock and basically guiding it to her is as good as a "no" answer to my condom question as I'll get. As for me, personally, without an OBVIOUS sign such as that (her pulling my dick into her) I will ask "should I put one on". Many times the answer is her pushing me inside!

[dodgechevy 149]

Thanks to everyone for your great advice and opinions. Going bareback is definitely a controversial matter, and something we're still deciding whether or not to do.

 

Like Sabrinaswings, we actually will probably make it a rule not to let the men finish inside. Mostly because we just plain don't like to do it even with ourselves. Just too messy. Although it would be hard to trust someone else to pull out in time.

 

From the looks of things, and from other places we've read, it seems the mostly the "older" generation tends to go bareback. Being the younger swingers (most of the time being the youngest couple in the crowd), we grew up being told by school, adults, and like Galanga said the media, that condoms were the only way to do it. And that's what we did. Not really the reason that MrsPandMe stated, but I could certainly see some couples that might feel that way.

 

In fact since we started swinging 6 some odd years ago, we've only ever been asked once if we wanted to play sans condoms (and only half way through due to some technical issues with them).

 

However something we have noticed is that we are the ones that have to continuously offer the condoms. Looking back on it, there probably would have been no discussion of condom usage in at least half of the couples we played with in the last year had we not brought them into play.

 

As for the Mrs enjoying going condomless, of course she would. She hated them when we first started having sex more than I did. She quickly got on the pill because of it.

 

For now we probably will bring up the subject with some close friends, and go from there.

[wisconsin 58]

I could go condomless only if I can see it is worth it. I have only met several men I could see as a my regular dates partners and would play without condoms with them. I would always assess their lifestyle. If they meet many people how busy they are and if they would prefer regular partner versus hooking up with different people all the time.

First time is always condoms for me and trial to assess for future.

Usually playdates in hotels or clubs are fun fun but not worth risking my life or my husbands life for it.

With a regular couple or single man if there is a good connection and lots of common values and chemistry it's very possible and probably the logical way to go.

[mde 4764 15]

When I was part of a couple we decided to try swinging. We both agreed that we would not use condoms unless asked to. We both felt that anyone thinking that STD test were nothing more than a sense of false security and that condoms take to much away from the fun. With said, 99% of the time we were bareback. We never had a problem.

[Guest Aching]

We are still LS "virgins"...but have had long discussions and agree this is something we both want to do...but ONLY with married couples that we know and trust. We probably know couples that ARE in the LS....except they don't talk about it so we don't really "know." But if somehow we discovered that good friends were involved....and we were all interested....then we'd want them to be our mentors and take us all the way.

 

We decided that if we are going to completely enjoy sex....for the "fun" of it...then we want it all...and that means bareback. There is just no other way to fully enjoy the complete experience and we are not interested in anything less.

 

So if we don't already know someone...then we'll take the time to get to know them....and build the trust that they have been "careful" as we intend to be. What we would really like to do is find a limited number of couples that play "within the group" that we all know and trust. In our minds...it could be 4-6 couples, perhaps a few more....but only within the "group" and new people would need approval from the majority of existing participants.

 

We think that could be lots and lots of fun.

[Chicup 41]

Three people can keep a secret if two are dead.

 

In this situation its application is that you can't really trust anyone, even people you think you can.

 

You are there really good friends, they have other friends they are really good friends with etc. Sooner or later one of those 'good friends' is lying.

[Lascivious L&L 866]

Chicup, following your logic you'll always be right because humans aren't perfect and at some point someone will lie to you that you trust.

 

Most of the time trust is rewarded, however. So if you never trust, while you will be right the one time trust isn't rewarded, you'll be wrong most of the time. You'll miss the exchange of trust with most people most of the time in order to be right that one time it isn't.

 

There are those for whom it is more important to not trust everyone everytime in order to catch the one time trust is not shared than it is to share trust most of the time, and forgive the time it's not.

[twistedpretzels 100]

Three people can keep a secret if two are dead.

 

In this situation its application is that you can't really trust anyone, even people you think you can.

 

You are there really good friends, they have other friends they are really good friends with etc. Sooner or later one of those 'good friends' is lying.

 

Chicup (who i always want to call hiccup) is right. Hormones get in the way, desires get in the way and then it's 'oh right, i DO have herpes' whoopsies... now we can really be friends' I DID trust.

[Chicup 41]

Chicup, following your logic you'll always be right because humans aren't perfect and at some point someone will lie to you that you trust.

 

Most of the time trust is rewarded, however. So if you never trust, while you will be right the one time trust isn't rewarded, you'll be wrong most of the time. You'll miss the exchange of trust with most people most of the time in order to be right that one time it isn't.

 

There are those for whom it is more important to not trust everyone everytime in order to catch the one time trust is not shared than it is to share trust most of the time, and forgive the time it's not.

 

It's risk vrs reward. I'd rather not have to use condoms but the risk is not worth the reward to us.

[CuriousNJCouple 38]

Oddly enough, I (Greg) worry more about it and would want condoms. My wife, however, says she wants condoms but when we had experimented years ago, would never have him put one on. She preferred bareback. Go figure.

[Guest Aching]

There is no better feeling than bareback. Anything else is second rate. At some point you need to trust that your swing partner is safe, or not and act accordingly. At least, that is our credo. If it requires a condom, then it is not worth doing.

[Alura 2,774]

Absolutely, Aching! Our philosophy was that a judicious choice of playmates was the best defense against STDs.

[CuriousNJCouple 38]

I'll put condoms on when we role play. It makes it feel like I'm with someone else.

[junglecouple 127]

I just use the other hand... that way it's like dating a stranger.. it's all new..

[twistedpretzels 100]

We're saving fn for me and we will just soft swap with others. That risk is mainly hsv2 and we've already brushed that boogie man in December. Infrequency helps too. lol.

[slevin 1,374]

We're saving fn for me and we will just soft swap with others. That risk is mainly hsv2 and we've already brushed that boogie man in December. Infrequency helps too. lol.

 

There are plenty of other STDs you can get from oral sex. The incidence of transmission is generally lower for oral sex, but still plenty contagious

[tallicafan 41]

I just use the other hand... that way it's like dating a stranger.. it's all new..

 

Or you can just sit on your main squeeze (hand) for 10 minutes until it's totally numb.

[CuriousNJCouple 38]

More than familiar with both hands. I was thinking of trying some yoga and doing it with my feet!

[Chicup 41]

Absolutely, Aching! Our philosophy was that a judicious choice of playmates was the best defense against STDs.

 

I used to think so too, and while we try to limit our exposure to types we think are dangerous we now have a NEVER no condom rule. (double negative ftw).

 

The reason being that very good friends of ours, who we have known for years got not one but two STD's lately. We used to play with them bareback several years ago and we had a falling out a couple of years back. Had we not had an issue odds are they would have been our STD's too.

 

This was a 100% clean seeming couple, wealthy, great educations, no smoking or drug use. Nothing that said 'risk'.

[athenscouple 15]

We have just recently started going without condoms. We have been playing in a circle of friends we believe we can trust. But there is always a risk. But we are a full sex couple. We do oral, we kiss, we do everything and then put on a condom for intercourse. We have decided to start going without. We will let you all know how it goes.