A Question for Christian Swingers

[TwoSexyMI 151]

Raised as a Christian or at least raised to believe in God whether a religious family or not so much....how do you justify being in the lifestyle?

 

Is it hypocritical at all? I only ask because I know it goes against many of the Bible's ways, and knowingly committing a "sin" over and over and then asking for forgiveness seems like it would be difficult to navigate as far as my conscious is concerned.

 

On the other hand, so many ways of the Bible are not abided by anyway, such as living together before marriage, sex before marriage, etc.... Both of which are pretty much expected and openly accepted in the United States.

 

I grew up going to church as a kid but my house was not religious. I haven't attended church much as an adult but I do pray daily and believe in God...

 

 

Just wondering how others have handled this.

 

Thanks,

Mrs.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,024]

These discussion threads might interest you:

 

Christian Swingers

 

Threesomes, and Christian views regarding threesomes?

 

Christian Swingers - Share Your Feelings

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

I was raised Catholic, but it's not something I've ever practiced as an adult. However, I do have a personal relationship with God that acts as a kind of lodestar, providing a moral and ethical framework to my life. In addtition, God has always felt like a loving presence rather than a punitive one and I have always felt beloved. The Bible, while I find it interesting and well worth reading through every decade or so, has no particular spiritual significance for me. Also, I believe the amazing physical pleasure of sex is a gift from God.

 

Sorry for the long story, but I wanted to give the background to this: I truly believe that the frequent "Oh, God!" cries during sex are meant and are heard as prayers. Ergo, no conflict at all between swinging and my spiritual beliefs.

[km34 672]

I am Christian in the Christ-like sense, not the organized religion sense. I've never felt hypocritical engaging in any kind of ethical nonmonogamy. As long as I am not lying, cheating, trying to seduce people who don't have a relationship on the open side, and sticking to the other principles that generally make me a good person, I feel very okay with my decisions.

[slevin 1,374]

I am Christian in the Christ-like sense, not the organized religion sense. I've never felt hypocritical engaging in any kind of ethical nonmonogamy. As long as I am not lying, cheating, trying to seduce people who don't have a relationship on the open side, and sticking to the other principles that generally make me a good person, I feel very okay with my decisions.

 

Exactly how I feel. Well said.

[GspotDPlover 84]

The responses on this thread are typical. Most professing a Jefferson Christianity while pursueing Ben Franklin's interests. Christian theology is so diverse, confused, and other unfortunate adjectives that it is possible to put any activity into right or wrong categories depending on your references. I am a Christian and one who has studied its sources and believed it most of my life. Jesus only addressed adultry as wrong (that is cheating or even thinking of cheating on your spouse) within the cultural framework of Judaism. Jesus does call everyone to follow him and be holy--in no way is sex said to be unholy. Yet, we are all lust driven to some extent (God help me I think I am a walking penis sometimes!) and sex has been demonized for centuries by the Roman church and all following it that some of us grow-up feeling that all sex is wrong on some level. While forced or unwanted celibacy leads to all sorts of sexually abusive monsters. "Be fruitful and mutliply" in fact blesses sex as a joy since it is the drive, desire, act of creation. Well, look at that, writing about theology on a swing forum, how interesting. Anyway, this could go on and has many digressions but, in short, I will not say swinging is right or wrong, just that if the worst thing you intentional do of a morally questionable nature is have a wild sex life with several people, God bless you!

 

Oh, one thing and this has been the greatest error of liberal theology for a few centuries now. Saying God is Love or a Loving Presence is a pitiful and delusional divine construction. God is Love but not only Love. The God of the Bible is also Creator, Judge, Redeemer, and many more names. The Judeo-Christian is God--infinite and undefinable. Also keep in mind that divine Love (GK: agape) is beyond and thus not the same as romantic or sexual love (GK: eros). They unfortunately share the same word in English.

[TwoSexyMI 151]

km34 said:

I am Christian in the Christ-like sense, not the organized religion sense. I've never felt hypocritical engaging in any kind of ethical nonmonogamy. As long as I am not lying, cheating, trying to seduce people who don't have a relationship on the open side, and sticking to the other principles that generally make me a good person, I feel very okay with my decisions.

