'Because you love them enough to be open to them having these experiences'

[shrevecouple 252]

I see this over and over again. Do you think this is a fair statement? It is said many times on here that there is no judgement for those who can't handle swinging but these statements tend to suggest otherwise. The notion that 'you love them enough' or 'your love is so great to allow' says to me that maybe what is said to those who can't get a grip on swinging and what is really thought may be two different things?

[TheRedHalf 81]

The notion that 'you love them enough' or 'your love is so great to allow' says to me that maybe what is said to those who can't get a grip on swinging and what is really thought may be two different things.

 

 

People can have different beliefs or opinions and not judge one another for those. I think people sometimes get them confused. Having an opinion on something and judging some else for their's are a lot different.

 

Some guys may like to suck cock but I don't. I don't judge them for that and it doesn't change the way I view them as long as they don't expect me to do it. The statement above "'your love is so great to allow'". I don't think it should be interpreted that you love them more than someone who isn't comfortable doing it loves them. Maybe their love is different, not greater or less but different.

[slevin 1,374]

I see this over and over again. Do you think this is a fair statement? It is said many times on here that there is no judgement for those who can't handle swinging but these statements tend to suggest otherwise. The notion that 'you love them enough' or 'your love is so great to allow' says to me that maybe what is said to those who can't get a grip on swinging and what is really thought may be two different things.

 

I think there are some people who believe what you're pointing out. There have been a few people post on here who seem to have the opinion that if you really loved your spouse you'd let them fuck other people. I think that absolutely conflicts with "swinging isn't for everyone". However, I think the people who truly think that their love is stronger don't really think swinging isn't for everyone.

 

Seems that most people get that swinging isn't for everyone and don't think that makes them better or their love stronger.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

I see this over and over again. Do you think this is a fair statement?

 

I read something different into that statement than you do.

 

"We like to fuck different people" sounds crass to most ears, and some folks don't like to admit that is what they are in it for at first.

So, some make their choices more palatable by saying "We love each other enough to do this for one another" instead of the first comment.

[lustylearning 705]

"there is no judgement for those who can't handle swinging but these statements tend to suggest otherwise"

 

Maybe it would be less offensive if one said, "I trust my partner enough to allow this" or "I'm not threatened by this," but I'm thinking that if you're offended by seeing love put into the decision, then "trust" and "threat" would also not sit right with you.

 

The bottom line is there is a difference people who choose to swing and people who don't, and even between people who choose to swing solo and people who don't, because they see things from a different point of view, from within their own life and situation, and no matter how either side phrases the reason, the other side will try to compare.

 

Is it "fair"? Well, yeah. One's point of view is one's own. It doesn't have to be anyone else's.

[km34 672]

Very early in our relationship, my husband and I agreed that using something like "If you loved me, you would...." It's unfair to say that because someone won't do, buy, say, or agree to one particular thing then he/she doesn't love you.

 

This reeks of that to me. "I love my husband enough, I'm going to have a threesome for him to help fulfill his fantasy." It always reminds me of couples who use swinging as leverage - I let you do/have this, so you should let me do/have that - and I avoid that kind of situation like the plague. It breeds resentment.

 

I could definitely see it being an argument to try to convince someone to swing, as well. I don't know that it would be used as a judgement for ALL non-swingers, but I can just picture the couple in which the man really wants to fuck his wife's friend (and therefore let his wife fuck the other woman's husband), so he tries to convince them that if they REALLY loved each other, they could totally let this happen. Accurate? Maybe, maybe not, but it wouldn't surprise me from SOME of the people making those claims.

 

Others are probably just not sure how to explain WHY they are comfortable with swinging, and an inordinate amount of love sounds about right. Instead of saying trust, comfort in the stability of the relationship, etc, extra love sounds a bit nicer.

[slevin 1,374]

Maybe it would be less offensive if one said, "I trust my partner enough to allow this" or "I'm not threatened by this," but I'm thinking that if you're offended by seeing love put into the decision, then "trust" and "threat" would also not sit right with you.

 

I think that it all comes down to phrasing and the intent behind the words. There is a difference between "we do this because we love each other so much" and "if you loved your partner enough you would...". There are definitely people who use the latter phrasing to mean they think their love is better because they do this. There are others that don't mean that and I think their phrasing reflects that.

