Are they swingers, and am I cheating if I play with them?

[stcharles 2]

I'm new here but not completely new to the lifestyle. As a young, single male I participated in several mfm threesomes - they're my favorite, my fetish, because I love hot women who want and can handle more than one cock at a time Anyway, I'm now happily married but my wife isn't open to the lifestyle

 

Over the past year, I've become very close with a married female coworker but we've never been intimate. She's stunning, fun to be around, a confidant, etc... My wife and I have had her and her husband over to our home on multiple occasions for parties... her husband is very touchy-feely with my wife, when drinking he also talks openly about sexual topics (like wanting to attend a live sex show) and his wife mentions that he's open-minded regarding sex - one time she even told me how he shows her porn. She's always coming to me at work to talk in private, getting close, touching me, bending over to show off her tits and ass... you could cut the sexual tension between us with a knife.

 

So my questions here are:

 

1) are they swingers trying to let us/me know?

 

2) if they are and game and since my wife isn't into the lifestyle, would it be okay to engage in a threesome with them just for fun?

 

In order to be sexually satisfied, I feel like I need to let my freak flag fly again Any help/advise would be greatly appreciated Thanks!

[slevin 1,374]

If you have a threesome with them behind your wife's back that is cheating.

[Fundamental Law 2,891]

The only reasonable response here is a conversation with your wife. She either sees/understands the signals, or she does not.

 

"Swinging" as a concept is a little different than "dating a specific couple". The fact that you and your wife have had them over to your home on multiple occasions, and the fact that her husband is fairly forward with physical contact gives you a perfect entree to ask your wife how she feels about his forwardness. She may not realize what his actions are signalling, and it'll give her some time to reflect.

 

Two things worth remembering:

 

1. You're in a co-worker situation, and bringing up the issues around the LS if that is not the intended message could lead to difficult consequences. If you want to clarify these issues, you need to have an open ended conversation with the other couple away from the workplace. This can be as simple as responding to a invitation to dinner with "what do you guys want to do after dinner?" and see what you get back. Make no assumptions that flirty behavior is anything more.

 

2. If your wife feels no attraction to the other husband, it's probably best for all to leave this at a friendship level. Chemistry exists, or it does not. It cannot be manufactured.

[VegasLee 1,486]

If your wife has no interest in this Lifestyle and you want to keep and respect your wife then I would say you need to forget about three sums or sex with others.

[ViSexual 1,008]

How do you know for certain that your wife wouldn't be interested? If she allows this husband to flirt that much, she might be. Why don't you just ask if she thinks they're trying to come on to you two?

 

And, if you haven't already told her, tell her about your threesome experiences before you married her.

[stcharles 2]

My wife is well aware of my past experiences with threesomes but has never judged me even though she never played. I have told her of my fantasies and that I'd be happy to share her with other guys in 3sums/swinging. She entertained the idea but decided it wasn't for her. She's old school. During sex she will humor me, however, with dirty talk about wanting two dicks, etc. and will allow me to penetrate her ass with my fingers while screwing her from behind, maybe a little mfm porn - but that's about as far as she seems willing to go.

 

I'm sure she's attracted to the other male in this situation - he's cool and clean, good-looking and well built - but I doubt that will matter to her. I'm extremely attracted to my female coworker and I think she's attracted to me too. Last week we spoke on the phone one night for almost 2 hours. We click but more like friends who could have benefits, not romantic love. Anyway, I fantasize about her often. In fact, if they are swingers and possibly reading this, just let me know that you read this and want to play. In private...simply say "we'd like to play" in person or via email/facebook

 

Thanks for the advice y'all

[km34 672]

Only one person said what I immediately thought - IF YOU SLEEP WITH HER (OR THEM) WITHOUT YOUR WIFE'S KNOWLEDGE AND CONSENT, YOU WILL BE CHEATING!

 

Just talk to your wife... She may be fine with you playing without her, but she deserves to at least have her full opinions on the situation heard. If you decide to go against her wishes after that, at least you won't be surprised when she leaves you. And if she supports you, you will have about 10x the fun knowing you get to share the tale when you get home.

