First time leads to hurt feelings. Help!

[Sammy & Maryann 18]

Wow... I knew this was going to be long, but I didn't know how long. I know some people will be like "too long, didn't read", but in the middle there's a juicy story about my wife's first threesome, so maybe that will encourage some of you to give it an attempt.

 

This is my first time here and, and my first post, and I want to give a little background info first. I'm married to my second wife, who was very inexperienced sexually when we first met. I was only her third and she was in her mid thirties (yeah... I know a lot of chicks will say you're her 3rd or 5th when really you're her 20th, but trust me, I'm sure she was being honest with me.) We've been together almost 10 years now, and I gradually got her to loosen up in regards to sex. During sex I would talk dirty to her and tell fantasies and stuff, and gradually she started to really get turned on by fantasies about threesomes, or her with another woman, or us having sex while people watched, and stuff like that.

 

She's way hot, and she started letting me take pictures of her naked. She's very insecure about her body, but she has absolutely no reason to be. She's 5'3" and about 110-115 pounds. Nice perky boobies, she's never had a baby to give her stretch marks or anything, she's has a gorgeous face, and I'm always seeing dudes scoping her out, but it just doesn't register with her. She's always been insecure.

 

I convinced her to allow me to post some of her pics on a popular voyeur website a few years ago (don't know if I can name it here). The comments were all very positive, with just about the only negative comment being about how I blurred her face. People can rate the contributions from 1 to 5 stars, and she got a 4.76, with numerous people saying they didn't give it 5 stars because her face was blurred. If I hadn't blurred her face I have no doubt she would have finished first place in the category that month. (Narcissistic me wants some credit, too, because of the tasteful and artful photography ) My point here is just that she's gorgeous and sexy, but she had never seen herself that way. People's comments on VW made her start to view herself differently, which was definitely a good thing. It made her less insecure and more willing to try to "show off".

 

So one thing led to another. We'd go shopping and I'd buy her a sexy blouse or a short skirt. At first she was uncomfortable wearing anything the least bit sexy. She had always worn long skirts or baggy pants before we met. Let me just add here that when I first met her I could tell that she was really gorgeous and sexy, she just hid it under frumpy clothes and glasses. She was almost like one of those chicks you see in the stupid teen movies where the jocks are supposed to ask an ugly girl on a date. One of them ends up asking out a chick who they tried to make look ugly, but you know that it would be easy to change her clothes and take off her glasses and turn her into a total babe. But Maryann totally didn't see herself that way. As she's told me, she thought she was pretty, but she didn't think she was sexy.

 

She started to enjoy wearing sexy clothes for me. And by sexy I don't mean slutty (although on the occasional Saturday night I even got her to dress slutty). She was feeling confident about her body. We started working out together. She got even hotter than she already was. We go to the beach pretty regularly and she started wearing skimpier and skimpier bikinis. I think one summer I bought her 8 or 10 different bikinis, each skimpier than the last. Although she wasn't exactly super-confident about her body, she wasn't ashamed, and she knew that I thought it was cool when she dressed sexy, so she would pretty much wear whatever I asked her to wear.

 

As I said, our fantasies had started revolving around situations in which other people were involved. They were strictly fantasies at that time, but I was thinking that maybe they would actually happen some day. I thought it would be really cool if it happened in real life, but she was sticking to the story that they were only fantasies and she wouldn't want it to happen for real.

 

Let me back up just a bit... My first wife and I had gone through a similar transformation, and eventually my best friend was hanging out with us one evening and it ended up turning into a threesome. Both my ex and I thought it was awesome, and we did it a few more times with him, but then one day I came home from work in the middle of the afternoon and caught the two of them fucking on the living room floor. He had been my best friend since middle school, and she was my wife, so I obviously felt incredibly betrayed by both of them. I thought I could trust them, but I was totally wrong. My ex and I remained together for a few more years, but I could never trust her after that and things just spiraled downward. As things got worse and worse she ended up screwing around with other guys, which I learned about, and that put the nail in the coffin. The point of this paragraph is just that I am aware that I have serious trust issues, and I've carried those forward into my current marriage.

 

My current wife is completely trustworthy. In ten years I've never even caught her telling a little white lie (I mean, seriously! Everyone does that, right?) She won't even help me lie to get out of a speeding ticket. We were on vacation together, driving to visit family in another state, and I told her that if I get pulled over I'm going to tell the cop I'm on my way to my father's funeral. That story had gotten me out of a ticket once before. She told me straight up that she wasn't going to lie to help me get out of a ticket. She just doesn't lie about anything, which is really weird. It's a good thing, I know, but I've never met anyone who won't tell a little white lie to get out of a speeding ticket.

 

So now jumping forward to the recent past (about 2 weeks ago), a good friend of mine came over for dinner. He's recently separated from his wife, and he's living alone in their camper on some farmland not far from me. His ex-wife is bleeding him dry. He's a great guy, and both my wife and I really feel sorry for him. He's been coming over two or three nights per week to take showers, wash clothes, have dinner, etc... My wife is very comfortable around him, and I started working his name into our fantasies. At first she didn't want me using his name. She always wanted the third person to be some anonymous, nameless person who was just there for the fantasy. Someone we didn't know and would never see again (in the fantasy). So she was rather taken aback when I first started talking about him in our fantasies. Since she didn't want to think about a "real" person I left his name out of the dirty fantasies I would tell her during sex, but I'm pretty sure she was thinking it was him since I had planted that seed.

 

One day during sex she brought up his name. He was a part of our imaginary fantasy that day (uh... let me just point out that I'm TOTALLY straight. Not interested in the gay thing at all. I just think it would be cool to see my wife have a threesome or something). One thing led to another and before long we were talking about actually having him participate in something. I knew he'd be totally receptive to the idea. He and I had already talked about it, and he totally thinks she's hot as hell. The way Maryann was talking I was pretty sure something would happen in the near future, I just didn't know what or when. It was just a "play it by ear" kinda thing.

 

One evening he was at the house for dinner and a shower. We had finished dinner and were sitting in the living room watching TV. Maryann started kissing me out of the blue. At first it was just light kissing, but then it got rather passionate. He was a little uncomfortable, so he got up to use the bathroom, maybe figuring that we'd stop kissing by the time he came back. Maryann had different plans, though. While he was out of the room she straddled me and started kissing me even more passionately. Then she took off her shirt! She knew he was going to walk back in at any second and catch her topless, making out with me on the sofa, but she didn't care. Not only didn't she care, I guess that's what she was hoping for.

 

He walked back into the room, rather surprised, but not caught totally off guard. He said "do you guys mind if I just watch?" and I told him I think that's what she was hoping for (she has a fantasy about someone else watching us have sex). I was fondling her breasts and sucking on them. After a couple of minutes she stood up in front of me and I grabbed her shorts and pulled them down. She wasn't wearing any underwear, so now she was buck-naked in front of him. She straddled me again and started grinding on me. Then she got on her knees in front of me and started unfastening my pants.

 

One think led to another. She started blowing me, then we started having sex in front of my friend. He was totally into it, and at one point he came and sat next to us for a better view. He asked if he could touch her skin. She didn't reply, so he assumed that wasn't a "no". He started running his hand up and down her back as she straddled me (we were sitting on the sofa). He worked his hands all over her body, stroking her ass and breasts. At one point she said to him that she was sorry and she didn't mean to be a tease, but he wasn't going to get to have sex with her that night, oral or otherwise. I forget exactly what she said, but she basically just let him know that it was OK to touch her, but that's where she drew the line.