[cupl4fun 361]

Another side of this though is just how hard it is to explain the swing lifestyle. I mean how do you explain such a complex thing? I think we tend to over simplify at times and say things like, "We love each other enough to....". In saying that particular phrase it can definitely seem like a judgmental thing, but I am not sure that is really the intention. I know I have heard other people say a very similar thing from the vanilla side of things, "I love him/her so much that I cannot stand the thought of them with someone else." When I have heard that statement, I did not think they were necessarily dissing people who swing, but just commenting on what their love is like.

 

Now are there people on both sides of the coin who are smug and think they are better and their ways are better? Definitely. So, when those smug bastards (lol) make such a statement they definitely mean, "I love better and more openly than you" (or vice versa as the case may be). Other people, though just may be trying to explain why they do (or don't do) what they do. Honestly, one of the reasons we swing IS because we love each other enough that we want to help each other fulfill fantasies, but that does not mean I feel like I love my wife more than my vanilla friends love their wives, just differently.

 

Maybe the word "enough" is the problem. It is a quantitative word, and therefore lends itself to mathematical (greater than, less than) comparisons. Even as I wrote that particular word it (in my earlier statement) it didn't feel quite right. It wouldn't hurt (even if our intentions are pure) for everybody to be a little more careful when we make certain statements. In order for our statements about the lifestyle to not lead to "greater than" or "less than" conclusions. If my wife and I say, "Our love for each other allows us to sleep with others." While our non-swinging friends might say, "Our love for each other keeps us from sleeping with others."

 

Maybe both are equally true. Each love is not greater, or less; just different. To quote, Shakespeare, "Love is a many splendored thing."

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

Maybe the word "enough" is the problem. It is a quantitative word, and therefore lends itself to mathematical (greater than, less than) comparisons. Even as I wrote that particular word it (in my earlier statement) it didn't feel quite right. It wouldn't hurt (even if our intentions are pure) for everybody to be a little more careful when we make certain statements. In order for our statements about the lifestyle to not lead to "greater than" or "less than" conclusions. If my wife and I say, "Our love for each other allows us to sleep with others." While our non-swinging friends might say, "Our love for each other keeps us from sleeping with others." Maybe both are equally true. Each love is not greater, or less; just different. To quote, Shakespeare, "Love is a many splendored thing."

 

That problem with the word "enough" was the first thing I thought of when I read the header to this thread. I probably don't love my partner more than a vanilla friend of ours loves her husband, but the shape of how I love him is certainly different. Mine celebrates the idea of sexual exploration, hers doesn't. One way isn't better than the other, although only one is going to fit me without pinching.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

First, I do not like the term "allow". I don't "allow" my wife to do anything, she is her own person and she does as she wishes and vice versa. We do discuss, and come to agreement, on major things, like swinging. We both love each other enough to not participate in anything in which the other has a problem.

 

I do trust my wife's love for me, and I trust my love for her, so much so that I am comfortable with swinging. I also believe that part of love IS trust. It is not a stretch to imagine someone using the term "love enough" to mean exactly what I just said. Is what I said qualifying or quantifying love? Yes, it is.

 

When we first fell in love and married, that trust was not as strong as it is now, and it was not so for many years. Our love and trust grew stronger over many years, and over many good times and bad. Our love matured over time, it did not just occur when we said "I do." Maturity, in general or in terms of love, takes time to develop and we all develop at differing pace, if we ever fully mature at all. For many years we did not love each other enough to have that complete trust in each other and ourselves to be swingers. Now we do.

 

Swinging is not right for everyone for myriad reasons; moral or ethical issues, social pressure, fear of disease, or of being outed, and many more. There are also people that swinging is not right for because of jealousy and fear that one or both could fall out of love with the other or fall in love with someone else. So, if swinging is not right for someone because of jealousy or fear of love loss, their love has not matured enough to allow swinging to be part of their life. It does not however, mean they love each other any less, just that their love has not matured to the point of complete trust.

 

In short, I do not have a problem with that phrase because it does not automatically mean they being critical of non swingers. It certainly could be the case that the person using the phrase IS using it in a derogatory manner, but it is not a given.

 

On the other hand, using the phrase, "IF you loved me enough you would......", or similar phrases, says to me that the person that is using it is attempting to manipulate, in which case they certainly do not love their spouse enough.

