Thinking of getting off the swing

[lora-adam 15]

My wife and I have been married for 18 years. We started swinging four years ago. At first it was just vourism/exobitionism then progressed to full swap after about a year. We have gone to many house parties, clubs, hotel parties, even lifestyle cruises. At first I was obsessed with this new concept my wife was not as excited but wanted to go. I would always suggest trying new places or ideas/fantasies. My wife not so much interested in trying to live out the fantasies. When we would have sex I would through out fantasies and she would really get into it and have strong orgasims. This is good right? Whenever we go out to swing clubs or parties she is always excited and turned on. However she almost always never has sex with anyone other than me. Also, I'm always the one suggesting that we go out. Here's one of the problems I am having. She says that when we go out swinging that she is fine with me just having sex with other women. My issue is I dont like it. To me it is one sided swinging. Also, I love watching her fuck. Furthermore, I'm a bit paranoid. When I have sex with some woman at the swing club and she doesn't I get worried that maybe she is having an affair on me. So I become suspicious of where she is, what's she doing and everything else. We have full access (passwords) to each others computers, cell phones, Facebook, and everything else so I'm pretty certain she's not screwing around without me. These issues have caused a lot of friction between us. As a result I think we should just stop the lifestyle. Anyone have suggestions?

[Chicup 41]

If you don't like the one sided swinging and it's making you paranoid, then you already know the answer.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

As a result I think we should just stop the lifestyle.

 

I think you're right. It's supposed to be fun, and if it's causing friction, then it is probably time to step back from swinging.

 

Good luck to you both!

[sunbuckus 3,567]

...my wife was not as excited....

 

My wife not so much interested in trying to live out the fantasies.

 

...she almost always never has sex with anyone other than me.

 

From what you have written, to me it sounds like she's not interested in swinging and that perhaps she might have been just going with you to these experiences to make you happy. I could be wrong but if she didn't seem interested and she rarely played with anyone else, that's a big sign that she wasn't doing this for the both of you but for you only. Some of us can go out and do things that don't make us happy but we derive some from the enjoyment that others are feeling around us. If this is the case, you better be making sure you're doing something in return for her...something that makes her happy that may not interest you because it can turn into resentment if you aren't.

 

I think we should just stop the lifestyle.

 

I think you need a heart-to-heart with your wife and get to the bottom of how she feels and thinks about the LS. And talk about your relationship with her, your worries, concerns, and how much you care for her. But most definitely, stop right now and be prepared to leave the LS behind because it sounds like it's not helping your relationship but hurting it.

[DigginIt 1,132]

I don't get how you draw the conclusion that if she doesn't have sex with anyone you think she is having an affair. I just can't connect those dots but what you are feeling is called guilt!

 

What I can connect is that you made it pretty clear that, while she doesn't mind going, it's more in support of you than for her. She does it for YOU. That tells me that she cares about your happiness. We swing with people all the time but in all of the clubs we have been to, we have only connected with another couple...ONCE. I could have had sex with about 40 women in the club but there were none that gave my wife that...'wow' she is looking for to sleep with someone else.

 

If anything, you should definitely step back from the lifestyle but I think the issue is yours based on my initial impression from your post.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I don't get how you draw the conclusion that if she doesn't have sex with anyone you think she is having an affair. I just can't connect those dots but what you are feeling is called guilt!

 

What I can connect is that you made it pretty clear that, while she doesn't mind going, it's more in support of you than for her. She does it for YOU. That tells me that she cares about your happiness. We swing with people all the time but in all of the clubs we have been to, we have only connected with another couple...ONCE. I could have had sex with about 40 women in the club but there were none that gave my wife that...'wow' she is looking for to sleep with someone else.

 

If anything, you should definitely step back from the lifestyle but I think the issue is yours based on my initial impression from your post.

 

Ditto all of the above.

 

Stopping swinging is probably the best thing for both of you and your relationship.

[lora-adam 15]

I don't get how you draw the conclusion that if she doesn't have sex with anyone you think she is having an affair. I just can't connect those dots but what you are feeling is called guilt!