 

Well even though she had drawn the line at touching, things kept progressing. She was on her knees in front of me, blowing me and he started touching her wet pussy. She didn't stop him, so then he slid in a finger. Still she didn't stop him. He obviously had a boner straining at his jeans by this point and he unbuttoned and unzipped his pants to allow for more room. He was wearing no underwear and she could see his cock. She made sort of an "mmmm" sound to acknowledge it, and he reached down and kinda pulled it out. She didn't try to touch it or anything, so he just reached down and started slowly rubbing himself as she continued to blow me.

 

At this point He and I are sitting on the sofa and she's on her knees in front of me, sucking me dick. I wanted fuck her doggy style, so I got up and moved behind her. She was left there in front of the sofa off to the side from him, but looking over at his dick as he watched me fuck her doggy-style while he slowly masturbated. After watching him for a couple of minutes, she reached over and started stroking it for him. I was really surprised. She was taking this much farther than I thought she would. I was totally cool with it, though. And sitting here typing this two weeks later, I'm still totally cool with everything that happened. I have not been bothered at all by the stuff that happened that night. But I digress...

 

So she was reaching over, stroking his dick while I fucked her doggy-style. At some point he stood up, kicked off his pants, and sat back down in the same spot. She went right back to stroking his dick. He was being very polite and not really pushing any lines, but I assume that he figured, just like I did, that if she initiated something then it's OK.

 

She then started to shift her position so that she was in front of him. She and I kinda shuffled sideways a little so that she had positioned herself between his legs. From there she was in a much better position to stroke his cock, and suck it, if she decided to, I guess. From my vantage point I couldn't exactly see what she was doing because her head blocked my view, but I knew she wasn't blowing him at this point. Then, she spoke again. She really hadn't said much of anything since we started except to tell him that she was drawing the line short of sex or oral sex. But now she turned her head to the side and asked me if I would mind if she gave him a blow job. He words nearly made me cum. I had to pull out. I told her that it totally turned me on, and if she wanted to it was fine, but I also told her that I didn't want her to do it just because she thought I wanted her to. She didn't say anything in reply and just kept stroking his cock with her hand.

 

I slid my cock back into her pussy and started slowly going in and out. I had to go slow because the whole situation was so erotic. It would have been way too easy to bust a nut and then ruin everything (I lose all interest after I come). I saw her leaning her head forward, so I tilted my head to the side and saw that she was licking his cock. At that point I knew that she was going to blow him, so I just told her that I wanted to watch. I sat down in the chair next to the sofa (it would have been weird to sit next to him) and watched her go to work on his cock. Over the next few minutes she went from licking and stroking him, finally getting to the point where I knew she was going to take him into her mouth. Once his cock was covered with her saliva she placed her lips on the tip and slowly lowered her mouth onto his cock, taking his entire shaft in her mouth and throat before lifting up.

 

She continued to suck his cock for a few more minutes, and then he warned her that she was going to make him cum if she kept going. That kind of snapped her into reality because she didn't want him doing that. She apologized to him and told him that she wasn't going to let him cum in her mouth. And she told him that she couldn't allow him to fuck her, even with a condom. He said it was no big deal. He was thrilled just to get to participate as much as he was.

 

From that point forward we moved to some different positions, usually with my cock in her pussy and her sucking on him. We both licked her pussy for a while. She laid on the floor and we ran our hands all over her, taking turns fucking her with our fingers. She finally wanted to cum (she's a "one and out", like most dudes) so she laid on her back on the sofa, kind of at at angle, while I licked her pussy. Our friend got on his knees on the sofa and lifted her head, guiding his cock into her mouth. After a couple of minutes he told her again that she was going to make him cum. She said "not in my mouth", so when he got really close he pulled out and jacked off on her tits. Once again, I had no problem with this, EXCEPT, I could kinda smell it which grossed me out a little.

 

I continued to focus my tongue on her clitoris and in just a few minutes she came too. Our friend had gotten her some paper towels, so she cleaned herself off. Then the two of us just leaned back together on the couch with me holding her in my arms. Our friend sat down in a chair and the three of us talked for a little while while I stroked my wife's soft skin. She asked me if I wanted to cum right then, but I told her I would after we went to bed.

 

So... Up to this point everything was totally cool. I had no regrets whatsoever, although I was a little concerned that after she woke up the next morning she might regret allowing things to go so far. The next morning we heard him moving around. He had slept in the guest bedroom, or as we call it, the cat's bedroom. She told me that she wanted to get up and fix him breakfast (remember this), but by the time she got out of bed he was already gone.

 

Much to my surprise, rather than regretting what had happened, she was exactly the opposite. She was exuberant. She couldn't stop talking about it. She was already saying that she wanted to do it again, but this time she wanted to make sure he had condoms with him, or that we had condoms, so that he could actually have sex with her. At first I was really happy about this. I was afraid she was going to be ashamed and never want to do it again. Knowing that she had an incredible time made me ecstatic. She came home from work that afternoon and immediately wanted to fuck. During sex she wanted to talk about what was going to happen next time. Her thoughts and words seemed to focus on him, rather than on us. I told her that I thought everything was cool, but I didn't want threesome sex with our friend to become normal sex for us. I wanted it to be an exception, rather than the norm. She seemed too wrapped up in her fantasies to hear what I was saying, though. In the ten years I've known her I had never seen her so exuberant, excited, and aroused. It felt to me like these fantasies were consuming her, and I didn't like it. And that was only day 1.

 

Day two started off kinda normal. I had seen him the day before, and he was cool with everything that had happened. I told Maryann that, but she wanted to talk to him, too. That was fine with me, but then she started telling me what she wanted to tell him. I was torn, because on one hand I didn't want to be consumed by jealousy, but on the other hand it was seeming to me as if she was favoring his feelings over mine. To me, the "encounter" was nothing but a sexual experience. I didn't want it to be anything more than that for me OR her. I didn't want her to have an emotional connection with him because I was a little worried that the same thing that happened with my first wife would happen all over again. But every time she talked about him I could hear the thrill in her voice. And I know it wasn't my imagination. You might be thinking that, but it most definitely wasn't my imagination.

 

Then, on the afternoon of day two she came into the living room and told me that she wanted to go over and talk to him, since she hadn't seen him since "Wednesday" as we are now calling it. The way she said it, it seemed clear to me that she wanted to go talk to him without me present. She saw that I was bothered by that and quickly back-tracked, saying that she meant "we" should go talk to him. But that was the problem I was having. She kept saying he, he, he, rather than we, or me. I felt like I was being left out. We had a long discussion (argument) and everything seemed to be resolved. We didn't go see him right then. But a few hours later, in a moment when she was feeling horny, she said "Wouldn't it be cool if I went over there and just surprised him with a blowjob?"

 

I about lost it. We got in a huge fight. I was like "FUCK NO THAT WOULDN'T BE COOL! Did you not hear anything I said a couple of hours ago? It's supposed to be about me and you! US! Not him! You only want to focus on him!" Realizing what she had said she tried to back-track again, saying that she meant it would be cool if the TWO of us went over there and she gave him a blowjob. Once again I started screaming because she still wasn't getting it, PLUS it seemed as if she was simply trying to cover her faux pas. "THAT STILL WOULDN'T BE COOL!" I screamed. "WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO? STAND IN THE CORNER WITH MY HANDS IN MY POCKET AND WATCH YOU SUCK HIS DICK??? DON'T YOU GET HOW DEMEANING THAT IS???"