[shrevecouple 252]

So, if swinging is not right for someone because of jealousy or fear of love loss, their love has not matured enough to allow swinging to be part of their life. It does not however, mean they love each other any less, just that their love has not matured to the point of complete trust.

 

 

I completely disagree with this. I don't think that not being able to swing because of those fears is a sign of love not matured enough. That plays into the notion that people who are ok with swinging have a better relationship. I think that's BS. I think there are some folks who just are not ok with it, Period. It doesn't mean they don't have complete trust in their spouse.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

So, if swinging is not right for someone because of jealousy or fear of love loss, their love has not matured enough to allow swinging to be part of their life. It does not however, mean they love each other any less, just that their love has not matured to the point of complete trust.

 

 

I completely disagree with this. I don't think that not being able to swing because of those fears is a sign of love not matured enough. That plays into the notion that people who are ok with swinging have a better relationship. I think that's BS. I think there are some folks who just are not ok with it, Period. It doesn't mean they don't have complete trust in their spouse.

 

I also think that notion of matured vs. not matured is nonsense. The general tenor of the thought is a less-than love as compared to the more-than love of swingers, and that way of ranking love and relationships is precisely what the thread starter was objecting to.

 

I suspect that none of us can really point to precisely why we either don't have issues with seeing our partners with others or get enough out of it that we overcome them. That doesn't make us better or more mature in our love. It's just that the shape of how we love is different.

[shrevecouple 252]

IMO...I think it boils down to either you can handle it or you can't. I don't think it has anything to do with "how much" you love or "how mature" it is. Sure some say they couldn't have done it early in their relationship because they would have been too jealous etc. and now that they have been married say 20 years they can handle it. Maybe you've just reached a level of comfort. The thought is, they have stuck with me this long why would they leave me now? Also I believe you just teach yourself to recognize more affection from the other aspects of your marriage. (for example: good provider, good to our children, honesty, the one that holds my hair when I puke, the one I cry with and turn to when grieving, etc...)

 

Also this may be a hot button. When you add swinging to your life and your differentiating "making love" versus fucking or just sex. Physically it's really the same thing. Are we calling sex with our spouses making love because it's the right thing to do and it is our way of assigning it that specialness that we need to make each other feel better? I am not saying that love has been completely removed from the bedroom but maybe more love put in other areas of the relationship that were maybe overlooked before so that in your mind you know what makes you and spouses play partner different. Because if you are banking on the sex, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

IMO...I think it boils down to either you can handle it or you can't.

 

I agree with this. "Love" can't be quantified. There are too many variables in each relationship to say "This is the reason we can swing".

 

If I spent time worrying about things that other couples can do that we can't, then that would be a lot of wasted time. If a couple can do more "things" than we can, it's no skin off my nose. If they feel superior for being able to do those things, once again, it's nothing for me to be concerned about. It has nothing to do with what or who we as a couple are, and therefore deserves no thought or fretting on my part.

 

All we as a couple can do is to continue growing together and making our relationship stronger. The day we think "it can absolutely get no better than this", is the day our relationship starts to die. We're going to see what we can do to keep that from happening over the next few years.

[km34 672]

Also this may be a hot button. When you add swinging to your life and your differentiating "making love" versus fucking or just sex. Physically it's really the same thing. Are we calling sex with our spouses making love because it's the right thing to do and it is our way of assigning it that specialness that we need to make each other feel better? I am not saying that love has been completely removed from the bedroom but maybe more love put in other areas of the relationship that were maybe overlooked before so that in your mind you know what makes you and spouses play partner different. Because if you are banking on the sex, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

To me, there is a definite difference between fucking and making love. I can do either with my husband, but with a random dude I met a party I'm just going to fuck. I guess the difference in my life is the intimacy involved (I don't tenderly kiss while fucking - I do while making love) and the reason for doing it (I make love to connect with a person I care about whether I orgasm or not is irrelevant, I enjoy that connection with a person I care about- I fuck to get physical pleasure and to cum). The biological processes involved may be the same thing, but the psychological aspect is not.

[lustylearning 705]

I agree with this. "Love" can't be quantified. There are too many variables in each relationship to say "This is the reason we can swing".

