The Second "D" word

[muffinkm 15]

When people say they are D&D free I assume they mean disease and drug. I further assume they are referring to illegal drugs. Do they mean any illegal drugs or just the injectable variety. Is there a general consensus against marijuana? What about ecstacy? It is supposed to increase tactile stimulation and empathy. Can anyone confirm this? ..or is it just for dancing?

[bccpl77 15]

I would like to hear others thoughts on this as well. I consider myself D&D free although i smoke the odd joint in social situations. I can confirm the effects of ecstacy although i havent done any drugs harder than marijuana since i was a teenager. I would like to try ecstacy again sometime in a swinging situation, but that would be many years down the road, after there is no prospect of having any more children. Anyways i look forward to hearing others thoughts on this.

[windsor4fun2 130]

I have always assumed it referred more to intravenous drug use due to the higher historical probability of the person having a disease from shared needles. Mild recreational drug use has never been an issue with us but we aren't interested in play with heavy users even if it only marijuana. In those cases there usually are other personality differences that cause not to click anyways.

 

Jesse

[naughty A 23]

I assume it means DRUG free...

 

I wouldn't worry about someone who smoked the odd joint in their OWN home... but I don't want someone doing Coke in MY HOUSE...

 

or ecstacy... but hey ... I'm a bit of a prude about drugs I guess.

[windsor4fun2 130]

I think someone doing drugs in your home is a whole different issue, whether it is a joint or coke. If someone started to do either without asking us first, they would be gone pretty quick. It is only common courtesy to check with the hosts.

 

Jesse

[MassageCouple69 16]

Yea, we smoke the occasional joint, but if someone started one up in my house without asking me, I would be offended, and would not invite them back over. I have no problem with marijuana, but anything harder needs to be left to the privacy of their own home or with others that do the same. Unless smoking is a common ground that is mutually agreed upon (brought up before, and both parties are interested) I think it should just be left out.

I haven't really conducted a poll, but I have found that more people than you would suspect smoke a joint or two now and again in the right situation. The more outgoing the person (i.e. sexually liberated people), the greater the chance. I wouldn't bring it up though unless I really thought that they partake, it just creates unneeded tension.

All that said, great fun when included though!!

[Alura 2,775]

We don't consider tobacco, alcohol nor marijuana to be included in "D&D Free" since none of the three increase the risks of catching an STD. To us, that's the only reason to mention "D&D Free."

 

We'd get really upset if someone fired up a joint or a cigarette in our house without asking first. As it is, smokers go to the outdoor patio or veranda to light up. We have never had to ask.

 

We don't know anything about ecstacy. If any hard drugs, including cocaine, were brought out in our house, the guests would be asked to leave.

 

Alura

[twopeople2 15]

Originally posted by naughty A

I assume it means DRUG free...

 

I wouldn't worry about someone who smoked the odd joint in their OWN home... but I don't want someone doing Coke in MY HOUSE...

 

or ecstacy... but hey ... I'm a bit of a prude about drugs I guess.

 

I guess I'm a prude about drugs too. I almost fell out of my chair when I read someone's profile and it said they smoked weed. What you do in the privacy of your home is definitely your person. I just wouldn't want to be out with someone who's carrying it around. Harmless as a little may be, it's still illegal.

[J & K 16]

We are D/D free and the second "D" in our book means any drug that can get you jail time. You do a drug that the police say is "hand Cuff" time then stay away from us!!!! Now being drunk is different since you can't go to jail unless you get caught driving or looking like an ass in public. First "D" means to us---STD free.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

If I smoked pot, which I am not saying either way, I would not put D and D free in my add.

 

I would screen upon discussing it with them though.

 

Now, if I smoked pot but it wasn't necessary to do regularly I would respond to someone that put D and d free in their add.

 

I would just plan on not smoking any with them.

 

Exctasy is a narcotic that is comparable to crack cocaine. That isn't even in my ball park. People have no idea not only on the horrible risk, but the legal ramifications. IT is a schedule 1 narcotic...just like heroin or crack...of course Pot is too, but that is nothing short of ridiculous in my book.

 

John

[Guest Seymore]

Actually, neither ecstacy nor cocaine are narcotics—both are stimulants. Crack cocaine is extremely dangerous and addictive, but ecstacy is considered comparatively safe. Myself, I've never done either and dont plan to.