 

That proceeded into a huge fight. I punched holes in the wall and bloodied my knuckles on a stud (try not to his the stud when punching holes in the wall). Eventually we calmed down and were able to discuss things in a civil manner. But even though at the end of the conversation, although she was saying that she saw things from my perspective and she wants this type of thing to focus on the two of us and not the third party, I couldn't help but think she was still enamored with my friend and she was just saying what she needed to say to calm me down.

 

We've had a few other arguments since then. I can't seem to get her to understand that I'm not jealous about what happened, I'm jealous about the things she was doing and saying afterwards. I'm jealous that her focus after the fact seemed to be on him rather than on us. I'm jealous that the morning after it happened she was going to make HIM breakfast rather than make US breakfast. I'm jealous that SHE wanted to go talk to him rather US going to talk to him. I'm jealous that she thought it would be cool to go surprise him with a blow job, apparently while leaving me at home or maybe while I just stood there watching or something. Either way, in her fantasy I was out of the picture. She's made other similar comments, but now she seems to have figured out what not to say to avoid upsetting me. But now I can't help to wonder if she's still thinking those types of things are cool and she just doesn't want to say them to avoid upsetting me.

 

Everything that has happened after the fact has put a huge damper on the possibility of it happening again. While she was totally into it the day after and wanted it to happen again as soon as possible, now she has backed off because she thinks I can't handle it. I've explained that "it" was awesome and I'd be happy to do it again, but I don't want to do it again if the focus of what happens isn't on the two of us. She's like "I don't want to be unfair to him" and I'm like "WHO GIVES A FUCK ABOUT HIM! IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT US! He's thrilled just to get to participate in any way. He would have been thrilled just to watch you strip for me, or to just watch us have sex. STOP WORRYING ABOUT HIS FEELINGS AT THE EXPENSE OF MINE!"

 

So anyway, that's it. I know you're only getting my perspective, but I've tried to relay the story in an as objective manner as possible. Do you think I'm being overly sensitive? Do you have any advice? We'd both like to do it again, but I don't want to feel like she's falling for the other guy, and she doesn't want to feel like I'm jealous, angry, and possessive.

[Lionheart72 2,191]

Do you think I'm being overly sensitive?

 

Dude, YOU PUNCHED HOLES IN THE WALL! Not even one hole, but holes, plural! Yes, I think you just might be being overly sensitive.

 

Do you have any advice?

 

Yes... Stop.

 

First, you need to calm down. Second, you need to recognize and accept that your wife is not your ex-wife. Third, you absolutely, positively and totally need to stop doing anything even remotely like swinging until you both deal with the very serious issues that you both are having.

 

Firstly, you and your wife need to talk, very calmly, about what has happened. You need to be both non-threatening and non-threated. You need to tell her how you feel and what you want. You also need to listen to what she feels and what she wants.

 

If I have to guess, your wife has just discovered her "sexual power" and it is intoxicating. She wants more and you gave her permission to explore it. Now, you have withdrawn that permission is an extremely violent way and she is probably very confused and hurt. So you need to talk to her.

 

It seems to me that you both moved a little too quickly. You weren't really clear on what you wanted and what was and wasn't ok. Sexy fun talk in the bedroom is not the same as a clear, sober conversation in the light of day. The clear light of day conversation is what you need to have before you do anything like this again. You both need to agree on what is and isn't ok. You both need to set limits and stick to them.

 

Above all, you both need to talk, talk and talk some more.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Synopsis (as I read it): Swinging was your idea. You introduced it into fantasies and eventually introduced as specific person ( a friend) into your shared fantasies (a friend). She began to accept the idea of a specific person in your shared fantasies and then when the opportunity arose she acted on the fantasy.

 

You had a 3some where she did no more than perform oral on the guy. Afterwards you were worried she would freak out but she didn't. She was happy about the experience and wanted to repeat it. She expressed a desire to talk to the guy. You took it that she meant just her (by her tone, as you said). When you confronted her on this she said that she actually meant both of you. You blew up and got into a huge fight with her saying she was not considering your feelings (and putting him ahead of you).

 

Later, after things calmed down, she again expressed interest in going to visit him and again you blew up (again taking it that she just meant her). You blew up again and things still haven't really settled down. She's not spoken of doing anything again and may or may not be keeping the thoughts to herself.

 

You've lost the desire to have another threesome because of this.

 

Let me know if that synopsis doesn't cut it. I just figured I'd summarize for those who didn't want to read the entire saga.

 

 

 

Things 1: It seems to me after reading through your saga that you may have some control issues you need to work out. This was your big fantasy and you set things in motion, but once you they weren't in your control anymore you freaked out.

 

Did she maybe focus a little too much on playing with him again? Maybe so. However, had you spoken up early on it might not have progressed tot he point that it did. As soon as you were feeling uncomfortable, you should have spoken up. Now, instead you've blown up (multiple times) and probably made things much worse than they needed to be.

 

I doubt there was any real risk of an emotional attachment here. It sounds (much) more to me like "new toy". You gave her a new toy. Then when she wanted to play with it a second time you took it away from her. You were so hot and bothered by the idea of her playing with him. But you never really thought she'd enjoy it as much as she did. She did, however, enjoy it much more than you thought and wanted to do it again (this is typically what happens when people find something new that they enjoy).

 

Thing 2: If she really said (or had intentions) of going over to see him ALONE either time, you've got issues that need to be dealt with. If she really said or intended it after your first blowup then she's just a royal bitch who doesn't care about your feelings at all.

 

I don't really think that's the case, and I doubt you do either.

 

At this point, if I were her and I had any lingering thoughts of having a threesome again (with this guy or anyone else) I wouldn't bother mentioning it either, because I'd be scared you were going to blow up again.

 

We see a lot of posts around here that sound like what I'm imagining her side of this story sounds like:

 

"My husband brought up the idea of us swinging a few years after we got married. He encouraged me to dress more sexy and even convinced me to let him post my pictures on a voyeur site online. It was fun to see the comments, but I never really expected for anything more to happen. He really liked the fantasy of swinging (and I thought that was all it was) and he'd bring it up during sex a lot. While I liked the fantasy I wanted to keep it that way and insisted that we never use specific people in the fantasies.

 

A couple of months ago, he started inserting a specific person into our threesome fantasy that we use during sex sometimes. I was really uncomfortable with this and let him know, but he continued. Eventually, I started playing along with the idea of allowing this guy to be part of our fantasy. He's a friend and he would come over a couple of times a week for dinner and sometimes to shower at our place (he's going through a rough divorce and living in a camper).

 

One night I decided to play with our fantasy a bit and started kissing my husband in front of him. Eventually, I progressed and took my top off. He asked if it was ok for him to just stay and watch and my hubby replied for me that it was fine and that it seemed that was what I had in mind. he was right. Things continued and I let him know that it was ok to watch but nothing more. Eventually, things progressed to the point where my hubby was fucking me doggy style against the couch and our friend was sitting on the couch (to the side of where we were fucking) jerking off. I knew hubby would really love to see something happen and I was so turned on I decided to just help him and stroke him a bit. One thing led to another and we ended up scooting over closer to him and I took him in my mouth. Nothing more happened, except him touching me while hubby had sex and the guys taking turns fingering me.

