How to know you're on track for relationship success or pitfalls?

[Guest EastBayCouple]

I'm MADLY in love with my wife and I want to make 100% that nothing jeopardizes our relationship... well, ok, 100% is kinda ridiculous and I know someone will say "If you want those odds, don't swing!"... so we're willing to take some risk, but hopefully you understand the context of my point.

 

We're both very interested in getting deeper and deeper into the lifestyle. So far we've gone to about 5 on-premises club events and mostly watched, had people watch us, and very light / soft swap (lots of touching and rubbing, but no oral or anything past that).

 

We've been taking it slow and feeling things out. My feeling right now: We are interested in playing in the deep end eventually, but we want to feel out for sharp rocks before diving head first. I'd hate to "dive in" and do a full swap and then find out that one of us is thrown for an unexpected loop and it messes things up.

 

I've been reading as much online as possible about relationships coming out of swinging. Here's the problem:

 

Non-swinging blogs, forums, etc: "I know a few couples whose relationships were destroyed by it!" The problem here is that anybody who was into swinging and no-longer is, probably isn't inclined to post their own experiences.

 

Swinging blogs and forums: A self-selective group where most will say, "It's benefited our relationship and made it stronger." This is expected since most people who hated swinging, fought, got divorced over it, etc. probably won't be here chatting everyone up and shooting the breeze about the lifestyle.

 

I read post after post that says, "If you have any jealousy, don't do it!" (meaning keep getting deeper into swinging). The first time we went to a swing club it was perfect. The second time there was some communication problems, jealousy, and a pretty heated argument. Should we have quit right there? Our third and fourth time was great and no problems. The fifth time there was a little bit of an issue, but after some slight emotional back and forth everything was fine. Should we have quit? Should we quit?

 

We're both SUPER excited about what lies ahead. Talking and thinking about what we've done and what we will do gets us crazy turned on. We're both at our computers right now and each of us are on lifestyle sites... I think we're addicts!

 

So, here's the big question: How do you know when the "jealousy" and "poor communication" crosses the line from "Meh, many swingers, especially new ones, go through this and find their comfort level... it's just part of the process." vs. "DANGER! STAY AWAY! DISASTER AHEAD!!!!"

 

If we had a crystal ball that showed us "If you keep down this path you'll eventually break up" we'd quit immediately. On the flip side, if we quit right now we'd feel like someone was about to hand us the keys to a brand new Ferrari and then yanked it away from us at the last minute.

 

Is there any way for us to know when what we're feeling and dealing with crosses the line from "par for the course" into "danger, turn around!"?

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

I think almost everyone has some jealousy at some point. It may be envy or feeling left out or a general feeling of discomfort. It's the way you work through it that makes a difference. If you are able to share your feelings, reassure each other and move on, then jealousy helps your relationship grow. If you can't let go of it and can't get or give the reassurance needed, then it will hurt your relationship.

 

Like you said, there's no 100% guarantee. But, being able to communicate and putting your relationship first can help to insulate you from problems.

 

It sounds like in your situation you are going slow and working out issues as they arise. That's a positive sign.

[D&D 362]

Those are excellent question? Hard to answer though!

 

We don't have the perspective of a couple that has been doing this for a while- basically we started this 6 months ago. However what I do have is a very good is that newbie perspective where it all seems overwhelming. First off I can't tell you what the future holds in respect to what swinging will do to your relationship, but neither can I tell you what remaining in a monogomous relationship would entail for the future of your relationship. We would all, swingers and non swingers, would love to know what that thing is, which if avoided, would keep us together. I would say there isn't such a thing or things, other than maybe not conversing enough with each other.

 

So speaking as a newbie, like yourself, here are my thoughts on what you are asking regarding swing and your relationship.

 

1. I don't love my wife any more than I did before we swung, however I am way more attached to her than I was before. I enjoy spending time and being with her a lot more than I did over the last few years.

 

2. We have had our heated arguments about swinging, about potential and past partners, about what we are each looking for and about how we act in club/party situations. It's not all "peaches and cream", although the peaches and cream that I do get served are top notch.

 

3. My wife and I have never communicated better. It's like we can now talk about anything, not just sex, but anything. The honesty that this has brought into our talk is crazy. Once we decided that we had to be able to talk about what we wanted, and I mean what we each really wanted, we can now talk about anything, money, politics, what we want to do to someone else. It's was very liberating for us as a couple to be ale to talk about things, like what we each do wrong or right when we have sex. Being able talk with my wife in the same way I talk with my friends is very nice. It has made us much better friends.

 

4. Inevitably you or she is going to do something the other really doesn't like, its probably unavoidable in swinging. Swinging is playing with fire, but not satisfying or somehow dealing with our desires is also playing with fire. In a sense this swinging experience has been a kind of therapy for us, we are now better at communicating what we want and how that affects each of us. Neither of us get everything we want but being able to talk it out has been very positive for us. I would say that this isn't any different from regular life relationship issues, talking is key! Swinging has forced us to talk in a way we never did before.

