First Full Swap - He struggled, she was a porn-star - some complications...

[NYFlirts 158]

I mentioned in our "welcome thread" that we recently found a couple with whom we really clicked.

 

We had rules we wouldn't ever full swap, but that went out the window pretty quick and we were both 100% fine and on the same page.

 

Things were going perfectly well... that is until penetration time. For the first time, I had a hard time staying hard. It was so embarrassing!!!

 

I'm not sure if it was the condom (which I hadn't used / needed to use for 10 years) or if it was that I was over-thinking things, or the newness of the situation or what... but I couldn't do what I really wanted to do. It didn't have anything to do with my wife getting hers... I was fine with that since I was getting mine... or at least that was the plan.

 

Here's the breakdown:

 

We both started the swap at the same time, all was cool

I wasn't as hard as I expected

This made me think more about it and made me less hard

This made it uncomfortable with the girl and then thinking she was let down made me feel worse and then less hard

Then I find out that the other guy is an animal and pounding the living $#(T out of my wife... and I feel even worse

Then they finish and 10 minutes later they are at it again... then again... then again... then again.

 

So, while on one hand I'm super happy that my wife had a great time, I'm feeling like a TOTAL LOOSER and my self-esteem is crushed. Not only did I let myself down, and the girl I was with, but the other guy was the total opposite of the spectrum. He would have made me look "bad" even if I was up to my regular stamina and abilities... but now it was even worse.

 

It's weird because I don't really blame anybody. Everyone was totally cool about everything... I'm just totally beating myself down and wondering what to do next.

 

Another issue: This guy has been with a TON of women and he kept saying how amazing and how insatiable my wife is. He said she's one of the only people to ever keep up with his stamina and how lucky I am. I know that she also REALLY enjoyed him, his stamina, and his ability to cum like 8 times in one night (it was crazy... he even came on her chest after 3 times coming inside her and I have no idea where the volume of stuff came from in such a short recoup period... it was crazy!)

 

So, even though she says that she really enjoyed him she's saying how much she loves me and loves being with me. From a non-emotional standpoint I totally believe her, but there is the emotionally sensitive and recently crushed side that says, "Crap, I can't compete with that! She loves sex and loved being pounded all night. If I was her I'd be thinking about him all the time and wanting him more and more."

 

I definitely know I need to take a break and let the raw emotions settle / heal. I'm just not sure if I want to take the chance of getting crushed again, especially not knowing if everything would just be a replay of last time.

 

What do ya'll think? I really want to get over all this emotional crap... it just drags me down and limits the fun we were / can have. I know it's all in my head, but getting it out is proving to be difficult. Writing about it here is actually helping more than I expected.

 

I look forward to your thoughts!

[M&S 266]

I think there are a couple of issues

1 you didn't perform as well as you would have liked under pressure. It happens to the best of us. I remember my first FMF threesome. It was a total fantasy come true adm I thought I would be hard as a rock. I wasn't. It was fine but not near the experience I hoped because, even though I did not realize it, I was self conscious and nervous

2 her having an AWEsOMe time - that happens too. If that makes you feel insaecure, you cn take solace in the fact that, generally speaking, women place way less importance on their man being a fantastic lover and more importance on him being a good partner. It is apparently a adapted thing, where women, historically, knew that if they had sex with a man they could have his child and he saddled with him for 20 years. Therefore they seek more in their partners than a good fuck - notnthatbtheybdont like this, but I doubt she would leave you for him

[twistedpretzels 100]

I always say it must be hell to be a man. Stuggling with not getting a H/O would be SO much pressure. Pete and I are super into the sensuality of sex. That is why I LOVE waking him up by blowing him when he is soft. He has very few issues with getting rehard but occassionally he needs the.... inspiration. We've been with cpls where he has performed very well but wanted to get hard again. I think, often (?), some women feel if a guy doesn't have a hard on that it is the women's fault-- like she is feeling she isn't sexy enough or enough of a turn on and the woman becomes embarassed and then isn't whole heartedly into oral. Then the guy gets embarrassed or stressed. One thing I know is that most guys still like oral action when they are not hard. IT JUST FEELS GOOD. I feel like I am making out with Pete's cock. I ask him NOT to get hard and guess what... he never complies! But I think most men have had the frustration of their dick doing whatever the heck IT wants and not what THEY want. It's the physiology of a hard on--- goshdangit! I too would have been way bummed after/during the date but I am SURE your wife isn't 'rating you against this date'. I bet you get lots of positive feedback and support from your post-- cuz.... you're in the normal range!!! xo

[cplnuswing 4,713]

I'm not sure if it was the condom (which I hadn't used / needed to use for 10 years) or if it was that I was over-thinking things, or the newness of the situation or what...