 

The next few days were great. I couldn't believe it had happened. Hubby and I talked about the possibility of it happening again and I said that I'd be ok with it and would love to go further, so long as he had condoms (or we did). We talked back and forth about it for a couple of days and I said that I'd like for us to go over and talk to him, since we hadn't talked to him since everything happened. He got upset thinking I meant to go over there alone, and I told him that I meant for both of us to go. I don't know what it was but that seemed to set my husband off and he started yelling about how I wasn't listening to him and was thinking more about our friends feelings than his. We went back and forth and things finally calmed down. I thought we were both on the same page again. Later, we'd made up and things were starting to heat up again and I went back to our fantasy and said how cool it would be to go over there and give him a blowjob. He flipped out and really went off, yelling at me about what was he supposed tod o while I gave him a blowjob "stand in the corner and watch?". I tried to calm him down pointing out that he was the one who'd chosen to just watch before rather than continuing to have sex with me, but that I really liked it when it was all 3 of us, and that again no I hadn't wanted to do anything without him.

 

He got so pissed off he punched a wall and we've barely spoken since. We haven't fought either, which is good. At this point there's no way I'd even mention playing again, let alone playing with our friend. I don't know what to do. This was his idea. I don't understand why he's so jealous!"

 

 

- So, now that you've read what her point of view probably looks like... perhaps it's time to go sit down and talk to her hand in hand and ask her what it actually is and really listen. Don't blow up (no matter what she says), don't interrupt her, just let her talk and share her feelings. Then, when she's done you can go back over yours in a calm voice and with a loving manner.

[tribbles 490]

But now I can't help to wonder if she's still thinking those types of things are cool and she just doesn't want to say them to avoid upsetting me.

 

Fer fucks sake.....ur gonna let her thoughts and fantasies...those things all her own and about her, be wrong of her to think but not express to you?

 

She thinks shit. So do you. So does everyone. NOT a big deal.

She figured out what not to say to you cuz yeah, ur toooo fucking sensitive.

 

Stop swinging. You got a lot to deal with. IMHO

[Sammy & Maryann 18]

Do you think I'm being overly sensitive?

 

Dude, YOU PUNCHED HOLES IN THE WALL! Not even one hole, but holes, plural! Yes, I think you just might be being overly sensitive.

 

LOL! I guess you had to be there. I didn't just blow up out of the blue. It was a long conversation and I felt like I had explained to her over and over that I wanted it to be about US, not HIM. This was like an hour-long discussion. I admit that at the beginning I wasn't saying exactly what I was thinking. I was hoping that she'd say the things I wanted her to say without me telling her the words I wanted to hear. But an hour or two into it she just didn't seem to be understanding how I was feeling, despite the fact that I was flat-out telling her at this point that the way she was acting was making me feel very insecure, as if she cares more about his feelings than mine. At that point I just wanted her to say that my feelings were obviously more important to her than his, but instead she started telling me how she was concerned about how he felt about the whole experience, and she wanted to apologize to him because she felt like she had teased him by not allowing him to have sex with her. That's when I lost it. It's like she just wasn't getting it and I couldn't make her understand how her statements were making me feel.

 

 

First, you need to calm down. Second, you need to recognize and accept that your wife is not your ex-wife. Third, you absolutely, positively and totally need to stop doing anything even remotely like swinging until you both deal with the very serious issues that you both are having.

 

Things have calmed down. The wall has been repaired, although I can't find the matching paint. We're having discussions now without the yelling. I know that my wife is not my ex, but in the two days immediately after "Wednesday" I was seeing the same emotions that I saw in my ex, which was disconcerting, to say the least. Right now we've both agreed that nothing else is going to happen until we both understand each other's expectations and we've established some clear rules, and laid out lines that shall not be crossed.

 

But speaking of lines, when we were discussing things that should be off limits I told her that I don't want her kissing anyone because to me kissing just seems too personal. She didn't like that and she started arguing with me about it. She said that to her kissing just seemed to be a part of it, and it would be weird screwing someone face-to-face without kissing them. We spent the next ten minutes discussing it, but I wasn't going to change my mind. I felt the way I felt. Then she was like "well, I don't know". That caused another blow-up. I was like "WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN, "I don't know"? It's a fucking line I don't want crossed! If we can't agree to lines then it can't happen again!" I mean, it seemed to me to be pretty straightforward. If there was something she wasn't comfortable with, a line she didn't want crossed, I wouldn't say "Well, I don't know". I would say that I completely understand and I don't want to do anything that makes you uncomfortable.

 

 

If I have to guess, your wife has just discovered her "sexual power" and it is intoxicating. She wants more and you gave her permission to explore it. Now, you have withdrawn that permission is an extremely violent way and she is probably very confused and hurt. So you need to talk to her.

 

The part about sexual power and intoxicating is definitely true. But I didn't withdraw permission for anything. I simply explained that I want the focus of the experience to be about her and I, not the other person. I've known this dude for 10 years. He's cool with whatever happens. He knows that his role is just to be an accessory. He's fine with that. I'm not saying that I don't want him to have fun, I do. I just don't want my wife worrying about his feelings, cooking him breakfast, giving him random blowjobs without my knowledge, and doing his laundry for him (she did that, too. Didn't mention it above.)

 

It seems to me that you both moved a little too quickly. You weren't really clear on what you wanted and what was and wasn't ok. Sexy fun talk in the bedroom is not the same as a clear, sober conversation in the light of day. The clear light of day conversation is what you need to have before you do anything like this again. You both need to agree on what is and isn't ok. You both need to set limits and stick to them.

 

Above all, you both need to talk, talk and talk some more.

 

I definitely agree with the "moving too quickly" comment. Although we had fantasized about the threesome, and we were both expecting it to happen, I had no idea she was going to jump right into it that evening. We should have spent a lot more time discussing our expectations and rules ahead of time. There was nothing at all sexually that happened that night that I'm jealous about. I have a bigger dick than him. She didn't spend too much time with him. She didn't kiss him or do anything to make me uncomfortable. The whole experience was very cool and surreal. But her reaction the following day was what caught me off-guard. I was sensing actual affection, and that was disturbing. Women seem to have a much harder time than men keeping "sex" and "love" in two separate categories. I was sensing some definite overlap.

 

Synopsis (as I read it): Swinging was your idea. You introduced it into fantasies and eventually introduced as specific person ( a friend) into your shared fantasies (a friend). She began to accept the idea of a specific person in your shared fantasies and then when the opportunity arose she acted on the fantasy.

 

You had a 3some where she did no more than perform oral on the guy. Afterwards you were worried she would freak out but she didn't. She was happy about the experience and wanted to repeat it. She expressed a desire to talk to the guy. You took it that she meant just her (by her tone, as you said). When you confronted her on this she said that she actually meant both of you. You blew up and got into a huge fight with her saying she was not considering your feelings (and putting him ahead of you).

 

Later, after things calmed down, she again expressed interest in going to visit him and again you blew up (again taking it that she just meant her). You blew up again and things still haven't really settled down. She's not spoken of doing anything again and may or may not be keeping the thoughts to herself.

 

You've lost the desire to have another threesome because of this.

 

Let me know if that synopsis doesn't cut it. I just figured I'd summarize for those who didn't want to read the entire saga.

