If it is same-sex, is it still cheating?

[bear_n_bunny 43]

I recently had the opportunity to chat with some couples where the men were bisexual. The discuss lead to the fact that both men felt that in nonlifestyle relationships (aka traditional marriage), that it wasn't cheating to have sex with another man since the wife couldn't satisfy that need. They also felt that bisexual women having sex with another woman wasn't cheating either. However, if the men had sex with another woman, it was cheating.

 

Needless to say all the women disagreed. So, I thought I might ask the boards opinion, is it cheating if you are bisexual and have sex with someone of the same sex? Does it matter if the partner doesn't know about the bisexuality?

[windsor4fun2 130]

If you are having sex behind your partner's back without their knowledge or permision it is cheating. It makes NO difference if it is with someone of the same sex or different sex.

[naughty A 23]

imo...

 

if the spouse KNOWS what they are doing it is not cheating...

 

If the spouse DOES NOT KNOW it IS.

[vevaycple 16]

If he or she is having sex with a person of the same sex behind the others' back or against the others' wishes it is definately cheating. All sex outside the marriage should not only be known about by the spouse, but ALSO be supported by the spouse.

[bccpl77 15]

Originally posted by bccpl77

if the spouse KNOWS what they are doing it is not cheating...

 

If the spouse DOES NOT KNOW it IS.

 

I'm with these guys.

[Alura 2,774]

Originally posted by bccpl77

if the spouse KNOWS what they are doing it is not cheating...

 

If the spouse DOES NOT KNOW it IS.

 

 

Im with these guys

 

We are, too.

[bear_n_bunny 43]

Thanks for chiming in, as I am not a bisexual male in a traditional marriage I wasn't sure I was seeing the whole picture. But as someone on thread here said, take the gender out of the formula and it's cheating. However, I feel for bisexual men and women who don't feel safe telling their spouse; don't want to risk the marriage for what would amount to getting something their spouse can't give them. Still, I'd rather do without than do with dishonesty.

[Alura 2,774]

Originally posted by bear_n_bunny

Still, I'd rather do without than do with dishonesty.

 

Good thinking, Bunny. One thing you'll find out about swingers is that they expect honesty from both their spouses and their playmates.

[ATAK 15]

I suppose the main reason I see it as cheating is that I cannot see (at all) what a man gets from being with another man. This holds no fascination for me at all, and in fact I try very hard NOT to think about the possible scenario. I have been in a few MFM scenarios and am comfortable enough with my sexuality to be naked in front of other men, but aside from glancing to see how I "stack up", I have no interest in men at all. I'm sure this has a major impact on my opinion as previously stated.

 

I certainly do not hold it against you if you prefer or are even open to such an encounter, but my preferences I'm sure sway my opinion on this subject.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

THis may bring up another issue.

 

What difference does it make if your partner cheats?

 

If they cheat with same sex, then your paranoia about long term commitments that could involve your s/o leaving you are different.

 

This goes along the same line as online sex. Maybe your partner won't leave you over a same sex interaction, or an online one, but the idea of being committed sexually to your partner is one that I take as sanctimonious.

 

I would not knowingly have any type of sex with a person that is attached. Whether it be homosexual (which I wouldn't do), or online.

 

Once you cross the line of trust it doesn't matter the vehicle.

 

So, my opinion is that whether it be same sex or hetero, trust is trust and the sanctimony of a sexually monogamous relationship based on monogamy unless both partners agree is still the same; both parties agree.

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by ATAK

I suppose the main reason I see it as cheating is that I cannot see (at all) what a man gets from being with another man.

Did I mis-read you?

 

Whether or not you can see the prospect of male bi-sexual relations, is really not the issue here. The issue here is "Is it okay for a man or a woman to have same sex relations without the knowledge of their significant other and be considered not cheating?"

I certainly do not hold it against you if you prefer or are even open to such an encounter, but my preferences I'm sure sway my opinion on this subject.

Are you then saying that (in your opinion) it is okay for the gal to take off an have sex with another female without her husbands knowledge but your opinion is swayed because it isn't MM actions?

 

Not trying to be critical, ATAK, but in my opinion, cheating constitutes any sexual or emotional act in which the other party is unaware of. Sexual orientation has no bearing on my opinion.

[ATAK 15]

Originally posted by OhioCouple

Did I mis-read you?

 

No you didn't mis-read me, but my point was that if I were bi-sexual, I might have a different opinion than I do as a straight man. I agree, that it shouldn't matter one way or the other. But the difference of preference, might tend to influence one's view on cheating...Any extra-relationship sex without the other's knowledge is cheating in my view, MM, FF or MF.