 

What I can connect is that you made it pretty clear that, while she doesn't mind going, it's more in support of you than for her. She does it for YOU. That tells me that she cares about your happiness. We swing with people all the time but in all of the clubs we have been to, we have only connected with another couple...ONCE. I could have had sex with about 40 women in the club but there were none that gave my wife that...'wow' she is looking for to sleep with someone else.

 

If anything, you should definitely step back from the lifestyle but I think the issue is yours based on my initial impression from your post.

 

The reason why I am paranoid is this: July of 2011 my wife and kids went to visit some of her relatives in the midwest. They were going to be gone for 3 weeks. One of our LS friends (a woman) invited us to a house party to celebrate the 4th. I told my wife about it and she told me to go (by myself) and have fun. We talked about me going for several days with me repeatedly asking her "are you sure". She repeatedly told me yes Im fine go have fun and yes have sex. So I went to the party and had a blast. When she came back she asked me about the party. So I told her. EVERYTHING. I dont hide things from my wife or sugar coat stuff either. She got pissed at me because she thought I was only going to have sex with one woman not several. So anyway, we talked it and worked out the issues she had over the course of several weeks and she told me she was fine. No animosity nothing. Everything was fine until she went to visit her mom and dad in northern california she was only gone for the weekend and she took the kids. I had to stay home because of work. When she got the that afternoon she sent me a text letting me know she was going to one of her cousins house, that night, because she was having a b-day party. Her cousin (female, married, college aged) has a lot of younger friends and one of them was a 23 year old male. My wife texts me that this 23 year old guy was hitting on her big time. I told her to go for it. If she wanted to fuck him have at it as this has always been one of our shared fantasies. She kept texting me all night, sending pictures of them two all of which were PG. So I started having issues with this. I was fine with where she was and what she was doing but started to get anxious and jealous when she was texting me. So finally I called her told her dont do anything as I was getting anxious and jealous. So anyway we went back and forth and I finally gave in. I didnt sleep at all that night and the next day I was constantly call her and at first she never answered then finally around noon she answered and I told her she better get home immediately as I was going nuts. I was having really bad issues with anxiety and jealousy however my cock was hard as a rock and wanted to fuck her immediately. So she comes home and proceeds to tell me everything that happened.

 

Her story is as follows: I was at my cousins party where T was flirting with me all night. T was also flirting with my cousins sister-in-law (we will call her S). As the night progressed we found an empty room I told T that I do not have sex without my hubby present however we can do other things. I him told my hubby was cool with all this and we do this stuff all the time. Anyway T was making out with me and S and we were taking off all our clothes except for panties. I basically was ontop of him grinding away. T never took off his underwear neither did S. T did not have sex with either me or S. I did not suck him off neither did S.

 

I was turned on by the story but I also had serious doubts and issues. We continued to argue about that night for many months. I was always analyzing and doubting her story. I mean seriously I go and fuck a bunch of women and she doesnt have sex with the guy she was with alone in a room!?!?! fast forward to the middle of october 2011 and we have a huge fight. Again what we both did was brought up again. I asked her if she new I was hesitant about her messing around with this guy then why did she go through with it. She flat out told me REVENGE. She was pissed that I fucked all those women. Since she has told me that she did it out of revenge I have become paranoid and suspicious of everything she does. I want to know where she is what she is doing...... everything.

 

FYI before the summer of 2011 we had sex with others and there were NO issues. I was fine she was fine. Her attitude towards swinging was the same that she was fine if I got a piece of ass but she did not. She just wants to be there and play with the three or four of us. She does have sex with others its just very rare. We have also had sex with others since the summer of 2011 again no jealousy issues. She has said she enjoys watching me fuck other women. However this is a contradiction from what she has said when we first started full swapping.

[lora-adam 15]

sunbuckus said:

From what you have written, to me it sounds like she's not interested in swinging and that perhaps she might have been just going with you to these experiences to make you happy. I could be wrong but if she didn't seem interested and she rarely played with anyone else, that's a big sign that she wasn't doing this for the both of you but for you only. Some of us can go out and do things that don't make us happy but we derive some from the enjoyment that others are feeling around us. If this is the case, you better be making sure you're doing something in return for her...something that makes her happy that may not interest you because it can turn into resentment if you aren't.