[St. Augustine 20]

(Cathy)

 

Not sure why you would think ecstacy was comparatively safe with all the deaths that are related to this drug. It is not a safe drug to use and can cause serious harm to the taker.

 

I'm also in the prude category when it comes to drugs and use of drugs. Probably because I had an older brother that was a drug user and saw the harm and ill effects it causes first hand. It sure kept me away from wanting to try drugs at all.

 

I always assumed that an ad that stated D&D free meant drug and disease free... I'm probably way off the mark tho.

 

LOL

[Vjklander 138]

I read it as Drug and Disease free. That is to say, there is no charge for the drugs or diseases.

j/k

No communicable diseases of any kind, and no illegal drugs. That is especially important in this area where just about everyone has piss tests or clearances to worry about.

In the general scheme of things, getting a bit of a buzz from red wine does all I ever need. My brain is bizarre enough without adding chemicals.

J

[hfire269 16]

We take it as DRUG FREE. All drugs that are illegal. We both drink and he smokes but thats it. Since he has his CDL we dont even allow drugs on our protery and when we are at friends houses and they light up we leave the room or they go to another room. We arent against it. its everyones choice.

hifre269

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Originally posted by Seymore

Actually, neither ecstacy nor cocaine are narcotics—both are stimulants. Crack cocaine is extremely dangerous and addictive, but ecstacy is considered comparatively safe. Myself, I've never done either and dont plan to.

 

Narcotics are indeed depressants. Ecstacy is not considered comparatively save when compared to alcohol, or powdered cocaine though. I have really researched this subject and read some pretty staggering facts about what it does to yur body. It is really not comparatively safe at all. I would recommend that people just stay away from it. Cocaine was in the same category when I was younger. I have seen many many people totally lose their lives to cocaine. They died, they lost kids, jobs, material things, and would go to any lenght to get some more. The common belief was that it isnt addicting though....well it most certainly is....just like alcohol and ecstasy. If it makes your dopamine level go up, which it does its addicting.

 

John

[hotcpl4unfla 19]

I would interpret drug and disease free to imply one doesn't do drugs of any sort (yes, marijuana included... it IS a drug), excluding tobacco and alcohol. We have had experiences with ecstasy. It's not worth the hype. In fact, it IS very dangerous. The stuff can kill you, although it is not as deadly as heroin or cocaine. I personally feel anything that you swallow/ inject/ smoke or snort that is a gamble with your life is absurd. It isn't worth it. Sex is great on its own without any additional stimulation. If you need that kind of stimulation, get Viagra or some testosterone supplementation. Ecstasy can cause erectile difficulties in larger doses. Why would you want to do that??? Not to mention it's a major bummer if you get caught with it (it's a felony in most states), and you can become psychologically addicted to it. Stay away.

[OhioCouple 41]

Originally posted by hotcpl4unfla

I would interpret drug and disease free to imply one doesn't do drugs of any sort (yes, marijuana included... it IS a drug), excluding tobacco and alcohol.

That is how I see it also. Anyone that uses an illegal substance or abuses a prescription drug is not DRUG FREE to me. I take a hard stance where drugs are concerned, for very good reason. ZERO tolerance here, and trust me, it is readable, even for those that state that they are DD Free and they really aren't.

[MassageCouple69 16]

ZERO tolerance here, and trust me, it is readable, even for those that state that they are DD Free and they really aren't

You'd be surprised at how UNREADABLE it is in most....

In any event, I would not put D&D free if I did any sort of drug, because even marijuana is a drug, so why lie?

If I see a D&D post, I assume it means just that.

[OhioCouple 41]

Originally posted by MassageCouple69

You'd be surprised at how UNREADABLE it is in most....

Perhaps it is unreadable FOR most, but it isn't unreadable for me. When you have someone close to you that uses and is addicted off an on, you can read it. It doesn't matter if it is an occasional user or not. Thirty years of readablity experience speaking here.

[MassageCouple69 16]

Oh...if you are talking about a harder drug use (I gather this from the 30 years of off and on), then I agree. There are some that can read it. I have had friends go down that road, and ruin their lives with drug use (never touched hard drugs myself) , and I can tell when someone is a harder drug user (or has been). But someone that occasionaly smokes pot? No, I cannot tell this.

I'll end this hear as the wife is calling for sex!! !!

D and N

[alabamafuntonig 20]

d+d free

all this time i thought they were refering to the 1970's

dunguens and dragons craze that spread threw this country.