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by ATAK

No you didn't mis-read me, but my point was that if I were bi-sexual, I might have a different opinion than I do as a straight man.

Thanks for clarifying that, ATAK. I must say though, as I am a bi-sexual woman, I would consider it cheating to meet with another woman without my husband's consent and knowledge. I don't think that sexual preferences play a part in morals. At least they don't with me and obviously not with you either.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Let's say hypothetically speaking that you were attracted by a sexual goddess named Jeannette. She had everything you really wanted. She had soft long luxurious hair. She was very lightweight. She had those lips that begged for you.

 

She had a quiet personality. She never would involve herself in really intimate discussions with you.

 

She had a really neat feature that allowed you to blow her up without having to use say a pump machine.

 

Would this be cheating?

 

It is not that I'm particularly affected by this, but if you had two of them and used one more than the other would that be cheating?

 

Just hypothetical.

[bbcpl4cpl 17]

My husband and I talked about this a few years ago before swinging ever came into the picture. Okay, well not exactly talked about it. I was at the time trying to meet a bi woman on the side for my pleasure with my husband's blessing.

 

I jokingly told him that if he allowed me to have another woman, then he can get a man. Well, he's not bi so that wouldn't work.

[thump29 16]

Anytime you have sex behind your partners back then it is cheating. No matter if you are having sex with a person of the same sex or not!

[wrnakedru 38]

Anything unknown by or not agreed to is "cheating".

 

It is no excuse to set a scene with a bisexual male, who has activity outside his marriage because wife is unaware of this aspect of his sexuality. Or by its definition, is unable to meet this need of his.

 

So if a wife weren't a "swallower" it would then be acceptable for a man to stray with one who is? I think not.

 

As to the bisexuality issue, if that is unknown by his wife, he has already disrespected his marriage relationship by not communicating completely with his wife. If he is too fearful of her non-acceptance of it, then he needs to be non-acting on it.

 

They have other issues to deal with first. Those should be of the higher priority, otherwise a concern about "cheating" seems a bit hollow.

[bear_n_bunny 43]

I still sympathize. In the "real world," and not the one on MTV, how many people have the depth and understanding to deal with bisexuality in general, let alone in thier marriage. The posters on this board are already comfortable moving outside the boundaries of traditional relationships. Therefore I think that the concept of being honesty about ones sexuality is less frightening.

 

I know I over heard a woman at work talking about her friend who found out her husband had a membership to alternateconnections.com, a mainly homosexual/bisexual meeting service if I understand correctly. The tone of that discussion among co-workers assured me that I best not jump in with my opinions. As well, unlike females, I get the impression that bisexual men are far less accepted, by not only the community at large, but by swingers as well.

 

I feel for the man who suddenly realizes his occasional fantasies about being with another man means he is bisexual. I know my fantasies, though mainly heterosexual, lead me to swinging. The longer I denied them, the more urgent it got for me to do something about them. What about the man who is in a happy marriage and starts to have trouble because he can't deal with his bisexuality? Anyway, I just watched Far From Heaven so maybe I'm bit too touchy feeling on the subject.

 

Still, no matter how it comes about, it is cheating. I just understand how it can come about.

[wrnakedru 38]

Originally posted by bear_n_bunny

As well, unlike females, I get the impression that bisexual men are far less accepted, by not only the community at large, but by swingers as well.

 

What about the man who is in a happy marriage and starts to have trouble because he can't deal with his bisexuality?

 

Still, no matter how it comes about, it is cheating. I just understand how it can come about.

 

As can I.

 

There is, as you say, no stigma placed on a bisexual woman regarding her femininity. But even within the swingers world, there are some who question the masculinity of a bisexual man.

 

So it is not difficult to imagine the reluctance a bisexual man might feel to discuss this with his mate. I would think this reluctance would turn to fear if they are pretty straight living folks. If the wife has had limited exposure to those who live their lives with a "free spirited" attitude, his fear would include the absolute belief she lacked the foundation to even begin to deal with his bisexuality. And that as a result, she would be incapable of understanding, much less accepting of it. (And worse, would never view him in the same way ever again)

 

Then consider how much more difficult it will be to explain to her how she has become infected with an STD.

 

Those men who seek same sex activity outside their marriages (as opposed to as a part of threesome or foursome shared activity) are fair more likely to become infected with, and share with their spouse, any number of STD's up to and including the "big one".

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

I have always had and exercised a very limited bi-sex fantasy. The fantasy just kind of comes and goes. When it gets intense it is like any other full blown fantasy, but that is really rare, even when I am in a relationship.