[stcharles 2]

Ok, enough with the judgments already! If I'd wanted fire & brimstone, I'd have gone to church, not to a swingers discussion board

 

Now, back to the business at hand, I'm considering a few different methods of approaching this couple to find out if they "play" with others:

 

1) next time we're all together and drinking, pull the husband aside and ask if they've seen the live sex show yet, and go from there.

 

2) when we're alone together, ask the same thing of the wife.

 

They're the kind who would likely ask me if I (or our couple) would like to go with them. I could say that it's not my wife's thing (and it's not), and then their reaction to the three of us going together might be indicative of their inclinations towards to three of us having our own live sex show

 

Any non-judgmental thoughts??

[two4youinswva 3,068]

One question: Has your wife given you approval to play as a single?

[BiloxiCouple 695]

Involve your wife before you do anything.

 

Fire and brimstone comes from experience by members here. You will get negative and positive advice here.

 

We also, have a steadfast rule. Do not play with co-workers. Think about it long and hard.

 

Do what you want it is your life.

[dodgechevy 149]

Ok, enough with the judgments already! If I'd wanted fire & brimstone, I'd have gone to church, not to a swingers discussion board

 

Now, back to the business at hand, I'm considering a few different methods of approaching this couple to find out if they "play" with others:

 

1) next time we're all together and drinking, pull the husband aside and ask if they've seen the live sex show yet, and go from there.

 

2) when we're alone together, ask the same thing of the wife.

 

They're the kind who would likely ask me if I (or our couple) would like to go with them. I could say that it's not my wife's thing (and it's not), and then their reaction to the three of us going together might be indicative of their inclinations towards to three of us having our own live sex show

 

Any non-judgmental thoughts??

 

Holy wow. You haven't spent too much time on really any swingers board/site. A running theme you'll constantly hear about is the distaste people have for cheating married men. For the most part single men are at the bottom of the "contact for play time list," cheating married men are near the bottom of that list.

 

Seeing as how you're new around here. First lesson, just because we swing doesn't mean we have sex with everyone and everything.

[slevin 1,374]

It's swingers board, not cheaters board

[km34 672]

Ok, enough with the judgments already! If I'd wanted fire & brimstone, I'd have gone to church, not to a swingers discussion board

 

Now, back to the business at hand, I'm considering a few different methods of approaching this couple to find out if they "play" with others:

 

1) next time we're all together and drinking, pull the husband aside and ask if they've seen the live sex show yet, and go from there.

 

2) when we're alone together, ask the same thing of the wife.

 

They're the kind who would likely ask me if I (or our couple) would like to go with them. I could say that it's not my wife's thing (and it's not), and then their reaction to the three of us going together might be indicative of their inclinations towards to three of us having our own live sex show

 

Any non-judgmental thoughts??

 

Your first post asked for our help/advice on whether it would be okay to have a threesome without your wife. Well, our advice is to not cheat on your wife, therefore no, it's not okay. You can obviously make your own decision, but those are the general ethical views of swingers: do what you want, but don't cheat. Like I said before, if you talk to her about it and she okays you to play solo, you are going to enjoy it sooooo much more and diminish the likelihood of negative consequences.

 

As for non-judgmental thoughts... I can't speak for the rest of the members, but I personally wasn't and still am not trying to be judgmental, but realistic. Sure, my moral code may be stricter than yours and prevent me from cheating, but practical things would keep me from it too - and those practical reasons apply to you too. For one, I wouldn't want to end up dumped because of sex. I also wouldn't want to jeopardize my work situation by getting involved with a coworker.

[Cajun2Step 65]

Your first post asked for our help/advice on whether it would be okay to have a threesome without your wife. Well, our advice is to not cheat on your wife, therefore no, it's not okay. You can obviously make your own decision, but those are the general ethical views of swingers: do what you want, but don't cheat. Like I said before, if you talk to her about it and she okays you to play solo, you are going to enjoy it sooooo much more and diminish the likelihood of negative consequences.

