HPV - Swinging's dirty little secret?

[Guest Unregistered]

My wife and I have only swung about 6 times total (with 4 different couples) and we've always used condoms for sex. Recently my wife had an abnormal pap and we discovered that she (we) has HPV and we're fairly sure we got it from swinging (since we've been monogamous for the previous 10 years).

 

Depending on who you ask, HPV seems to be present in about 25% to 80% of the general "sexually active" population.

 

Until recently there was NO test which could detect HPV, other than warts showing up or an abnormal pap smear for women. I haven't seen an STD test which tests for it.

 

HPV can incubate in a healthy person for years without ever showing signs - even though the person is still "contagious".

 

HPV is apparently extremely easy to transmit. Condoms will not stop it from spreading.

 

So I have two questions:

 

1) Given this, you could have HPV and not know it. Is it expected that most swingers have it? I would think that if it was present in 80% of the general population that it would be present in even more of the swinger population. In that case, is it one of those things where it's just not talked about (everyone assumes everyone has it)? Or does everyone really think they don't have it?

 

2) Are my wife and I "done"? At this point we're pretty much assuming that we are, since I expect that although most swingers have been exposed to it they don't realize and so they wouldn't want to swing with people who have it. (Either that or we'll have to get a red "HPV" sticker made up for our foreheads for when we go to clubs...)

[St. Augustine 20]

(Cathy)

 

Showing my innocence here but what is HPV??

[ga_cpl_frknit 17]

Here is a simple question/answer website about HPV.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/stds-hiv-safer-sex/hpv

 

And don't feel bad, I had to look it up too.

 

~Tracy~

[St. Augustine 20]

(Cathy)

 

Thanks for the link... very informative!

[LadyCleo 16]

It is VERY possible that she did NOT get it from swinging and had it prior. It is a virus that can have a long latency period. It is also a VERY common virus. In fact, I believe that more than 80% of the population could be affected (but don't quote me on that).

 

I have 2 close girlfriends that have been diagnosed with cervical cancer due to HPV. Neither are in the lifestyle and neither have had more than a handful of partners nor have their partners had more than a handful. What I am trying to say is, if those 2 ladies with their limited sexual experience (and that of their partners) can get it, then it's a safe bet, to me anyway, that it is a VERY common virus and not much to worry about.

 

But, that's my $0.02.

[Fire_and_Air 17]

We've touched on a little of this in one of the other threads about herpes. Here's a question... if HPV (warts) is just that, warts, can't someone give it to themself... ie, if you have a wart on your hand, then touch yourself or someone else via bathing or sex, can't you transmit warts to your nether regions and therefore become diagnosed with genital warts?

[TealCobra 15]

Quote

Originally posted by LadyCleo

What I am trying to say is, if those 2 ladies with their limited sexual experience (and that of their partners) can get it, then it's a safe bet, to me anyway, that it is a VERY common virus and not much to worry about.

 

But, that's my $0.02

 

Don't take this the wrong way but HOW can you say that is not much to worry about? For men, HPV IME is not much to worry about. However, HPV can cause cervical cancer in women! That's a problem. Obviously its much easier for a woman to pass this on to men b/c they may actually have no visible warts due to them being "hidden." I also read an article a while back that stated the presence of HPV may actually cause oral cancer for those giving oral to the infected. Don't know about that one but i guess anything is possible.

 

Unfortunately i speak from experience as i was exposed to a person who was very dishonest about 3 years ago. My wife and I were separated and i got together w/a very promiscuous girl and had unprotected sex (my fault). It took about 9 months for visible warts to show up. Pretty quick if you ask me considering HPV may not become visible for up to 10 years!

 

Needless to say that was a very difficult thing to go through w/my wife as we reconciled shortly after a 5 month split. Another concern to consider is child birth for women who have HPV. Because women may develop warts on their cervix it can cause problems during childbirth which may force a C-section birth. The thing that scares me is that it is possible to pass this virus on to the unborn child.