 

If I spent time worrying about things that other couples can do that we can't, then that would be a lot of wasted time. If a couple can do more "things" than we can, it's no skin off my nose. If they feel superior for being able to do those things, once again, it's nothing for me to be concerned about. It has nothing to do with what or who we as a couple are, and therefore deserves no thought or fretting on my part.

 

This... this sums it up. It doesn't matter why other people can do what they do. What matters is what you do and why you do it.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

I completely disagree with this. I don't think that not being able to swing because of those fears is a sign of love not matured enough. That plays into the notion that people who are ok with swinging have a better relationship. I think that's BS. I think there are some folks who just are not ok with it, Period. It doesn't mean they don't have complete trust in their spouse.

 

I addressed many reasons that swinging may not be right for some, none of which had anything to do with love or maturity. Any of those reasons, as well jealousy, is a perfectly valid reason that someone is not ready for swinging. And "just not being ok with it" probably has very little to do with jealousy or love or maturity.

 

But, jealousy is a characteristic of emotional immaturity, and I far from alone in that opinion. That holds true if there is a valid reason for jealousy, like one party cheating to lying, which absolutely is a sign of immaturity on the cheater part.

 

I also believe jealousy is rooted in fear and insecurity. Fear of loosing your spouse or being somehow less in their mind. I also said that an individual being concerned that they might fall in love with someone else, or out of love with their spouse as an immaturity as well. If anyone is not secure in their love or their spouses love then I firmly believe that love has not matured. And they are certainly not ready for swinging.

 

So lets flip the scenario, if a couple comes to this forum and states they want to swing, but they continually show signs of jealousy, emotional immaturity or a love that is not solid, the vast majority of this board tells the to forget about swinging and work on improving (i.e. maturing) their relationship.

I do not think any less of them for not wanting to swing or not being ready to swing, nor, as I sated, think they love each other any less or they swingers love each other any more.

 

I do not believe anyone is perfect, nor is anyone's love, there is always room for improvement and maturing. My wife and I have certainly matured in our love, and other ways, since we were first married, and we continue that process.

 

Maybe you've just reached a level of comfort. The thought is, they have stuck with me this long why would they leave me now?

 

I am not sure if this was aimed at me or a general statement, but hardly. There is too much we both want out of life to just hang on because we have been together so long. Not to mention, I imagine swinging would be far less enjoyable if that were the case. I can't imagine my spouses pleasure would mean much to me if the only reason we were together is based on "time in service."

 

When you add swinging to your life and your differentiating "making love" versus fucking or just sex. Physically it's really the same thing. Are we calling sex with our spouses making love because it's the right thing to do and it is our way of assigning it that specialness that we need to make each other feel better? I am not saying that love has been completely removed from the bedroom but maybe more love put in other areas of the relationship that were maybe overlooked before so that in your mind you know what makes you and spouses play partner different. Because if you are banking on the sex, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

Once again we disagree. I absolutely see, hear and feel a difference between making love and fucking. We certainly are not calling sex between us making love because we are trying to make each other feel better or that we are trying to make sex between us special. In fact, it already is special and that is what differentiates making love from other sex. I also do not believe love is a zero sum game where if you put more love in one area that it takes it from somewhere else.

 

I agree with two4youinswva, and spend little time thinking the about reasons someone swings (or not), beyond answering questions on this forum, concern when friends drop out of the lifestyle or on occasion wishing a particular couple we may have met where swingers. But you asked a question and I have given my opinion.

[shrevecouple 252]

I also believe jealousy is rooted in fear and insecurity. Fear of loosing your spouse or being somehow less in their mind. I also said that an individual being concerned that they might fall in love with someone else, or out of love with their spouse as an immaturity as well. If anyone is not secure in their love or their spouses love then I firmly believe that love has not matured. And they are certainly not ready for swinging.