 

Good synopsis, but it seems to downplay the issues that caused me to "blow up". The moment we woke up she said she wanted to get up to make him breakfast. She NEVER gets up to make me breakfast. NEVER. So right from the moment we awoke I was already feeling like she wanted to show him favoritism and do things for him that she doesn't do for me. That just got things off on the wrong foot. BTW, I didn't mention above that sometimes when he comes over to do laundry he'll leave before his laundry is done. In those instances she has taken it out of the dryer the next day and folded if for him. She rarely folds my laundry. It ends up in a pile in the corner of the bedroom floor until I fold it myself. I'm not saying that I think she should fold my laundry. I'm a big boy and I can do my own laundry. But when she folds his laundry and leaves mine on the floor it makes me feel like I'm less important to her than he is. It's a minor thing, I know, but it was a minor little sore point with me that I hadn't even mentioned to her before "Wednesday" happened. The "cook breakfast" comment just compounded that feeling, and it was downhill from there.

 

 

Things 1: It seems to me after reading through your saga that you may have some control issues you need to work out. This was your big fantasy and you set things in motion, but once you they weren't in your control anymore you freaked out.

 

I think you're right, but I disagree about having control issues. I don't want to control her, I just don't want to feel less important than someone else. In my defense, I never expected things to get out of control. I didn't know that she was going to be completely caught up in what happened. I thought her feelings about it would be similar to mine, i.e. I thought she would think it was a really cool sexual experience, but with no emotional connection.

 

Did she maybe focus a little too much on playing with him again? Maybe so. However, had you spoken up early on it might not have progressed tot he point that it did. As soon as you were feeling uncomfortable, you should have spoken up. Now, instead you've blown up (multiple times) and probably made things much worse than they needed to be.

 

No, everything that night was cool. I had no problem with that stuff, and I still don't. I never felt uncomfortable at all. I was more concerned that she might be feeling uncomfortable.

 

 

Thing 2: If she really said (or had intentions) of going over to see him ALONE either time, you've got issues that need to be dealt with. If she really said or intended it after your first blowup then she's just a royal bitch who doesn't care about your feelings at all.

 

I don't really think that's the case, and I doubt you do either.

 

She's not a royal bitch. But I think when she made the comment about going to give him a BJ she wasn't thinking straight. I haven't done a good job of explaining how caught up in this she was. For the next two days she was just ecstatic. She was glowing and exuberant. She told me that "Wednesday" had been consuming her thoughts. She was horny all day at work thinking about it. I'm failing to put her emotions into words. She just had a completely one-track mind for the first day or two, and nothing I was saying to her was having an impact. It wasn't until I "blew up" that she finally realized that something was bothering me.

 

At this point, if I were her and I had any lingering thoughts of having a threesome again (with this guy or anyone else) I wouldn't bother mentioning it either, because I'd be scared you were going to blow up again.

 

We've actually discussed it just about every day. Neither of us are avoiding the issue.

 

We see a lot of posts around here that sound like what I'm imagining her side of this story sounds like:

 

"My husband brought up the idea of us swinging a few years after we got married. He encouraged me to dress more sexy and even convinced me to let him post my pictures on a voyeur site online. It was fun to see the comments, but I never really expected for anything more to happen. He really liked the fantasy of swinging (and I thought that was all it was) and he'd bring it up during sex a lot. While I liked the fantasy I wanted to keep it that way and insisted that we never use specific people in the fantasies.

 

A couple of months ago, he started inserting a specific person into our threesome fantasy that we use during sex sometimes. I was really uncomfortable with this and let him know, but he continued. Eventually, I started playing along with the idea of allowing this guy to be part of our fantasy. He's a friend and he would come over a couple of times a week for dinner and sometimes to shower at our place (he's going through a rough divorce and living in a camper).

 

One night I decided to play with our fantasy a bit and started kissing my husband in front of him. Eventually, I progressed and took my top off. He asked if it was ok for him to just stay and watch and my hubby replied for me that it was fine and that it seemed that was what I had in mind. he was right. Things continued and I let him know that it was ok to watch but nothing more. Eventually, things progressed to the point where my hubby was fucking me doggy style against the couch and our friend was sitting on the couch (to the side of where we were fucking) jerking off. I knew hubby would really love to see something happen and I was so turned on I decided to just help him and stroke him a bit. One thing led to another and we ended up scooting over closer to him and I took him in my mouth. Nothing more happened, except him touching me while hubby had sex and the guys taking turns fingering me.

 

The next few days were great. I couldn't believe it had happened. Hubby and I talked about the possibility of it happening again and I said that I'd be ok with it and would love to go further, so long as he had condoms (or we did). We talked back and forth about it for a couple of days and I said that I'd like for us to go over and talk to him, since we hadn't talked to him since everything happened. He got upset thinking I meant to go over there alone, and I told him that I meant for both of us to go. I don't know what it was but that seemed to set my husband off and he started yelling about how I wasn't listening to him and was thinking more about our friends feelings than his. We went back and forth and things finally calmed down. I thought we were both on the same page again. Later, we'd made up and things were starting to heat up again and I went back to our fantasy and said how cool it would be to go over there and give him a blowjob. He flipped out and really went off, yelling at me about what was he supposed tod o while I gave him a blowjob "stand in the corner and watch?". I tried to calm him down pointing out that he was the one who'd chosen to just watch before rather than continuing to have sex with me, but that I really liked it when it was all 3 of us, and that again no I hadn't wanted to do anything without him.

 

He got so pissed off he punched a wall and we've barely spoken since. We haven't fought either, which is good. At this point there's no way I'd even mention playing again, let alone playing with our friend. I don't know what to do. This was his idea. I don't understand why he's so jealous!"

 

 

- So, now that you've read what her point of view probably looks like... perhaps it's time to go sit down and talk to her hand in hand and ask her what it actually is and really listen. Don't blow up (no matter what she says), don't interrupt her, just let her talk and share her feelings. Then, when she's done you can go back over yours in a calm voice and with a loving manner.

 

I know it's very hard to be objective when talking about personal things, and I've tried to look at her perspective. As we've been talking I've tried to use an analogy to help her understand my feelings. I say "what if the situation was reversed and we had brought another woman into the relationship. Wouldn't you be pissed if I hopped up the next morning and told you that I was going to go fix HER breakfast?" She agrees that that would bother her. Everything that she's said that has bothered me I've asked how she would feel if the same thing had happened in reverse. When I do that she always agrees that it would bother her greatly.

 

Anyway... Thanks for your input, you two. This isn't really something I can discuss with anyone else because I don't know anyone to whom I want to admit my wife and I had a threesome. All of the discussions have been between her and me, or in my head. It helps to just spill my guts to random blips on the internet and get their (your) feedback. You have given me some things to think about. When I created the user name I was thinking that her and I would read this forum together. Maybe we'll still do that. It would be interesting to read her perspective on what happened.

[Sammy & Maryann 18]

But now I can't help to wonder if she's still thinking those types of things are cool and she just doesn't want to say them to avoid upsetting me.

 

Fer fucks sake.....ur gonna let her thoughts and fantasies...those things all her own and about her, be wrong of her to think but not express to you?

 

She thinks shit. So do you. So does everyone. NOT a big deal.

She figured out what not to say to you cuz yeah, ur toooo fucking sensitive.

 

Stop swinging. You got a lot to deal with. IMHO

 

I guess in my quote that you quoted I wasn't really clear. I'm not concerned that she's thinking those things. I'm concerned that she thinks it might be OK to act on those thoughts. That's what happened with my ex. She decided that the threesome with the friend was cool, then she thought it would be cool to fuck him when I wasn't around. Then she decided to act on those thoughts. Everything was cool up to the point where she acted on those thoughts.

 

But you're right. I've got some stuff to deal with. It helps to hear people tell me that I have issues AFTER I've told them the story from my perspective. I was rather expecting at least ONE PERSON to agree with me. The fact that I can tell the story my way and still have people telling me that I have issues tells me something.