Thank you. This is kind of how I am too, as far as organized religion goes.

 

 

mauijanedoe said:

I was raised Catholic, but it's not something I've ever practiced as an adult. However, I do have a personal relationship with God that acts as a kind of lodestar, providing a moral and ethical framework to my life. In addition, God has always felt like a loving presence rather than a punitive one and I have always felt beloved. The Bible, while I find it interesting and well worth reading through every decade or so, has no particular spiritual significance for me. Also, I believe the amazing physical pleasure of sex is a gift from God.

 

.

This is pretty much how I feel.

Being now to the idea of inviting anyone else into our bedroom, just recently Talking about it with my husband and doing our research, I was not sure where all if this fell, or whether not had any correlation at all.

Perhaps it doesn't have to. Perhaps it doesn't need to be classified at all. I believe I am a good, kind person, and I do not harm others. Maybe this is enough in God's eyes.

 

I agree with what was said about being open with one's spouse, and not being deceiving or lying.

 

Thank you all for your responses. I will check out the links.

[JM153 346]

I feel those that say that God is the creator and created us in his own image cannot then turn around and say EXCEPT for the urge to be non monogamous. If God created us with a sex drive and a desire for multiple partners, which is undeniably true for many, then he/she did not intend for us to be monogamous. They can not logically have it both ways. I do agree that the Bible teaches us to not cheat and lie and this is not in conflict with responsible swinging.

[cplnuswing 4,713]

mauijanedoe said:

I was raised Catholic, but it's not something I've ever practiced as an adult. However, I do have a personal relationship with God that acts as a kind of lodestar, providing a moral and ethical framework to my life. In addtition, God has always felt like a loving presence rather than a punitive one and I have always felt beloved. The Bible, while I find it interesting and well worth reading through every decade or so, has no particular spiritual significance for me. Also, I believe the amazing physical pleasure of sex is a gift from God.

 

TwoSexyMI said:

Perhaps it doesn't have to. Perhaps it doesn't need to be classified at all. I believe I am a good, kind person, and I do not harm others. Maybe this is enough in God's eyes.

 

I agree with what was said about being open with one's spouse, and not being deceiving or lying.

 

Pretty much where I came from and where I am am at, although as I have gotten older, there has been a steady progression towards an agnostic viewpoint. I really don't even know which label to apply to myself anymore, but am totally ok with that.

 

The question of the existence of God aside, there is no doubt that I have become more convinced that my personal conflicts with organized religion are valid ones, and not simply a mental defense mechanism to help rationalize differences in what religion tells me how I should believe and act and what I actually do in that regard.

 

Regarding the religion vs. sex question, I think it is without argument that man has used religion as a very useful tool to achieve less than pure motives throughout time, namely power, control, money. After survival, the next strongest human drive is sex. So, if you are able to harness that energy in some way, then you have a very powerful hammer to wield to achieve your objectives. Make people feel guilty about sex and convince them the way to relieve that guilt is through the program that only you can offer, then you are going to have some willing participants to help you achieve whatever your latest goal is, whether that be more money in the coffers, conquering another region, or fighting against another group you perceive as a threat to your status.

[Chicup 41]

If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel. 23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

(Deuteronomy 22:22-24)

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

(Matthew 5:28)

For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.

(Matthew 15:19)

Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.

(Romans 13:13)

Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.

(1 Corinthians 6:18)

3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: 4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; 5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

(1 Thessalonians 4:3-5)

"Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

(Hebrews 13:4)

In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

(Jude 7)

 

I'm going to have to be the Debbie Downer. I'm not sure how anyone can read the bible and pretend that swinging would be an accepted practice.

 

This one might as well be ANY swing party...

 

Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.

 

What most people do, is come to their own logical conclusions, which is swinging doesn't seem to hurt anyone and they want to do it, and then adapt the religion to fit their wants. Now this is not a condemnation, but lets all be intellectually honest with ourselves, swinging is NOT a Christian activity.