 

no on the serios side.

 

no hard drugs no catchy things .

 

you pull a needle out in my house i hope you like it in your butt. and i mean side ways.

as far as the pot issue, well ask first ,step out side ,and you better be able to control yourself becouse ,control is a whole other issue.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Personally I prefer to not use drugs. I certainly don't think that pot is a drug though. So many people drink a few glasses of wine and actually discuss the horrible pot users.

 

When it comes to D and D free, I assume it refers to drugs and diseases that could possibly affect the people you may swing with. That is why if someone says D and D free, I wouldn't presume to think they don't smoke a joint once in while. I kinda don't think it would be any of my business to be honest.

 

Lets say someone had chrons disease. This is a horrible disease to have, but does that make you unable to respond to a D and D free add? I would think not, because there is no way this particular disease could affect your possible partners in swinging.

 

The argument could be made that because you have a disease you are lying. To me that is the same argument that one could make about someone that chooses to smoke pot. What difference could it possibly make if the person smokes pot? Of course I am suggesting the person doesn't meet you high or carry it with them.

 

The most common drug next to nicotine is alcohol. Pot doesn't even rank up there with widely used drugs as much as nicotine, caffeine, or alcohol. Maybe the definition is that if you do anything illegal.....well sodomy and oral sex are still illegal in lots of places. Infedility is illegal...swinging is illegal in many places.

 

I think people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. All issues are not black and white, many are grey. I say, hey if you want to shoot up heroin thats up to you, but just don't have sex with me because you may be putting me at risk if you do.

 

Now if you drink coffee, you really don't need to devulge it to me, cuz like pot it could have no effect on me.

 

John

[alabamafuntonig 20]

bravo but we all know they mean the hard drugs ....

 

like chocolate!

[BradAndJanet 70]

Great post, John. Considering my experiences with both drinkers (loud, obnoxious, sloppy and occasionally violent) and pot smokers (giggly, mellow and eventually sleepy, ), if I had the choice, I'd make pot legal and outlaw alcohol.

 

But, don't even think of taking away my coffee!

 

-B (who is on cup #2 already this morning)

[OhioCouple 41]

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN

Now if you drink coffee, you really don't need to devulge it to me, cuz like pot it could have no effect on me.

I strongly disagree. Pot can have have an effect unlike alochol or nicotine that ruins lives. While 'Pot heads' may seem mellow when they are high enough, they can be pretty dangerous too, especially when they just can't drive to the corner store to buy more.

[bccpl77 15]

"Pot can have have an effect unlike alochol or nicotine that ruins lives."

 

im sorry mrs O but i cant believe you posted that. From what i understand alcohol has ruined many lives, id venture to say many more than pot. And I thought we were talking about people who smoke the odd joint here and there. Calling these people(myself included) "potheads" is like calling someone who has a glass of wine once in a while an alcoholic. I do agree that pot can and has ruined many lives, ive seen it first hand many times, but if used in moderation I dont see it having a negative effect on anyones life other than the obvious health affects of inhaling smoke.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Originally posted by bccpl77

"Pot can have have an effect unlike alochol or nicotine that ruins lives."

 

im sorry mrs O but i cant believe you posted that. From what i understand alcohol has ruined many lives, id venture to say many more than pot. And I thought we were talking about people who smoke the odd joint here and there. Calling these people(myself included) "potheads" is like calling someone who has a glass of wine once in a while an alcoholic. I do agree that pot can and has ruined many lives, ive seen it first hand many times, but if used in moderation I dont see it having a negative effect on anyones life other than the obvious health affects of inhaling smoke.

 

The marijuana laws in our country are absolutely designed to put poor people in jail and prison. The people with money just hire a good attorney and enroll themselves into an expensive drug rehap program and life goes on. When a low income person gets caught smoking pot, that person may suffer devastating consequences. They may be fined, jailed, and often lose life sustaining government benefits, plus their driving license (even if they don't drive while using pot), along with all of their belongings under horribly unfair siezure laws.

 

It is estimated that a person would have to smoke a hundred pounds of marijuana a minute for fifteen minutes in order to produce a lethal response from the active ingredient.

 

About 724,000 people were arrested in 2001 for marijuana violations. It is obviously a big money maker for the federal government as well as state and local governments.