 

I think you need a heart-to-heart with your wife and get to the bottom of how she feels and thinks about the LS. And talk about your relationship with her, your worries, concerns, and how much you care for her. But most definitely, stop right now and be prepared to leave the LS behind because it sounds like it's not helping your relationship but hurting it.

 

I have asked her (a thousand times) if she is not interested and if she wants to stop. She always answers NO I want to continue. I ask her why. She says she has fun going out, partying, meeting people and having sex with me if front of everyone. She also says she doesnt feel that she needs to fuck other men as they dont take care of her like I do. She loves making out and touching others. She says it is one of the things she does for me to make me happy.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,024]

You and your wife need help that is far more authoritative than any free advice you might be given at any social-media Web site. Consider seeing a marriage councilor. A councilor will not ask anybody to reveal whether or not an infidelity had occurred. The councilor will try to help you get over or around your feelings of insecurity -- a good first step, I'd suggest, in repairing the relationship.

 

Wishing you the best in this.

[lora-adam 15]

two4youinswva said:

It's supposed to be fun

She has said this many times.

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

It sounds like a counselor might be helpful in dealing with the issues of jealousy, revenge and lack of trust you two are experiencing.

 

I don't understand why you don't believe that she didn't have sex with the guy in California and why you think she could be having an affair. Why don't you believe she likes to go out with you and have sex with you at swing clubs, and sometimes watch you with other women? I think you probably need to take what she says at face value and start trusting her. If you enjoy going to clubs together, do that and refrain from playing with others until you get your feelings straightened out. It almost seems like you are trying to take away the parts of swinging she enjoys because she won't do everything you want.

[lora-adam 15]

It sounds like a counselor might be helpful in dealing with the issues of jealousy, revenge and lack of trust you two are experiencing.

 

I don't understand why you don't believe that she didn't have sex with the guy in California and why you think she could be having an affair. Why don't you believe she likes to go out with you and have sex with you at swing clubs, and sometimes watch you with other women? I think you probably need to take what she says at face value and start trusting her. If you enjoy going to clubs together, do that and refrain from playing with others until you get your feelings straightened out. It almost seems like you are trying to take away the parts of swinging she enjoys because she won't do everything you want.

 

I accepted her word and believed her that she did not fuck him but that was before she told me she did it out of revenge.

When she told me she did it out of revenge is when my mind started racing.

Now, I just dont understand how or why she wouldnt have fucked him or anyone else behind my back.

 

Since then I wonder if she will do something else out of revenge.

[junglecouple 127]

I think perhaps SHE is fine with the LS, however YOU need to step back. You continue to express your jealousy, suspicions, but give her no credit for being open minded. It really sounds like YOU are the one with issues. Not knocking you, but that's quite a double standard you got working there. By a couple of the things you wrote, there is a strong "jealous controlling" nature showing up. Hopefully I'm wrong, but that's what I'd tell you if we were buddies, just sitting around discussing our respective wives, lives, issues.

[lora-adam 15]

I think perhaps SHE is fine with the LS, however YOU need to step back. You continue to express your jealousy, suspicions, but give her no credit for being open minded. It really sounds like YOU are the one with issues. Not knocking you, but that's quite a double standard you got working there. By a couple of the things you wrote, there is a strong "jealous controlling" nature showing up. Hopefully I'm wrong, but that's what I'd tell you if we were buddies, just sitting around discussing our respective wives, lives, issues.

 

I agree with you. The question is how to I resolve my issues of jealousy and controlling?

 

I dont understand "Not knocking you, but that's quite a double standard you got working there." what do you mean by double standard?

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

I accepted her word and believed her that she did not fuck him but that was before she told me she did it out of revenge.

When she told me she did it out of revenge is when my mind started racing.

Now, I just dont understand how or why she wouldnt have fucked him or anyone else behind my back.