 

As for non-judgmental thoughts... I can't speak for the rest of the members, but I personally wasn't and still am not trying to be judgmental, but realistic. Sure, my moral code may be stricter than yours and prevent me from cheating, but practical things would keep me from it too - and those practical reasons apply to you too. For one, I wouldn't want to end up dumped because of sex. I also wouldn't want to jeopardize my work situation by getting involved with a coworker.

 

We would like to say the above is some of the best advice you will ever get on this subject. Our opinion is:

 

1. No wife as part of the deal....No sex!!! You should absolutely talk it through until you get her acceptance or don't do it. However you cut the cake, this would be cheating in our opinion and will probably be hers also.

 

2. Playing at work or with a co-worker is a recipe for disaster.

 

3. Be cautious, very cautious. What seems like a great dream today, will likely be a nightmare tomorrow.

[stcharles 2]

Cheating is subjective but that aside I wasn't asking for a moral judgment on my relationship with my wife here so much as asking about my relationship with this other couple, signs that they may be giving off about wanting to play, etc.

 

This thread has turned into a potential cheaters bash-fest! If I just wanted to cheat, I could have done so many times since we've been together. That's not what this is!! I just wanna play with this couple from time to time, if they're game that is. It's just sex - nothing more. I'm not looking to cheat on an emotional, romantic level.

 

Also, I find it a bit ironic that a group of people most of whom lie about their true selves to satisfy their sexual needs and to maintain protection from potentially judgmental communities would judge me for merely contemplating having a threesome to satisfy my sexual needs without informing my immediate community (i.e. my wife) - that's just hypocritical imho

 

Focus, people

[two4youinswva 3,068]

Also, I find it a bit ironic that a group of people most of whom lie about their true selves to satisfy their sexual needs and to maintain protection from potentially judgmental communities would judge me for merely contemplating having a threesome to satisfy my sexual needs without informing my immediate community (i.e. my wife) - that's just hypocritical imho

 

Call it what you will, but if you are doing it without your partner's knowledge and consent, then we can't help you. There are boards out there that will help you do this, but this isn't one of them.

 

Good luck to you, and your wife.

[PB&J 1,086]

If they are and game and since my wife isn't into the lifestyle, would it be okay to engage in a threesome with them just for fun?

 

any help/advice would be greatly appreciated thanks!

 

You asked, members have answered. You just don't like the answer.

[km34 672]

You asked, members have answered. You just don't like the answer.

 

That's that, I believe.

 

After a few months on this board, I feel like becoming an activist for Radical Honesty in relationships!

[Chicup 41]

Also, I find it a bit ironic that a group of people most of whom lie about their true selves to satisfy their sexual needs and to maintain protection from potentially judgmental communities would judge me for merely contemplating having a threesome to satisfy my sexual needs without informing my immediate community (i.e. my wife) - that's just hypocritical imho

 

Focus, people

 

I lie to the babysitter, not my wife.

[Alura 2,774]

Also, I find it a bit ironic that a group of people most of whom lie about their true selves to satisfy their sexual needs and to maintain protection from potentially judgmental communities would judge me for merely contemplating having a threesome to satisfy my sexual needs without informing my immediate community (i.e. my wife) - that's just hypocritical imho

 

Focus, people

 

Many people who come to this board find it ironic that swingers "hide things" from their neighbors but not from their spouses.

 

Most often, they turn out to be those who don't understand the lifestyle. Many think there is little, if any, difference between swinging and cheating. I'm here to tell you that there is a big difference. That difference is that we don't lie to (or cheat on) our spouses.

[stcharles 2]

this board must be for Baptist swingers

[slevin 1,374]

this board must be for Baptist swingers

 

Sucks when you don't get the answer you want eh?

[tallicafan 41]

Some people just don't get this.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

this board must be for Baptist swingers

 

I don't know about Baptists, but I do know this weekend when my wife and I are having hot sex with another couple we won't have to worry about what would happen if the other one found out. We won't have to think about how our marriage might be destroyed because one of us fucked someone without the other person's knowledge or consent. And yes, I do expect there will be a couple of "Oh Gods!" during that time as well.