 

Yeah, a lot of lives have indeed been ruined by pot. Not because the little plant that grows wild in all 50 states is evil, but mainly because the laws concerning possesing it are outlandishly severe.

 

Pot is one of the most misunderstood subjects on the planet. I believe it is completely proper to use comparisons of one substance to another and if you compare pot with alcohol, alcohol has much more severe symptoms to the user than pot.

 

Concerning swinging, the lifestyle continues to be unassociated with drug use. I have never seen pot use or any illegal drug tolerated at a swing club and this says a lot for the overall responsibility of swingers. Yes, we need to follow the laws when we gather, but we don't need to agree with them.

 

If anyone could come up with a clear cut rational reason that alcohol use is legal and pot use is illegal I would welcome it. I just have to go by facts rather than hysteria and the facts demonstrate that pot is not even in the same category as alcohol concerning effects, addiction, abuse, or deaths associated with its use.

 

OH well, the madness continues, and I continue to watch the people without money being incarcerated put out of jobs and apartments for doing no crime, while the middle-upper income people skate away with hardly a problem.

 

John

[bccpl77 15]

with regards to Flori_DAMAN's post id like to note the laws on posession of marijuana are much more lenient here. Small amounts won't get you arrested. Sometimes not even confiscated.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Originally posted by bccpl77

with regards to Flori_DAMAN's post id like to note the laws on posession of marijuana are much more lenient here. Small amounts won't get you arrested. Sometimes not even confiscated.

 

I do understand Canada is sensible on this subject. I went to college in the upper peninsula of Mich. Once I was smoking a joint with a local female and she had no idea that it was illegal. Her parents farmed and grew it, so it was absolutely no big deal to her. They are called Yupers and are hard working people that at that time usually didn't even own TV's. They were completely dependant on the other locals and the police (at that time) had absolutely no marijuana enforcement. Concerts and public gatherings, even bowling alleys, always had the pot aroma.

 

I wonder how many of them are in jail now. Growing it is considering manufacturing, and even one pot plant can land the "farmer" in prison.....absolutely horrifying.

 

John

[OhioCouple 41]

Originally posted by bccpl77

"Pot can have have an effect unlike alochol or nicotine that ruins lives."

 

im sorry mrs O but i cant believe you posted that. From what i understand alcohol has ruined many lives, id venture to say many more than pot.

You are correct bccpl77 and I stand corrected. Alcohol definitely ruins more lives than the person that smokes pot on occasion. I guess when I look at it, one joint has more of an effect on the body than one drink does, hence the reason for me saying the term 'pot heads' meaning someone who abuses it.

 

I have had the unfortunate task of dealing with someone very close to me lately that has begun to use drugs again after being drug free for nearly 25 years. The road hasn't been easy and I am somewhat sensitive when it comes to drug usage of any kind. Truth be told though, I guess I'm no better as I smoke nicotine, and that too is a drug.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Originally posted by OhioCouple

You are correct bccpl77 and I stand corrected. Alcohol definitely ruins more lives than the person that smokes pot on occasion. I guess when I look at it, one joint has more of an effect on the body than one drink does, hence the reason for me saying the term 'pot heads' meaning someone who abuses it.

 

I have had the unfortunate task of dealing with someone very close to me lately that has begun to use drugs again after being drug free for nearly 25 years. The road hasn't been easy and I am somewhat sensitive when it comes to drug usage of any kind. Truth be told though, I guess I'm no better as I smoke nicotine, and that too is a drug.

 

I hope things work out for your loved one Mrs O. I think the world would be a better place if money wasted on the "drug war" went into programs for educating people, rehabilitating abusers, and developing medicines that could possibly assist or even cure abusers.

 

People are lined up for rehabilitation centers that don't even have a very good record for even reducing the incidences of chemical abuse. There are drugs being developed that may one day change the way the brain works in people that have addictive personalities. Considering the number of people affected by this problem, I would think it would be considered one of our highest priorities as society, while in fact incarceration is put on a much higher priority list.

 

John

[bccpl77 15]

I understand Mrs O. Its difficult to see someone you care about hurting themselves that way. I hope you guys are able to deal with the situation and overcome it.

[Alura 2,775]

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN

 

People are lined up for rehabilitation centers that don't even have a very good record for even reducing the incidences of chemical abuse. There are drugs being developed that may one day change the way the brain works in people that have addictive personalities. Considering the number of people affected by this problem, I would think it would be considered one of our highest priorities as society, while in fact incarceration is put on a much higher priority list.