 

Since then I wonder if she will do something else out of revenge.

 

Suspicion, jealousy and mistrust are crappy foundations for a relationship. You also sound angry and as if you're intentionally holding on to even the thinnest threads of evidence for your suspicion, etc. Only you can answer if or why that might be, but do you really want to continue poisoning your feelings about your wife?

 

Counseling might help; not having sex with others certainly will, as will talking with your wife while you hold onto the idea that you do love each other.

[lora-adam 15]

Well it seems there is a consensus that I have issues. I agree. Since I have lots of free time and health insurance I will make an appointment with a therapist so I can work out my jealousy issues.

 

As for continuing to swing. Ill let my wife read all this and decide.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

Well it seems there is a consensus that I have issues. I agree. Since I have lots of free time and health insurance I will make an appointment with a therapist so I can work out my jealousy issues.

 

As for continuing to swing. Ill let my wife read all this and decide.

 

Those are both great ideas. If at all possible, try for a sex positive therapist or a least one neutral about consensual non-monogamy.

[lora-adam 15]

How would I find a therapist that deals with consensual non-monogamy? Would I call a therapist and ask "how do you feel about consensual non-monogamy?"

[M&S 266]

I think a break from swinging is probably a good idea, but is secondary to figuring out what you both want out of sex in yor relationship. You might find the LS is great for you, but only under certain conditions. I think there are some basic questions each of you need to be on the same page on

- is having sex with others something you each want to do, or simply fantasize about

- are you truly turned on by your wife having sex with others or is it only a way of getting your hall pass, or is it only ok with you if you are there to see it

- is your wife interested in the lifestyle just to make you mhappy or does she really enjoy it herself

I think you both need to unpack these questions and it will help you land on whether, and how, you want to be in the LS

[two4youinswva 3,068]

It's supposed to be fun

She has said this many times.

That it's fun? Saying it is one thing, but you also said this:

These issues have caused a lot of friction between us.

Words are one thing, actions are another.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

How would I find a therapist that deals with consensual non-monogamy? Would I call a therapist and ask "how do you feel about consensual non-monogamy?"

 

Go to Google, type in (name of your city) therapy sex positive and see what happens. I got multiple hits for LA and SF, but it may be different in your area. Avoid those affiliated with a church or who say they specialize in infidelity.

 

Otherwise, you might have to interview, and, yeah, you will have to ask how they feel about non-standard sex.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

She says it is one of the things she does for me to make me happy.

 

To quote myself, I did elude that this might be a reason why she was doing it (to please you!):

 

 

Some of us can go out and do things that don't make us happy but we derive some from the enjoyment that others are feeling around us. If this is the case, you better be making sure you're doing something in return for her...something that makes her happy that may not interest you because it can turn into resentment if you aren't.

 

In other words, if you are the only one deriving all the pleasure from swinging and you aren't doing some kind of hobby with her that she loves but that you don't really like, then she's going to start thinking that you're selfish and will resent you and your swinging activities.

 

 

There was something in your posts that bothered me and I think it's that you said:

 

I accepted her word and believed her that she did not fuck him but that was before she told me she did it out of revenge.

 

Yet you also said:

 

I was turned on by the story but I also had serious doubts and issues. We continued to argue about that night for many months. I was always analyzing and doubting her story. I mean seriously I go and fuck a bunch of women and she doesnt have sex with the guy she was with alone in a room!?!?!

 

So, did you really believe her or were you just trying to convince yourself that you did? I have to admit, trust between spouses can be very hard to put together after it's broken. It's like breaking a fine vase...you might be able to get the big piece glued back together and some of the smaller ones, but there will be little, itty bitty shards that you can't find and put back. Sometimes you can refill those missing parts with renewed trust or they can make the vase crumble again. Either you are insecure about yourself/your relationship with her or something happened in the past to make you suspicious. Whatever it is, you both need to figure it out and strengthen your relationship before doing any more swinging activities.

 

And yes, a person does have the ability to not have sex with another person that they are alone in a room in. I've done it several times, completely naked. There were specific rules/requests of me and I honored them. Going any further would be a disrespect to Mr. Sunbuckus, our relationship, our trust, and our love.

