The Second "D" word

[bear_n_bunny 43]

Originally posted by Alura

Originally posted by bear_n_bunny

As for where I get my "opinion", I'm going to hazard a guess and say I was smoking pot before you were born, and have watched the evolution of the laws regarding this stuff over the past 35 years or so.

 

Damn! You're old, Bear! You must have been smoking pot since the 1930s.

 

Nope. Had my first toke in 1966 at age 13 (although I didn't get really into it until I was 16). Gave it up for career reasons around 1981. And if you are as old as you indicate, it does not say much for your powers of observation if you were unaware until now of the evolution of the laws regarding marijuana over the past 35 years.

 

Bear

[alabamafuntonig 21]

Ya your right (henry strokes bears ego a little more this morning)

The outlawing of marijuana was not a political thing right from the start. Bear! It was a war on drugs! They had a war on drugs in the 20’s like the prohibition of alcohol. You are correct they did not use the drug like they use it today. Once again society changed that! Also the Native Americans also introduced the Spaniards to marijuana sativa as a mind relaxed not for rope. The use of hemp for rope and other things was around along time before that. As far as the cigarette co. they did go head to head with the hemp growers of the 20’s the tobacco lobbyists were the #1 supporters of the Harrison act of 1937 were they taxed the production of hemp so far out of reach of the common farmer. And there # man in the drug agency Mr. anslinger was a son of tobacco farmer!

 

As far as something original! Yes it’s an old argument so is “did Jesus really exist” but millions of people still debate it. Who cares if it is old it still holds true. You are correct the government wastes tons of monies on pork belly projects. But alas. If the legalization of marijuana was to be made possible the government would not just switch spending from one project to another it would make money on this deal. Even though we can all grow it we all won’t and there will be another tax based economic boom for big brother.

[bear_n_bunny 43]

Originally posted by alabamafuntonig

Ya your right (henry strokes bears ego a little more this morning)

The outlawing of marijuana was not a political thing right from the start. Bear! It was a war on drugs! They had a war on drugs in the 20’s like the prohibition of alcohol. You are correct they did not use the drug like they use it today. Once again society changed that! Also the Native Americans also introduced the Spaniards to marijuana sativa as a mind relaxed not for rope. The use of hemp for rope and other things was around along time before that. As far as the cigarette co. they did go head to head with the hemp growers of the 20’s the tobacco lobbyists were the #1 supporters of the Harrison act of 1937 were they taxed the production of hemp so far out of reach of the common farmer. And there # man in the drug agency Mr. anslinger was a son of tobacco farmer!

 

As far as something original! Yes it’s an old argument so is “did Jesus really exist” but millions of people still debate it. Who cares if it is old it still holds true. You are correct the government wastes tons of monies on pork belly projects. But alas. If the legalization of marijuana was to be made possible the government would not just switch spending from one project to another it would make money on this deal. Even though we can all grow it we all won’t and there will be another tax based economic boom for big brother.

 

My, my. Did "Henry" get his feelings hurt? You Bama boys sure are a touchy lot... I don't know where you've been getting your information, but this notion that somehow the tobacco industry wanted to curtail they growing of marijuana is still bullshit. But that's OK, you believe what you want to. Whatever makes you happy is fine by me...

 

Bear

[alabamafuntonig 21]

no hurt feelings . lets not get to personal ok. im getting the info from varios sources available via the internet. and if you look up who anslinger was you will find he did lobby for the tabbaco industry before taking his job with the drug enforcement agency.

 

if you look at the raw facts these days and do some math a pack of cigs can cost $3 for a days worth $3 x 30 =$90 . the tax on that is almost half(depending on the state) so uncle sam gets $45 a month on the average smoker. he gets zip on marajuana.

 

hum maybe im wearing my tin hat again today but if you cant see a connection between big goverment and tobbaco maybe that marajuana you smoked all those years finally got to ya!

[sportync 20]

I've been following the "marijuana" thing for a while myself, and as far as my information goes, it was the liquor industry that was opposed to pot when they realized that prohibition was going to be repealed... they were afraid it would cut into their liquor sales. When prohibition became law, a guy named Harry Anslinger jumped in and decided that pot was as bad as alcohol and needed to be dealt with, hence movies like "Reefer Madness", and some really poor legislation. Some things are illegal because they are bad, and some things are bad because they are illegal. I think this is the case with pot. I worked many years in a rehabilitation facility and saw first-hand the effects of alcohol on a daily basis... something like 70% of the patients were there directly or indirectly because of alcohol abuse. Auto wrecks, domestic violence, broken or beaten children, ruined lives... that was a big part of rehab. I never once heard of anyone who was there because of marijuana abuse. Yet one is legal and dangerous and the other is illegal and basically inert. Any child can buy a bottle of aspirin and kill themselves with it, but if you sat down and tried to smoke a pound of pot, you'd pass out after the first 3 joints, and then you would wake up again instead of doing the dirt dance. There's just way too much money flying around to end the war on drugs, even though it's a war we can never win. You can get any drug you can think of in any maximum-security prison in the land. If they can't keep it out of prisons, then how the hell do they think they can keep it on the other side of our borders? It's all about money and budgets and elections and the good-ole-boy system that keeps the ones in power just where they want to be, and if you have to throw a bunch of pot-smokers in jail and ruin their lives, then so be it!