 

John

 

I think we should legalize all "crimes without victims" including the drug trade, tax them, and use the proceeds to fund a National Health Care Insurance Program. Addiction, of course, would be one of the health care problems. The millions of dollars now being wasted on a failed "War on Drugs" could also be used to fund health care. Our prisons would virtually be emptied of the non-violent "criminals" currently making up 60% of the prison population. Savings there could be put into law enforcement of violent crimes and rehabilitation or incarceration of violent criminals.

 

A friend of mine, a Tulsa Police Detective, thinks crime would be reduced by as much as 80%, freeing up a huge number of police officers to undertake enforcement of laws that are possible to enforce such as murder, robbery and rape.

 

I once knew a "Drug Counselor" who worked for the US Army in Europe who was a pot head. He had virtually no supervision so he was free to "do his thing" which was to convert alcohol and hard drug users to marijuana. He claimed his "program" which, of course, the Army was oblivious to, was the only successful one in Europe. His "clients" were very good about keeping his secret and rarely went back to hard drugs. Of course, he supplied them with the hashish he "prescribed" and had a rather large Swiss bank account when he was mustered out. Go figure...

 

My kid brother was busted here in Oklahoma for smoking a joint many years ago. His custom van was confiscated, our family spent a fortune on his legal defense and while in prison, he was taught to hot wire cars. Great system, No?

 

Mr. Alura

[OhioCouple 41]

Originally posted by bccpl77

I understand Mrs O. Its difficult to see someone you care about hurting themselves that way. I hope you guys are able to deal with the situation and overcome it.

Thank you for not taking my posting to too much offense. I posted at whim and I posted due to my feelings with a current situation, which for the record has nothing to do with pot. It is a matter of harder substance abuse. That said...

 

Regarding marijuana. Personally, I think it should be legalized. It has been proven to help those in the final stages of chronic disease and quite frankly I think it has more medicinal/psychological value than morphine.

 

While I personally do not care for marijuana (the smell alone just nauseates me) as I have experienced the effects of it a couple of times in my youth. Once upon being given a 'hit' of it (as they called it back then), I passed out nearly immediately. I discovered later that it had been laced with Angel Dust, and it took my body nearly three days to recouperate. Perhaps that is why I can smell it a mile away and why I abhor it.

[bear_n_bunny 43]

To us, "D&D" (or DDF, for Drug and Disease Free, is another way of expressing it I've seen) means no drugs and no STDs. And to us, "no drugs" means just that, no drugs, and this means anything that is illegal. I won't quibble about alcohol, nicotine or caffeine, or the risks of using these, as anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together knows full well that in this context, "drug free" does not refer to those substances.

 

I've been to a few swing parties where you had the usual (fortunately small) number of knotheads who could not restrain themselves and had to go do their drug of choice. But even these had sense enough to take it out to their cars, which were parked out in the street. One of the ironclad rules (after the usual "no means no") was any drug use in or around the house would get you kicked out of the group so hard you'd bounce, although had it been up to me, that would have also included even doing drugs out in your car.

 

When it comes to drugs, I've been there, done that, and got the damn t-shirt (from experiences during my sordid youth). And while I would not have a problem with marijuana being legalized (it all but is these days in most places for recreational use, and this notion that the current marijuana laws are to "put poor people in prison" is a crock; nobody goes to prison for possession of recreational amounts of the weed), it does have it's risks, particularly where one's "motivation" to do things other than sit around smoking pot is concerned. So there are risks, which should be kept in mind if you are going to use the stuff.

 

But until such time as it is legalized, we won't play with people who use it, let alone any other drugs, and for damn sure you'd better not ever bring it into my house.

 

Bear

[alabamafuntonig 20]

Good point bear

The legalization of any drug may or may not swing me into letting them play,

If they did legalize pot im sure it could not get any worse than alcohol use. You will always have your addicts no matter what you do. Sure in my youth pot was around, smoked and enjoyed. As we grow we learn to curb ourselves of things that take too much money and time away from other things (kids).

As far as the medicinal affects of pot! Well they are well documented and I believe any one that is in true pain should never be denied something that is so cheap easy to get and available to stop there suffering!

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Originally posted by bear_n_bunny

"put poor people in prison" is a crock; nobody goes to prison for possession of recreational amounts of the weed),But until such time as it is legalized, we won't play with people who use it, let alone any other drugs, and for damn sure you'd better not ever bring it into my house.