 

I would suggest just cuz I think this is worth mentioning, that if you are a guy that just gets the bi-fantasy very rarely and that's it, then forget it, that's normal. IF you get it quite a bit and feel like you need to live it out then approach your feminine half with the honesty that you at least have the fantasy.

 

Then, you gots a chance of living it out with her. Hell, most females fantasize about it but are more afraid to bring it up than you cuz you're a big macho guy.

[alabamafuntonig 20]

Come on guys. You all know it’s cheating! If you screw around with out your spouse knowing it’s cheating. I don’t care if you have sex with a goat. Still cheating. Sex with a blow up doll, not cheating, that’s kinky. Male sex with a male still cheating. What happened to all this “swinging is about one love of another and making there bond closer stuff” if you insert your penis anywhere in another person without prior consent then that is cheating. Period. You all know better.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Originally posted by alabamafuntonig

Come on guys. You all know it’s cheating! If you screw around with out your spouse knowing it’s cheating. I don’t care if you have sex with a goat. Still cheating. Sex with a blow up doll, not cheating, that’s kinky. Male sex with a male still cheating. What happened to all this “swinging is about one love of another and making there bond closer stuff” if you insert your penis anywhere in another person without prior consent then that is cheating. Period. You all know better.

 

Yes, that was why I suggested to bring it up to your S/O, rather than acting it out.

 

You are correct the way I see it.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

You still gotta explain why cheating with a goat is kinky, but a blow up doll cheating...sorry but...

[Alura 2,774]

Originally posted by wrnakedru

So it is not difficult to imagine the reluctance a bisexual man might feel to discuss this with his mate. I would think this reluctance would turn to fear if they are pretty straight living folks. If the wife has had limited exposure to those who live their lives with a "free spirited" attitude, his fear would include the absolute belief she lacked the foundation to even begin to deal with his bisexuality. And that as a result, she would be incapable of understanding, much less accepting of it. (And worse, would never view him in the same way ever again)

 

We think, if the communication gap is so wide, these folks shouldn't be married to each other. Since they are, they need to develop their communication. Fear has no place in a marriage, in our opinion, and the best way to face fear is head-on. He must tell his wife his "problem." ...or move to Paris.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Originally posted by Alura

We think, if the communication gap is so wide, these folks shouldn't be married to each other. Since they are, they need to develop their communication. Fear has no place in a marriage, in our opinion, and the best way to face fear is head-on. He must tell his wife his "problem." ...or move to Paris.

 

WE?

 

Fear is one of the foundations of marriage.

 

Opinion?

 

I agree with you on the rest tho.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Basically cheating is lying... whether by omission or by deceit. If you are having sex with anyone and not telling your spouse, then you are omitting the truth... therefore lying...therefore cheating.

[CABob 16]

Cheating is such an ugly word. But not knowing where your partners genitals have been is worse.

[sportync 20]

I would definitely have to agree with most of those who have replied to this thread.....if it's behind your partner's back, then it's cheating, plain and simple. Gender doesn't really have anything to do with it. If his wife caught him doing his goat, it would still be cheating. If it involves someone other than your partner and is done without their support and approval, then it's cheating. If it's done with their knowledge, but not their approval, then it's still cheating.

[Dionysis 15]

Originally posted by bear_n_bunny

Thanks for chiming in, as I am not a bisexual male in a traditional marriage I wasn't sure I was seeing the whole picture. But as someone on thread here said, take the gender out of the formula and it's cheating. However, I feel for bisexual men and women who don't feel safe telling their spouse; don't want to risk the marriage for what would amount to getting something their spouse can't give them. Still, I'd rather do without than do with dishonesty.

 

Umm, but that's not true. I'm pretty sure that's why a strap-on was invented.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Originally posted by Dionysis

Umm, but that's not true. I'm pretty sure that's why a strap-on was invented.

 

People don't choose to be bi. Saying that strap ons were invented for cheating bi people is like saying that dildos were invented for when hubby is in the army.

 

Bi people may not care for strap-on's number one. Maybe they actually like PEOPLE of the SAME sex sometimes. Now, I am not bi, but if I could be I WOULD. If it were choice I definitely would choose BI, because Id have twice as much fun.

 

No, strap-on's were invented for fun, not marital counseling alternatives...poking fun here.

[CABob 16]

Wait! How did the topic change from cheating to the pro and cons of strap-ons?

 

People, stop the madness!

 

Lies are garbage.

If you tell each other to many, the relationship stinks.

[Couple_DFW 15]

Regardless of the gender...if one partner doesn't know about it... we both agree that it is cheating.