 

 

I believe when you are speaking of jealousy in general this may be true. (like your at a bar and your spouse stops and chats with someone of the opposite sex and your automatically off the handle and jealous (silly)) But when you apply it to the aspect of your spouse having sex with someone else I disagree. Like I said, I think you can either handle it or you can't. I don't think that if seeing your spouse having sex with someone else makes you jealous and you have a hard time getting past it that it means your love for that person hasn't matured enough or that really there is something there to be worked on. It probably just simply means you aren't made for swinging.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

I believe when you are speaking of jealousy in general this may be true. (like your at a bar and your spouse stops and chats with someone of the opposite sex and your automatically off the handle and jealous (silly)) But when you apply it to the aspect of your spouse having sex with someone else I disagree. Like I said, I think you can either handle it or you can't. I don't think that if seeing your spouse having sex with someone else makes you jealous and you have a hard time getting past it that it means your love for that person hasn't matured enough or that really there is something there to be worked on. It probably just simply means you aren't made for swinging.

 

If one decides they just don't like seeing that, it turns them off, that it make sex seem less special with their spouse, or similar such reactions, I would agree. All valid reasons that may have nothing to do with jealousy. But if it is jealousy I don't agree. As you said, jealousy is silly.

 

One of the wonderful thing about this forum is that we can disagree.

[shrevecouple 252]

If one decides they just don't like seeing that, it turns them off, that it make sex seem less special with their spouse, or similar such reactions, I would agree. All valid reasons that may have nothing to do with jealousy. But if it is jealousy I don't agree. As you said, jealousy is silly.

 

One of the wonderful thing about this forum is that we can disagree.

 

 

Yes so true and I still disagree. LOL I don't think it's so silly to be jealous of seeing your spouse having sex with someone else. You can have a great marriage with no jealousy and introduce that and it makes a difference. This isn't dancing, innocent flirting, just hanging out, sharing dirty jokes or just sharing dirty stories with others it's a level of intimacy that generally isn't shared with someone else. For those who can do it and never feel that twinge more power to them I say but it doesn't make their love more mature, that they have somehow reached a higher level of intimacy or that they are more secure.

 

Agreeing to disagree.

[Chicup 41]

I read something different into that statement than you do.

 

"We like to fuck different people" sounds crass to most ears, and some folks don't like to admit that is what they are in it for at first.

So, some make their choices more palatable by saying "We love each other enough to do this for one another" instead of the first comment.

 

I think there is a lot of truth in the above.

 

This is one of those issues where people tend to over complicate in my opinion.

 

There are many reasons for being a swinger I'm sure but for us it was, I wanted to fuck other people, she wanted to fuck other people and we were secure enough to do it together. It made us both happy, it made us closer, and only later did I get turned on by her being with other people.

 

So while its safe to say "I loved her enough" for it, which I did, my motivations, and hers were selfish as well. We both wanted to fuck other people. It was a turn on.

 

So basically you can say "Because you love them enough to be open to them having these experiences, plus you want to fuck other people too."

 

Now lets say my wife wanted me to blow another guy. Lets say its a REAL turn on and fantasy for her. I love her very much. I am NOT blowing another guy. I love her plenty but my openness is going to be closed here because its a major turn off for me. Does this mean my love isn't mature enough? No it means the thought of sex with a male is unappealing to me and the wife will have to do without it (and for the record its a major turn off for her so I'm safe )

 

No perhaps some people have a submissive love. They would do ANYTHING to make the other person happy, even if it made them very uncomfortable. I'm sure thats out there and good for them, but neither my wife or I are submissives.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

There are many reasons for being a swinger I'm sure but for us it was, I wanted to fuck other people, she wanted to fuck other people and we were secure enough to do it together. It made us both happy, it made us closer, and only later did I get turned on by her being with other people.

 

So while its safe to say "I loved her enough" for it, which I did, my motivations, and hers were selfish as well. We both wanted to fuck other people. It was a turn on.

 

I think you fleshed it out a lot better than I did. Nice follow up, I'll take the assist.

[shrevecouple 252]

There are many reasons for being a swinger I'm sure but for us it was, I wanted to fuck other people, she wanted to fuck other people and we were secure enough to do it together. It made us both happy, it made us closer, and only later did I get turned on by her being with other people.

 

This is the nuts and bolts of it to me as well. Like mentioned earlier, it sounds crass but for a couple who enjoy doing it, this is what it boils down to. Some want it bad enough, that even if they find jealousy in their spouse participating as well, they will find a way to overcome.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I see this over and over again. Do you think this is a fair statement? It is said many times on here that there is no judgement for those who can't handle swinging but these statements tend to suggest otherwise. The notion that 'you love them enough' or 'your love is so great to allow' says to me that maybe what is said to those who can't get a grip on swinging and what is really thought may be two different things.