 

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade but from what i have gathered, this virus is out there and infecting many more people than we know. Unfortunately you have to do research to find out about it. I didn't know it even existed until after i had contracted it.

 

There are so many different strains of HPV and don't expect any kind of cure in the future. You may be able to get rid of the presence of warts but will always be a carrier. That sucks for me b/c my fantasies of 3-somes and/or swaps will never be realized.

[BettyAnnMBSC 24]

Human Papillomavirus (HPV) has been reported by various studies to be present in between 65% and 95% of the adult population in general. It is generally accepted to be a sexually transmitted virus.

 

Since it is a virus and virii are poorly understood (by comparison to other pathogens); there is great division of information out there... Since there is no generally accepted blood test available for detection, any opinion of infection rates is just a guess...

 

There are many many types of HPV. Some are known to be a predictor of cervical cancer, most are not. The cancer concern is primarily that of women and the cervix. Regular pap smears are very important!!!

 

Some forms of HPV have also been implicated in external genital warts.

 

When the virus is inactive -- it may or may not be contagious.

 

A positive impression of HPV does not indicate a positive test for either genital warts or cervical cancer or cell change. While warts on the hands and other parts are often caused by a form of HPV -- that same form does not cause genital warts.

 

Many professionals feel that transmission orally is not likely. There are no blood tests available to diagnose a person for HPV. The diagnosis is made by physical examination and medical impression.

 

It is possible to develop an immunity to HPV -- in that an infection of the same type will not generally recurr.

 

Most professionals agree that a past histopry of genital warts or HPV are not contraindicators in pregnancy. A cesarian section is not indicated solely on that basis. Active genital warts are a different matter altogether.... They may be a cause for concern.

 

This all said -- if only 50% of couples are 100% momgomous -- and 80%+ of all adults are HPV positive -- it's not possible at all that this is entirely a sexually transmitted condition (a thesis shared by very few professionals). We should though consider that HPV is not the same as cervical cancer or genital warts. An very simplified anology being that all German Shepards (gen. warts) are dogs (HPV) -- not all dogs (HPV) are German Shephards (gen. warts).

 

Since it is a virus (as is the common cold, pneumonia, and HIV) there is no cure in sight. Only treatment....

 

If you have true and real concerns, speak with your physician....

[incommunicado 228]

I have heard that there is no cure, but that it can go away on its own (1-2 years and you are considered "in remission"). But, does that mean remission like herpes, where the virus is always there, or in remission like cancer where it can go away and never come back again?

 

Also, if it can lay dormant on the cervix for up to 20 years, how does it just go away a few years after manifesting.

 

 

[TealCobra 15]

Originally posted by incommunicado

I have heard that there is no cure, but that it can go away on its own (1-2 years and you are considered "in remission"). But, does that mean remission like herpes, where the virus is always there, or in remission like cancer where it can go away and never come back again?

 

Also, if it can lay dormant on the cervix for up to 20 years, how does it just go away a few years after manifesting.

 

There is no cure. If you heard that it can "go away," i think the general thought is that if there are no visible signs of the virus. That does not mean that a person doesn't have it or can or cannot give it to another person. So yes you could say that it can go into remission like Herpes as far as the visual indicators are concerened. Last i checked, there isn't even a test for this virus. It is generally accepted to be the cause of genital warts and thus the association.

[alabamafuntonig 20]

to all who disbelieve...it is not a hoax, look it up.

 

hpv link

 

and there are 10,000 more links on yahoo or google to check out. With a little bit of knowledge we all can learn...unless ya wanna just say it is a hoax because some other swing site posted the same?...wait you think maybe its part of a global conspiracy to...

[incommunicado 228]

My wife's doctor is the head of the Dyspareunia and Vulvar Pain Center at Johns Hopkins and this is his sub-specialty. Here is their web site...