 

Is swinging going to keep us together or tear us apart? Who knows the answer to that question, but i would say swinging probably has little to do with whether we stay together or fall apart. Staying together or falling apart is usually the result of many different issues not just one. Vanilla couples have just as many issues as swingers. Lastly I would add that since we have started swinging we are way more active doing things together than we ever were before. Together is pretty good!

[cplnuswing 4,713]

Great questions, thanks for posting!

 

I don't know that I necessarily agree with the "If you have any jealousy at all, don't do it" line of thought because it implies that it makes it impossible to succeed at it. I think everyone has some level of jealousy in their life, although what trips their trigger may be different, whether it be sex, money, etc. I think it's fair to say that most swingers are the same in this regard, so overcoming jealousy is just one of the skills that someone learns if they are successful at making swinging a positive part of their life.

 

On the "should we have quit" question, I would say no. Whenever you start something new, problems are going to arise, it's only natural. That is true whether it is a new relationship, new career or workplace, etc. It just takes a little while to learn what the rules are, both spoken and unspoken, and where the hot buttons and pitfalls lay.

 

As to your big question, as long as you are continuing to learn as you go, and not repeatedly making the same mistakes, then some bumps in the road are to be expected but nothing to be to worried about. If six months from now you are still cycling through the same issues, then there might be a problem. If you have solved those issues and moved onto the next level, that doesn't mean there won't be new and different problems since you are on something new again, but the skills you learned on level 1 on going to help make level 2 problems much easier to work through, and that continues on up the line. At some point, probably quicker than you think, you'll start to feel like an old pro and with that comes the confidence that any problem you encounter is no biggee that can't be solved.

[Alura 2,774]

On our second date, my late wife and I agreed that we would never become angry because a question was asked. We further agreed that we would always discuss any question until it was resolved, even if it took years. "I don't want to talk about it!" was not acceptable. It worked for us for almost thirty years.

 

Don't make love. Fuck. When we swapped, the sex that happened was nothing like our love making. We laughed, joked and had fun. Mrs. Alura, who admitted that she enjoyed "playing to [her] audience" was particularly good at keeping the levity. One of my favorite remarks was when she was copulating with a fellow who was a bit over-endowed. "Kiss me, Rich! I want to see if you can lick the head of your cock. Really! It's right here!" she said, pointing at her throat. Emotional bonding could not happen in such an atmosphere.

 

I remember only one incident when I felt the pangs of jealousy. After she had brought him off, Mr. Playmate was stroking her hair lovingly, much like we "loved" our kids hair. After we got home I told her about my feelings. She promised she'd never let it happen again, and she didn't.

 

You and your wife can, indeed, improve your communication (and, as a result, your marriage) through swinging if y'all can work at it together. If you can't, you'd probably be better off not getting involved.

[Chicup 41]

I read post after post that says, "If you have any jealousy, don't do it!"

 

This one is one of my pet peeves. Having jealousy is VERY normal at times early on. What is important is learning how to deal with it and banish it (which I did). Much of this depends on your own level of self control and ability to use your big head over your visceral animal nature. Some people become violent and abusive when jealous and yes those people shouldn't swing, others can keep it inside and learn to control it and get over it. This is what I did and it was the best thing about swinging at a purely personal level.

[Guest EastBayCouple]

Wow, tons of great info, thanks!!

 

funcoupledayton said:

being able to communicate and putting your relationship first can help to insulate you from problems.

funcoupledayton, I think you are spot on regarding this! IMO if we both do that, we have a much better chance of success (in swinging and our relationship).

 

 

D&D said:

First off I can't tell you what the future holds in respect to what swinging will do to your relationship, but neither can I tell you what remaining in a monogamous relationship would entail for the future of your relationship.

D&D, that's a very enlightening point! It's not like non swinging will fix or save a relationship. I'm sure there are cases where swinging will cause problems, but like many things in life, the return hopefully far exceeds the managed risk!

 

 

cplnuswing said:

On the "should we have quit" question, I would say no. Whenever you start something new, problems are going to arise, it's only natural. That is true whether it is a new relationship, new career or workplace, etc. It just takes a little while to learn what the rules are, both spoken and unspoken, and where the hot buttons and pitfalls lay.

I love this comparison! Just because it is hard and maybe sometimes tricky and painful, doesn't mean we should necessarily quit. Heck, marriage and raising kids is like this. It's just a question of degrees of the pros and cons, and of course our priorities on each other and our communication.

 

 

Chicup said:

Much of this depends on your own level of self control and ability to use your big head over your visceral animal nature.

Ya, I totally understand that. In fact, when I dissect the feelings I had when we ran into some problems that second time, I'm realizing it has less to do with the actual jealousy (I actually liked seeing her get pleasured), but it has more to do with the communication, agreements, validation, and respect. We communicate really well, but there are some areas that we could improve and so far this seems to be helping... kinda like exercise!

 

This raises a question I have: How do you differentiate jealousy (your partner is liking things more with someone else than you, or your partner is having fun and you're not) vs. frustration over expectations (expected that we'd do something but something else happens)?

 

 

We're still so very new that a lot of stuff is in flux. Like a lot of newbs, we have a ton of rules and the agreement that both of us have to completely agree if there is going to be any changes to the rules.