 

More often (at least on here) I see it being said that if you really love your partner and they aren't open to the experiences you fantasize about that you need to make a choice of what is more important - your fantasies? Or your relationship?

 

You love someone enough to be open to anything they bring to you, to listen and to communicate how you feel openly and honestly. That doesn't mean that you have to engage in every idea or activity that you bring to you. It just means that you are open to listening to their desires and feelings.

 

At the same time, all should be fair. Just as he needs to be open to listening to your desires and considering them, weighing them, deciding whether or not it's something he can follow through with, you have to do the same for him.

 

The statement should be "you love them enough to communicate about anything, anytime, anywhere".

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

There are also people that swinging is not right for because of jealousy and fear that one or both could fall out of love with the other or fall in love with someone else. So, if swinging is not right for someone because of jealousy or fear of love loss, their love has not matured enough to allow swinging to be part of their life. It does not however, mean they love each other any less, just that their love has not matured to the point of complete trust.

 

I completely disagree with this. I don't think that not being able to swing because of those fears is a sign of love not matured enough. That plays into the notion that people who are ok with swinging have a better relationship. I think that's BS. I think there are some folks who just are not ok with it, Period. It doesn't mean they don't have complete trust in their spouse.

 

I suspect that none of us can really point to precisely why we either don't have issues with seeing our partners with others or get enough out of it that we overcome them. That doesn't make us better or more mature in our love. It's just that the shape of how we love is different.

 

Jealousy typically does not exist in a vacuum. It's rare that someone who has NO jealous tendencies at all suddenly develops them when the idea of swinging is introduced into the mix. And the same in the other direction. If someone is jealous or carries around a worry that they will lose their partners love (for any reason) swinging isn't right for them. That's what I read in the original statement above. IMO, love isn't true (or mature) if jealousy exists, or if there is a lack of trust of any kind (including worry that they may leave you). Love is TRUST. You can't have jealousy where there is full trust. Those two things don't go together, they are opposites.

 

IMO...I think it boils down to either you can handle it or you can't. I don't think it has anything to do with "how much" you love or "how mature" it is. Sure some say they couldn't have done it early in their relationship because they would have been too jealous etc. and now that they have been married say 20 years they can handle it. Maybe you've just reached a level of comfort. The thought is, they have stuck with me this long why would they leave me now? Also I believe you just teach yourself to recognize more affection from the other aspects of your marriage. (for example: good provider, good to our children, honesty, the one that holds my hair when I puke, the one I cry with and turn to when grieving, etc...)

 

Anyone who takes that attitude of "well they've stuck with me this long..." is only fooling themselves. They need to look around and see how many couples split up after they've been together for 20 years. It happens. People leave all the time. Heck, more often it is after about 20 years when the kids are finally grown and no more reasons to stay together. I'm sure some couples jump into swinging at this point just to have something to connect over.

 

Yes. It does boil down to you can either handle it or you can't. But, there are myriads of reasons why you may not be able to handle it, and really none of them have much to do with whether or not you love your partner enough.

 

Also this may be a hot button. When you add swinging to your life and your differentiating "making love" versus fucking or just sex. Physically it's really the same thing. Are we calling sex with our spouses making love because it's the right thing to do and it is our way of assigning it that specialness that we need to make each other feel better?

 

The physical act is the same, but the emotional act is different. My husband and I often JUST FUCK. In fact, we probably "just fuck" more often than we make love. Fucking is the act of having sex for purely pleasurable / release reasons. We want to get off and that's really all it's about. When we "make love" it's about much more than that, it's an emotional connection and reconnection. We come out of that act feeling closer to each other and more connected overall. Somehow after we "make love" our feelings of love towards each other are stronger. I can't explain it more than that, as I can't say I completely understand it myself. However, I will say that there is not that emotional element (at all) when we are with others. There's no real mental or emotional connection. It's just sex, it's an act and (hopefully, if all goes well) it's a pleasurable one for everyone involved.

[shrevecouple 252]

Jealousy typically does not exist in a vacuum. It's rare that someone who has NO jealous tendencies at all suddenly develops them when the idea of swinging is introduced into the mix.