 

I have my own opinions that if there is a God such an entity of the creation of the universe is not going to worry about what we eat, wear, or put our naughty bits, but my view is definitely not Christian

[Alura 2,774]

I was raised by a half-breed Cherokee and a daughter of a Pentacostal preacher & sharecropper. I chose the Native American philosophy. Even though I can't say I really believe that Spider Woman emerged from the Underworld and taught the Navajos how to weave and other things, I do have a reverence for Mother Earth and Father Sky, who are sexual beings. (I find it unfortunate that Father Sky never has the opportunity to enjoy Mother Earth riding cowgirl...)

 

As far as Jesus is concerned, he said almost nothing about sex and certainly never presented it as a sin. Historical research shows that he probably had a sexual relationship with Mary Magdelene; very likely they were married and produced at least one son.

 

The idea of sexual sin was introduced by Saul of Tarsus in his many letters to Christian Groups. Saul (or the unbefitting name Saint Paul) had the idea that God was extremely pissed off that his only son had been crucified and would soon, probably no later than tomorrow, destroy the world. Some historians suggest Saul was ugly, misshapen (perhaps a dwarf with a hunched back) and certainly not the sort of fellow women sought out as a sexual partner. Perhaps, for that reason, he displayed a lot of misogeny. Certainly, he felt that followers had no time for sex. They needed to be concentrating on avoiding hell by making peace with an angry God.

 

When the Roman emperor Constantine decided Christianity should become the official religion of the Roman Empire, he ordered the Council of Nicaea (A.D. 325) to assemble a bible. It's hard to understand why they chose to include the writings they declared "Holy" because Saul's were included but Mary Magdelene's were omitted. Saul never met Jesus but Mary Magdelene was his closest companion for years!

 

Don't let the Bible determine your moral standards. The end product did not encompass Jesus' teachings.

 

Alura

[Alura 2,774]

If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel. 23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

(Deuteronomy 22:22-24)

 

The fifth book of the old testament, Deuteronomy preceeded Jesus by hundreds or thousands of years.

 

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

(Matthew 5:28)

 

Most religions frowned on adultery and still do. So do swingers.

 

For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.

(Matthew 15:19)

 

Who can argue with any of these? Well, "sexual immorality" is probably a bit vague. The Book of Matthew was almost certainly edited by the Council of Nicaea.

 

Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.

(Romans 13:13)

 

Where would Christianity be today if Saul of Tarsus had not gotten ill on the road to Damascus? "Pray, don't waste time with sex!"

 

Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.

(1 Corinthians 6:18)

 

Saul of Tarsus wrote this. Jesus never said anything like it.

 

3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: 4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; 5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

(1 Thessalonians 4:3-5)

 

Saul again. See what I mean about antisexuality coming from him?

 

"Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

(Hebrews 13:4)

 

Saul wrote this, too. Marriage should be honored. It's hard to find a group who honors it more than swingers.

 

In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

(Jude 7)

 

It's much more likely that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by an earthquake that hit the area simultaneously with the eruption of a volcano in the Mediterranean. Lot, Abraham's nephew, his wife and daughters are said to have escaped but Mrs. Lot was turned into a pillar of salt because she looked back. It's more likely that she was killed in the earthquake. A widower, the daughters got Lot drunk and seduced him in order to provide him with sons. God didn't seem overly displeased.

 

Alura

[Chicup 41]

I won't argue if Paul had his own agenda in the Gospels because I think he did.

 

My main concept here is that people will reject that which they feel themselves to be false. Most are not fundamentalists. The difference is the degree with which ones diverges from accepted cannon. In the end it comes down to peoples personal view of their religion. I honestly feel that religion is not a major impediment to swinging directly but its a place to pause when ones own fear and hang ups would come out. When people are mentally compiling their "should we swing, should we not swing" lists I think religion is one of those things where it becomes an excuse to hold back from something potentially scary, though the real reason they are choosing to not swing has nothing to do with "offending god".

 

In a nutshell I don't think there are many couples who are all gung-ho to swing but hold back because of religion. I think its couples that are tentative about swinging and want something to give either a green or red light.

[Alura 2,774]

I won't argue if Paul had his own agenda in the Gospels because I think he did.