 

Here are the two big issues right now:

 

1) When we ran into problems the second time: We were with a couple just doing really soft stuff. The wife got so overwhelmed with the excitement that she asked me if it was ok to do something. She said she thought she knew I had heard her, and that since I didn't say "no" that it must have meant I didn't have a problem with it. Once I found out what she was doing I got bothered... not because of the thing, but because of how poorly the communication proceeded.

 

2) Another time at a club she had a guy in a couple pretty much watching her and trying to get her to come over all night. At one point the couple came over and my wife started to give him a HJ. I was kinda expecting the same from his girl, but she just sat there and ignored me. It made me uncomfortable like I was a 3rd wheel. I asked my wife to come give me attention but she kinda felt an "obligation" to finish the guy and said I could go play with others in the club (our rule is to always play together). So, I was now hurt to be ignored and then told to go find someone else. A little bit more decisively I said, "Honey, can you come give me attention... and she must have heard my tone and left the guy and came over.

 

The nice part of these experiences: We worked through them and were able to learn to make rules and have communication that we kinda didn't think to have before. For example:

 

1) Any permissions, rule changes, etc. MUST be explicit, verbal, and we must sense that our spouse is excited about the change and the permission. We have to feel sure that they are NOT just acquiescing, but that they are genuinely excited and happy about what is going on.

 

2) We move only as fast as the slowest member of the group. She won't leave me in the dust and I won't do that to her either. Of course, we are leaving this open for change, but only under the conditions of the first item above.

 

We're going to a really exciting club / event this weekend and I think we've got our communication, rules, processes, etc. that should hopefully help us better avoid pitfalls while still having fun and leaving room for growth and changes.

 

I really look forward to more of your thoughts and ideas!

[Alura 2,774]

I think y'all are moving along nicely. Your heads are in the right place and your communication is, indeed, growing stronger through "exercise."

 

Good for y'all! It's the caring that makes the difference.

[slevin 1,374]

I would say that if you're self aware enough to come up with some excellent questions like this then you are on the right track. Also, if your relationship is so important to you that you want to go through this kind of thought process and research then you're also on the right track. If your wife takes your relationship this seriously as well, then you are probably ok to give swinging a try and see what happens. Just because you try it once doesn't mean you ever have to do it again. It could just be that crazy thing you tried once

 

I think the biggest thing that swinging couples should be sure of is that their relationship is the most important thing to them. I think it's right up there with communication. In my mind there are three things that are almost of equal importance:

 

1. Communication

2. Treat your relationship as sacred

3. Both partners be focused on making sure the other is ok

 

With those three, you'll handle anything that comes up, whether it's swinging or something completely non-sex related.

[Chicup 41]

This raises a question I have: How do you differentiate jealousy (your partner is liking things more with someone else than you, or your partner is having fun and you're not) vs. frustration over expectations (expected that we'd do something but something else happens)?

 

Kinda like saying what the color blue looks like for me. Jealousy is a very specific feeling as is frustration. Frustration is a lot easier to handle

[Guest EastBayCouple]

Slevin... GREAT list!

 

1. Communication

2. Treat your relationship as sacred

3. Both partners be focused on making sure the other is ok

 

I love my wife and also love the thought of us playing with other people... I really want to find a way to have my cake and eat it out too!

 

Ok, we discussed the whole issue around someone saying, "If you have jealousy, you shouldn't swing!". Here's the next totally subjective question: People say, "If you are don't have excellent communication, don't swing!" So, how the heck do we determine if our communication is or isn't sufficient for pushing forward? Are there "communication aptitude tests" that give you an A - F grade? If we score a "B+" (maybe a "B-" when one of us is moody), can we still swing?

 

Here's the problem: Jealous / Not Jealous... Good communicators / Bad communicators... it's not like it is "Yes/No"... there are a million shades of gray. I think most people want to think of themselves as "not jealous and great communicators"... but I bet a lot of us are maybe a bit too optimistic when self-judging?

 

What do you think?

[slevin 1,374]

Thanks

 

I think that most people who misguidedly assume their communication is good won't even second guess it. They'll just brush that off without a second thought. If you and your wife are communicating openly about the things you are posting here, then you're on the right track. A lot of couples here have said that swinging has brought their level of communication to a far more deep and open level. But they also started out with pretty good communication. Talking about a subject like swinging openly together, including wrestling with the questions you are bringing up, shows a pretty good level of communication.

[ViSexual 1,008]

Well, you certainly got enough good advice already but I do have one thing to add.

 

You've seen the blogs about couples whose marriages were destroyed by swinging and you've seen the blogs about couples whose marriages were enhanced.

 

If you look around here, or other sites, you'll find lots and lots of couples who participated and one or the other decided to stop. And, lots and lots, of the marriages weren't damaged at all! As long as you're doing this together, and neither is pushing the other, it won't damage your relationship.

[ViSexual 1,008]

There was another thread recently that had suggested reading. So, I took the suggestion and am reading the book. And, how interesting, just this morning I noticed this entry;

 

Quote

 

Jealousy is a disease, love is a healthy condition. The immature mind often mistakes one for the other, or assumes that the greater the love, the greater the jealousy— in fact, they’re almost incompatible; one emotion hardly leaves room for the other. Both at once can produce unbearable turmoil—

 

Heinlein, Robert A. (1987-05-15). Stranger in a Strange Land (Remembering Tomorrow) (p. 363). Penguin Group. Kindle Edition.

