Question about soft swing problems

[latin2012 22]

Has anyone else had this problem with soft swing? To some, does soft swing mean: let me do as much as I can get away with (short of fucking) to your wife, while my wife does very little with you?

 

First let me start out, by saying this is not a “story” about a dorky guy with a HOT wife that everyone wants to use but not include him. I am interested in opinions of couples that might have had this happen to also.

 

We are both Hispanic in our late 40’s. Just started going to swingers clubs. Have enjoyed it very much even when we don’t hook up with anyone else, having sex in a public place legally is a big turn on to the both of us. She is a tall, BBW, attractive, certainly has been told she does not look like she is in her late 40’s nice big boobs. She is beautiful to me, but I would never expect to see her on the cover of a magazine (not being mean, just being realistic for this blog). I am a little short and on the cubby side but I don’t consider my self a troll as I have flirted with many girls and have been with many female partners in my day (which has now been brought down to 1 for the past 17 years). Not really huge just average down there.

 

OK now for the problem: We have gone to a swingers club several times and while there we have hooked up with two different couples while there, different times, not with both at the same time. Both couples were very nice. We talked in the common area for hours with both couples, getting to know stuff about each other before even coming close to doing anything. We both (them and us) stated our intentions of just interested in soft swing for now…. but who knows later maybe more. Couple number 1 had joined us in the on site sex rooms. I played, had great sex with my wife. They were directly next to us on the same bed doing basically the same or so I thought. I must admit I had had way too much to drink that night (and because if this I have never gotten that drunk again). At one point while laying on my back next to his wife (side by side) my wife giving me the best BJ ever (and she is really good at them), she was more or less in a doggy position. He was fucking his wife missionary. After a few minutes I did not notice but he was on his knees leaning back away from her. I had placed my face close to her pussy and was just looking as I thought soft swing meant no touching. Little did I know that while I was doing this, he was ramming his fingers into my wife’s pussy. She told me this after we were driving off and said our good byes. I was not mad at all, and did not think anything about.

 

Second couple we hooked up basically the same way ended in the sex area. My wife trying to give him a BJ which last only for a little while, him eating out my wife for a long time. Me this time doing more than just smelling I actually ate my first other pussy in 17 years. This I thought this was way awsume, I was in heaven!! And for a while there was even some heavy girl on girl kissing and tittie sucking, which turned us guys on very much. The nite ended. Decided we might give this couple another try later. I communicated with other husband on line for several days getting to know more likes and dislikes as well as what were their interests in swing.

 

Later came, we hooked up with the intention of only soft swing still no definite “more” but “thinking about”. This time my wife gave him a longer BJ and he returned the favor. Me, I am still eating out pussy and that is ok I guess, but nothing else. Like caressing, kissing, spooning, tittie sucking or dang even getting jerked off??? I mean come on, my wife and her husband were doing all of the mentioned. Put them in a car and they could have been two horny teenagers NOT going all the way lol. I am not saying I was mad at them or wanted them to stop, but I sure wanted to have the same fun too. It seemed like it was trouble to do so on her part and I am not one to force someone or make them feel like they “need” to follow though. So the nite ended, at the time I had enjoyed it but it did not seem as great as the first time.

 