 

https://www.pelvicurecenter.com/

 

Prior to meeting with him, we were upsetting ourselves with partial and misinformation from this and other sites. All I can say is, if you don't have a specialist, get one. It helps a lot! Our meeting was very enlightening.

 

No, there is no vaccine for HPV, but it does eventually go away completely. Not Herpes remission, go away, but completely gone like you got over the flu, go away. Usually in about 8 months max, with a 30% minority hanging onto it a little longer. Put simply, if it's undetectable, it's not there (unlike Herpes, which is there but dormant). In the mean time, it's possible to have no symptoms. And, generally, reoccurrence is infrequent.

 

There are actual tests for both men and women, though they are seldom used unless symptoms are showing. An abnormal pap smear does not mean you have HPV, but it can suggest that your doctor test for it.

 

Yes, there are potentially serious symptoms to HPV ranging from warts and lesions to cervical abnormalities and cancer in women. But, not all HPV infections are high risk and not all high risk infections cause abnormalities.

 

It is NOT always sexually transmitted. You can easily get it from a toilet seat, a hot tub or some similar situation. (this is from the nurse manager who just came back from a symposium).

 

Condoms are 80% effective for protecting men, but not woman because the virus can linger on the scrotum and areas around the penis that could come in contact with vaginal tissue.

 

People have got to stop treating this like it is a lifelong disease with the same stigma, as herpes or HIV, with support groups and

closed circle dating. Yes, there are serious health risks that need to be monitored while you've got it (for women), and you may want to think twice about who you sleep with for a while, but you are not condemned to a life of celibacy or sex with only HPV infected individuals.

 

Now, this does beg the question of making FULL protection in swinging, including dental dams for oral sex, mandatory.

 

It's ironic that we have not problems with condoms to prevent pregnancy or disease, but putting latex or plastic wrap over a woman (or man) for oral sex, somehow implies that they are dirty.

[Karina 15]

I have done quite a bit of research on HPV also. Since there is no method of prevention (besides abstinance combined with no genital area-to-genital area touching), the next best option is detection after-the-fact. Women should visit their gynocologists at least once of year, and if they are having problems, then twice per year. HPV is the leading cause of cervical cancer.

 

TWO METHODS OF DETECTION OF CERVICAL PROBLEMS:

 

The Pap Smear -- This is the test most people have heard of and most health clinics use to screen for cervical problems (ie: cervical cancer) in women. It is a very inexpensive screening tool, and that is all it is, a screening tool. If this test comes back as 'positive' (which indicates some sort of abnormality of the cervix), then the doctor will determine what tests to run to determine why the Pap Smear was 'positive'.

 

It is not a perfect screening tool, because the cervial cells are smeared onto a slide, dried, and sent to a laboratory. Amongst those dried cells is mucous, sometimes blood, and anything else that is inside the vagina at that time. As a result, the lab tech sometimes does not have a very good sample of cells to view.

 

Thin Prep Pap Test -- This is a newer screening tool. I learned about this in 1997. (I interviewed to be a sales rep for this company, and I researched it thoroughly.) It more accurately assesses the cervical cells than the Pap Smear by collecting cervical cells with a swab and placing them in solution inside a vial which is sent to a lab. The solution washes off any debris from the cells and also prevents the cells from drying out (and becoming distorted). And if needed, the lab technicians can create more than one slide, since the vial contains MANY cervical cells; the tech can create several slides to evaluate the integrity of the cervical cells to rule out false-negative or false-positive results.

 

The Thin Prep Pap Test is a little more expensive than the Pap Smear, but it may only cost about $30 or so. Your insurance carrier may not pay for it, but you can. It is your health. Again, this is only a screening tool, and if your result is 'positive', your doctor should perform additional testing to determine what may be the problem.

 

I hope this helps.

[DeesireCpl 15]

Thanks so much for that information will pass it along to others.

[highlander 21]

Looks like this disease is a bit like herpes-it has both an STD component and a non-STD component.