 

I can promise you I didn't. I agree trust is a big part of love. I suppose that long term trust involved knowing he would never cross that boundary. Swinging is a mind fuck as well as physical. You can look over at your spouse with someone else and it looks the same. I have struggled with it leaving me feeling less special even though he remained that way for me after a swinging experience. I had not felt that before. And really it had nothing to do with the love aspect. It was more purely physical.

 

I can pretty much agree with everything after this that you said. I can say for us, he is the more "making love" kind of guy and I am more of the "for pleasure" type. I have sex with him because I love him and I'm attracted to him though. Oh well. I know what I mean. Haha

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I can promise you I didn't. I agree trust is a big part of love. I suppose that long term trust involved knowing he would never cross that boundary. Swinging is a mind fuck as well as physical. You can look over at your spouse with someone else and it looks the same. I have struggled with it leaving me feeling less special even though he remained that way for me after a swinging experience. I had not felt that before. And really it had nothing to do with the love aspect. It was more purely physical.

 

Don't misunderstand. A lack of jealousy does not mean you should swing. There is much more to it. The fact that you don't want him with another woman, may not have anything to do with jealousy. Unfortunately, there are many things that in our head don't bother us but when presented with them in reality we make very different choices than we would have thought we would. For many, swinging is one of those things. Some times it should be left as a fantasy.

 

You have referred several times to how your situation of him being with another woman made you feel "less special". To me this says that your issue isn't jealousy but rather simply a self-esteem issue. You need to be the center of attention to "feel special". When you are with other guys or in a MFM situation or just with your hubby then you are the center of that universe. When he was with someone else, he turned his back to you for a brief time and took away some of the attention you thought should have gone to you and gave it to someone else.

[shrevecouple 252]

You have referred several times to how your situation of him being with another woman made you feel "less special". To me this says that your issue isn't jealousy but rather simply a self-esteem issue. You need to be the center of attention to "feel special". When you are with other guys or in a MFM situation or just with your hubby then you are the center of that universe. When he was with someone else, he turned his back to you for a brief time and took away some of the attention you thought should have gone to you and gave it to someone else.

 

I will absolutely admit to this. Probably my biggest turn-on being the center of attention sexually.

 

 

I only refer to this because it's what I know from my experience.

 

I am competitive by nature and it could definitely be part of my problem in swinging.

[Chicup 41]

Personally I'd say not having a little bit of jealousy from time to time is as unhealthy as being overly jealous about everything. There have been studies (and I don't have a link now) which showed that couples with no jealousy were more likely to break up.

 

To put it in an extreme example to emphasize my point, if a wife were going out to tag team a biker gang every night and the guy stayed home watching reruns and it didn't bother him or worry him one bit, odds are thats not a long term healthy relationship.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Well yeah, I agree with you there Chicup. There are extreme cases where I'd probably feel jealous. That was actually an issue in my first marriage. He was no remotely jealous at all (it seemed). I think I wanted him to actually say "no" once in a while and it never happened. When it's that extreme you question whether or not the other person really cares.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

Personally I'd say not having a little bit of jealousy from time to time is as unhealthy as being overly jealous about everything. There have been studies (and I don't have a link now) which showed that couples with no jealousy were more likely to break up.

 

I don't agree. Studies are lovely, but I always want to know everything about how they were constructed and conducted before I give any credence at all. Absent that, it's lies, damn lies, statistics and studies.

 

In this case, I think you're mistakenly equating indifference - a certain relationship killer - with lack of jealousy, something not all of us experience, even though we're passionate about our partners. And, no, that doesn't mean I never feel the slightest bit of unease, but only that in the rare instances it happens I have other stuff going on. That's not jealousy, just a nick in my sense of self.

[Chicup 41]

I don't agree. Studies are lovely, but I always want to know everything about how they were constructed and conducted before I give any credence at all. Absent that, it's lies, damn lies, statistics and studies.

 

In this case, I think you're mistakenly equating indifference - a certain relationship killer - with lack of jealousy, something not all of us experience, even though we're passionate about our partners. And, no, that doesn't mean I never feel the slightest bit of unease, but only that in the rare instances it happens I have other stuff going on. That's not jealousy, just a nick in my sense of self.

 

Sounds like semantics games.

[junglecouple 127]

Ya know what they say... "A rose, by any other name, smells the same" : IE: jealousy vs: that doesn't mean I never feel the slightest bit of unease.