We ended up on a chance meeting with the first couple again, at the club. They were very nice the first time and had the same friendly greeting the second time. My wife still was not happy about the first finger fucking session. She did not saying anything about it then because she did not want to make a scene and it was not that she did not want him to do it, just not as rough as he did. So it was understood that my wife did not want to play with them. BUT as the night went on and she had more drinks in her, she became more forgiving of his previous actions. They were already in the play room, when my wife and I decided to go play. We were going to play just by ourselves no intention of hooking up with anyone. They saw us and like I mentioned my wife was more forgiving now with a few drinks in her and said she it was ok for them to join us again in a private room. It was pretty awsume. We had not talked before getting together again but I assumed we were still doing soft swing (full swap would have been more than ok with us) so my wife rode me hard, he ate his wife, we were all in same bed. She sat up next to us and he stood up next to her face and had her sucking on his cock. He was very close to my wife’s face as well and I could see very well as I was under them all. This was the first time she really got a good look at his cock as it was so close to her face while his wife was sucking on it. Even from my position you could see it was pretty big and thick, height and weight wise we were almost the same (lucky guy). As my wife continued to ride me hard, I started nudging her face toward his cock to show her it was ok with me if she sucked on him too. She nudged away as she did not want to suck on him. After staring at his wife for a few more minutes I guess my wife decided to give in and also started sucking on him. Both my wife and his started sucking on him. I had no complaints, this only made my wife ride me even harder. Later on she had told me that while she was holding on to his dick with one hand and sucking him, she was majorly finger fucking his wife’s pussy hard with her other hand (at the time his wife was in a kneeling position next to my wife, so she was able get her “revenge” and finger fuck her hard as he had done to my wife the last time. He liked my wife’s BJ, he started slapping my wife’s ass with his hand to show his approval. After a few more of that that I guess he could not take it anymore and wanted to do some more fucking (never making a move for my wife) he got his wife and started fucking her in different positions, and we also basically did the same. Also he would reach over and grab my wife’s breasts and so did his wife and we did the same. After he fucked his wife hard, I could see he was coming in his wife. They then said they had to leave which they did. We continued on for about an hour later and left also. Though at the time I thought I had an awsume time….. until I had time to think about and here is the problem:

 

After thinking about it and if you read what happened.. do you think I missed out on the action??? My wife seems to have really played with the husbands (including me) she has always made sure that I was serviced, but I have never really played with the other wives nor did their husbands encourage their wives to go further as I did mine, NOR did I feel it was my place to ask their wives if they wanted to go further (sucking my cock or hell I would have been happy getting jacked off) because it was “understood” that it was soft swap, EVEN though their husbands had no probable getting sucked off by mine. The more I think about it the angrier I get. I told my wife, it’s like we all brought our sex toys to the party and everyone wanted to use mine, but either THEIRS were broken or they don’t want me to use theirs. After talking to my wife she agreed that even though she really enjoyed what she did, that she did feel I was being left out also and thought it was not fair. The only reason I did not put my foot down totally is because there has not been any real penetration. I think I would loose it if I saw my wife fucking another guy and I was stuck there just eating pussy again. I also thought that if the husband and my wife started fucking around and I was stuck there again with a cold fish and my dick in my hand… hey why just sit there and watch, this is my wife I can play with her.. the cold fish can do whatever she wants. My wife loves to be the center of attention and has no probable with getting doubled up (what are some of your opinions on this??) She told me if that happened she would not care… she would do anything I wanted her too…That’s why I lover her so much.. Should we stop telling new people we are interested in “soft swing? My wife and I have agreed we would be willing to do a full swap same room. Oh well would love to hear about your experiences, suggestions, opinions THANKS everyone so sorry it turned into a long story but I wanted you all to have the whole story and it happened during several different days not just one event.

[km34 672]

Hmm... Well, I think the main problem is the lack of communication in general. Sure, you established both couples you've played with were looking for soft swing, but you didn't clarify specific boundaries and expectations. Soft swing can be anything from same room play with your own partners to swapping and doing anything besides PIV sex. You and your wife also seemed to be on slightly different wavelengths (although not terribly so) since you ended up feeling slightly left out. Getting swept up in the moment is always a threat, which brings me to point number 2...

 

Secondly, I think you should definitely watch the amount of alcohol you consume. If your wife is drinking enough to change her opinion of a couple THAT drastically, then it's probably too much. She needs to make sure she keeps a clear enough head to make wise decisions. You both also need to be able to be aware of what's going on with your partner at all times to make sure both of you are comfortable with all that's going on - this is especially important in new situations.

 

Also, you both need to be willing and able to speak up and say what you want. If she didn't want his fingers in her pussy, she should have said so. At that moment. Not told you about it later, complained about it, and then play with him again the next time she sees him without ever even mentioning the discomfort that arose from the previous interaction. If you feel left out, either tell your wife so she can focus more on you or throw it out there that you'd like to switch positions with the other wife since you've apparently been more than gracious in the giving department.

 

I would be wary of moving to full swap until you've had at least one completely positive soft experience. What if you get into a full swap situation and you find out the woman is just going to lie there without really being into it, but your wife is having a ball being all crazy with the other guy? You're going to end up even more frustrated/pissed/hurt than you feel after a less than satisfying soft experience. Now, if you find a couple where the WOMAN is making the moves on you instead of the man making the moves on your wife, you'd probably be safe doing whatever struck your fancy.

