Hubby trying to force me to cross boundry

[Pink_Panther 15]

Hello all

 

I am brand new to the forum and relatively new to the swinging scene. I never even considered it before my husband and I met. About three months into our relationship he told me that he'd always had fantasies about multiple men and one woman, and he would like to see me as that woman being completely fulfilled. He also told me that he was curious about being with another man, and would like to experience both situations. At first I was mortified...how could he actually want to see another man touching me...so he gave me some stories to read on wife watching, etc. I told him that I couldn't do it because I could never watch him with another woman or even have another woman in the room. I am very insecure about myself and my body, always have been. He told me that he wasn't interested in that at all...he wanted to see me with multiple men touching me and wanted to know what it was like himself. After voicing a concern that if I went through with it, that he would come back to me later and ask to have a woman brought in since I'd been with other men. He assured me that would never happen.

 

We agreed to try the MFM once and if either of us didn't like it, we would never go back. So we started an online account. The rules were that we only read messages together, that if one of us didn't like something about a prospective partner he was out of the question, only hubby would go to meet the guy initially to protect me, and nothing would continue in the bedroom when one of the two of us left for a minute.

 

That lasted for about a year. We had probably 8 experiences over that year. I discovered I really enjoyed watching my husband with the other men (only oral activities) and the look on my husband's face as he was watching me was amazing. I became almost addicted to watching his face and the huge smile on it.

 

Just before our last experience, he said he was in contact with the first guy we men...who now had a girlfriend. His girlfriend was bi-sexual and my husband wanted to invite the two of them over. I told him absolutely not...that we had agreed no women at the very beginning and my view had not changed. He started with the what if's....what if there was no swapping...just two couples having sex next to each other, what if he just watched, what if he just took pictures, etc. He'd been drinking and got very angry with me that I wouldn't invite this woman over. Told me I was f***'d in the head if I couldn't handle seeing him with another woman but I was fine with seeing him with another man, and that we would just end the swinging style period. The next day he told me that he'd invited another guy we'd been with before over and continued with trying to convince me to have another woman there. When I opened his phone for him to respond to a message for him...it was on a text conversation with first guy telling him to bring his girlfriend over cause I was really into it. Only the second (single) guy showed up and that was our last experience.

 

Since then our sex life has really hit a low. One, maybe two times a month. I'm always willing for him and I to go at it at any time, and he knows that...just he doesn't seem interested.

 

A few months ago he came to me early one morning and told me that he was setting up the online account again so we could have some fun over the summer, and that he wanted me to work on our profile. When I opened it up, I noticed he had looking for 'women, couples (man and woman)' included in what we were interested in. I asked "we are looking for man and woman couples now? He said yes, that he thought it would be fun for us to get together with another couple. I basically started to have an anxiety attack...my eyes welled up, my heart started thumping, my hands started shaking, and my whole body went cold like someone dumped ice water over me. He looked at me and saw my reaction, got angry and told me to just delete the account...that he'd just chalk it up to $40 bucks down the drain.

 

Nothing else has been mentioned about it. When I tried he refused to talk...said that one of us would just end up getting p****d off. Case closed

 

Three weeks ago he went out of town for work, about 3 1/2 hour distance. A week ago he decided to open up an online account again, telling me about it 3 days after he did so. He said he wants to look for men and couples for us to play with when I go up there some weekends.

 

I told him from the very beginning that I was not comfortable with other women and he agreed that he would never ask me to do that. I do not find the thought of another woman touching me appealing, nor am I at all interested in touching one.

 

Am I in the wrong for going along with him in having other men in our bedroom when I knew I would not be able to handle other women? Or is he in the wrong for trying to force me into having women involved (or at least in the room)...and for starting up a profile again without consulting me first...?

 

Am I asking too much?

[ViSexual 1,008]

You are certainly not asking too much! You knew your boundaries and was honest with your husband from the beginning. I can understand his wanting to expand things to include another female but he should understand your feelings too. It's not like you misled him in any way.

 

I'm afraid that if you were to give in to him about adding 'couples' to your play that he'd just come up with something even more later on.

 

Have you thought about counseling? You might do some googling and see if you can find a lifestyle-friendly counselor there. Maybe a neutral opinion would help him understand. It's sort of sounding like an addiction with him.

[Pink_Panther 15]

I'm afraid that if you were to give in to him about adding 'couples' to your play that he'd just come up with something even more later on.

 

That is what I thought too. I even contemplated having another woman play with me as long as I wasn't required to touch, so my husband could watch or take pictures...but I thought that would be like opening pandoras box. That once he was allowed to bring that other woman in, that he would eventually ask for more.

 

As far as counseling, my husband is very against that (was forced to go in the past with previous wife). He is also a very over-reactive person initially, and then calms down to think about things. That can take hours, or it can take months.

[KMCouple 156]

(Male half) My humble two cents...

 

The more I personally get into, and the more people I see around me, get into relationships with open sexual boundaries, a few things have struck me as common threads.

 

Compromise is HARD, if not IMPOSSIBLE, in sexual situations. While I think the ability to compromise is vital to a healthy relationship, I think it can be detrimental when it comes to sexual boundaries. This is supposed to be about fun, openness, and communication. When you compromise "Well, I don't really like women, but I will let one touch me..." you are not having fun. You are not feeling safe and secure. This is not helping you improve your relationship with your husband.

 

Without getting into all the nitty gritty details, my last girlfriend was bi, and was OPEN to the idea of a threesome. When the opportunity arose with a single female friend of mine, I charged in. We played, and it was fun. At first.

 

Eventually, the nature of the situation pushed my gf way beyond her comfort zone. The specifics aren't really important. The point is, as the guy, I kept pushing and pleading and reasoning why we should do "X" or keep doing "Y" or not worry about "Z". And you are right, when she gave an inch, I took it as permission to take the next one.