 

Bear

 

There are hundreds of thousands of people in prison for possesion of marijuana. Over one ounce (bout the size of a pack of ciggarrettes, constitues possesion with the intent to deliver. When I used it I purchased a quarter lb per six months, so I could get a better price and not need to spend too much time at the dealers house.

 

When someone gets caught with even a gram over an ounce he is now subject to delivery felony laws. IF he has a previous record he could do years, if not life for this possesion. He could even have purchased seperate smaller packages, say quarter ounce bags, but just because they are packaged individually he is often arrested with the "intent" of delivery, a felony of delivering a schedule 1 narcotic is a serious offense....putting people in prison that cannot afford good attorneys. Check out the statistics on the income of those arrested for drug crimes and the incarceration rate taking into fact income. This is indisputable. Poor people arrested and go to jail or prison. RIch people skate.

 

Before saying it is a crock investigate the issue. Over 700,000 arrests per year do include simple possesion, however many of these were indeed sent to prison because they refused to play narc for the cops. Some of the lower income people do, but the people fortunate to have money just get a good attorney and wear the prosecutors out sooner or later, get the charges minimized to a misdemeanor, attend drug education and its over like a mole removal.

 

Concerning bringing it onto, into or around my personal property, I agree wholeheartedly. Your home is your castle and no one should jeapordize it in any way.

 

John

[vevaycple 16]

Sure its drug free. I would take it as consistent hard drug users. Or couples that want to get stoned out of their heads whenver they meet couples. Even the use of marijuana should be cleared by all involved before partaking. Its only polite.

[OhioCouple 41]

Originally posted by bear_n_bunny

.....(it all but is these days in most places for recreational use, and this notion that the current marijuana laws are to "put poor people in prison" is a crock; nobody goes to prison for possession of recreational amounts of the weed), ....

Not true where we live, Bear. Just possession of paraphanelia (sp?) will get you 90 days in jail and a hefty fine, whether or not it was yours or you were even under the influence at the time it was discovered.

[alabamafuntonig 20]

florida:

 

some states ie : alaska and california have a one once or larger law on the books to stop the already popular idea of busting users. other states do not.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Originally posted by alabamafuntonig

florida:

 

some states ie : alaska and california have a one once or larger law on the books to stop the already popular idea of busting users. other states do not.

 

Even some local communities have liberal possesion laws. Last I knew In Ann Arbor Mi. as example possesion results on something like a parking ticket.

 

In this area every day there is a full page of people listed for possesion. There is a massive drive to catch every one that puffs on a joint they can possibly get.

 

John

[alabamafuntonig 20]

its futile to dispute that laws are aimed at the poor not every poor person can afoard a once of pot. on the other hand most rich people can afford a good lawyer

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Originally posted by alabamafuntonig

its futile to dispute that laws are aimed at the poor not every poor person can afoard a once of pot. on the other hand most rich people can afford a good lawyer

 

It most definately is a dispute anyhow. Incarceration of poor people will always be higher, however the pot laws are enforced pretty inequally, thereby filling our prisons and jails with lower income users and small time dealers. The poor sell to the rich to pay for there own. So, the rich aren't often dealing small amounts and rarely sell it. The improsinement of any human being for a non-nviolent crime and such a petty crime is one of the greatest injustices in our country.

 

A common retort is...hey the guy knows the penalties, he is taking the chance. That is true, but is that the real issue? Or is the real issue that he wants to smoke joints and the only way he can is to sell some to others that can afford to pay for them. Usually if they do the crime they do the crime without fighting, so they are certainly paying the consequences, my problem is with the consequences. They are too severe.

 

 

How many family's are devestated by this, let alone the guy or gal sitting in a 8x 10 cell, eating crappy food, having to deal with the harassment of real criminals, and being unable to associate with his or her loved ones but once a week if they act good.

 

The taking away of freedom and its associated gift to allow one to live in happiness is quite a penalty for selling a bag of dried out weeds. Some people would claim it is about the most severe penalty by comparison to for just about any crime one can be incarcerated for. The most common by far also.