 

And...good luck Bunny on that challenge of the male mind. Let me know if you even get close!!

[jen 16]

If you find yourself asking is this cheating? Then most likely it sets off flags inside you and will end up feeling like cheating even if you've convinced yourself that it isn't.

 

Or something.

 

[Michcouple 15]

If it's behind your partners back then it's cheating

[SyberG&C 15]

We agree cheating is when your partner doesn't know.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Originally posted by SyberG&C

We agree cheating is when your partner doesn't know

 

Is it cheating then to flirt at work? You both know it won't go anywhere and who can definitely define flirting?

 

Just trying to stir the pot.

[stonyo 15]

Here's another twist:

 

Who is cheating if 2 bi girls get together and one tells her hubby and the other doesn't? And the one who doesn't tell her hubby, tells the other girl not to tell her hubby either... so the girl who had already told her hubby tells the girl she won't tell her hubby.

 

Sorry if this is too confusing, but this has happened twice to us recently in different variations...

 

Once with the girl half of a couple we had both played with in the past.. and now the girl doesn't want the guys to play anymore, but my partner told me that the girls would like to play without the guys and the other girl just wants to keep it a secret. We are ok with girls only nite - but don't like the fact the other girl doesn't want her hubby to know. We tried to convince her he would be understanding, but she and her hubby just don't communicate like they should. In fact, we probably we should stop playing with them until they can get their act together!

 

The other time was a couple we have been "testing the waters" with but nothing has happened... til when the other couple was visiting our house the other girl took my wife to the bathroom to make out and my wife told me all about it afterwards (it was obvious something was going on to me), but the next day the girl called my wife and said don't tell your hubby... and my wife did not tell her ooops I've already told him, she just said ok.

[Alura 2,774]

Don't tell me anything you don't want Mrs. Alura to know.

 

The trouble with keeping secrets is remembering who isn't supposed to know.

 

The trouble with lies is remembering what you were supposed to have said.

 

It's all much too complicated for this simple hick Okie.

[TNT 1,155]

I agree with Mr. Alura...If you don't want both of us to know, don't tell either one of us.

 

If Ted's buddies knew that I know all their dirty little secrets (ones that their wives don't know ) they would probably never come over to the house again.

 

We tell each other EVERYTHING.

[yawanna 17]

I think that anything is cheating if you are doing something you know would put a rift between you and your partner.

 

If you can't or won't tell your partner, it's cheating. Online chats, flirting, anything.

 

And to Flori_DAMAN, we don't consider ourselves, as swingers, to be sexually monogamous...it's spiritual, emotional and intellectual monogamy that we have. Sex we share with others as we choose.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Originally posted by yawanna

 

And to Flori_DAMAN.. we don't consider ourselves, as swingers, to be sexually monogamous...it's spiritual, emotional and intellectual monogamy that we have. Sex we share with others as we choose

 

Monogamous is monogamous. The definition is sexual. A couple that is honest with each other need not fear sexual deception. You can have sex with others and that's fine, but by definition its not monogamy.

 

I like your thinking, but words and there definition need to be taken seriously. Monogamy is having sex with MONO...ONE.

 

Just a thought. The words are important. Swinging by definition is not monogamous. IT can be spiritually, physically and emotionally positive but it just ain't monogamy.

[yawanna 17]

"marriage to only one person"

 

But monogamy ain't the word defining sex or the limit of one sex partner.

 

Find and quote another dictionary definition....I'm curious

[alabamafuntonig 20]

Main Entry: mo·nog·a·my

Pronunciation: -mE

Function: noun

Etymology: French monogamie, from Late Latin monogamia, from Greek, from monogamos monogamous, from mon- + gamos marriage, from gamein to marry

Date: 1612

1 archaic : the practice of marrying only once during a lifetime

2 : the state or custom of being married to one person at a time

3 : the condition or practice of having a single mate during a period of time

 

 

Does not mention sex.

 

Now monogamous sex is sex with one person polygamous sex is sex with many people. poly = many

 

But sexually uplifting and spiritually is a term I disagree with on my level..but to each there own, it is all about choice!

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Originally posted by yawanna

"marriage to only one person"

 

But monogamy ain't the word defining sex or the limit of one sex partner.

 

Find and quote another dictionary definition....I'm curious

 

I stand corrected. Monogamy is having one partner for life. Nothing to do with sex. I always figured it had to do with sex.

[windsor4fun2 130]

Originally posted by Alura

The trouble with keeping secrets is remembering who isn't supposed to know.

 

The trouble with lies is remembering what you were supposed to have said.

 

Very well put. Very true as well.