 

yes, yes, and yes. Any one of those things can cause issues, and when you get all three working together against you, it sucks. It's a classic example of the harder you try, the worse it gets. Read the forums here and you will find it happens, best thing to do is just try t0 relax, get your mind off of it (go back to doing foreplay or whatever for a little while), and the distraction will help remove the mental block and everything will probably work out ok in a few minutes.

 

So, while on one hand I'm super happy that my wife had a great time, I'm feeling like a TOTAL LOOSER and my self-esteem is crushed. Not only did I let myself down, and the girl I was with, but the other guy was the total opposite of the spectrum. He would have made me look "bad" even if I was up to my regular stamina and abilities... but now it was even worse.

 

I've been on both sides of this, and when you are the one where things are working out great, you can't help but sympathize with the other guy, because we've all been there. I think a potential source of the problem is trying too hard to keep up with what him and your wife are doing. The more you are focused on that, the more performance anxiety you feel and that cycle builds on itself. Just be content to know in a general way that she is having fun and doing ok without really trying to tune in on them. That way, you can focus most of your energy on you and your playmate.

[Gordo 618]

"Crap, I can't compete with that! She loves sex and loved being pounded all night. If I was her I'd be thinking about him all the time and wanting him more and more."

!

 

And yet his wife was with YOU!

 

Apparently being pounded constantly isn't as addictive as you'd think.

 

The other things were just nervousness and will pass once you realize you don't have to be the end all to every woman you meet. Just relax and enjoy them.

[NYFlirts 158]

Great comments and suggestions, thanks!!

 

It is amazing how "mental" this all is. It seemed so cliche when I told the girl "Ugh, this has never happened to me before!"

 

Regarding my wife, the thing that really got frustrating was this: After failing with my partner I went into the other room with her and had to sit there and make small talk while we waited FOREVER for the other two to finish. It was so crazy painful for me sitting there feeling like a putz while she was in the other room with a sex god a million miles away from thinking about me / us. We got into the lifestyle to have a fun shared experience but now I was on the sidelines while she was totally doing her own thing in her own world sharing an experience with another guy (the sex god) completely independent of me.

 

I'd love to get all these crappy feelings and emotions out of my head and I'm really trying to, but they just seem hooked into my brain / heart and it sucks not having control to get rid of them.

 

One epiphany I had last night: All over this forum there is council to not move faster than the slowest person in the group. I've realized that every time I've had a problem with the lifestyle it was when my wife moved way faster than I did. Every time we had amazing success in the lifestyle it was when we were perfectly matched with speed / progression. Each instance had a different reason why it caused problems, but they all came back to how fast things progressed. The situations:

 

1) We were new and had very specific rules that we would communicate before progressing. Both of the people who we were with were into us and things were going great but she moved to a higher level with her partner without discussing it with me first. I was bothered at the lack of communication.

2) Another time I was with someone who wasn't into me while my wife was speeding along with her partner. I was feeling like I was no good.

3) This last time where we were all totally into each other but I couldn't perform and she went all night with the other guy. I was bothered I couldn't perform and that I would be compared to this sex god who could cum 8 times and go all night.

 

On the flip side I look back on our best encounters and there were all cases where we progressed at the same speed at the same time and had great communication in the process. Best example: We had a no-kissing rule (mostly my rule). We were with a hot couple and everything clicked for everyone and kissing didn't seem like it should be a rule to keep. I asked my wife if it was cool that we all kissed and she said, "Definitely!" and we both moved into it with our partners at the same time... and it was PERFECT! Had one of us started making out without communicating first, it would have been an issue. Had one of us been with someone who wanted to make out and the other didn't, that would have been an issue. But since we were both totally on the same page at the same time it was perfect!

 

Does all that make any sense?