 

My main concept here is that people will reject that which they feel themselves to be false. Most are not fundamentalists. The difference is the degree with which ones diverges from accepted cannon. In the end it comes down to peoples personal view of their religion. I honestly feel that religion is not a major impediment to swinging directly but its a place to pause when ones own fear and hang ups would come out. When people are mentally compiling their "should we swing, should we not swing" lists I think religion is one of those things where it becomes an excuse to hold back from something potentially scary, though the real reason they are choosing to not swing has nothing to do with "offending god".

 

In a nutshell I don't think there are many couples who are all gung-ho to swing but hold back because of religion. I think its couples that are tentative about swinging and want something to give either a green or red light.

 

I think you're right, Chicup, but I find it sad that people would let a miscreant (my opinion) like Saul of Tarsus fuck up their minds and tranquility.

 

I talked with Twenty-three, my favorite Latin Scholar, who has studied the Council of Nicaea extensively. His opinion is that Constantine's "marching orders" were that the end product not vary too much from Roman moral code held when Jupiter and his gang ran things. The Roman government's control was to be an important part. The Roman people couldn't be allowed too much leeway.

 

Alura

[Partyperks847 123]

Ok, I thought my comments might be a tad out of line, but I see mine are mild by comparison....so here goes

Christianity is a cafeteria faith.....take what you like and ignore the rest., which is fine, so long as that is acknowledged by the faithful.

 

Alura...as for Constantine, you are too generous, his marching orders were for a finished product that allowed commerce on Saturdays in the eastern provinces. All of the rest of the stew was a composite of patchwork of Neo Hebrew cults that some mistakenly call "the early christian church. "christian" was in fact, derogatory, and the word is found only three times in the entire new testament, twice by "anti Christians" (in Antioch and by Agrippa) and once by Peter trying to "reclaim" the word

 

As for Paul, he made it up as he went along and if he got too much pushback, he hedged and backed down. A great example was his demands to the Corinthians that women cover their head while praying, unless they chose to be contentious, in which case...never-mind

 

For all these reasons and more, we will never know what Jushua Bin Yosef (Jesus) would have thought about swinging, or anything else for that matter

 

PS...if you read carefully...the story of Sodom and Gomorrah says the cities were destroyed not because of sins of the flesh or homosexuality, but because they turned away travelers in need.

[Partyperks847 123]

I feel those that say that God is the creator and created us in his own image cannot then turn around and say EXCEPT for the urge to be non monogamous. If God created us with a sex drive and a desire for multiple partners, which is undeniably true for many, then he/she did not intend for us to be monogamous. They can not logically have it both ways. I do agree that the Bible teaches us to not cheat and lie and this is not in conflict with responsible swinging.

 

If God created man in his own image, than God is a 2 foot primate with opposable thumbs who lives in a tree and he did it 7 million years ago. Those proto humans (our ancestors) of the African rain forest turned savanna could not have cared less about monogamy.

[Alura 2,774]

What a hoot, Partyperks! I'm sure you're right but you've roused my interest. Perhaps we're the way we are due to countless generations that couldn't quite get things right.

 

I've got to have an in-depth conversation with Twenty-three about Nicaea! I'm sure Constantine was too busy moving Rome to Istanbul to get too involved. Hell, I'm moving from one house to another and I'm here to tell you it's daunting!

 

Thanks. I'm still grinning.

 

Alura

[GspotDPlover 84]

If God created man in his own image, than God is a 2 foot primate with opposable thumbs who lives in a tree and he did it 7 million years ago. Those proto humans (our ancestors) of the African rain forest turned savanna could not have cared less about monogamy.

 

That is true only with a very base understanding of what God's image refers to. The simpliest explaination is the Neoplatonic one: the image of God is the intellect (that part of the soul that is immortal and originates with the essence of God himself) placed in each human being. God as a old horny man who lives in the clouds comes from Greek myth, Zeus and even that is not a good representation of him. The anthropomorphisms of the Christian God or God as any kind of physical being are gross misunderstandings and debase the divine.

[Alura 2,774]

I'm stickin' with Mother Earth and Father Sky.

 

Alura

[Partyperks847 123]

What a hoot, Partyperks! I'm sure you're right but you've roused my interest. Perhaps we're the way we are due to countless generations that couldn't quite get things right.

 

I've got to have an in-depth conversation with Twenty-three about Nicaea! I'm sure Constantine was too busy moving Rome to Istanbul to get too involved. Hell, I'm moving from one house to another and I'm here to tell you it's daunting!