 

So maybe this atheist has a little Baptist in him after all. It's only fair I suppose, since chances are I've put a some atheist into one or two Baptists over the last few years.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

cheating is subjective

 

Cheating is not subjective. Every time I have heard that statement it came from a cheater.

 

it's just sex - nothing more. I'm not looking to cheat on an emotional, romantic level.

 

Go ahead, have sex with the couple without your wife's knowledge or permission. Then tell her it was only sex, not cheating, because it was not emotional or romantic. Let us know what she and her lawyer say.

 

also, I find it a bit ironic that a group of people most of whom lie about their true selves to satisfy their sexual needs and to maintain protection from potentially judgmental communities would judge me for merely contemplating having a 3sum to satisfy my sexual needs without informing my immediate community (i.e. my wife) - that's just hypocritical imho

 

While you may not agree with this communities morality, ethics, or differentiating between swinging and cheating, you did come here and ask advice. Take it or leave it. We share everything with our spouses, yet you call us hypocritical for not telling the general public what we do, while you contemplate having sex with another couple behind your wife's back. Now that is irony.

 

focus, people

 

Focus. Okay here is some focus for you. Grow a pair and ask the other couple if they are swingers and if they are interested in playing. If they are, ask your wife if you can have sex with them. Then you will know and can decide for yourself if you should have sex with them. That way you don't have to suffer the derision of a bunch of hypocrites. Focused enough?

[HornyGeeks 15]

Hi St Charles, I think you are missing the point of everyone's posts (no offense intended).

 

The signs they are giving off, I don't know if it makes them swingers, if they get excited talking about sex with friends or are just generally open-minded with sexual topics.

 

What everyone has said here is that your wife is not comfortable with swinging obviously or a 3-some or any sort of open sexual play, which means, it is totally irrelevant if they are swingers or not, if they were, and you played without your wife's consent/encouragement. The consequences to you playing outside your marriage could be severe.

 

I think in this case as well that you need more than just consent from your wife but have an open and honest discussion about your needs and her desires and the situation as it has presented itself.

 

I find it amusing that you think we really do lie about our true selves here, creating that kind of deception takes time and energy my bf and i don't want to waste, like most people here we are upfront and honest so we can find similar people to be with and enjoy our time with. If we make ourselves out to be people we are not then the people we will meet will be all wrong.

 

We see in others what we do ourselves, so you see deception in all of us, what are you deceiving others about?

 

Good Luck.

[Coffeeblack 38]

Go ahead! Do it!

 

Have sex behind your wife's back, be selfish and get yours. Who cares about what other people think or says...especially your wife. She doesn't know how much freaky fun she's missing out on anyway. Besides, she's holding you back. Let your "Freak flag fly". She'll never find out, and if she does, so what! What you guys have together ain't shit compared to that fine piece of ass on the side...right!? She wants to give it to you anyway.

 

Dude, seriously...it kinda sucks that total strangers care more about your relationship then you do. Trust me, whatever you're thinking and planning, is NOT worth it. I know it's hard not having your way, or not hearing what you want to hear. For a second, think about the repercussions if your wife finds out you basically said, FUCK WHAT SHE THINKS...I'M DOING WHAT I WANT!!

 

Bottomline it's NOT worth it. Trust me. Been there, done that.

 

Good Luck!

[LFM2 1,482]

If you have a threesome with them behind your wife's back that is cheating.

 

If your wife has no interest in this Lifestyle and you want to keep and respect your wife then I would say you need to forget about three sums or sex with others.

 

Only one person said what I immediately thought - IF YOU SLEEP WITH HER (OR THEM) WITHOUT YOUR WIFE'S KNOWLEDGE AND CONSENT, YOU WILL BE CHEATING!