[NYFlirts 158]

And yet his wife was with YOU!

 

Apparently being pounded constantly isn't as addictive as you'd think.

 

OH MY GOSH! That is seriously the most profound and amazingly brilliant, yet simple response ever!

 

 

It's interesting that you said that. My wife is actually incredibly insatiable. She could seriously go all night if given the chance. She's been trying to explain to me that she was "satisfied" early on with the guy (like she is with me) but enjoyed continuing with him and seeing him enjoy it. She said she'd be fine going all night until she was dead tired or crazy sore, regardless of who is doing her... she just loves sex and making guys feel good. (I don't know if that should thrill me or worry me).

 

Basically I gotta get him competing with me out of my head because it seems like I'm the only one in the whole group that has any issues with how the night went down. Even the girl who I performed poorly with still said she had a great time and wants to see us again.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

OH MY GOSH! It's interesting that you said that. My wife is actually incredibly insatiable. She could seriously go all night if given the chance. She's been trying to explain to me that she was "satisfied" early on with the guy (like she is with me) but enjoyed continuing with him and seeing him enjoy it. She said she'd be fine going all night until she was dead tired or crazy sore, regardless of who is doing her... she just loves sex and making guys feel good. (I don't know if that should thrill me or worry me).

 

Basically I gotta get him competing with me out of my head because it seems like I'm the only one in the whole group that has any issues with how the night went down. Even the girl who I performed poorly with still said she had a great time and wants to see us again.

 

First, I have a question: Why were you done so early? I get that you weren't hard (and, seriously, it's neither an infrequent occurence nor any sort of a problem for most women), but women don't actually need dicks in order to get off. In fact, many much prefer hands and mouths for orgasms, although penetration is always a lovely thing. If you had spent an hour or two pleasing your partner with what was available, it might well have been the best sex she'd ever had.

 

I think your wife and I share a common trait. I too can have sex for hours without getting tired, get water and a shower and have sex for hours more. That doesn't mean that 20 minutes of sex leaves me unsatisfied. Far from it. It's just that I'm not done until my partners are.

[WildMiCouple 325]

NY Flirts, that's quite a first full swap

OK....don't mean to laugh, but the way you discribed it was kinda funny.

If you do meet up with them again, I would suggest you consider playing in separate rooms. This would allow you to focus on your partner without having Mr Pornstud distract you as he's pounding your wife right next to you. And getting more into your partner will no doubt have you as hard as ever. It's all about being comfortable, and I think separate rooms would certainly help you in this case.

 

Good luck!

 

Brett

[Gordo 618]

OH MY GOSH! That is seriously the most profound and amazingly brilliant, yet simple response ever!

 

Well thank you

 

Basically I gotta get him competing with me out of my head because it seems like I'm the only one in the whole group that has any issues with how the night went down. Even the girl who I performed poorly with still said she had a great time and wants to see us again.

 

You see my first experience in separate rooms in a hotel went just about the same as yours. I was devastated emotionally and felt like a complete failure.

 

But the one thing I did know was that "the pounder" didn't believe in foreplay. Just stick it in and go to town. I think a lot of well hung guys are like that. The wives enjoy the change because they can experience something they don't get at home. I know that's why she was with me because she wanted "my experience". She was literally dying for some loving foreplay. So soft dick and all you can still have some fun with oral, fingers, stroking and just plain old being caring. Your partner probably didn't even care about the lack of "dick".

 

That being said some Cialis can really help to take the rough edges off until you gain more confidence in yourself.

[ViSexual 1,008]

Hey, if you both really connected with this couple and like them, have you thought about separate rooms? That way you could concentrate on his wife and not be distracted by him and your wife so much!

 

And, it's true, his wife might be enjoying a partner who isn't so insatiable for a change! She may really enjoy a slower, more sensitive, encounter.

[NYFlirts 158]

Lots of great info and tips, thanks!

 

Looking back on it now, it all started out having way less to do with my wife and the other guy than it did with the following:

 

1) The newness of the situation and all the mentalness around the fact that I was about to screw another woman that wasn't my wife.

2) The awkwardness of going at it in their livingroom on odd furniture (I'm really a bed-screwing kinda guy)

3) The lack of sensitivity with using a condom for the first time in 10 years

4) My worry that I would cum too fast, wouldn't perform to her expectations, etc.