[rainbowskye 102]

Before anyone really takes fantasy and brings it to reality you should make sure the following are in place....trust, excellent communication and honesty.

 

It sounds like you guys got the cart before the horse.

 

You introduced the idea to her and now she has acted on it and has enjoyed it.

 

What she is experiencing has nothing to do with emotions for the guy. It is the new toy syndrome. She will get past it , everyone gets past it.

 

Before you guys take the leap again perhaps you should set some boundaries and rules.

 

just a side note....hitting walls regardless of the reason is a sign of domestic violence . Id be careful with those emotions and work on self control. If a neighbor calls the police you can be arrested for it. this happened to my neighbor and he was arrested.

[slevin 1,374]

This is also why I think it's best to do these things, at least at first, with people you aren't friends with. Now you have to see this guy frequently in non-sexual instances. That won't help your worrying, paranoia and concern. Your wife is going to be walking on eggshells and it will be uncomfortable. Not a commentary on the rest of the situation. Just something to think about if you ever get to the point of doing it again. Find someone you don't know. Then if things don't work out you can just move on

[Lionheart72 2,191]

LOL! I guess you had to be there.

 

Oh, I've been there. I even have a scar on my head to prove it.

 

I didn't just blow up out of the blue. It was a long conversation and I felt like I had explained to her over and over that I wanted it to be about US, not HIM. This was like an hour-long discussion. I admit that at the beginning I wasn't saying exactly what I was thinking. I was hoping that she'd say the things I wanted her to say without me telling her the words I wanted to hear. But an hour or two into it she just didn't seem to be understanding how I was feeling, despite the fact that I was flat-out telling her at this point that the way she was acting was making me feel very insecure, as if she cares more about his feelings than mine. At that point I just wanted her to say that my feelings were obviously more important to her than his, but instead she started telling me how she was concerned about how he felt about the whole experience, and she wanted to apologize to him because she felt like she had teased him by not allowing him to have sex with her. That's when I lost it. It's like she just wasn't getting it and I couldn't make her understand how her statements were making me feel.

 

I have alarm bells going off in my head here.

 

Number one, unless your wife is fully functional telepath out of sci-fi comic book, she doesn't know what you want her to say... and it is unfair of you to expect her to guess.

 

This is important. If you are going to swing, you need to be able to communicate openly and honestly. None of this "I wanted her to say X" bullshit. You need to be able to say what you want and listen to what she wants.

 

Number two, you keeping saying that you want it to be "about US" not "about HIM" but everything else you're saying sounds like you want it to be "about YOU" not "about US."

 

Granted, you are here wanting to talk about how this made you feel and that's ok... but I'm not hearing a lot of US in what you say. So, I think that is something you need to seriously think about.

 

I was sensing actual affection, and that was disturbing. Women seem to have a much harder time than men keeping "sex" and "love" in two separate categories. I was sensing some definite overlap.

 

OK, two things again... One: bullshit. Women are just as capable as men at keeping "sex" and "love" seperate. Two: Are you the telepath here, that you can read her mind and know what she is really feeling?

 

Seriously, it sounds to me like you are projecting your feelings, based on your past bad experience with your ex-wife, onto the current situation. You are concerned that the same thing could happen and so you are letting that concern create the crisis in your mind.

 

We're back to: you need to talk to her... and more importantly, you need to listen to her.

[Alura 2,775]

One serious "blow up" can set back a couples' communication years. I think y'all have a lot of repair work to do... together.

 

Alura

[shrevecouple 252]

One serious "blow up" can set back a couples' communication years. I think y'all have a lot of repair work to do... together.

 

Alura

 

I will second that. Very true words here and I can speak from experience.

[TheRedHalf 81]

I about lost it. We got in a huge fight. I was like "FUCK NO THAT WOULDN'T BE COOL! Did you not hear anything I said a couple of hours ago? It's supposed to be about me and you! US! Not him! You only want to focus on him!" Realizing what she had said she tried to back-track again, saying that she meant it would be cool if the TWO of us went over there and she gave him a blowjob. Once again I started screaming because she still wasn't getting it, PLUS it seemed as if she was simply trying to cover her faux pas. "THAT STILL WOULDN'T BE COOL!" I screamed. "WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO? STAND IN THE CORNER WITH MY HANDS IN MY POCKET AND WATCH YOU SUCK HIS DICK??? DON'T YOU GET HOW DEMEANING THAT IS???"

 

That proceeded into a huge fight. I punched holes in the wall and bloodied my knuckles on a stud (try not to his the stud when punching holes in the wall).

 

I would hold off on anymore swapping until you work on your anger issue. Violence is a form of control whether it's against a wall or another person. I think this is the first thing you need to address before you even think of doing something like this again. I tell you this as someone who has been in a similar situation and recovered the relationship. You need to own your feelings and not place any of the blame on your wife.

 

One thing that helps me in my moments is to write down what I'm feeling. Later (after cooling off) I come back to what I've written, clean it up a bit and then and only then discuss it with my wife. I can get my point across much quicker and without the fighting. I also understand that my wife may not always agree with me but acknowledges my feelings. We're not 100% all the time but at least I don't find myself wanting to hit doors anymore. (My wife calls them my terrible 20's)

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

LOL! I guess you had to be there. I didn't just blow up out of the blue. It was a long conversation and I felt like I had explained to her over and over that I wanted it to be about US, not HIM. This was like an hour-long discussion. I admit that at the beginning I wasn't saying exactly what I was thinking. I was hoping that she'd say the things I wanted her to say without me telling her the words I wanted to hear. But an hour or two into it she just didn't seem to be understanding how I was feeling, despite the fact that I was flat-out telling her at this point that the way she was acting was making me feel very insecure, as if she cares more about his feelings than mine.

 

And therein lies the problem. You can't sit back and not say exactly what you are thinking and expect someone else to respond in the way you want them to respond. She doesn't know what you are looking for so there's no way she is just going to respond in the way you want. No matter what she said at that point, unless it was exactly what you wanted to hear, it was going to be wrong.

 

 

 

Things have calmed down. The wall has been repaired, although I can't find the matching paint. We're having discussions now without the yelling. I know that my wife is not my ex, but in the two days immediately after "Wednesday" I was seeing the same emotions that I saw in my ex, which was disconcerting, to say the least.

 

You need to question whether or not you see those things because they are really there or because you were over-reacting and projecting those emotions onto her. Often, especially when we are upset we tend to project onto others our own emotions or different emotions based on the issue we are currently working through.

 

What I was getting at in my earlier post and didn't really hit completely was that in this case you were the one who freaked out. You expected her to be upset afterwards and regret what happened. In fact, you freaked out and you somewhat regretted what happened and questioned it and therefore questioned everything including her emotions and motives.

 

You said initially that she is most honest person you know and that you've never seen her tell a lie. Do you really believe she changed so much that she would turn around and lie to cover her own tracks (as you believed here:

since she hadn't seen him since "Wednesday" as we are now calling it. The way she said it, it seemed clear to me that she wanted to go talk to him without me present. She saw that I was bothered by that and quickly back-tracked, saying that she meant "we" should go talk to him.

 

 

But I think when she made the comment about going to give him a BJ she wasn't thinking straight.

 

I think this is probably more accurate, that she wasn't thinking straight and therefore didn't express herself well. What you took as her covering or back-tracking was just her clarifying what she actually meant as opposed to what she said.