 

Just talk to your wife... She may be fine with you playing without her, but she deserves to at least have her full opinions on the situation heard. If you decide to go against her wishes after that, at least you won't be surprised when she leaves you. And if she supports you, you will have about 10x the fun knowing you get to share the tale when you get home.

 

Involve your wife before you do anything.

 

Fire and brimstone comes from experience by members here. You will get negative and positive advice here.

 

We also, have a steadfast rule. Do not play with co-workers. Think about it long and hard.

 

Do what you want it is your life.

 

Your first post asked for our help/advice on whether it would be okay to have a threesome without your wife. Well, our advice is to not cheat on your wife, therefore no, it's not okay. You can obviously make your own decision, but those are the general ethical views of swingers: do what you want, but don't cheat. Like I said before, if you talk to her about it and she okays you to play solo, you are going to enjoy it sooooo much more and diminish the likelihood of negative consequences.

 

 

As for non-judgmental thoughts... I can't speak for the rest of the members, but I personally wasn't and still am not trying to be judgmental, but realistic. Sure, my moral code may be stricter than yours and prevent me from cheating, but practical things would keep me from it too - and those practical reasons apply to you too. For one, I wouldn't want to end up dumped because of sex. I also wouldn't want to jeopardize my work situation by getting involved with a coworker.

 

We would like to say the above is some of the best advice you will ever get on this subject. Our opinion is:

 

1. No wife as part of the deal....No sex!!! You should absolutely talk it through until you get her acceptance or don't do it. However you cut the cake, this would be cheating in our opinion and will probably be hers also.

 

2. Playing at work or with a co-worker is a recipe for disaster.

 

3. Be cautious, very cautious. What seems like a great dream today, will likely be a nightmare tomorrow.

 

Call it what you will, but if you are doing it without your partner's knowledge and consent, then we can't help you. There are boards out there that will help you do this, but this isn't one of them.

 

Good luck to you, and your wife.

 

You asked, members have answered. You just don't like the answer.

 

Many people who come to this board find it ironic that swingers "hide things" from their neighbors but not from their spouses.

 

Most often, they turn out to be those who don't understand the lifestyle. Many think there is little, if any, difference between swinging and cheating. I'm here to tell you that there is a big difference. That difference is that we don't lie to (or cheat on) our spouses.

 

Alura

 

I don't know about Baptists, but I do know this weekend when my wife and I are having hot sex with another couple we won't have to worry about what would happen if the other one found out. We won't have to think about how our marriage might be destroyed because one of us fucked someone without the other person's knowledge or consent. And yes, I do expect there will be a couple of "Oh Gods!" during that time as well.

 

So maybe this atheist has a little Baptist in him after all. It's only fair I suppose, since chances are I've put a some atheist into one or two Baptists over the last few years.

 

Hi St Charles, I think you are missing the point of everyone's posts ( no offense intended)

 

The signs they are giving off, i don't know if it makes them swingers, if they get excited talking about sex with friends or are just generally open-minded with sexual topics.

 

What everyone has said here is that your wife is not comfortable with swinging obviously or a 3-some or any sort of open sexual play, which means, its totally irrelevant if they are swingers or not, if they were, and you played without your wife's consent/encouragement. The consequences to you playing outside your marriage could be severe.

 

I think in this case as well that you need more than just consent from your wife but have an open and honest discussion about your needs and her desires and the situation as it has presented itself.

 

I find it amusing that you think we really do lie about our true selves here, creating that kind of deception takes time and energy my bf and i don't want to waste, like most people here we are upfront and honest so we can find similar people to be with and enjoy our time with. If we make ourselves out to be people we are not then the people we will meet will be all wrong.

 

Good Luck.

 

And this is why I love the Swingers Board!!

[IEcouple 222]

As the others said, cheating is not the same thing as swinging. One of the reasons that so many swingers have to be discreet is that it's too cumbersome to have to deal with the judgments of others. And one of the biggest misconceptions is that swingers are cheating on their spouses. So swingers are especially sensitive to any attempt to confuse the two.