 

... all of this was messing with my mind way before there were even any thoughts at all about my wife and the other guy. Looking back on it now, my thoughts didn't turn to the other guy and my wife until after I had failed the attempts miserably and was sitting there for what seemed like an eternity waiting for them to finish.

[naughty_kitten 56]

The situation messes with your head. There is nothing wrong with taking half a Viagra before you swing so you don't have to worry about it.

[NYFlirts 158]

Well, another thing has been creeping in: I'm feeling a little jealousy that my wife had such a great time with this guy. It's totally weird because logically I know that she totally loves me, loves having sex with me more than anyone, and only views these other guys as "toys" and that's it. I also do love her completely and I like the thought of my best friend (her) really enjoying herself with other toys.

 

Even with all that logically in my mind, I still have this twinge of jealousy in my chest. I SOOO wish I could just rip it out and move on... it's really bugging me that it is there. I want for both of us to have tons of fun and have no worries, but I don't know how to expedite getting these feelings out of me.

 

Maybe the combination of my underperforming and her having an amazing time with pornstar guy is still too recent and I just need some time to reset to back where we were before this last experience where I was totally fine seeing her give 5 guys lap-dances at a party and had no issues / jealousy at all.

 

I'm feeling better each day, but any ideas on expediting the "healing" process and/or getting these slight jealousy feelings out of my head so we can have more fun again?

[cplnuswing 4,713]

Jealousy or disappointment? There is a difference I think and it's easy to confuse one feeling with another. But, to move past it, it is important to identify which it is. Jealousy is when you both agree that you need to plan a weekend getaway off by yourselves with either the guys or the girls. Her friend just won the lottery and on her dime as a surprise books the group a week's stay at the most exclusive resort in Aruba, and your trip is a Saturday night camping with the guys. You are jealous, her trip is better than your trip. You've always wanted to go to Aruba and know you may never have that opportunity. Disappointment is when she is going to Aruba for a week, you are going to Canada for a week fishing, both trips much anticipated. She enjoys a week of great weather laying on the beach, for you, it's a soggy, miserable week of cold rain with a gale blowing all day every day. That's disappointment.

 

Not perfect examples, but you get the picture. Jealousy is usually over something you can't have, disappointment is something you could have had, it just didn't work out that way. Both can be very powerful emotions, but I think the jealousy is harder to move past and forget. You can (and probably will) have a swinging experience every bit as good as she did, so try not to beat yourself up too much that this particular time fell disappointingly short of what you were hoping for.

[NYFlirts 158]

Wow, great distinction and comparisons between the two!

 

I'm starting to wonder if it might be neither...

 

I tend to be a worrier with things that are really important. Nothing means more to me than my relationship with my wife. She's the nicest and most caring person I know. She loves relationships and touching and sex. In some situations she's also relatively easily pulled into things and coerced. In the back of my mind (not something blatantly / constantly on my mind) is the thought, "If we open pandora's box and she gets comfortable sharing herself with other guys and comfortable with me being ok with her sharing herself with other guys, does that increase the chances that in the future she could be seduced away from me?

 

So, I guess it isn't jealousy or disappointment as much as maybe trust and worry?

[sunbuckus 3,567]

Well, another thing has been creeping in: I'm feeling a little jealousy that my wife had such a great time with this guy. It's totally weird because logically I know that she totally loves me, loves having sex with me more than anyone, and only views these other guys as "toys" and that's it. I also do love her completely and I like the thought of my best friend (her) really enjoying herself with other toys.

 

Even with all that logically in my mind, I still have this twinge of jealousy in my chest. I SOOO wish I could just rip it out and move on... it's really bugging me that it is there. I want for both of us to have tons of fun and have no worries, but I don't know how to expedite getting these feelings out of me.

 

Maybe the combination of my underperforming and her having an amazing time with pornstar guy is still too recent and I just need some time to reset to back where we were before this last experience where I was totally fine seeing her give 5 guys lap-dances at a party and had no issues / jealousy at all.

 

I'm feeling better each day, but any ideas on expediting the "healing" process and/or getting these slight jealousy feelings out of my head so we can have more fun again?