 

 

 

Good synopsis, but it seems to downplay the issues that caused me to "blow up". The moment we woke up she said she wanted to get up to make him breakfast. She NEVER gets up to make me breakfast.

 

Actually, you downplayed that. You told us to pay attention to the fact that she got up to make him breakfast, but you never told us why, other than she said HIM instead of you.

 

One thing that often happens in swinging is the people become more likely to do things for someone "new" than for their regular partner. We tend to take our partners for granted to some degree.

 

So right from the moment we awoke I was already feeling like she wanted to show him favoritism and do things for him that she doesn't do for me.

 

When I said you should have spoke up the moment you felt uncomfortable, this was the moment I was talking about. I wasn't implying that you felt uncomfortable during the act. I was talking about the moment after everything occurred. Again, it was you who woke up the next morning regretting the act. My guess is that even if there had been no breakfast and no comments from her about doing it again you still would have had some issues with what happened. It just would have been different issues.

 

 

I think you're right, but I disagree about having control issues. I don't want to control her, I just don't want to feel less important than someone else. In my defense, I never expected things to get out of control. I didn't know that she was going to be completely caught up in what happened. I thought her feelings about it would be similar to mine, i.e. I thought she would think it was a really cool sexual experience, but with no emotional connection.

 

I didn't say you wanted to control her I just said you have control issues. You want to control situations. You want things on your terms. And when things didn't happen on your terms you got upset. My bet is that she doesn't fold your laundry because at some point when she did you told her she did it wrong (whether directly or indirectly).

 

 

 

I haven't done a good job of explaining how caught up in this she was. For the next two days she was just ecstatic.

 

No we got that loud and clear. However, what you are hearing from us is that we dont' see anything wrong with that. She got a new toy, she was excited about it. As with all new toys, it will wear off. You were just feeling left out because you didn't get a new toy too.

 

She was glowing and exuberant. She told me that "Wednesday" had been consuming her thoughts. She was horny all day at work thinking about it. I'm failing to put her emotions into words. She just had a completely one-track mind for the first day or two, and nothing I was saying to her was having an impact. It wasn't until I "blew up" that she finally realized that something was bothering me.

 

 

She was horny. She was excited. You were upset because she was at work getting horny thinking about that awesome threesome she had with the two of you and you are upset because she wasn't thinking about JUST YOU.

Let me help you

 

 

We've actually discussed it just about every day. Neither of us are avoiding the issue.

 

That's good to hear. But, I hope that the discussion is going both ways and it's not just you hounding her to death trying to reexplain why you are upset, and getting more upset because she's not getting it. I hope that you are in turn listening to her point of view as well.

 

 

Everything that she's said that has bothered me I've asked how she would feel if the same thing had happened in reverse. When I do that she always agrees that it would bother her greatly.

 

So she obviously gets why you are/were upset. So what's the problem?

 

 

 

Number two, you keeping saying that you want it to be "about US" not "about HIM" but everything else you're saying sounds like you want it to be "about YOU" not "about US."

 

Granted, you are here wanting to talk about how this made you feel and that's ok... but I'm not hearing a lot of US in what you say. So, I think that is something you need to seriously think about.

 

Ditto

 

OK, two things again... One: bullshit. Women are just as capable as men at keeping "sex" and "love" separate. Two: Are you the telepath here, that you can read her mind and know what she is really feeling?

 

Seriously, it sounds to me like you are projecting your feelings, based on your past bad experience with your ex-wife, onto the current situation. You are concerned that the same thing could happen and so you are letting that concern create the crisis in your mind.

 

We're back to: you need to talk to her... and more importantly, you need to listen to her.

 

Again ditto on all counts.

[Chicup 42]

There needs to be a word in the English language for men who want their wives to have sex with other men but don't want them to enjoy it.

 

You weren't ready for her to jump in with both feet. This happens with swinging a lot. Old swinger joke I heard years ago. Its the men who drag their wives to the party and the men who drag them FROM the party once they get there.

 

This is simply jealousy here, fear of loss.

 

Of course she was talking about it and talking about him, this was all new to her, and exciting, and better than she thought etc. My wife and I were the same way after our first swing encounter, only it was a couple so we were talking about 'them' rather than 'him'.

 

As for helping you get over it, I don't know. I was in fact jealous the first time we full swapped, I got over it but then again I never punched a wall either, nor did I upset her with it as I knew it was MY problem not hers. Thats LONG past us but I have no idea if you will react the same way I did in the long run.

[slevin 1,374]

There needs to be a word in the English language for men who want their wives to have sex with other men but don't want them to enjoy it.

 

How about a term for this situation? I hereby coin the phrase: post desire aversion. Or how about: male swinger animosity?

[Fundamental Law 2,903]

How about a term for this situation? I hereby coin the phrase: post desire aversion. Or how about: male swinger animosity?

 

I can see it now, a letter to the New England Journal of Medicine describing the new(ly recognized) syndrome. MSA may work better,as "PDA" is already overused .....!

[Sammy & Maryann 18]

I really appreciate everyone's input. It helps to get other people's perspectives.

 

In my defense, however, I think some of you didn't actually read my whole story. It was very long, I know. I should have been much more succinct . Maybe you skimmed it, or you were basing your opinions on other people's comments. I'm not the least bit jealous of what happened that evening, nor did I have "post desire aversion". I thought it was cool then and I think it's cool now. Even if her and I never have another threesome will will both be fantasizing about that one for a long time.

 

My problem was that she was expressing definite affection towards him the following day and the day after that. I've got no problem whatsoever with anything sexual that took place, but I had a very hard time with her expressions of affection. I didn't expect that to happen. And she didn't even seem to understand that they were happening. She was suddenly telling me all of these things she wanted to do for him... things that she doesn't even do for me. And I'm not just talking about sexual things.

 

Anyway... We've probably done about 30 hours of talking in the last 10 days (seriously). We've resolved a bunch of issues that both of us have had for years. We're both happier about most things than we were before "Wednesday". This whole thing has forced us to confront some issues that we had been avoiding, and it appears to be working out for the best.

[rainbowskye 102]

I don't think she is showing him affection in a loving sense. I think she is trying or was trying to show appreciation to a new toy.

 

Generally I see this from women who are the nurturing type. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if she is the nurturing type, as that is what I got from your post. And yes, from my tiny phone screen, I read it word for word.

 

When you are a nurturing personality, it is best to swing with people you don't know. She tried to tell you this when she didn't want you to make it personal i the bed room., but you encouraged it to be personal. Crap happens . No need in blaming one another.

 

You need to focus more on learning about one another. People will always keep their core values but overtime people change. If you don't keep open and honest communication without anger and make time for one another You will run into issues such as these.

 

Best of luck to you guys.

[rainbowskye 102]

I also wanted to add that there is nothing wrong with nurturing people in the lifestyle .

 

I am one and a couple I play with Both are nurturing . I've been real sick and in the hospital pretty much since new years eve. I've just now come home.

 

While I was in the hospital , they sent me flowers and came to see and are on the way to visit now.

 

We are obviously now friends who play but in the beginning we were strangers. I totally respect their relationship and know they do these things because it is a part of who they are, not because there are loving feelings involved.

 

She has total trust when he and I are alone and he has trust when she and I are alone. It is all because we took the time and showed each other the respect when all of this began.

 

I am out of commission for a while and I can't wait to do a full swap now that I have a new beau with them.

[bob35 187]

Just a few thoughts come to mind that may be worth considering:

 

During the "playtime" your thoughts were on actually getting your wife to open up to playing in a 3some.