 

John

[alabamafuntonig 20]

A most valid argument, but keep in mind there are millions of pot smokers in the USA alone. They may be poor but what is the # of uneducated that are imprisoned, maybe they could teach a class in high school on how not to get railroaded.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Originally posted by alabamafuntonig

A most valid argument, but keep in mind there are millions of pot smokers in the USA alone. They may be poor but what is the # of uneducated that are imprisoned, maybe they could teach a class in high school on how not to get railroaded.

 

Poor people are much less educated then middle to high income. SO they won't get to the class on how not to get railroaded. The fact is that street wise people usually know how to deal with the police better than educated ones anyhow. IT is just that there rights are violated more and they cant do a thing about it. They get court appointed attorneys that are overloaded with pro bono's anyhow.

 

I can imagine how a course at the local middle school would be accepted. HOw to not get railroaded by the man 101...hm.

 

John

[Alura 2,775]

The Bureau of Justice Statistics reports that in 1999, the nation spent $146,556,000,000 on the Federal, State and Local justice systems. In that year, the United States had 1,875,199 adult jail and prison inmates. Based on this information the cost per inmate year was:

-- Corrections spending alone: $26,134 per inmate

-- Corrections, judicial and legal costs: $43,297 per inmate

-- Corrections, judicial, legal and police costs: $78,154 per inmate

 

Is it really worthwhile to spend this kind of money to keep pot smokers in jail?

 

Mr. Alura

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Originally posted by Alura

The Bureau of Justice Statistics reports that in 1999, the nation spent $146,556,000,000 on the Federal, State and Local justice systems. In that year, the United States had 1,875,199 adult jail and prison inmates. Based on this information the cost per inmate year was:

-- Corrections spending alone: $26,134 per inmate

-- Corrections, judicial and legal costs: $43,297 per inmate

-- Corrections, judicial, legal and police costs: $78,154 per inmate

 

Is it really worthwhile to spend this kind of money to keep pot smokers in jail?

 

Mr. Alura

 

It is ludicrous. THe one hope I had for the liberal party lately was that they would approach this....but uh uh. Clinton followed Bush sr. in promoting the same o same o. It doesn't seem to be changing either. The grass roots orginazations that oppose it are considered radical and mostly include people that had no idea how horrible the situation was until someone THEY knew got involved in the claws of the judicial system.

 

ONCe again, a non-partisan issue, with no hope in sight.

 

John

[Alura 2,775]

From 1984 to 1996, California built 21 new prisons, and only one new university.

 

California state government expenditures on prisons increased 30% from 1987 to 1995, while spending on higher education decreased by 18%.

 

Your tax dollars at work. Now I'm trying to find statistics comparing what we spent on prisons to what we spent on health care.

 

Mr. Alura

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Originally posted by Alura

From 1984 to 1996, California built 21 new prisons, and only one new university.

 

California state government expenditures on prisons increased 30% from 1987 to 1995, while spending on higher education decreased by 18%.

 

Your tax dollars at work. Now I'm trying to find statistics comparing what we spent on prisons to what we spent on health care.

 

Mr. Alura

 

That figure will be hard to find. The responsibility of assesing figures never takes into account the overlapping figures..healthcare in prisons counts too.

 

The figure of incarceration also is directly related to the increase in tax dollars spent on enforcement. That would needed to be included but you wont find an accounting system that does that.

 

All you will find is that the actual cost for improsinment populations went down, because of the greater number of "customers"...its a joke.

 

ACcounting would also have to include the huge income derived from improsining people. The dockets are full, and the income not only comes from fines but tax dollars in respect to the percentage of enforcement which is always tied into the drop of crime in an area. Totally misleading.

 

Good luck.

 

JOhn

[Alura 2,775]

In 1997, there were 55,069 drug offenders in federal prisons (out of a total Federal prison population of 88,018 that year). Of these, 10,094 were in for possession, 40,053 were in for trafficking, and 4,922 were in for other drug crimes. Only 25 percent of Federal drug offenders were under the influence of drugs at the time of their offense

 

In 1997, there were 216,254 drug offenders in state prisons (out of a total State prison population of 1,046,706 that year). Of these, 92,373 were in for possession, 117,926 were in for trafficking, and 5,955 were in for other drug crimes. Only 41.9 percent of State drug offenders were under the influence of drugs at the time of their offense.

 

Did someone say back a ways in this thread that nobody goes to prison for possession any more?

 

Roughly half of the prison population at any given time are black males. Did someone say the poor are not more likely to be imprisoned than the rich?

 

Mr. Alura