 

Wow, great distinction and comparisons between the two!

 

I'm starting to wonder if it might be neither...

 

I tend to be a worrier with things that are really important. Nothing means more to me than my relationship with my wife. She's the nicest and most caring person I know. She loves relationships and touching and sex. In some situations she's also relatively easily pulled into things and coerced. In the back of my mind (not something blatantly / constantly on my mind) is the thought, "If we open pandora's box and she gets comfortable sharing herself with other guys and comfortable with me being ok with her sharing herself with other guys, does that increase the chances that in the future she could be seduced away from me?

 

So, I guess it isn't jealousy or disappointment as much as maybe trust and worry?

 

NYFlirts, I'm not sure if I can help but I can offer my opinion on the matter. This was your first swap and I think it's normal to feel some jealousy that first time. I was jealous after our first swap. I began to ask comparison questions. Was she better? Did he like her more than me? How come he can make her squirt but not me? On and on...but we talked about it, openly and honestly. And you know what? When we swapped the second time, I didn't have any jealousy. For me, my jealousy was being insecure in our relationship and myself. When I realized that Mr. Sun still loved me, still preferred me, and wasn't going to leave me for someone else that we played with, then my insecurity and jealousy faded away.

 

As for the lap-dances, the reason you might not have felt jealousy at that time was because you knew that they couldn't have sex with her. It was just play and fun. That's how you have to see swinging as...it's fun. It's play. It's not serious. The both of you are exploring the swinging LS together...something for the both of you to share and talk about. You both just need to remember to be honest, open, and listen when communicating. Sometimes we aren't completely honest when we talk to our spouse (like "Does this dress make me look fat?"). Sometimes we don't listen when our spouse talks to us (like "Can you please change the baby's poopy diaper?"). This is something that requires both parties to do both when communicating because if you don't, swinging isn't going to work. Best of luck, and I hope you two can work this out and have more fun in the LS!

[NYFlirts 158]

How awesome would it be if I was able to burn through all the emotional crap right now so that all future events were a breeze!!! I think it's worth a try!

 

Lap Dances: I was thinking about that a bit. Part of it was also knowing that it was really only just a dance and there was no talking, cuddling, or even really any kind of connection at all. Another fun part: Knowing they were all crazy hard for her while she was dancing and yet she was coming back to me to hump my brains out.

 

 

Oh, and if things weren't already complicated with this mess of emotions, here's another thing my wife and I just discussed: I tend to be pretty competitive. Looking at the situation and thinking about this other guy who's able to "out perform" me in a pretty important area is also probably a bit of a bugger and causing some weird emotional responses.

 

My wife had a great retort: "He's not better than you... just new and different."

 

I have to keep coming back to that fact, and it applies to me too, for example: We'll go to strip clubs and I'll fondle some girls who have the most perfect natural breasts. Technically their breasts may be "better" than my wife's rack, but my appreciation of their amazing boobs hasn't decreased how much I love her breasts... kissing them, fondling them, etc. In theory I should recognize that my wife is the same way with this guy... he may pound her longer and harder, but it doesn't (hopefully) diminish her feelings for me and her enjoyment of me when we're in the sack.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

In theory I should recognize that my wife is the same way with this guy... he may pound her longer and harder, but it doesn't (hopefully) diminish her feelings for me and her enjoyment of me when we're in the sack.

 

There are a lot of places here where you'll see something along the lines of "swinging exposes cracks in our relationships and in our inner selves." I think the situation here may be one of the latter sorts of cracks. You say you're competitive and it appears you've decided your wife's playmate for the night was better, which - if I understand the rules of competition - means you lost. (Btw, I don't think so, nobody else who has reponded thinks so, but I do suspect that you do) That has to suck for you, but the thing is that it's just the voices in your own head talking and has nothing whatsoever to do with what actually happened.

 

I think every woman who posts here who is happy with her partner will tell you that sex with him is always going to be better than it is with any playmate. No matter how skillful, no matter how many orgasms we have, no matter how prolonged the experience with a playmate, our partners are our home and nobody else compares.

[NYFlirts 158]

mauijanedoe, my wife read your post and said, "Exactly!!"