She decided to go for it and truly enjoyed it more than either of you thought she would.

 

The next morning her hostess mode kicked in and she wanted to make him breakfast.

Meanwhile your focus was no longer on her and your desire to have a 3some.

Rather it became focused on yourself and your immediate wants for time alone with her. This escalated when she could not understand what your sudden shift in thinking was all about. That would confuse anyone.

 

It further escalated when you started playing the victim about things like your having to fold your own laundry vs: her hostess mode / helping out a friend, etc.

 

At this point the best suggestion I could make would be to stop everything and sit down with your wife and talk.

This talk must be from the heart with each of you owning your feelings NOT being a victim and blaming anyone.

 

Each of you CHOSE to engage in this fantasy. Now you get to choose how you are going to move forward TOGETHER.

 

As a way to start this talk I would suggest hat in hand, and owning your personal history that clouded your feelings/reactions and thus your ability to focus on your life together as adults, that went into this together.

 

Get back to that place in your head that you were focusing out onto your partner's pleasure. Once you are able to do that it will get you out of the victim mode of thinking and reacting.

 

I would also strongly suggest that you start being as totally open and honest as you have stated that she has been over the years. By not doing so you are setting yourself up to repeat your first marriage failure.

 

To make a long story short: It appears like you were pushing her to live in the moment, go for it and own her sexuality. She finally broke out of her box and did just that. Then your history kicked in and all of a sudden it was NOT OK to live in the moment and just go for it. Time to leave your history behind or you will just keep repeating it. ( I know - easier said than done )

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

 

Each of you CHOSE to engage in this fantasy. Now you get to choose how you are going to move forward TOGETHER.

 

As a way to start this talk I would suggest hat in hand, and owning your personal history that clouded your feelings/reactions and thus your ability to focus on your life together as adults, that went into this together.

 

Get back to that place in your head that you were focusing out onto your partner's pleasure. Once you are able to do that it will get you out of the victim mode of thinking and reacting.

 

I would also strongly suggest that you start being as totally open and honest as you have stated that she has been over the years. By not doing so you are setting yourself up to repeat your first marriage failure.

 

This entire reply was full of great advice, but I wanted to just refer to this portion and comment that the best way to get is to give. When you are willing to own up to the role you played in this, admit it, apologize and ask forgiveness, she'll be much more likely to do the same (if she hasn't already many times over). Until you can admit that you played a part and forgive yourself, you won't be able to move on and you will continue to rehash this situation both in your own mind and with her.

[Lionheart72 2,191]

Anyway... We've probably done about 30 hours of talking in the last 10 days (seriously). We've resolved a bunch of issues that both of us have had for years. We're both happier about most things than we were before "Wednesday". This whole thing has forced us to confront some issues that we had been avoiding, and it appears to be working out for the best.

 

Bravo! Good for you both!

 

One of the very first times I went to a swingers club, a wise man said to me: "If I can watch my wife sucking another man's cock, I can talk to her about anything."

 

Words to live by, IMO.

[Alura 2,775]

 

One of the very first times I went to a swingers club, a wise man said to me: "If I can watch my wife sucking another man's cock, I can talk to her about anything."

 

Words to live by, IMO.

 

Therein lies the key to why successful swingers stay married, IMO.

 

Alura

[tribbles 490]

I know sex also releases hormones that have a bonding effect...some of us are more influenced by those bonding hormones than others.

 

Maybe she just feels bonded more after sex and with time it will wear off...or she may find doing the same person over and over makes it harder not to get affectionate and emotionally involved.

 

It's not totally within our control, IMO, cuz it's a physical response that affects feelings.

[DigginIt 1,132]

Wow, a lot of great responses (I read the whole story also). Some points may be repeated in my response so I'll apologize up front but sometimes you can't pull points across and assume one's connecting the dots from previous threads.

 

I think I would start this with this statement: what a tragic ending to a fantastic start. And while Chicup's post was a bit of a slam, there is a lot of truth and wisdom in his statement. You can dictate how your other half wants to enjoy the lifestyle. You can't control the outcome or 'direct' it completely like a movie so it goes in a way that you can deal with it emotionally. Someone used the term control issues and they were spot on because you seem to be fine with it when you feel you are in control of the situation. This is where your biggest struggle lies and I think it's coupled by your fear and insecurities over what happened previously with your ex-wife.

 

As I'm criticizing/offering my opinion, I want you to know that it's easy for us to pick apart your story but we all have had our issues here and there in the lifestyle and continue to come across challenges but this is your story.

 

Back to your story...right now, to your wife, this guy represents swinging. You just opened up this whole exciting new world and her excitement right at this moment is completely focused on this guy, my guess, is because of newness and excitement and all of the things going through her mind that she would like to do. She wants to experience more and if you two are communicating and not just talking at each other, you both might actually hear each other and come to a great resolution.

 

I think what she is doing is normal and Couples do what she is doing right now...ALL THE TIME. You have heard the term 'clingy couples' it's because they find a connection and they smother the other couple out of their excitement.

 

Has she let her excitement get the better of her, probably, but you opened the box of wonders and then at the first sign of trouble, snapped the lid shut. It's like a kid having chocolate the first time and telling them they can only have one piece. She is probably going nuts with thoughts. I would guess that had this experience been with another couple where you both had an awesome experience, your outcome would have been a bit different. Maybe you both would have wanted to make the other couple breakfast, go back and talk with them more, have more sex with them...get my point.

 

My concern on her side is her wanting to meet with the guy alone but she just did something that has no comparison. She just had sex with two guys and obviously it rocked her world. You should be excited about that and not let her over excitement get you upset or jealous. I know, easier said than done but you said you trust your wife. Now she want's to try sex with him. I see this simply as eagerness. If your wife brought over her best and hottest girlfriend and said fuck her until your hearts content. I don't think it would be just one time and you would be done.

 

I also get the fact that you don't want to be the guy getting his dick sucked while she fucks the shit out of the other guy but I don't understand why? It's your wife, afterwards when she is fucked silly, go back to your room and have some nice reclamation sex and bask in the afterglow. (PS - I get the smell thing too. I hate it as well, lol. Smells like Clorox to me.)

 

You said you trust your wife but clearly you don't. There is nothing wrong with that but you have to deal with it and I would say quickly because she's on full speed ahead and your in reverse. I think you are threatened by how quickly she took to it. There are a million guys out there that are sitting here reading this thread thinking what a lucky guy, wishing their wives were like yours right now.

 

You have an opportunity at hand right now, the question is are you going to let it be the ruin of you or let it lead you both to new adventures together?

[elizasnew 16]

Given your past experience with your Ex....I'm surprised you encouraged this situation to begin with. Were you setting your current wife up to fall? were you testing her? Did she fail? I don't wish to be offensive. I simply don't understand why you would push a situation that led to a severe hurt in your past.

On another note.... and I don't expect everyone to agree; but I feel that it's a partners responsibility to acknowledge the greatness of the gift of whatever sexy experience you share. I completely understand your hurt. I would take notice of the things she was doing for the other guy if your shoe were on my foot .My partner is foremost in my thoughts... If I were granted a night of "being the center of attention" A lovely breakfast would materialize for MY PARTNER...probably not the other guy unless it was rude to exclude; But i can assure you my partner would have no doubt that he was the one and I would acknowledge the gift of enjoyment he gave me. You got a lot of criticism on this post. Your feelings are not baseless ...they are your feelings. You guys have a lot of things to talk out...

good luck to you both

Eliza