Case in point...a fellow I know got popped for selling to an undercover officer. They busted him and wanted him to turn on his source (his father). The lawyer said he could get him off with $5,000 and some names...but not just any names, they wanted specific information about specific people. Of course, he would then represent them for $5,000 and some names, then represent them for $5,000 and some names....and that's pretty much how it works, at least down heah in the Carolinas. Of course, the judge and the prosecuter and probably the sherriff all would get a piece of the pie, and everyone except for the "perp" would go home happy and a little bit richer. Back in the late 60's, I thought I would live to see the day that pot was legalized, but at 55, I don't think it's gonna' happen in my lifetime. The good news is that a lot of people realize that this whole thing is a load of crap and a huge waste of time and resources, but until the political climate changes, the laws aren't likely to. Look at cocaine.... America buys 70% of the world production of Cocaine, yet spends billions to make it go away. I think we should buy all of the cocaine, then sell a few dried leaves of it at the liquor store and use it like the indians do, a pinch between the cheek and gums. Nobody would abuse it because nobody could buy enough of it to abuse it. Then Crack would become a thing of the past because you couldn't get enough cocaine to make crack. Then maybe we could get our cities back, and not have to worry about taking care of babies born with an addiction. Sportync

[alabamafuntonig 21]

Its true Harry anslinger had a good deal of backing from liquor also. They were all running scared in the bars and saloons when the hashish clubs were multiplying in the gilded age of America. Most people think when you mention the government in any light towed covering something up or doing something for a greedy reason that you are nuts. Hey it was a turbulent time back then and we are not far from it today. As far as your crack idea. It’s a good start. It would only take a few years of death and misfortune to get our country free from the reigns of illegal drugs. Sure a lot of people would suffer but the end justifies the means. Cut the head off the snake make gangs and drug trafficking obsolete. Every kid can already get all the drugs he wants, if you don’t believe me ask you’re 10 year old if he knows what pot is or crack.

[Alura 2,778]

Excellent posts, Sporty and Alabama! Thanks to you both.

 

I would only add one thing: Tax all drugs, including alcohol and tobacco, and tax all "crimes without victims" inclluding prostitution and gambling, and use the proceeds only to fund a National Health Care Insurance program.

 

Mr. Alura

[alabamafuntonig 21]

works for me ! but cigs and alcohol is already taxed too much..

 

I would bring it a step further! raise the minumum smoking age to 21 and put a 21 age on marijuana and other thigs of the such.

[muffinkm 15]

When you talk of the early days, when pot first was made ilegal, you have to mention Randolph Hearst. He got on the "Ban the evil weed" even before Ansling. Stories of how crazed dope smokers axed their families, weren't especially true but they made great copy and changed the attitude of the general public. That was how Anslinger came to power.

[alabamafuntonig 21]

true the press was very influential in his work.

 

hum the media,big tobbaco,liguer and the goverment all we need is enron and we have a modern day american goverment

[Alura 2,778]

Originally posted by alabamafuntonig

works for me ! but cigs and alcohol is already taxed too much..

 

I would bring it a step further! raise the minumum smoking age to 21 and put a 21 age on marijuana and other thigs of the such.

 

Great idea, Alabama! If proceeds went only to Health Care, the tax could actually be lowered. Each product should be taxed based on the cost of treating the illnesses or injuries caused by that product.

 

The minimum age would also be a good idea. It would do a lot to keep drugs out of the hands of kids. Some would be available from older brothers (or boyfriends) buying them for younger people, but it would be a lot better than the huge underground organization that now delivers drugs to our school campuses.

 

Mr. Alura

[alabamafuntonig 21]

true mr alura. the tax would lower on the other products and a slush fund for medical problems would help burden the other tax payers. and yes shcools would benifit . kids alredy drink smoke and do drugs so maybe it would be less affective on the sleezy ways to get it.

[OhioCouple 41]

Originally posted by alabamafuntonig

works for me ! but cigs and alcohol is already taxed too much..

 

I would bring it a step further! raise the minumum smoking age to 21 and put a 21 age on marijuana and other thigs of the such.

I agree, but I would add (I'm gonna repeat myself here)

 

Raise it all to 21, which includes eligibility to fight for your country, but allow the age to vote remain at 18 so the kids can have a minimum of three years to learn politics and vote for the betterment of their generation and the generations that will follow them.

[alabamafuntonig 21]

mrs o ...ill agree but the us army need 18 year old aggresion if they wait till they are 21 then they will be able to make a decision on there own and recruiting will suffer

[Alura 2,778]

Originally posted by alabamafuntonig

mrs o ...ill agree but the us army need 18 year old aggresion if they wait till they are 21 then they will be able to make a decision on there own and recruiting will suffer

 

I have to go with Alabama on this one, Mrs. O. I would also add that there are a lot of 18 year-olds who need the army, those who've flunked out of school or can't afford to go to college, those who really need to get away from a very bad home life, and a thousand other reasons. We also need to continue with the college scholarships for veterans.