[Couple_DFW 15]

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN

Is it cheating then to flirt at work? You both know it won't go anywhere and who can definitely define flirting?

 

Just trying to stir the pot.

 

 

Naw, flirting is just fun as long as it doesn't go anywhere. It's kinda like this - "It doesn't matter where you get your appetite as long as you come home to eat".

 

AND, don't tell either of us anything you don't want the other one to know, we don't keep secrets from one another. We may not always like what we are hearing, but at least it's been told and we don't have to worry about anything later.

[wrnakedru 38]

Several years ago, ex and I had a couple with whom we shared social and recreational times as well as the more intimate activities. The guys played as a team in golf tournaments, we ladies rode along in our own cart as "cheerleaders" [and the occasional distraction for the opposing team. ]

 

It was known by all 4 of us that some "separate" activity was indulged in by each on occasion. So when the male called me at work suggesting a noontime tryst (location-vehicular, due to limited time), I accepted without too much hesitation.

 

Afterwards, we drove back to my work location for him to drop me off to finish my workday. En route, he requested that I not inform my husband of the tryst. And that if I would agree, he would also not inform his wife. I was understandably puzzled by the request. So I asked "Why?" He explained that he missed the "thrill" of forbidden activity; the lifestyle and the consensual, open acceptance had removed a great deal of his enjoyment of the sexual activity itself. He wanted to know if I agreed. No, quite frankly, I did not. He asked if that meant I was going to tell my husband of our encounter. I told him I would not be at all comfortable with our activity being kept secret from either my husband or his wife. He shook his head, and told me, almost sadly, that my non-complicity meant that we would not "do this" again.

 

I told my husband of my noontime adventure, and also discussed the strange (I thought) request. My husband was not angered by it (as I had known he would not be)saying the two fellows had discussed this feeling of non-excitement the one was experiencing. My husband then reminded me of our friends behavior at a recent party; a large group of people were enjoying each other and themselves all in one play area. Our friend, after brief participation, had left the area to go to an adjacent room where a television screen was showing porn movie tapes. He spent the balance of his time, while others were "partying" nearby, standing and watching the screen while stroking himself.

 

I am still puzzled by our friends feelings and behavior. Have any others felt this way .... or encountered someone who did?

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by wrnakedru

En route, he requested that I not inform my husband of the tryst. And that if I would agree, he would also not inform his wife. I was understandably puzzled by the request. So I asked "Why?" He explained that he missed the "thrill" of forbidden activity; the lifestyle and the consensual, open acceptance had removed a great deal of his enjoyment of the sexual activity itself.

I have never experienced anything of that nature, but we did have an instance where the male half was trying to get too close to me, personally, which bothered me greatly.

 

From what you described, I don't understand why you would be asked not to relay it to your spouses. It was already agreed that you could play separately and you did so on a whim, so therefore in my eyes, the forbidden 'thrill' aspect was met (in a sense). Isn't telling your spouse about it, part of the fun too?

 

I would be very leery of anyone that made a request like that to me. Someone (I believe it was Alura) said something in another post to the affect of "Don't tell me anything that you don't want my spouse to know". I think that is a very important statement. When you start hiding things like that, there is trouble in paradise. Thanks, but no thanks, for this girl.

[OhioCouple 40]

As someone who was cheated on in her first marriage.... This is my experience.

 

The more he cheated, the more he accused me of doing so. Never mind that he was my first and only. Seven years later, I walked out the door and never looked back. One of the smartest moves I ever made in my life. With that said...

 

I abhor cheating of any sort. I don't care if it is physical, online or by phone, etc. I will not tolerate it. What we do, we do together and with the full knowledge of the other. Neither of us are into the online sexual talk and if flirtation occurs, both must be present. We keep one e-mail address strictly for swingers and we both read and share all mail and will save instant messages for the other to read, if we feel the other might need to look at it. The only people that get that address or IM information are those that we have BOTH grown to know and trust. Some have our personal addresses, but we each have access to those if either wants to go and read them. We hide nothing from each other, but allow ourselves privacy and trust that we will share anything that the other needs to know.

 

If either of us were to start online flirting, (without the knowledge and approval of the other) I would take that as a signal that our marriage was in deep trouble, the least of which would be the online flirting, as most likely our lack of communication went deeper than just that.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

When you have been cheated on it is so hard. I just don't understand why people do that to each other. Mrs. O, is fortunate to have a man that she is stable with. It will take a long time for me to find that again I know that.

 

I have broken a lot of bones. I have been stolen from. I have had horrible sickness. I suffered the death of my wife. But not to compare the last one, there is no pain like being cheated on.