 

Thanks. I'm still grinning.

 

Alura

 

When the economic elite of your empire has taken a keen interest in this new faith in which the far eastern portion of your realm no longer feels compelled to follow that very non business friendly mosaic law, you make it the official faith...even then, you look for motivation, you always follow the money.

 

Nicaea was THE consummate horse created by a committee that turned out to be a camel. They never did resolve that pesky humanism vs divinity thing, seems like such a minor thing compared to what they all DID agree to....but I digress

 

I suspect we are the way we are due to a series of multiple tangential random factors which no one could possible correlate.

 

Tasks are only daunting in modern times because we are so distracted. Constantine altered the coarse of human history and never broke a sweat. Good thing he didn't embrace Sako Gaki Buddism instead of Christianity, that bamboo alter would look SO tacky in my living room

[Partyperks847 123]

That is true only with a very base understanding of what God's image refers to. The simpliest explaination is the Neoplatonic one: the image of God is the intellect (that part of the soul that is immortal and originates with the essence of God himself) placed in each human being. God as a old horny man who lives in the clouds comes from Greek myth, Zeus and even that is not a good representation of him. The anthropomorphisms of the Christian God or God as any kind of physical being are gross misunderstandings and debase the divine.

 

So Toumai, our 7 million year old ancestor who ate it's own head lice for protein was endowed with the essence of God?

[Sweet.Pea 15]

Is it hypocritical at all? I only ask because I know it goes against many of the Bible's ways, and knowingly committing a "sin" over and over and then asking for forgiveness seems like it would be difficult to navigate as far as my conscious is concerned.

Swing is hysterical only in the view of those who have an interest in selling organized religion. Jesus had a message but this message is a little difficult to read though the layers that religion has laid over it. If Jesus is speaking to you in any way, what is he saying to you?

[Lionheart72 2,190]

The idea of sexual sin was introduced by Saul of Tarsus in his many letters to Christian Groups. Saul (or the unbefitting name Saint Paul) had the idea that God was extremely pissed off that his only son had been crucified and would soon, probably no later than tomorrow, destroy the world. Some historians suggest Saul was ugly, misshapen (perhaps a dwarf with a hunched back) and certainly not the sort of fellow women sought out as a sexual partner. Perhaps, for that reason, he displayed a lot of misogeny. Certainly, he felt that followers had no time for sex. They needed to be concentrating on avoiding hell by making peace with an angry God.

 

While I agree that we can lay a lot of the blame of ol' Saul's shoulders, let us not overlook the father of the modern Church: Augustine.

 

Augustine was, essentially, a dishonest swinger, a sex addict and self-declared pervert. He decided that everything we was doing in his sexual life was wrong, but he kept doing it anyway. He wrote extensively about how people shouldn't do the things he did on a regular basis. So between a unrepentant but guilt ridden sex-fiend and a misogenistic dwarf, the Church picked up some pretty fucked up views regarding sexuality.

[Playful1 434]

Not christian and definitely not a god believer, but, i do have to point out...."adultery" does not mean cheating...it means sex with someone other than your spouse. there is no clause about whether the spouse knows and consents or doesn't.

 

Additionally, I think swinging, just like most behavior, is something people rationalize to ensure it does not clash too much with their chosen religion. People are very good at rationalizing.

[DigginIt 1,132]

Not christian and definitely not a god believer, but, i do have to point out...."adultery" does not mean cheating...it means sex with someone other than your spouse. there is no clause about whether the spouse knows and consents or doesn't.

 

I have to disagree with you here, while Adultery does mean sex with anyone other than your spouse. If you take into context that once you were married you were taking a holy vow to be faithful to them, the term could easily have implied or assumed characteristics about it. In the sense of adultery, it can pretty much be assumed that when it was committed, it was often without their spouses consent so therefore the addition of 'without their spouses consent or knowledge' isn't necessary to add.

[Playful1 434]

I'm being technical. the literal meaning of it simply means sex with someone else besides the spouse. whatever context based or society based extra meanings people want to add, does not change that. it is like many other words that have gained new, or extra meanings because of the interpretations outside the original definition.