 

If the OP is already having long, intimate conversations with the other woman, then he may have already crossed a line according to his wife. The only definition of cheating that matters is that of your significant other.

[Hammocksex 27]

Marriage issue first and swinger issue second. You said you were happily married but your wife "isn't open to the LS". There is your answer! If you want to stay happily married, you do not worry about any of the rest of your posting. All that is meaningless pie-in-the-sky fantasy; the other couple, the attractions and so forth. Means nothing if your wife is not cool with it. Your focus should be to change the way your wife views the LS. That is your only choice if you want to stay happily married. You change her view, then finding out about this couple or any other will be easy. I don't think too many above were saying don't cheat for preachy reasons, I think they mean what I mean. Cheating ruins marriages and that is just a reality I think all are referring to. Get your sex life right within your marriage first, meaning change her view on this if it is important to you, and then go have the fun you are wanting. Explore this site and my guess is that you'll find lots of discussions on how one might do that very thing.

[Frzrbrn 15]

I was going to reply, and I kept backspacing my paragraphs trying to be polite.

 

Truncated version: "It's cheating... You've got a chip on your shoulder... If you can sleep at night while maintaining the lie no forum reply from random person X "that lie about their true selves" is going to be of any value or insight to you.

[Alura 2,774]

Cheating is subjective but that aside I wasn't asking for a moral judgment on my relationship with my wife here so much as asking about my relationship with this other couple, signs that they may be giving off about wanting to play, etc.

 

This thread has turned into a potential cheaters bash-fest! If I just wanted to cheat, I could have done so many times since we've been together. That's not what this is!! I just wanna play with this couple from time to time, if they're game that is. It's just sex - nothing more. I'm not looking to cheat on an emotional, romantic level.

 

Also, I find it a bit ironic that a group of people most of whom lie about their true selves to satisfy their sexual needs and to maintain protection from potentially judgmental communities would judge me for merely contemplating having a threesome to satisfy my sexual needs without informing my immediate community (i.e. my wife) - that's just hypocritical imho

 

Focus, people

 

Cheating is not subjective. If you're fucking someone else (or even thinking about it) without your wife's knowledge and approval, it's cheating. Most on this board will agree.

 

Don't feel special. We pounce on all cheaters. Cheating is diametrically opposed to all we hold dear.

 

I don't believe Mrs. Alura or I ever lied to anybody to "satisfy our sexual needs." That you seem to think it's okay (even excusable), gives some idea of why your reception here has been cool, at best.

 

Focus, cheater!

[Lionheart72 2,190]

Ok, I think we all know the original poster on this thread is long gone and likely never to come back.... but since the thread is still here.

 

Don't feel special. We pounce on all cheaters. Cheating is diametrically opposed to all we hold dear.

 

I think this is just amazing. True, wonderful and something I agree with 100%, but really, really amazing. The idea that swinging and cheating are diametrically opposed ideals is a concept that I would really love to see explored.

 

I think cheating is about lying, concealment and hidden emotion while swinging is about honesty, openness and trust. I would love to hear what other folks think about this.

[interested-05 135]

Ok, enough with the judgments already! If I'd wanted fire & brimstone, I'd have gone to church, not to a swingers discussion board

 

Now, back to the business at hand, I'm considering a few different methods of approaching this couple to find out if they "play" with others:

 

1) next time we're all together and drinking, pull the husband aside and ask if they've seen the live sex show yet, and go from there.

 

2) when we're alone together, ask the same thing of the wife.

 

They're the kind who would likely ask me if I (or our couple) would like to go with them. I could say that it's not my wife's thing (and it's not), and then their reaction to the three of us going together might be indicative of their inclinations towards to three of us having our own live sex show

 

Any non-judgmental thoughts??

 

Seems the real truth here is you really don't want advice from swingers. Swingers are in this together with whatever rules they both agree too. If you wish to have sex w/o her knowledge then you choose to cheat. it isn't religion or fire and brimstone, it is simply defining yourself and your choices. If you wish to have sex with them you will probably have fun, but chances are you will also pay the price for your choices.