Swinging vs Monogamy, are they not equal choices?

[AnonDude 15]

Bear with me - Nobody even really needs to read this - I just need to express my feelings...

 

Isn't swinging a lifestyle? A lifestyle much like Monogamy?

 

I hear a lot of posts about taking no for an answer from your spouse when this comes up but what about the shoe being on the other foot?

 

What if you said "no" to monogamy if it were asked for simply because it was not the kind of lifestyle you wanted to be part of.

 

I suppose my question is this: why is swinging something a married couple has to discuss and drop if either of them has a problem with it?

 

In this same couple one of them obviously has a problem with monogamy - why then isn't monogamy dropped as well? Why isn't monogamy subject to the same rules of unanimous acceptance as swinging?

 

I know! I know! Because one of them will resent the other later for being forced into something they didn't feel comfortable with or agree with completely but then isn't the reverse true as well? Wouldn't the swinger potentially feel resentment later for being forced to accept a lifestyle he/she didn't feel comfortable with or agree with?

 

Is it society's stigma since swinging is considered alternative and monogamy the default? If so - by who's definition is monogamy the default? And even if it IS the default isn't the swinging mindset predicated - at least in part - on the willingness to define your own set of social values and defaults?

 

I suppose there is every reason why the swinger should take no for answer, not push, etc.

 

I just feel very alone sometimes because swingers are always the ones hiding what they do. It seems we have to be ashamed of who and what we are unless we are in the presence of other swingers. God forbid this issue arises with your spouse and you have to suppress/hide it from him/her.

 

Oh well, no answers. Just the way it is I suppose. I wonder if this is the same crap gay people go through?

 

I wonder if we shouldn't form a swinger's rights movement.

 

Hmmm... I think I'll shut up now...

[DragonsLair 26]

I think both people in a marriage or relationship need to agree on swinging or monogamy as a lifestyle.

 

And yes, it's not fair for one party to have to give up something they enjoy because their partner doesn't like it. But it depends on which is more important to you - the lifestyle or your partner. If the lifestyle, which ever you choose, is more important than your partner, then you need to leave your current partner and find someone who will enjoy the lifestyle you choose. If your partner is more important, then you have to live within the constraints of the mutually chosen lifestyle.

 

Some of this is due to society constraints on behavior. But all in all, it comes down to what you want. The lifestyle or your current partner.

 

A question for you. Is your wife totally against swinging? You say she's reticent. Does that mean she might consider it somewhere down the road? If she's open-minded, you might want to have her read this board with you. It might help her with questions she has. Or it might make her decide swinging isn't the lifestyle for her. Either way, you both might learn some things about each other and open up lines of communication.

 

Best of luck with this. I don't know if I helped at all or not. But feel free to come back and talk about this some more. I'm sure others will have more insights and opinions for you.

[AnonDude 15]

Originally posted by DragonsLair

If your partner is more important, then you have to live within the constraints of the mutually chosen lifestyle.

 

I know and I am not saying this to be contentious - just a little introspective philosophy for discussion's sake but...

 

Couldn't the same words quoted above be said to the monogamous half of the relationship? Would we find it callous and cruel to say exactly what you said except reversed with a swinging lifestyle as the platform of defense?

 

I doubt there are any answers to this but I find it interesting. My wife and I have struggled with this very question for 15 months of marriage and it has been the biggest hurdle we've had to overcome. Hell, we still haven't got past it.

 

I was a swinger when we first met and although she has had various experiences in the past she was more interested in a monogamous marriage. I acquiesced to monogamy after much "cussin and discussin" but have struggled with resentment issues and redefining myself all along.

 

She feels guilty having asked me to give up something that meant a lot to me. We have tried things during our marriage to attempt to satisfy both of us but monogamy is pretty much exclusive by definition and leaves very little room for interpretation.

 

She agrees that monogamy doesn't warrant being a default any more than swinging does but has her views as I have mine. If we go her route she struggles with guilt, if we go mine I struggle with it.