 

HPV is considered a sexually transmitted disease, but common warts--those not involving the sexual organs--can be spread through skin contacts such as shaking hands. In one study, the DNA of HPV was found in about 20% of virgins.

[NorCal Nites 15]

 

Quote

Originally posted by ***Unregistered***

Recently my wife had an abnormal pap and we discovered that she (we) has HPV and we're fairly sure we got it from swinging (since we've been monogamous for the previous 10 years).

 

That's, I'm sorry to say, the biggest crock of crap that she "got it from swinging".

 

Hell, who's to say who YOU don't know about in her past even... according to the following website, THE HPV TEST 75+% of SEXUALLY ACTIVE people have been infected. This is not "swinging's dirty little secret", but really something that's been around for years and 3 out of every 4 people have it... maybe YOU gave it to HER??? Who have YOU been with in the past? Who was YOUR first? How about High School??? Hell... I'm sure neither YOU, nor SHE, nor ANY OF US will ever know where she got it... but with you in the mindset that "it must be from swinging", then maybe you shouldn't be in the lifestyle if you are in the frameset that it must have done this to her.

 

And I always thought that the people that play are more educated on these things than the average... I guess not.

[funrealcouple 15]

I think this these posts about HPV should be made to stay at the top of the list. People should see this before they start swinging.

[incommunicado 228]

We've all repeated the statistics. Bottom line, it seems that most people have had a strain of HPV at some point in their lives, whether they knew it or not, and those that haven't have a near 100% chance of getting it.

 

In reality, it's so prevalent that it's really more like the bacteria that's normally resident in our bodies, but it will, most likely, never be treated with that level of acceptance. So, why does it still feel so dirty, like Herpes or Syphilis etc.? It's funny that no one knows what it is, but once they do, and they know it can be sexually transmitted, there's that stigma.

 

So I offer to the group... given HPV's prevalence, does this mean that those diagnosed should stop swinging for the requisite 8 months or so that it usually takes to leave your system, and then retest? Or do we use protection (for what little good it will do) and assume that everyone who swings even semi-regularly probably has it or is destined to get it?

[funrealcouple 15]

So I offer to the group... given HPV's prevalence, does this mean that those diagnosed should stop swinging for the requisite 8 months or so that it usually takes to leave your system, and then retest? Or do we use protection (for what little good it will do) and assume that everyone who swings even semi-regularly probably has it or is destined to get it?

 

My question exactly! Maybe we need a poll.

 

If you have it would you tell your swing partners?

 

If you swing and don't have it (that you know of) would you expect your swing partners to tell you?

[whtnblkdelight 15]

Thank you to all those who posted valuable information on this thread....

[Karina 15]

Since HPV is a virus, it never leaves your system...not after 8 months, not after 5 years. If your immune system is strong enough, it may possibly never express itself again after the initial outbreak (if you have one of the few strains which shows visible warts). It does not 'come out' as easily as herpes in response to stress.

 

The CDC has good information on HPV

 

I feel anyone entering into swinging should become educated with ways to stay healthy before undertaking. I would want to know if a potential partner I am meeting has anything...of course, then I'd have to decide if it was worth the risk for me.

 

Karina

[moulinmomma 15]

I tested positive for cervical dysplasia (HPV) two years ago. I just went in for a regular pap and the cells came back abnormal. Precancerous cells on the ol' cervix. I was pregnant so I had to wait a while for treatment. I had a surgery done where they burn the cells off.

 

6 weeks later my paps came back completely normal with no signs of HPV. I had no actual warts, just the abnormal cells. Now did the surgery cure it? Who knows?

 

All I know is the surgery worked for me and I have not had a abnormal pap since. We do tell couples we meet and they don't trip out about it. Just because at one time it was there ya know? I freaked out when I first got my results too and combed the net for info. But it is so common and so easy to get. Anyway I have no real reassurances or "scientific" data to add, just wanted to tell my story and maybe it could help your wife a bit.