 

 

The main thing I would suggest is being much clearer about what you mean by soft swing. Tell people you want either same room, no interaction or anything but penetration goes! Or somewhere between. Talk to each other and figure out exactly what you want to do on a given night so that you go in as a unit prepared to uphold your boundaries. Make sure you're on the same page and them communicate ALL of your boundaries/expectations with potential hookups. How are they supposed to know what is and isn't acceptable if you're not even sure?

[JM153 346]

I have also observed that in playing with another couple it is not unusual for one twosome to get into it more than the other. You may find with experience that sometimes it is your wife and the other guy that really get into it and sometimes it is you and the other woman. Sometimes all four will really get into it, but often that is not the case. If you go into a situation like you describe with the attitude that it is OK if only one of you get the action you will have more fun and be less frustrated. What I had to learn is when I am feeling left out to just join in with my partner or as you put it double up or you can ask the other woman for what you want - just be OK if she says no. In sum, if you don't keep score you will enjoy the lifestyle a lot more.

[latin2012 22]

Thank you very good advice. As I mentioned we are very new to this and I think you hit the nail right on the head. I went into this thinking "great i'm gonna be having a lot of fun" (as well as my wife) This whole thing happened with me putting a bug in my wife ear by telling her about the club in the first place. I was very surprised that she suggested we go and she even was starting to change her mind when we first got there. She still does not initiate the "let go out there" and a few times I have had to talk her into it. But when we have gone she does seem to really enjoy it and have fun. Like you mentioned I think she needs to also slow down her drinking as I did also. If she wants to continue, your right she needs to be in her right mind. She did mention the last time that there were a few things she did that were kinda of fuzzy. She did mention that she did not approve of the one side plan also, I think if she was drunk like you mentioned she might not make the right decisions and continue just upsetting me more. Thanks you, your reply gave me a lot to think about.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

First off, soft swap means any variety of things - basically anything from just playing in the same room to anything short of sex. It's important to set your own boundaries and state them clearly to those you play with.

 

This time my wife gave him a longer BJ and he returned the favor. Me, I am still eating out pussy and that is ok I guess, but nothing else. Like caressing, kissing, spooning, tittie sucking or dang even getting jerked off??? I mean come on, my wife and her husband were doing all of the mentioned. Put them in a car and they could have been two horny teenagers NOT going all the way lol. I am not saying I was mad at them or wanted them to stop, but I sure wanted to have the same fun too.

 

So basically you wanted a BJ and you didn't get it. Some women just don't enjoy giving head and that may not have been her thing. It sounds like they were a couple who are open to full-swap and that may be what they prefer. It doesn't sound like lack of interest on her part or leaving you out in any way - just different preferences.

 

Group room/same bed situations where couples kind of bleed into each other don't typically go in the same direction as when you converse with a couple and make plans to play together. Very often they are exactly what you described and more often it's only the girls playing with each other.

 

It is ok to ask for what you want. It's not ok to be pushy about it or to get upset later when you didn't get something you never asked for.

 

Reading through your situations, I don't really see where you missed out on anything. It sounds like you are a little jealous of other guys getting their dicks sucked, but there's really nothing to be jealous of - in the last situation you were getting fucked. Had you not been you might have gotten your dick sucked too. You encouraged your wife to go further, which is a large part of why she did. Everyone's limits are different and every situation plays out differently.

 

I pretty much have to agree with everything km34 said above. Right now it does not sound like full swap is a direction that should go. As you said, if you saw your wife getting fucked while you were stuck with a woman who didn't seem completely into you, you'd be pissed. I think your best direction is to really establish what you are comfortable with, be more clear with stating what you are looking for up front. Avoid drinking so much that you push your own boundaries and do things you wouldn't be comfortable with sober.