 

Our relationship is perfect in every other regard. We absolutely love each other and get along perfectly. We admire and respect each other in a number of different ways and we find each other beautiful. We would rather be WITH each other in a sewer than apart on beds of roses. I believe it is this very love that makes this so difficult. If I didn't care so much for her I would be less inclined to care about the unfairness of this and feel guilt for going the swinging route. The same is true for her. When I decide to "deal" she feels guilty for making me "keep my promise" of a monogamous relationship.

 

What a pickle, huh?

[MassageCouple69 16]

You didn't mention it, but I assume that you are married, and I assume that one of the original assumptions and practices was monogamy. Thus, swinging is the alternative lifestyle in your relationship. So, your wife has every right to say no, and you should respect that.

 

If you had gotten married, and were swingers before, and then after as well, and THEN she decided that she did not want to do it anymore, I would agree that monogamy was the alternative for you, and that you might have some thinking to do depending on how you felt about your partner.

 

Personally though, being with my wife comes above all else and even though she is a tiger in bed and I love it, if she decided to never have sex again tomorrow, I would still stick with her.

 

I guess it comes down to how much you love your spouse.

 

I am not trying to judge you if you do not love her that much, only saying that you should recognize that your lack of feelings would be the end of the relationship, not your sexual differences.

 

Just my 2 cents

[DragonsLair 26]

Originally posted by AnonDude

I know and I am not saying this to be contentious - just a little introspective philosophy for discussion's sake but...

 

Couldn't the same words quoted above be said to the monogamous half of the relationship? Would we find it callous and cruel to say exactly what you said except reversed with a swinging lifestyle as the platform of defense?

 

 

 

Yes, it can and that was what I meant by the mutually chosen lifestyle. Whether it be swinging or monogamy. Both parties need to be in agreement.

 

It sounds like you both need to talk about this more. This board could be of great help for both of you. I'd encourage your wife to read it too.

 

All the best.

[Guest Seymore]

The answer to your question is that monogamy IS the norm in society. That means that it is reasonable to expect that when a person forms a relationship with someone that it will be a monogamous one.

 

Most relationships (including yours, I'm assuming) start out monogamous. To change that involves both people in the relationship to ACTIVELY participate in an activity (having sex with other people). It involves CHANGING the relationship from what it started out to be. If both parties aren't in favor of that change, then it's unfair to say that both ideas (monogamy and swinging) should be given equal weight.

[Weezie 16]

We are in sort of the same situation. Two and a half years ago my husband and I decided to give this a try. It was originally his idea and I had to think long and hard about it before anything really happened. I decided I really really liked the lifestyle. We had taken a short break due to some issues we had but are now back in the lifestyle full force again.

 

Ever since we have returned to the lifestyle he hasn't been as excited about it as I have. I am our social planner, emailer, and online chatter. He rarely gets on the computer. I feel guilty sometimes, but he does join in the fun once it all gets started. I want to continue to explore but I will only do so with him there. I love him so much I could never leave him out.

[Tarnished Halo 16]

Personally although we are not swinging yet, I have some very serious issues to deal with. He is the more adventurous of the two of us. I was angry, hurt, and very very confused when he suggested swinging. It was kind of like...

 

I love you so much, I am going to fuck this other woman just to prove it to you.

 

Yeah right, in divorce court you will.

 

However...I did get to thinking. I have never seen people having sex. It seems like such a PRIVATE thing, such an intimate thing, and to be doing this with someone that you love, but to be looking at them ON THE NEXT BED, with someone that you barely know? I thought he had gone insane.

 

Then....I continued to think, that perhaps I wasn't all that he needed in the world. It sounds offensive to say that he wanted and needed new pussy, when he wanted to be WITH ME?

Talk about some angry reactions, but if I understand it correctly, this CAN bring about some very close and personal interpersonal reactions about someone that you love and care about. That is what is important to me.

 

I am not real crazy about the process of being close to him over another woman's body, but I think that it just might be possible. I don't know how I will react to seeing him being sexual, another woman bringing him pleasure without me freaking out, but I am going to try to make a friend of this woman. I am going to try to make sure that she has as much as I do to lose, and that she is going to entrust her husband, someone she loves, to ME! I am going to be very careful to earn her trust. To know that I AM NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING that is going to damage her relationship with her husband, and to hope that she has the same considerations as I do.