 

 

If you two enjoy reading, I think this book just might help you both. And another book is 'Sex At Dawn' by Christopher Ryan.

[D&D 362]

ViSexual said:

There was another thread recently that had suggested reading. So, I took the suggestion and am reading the book. And, how interesting, just this morning I noticed this entry;

 

Jealousy is a disease, love is a healthy condition. The immature mind often mistakes one for the other, or assumes that the greater the love, the greater the jealousy— in fact, they’re almost incompatible; one emotion hardly leaves room for the other. Both at once can produce unbearable turmoil—

 

Heinlein, Robert A. (1987-05-15). Stranger in a Strange Land (Remembering Tomorrow) (p. 363). Penguin Group. Kindle Edition.

 

If you two enjoy reading, I think this book just might help you both. And another book is 'Sex At Dawn' by Christopher Ryan.

 

Heinlein seems to be a very popular author amongst the swingers!

[CandLinPC 92]

I'll echo much of what has been said here. It's about how you deal with the jealousy. Acknowledge it, think clearly, communicate clearly, forgive, make a decision on how to deal with it next time. When a relationship implodes because of jealousy, it's because one of the people in the relationship refuses to do one or more of these things.

 

Know and have confidence in the fact that your partner does not want to hurt you. We all make mistakes. Deal with them appropriately and all will turn out well. Have a healthy discussion, not a fight. Keep a cool head.

[twistedpretzels 100]

One late diddy my friend--

I would suggest starting out slow and enjoying all the various titilation levels involved.

When I was a hairdresser 1000 years ago I would always suggest to my customers to go thu 3 different looks before getting the final style for their hair going from long to short. It was a fun transition for them.

In the same (but vague. lol) way I would suggest things like:

 

1) going to a meet and greet first-- and then discuss your likes and dislikes thoughts and fantasies.

 

2) going to a club to experience the energy and freedom.

 

3) going to a club and having public sex together talk blah blah blah.

 

4) you will inevitably have dinners with countless people where there wont be a 4 way match.. those are always good for discussions too.

 

5) start with soft swap.

 

6) sha-bang!

 

Just a thought, but all of this can take months and month unless you decide to make the process like a part time job. (it can take a lot of work)

 

Enjoy yourselves and let us know how things shake up and down

[losAmantes 318]

All great replies! If couples would invest as much energy and research into getting married as they do getting into swinging, the divorce rate would be about nil!

[Guest EastBayCouple]

Wow, a TON of great responses and info... thanks everybody!

 

CandLinPC said:

Know and have confidence in the fact that your partner does not want to hurt you. We all make mistakes. Deal with them appropriately and all will turn out well. Have a healthy discussion, not a fight. Keep a cool head.

 

Great point! In the heat of the moment it's hard not to feel like the other person isn't trying to hurt you. Devil's Advocate: Of course, just because someone isn't trying to hurt you doesn't mean their actions, or lack thereof can't hurt just as much. For example: Say we go to a club and my wife is feeling left out, rejected, sad, etc. and I don't do anything to help her feel better... not because I consciously choose not to help, but because I'm either too selfish and/or consumed with other things and/or oblivious. IMO, she's feel hurt that I didn't care how she was feeling, and that can spawn thoughts like, "He doesn't care about me... he must not love me... he obviously cares more about those other people than me!" So, even if I wasn't trying to hurt her, my apathy towards her could be just as hurtful and damaging. Do you agree? Disagree?

 

An Update Report:

We went to a party this last weekend and what an experience... actually 4 experiences!

 

Two of them were with couples that off-the-bat were WAY too aggressive! Now we really know what people mean when they say "no aggressive couples". It think alcohol had a large impact on these other two couples approach to us, but it still made us uncomfortable and bail. The other two experiences couldn't have been more perfect! Perfect pace, tone, etc. We came back with some really great memories and contact info!

 

If all of our experiences end up like the later two examples, we may never get any work done with all our partying!!!

[SW_PA_Couple 4,024]

If all of our experiences end up like the later two examples, we may never get any work done with all our partying!!!

It is a sweet vanity to know that people are attracted to you. Yes, the activity can become a habit.

[Guest EastBayCouple]

Yes, yes it is!

 

Oh, and instead of forking this topic, I started a new one and would love to get more of your experts' advice:

 

More Excitement With Others: Good or Bad For A Relationship?

[Sean&Shell 15]

Though our experiences differ a bit, I can wholeheartedly understand your view on this subject. That's the reason why we're here...to see if this is the correct journey for us!

[JM153 346]

You have received some great advice most all of which I wholeheartedly agree. A trip wire for me was a feeling I had to be successful every night. Kind of like your experience when the other wife was not interested in you. She is getting hers, but I am not. Now that left out feeling can be caused by a lot of things including insecurity or as was noted a feeling of abandonment by your partner. But I realized for me it was a combination my competitive nature and this feeling there the night is a failure if I don't get mine too. Once I realized that there will be nights when one of us will have a better time than the other and it is no big deal because there will be other nights in the future.