 

 

You're spot on that it's just the voice in my head and my own insecurities that's causing all the issues, and not anything someone else did or said. From what I keep getting told, everyone else had a fantastic time (even my partner where I under-delivered) and the other couple is anxious to have us back for more fun... either just as friends with no extras or for full swapping fun.

 

Todo list:

 

1) Remember that my wife loves me the most

2) Fully understand that even if she has a great time with other guys, she still loves sex with me more

3) Know that she's not going to run off with any of these guys

4) Be happy that she's having a great time and enjoying herself while building confidence in her sexiness

5) Keep the communication and honesty wide open so we can remain on the same page and enjoy experiences together

6) Go back out there and have some crazy fun!

[jambi 15]

as well, the other guy could have been a tad more sensitive about what was to be achieved that evening (a good time for everyone) and not attempted his marathon session. if one person has stepped out for any reason (including orgasm), everyone should get to wrapping up their business or at least concede a break in the action until someone else resumes it. reciprocation needs to be on every level, these situations included.

[NYFlirts 158]

Updates:

 

We've had a bunch new experiences since our first time, a handful with the same couple. In fact the second time, he had problems and I didn't. We've been in enough situations with other couples where the guys got soft (hard to imagine that's even possible with how hot my wife is) for me to know that these things happen. Since then almost all of our experiences have been fantastic!

 

We've hit bumps over the past 8 months, but we've found 2 rules that pretty much cover everything we've had any problems with:

 

1) We put each other first ALWAYS!

2) We do everything at the same speed.

 

So, as it relates to this thread, if one of us hasn't started playing, the other slows things down. If one of us finishes early with the person they are with, then the other politely starts to end their playtime.

 

I'm not sure if it's my perception, but it seems like the last few couples we've been with that the other guy and I are finishing around the same times... sometimes me first, sometimes him. Almost like we know when time is up. Does that make any sense?

[10thBadger 25]

On 9/8/2012 at 12:39 AM, NYFlirts said:

How awesome would it be if I was able to burn through all the emotional crap right now so that all future events were a breeze!!! I think it's worth a try!

 

Lap Dances: I was thinking about that a bit. Part of it was also knowing that it was really only just a dance and there was no talking, cuddling, or even really any kind of connection at all. Another fun part: Knowing they were all crazy hard for her while she was dancing and yet she was coming back to me to hump my brains out.

 

 

Oh, and if things weren't already complicated with this mess of emotions, here's another thing my wife and I just discussed: I tend to be pretty competitive. Looking at the situation and thinking about this other guy who's able to "out perform" me in a pretty important area is also probably a bit of a bugger and causing some weird emotional responses.

 

My wife had a great retort: "He's not better than you... just new and different."

 

I have to keep coming back to that fact, and it applies to me too, for example: We'll go to strip clubs and I'll fondle some girls who have the most perfect natural breasts. Technically their breasts may be "better" than my wife's rack, but my appreciation of their amazing boobs hasn't decreased how much I love her breasts... kissing them, fondling them, etc. In theory I should recognize that my wife is the same way with this guy... he may pound her longer and harder, but it doesn't (hopefully) diminish her feelings for me and her enjoyment of me when we're in the sack.

He’s not better than you, he is just different and new. That is a damn lie and a damn catchphrase from telling you the truth. I may get flamed for this but any woman that says that knows it is a lie And better yet you know it is a lie and that’s what makes it bad. And this is not me this is my wife’s saying this

[10thBadger 25]

On 9/8/2012 at 1:04 AM, mauijanedoe said:

 

There are a lot of places here where you'll see something along the lines of "swinging exposes cracks in our relationships and in our inner selves." I think the situation here may be one of the latter sorts of cracks. You say you're competitive and it appears you've decided your wife's playmate for the night was better, which - if I understand the rules of competition - means you lost. (Btw, I don't think so, nobody else who has reponded thinks so, but I do suspect that you do) That has to suck for you, but the thing is that it's just the voices in your own head talking and has nothing whatsoever to do with what actually happened.

 

I think every woman who posts here who is happy with her partner will tell you that sex with him is always going to be better than it is with any playmate. No matter how skillful, no matter how many orgasms we have, no matter how prolonged the experience with a playmate, our partners are our home and nobody else compares.

My wife just told me to write this. Just because they say it doesn’t mean it is true