 

Yes...It's difficult to imagine that he wants someone other than me (at least once in a while), and that he still loves and wants to stay with me, but I can't pretend to understand other than the variety that he needs or wants can't be done so in a very safe and protected environment, and hopefully, one that I can share in! I am not saying that this is going to be easy, I don't think that it should or could be, regardless of what or how other people manage their relationships, but for ME, the important thing is to provide to the extent that I am able, an interaction with another human being, (unless she is a real pig, or has absolutely no moral standards, then she would most likely NEVER GET INTO MY BED), knowing that he loves me, and we can do this in a way that can lead to our relationship being enhanced, not undermined because she simply is willing to a sexual interlude, or because he wants to have someone other than me.

 

I hope this helps. It has helped me kind of sort things out, except when he is "in lust" with someone. I am still working on not feeling inadequate, but I trust that because I love him, I will (and so will he) make the right decisions for us.

[Vjklander 138]

Another way to look at it is this: In a traditional monogamous relationship, does he love you just so he can get pussy on a regular basis? Has that question ever crossed your mind? If you share pleasures with others, and he still wants you, then you can be sure he loves you, he's not just playing along for the sex. Ah yes, the 'he still wants you' part. I think this provides the greatest trepidation for those considering sharing pleasures. How much do you really trust this guy. How sure are you of yourself?

 

Seymore: According to polls, monogamy is NOT the norm in society.

 

AnonDude: If you talk openly with your wife about all this, then the obvious solution is for you to swing and her not. We have friends in this situation. Their sex life is fine, but he likes to share pleasures with others and she does not. So he swings and she doesn't.

[DragonsLair 26]

Originally posted by Vjklander

 

AnonDude: If you talk openly with your wife about all this, then the obvious solution is for you to swing and her not. We have friends in this situation. Their sex life is fine, but he likes to share pleasures with others and she does not. So he swings and she doesn't.

 

But Jamie,

 

Isn't he going to be looked at as a cheating male? Even if he has his wife's permission, I wonder how many couples would believe him.

[LadyCleo 16]

Originally posted by AnonDude

Isn't swinging a lifestyle? A lifestyle much like Monogamy?

 

I hear a lot of posts about taking no for an answer from your spouse when this comes up but what about the shoe being on the other foot?

 

I suppose my question is this: why is swinging something a married couple has to discuss and drop if either of them has a problem with it?

 

In this same couple one of them obviously has a problem with monogamy - why then isn't monogamy dropped as well? Why isn't monogamy subject to the same rules of unanimous acceptance as swinging?

 

The difference is, in this society, monogamy is the norm. If you wanted to have multiple partners (in the "normal" world), why bother to get married? Even the standard marriage vows state, "Forsaking all others..."

 

My feeling is, if you wanted to have a spouse that was into the lifestyle as much as you, then you should have married someone that was in it already rather than making your wife feel guilty for not wanting to join you in the lifestyle. By marrying her, you decided that you would put her needs above your own unless it was something that the 2 of you agreed upon prior to the marriage.

 

Intellectually, I understand what you are saying. And in a utopian society, we would be free to do whatever we care to do without worries about what others might think. But that is not the society that we live in.

 

And from your posts, I can't see how you are really feeling guilty. Try to put yourself into your wife's shoes. She doesn't want it. But it sounds like you are the type of guy to wear her down to do what you want. And do you really want a reluctant participant?

 

I would rather spend the rest of my life (I'm 29) sexless but in love with my husband, than having the most mind blowing sex known to man without him.

 

Good luck to you both.

[Vjklander 138]

Originally posted by DragonsLair

But Jamie,

 

Isn't he going to be looked at as a cheating male? Even if he has his wife's permission, I wonder how many couples would believe him.

 

We do, Mrs Vjk might spend the day shopping with the wife and we'll spend the evening with the hubby. Another night we might just all spend the evening playing cards or bowling, nothing sexual at all.

[EternallySingle 32]

...Even if it is never. Swinging is a lifestyle that requires a tremendous amount of trust in both your partner and the people you swing with. Some people just can't bring themselves to trust another person that much, so they don't swing at all. Some can only bring themselves to trust certain people, or certain groups of people.