 

Perhaps we could arrive at a workable situation by simply electing presidents who make good decisions and don't go to war just to enhance their chances for reelection.

 

Mr. Alura

[alabamafuntonig 21]

or maybe presidents that go to war and share in the bounty they collected. can you say .29 cents a gallon for gas....

[OhioCouple 41]

"TRUCE!!!" Bama and Mr. Alura. You have both made fine points. How about this? They can join the military (or use it for educational purposes), get a good direction at the age of 18, learn responsibility, get a chance at a better life, "BUT" not be eligible to be sent into battle until the age of 21. By then the 18 year old body will be toned and more prepared for battle, with the ability to have formed a good mind set.

 

And before anyone goes off on me, (or says that I don't know what I am talking about) my son was 24 years of age when he entered the military. He knew what he was doing when he enlisted, he enlisted prior to 9/11 and he continues to choose to be enlisted inspite of things that could have given him an immediate out. He enlisted of his own accord AFTER receiving a BS degree from OSU. His physical fitness broke long standing records in several areas. The difference here is that he made an informed decision and not one that was forced upon him. The best I can do as a parent is to support his decisions as he is an adult and he is INFORMED. He isn't one that has no clue and just using the military for a quick out from a bad situation or for schooling purposes. Not that there is anything wrong with those that do, they just need to be mature enough to be informed and 18 isn't the age to decide it.

[alabamafuntonig 21]

ill call it a truce but keep in mind when all is said and done we men have to register when we are 18 anyway. and in the sceam of things most people who go in the service unless they choose infentry have a bit of training to do before they are shipped to war. but if they do go its ther choice no one is forcing them to join yet!

[Alura 2,778]

I like the idea "Join at eighteen, Fight at twenty-one!" Plenty of time for training.

 

"Hey, Joe! I got Algebra 101 right after Marching 101! What'd you get?"

 

"I made the Gunnery Team, Man! And I got WebDesign 101 for an elective!"

 

I like the sounds of that! Way to go, Mrs. O!

 

Mr. Alura

[Guest everlast]

Gee here's a big surprise... 9 pages and counting on a Mary Jane debate. Who'd a thought that!

 

Us Canadians say Legalize it! It's sad the prohibition has gone on as long as it has.

 

Maybe the Feds can lower our income tax levels if they tax it. (or at least not raise it for the rest our lives:D )

[OhioCouple 41]

Originally posted by alabamafuntonig

ill call it a truce but keep in mind when all is said and done we men have to register when we are 18 anyway. and in the sceam of things most people who go in the service unless they choose infentry have a bit of training to do before they are shipped to war. but if they do go its ther choice no one is forcing them to join yet!

I believe that both men and women should have to register and it not be limited to men only. I am one of those fair type people. Don't ask one to do what you wouldn't ask the other gender to do. Too bad you men can't get pregnant, ya'll need to expeience that one time at least. On the other hand I would love to have a penis for a day too...

 

Oops, this thread was about drugs wasn't it...

[sportync 20]

Let's just hope and pray they don't figure out a way to tax sex. We'd all be in some deep shit. Sportync

[jen 16]

 

Let's just hope and pray they don't figure out a way to tax sex. We'd all be in some deep sh**. Sportync

 

Yikes, Sportync... Where would they install the meter/coutner thingies.

 

my bad.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Originally posted by alabamafuntonig

Ya your right (henry strokes bears ego a little more this morning)

The outlawing of marijuana was not a political thing right from the start. Bear! It was a war on drugs! They had a war on drugs in the 20’s like the prohibition of alcohol. You are correct they did not use the drug like they use it today. Once again society changed that! Also the Native Americans also introduced the Spaniards to marijuana sativa as a mind relaxed not for rope. The use of hemp for rope and other things was around along time before that. As far as the cigarette co. they did go head to head with the hemp growers of the 20’s the tobacco lobbyists were the #1 supporters of the Harrison act of 1937 were they taxed the production of hemp so far out of reach of the common farmer. And there # man in the drug agency Mr. anslinger was a son of tobacco farmer!

 

As far as something original! Yes it’s an old argument so is “did Jesus really exist” but millions of people still debate it. Who cares if it is old it still holds true. You are correct the government wastes tons of monies on pork belly projects. But alas. If the legalization of marijuana was to be made possible the government would not just switch spending from one project to another it would make money on this deal. Even though we can all grow it we all won’t and there will be another tax based economic boom for big brother.

 

Given my druthers, the best of two evils is tax.

 

John

[alabamafuntonig 21]

Given my druthers, the best of two evils is tax.

 

ya lost me john what is druthers!

[windsor4fun2 130]

ya lost me john what is druthers!

 

druthers = preferences

 

Jesse

[alabamafuntonig 21]

thanks i only had $5 dollers so i could not afford the $10 doller word!

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Originally posted by alabamafuntonig

thanks i only had $5 dollers so i could not afford the $10 doller word!

 

Lol, I think its slang actually. Just a southern thang.