[Guest EastBayCouple]

But I realized for me it was a combination my competitive nature and this feeling there the night is a failure if I don't get mine too. Once I realized that there will be nights when one of us will have a better time than the other and it is no big deal because there will be other nights in the future.

 

Wow, you definitely hit a lot of the nail on the head!!! I'm very competitive and wasn't even factoring that into the situation... good call! So, now I'm realizing there were a handful of reasons I was bothered by that situation, and not all of them were necessarily rooted in jealousy.

 

With that said, I still don't know how well or quickly I'll be able to get to a place where I'd be perfectly fine in that situation. A lot of it will have to do with having more "successful" situations (like last weekend) and having my confidence in our relationship through this stuff remain totally solid. For now we've agreed that we absolutely only move as fast as the slowest person... so neither of us is "left behind".

 

We're still wading deeper and deeper into a rushing river of fun... we just want to make sure we keep our footing solid with each step. We appreciate all the great tips, experiences, and suggestions!

[M&S 266]

One other thing to consider that has helped my wife and I as we have gotten into the lifestyle. We agreed early on that, while we have rules and boundaries, honest mistakes can happen and, within reason, they are not a big deal. For example, we are soft swap and my wife is quite bisexual, so we like play that is fairly intense girl-girl with softer swap between the opposite sex partner. One night we met a couple, and as we played, it was clear that they liked to swap partners. While they respected our soft swap rules, she clearly wanted to play just with me (and her husband with my wife). It was not ideal because, while I found the women attractive and had a good time, my wife was not that into the guy and really didn't have much fun. I noticed this eventually, but not as soon as a probably should have Afterwards, we did not argue or she did not feel betrayed. She simply concluded that 1) it was not a great sexy session for her, 2) it's really complicated to make the dynamic between four people perfect, so sometimes you will miss a bit and 3) no big deal, we move on and hope to have more fun next time

 

The reason I bring this up as an example is that I find that, despite lifestylers open minded views toward sexuality, it is still has a tendency to expose our vulnerabilities and self-doubt. As we play in this lifestyle, I think we have to accept that, like any other aspect of our life and relationship, each of us will make mistakes and misstep, but unless you truly cross a big line, it is no big deal and you learn from it and move on.

[CandLinPC 92]

EastBayCouple said:

Wow, a TON of great responses and info... thanks everybody!

 

 

 

Great point! In the heat of the moment it's hard not to feel like the other person isn't trying to hurt you. Devil's Advocate: Of course, just because someone isn't trying to hurt you doesn't mean their actions, or lack thereof can't hurt just as much. For example: Say we go to a club and my wife is feeling left out, rejected, sad, etc. and I don't do anything to help her feel better... not because I consciously choose not to help, but because I'm either too selfish and/or consumed with other things and/or oblivious. IMO, she's feel hurt that I didn't care how she was feeling, and that can spawn thoughts like, "He doesn't care about me... he must not love me... he obviously cares more about those other people than me!" So, even if I wasn't trying to hurt her, my apathy towards her could be just as hurtful and damaging. Do you agree? Disagree?

 

I fully agree. To answer the devil's advocate, however, the fact is that mistakes like these will inevitably happen. The important part is how you deal with them. Here is the same conversation, albeit a bit truncated, said two different ways with opposite outcomes.

 

Her: Honey, you know tonight when you went down on that girl? Did you realize that you hadn't asked me if you could do that, and that broke one of our rules because you didn't ask me?

 

Him: I hadn't realized that until now. I was so in the moment, and she nearly pushed my head down into her crotch. It was a bit of a surprise, and also so quick that I wasn't able to think quite that fast. I'm sorry that I didn't ask you. How did you feel about it in the moment?

 

Her: Well, to be honest, it was quite hot to watch, but it left me a bit perturbed afterwards because you didn't follow our rule.

 

Him: Okay, I get that, and will have it in mind a bit so that I won't get caught off guard quite so easily. Did you want to keep the rule intact, about asking first or is that something that you're past now? You said it was kind of hot, so I wanted to check in on how you feel about it.

 

Her: No, I think we'll keep the rule intact for now, only because I like to stay informed of what's going on.

 

Him: Cool. Lets have some hot sex while fantasizing about that girl forcing me to go down on her, where it's safe and you can enjoy the sight without any broken rules.

 

Her: I like that idea, let's go fuck!

------------

V2:

Her: Why did you break our rules??!!! You know that it hurts me so bad when you don't ask if you can go down on the other girl.

 

Him: Why are you so jealous? Can't I have any fun at all? It makes me feel like I have a collar around my neck when you say stuff like that! I barely had time to think before she shoved my face in her pussy!

 

Her: I don't care if you didn't have time to think. You broke a rule and now I can't trust you anymore.

 

Him: You're being unreasonable, I didn't like that rule anyway. Sometimes you just have to go with the flow, baby. You know you liked it, I could see it in your eyes. You're just ashamed that you liked it.

 

Her: How can you say that? I'm mad at you and you don't care! We're never swinging again, and you're not getting anything from me for a month, not even a handy!