 

Trust, not love or respect, is the key to swinging, in my opinion. Trust that you won't be betrayed by your partner. Trust that you won't be exposed to people who would use knowledge of what you do against you. Trust that, at the end of the night, your partner is who you will be with, and not because you have no other choice but because you want to. And if a single person is involved, trust that that person will not try to replace one of the people.

 

That kind of trust isn't natural for us living in Western society, because we have been taught that there is only room in one's heart for one lover, and that we should be content with the limits that lover places on our sexual activities. For some, breaking free of that conditioning is next to impossible. For others, it just isn't desirable. You have to build her trust in you as a husband before you can go further. 15 months is not long enough to build that kind of trust in someone. If both of you had been swinging, or even if neither of you ever heard about it before, you would be coming into this from a similar point of view and there would be fewer doubts.

 

But look at it from her point of view. You are, in effect, asking her to have sex with you and one of your old girlfriends, and this only months after you have been married. I am not a woman, I've never been married, but I've been in this situation and my first thought was "What, I'm not enough for you? You got to bring in one of your old sex partners to show me what I'm doing wrong? No, not just a man, but his wife too? WHAT! You were sleeping with his wife before they got married?"

 

If you give it time and no pressure, she will eventually become curious. If you don't back off a little, she's just going to be resentful.

[dentwebb 15]

I just read your ad, and understand what you are saying in sprit for sure with no rules about what is acceptable from a swingers point of view. I have no idea as to whether you are the male/female of the two of you, nor does it matter. We as human beings like to do what we want to, always have and always will. Swinging isn't for everyone for sure and I am sure it is difficult for couples that one has reservations about it on one side or the other.

 

Either of you can choose to change the rules, that is free will. But there may be drawbacks to decisions, just part of it, sorry.

 

The ACLU will be more than happy to take up your cause for "Swingers Rights" just like the Gays.

 

I do believe we all have the free will to do whatever we want to, that just doesn't transfer into no backlash.

 

I for sure would leave out the following thought! God forbid this issue arises with your spouse and you have to suppress/hide it from him/her. Even the ACLU won't defend your rights as a swinger on that topic.

 

I am so very glad I am single again, I don't have such complexities.

[AnonDude 15]

The intention of this post was not to decide the age old question of one spouse wants to swing the other doesn't. I did touch on that but the "musings" in my post were more on the equality given to each lifestyle choice and the effects of societal norms but...

 

...since I did mention the situation between my wife and I all is fair game I suppose. That being the case there is another piece to the story:

 

I (the male half) have no interest in other women or men. I can assure all of you that I have no interest in getting involved in this lifestyle with my wife for the sole reason of "getting more pussy".

 

I can assure all of you about that because I would (and effectively have) turned down that very scenario. If she wants another woman it is for her - I have no interest in touching anyone but my wife.

 

My fascination comes from watching my wife in the throws of passion or riding a sexual wave of abandonment. I nearly fall apart from the beauty of it. I suppose that makes me weird, so be it.

 

I feel there is an experience, a beautiful one, available in that scenario that is, honestly, tainted by being involved in the machinations of sex yourself.

 

I am sure there is a beauty to the "full swap" scenario or the FFM scenario as well and I would imagine everyone has their preferences. Mine is quite simply to see my wife pleased and/or excited - that is the ONLY swinging pleasure that interests me.

[Elusive BiFem 70]

Originally posted by AnonDude

I suppose my question is this: why is swinging something a married couple has to discuss and drop if either of them has a problem with it?

 

AnonDude,

You really didn't ask for a response - just "musing." But I noticed in another thread, you mentioned your wife was positive for genital HSV-1. The thought crossed my mind that maybe some of her reticence might stem from that. I know it would for me. Tell? Subject myself to rejection? Don't tell? Risk exposing others and feeling guilty?

 

Just musing...

[AnonDude 15]

You are correct about it being a factor. We have somewhat "resolved" the issue because it is my responsibility to ascertain reception/rejection beforehand. Essentially abstracting for her, through myself, the ramifications of a negative reaction.