[Karina 15]

From what I've learned/researched (I work in the medical field), once you have HPV (human papilloma virus) in your system, it stays in your body the rest of your life. It may never be visible or show up as warts, especially if your immune system is strong, but you can still be contagious if the virus becomes 'live' again. And the only way to know if it's 'live' is to collect a tissue sample and have it tested, which probably most people won't do.

 

The best thing women can do is to have regular (annual) Pap smears. The ideal time to get a Pap smear is 2 weeks after your period to allow for the most accurate reading.

[Nikosanpo 15]

I currently show no signs, but does that mean I should give up sex for the risk of possibly having caught HPV from swinging?

[Spoomonkey 421]

Nikosanpo said:

I currently show no signs, but does that mean I should give up sex for the risk of possibly having caught HPV from swinging?

 

If you are concerned about it - get tested.

 

If that doesn't put your mind at rest - try monogamy.

[Dr Jekyll 15]

Spoomonkey said:

If you are concerned about it - get tested.

 

If that doesn't put your mind at rest - try monogamy.

 

I'd just like to add... If you're really concerned about getting HPV and want to avoid it, you should really not be swinging. In fact you should not be having vanilla sex with anyone for approximately 10 years to make sure you are in the smallest risk group... And then when you get the chance to finally jump him/her, you still have a significant risk of getting HPV.

 

With a virus so common you really must stay celibate not to be exposed to it at some stage...

[EvilMJ 65]

Having been through the cancer scare just recently I think it is important to note that just becuase you have an abnormal result from you pap test that inidcates cervical changes, do not automatically assume that it is HPV. While it does tend to occur in many cases, there are other factors that casue the changes that are compeltely unrelated to HPV.

 

My doctored discussed HPV with me and I was surprised to learn how prevelent it is in the population, and to refer to it as a swingers disesase would be completley inaccurate. You can get HPV by being with only one person your whole life (as you can with any sexually transmitted disease really).

 

There are always dangers to being sexually active, whether it is with the same person for the rest of your life, or with many partners. It is up to each of us to learn about what those dangers are, how to protect yourself and how far you are willing to go.

 

Knowing what I do about HPV and other disesase I stil chose to swing. That is my decision but I made it based on learning all I could first.

[kittylikesmfm 16]

I am a nurse and I actually did a big research project on HPV. This is great information on this thread, acurate. Bascially bottom line is you have to accept not only the risk of outbreaks, but also the increased risk of cervical cancer for women if you are going to swing. Knowledge of HPV is what kept my mfm, ffm fantasies on the back burner for years..lol...but I've decided in my personal situation the risk is worth the reward. But this is important information every sexually active, non monogomous person needs to be aware of. And as an aside, syphilis is on the rise in the southeast and some northern and western ports as well.

[us4u__u4us 15]

What do you do if you have an outbreak? And is it really that easy to clear it up? Don't really know much about this and we're newbies to the swinging community. It seems like to me even if we choose only to be with each other than we're probably gonna get this or already have it (cuz neither one of us are saints lol).

[kittylikesmfm 16]

Sometimes it does 'clear up' but you're always a carrier...it functions just like herpes...they are both viruses (men will often have outbreaks in the perineal or anal area).

 

But sometimes the virus becomes so bad, it has to be removed cryogenically (similar to 'burning' off other warts with nitrogen).

 

It's not something to take lightly, but at the same time if you are educated and know the risks, it's just kind of a part of modern sex since the carrier rates are so high.

[dragonblade 27]

Ok, I REALLY feel the need to comment on this thread. I am a CNA and worked in a OB/GYN for 2 years. Needless to say, I have quite a bit of knowledge on this subject. I feel the need to make some clarifications. Bear with me, as I didn't completely go thru this thread, reason being is I saw so many miscommunications I needed to sort this out and state the facts and then answer any subsequent questions. So here we go......