 

Another thing is whether you two have talked before about hall passes, had experiences with hall passes, and what both of you thought about it. You know that joke about how women say, "I'm fine," or "It's fine," when in actually, nothing is fine? As two4you stated, words are one thing, actions are another. Mr. Sunbuckus knows when things are not fine with me, even when I say they are. He knows me that well by the inflections in my voice and my body language.

 

As others have pointed out, clearly there are issues within yourself--jealousy, insecurity, control, etc. But for some reason, from your posts, I just get this feeling that one or both of you aren't completely honest with each other. It could be that she's not honest to you about how swinging is making her miserable. Perhaps "she does really enjoy it" but rules and boundaries aren't being clearly communicated. Maybe you don't really enjoy the thought of her having fun with another man, that you don't know and trust, and it took a hall pass to make you realize that. Perhaps she doesn't really like watching you have sex with other women but she says that she does because your happiness means more to her than how it makes her feel. What ever may be the case, it is very clear that you do not trust your wife because you are always asking, doubting, and asking her the same questions as if you don't believe the first answer so you keep badgering until you get a different one that you think makes more sense.

 

Human beings are so funny sometimes. We don't realize how much harder it is on ourselves and others when we aren't completely honest. Sometimes we tell "little white lies" to spare other people's feelings. Sometimes we do it to spare our own. And for others, they just do it because they don't know how to be honest. But it's a lot harder to maintain keeping up a lie than telling the truth. I really do hope that you two can work things out and be truly honest with each other and yourselves. As SW, funcouple, and maui have suggested, a more experienced, knowledgeable counselor/therapist might be of more help for you and your wife. They are very wise and I recommend listening to their advice.

[km34 672]

The National Coalition for Sexual Freedom also has a directory of kink-aware professionals - you can search that by location and type of professional here. Generally any counselor listed as kink-friendly, poly-friendly, or sex positive will be knowledgeable about swinging, too.

[lora-adam 15]

I have already made up my mind about talking to a therapist. I've called several today and will interview each of them as they call me back. I don't sleep very well due to the stresses of running a company. My wife has noticed that Im more anxious we i dont sleep well after a few days. So maybe talking to a shrink will help me in that area as well!

[lora-adam 15]

Lora & I talked a lot this weekend. She is adamant about not stopping swinging. She doesn't even want a break.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

Lora & I talked a lot this weekend. She is adamant about not stopping swinging. She doesnt even want a break.

 

That sounds like a rather large problem. Does she understand that continuing to swing in current circumstances is going to be detrimental to your relationship?

[slevin 1,374]

I think perhaps SHE is fine with the LS, however YOU need to step back.

 

I'd say if she really did do something with the single guy out of revenge then she needs to step back too.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

Lora & I talked a lot this weekend. She is adamant about not stopping swinging. She doesnt even want a break.

 

You were honest to her about how you felt and how you want to concentrate on strengthening the relationship you two have before doing any more swinging activities? If that is the case, and she is refusing to take a break, then there is something going on. If you weren't clear about how you felt about needing to take a break, then perhaps you two should talk some more until she realizes that you both need to step back.

[lora-adam 15]

We both talked at great length over the weekend. Let me tell you how our weekend went. We decided to go out Friday night. We ended up going to dinner then to the swing club. When we got there we hit it off with a cute younger couple. I could see that they were interested in us and from what they were saying to us it seemed that the other woman (she seemed a bit submissive) wanted my wife to get things going. I whispered in Lora's ear and asked her if she was cool with playing with this couple. She said yes. I then told her that I think they want you to make the first move on the other woman. Well Lora never made the move. I was getting frustrated with the situation as it was getting late and the couple was loosing interest. So I leaned over and told Lora we are leaving. She could see I was irritated and we ended up getting into an argument on the way home. I told her that we need to stop swinging and the reasons why.

 

I feel like we are only swinging one-sided.