-------------

 

As you can see, conversation 1 is the cool head, forgive, re-negotiate, empathetic, constructive version. V2 is the accusatory, unforgiving, refusing to let go, and most importantly, destructive kind of conversation. As far as I'm concerned, this constructive, forgiving dynamic is more important than the playtime itself. It's the only way that my wife and I personally could survive the specific kinds of stresses that swinging puts on our relationship. Version 2 only happens when a person is being selfish, and actively clutches to and feeds the jealousy and hurt. Quit hugging the thorn bush, and you'll quit getting hurt.

 

There's a catch though. BOTH partners have to agree to act constructively, it simply doesn't work otherwise. The above conversations are not gender-specific either. All people have to play by the same rules.

 

We're glad you had both good and bad experiences in your update. Robin Williams quoted a director he worked with one time, "When you make a mistake, go with it because it's a Buddhist gift." I always try to look at mistakes as opportunities to learn. That's kind of the basis of my comment about being confident that your partner isn't intentionally trying to hurt you. Also, bad experiences teach us the warning signs and red flags about which couples to stay away from. It really does train the spidey-sense.

 

Happy hunting EBC!

[Guest EastBayCouple]

CandLinPC, you're my new hero!!! Fantastic post and I LOVE how you took the exact same situation, but showed two completely different outcomes... great job!

 

I think the biggest things we need to keep doing are:

 

1) Make sure we're always putting the other person and our relationship first

2) Communicate deeply, frequently, and honestly

3) Don't feed the destructive feelings and try to foster the constructive ones

[M1F2KTJ 473]

My wife fell in love with the first guy I talked her into having sex with. The first time couldn't have been more perfect. She loved having sex with him. It was our fantasy come true. He was invited back and the more times that they had sex together the deeper she fell in love. It was hard watching them "making love" together. He became possessive of her to the point that he became jealous when I had sex with her. He tried to talk her into leaving me and she almost did but she decided to stay with me. It was another long time before she did anything like that again.

[Guest AZfunloving]

JM153 said:

A trip wire for me was a feeling I had to be successful every night. Kind of like your experience when the other wife was not interested in you. She is getting hers, but I am not. Now that left out feeling can be caused by a lot of things including insecurity or as was noted a feeling of abandonment by your partner. But I realized for me it was a combination my competitive nature and this feeling there the night is a failure if I don't get mine too. Once I realized that there will be nights when one of us will have a better time than the other and it is no big deal because there will be other nights in the future.

 

Well, this really hits home with me, because I'm in a dilemma. We're fairly new to all this. Met our first couple for a meet & greet last Wednesday, and we all got along so well we asked them over for a little fun last night. It seemed, on the surface, everything was going great. Pool time started off the playing, and it was getting quite hot and heavy in the pool, with the other husband eventually fucking me right there (mind-blowing!), with my husband and other wife playing with each other and him jacking himself off (at her request). I did notice she seemed reluctant to grab him or give any signal that she was getting turned on. Not vocal at all, and I could see it wasn't helping my husband stay turned on. We moved inside to play pool, with the rule of "distraction" producing some titillating results.

 

Next we all headed up to the bedroom, where we started to seriously play while watching porn. We paired off on our large king bed...very sexy. Her husband doing an awesome job with me, and my husband was being the sexy guy I knew with her. Her husband and I watched as he pounded her and she urged him to cum. What an unexpected turn-on for me!!

 

Then, suddenly, after my husband came inside her, she suddenly announces she's got to go, cuz she was working the next day. Kind of took us all by surprise.

 

After they'd gone, and I was relishing in the whole erotic night, my husband says, "well, THAT sucked! Good for you, but she didn't come once for me, and I felt totally inadequate." Maybe you should just run off with him, since you were having such a good time!"

 

I of course said that was crazy, and that I had no idea he wasn't having a good time as I looked over and he came spectacularly inside her.

 

He hasn't talked to me all day today, seems to blame me for "having fun" while he wasn't, and doesn't even want to touch me, although there's nothing i would like better.

 

What the hell else can i do? He won't even talk to me, and now i end up feeling guilty and cheap, despite his initial excitement about the whole evening.

 

Advice? Help?

[Guest AZfunloving]

Forgot to add that the other woman never once climaxed, leaving my husband feeling inadequate and a disappointment, which (trust me) is never the case.

[Guest EastBayCouple]

AZfunloving, I can tell you 100% from first hand experience how I felt since that's more or less how I responded the first time this happened with us. I can't totally speak for your partner, but when this happened with us:

 

1) I needed 100,000% validation that my partner loved me unconditionally and always would no matter what!

2) Any comments of why something happened or how or what just felt like she was dismissing my feelings and justifying and made me worry it might happen again. All I wanted and needed was #1 above... anything else just made me feel worse.

3) I needed time to cool down and look at things objectively without emotion, which was still raw soon after the event. While in cool-down mode, patiently and lovingly applying #1 above speeds the process.

[Guest EastBayCouple]

M1F2KTJ said:

My wife fell in love with the first guy I talked her into having sex with. The first time couldn't have been more perfect. She loved having sex with him. It was our fantasy come true. He was invited back and the more times that they had sex together the deeper she fell in love. It was hard watching them "making love" together. He became possessive of her to the point that he became jealous when I had sex with her. He tried to talk her into leaving me and she almost did but she decided to stay with me. It was another long time before she did anything like that again.