 

Call the "unease" what you will, it's the same, and to some extent, that's fine! Just recognize it for what it is, relax, and think a bit... that feeling should "ease".

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

Sounds like semantics games.

 

Ya know what they say... "A rose, by any other name, smells the same" : IE: jealousy vs: that doesn't mean I never feel the slightest bit of unease.

 

Call the "unease" what you will, it's the same, and to some extent, that's fine! Just recognize it for what it is, relax, and think a bit... that feeling should "ease".

 

No. And I'm tempted to add "bad dog!" to the negative, because it's generally considered poor form to name feelings for others unless, a) they've asked you to, or, b) you have some training in the field.

 

Jealousy is an extremely complex grab bag of fears and feelings that may or may not be culturally based. Research has been inconclusive about that and may reflect researcher bias, so I'm sticking with Merriam-Webster's definition:

 

Definition of JEALOUS

1a : intolerant of rivalry or unfaithfulness b : disposed to suspect rivalry or unfaithfulness

2: hostile toward a rival or one believed to enjoy an advantage

3: vigilant in guarding a possession

 

I have a special fondness for number three, because that's what I've seen most often.

 

Unease is a personal thing. My hair's having a bad day/I have a pimple on my ass/why is my stomach pooching out? and I'm not at my most confident, so I'm going to be a little tender with myself until that passes. ;-)

[Chicup 41]

No. And I'm tempted to add "bad dog!" to the negative, because it's generally considered poor form to name feelings for others unless, a) they've asked you to, or, b) you have some training in the field.

 

Jealousy is an extremely complex grab bag of fears and feelings that may or may not be culturally based. Research has been inconclusive about that and may reflect researcher bias, so I'm sticking with Merriam-Webster's definition:

 

Definition of JEALOUS

1a : intolerant of rivalry or unfaithfulness b : disposed to suspect rivalry or unfaithfulness

2: hostile toward a rival or one believed to enjoy an advantage

3: vigilant in guarding a possession

 

I have a special fondness for number three, because that's what I've seen most often.

 

Unease is a personal thing. My hair's having a bad day/I have a pimple on my ass/why is my stomach pooching out? and I'm not at my most confident, so I'm going to be a little tender with myself until that passes. ;-)

 

Well good for you then, you buck the trend. That doesn't mean its not a trend. Perhaps you never have any jealousy ever, and for you its worked out completely perfectly. That doesn't invalidate the idea that a little jealousy is healthy for a relationship. It may also be you have never been put in a situation where you would experience jealousy.

 

For example, we had swinger friends who never had any jealousy issues, until several years after knowing them he came over with her permission for an MFM. This is after she had several MFM's herself with me. She told me later she was freaking out about it while he was gone. For her this was something she wasn't expecting, but it was there. She just was never placed in a gotcha moment. Now perhaps you can't imagine a situation where you would feel jealousy, but I think you would be in a minority even for swingers.

[Frzrbrn 15]

I found truth and glimmers of wisdom in almost every post (as I see them) and wanted to throw a few things in the mix.

 

I'm not the "jealous" type. I really believe that, but I can't account for every situation, nuance, scenario, condition, event that could ever happen and say 100% "I'll never get jealous"... I've never been involved with anything close to swinging and if put in that situation I may be shown a revelation about myself and literally explode from jealousy (who really knows until they have faced or experienced the event). That doesn't mean my thoughts or opinions are invalidated. And if I can't do it, there are others who can't either. With that being said there are even others that can attest to their own experiences and say they never get jealous about anything.

 

Lovemaking / Sex / Fucking / whatever is relative. Hypothetically: You're an observer in my bedroom and you witness me and my wife doing one of the following (making love, having sex, plain ole' fuckin', raunchy-crazy-tribal-frenzy-fucking-with-light-sabres-and-french-onion-dip-sex [really intense stuff]...) You could classify it as it relates to your life. But to me and my wife the "raunchy-crazy-tribal-frenzy-fucking-with-light-sabres-and-french-onion-dip-sex" may be making love in our estimation and anything else is just "sex" while to you it's it may be repulsive or too obscene for the human eye... Either way everything is relative. Everything...

 

The kicker is how feelings are received and tendered by a person's partner...