 

...but since we are "just musing" - I would say you are correct - it is a concern.

[LadyCleo 16]

Originally posted by EternallySingle

Trust, not love or respect, is the key to swinging, in my opinion. Trust that you won't be betrayed by your partner. Trust that you won't be exposed to people who would use knowledge of what you do against you. Trust that, at the end of the night, your partner is who you will be with, and not because you have no other choice but because you want to. And if a single person is involved, trust that that person will not try to replace one of the people.

I totally agree with you with one addition: Trust that you will be strong enough to pull yourself back up should your partner become untrustworthy.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I suppose my question is this: why is swinging something a married couple has to discuss and drop if either of them has a problem with it?

 

In this same couple one of them obviously has a problem with monogamy - why then isn't monogamy dropped as well? Why isn't monogamy subject to the same rules of unanimous acceptance as swinging?

 

The easy answer here has been posted - that it basically comes down to what was agreed upon at the start of the marriage. If a couple gets married with the idea that swinging will be a part of their lives and then one of them changes the rules, why should that be any different than a situation where a couple gets married with the agreement that monogamy will be the way then one of them decides later that they want to swing?

[cracker60479 16]

I think ones conception of what "sex" is holds the answer. To one, sex is an antonym for "making love". To another "sex" is something grown-ups do as play ad libitum for fun. "Making love" is a deep emotional caring for one another which culminates in the same sexual act but with rules, written by the heart and sole that makes it love.

 

When I grew up every guy wanted to marry a virgin, it was a macho, possessive idea, we couldn't stand the thought of her having given something of herself away, as if she would be incomplete. We had to get everything. It was jealousy.

 

During my first marriage, my sister-in-law wanted to get pregnant but her husband's sperm count was low. I developed this fantasy that they would ask me to impregnate her. Wife and I would go to their house and her sister and I would go in the bedroom and have sex for hours while my wife & brother-in-law would just set and watch tv. I assumed both would be ok with that since it was sex for a cause, just sex, not love making and there was no need for jealousy. Adding some reality to the fantasy it came to mind if I was fucking his wife while they heard the bed squeaking, it was logical that they would end up in the other bedroom fucking too. Since I didn't want that to happen out of jealous possession, I tried to alter the fantasy scenario for their activity. But I realizes if she wouldn't be jealous of me fucking her sister because it was just sex, then I had no right to be jealous of her doing exactly the same thing I was doing at the same time. It was a moment in my life I was able to separate love from sex.

 

Later I had a dream, wife was in the shower and the insurance man, Bob, came to the door and I invited him in for a beer. I heard the shower shut off and as I came out of the kitchen with two beers in hand, my wife came walking down the hall into the living room totally naked, not seeing Bob, she walked up to me and reached for the second beer saying thanks. I smiled and said it's not for you it's for Bob, who had stepped up beside her. She was so surprised she just said hello forgetting she was naked for about 3 seconds, then tried in vain to cover herself with her hands while we laughed at her failed attempt. Then she said, I guess there is no use covering up now, you have already seen everything I have and jumped up on the bar stool naked. I had a surge of pride in her sexy move as she had always been very inhibited and I was thrilled she would do such a bold thing. Then the doorbell rang and it was her parents. I pushed them both away saying go hide, I will get rid of them. I let them in when I heard the bedroom door close. Turning, I saw Bob was gone and knew he was in the bedroom with my naked wife. I told the in-laws she wasn't home, then I heard the bed squeak and then a second time.

 

I hurriedly moved to the front door to let my in-laws out and began to hear squeak, squeak, squeak and knew he was fucking my wife. I was so upset, surprising even myself, because I wasn't mad or jealous, she had been a virgin when we got married and I really, really had wanted to see her facial expression when he penetrated her and she felt another man's dick sliding into her pussy. It was then that I first became turned on about watching my wife enjoying another man.

 

I know this is a long thread, but it is how I separated sex from love and realized that sex with others could be exciting and without jealousy. Perhaps the clue to alleviating a partners apprehension is to successfully separate making love from sex. As married couples we actually "make love" less seldom than we have sex, even though we love the sex and our wives.