 

This is seriously the type of story that freaks me out. I completely understand that these cases are rare, but they do happen. I know my spouse totally loves me and I don't envision a time where another guy would be able to take her from me.

 

That said, she's incredibly hot and I wouldn't be surprised if guys didn't eventually try to steal her away. In the far back of my head I sometimes wonder, "What if there is an intersection of a time when we're in a big fight and it's also during a time when there's a suave guy trying to seduce her... what would happen!?!?!"

 

I know swinging doesn't necessarily break up relationships faster / more than anything else, but if problems are left unchecked I believe that swinging can expose problems, multiply them, and put individuals in a situation where it might be easier to find escapes with other people, when compared to non-swinging.

[Guest AZfunloving]

EastBayCouple said:

1) I needed 100,000% validation that my partner loved me unconditionally and always would no matter what!

 

2) Any comments of why something happened or how or what just felt like she was dismissing my feelings and justifying and made me worry it might happen again. All I wanted and needed was #1 above... anything else just made me feel worse.

 

3) I needed time to cool down and look at things objectively without emotion, which was still raw soon after the event. While in cool-down mode, patiently and lovingly applying #1 above speeds the process.

 

Great advice, EastBay Couple...and thankfully, that's exactly what I've been doing. At least verbally telling him...he didn't want any part of anything physical.

 

And now I got a brief text from other husband, saying thanks for the great time, but his wife has decided she doesn't like the foursome thing...only MWM. My husband is an awesome lover, and I completely understand why he feels like shit. I guess all I can do is continue to reassure him and give him time.

 

Thanks again for your input...REALLY helps to know we're not alone.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I think the jealousy level that results in advice to avoid swinging is jealousy prior to swinging. We occasionally see couples where one of them is just generally jealous... can't stand to see their partner flirt with someone (or worse, assumes they are flirting when they aren't), etc. Those couples should not swing.

 

As for communication, we all have our blips. The important thing is that no one is lying or purposely withholding information. Make sure that after each time you play that you sit down and talk through any feelings that may have occurred. Share with each other what it was like to be in YOUR shoes during that encounter.

 

That said, again if you relationship heading into swinging already had communication issues (lying, withholding info or simply just issues going on that cause communication to lapse) it's best to not swing just yet. Work on the communication first. Even those of us who have been swinging a while have things that affect our communication and require a break from swinging. A few years ago, we had a situation in our household where hubby was dealing with a seriously stressful work situation. His brain was all bound up in that. Unfortunately, I was dealing with a major health issue and was all bound up in that. We were both stuck in our own heads and unable to really share with each other or help each other through the tough time we were each having. Obviously, the communication issue wasn't the only reason we weren't swinging at that point, but it was part of it. We got to a point where we had both just shut down communication and it took a few months before we were finally able to just fix it (by way of one of us bringing it out in the open and then we were able to talk about it and move forward in a more positive manner - of course, that was AFTER the two major stress issues had been resolved).

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

AZfunloving said:

Well, this really hits home with me, because I'm in a dilemma. We're fairly new to all this. Met our first couple for a meet & greet last Wednesday, and we all got along so well we asked them over for a little fun last night. It seemed, on the surface, everything was going great. Pool time started off the playing, and it was getting quite hot and heavy in the pool, with the other husband eventually fucking me right there (mind-blowing!), with my husband and other wife playing with each other and him jacking himself off (at her request). I did notice she seemed reluctant to grab him or give any signal that she was getting turned on. Not vocal at all, and I could see it wasn't helping my husband stay turned on. We moved inside to play pool, with the rule of "distraction" producing some titillating results.

 

 

What the hell else can i do? He won't even talk to me, and now i end up feeling guilty and cheap, despite his initial excitement about the whole evening.

 

Advice? Help?

 

How are things going now? I'd suggest starting a separate thread to talk about this if you want more advice. Your story kind of got lost at the end of someone else's.

[slevin 1,374]

What the hell else can i do? He won't even talk to me, and now i end up feeling guilty and cheap, despite his initial excitement about the whole evening.

 

Advice? Help?

 

My bet is that he's feeling inadequate. You were having a great time, having great sex and the other husband was pleasing you a great deal. Your husband was unable to please the other woman, so he is feeling like he doesn't stack up. Give him a bit of time and make sure that he knows that he pleases you more than anyone. Talk openly about it with him, but if not, fuck his brains out and make sure he knows that he fucks you the best

[sunbuckus 3,567]

My bet is that he's feeling inadequate. You were having a great time, having great sex and the other husband was pleasing you a great deal. Your husband was unable to please the other woman, so he is feeling like he doesn't stack up. Give him a bit of time and make sure that he knows that he pleases you more than anyone. Talk openly about it with him, but if not, fuck his brains out and make sure he knows that he fucks you the best

 

I must be crushing on slevin lately because I think this is the 3rd time I've agreed with them! (And I do think you two are cute!) Anyway, I liked slevin's response because it got me thinking about our first time. It was a great experience but the actual sex was so-so that first time. I wasn't used to having sex with a condom or a different man other than Mr. Sunbuckus. I'm sure Mr. Sunbuckus enjoyed his time with Mrs. Playmate but I think he had the best time making the other Mrs. gush and squirt multiple times...something that I've never done with him before. If he didn't have such a fantastic time the first time, I wonder if he might have reacted similarly to Mr. AZfunloving.