[Alura 2,774]

From The Concise Oxford Dictionary: Voluntary sexual intercourse of married person with one of the opposite sex other than his or her spouse.

[Lionheart72 2,190]

From The Concise Oxford Dictionary: Voluntary sexual intercourse of married person with one of the opposite sex other than his or her spouse.

 

With the interesting aside that homosexual sex apparently doesn't count as adultery.

[Chicup 41]

Biblically speaking, neither would slave girls.

[shrevecouple 252]

Ok, I thought my comments might be a tad out of line, but I see mine are mild by comparison....so here goes

Christianity is a cafeteria faith.....take what you like and ignore the rest.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on it. Which for me, renders all the little factoids and arguments on the subject pointless.

[Alura 2,774]

With the interesting aside that homosexual sex apparently doesn't count as adultery.

 

I noticed that and wondered about it, but had to hurry to help my brother with a project.

[GspotDPlover 84]

Ok, I thought my comments might be a tad out of line, but I see mine are mild by comparison....so here goes

Christianity is a cafeteria faith.....take what you like and ignore the rest., which is fine, so long as that is acknowledged by the faithful.

 

Unfortunately, Chritianity has become--for many not for all--a "buffet religion." But so have all the rest. Many are really nuts, like the oxymoronic American women who claim to be Feminist Muslims. Clearly religions are grossly misunderstood and become fluid once they begin. This is no reason to take the zero-sum approach--that is scepticism popular since the Enlightenment that dismisses a faith based on ones own misinformed, misunderstood, and misapplied criteria--to religion common in the secular West and displayed throughout this thread. We live in a very imperfect world and religion has been and remains the means of understanding the cosmos and our place in it. So I only reiterate in another way what I wrote eariler addressing the original post: if swinging is the worst thing you do, you might just be a saint.

[TwoSexyMI 151]

Wow, what a discussion. I enjoyed reading it. The things that Chicup quoted were exactly the parts in the Bible I was referring to - those are the things that I thought - "there is just no way I can knowingly have any physical gratification from anyone other than my husband" but Alura was right, those weren't said by Jesus or handed down by God and Saul...

 

I do think religion in general is a bit of a cafeteria faith. This is one of my problems with organized religion and why I believe just having a good private relationship and hold tight to our own morals and beliefs is the way to go.

 

Thanks peeps.

[Partyperks847 123]

Unfortunately, Chritianity has become--for many not for all--a "buffet religion." But so have all the rest. Many are really nuts, like the oxymoronic American women who claim to be Feminist Muslims. Clearly religions are grossly misunderstood and become fluid once they begin. This is no reason to take the zero-sum approach--that is scepticism popular since the Enlightenment that dismisses a faith based on ones own misinformed, misunderstood, and misapplied criteria--to religion common in the secular West and displayed throughout this thread. We live in a very imperfect world and religion has been and remains the means of understanding the cosmos and our place in it. So I only reiterate in another way what I wrote eariler addressing the original post: if swinging is the worst thing you do, you might just be a saint.

 

I can actually reconcile a feminist Muslim more easily than a christian swinger, and that may be due to the fact I was exposed to the Muslim faith at an early age and know what it actually teaches, as opposed to the distorted extremist views, and the even more distorted post 9/11 western views.

For example, between the Bible and the Koran, only one of the two books teaches women must cover their heads, and contrary to popular belief, that would be the bible. (See Paul scolding the Corinthians)

Contrary to stereotypes, if you see women in the secular middle eastern nations and Muslim women in America who come from that background, their dress, appearance and attitudes do indeed reflect a feminist philosophy. Even in Iran which is non secular, much to the angst of the clerics, woman have incorporated western fashion into traditional Shiite dress, and hold positions of authority and thumb their nose at extremism

 

In terms of Christians, we are not just talking old testament here, in fact in matter of extramarital sex, the NEW testament is more stringent than the old. The old testament simply said " Thou shall not commit adultery"....Matthew 5:28 tells us you are not even allowed to THINK about it.

 

 

I guess at the end of the day it is between people and their faith what they do and do not do....I slipped the surly bonds of a a belief in a patriarchal judgmental creator decades ago, so i'm good either way.