[latin2012 22]

Thanks good advice also. Like I mentioned I am not jealous of my wife and him. We had done MFM where we had full penetration before and it was awsume seeing her enjoy herself with another and I was not left out (lol unless I was tired and sat out for a while) she was very capable of taking care of the both us. It's just when you have another female there and she is not really wanting to do anything with you not in a rude way... but not as assertive as my wife, it just bums you out. Thats why I thought and talked to to my wife about it, that if this happened again if I just joined them. she had no prob with that and told me she would be more than happy to service me also at the same time. Thats why I asked for opinions on this, I did not want to come across as rude or ignoring the others partner, especially if they are not enthusiastic about playing with me as her partner is with playing with my wife.

[latin2012 22]

Thank you for the advice. Sorry but I thought I had mentioned this but after re reading I did not. Before we played with each others wife, we were playing with our own wives. My wife was riding me and they were 69ing very hard, that was what had gotten me so excited in the first place. So it was not a preference thing. Later he mentioned "sorry her jaw was hurting" (yeah sure). Even before we went to the play room, when we were in the common room ...her attitude was like Ok let's get this over with. My wife picked up on this right away. we should have just played together and let him deal with his wife. And as for the other couple I think she wanted to play more with my wife than me, but she did not (he had in a previous time asked my wife if she was bi and she stated no, but the alcohol made her say yes that day). all in all i think it was more of a learning experience. I have definitely stopped drinking so much when we go there because I want to stay clear headed (maybe that's the prob, first time with a cpl I got totally wasted and did not remember what I did) We had already taken a step back for her after the second cpl meet, that was more physical for her, she was not too sure how far to go. Now I guess its my turn we need to get together and see what I am comfortable with and not. Thanks again.

[latin2012 22]

I just want to thank everyone for responding with helpful information and not just criticizing.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Later he mentioned "sorry her jaw was hurting" (yeah sure).

 

Sorry but as someone with TMJ this comment really struck me. I love giving head but I have jaw issues and that does get in the way sometimes. I can't go as long as I used to. So I had I been in that situation and going down on a girl for a while then trying to suck a guy, I couldn't do it.

 

When I mentioned jealousy earlier I wasn't saying you were jealous of the guy getting with your wife, but more jealous of the situation - he was getting something you wanted - head.

[latin2012 22]

Yes I know. I really appreciated your advice. You gave a lot to think about. When I said "they were 69ing" I meant her and her husband. and they did go on for a long a time. I just have a question. Since we have opened the door to more than just physical touching (which I mean more than caressing each others wife) and into oral pleasure, is it too late to turn back. We really like the couple, I could see us as friends outside of swing (which he has often mentioned as meeting outside to do other stuff once in a while) but not as joined at the hips buddies. He has treated my wife with nothing but respect and I feel I have done the same (and he has said so). I kinda wish we would have stuck to our guns and just played with our own wives and limited touching to light caressing no finger fucking or oral. Is it too late to turn back? He has never pushed to go forward.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

It depends on them. All you can do is communicate with them that you don't feel you were ready to go as far as you did and you'd like to set new boundaries. If they are ok with it, great. If not, then move on.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

My wife was riding me and they were 69ing very hard, that was what had gotten me so excited in the first place. So it was not a preference thing.

 

I had to comment on this. I have no problems giving Mr. Sunbuckus head while we are playing but I am slower to do that with a male playmate for a few reasons. The number one being that I am unsure about my ability in that respect. Another reason is cleanliness. I have a think about sucking clean cock. All in all, sometimes I just don't feel comfortable giving head to someone else other than Mr. Sunbuckus.

[ALilOEverything 901]

Maybe she's just not as assertive. Some women aren't assertive and want someone else to make initiation. If you want a woman who takes more initiation then find a couple who's more compatible. Don't expect her husband to nudge her too, many women wouldn't be okay with that (me included). You can't expect the other couple to make sure everything is fair and balanced, it takes four way communication to make sure everyone is getting what they want out of the experience. Find out rules/boundaries/limitations before playtime. Knowing someone is "soft swap" or "full swap" isn't enough because definitions vary so much. I go as far as to ask "who's the more assertive one in bed" so I know further what to expect. Being comfortable having a complete conversation about sex/swinging/rules before is essential. If you're not comfortable talking about it you're going to be even less comfortable doing it.

 

So far you're just having learning experiences. Don't let them bother you, it's just part of defining what you're really looking for and knowing what you're okay with. Go into this knowing that reality and fantasy are two different things, even if it goes well it still won't be anything like your fantasies.