 

Try to talk with Mr. AZfunloving, assure him that he is still the best in your book, show him that you love him, and take it slow with the swinging until he comes around.

[Guest AZfunloving]

How are things going now? I'd suggest starting a separate thread to talk about this if you want more advice. Your story kind of got lost at the end of someone else's.

 

Things are better between my husband and I -- thanks for asking -- but the situation isn't better. Relating to why there are so many eager MEN out there, but not so many equally eager women (at least from what we've seen so far!). You're right...I'm going to start another thread on THAT topic! Thanks!

[Guest AZfunloving]

slevin -- you crack me up! And you and Sunbuckus are dead on with your advice...thank you both! I did fuck his brains out, which helped tremendously! However, as I said above, this whole thing brings to light a whole 'nuther subject, so I'm going to start a new thread...your wisdom there would also be appreciated!

[slevin 1,374]

Thanks for the compliments sunbuckus! The feeling is mutual

 

AZfunloving, glad to hear everything worked out between you!

[Guest EastBayCouple]

An update from us:

 

Things have been going great! We've had some new experiences and met new friends and we're always so excited for the next adventure and meeting (almost too anxious... it's interfering with our daily lives). We're still heading into things slowly and checking our vitals every step of the way by really communicating and making sure we're ok and on the same page. So far things have been going really well and we're excited for more and more experiences!

 

One area I'm still struggling with: Differentiating my feelings about the person my spouse is with. Some people I just don't have a great feeling about and I'm not sure it is because of jealousy, gut feeling, or something else.

 

I'm trying to figure out which feelings I should trust and keep vs. which ones I should try to resolve / remove. Maybe there are cases where I should heed my feelings and not proceed. Maybe there are other areas where I should resolve whatever issues are causing the feelings and get rid of them because they are prohibiting more fun and growth. How do I know the difference?

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

[One area I'm still struggling with:[/b] Differentiating my feelings about the person my spouse is with. Some people I just don't have a great feeling about and I'm not sure it is because of jealousy, gut feeling, or something else.

 

I'm trying to figure out which feelings I should trust and keep vs. which ones I should try to resolve / remove. Maybe there are cases where I should heed my feelings and not proceed. Maybe there are other areas where I should resolve whatever issues are causing the feelings and get rid of them because they are prohibiting more fun and growth. How do I know the difference?

 

Are you generally dispassionate in your assessments of people or are you so reactive you end up apologizing a lot? Somewhere in between those extremes? It's likely to be the same here, at least enough that you have a starting point for gauging your responses. Talk about it with your partner, see if there are patterns to your reactions, look inside kindly but thoroughly. And sometimes you might still have to admit you have no rational reason for your lack of enthusiasm. That's okay and enough of a reason to rule out that person.

[Guest EastBayCouple]

Well, we had our first real "soft swap" last week and it was AWESOME!

 

We've been to various parties and even met up with other couples privately, but we've never done much more than the girls going at it and some very light swapping. Well, this time we were with a couple who is full-swap but VERY non-pushy. They were totally ok with whatever we did or didn't want to do.

 

In all those other situations we held to our newbie rule of "no kissing". We just didn't feel ready and maybe didn't feel comfortable enough. This couple made us feel so comfortable and all 4 of us clicked so well that my wife and I decided, "If the girl is into and starts kissing me, then you're welcome to do the same with the guy!"

 

About 15 minutes into light playing I asked the girl what she thought about kissing and she said, "No, it is against your rules." hahaha... as it turns out, my wife had mentioned that rule to her and this girl was totally excellent about respecting that. I said, "Well, my wife said if you're ok with it, then she is." Her reply: "Hmm... that sounds like a lie. " I said, "Ok, no problem... Hey honey, what do you think about kissing?" She looked over and sexilly said, "If it's fine with you it is fine with me." It was 0.02 seconds later that we were making out!

 

Not really any jealousy at all! It's amazing how if I'm comfortable with the guy and I'm having fun with the girl, that it's way easier not to be jealous and have problems.

 

The only two slightly small items:

 

1) Seeing them cuddle afterwards gave me a teensy weensy bit of "hey, that looks a little bit more romantic than I expected"

 

2) My wife and I both commented on what an amazing kisser the girl is, and I found myself thinking about kissing her while kissing my wife. I told my wife the next morning that I was slightly worried about it and wanted to have full disclosure with her. She asked, "Are you fantasizing about kissing her while kissing me?" I said, "Not fantasizing... more like remembering." She said, "That's fine, no problem."

 

3) We're actually thinking about doing full swap. We were sure that we never would full swap and that was our single hard fast rule. We did make sure we stuck to our other rule of not changing that rule while in the moment. Well, we were so close to breaking it that it was obvious it wasn't going to be 100% hard / fast forever.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

Sometimes the best research happens in the field. I'm very glad things went well for you.