[Just Passing By 140]

* I am probably the last person to be quoting the Bible as resons to (whatever) * , but ...

 

On ANY subject multiple oposing pronouncements can be quoted. Useing selective quotations, contexts , translaations , different editing , and historical use of language you can come up with quoting the Bible to give any answer on any subject.

 

Taking a stab at what I *think* the OP was actually wanting to know :

 

If two spouses are doing somthing together with mutual consent , there is no Unfaithfulness taking place.

 

Swinging isn't for everyone. If both people don't feel the same way , they shouldn't contemplate swinging ( or any quasi- swinging related activity).

[IEcouple 222]

People pick and choose which parts of their religious faith that they want to follow. Everyone does this. It's probably impossible to stick rigidly to all of a religion's rules because the whole point is to have standards to try to live up to.

 

Besides, Christians should probably worry more about other things Jesus told them instead. Like why Judgment Day hasn't happened when he said it would. And that you can't get into heaven unless you've given away all of your money and possessions. That one is pretty tough to follow.

[TwoSexyMI 151]

People pick and choose which parts of their religious faith that they want to follow. Everyone does this. It's probably impossible to stick rigidly to all of a religion's rules because the whole point is to have standards to try to live up to.

 

Besides, Christians should probably worry more about other things Jesus told them instead. Like why Judgment Day hasn't happened when he said it would. And that you can't get into heaven unless you've given away all of your money and possessions. That one is pretty tough to follow.

 

This wasn't meant to be a debate on Christianity...if you have nothing of value to add, or can't post thought provoking thoughts without snark, please refrain from posting in a thread directed at Christians.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

This wasn't meant to be a debate on Christianity...if you have nothing of value to add, or can't post thought provoking thoughts without snark, please refrain from posting in a thread directed at Christians.

 

I'm tryingg to find the shark in their post, or even really how it differs from any of the previous comments about Christianity (many of which were posted by non-christians)

[Alura 2,774]

Besides, Christians should probably worry more about other things Jesus told them instead. Like why Judgment Day hasn't happened when he said it would. And that you can't get into heaven unless you've given away all of your money and possessions. That one is pretty tough to follow.

 

Did Jesus say that? I thought it was Saul of Tarsus who was all concerned about an imminent Judgement Day. Feel free to point out the errors of my ways.

[TwoSexyMI 151]

I'm trying to find the shark in their post, or even really how it differs from any of the previous comments about Christianity (many of which were posted by non-christians)

 

I interpreted it as snarky bc he's talking about what Christians "should do" and have to be worried about. None of the other posters said anything like that...or were talking about what was necessary to get into Heaven.

 

Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word snark, but that is how it read to me given the context of my initial post/question. At the very least it is off topic/not helpful.

[Alura 2,774]

From The Concise Oxford Dictionary: Snark, n. Chimerical animal of ill-defined characteristics and potentialities. [from The Hunting of the Snark by Lewis Carroll (1876)]

 

It's not the use of the word. Suspect posts should not be responded to, they should be reported by clicking the triangle with the ! in it at the bottom of each post.

[IEcouple 222]

Jesus didn't specify exactly when Judgment Day would occur and clarified that only God knows. But he did specifically tell his disciples (upon being asked) that it would occur within their lifetimes. Thus the urgency of his message.

 

The fact that this Judgment Day has never happened has caused some theologians to do some complex mental gymnastics to try to explain it away.

[TwoSexyMI 151]

From The Concise Oxford Dictionary: Snark, n. Chimerical animal of ill-defined characteristics and potentialities. [from The Hunting of the Snark by Lewis Carroll (1876)]

 

It's not the use of the word. Suspect posts should not be responded to, they should be reported by clicking the triangle with the ! in it at the bottom of each post.

 

Thanks. I didn't think it required reporting :-) It wasn't a big deal, I just responded in the moment as I felt.

 

Carry on.

[Alura 2,774]

Don't worry about it. I don't even think it will be necessary to report it to Saint Peter.