 

It's very frustrating when we meet a compatible couple that she does not send them signal flirting, touching,.... I was certainly flirting with her (the other woman) Lora was not flirting with the other guy or woman. If she was not interested in playing with them then why did she tell me she was?

 

Lora does not help me with meeting people on SLS or other websites (she has actually never even looked at the sites or our profiles).

 

On Saturday and Sunday we talked more. She told me that she does like swinging and that she isn't doing it just for me but for her as well. She again told me she is happy if I am the only one who get lucky. She then went on and said that she gets cold feet when it actually comes down to doing the deed. She says its because she doesn't feel sexy. I told her you probably dont feel sexy because you dont think about sex (she has told me that she does not think about sex at work because she is a H.S. teacher and that she doesn't want to think about her coworkers or students like that; she even goes as far as not wearing sexy panties, she wears granny panties, at work). I told her being sexy is a state of mind and if she doesn't think about sex or being sexy she wont be sexy. Lora actually agreed with me on this. She told me that she does not need to have sex with others. I told her then why are we swinging. She said because she likes the atmosphere.

 

I made it clear to her that when we go to a swing party the goal is to get laid. Sure have fun meet new people and everything else but the bottom line is we all want to get laid. Right? I told her I was going to cancel the next swingers cruise we were going on in 2013 and she told me not too because she has so much fun on them.

 

So anyway that's where we are. Limbo

[lora-adam 15]

You were honest to her about how you felt and how you want to concentrate on strengthening the relationship you two have before doing any more swinging activities? If that is the case, and she is refusing to take a break, then there is something going on. If you weren't clear about how you felt about needing to take a break, then perhaps you two should talk some more until she realizes that you both need to step back.

 

yes I was honest and I believe she was with me as well. She said the only issues with our relationship is my anxiety/paranoia. I told her that my concerns about one-sided swinging made me a bit suspicious and worried that she might end up resenting me in the future. I again told her that one of the reasons I want to swing is to watch her. I never brought up the revenge incident as this would have caused us to further divide.

 

What do you mean by this? "If that is the case, and she is refusing to take a break, then there is something going on."

 

if you mean she is having an affair I seriously doubt it as there are no signs and I mean ZERO.

[lora-adam 15]

That sounds like a rather large problem. Does she understand that continuing to swing in current circumstances is going to be detrimental to your relationship?

 

She does not believe that the issues in our relationship require us to stop swinging.

[lora-adam 15]

Some of the other things she has said to me. She does not have time to think about sex. She does not have the time to surf SLS or other sites. Sex is not a major thing in her life as I take care of her plenty good. She is fine with me arranging swinging events ie; dates, going to clubs parties,...

[sunbuckus 3,567]

 

What do you mean by this? "If that is the case, and she is refusing to take a break, then there is something going on."

 

if you mean she is having an affair I seriously doubt it as there are no signs and I mean ZERO.

 

If you are requesting a break and she is refusing, there must be a reason why she doesn't want to. It doesn't have to mean she's having an affair. If either one of you need a break from the LS and tell the other, it should be universal that a break in order because you are swing for the both of you, not just one of you. And especially since you are the one that is supposed to be going out and having sex with other women and "she rarely plays" then why would she refuse to take a break?

 

Some of the other things she has said to me. She does not have time to think about sex. She does not have the time to surf SLS or other sites. Sex is not a major thing in her life as I take care of her plenty good. She is fine with me arranging swinging events ie; dates, going to clubs parties,...

 

Since you are the one doing the arranging of swinging events, just don't arrange anything for a few months.

[slevin 1,374]

I then told her that I think they want you to make the first move on the other woman. Well lora never made the move. I was getting frustrated with the situation as it was getting late and the couple was loosing interest. So I leaned over and told lora we are leaving. She could see I was irritated and we ended up getting into an argument on the way home. I told her that we need to stop swinging and the reasons why.

 

I am not surprised. You got irritated that she didn't make things happen with another couple, then in an argument after that told her you wanted to stop? Of course she said she didn't want to. You were angry about things not going the way you wanted them to and in the fall out from that you said you wanted to stop. To her I am sure she felt like she had to say she wanted to continue. It was likely her way of trying to make you happy; if she agreed to stopping, maybe she worried you would get more irritated...