[cplnuswing 4,713]

Later he mentioned "sorry her jaw was hurting" (yeah sure).

 

I would second that I wouldn't be so quick to discount this. Some women, Mrs cplnuswing included, do enjoy giving head but given their jaw structure, it's just not something they can comfortably do for a long time, and the thicker the cock, the shorter the BJ is going to be. Aching pain and sex just aren't a good mix. I look at it like this - I'm taller than average, she is a little shorter than average, nothing we can do about that. There are some standing positions we both really like, but after a couple minutes of it, I just can't take making my joints do something they don't want to do. Instead of just trying to soldier on, we've both just reached the point that we realize that there are lots of different ways to get where you want to take each other, so take one road as long as its a comfy ride, but then change when you need to, its all good.

 

Even before we went to the play room, when we were in the common room ...her attitude was like Ok let's get this over with. My wife picked up on this right away.

 

This was probably a red flag that got missed, easy to do when things are starting to roll, so don't feel too bad. Talk about it and just try to avoid the mistake in the future. One thing we try to do after having had a few similar experiences that didn't go as well as hoped when we first starting out is always make sure to have one last check-in with each other before getting started, even if it is just exchanging looks and a nod. Things that seemed to be going great can take a sudden veer off the road when the clothes start to come off.

[latin2012 22]

Not that I feel like I am being judged or critized but I do feel we have gotten way off the subject. From me feeling left out even with basic showing some sort of emotion that you at least like my company as mentioned by caressing, kissing (again not the kind like when your in a heavy bang section but very light kisses) or even holding each other while u check out ur spouses having fun. To me looking like some spoiled kid that did not get a blow job??? That's not what I wanted out of this, my wife more than pleases me in that department. and this is why i know the husbands had a great time at her oral techniques. I was just expressing how I felt left out since the other female seemed like she was troubled by being there kinda like having to put up with me while her husband played with my wife. and yes I have since communicated with the husband, his response is oh well maybe next time. I guess basically I feel like I'm being tagged along. I guess it is time to drop our losses and move on.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I was just expressing how I felt left out since the other female seemed like she was troubled by being there kinda like having to put up with me while her husband played with my wife. and yes I have since communicated with the husband, his response is oh well maybe next time. I guess basically I feel like I'm being tagged along. I guess it is time to drop our losses and move on.

 

I would say that you should definitely move on from this couple, as it doesn't sound lie you are compatible with them. The advice you've received is based on the overall view of what you wrote about multiple experiences, mainly just trying to make sure you understand that in any situation there is likely more going kn than you perceive.

[Hammocksex 27]

All very good discussion and would just add that perhaps you need to look at your own thinking and behavior here. From your description, it sounded as if you were the most passive in the group. You of course did that because of your desire to play respectfully and so forth. However, I think there is an area between being too passive and breaking the rules. Perhaps you should explore that area in your own mind and find ways to better connect with the other lady. Women are as different as they are the same, which means they all have buttons to push but the bottons are often different. It might not be oral sex, no matter how much she enjoys it, that really engages or stimulates her and it is your job to still do that you know. You know your wife's buttons. They might be kissing a particular spot on the inside of her thigh or the small of her back, perhaps a place you touch or something you say. Who knows, there are so many! And you also know how much better your wife enjoys oral sex or how responsive she becomes to you after you push a few of those buttons. Same with your new sex partners too. Same but different! Perhaps you need to try to pay more attention to how you engage the other lady and not wait for her to engage you.

[latin2012 22]

From your description, it sounded as if you were the most passive in the group. You of course did that because of your desire to play respectfully and so forth.

 

BINGO you get the points. My wife and I were discussing it yesterday. She said the same thing. I am too meek and am afraid I will insult someone. Therefore I don't ask what is expected or tell them my expectations. She reinforced that if we are to continue this I need to speak up. That we both have to discuss with the other couple, how far we will go with the other couple and what we will not do. My wife is the total opposite, she is very friendly, open to anything, loving, I think this is why the other guys feel very comfortable with her. So far she has been very happy with what she has done and probably would have done more if it had been agreed upon from the beginning. Thanks for understand and the helpful advice.