[GspotDPlover 84]

No offence to anyone here but if this is a debate on Christianity, everyone needs to do allot of reading and study first. Posts seem most interested in pointing out modern historical arguments against biblical passages and the difficultes of living a sin free life (it is in fact impossible) which means the essence of Christianity is totally misunderstood. And this is of course the source of the attacks on the faith as people get personally offended by being made to feel guilty for their sinful acts. Guilt being a sin as well, a very destructive one that sows doubt in oneself and the divine. Well, best wishes in your studies for anyone who pursues a better understanding.

 

Since this thread is largely negative and was asking a specific question, I also reposted to add that there is a positive side to Judaism and Christianity regarding sex. It is referenced in the context of marriage (keep in mind marriage was the norm throughout the biblical period) but the Bible does in fact command the love of spouses to one another--this includes a strong emphasis on sex and fulfilling each others' needs: physical desire, lusts, and fantasties. The Song of Solomon is layered like all bibical books and ultimately describes God in mystical form, but it places love making in a very powerful and beautiful place in the cosmos. Again I am not saying that wife swaping is acceptable biblicaly, but in Judaism men could marry multiple wives and gentile traditions are not addressed as the entire Bible is Judeo-centric text. I am not aware of addressing single sex life or group sex other than it is mentioned as a fact of life, as is prostitution, in the Hebrew Bible and condemnation of basic fornication by some prophets and Christian disciples.

 

One last note regarded Jesus of Nazareth himself and his possible sex life. The tradition of Jesus being married was a Merovingian invention to promote the divine right of Frankish kings, nothing more. Is it possible Jesus was married as all of the Apostles were? Yes, but I would not bet on it. He also speaks of rare individals who devote their lives to service to God (some prophets, monks, medieval mystics, Isaac Newton even fits this) and Jesus is much more likely the chief example of those who have only passion for God. Note that this has also been used by the Medieval Church to require clergy to remain celibate, by others to promote homosexuality. Both are ridiculous as the Greek word used in the gospels means "eunuch" refering to a spiritual servent of God and the Chruch who does not pursue their own selfish desires. Well priests (most at least), homosexuals, and the heterosexual masses clearly do not come close to this lofty spiritual trait.

 

As for me, I do my best to live an honest life and pursue the passions of my heart, but I am also very horny!

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

From The Concise Oxford Dictionary: Snark, n. Chimerical animal of ill-defined characteristics and potentialities. [from The Hunting of the Snark by Lewis Carroll (1876)]

 

It's not the use of the word. Suspect posts should not be responded to, they should be reported by clicking the triangle with the ! in it at the bottom of each post.

 

Thanks. I didn't think it required reporting :-) It wasn't a big deal, I just responded in the moment as I felt.

 

Carry on.

 

I don't really think it was "report worthy" either. Not something that the mods would have taken action on. To me it just seemed that your response was unwarranted given their post. I, personally, just really dislike the replies that read something like "if you can't give me the advice/info/response/etc that I thought I was asking for please don't respond" (which is how your reply read - to me). Unfortunately (or fortunately, I really don't know) this is a public forum which means that when you ask a question you will get a variety of answers and opinions, many of which will be completely irrelevant to your original question (or to what you thought your question was...lol). I say that and laugh because it's happened to me plenty of times where I post a question and then read the responses and think "but that's NOT what I was asking!" It's frustrating, but it's a party & fact of forum life, and one of the many joys of written communication.

[TwoSexyMI 151]

I feel like this was blown out of proportion. I felt his post was condenscending, ans i didnt think my response was very rude...but i concede and do not wish to ruffle any feathers. I felt a way and replied as such. Same as he did. No harm, no foul.

[C@YWMI 15]

:applause:For GspotDPlover, Great reply. It is so easy to forget that God hates all sin, but we all seem to get hung up on our sexual needs,and hang ups. While we faulter in some other areas. White lies , gossip,are just a couple of the other sins eeveryday people fall short on. Good luck on the OP filtering thruthe info put out

[TwoSexyMI 151]

:applause:For GspotDPlover, Great reply. It is so easy to forget that God hates all sin, but we all seem to get hung up on our sexual needs,and hang ups. While we faulter in some other areas. White lies , gossip,are just a couple of the other sins eeveryday people fall short on. Good luck on the OP filtering thruthe info put out

 

Thanks.

Yes, kudos to GspotDPlover, it was a great post with much thought, and I appreciate it.