 

Those kinds of discussions need to happen away from swinging activities when you're both calm. A conversation that isn't linked to a specific event; just an open conversation. You can be a lot more open, honest and non-confrontational in those circumstances.

 

Honestly, if it went down the way you described it I kind of feel like it's a bit emotionally abusive. I am not saying you are unilaterally emotionally abusive, but getting irritated because she didn't make things happen like you wanted, then fighting over it and finally telling her you want to quit? That comes across as manipulative at best. It definitely highlights a communication issue IMO.

 

Something to think about when you talk with your therapist.

[lora-adam 15]

I am not surprised. You got irritated that she didn't make things happen with another couple, then in an argument after that told her you wanted to stop? Of course she said she didn't want to. You were angry about things not going the way you wanted them to and in the fall out from that you said you wanted to stop. To her I am sure she felt like she had to say she wanted to continue. It was likely her way of trying to make you happy; if she agreed to stopping, maybe she worried you would get more irritated...

 

Those kinds of discussions need to happen away from swinging activities when you're both calm. A conversation that isn't linked to a specific event; just an open conversation. You can be a lot more open, honest and non-confrontational in those circumstances.

 

Honestly, if it went down the way you described it I kind of feel like it's a bit emotionally abusive. I am not saying you are unilaterally emotionally abusive, but getting irritated because she didn't make things happen like you wanted, then fighting over it and finally telling her you want to quit? That comes across as manipulative at best. It definitely highlights a communication issue IMO.

 

Something to think about when you talk with your therapist.

 

We did talk calmly on saturday and sunday.We did not raise our voices at all (we had no choice as her parents we visiting us for the weekend). Our conversation (sat & sun) about swinging was a general conversation about why we should or should not continue in the LS and not any specific event. We did take a four month break (at her request well over a year ago) and we did not restart swinging until she wanted to.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

This sounds more like a stand-off than limbo. You sound resentful and as if the two of you are not only not on the same page, you're not reading the same book. In addition, I agree with sunbuckus that if you are the one arranging the club visits and meetings, then just don't for awhile. Not in a punitive, "Well, fine, I'll just cancel the cruise!" sort of way, but in the absence of opportunities that you arrange.

 

In addition, you both might do a whole lot more talking before you make any more visits to swing clubs. If your wife isn't, by your lights, doing it right, pushing her into settings where she has to act sexy, be sexy or approach others for sex is not going to turn out well.

[lora-adam 15]

This sounds more like a stand-off than limbo. You sound resentful and as if the two of you are not only not on the same page, you're not reading the same book. In addition, I agree with sunbuckus that if you are the one arranging the club visits and meetings, then just don't for awhile. Not in a punitive, "Well, fine, I'll just cancel the cruise!" sort of way, but in the absence of opportunities that you arrange.

 

In addition, you both might do a whole lot more talking before you make any more visits to swing clubs. If your wife isn't, by your lights, doing it right, pushing her into settings where she has to act sexy, be sexy or approach others for sex is not going to turn out well.

 

Ive told her this before that we are not on the same page when it comes to swinging. The only reason I really want to stop swinging is because I am worried about her becoming resentful of me screwing other women. BTW when I say screwing other women lora is always with me and she does participate (touching, kissing, sex with me, oral from the other woman). I dont just leave her while I go and bang some other woman. Maybe I will just drop the subject for a while.

[Guest sandraandalex]

Have you noticed that whatever the facts you are given, that you refuse to believe them, despite having no real evidence to the contrary, just your own jealous mind. You are repeatedly told that 2 + 2 equals 4, yet you are convinced in trying to make it five, thirty, 112, etc, when it remains 4.

[lora-adam 15]

Have you noticed that whatever the facts you are given, that you refuse to believe them, despite having no real evidence to the contrary, just your own jealous mind. You are repeatedly told that 2 + 2 equals 4, yet you are convinced in trying to make it five, thirty, 112, etc, when it remains 4.

 

Yes, I have noticed.