 

HPV known scientifically as human papilloma virus is indeed an STD. Most of the general population doesn't realize it indeed affects about 80% of the population. The biggest thing to realize is that because it can incubate for even up to 20 or more years, the bottom line is, if you've had more than one partner, then you don't know where you got it from. It could be your high school sweetheart, or the couple you met up with 3 months ago...you'll never know.

 

As far as HPV causing cancer, it needs to be understood that there are thousands of different strains of HPV. Doctors categorize pap results into many groups...as follows

 

Normal : enough said.

 

ASCUS: Atypical Squamous Cells of Undetermined Significance- That means that there is something different to make it not quite normal. In other words, after giving birth, it is more likely to get this result at the follow up because of the high hormones. It's also likely if you're at the end of your period, if you had sex the night before....there can be anything, but usually it isn't malignant or anything of the sort...they'll call for a retest.

 

CIN I: this is low grade abnormal cells. Usually (especially with younger women) this will self resolve. Usually, the patient will be watched to see if anything progresses.

 

CIN II: mid-grade abnormal cells, more serious, and the doctor will a lot of times call for a colposcopy to be done...it's just a tissue sample of the cervix to see if it's possibly malignant.

 

CIN III: High grade abnormal cells...this is what is most serious. It does not mean you absolutely have cancer!! It means you very well may just need to be watched more closely. It's a progression...

 

Don't forget that cancer (cervical) takes YEARS to develop. There are very few strains of HPV that are cancer causing...most doctors err on the side of caution when treating, as if it *could* cause cancer but it very well may not... I know for me, I'd rather have the procedures and be safe, wouldn't you?

 

Here is the biggest thing of importance that I've seen in this thread. HPV is NOT herpes. Herpes is a different thing all together. Also known as Herpes Simplex Virus 1 and Herpes Simplex Virus 2. I can see where it'd be so easy to confuse HSV with HPV

 

Herpes simplex 1 is also known as cold sores. Where blisters form on the lips, and is a virus that stays with you for life.

 

Herpes simplex 2 is most commonly known as genital warts. They are not caused by HPV, but by a mutation of HSV. And yes, type one can be transmitted as type 2 and vice versa...in other words, if you have a cold sore and go down on your SO you can give them Herpes, but HPV is not the cause of these things.

 

It is true, the only methodology of finding HPV that I know of is the pap smear, and so LADIES!! Go get your annual exam done yearly!! HSV however can be tested for if any warts show up...they can not be transmitted thru contact with other warts. What I mean by that is: if you have a wart on your hand, and you touch your wife, she's not going to get herpes! It's not the same simplex group, therefore won't happen.

 

I really felt the need to clear all this up, as it really bothers me when people have these notions that just aren't true! Of course, as always if you have any other questions you can go to your gyno. Or message me lol...I always strive to help where I can.

 

I really hope this helped, and didn't offend anyone Surrender . You guys are so great after all!

[kittylikesmfm 16]

It's great that you wanted to cut and paste a lot of relative information, but i think you'll find if you read the other posts in this thread closely, everyone had already said what you posted only in layman's terms. Not sure where you saw that someone equated herpes with hpv...only that they were both viruses and have latent phases.

[Guest nEw2ItFL]

With HPV most of the strains are asymptomatic. Then there are a few strains which cause genital warts and a couple that are actually linked to an increase in cancerous cells of the cervix. There is some good news regarding the strains which cause cervical cancer. A vaccine has been developed to protect against those strains..they will become available late 2006 to early 2007. From that point they will most probably become a highly recommended or required vaccine for females ages 9 and over.

 

Also ladies...when you go in for your annual pap you can request an HPV test at that point versus waiting to see if your pap is abnormal.

[T & K 4 Fun 15]

Just found out we have HPV. Pretty shocking that they can't test for such a common disease, especially when we went to get tested and came up clean recently. Anyone in the same boat as us care to talk about it? Please PM us. Thanks.