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

I think you two have two different perceptions on what swinging is about. I tend to lean more toward what your wife is saying. You say the point of swinging is to get laid. She seems to be saying the point is for you to have sexy, adult experiences. She has fun dressing up, being around the wild crowd, she doesn't really need the thrill of strange sex to enjoy it. When she doesn't perform to your standards, ie. initiating with the other woman, you threaten to cancel a vacation she is looking forward to?!

 

I would step back and go at your wife's pace. Stop planning meetings, trying to get together with people online. Don't tell her that you are done with swinging, just relax a bit. The end goal is not to get laid, it's to enhance your life together. Go to the club and just play with each other a couple times. Let her make the first move with people you meet at the club.

[JM153 346]

You do seem to describe two different purposes at work at the club. You are there to get laid by another woman and your wife is there to enjoy the sexy atmosphere and eventually get laid by you - maybe at home. I understand both. The open and free atmosphere at a club can be a great turn on without there being a goal. On the other hand if your used to going to a bar to get lucky then a club can serve that goal as well. I think you need to listen to what your wife is saying. She is telling you she does not go to the club with the goal for her to get laid. She is OK if you have that goal and you get it fulfilled. She is also saying she does not want to initiate anything. On that Friday night once she said she was interested in the couple you could have taken the lead. You could ask them if they wanted to go play. You could have gotten the guy aside and told him if he wanted to play with your wife then he needed to be the aggressor. There are many ways you could have moved the ball. I don't know why your wife does not want to initiate, although I can come up with some theories. I don't know that the why is all that important. So along with all the other great advice you have received, I would suggest you accept what she is telling you and act accordingly. Good luck.

[lora-adam 15]

I think you two have two different perceptions on what swinging is about. I tend to lean more toward what your wife is saying. You say the point of swinging is to get laid. She seems to be saying the point is for you to have sexy, adult experiences. She has fun dressing up, being around the wild crowd, she doesn't really need the thrill of strange sex to enjoy it. When she doesn't perform to your standards, ie. initiating with the other woman, you threaten to cancel a vacation she is looking forward to?!

 

I would step back and go at your wife's pace. Stop planning meetings, trying to get together with people online. Don't tell her that you are done with swinging, just relax a bit. The end goal is not to get laid, it's to enhance your life together. Go to the club and just play with each other a couple times. Let her make the first move with people you meet at the club.

 

I agree with you. Sometimes I forget that this is about us having fun.

[lora-adam 15]

You do seem to describe two different purposes at work at the club. You are there to get laid by another woman and your wife is there to enjoy the sexy atmosphere and eventually get laid by you - maybe at home. I understand both. The open and free atmosphere at a club can be a great turn on without there being a goal. On the other hand if your used to going to a bar to get lucky then a club can serve that goal as well. I think you need to listen to what your wife is saying. She is telling you she does not go to the club with the goal for her to get laid. She is OK if you have that goal and you get it fulfilled. She is also saying she does not want to initiate anything. On that Friday night once she said she was interested in the couple you could have taken the lead. You could ask them if they wanted to go play. You could have gotten the guy aside and told him if he wanted to play with your wife then he needed to be the aggressor. There are many ways you could have moved the ball. I don't know why your wife does not want to initiate, although I can come up with some theories. I don't know that the why is all that important. So along with all the other great advice you have received, I would suggest you accept what she is telling you and act accordingly. Good luck.

 

Great advice. I agree. As I stated with funcoupledayton I sometimes forget why we are swinging.

[Guest freeflyer200]

It's entirely possible the wife is having no problem at all. She is probably a voyeur and gets what she wants. This has made you uneasy and guilty but you should not be. You have become accustomed to this and found yourself getting paranoid and jealous. You have control issues you need to acknowledge and get over. You clearly like to control everything and she has accommodated herself to this. I bet she is more than fine with the status quo. Chill out, let go, enjoy. You think too much. If she is screwing someone else so what? The so what for you is, that it would be out of your control. You become anxious and angry then because of any independence on her part. Your wife is a peach. Hang on to her.