 

Lesson learned? You can't 'reason' your way through these things. Clear up misunderstandings? Sure. We had a few of those, and things improved when we got on same page. Change emotions when all the facts are on the table? Not a chance.

 

Bottom line: My gf felt a certain way about the situation, and her continuing to feel badly hurt the relationship. Didn't matter what I thought or felt, our relationship suffered.

 

This stuff HAS to be mutual! HAS TO!

 

Here's my thing. My last three relationships have had other partners involved.

 

Ex wife and I had HUGE problems, which lead significantly towards our divorce, when she wanted an open relationship and didn't respect my feelings and did things I had problems with.

 

Ex gf and I had HUGE problems, which lead significantly towards our breakup, when I pushed her to continue in a threesome/semi-poly situation she was uncomfortable with.

 

Current gf and I are currently having NO problems with openness in our relationship, because we communicate, and have both flat out agreed "If this isn't fun, we stop. We don't NEED this. It is just to make our relationship better, not worse"

 

And it's true, at lease I can say that 100% on my end. After my prior experience, if she says she's not happy, I AM DONE. PERIOD. But this is a hard lesson. Especially for guys, that may want something so badly. I might suggest showing this to your hubby. My point is I only learned this lesson AFTER it severely hurt my relationships. I'm hopefully saving you both some trouble.

 

One thing I will defend him on: I was pushed into counseling as well. I hated it. I did it, but without an open mind, it went badly. And it went even worse when the therapist liked and recommended to my wife some of my suggestions I put forth in counseling, and then she rejected them.

 

Also, I am like him in that sometimes I have severe emotional reactions, recognize them, and recognize that it is better if I take some time to cool down. I HATE HATE HATE it when I am pressed during this time, especially when I have asked for time to cool off. So I would say give space when needed. But if he is still 'processing' I would not move forward with swinging while he is in an emotional place.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

I told him from the very beginning that I was not comfortable with other women and he agreed that he would never ask me to do that. I do not find the thought of another woman touching me appealing, nor am I at all interested in touching one.

 

Am I in the wrong for going along with him in having other men in our bedroom when I knew I would not be able to handle other women? Or is he in the wrong for trying to force me into having women involved (or at least in the room)...and for starting up a profile again without consulting me first...?

 

Am I asking too much?

 

Honestly, it doesn't matter what we think about your choices, nor is it at all important who is in the wrong in this situation. What does matter is that the two of you have been engaging in the high risk sport of sex outside your marriage without the necessary communication, respect and boundaries that would make it a relationship enhancer. That things went swimmingly so long as everything stayed within your comfort zone doesn't mean it used to be good with the two of you and now it's not. It just means you hadn't encountered particular stressors. Now you have and the fact that you two aren't anything like on the same page is readily apparent.

 

It doesn't matter that your husband won't go to counseling. Find a sex positive therapist and make an appointment for yourself. Then go and keep going. In the meantime stay away from any sort of sex outside your marriage.

[M&S 266]

I agree with mauijanedoe but would also encourage you to think whether these issues are deeper than just sex. I may be reading too much into your post, but it seems your husband is seriously and chronically abusing your trust and the boundaries in your relationship and acting like a child and a first rate a**hole. It is one thing to ask about expanding your rules and even applying some ongoing pressure, but to act unilaterally and then sulk when he doesnt getbhis way. Gimme a break swinging is for big kids....

 

I am sure it will come out if you choose counseling, my two cents would be for you to think seriously about the terms on which is relationship works for you. Everyone deserves to be in a relationsship that makes them happy (and you may be - I may just be reading too much into what you have written)

[km34 672]

If you agree to have a woman touch you when you don't really want that, you are agreeing to let yourself be sexually violated. Is your husband prepared to deal with the issues that you being violated could cause?

 

I agree with everyone who has said stop all extramarital sex until you're on the same page. Hubby needs time to process? Fine, but that doesn't mean you need to keep doing anything. He's been blatantly manipulative, deceptive (inviting other people over without your consent, lying to those people about your enthusiasm, making accounts THEN telling you about them, etc), and disrespectful to your very clearly communicated boundaries. This is not a recipe for healthy swinging; it's a recipe for disaster.

[sunbuckus 3,569]

Give a mouse a cookie and then he'll ask for milk....

 

To me, your entire post gives me the . Even though we only have one side and not everything is divulged in an online forum post, there's something about it that puts me on the brink of an anxiety attack for you. I have to agree with M&S, this seems to be just the tip of the iceberg and maybe an indicator of the dynamics within your marriage. How well do you two communicate? How open and honest are the both of you during your discussions? And how willing are the both of you in terms of listening to each others desires, requests, rules, and limits? I said listen...that doesn't mean agreeing to do it. Rules and limits are there to protect what the couple is comfortable in doing with each other and the ones that they play with. From time to time, the couple can discuss if those rules still apply, work, or if they need to be changed or eliminated. From the sounds of your post, it doesn't sound like there is too much communication going on between the both of you, which is necessary to make swinging-related activities work for your relationship, not against it. This doesn't just apply to swinging...but to relationships in general. Perhaps at the beginning of your marriage, you both agreed that you would cook dinner every day. Maybe after a few weeks/months/years, you find that this doesn't work for you anymore. Then that should be discussed between you two and you can work out a better arrangement.

 

From what you have told us, he has arranged activities without your knowledge and without your consent. This does not show any respect for you, your requests or desires. If you hated cooking fish and have told him repeatedly that you have no interest in eating or cooking it and he brings home a big filet of fish every so often for you to prepare, how would that make you feel? You would feel that he isn't listening to you nor is he respecting your boundaries. In my humble opinion, you both need to stop any and all swinging activity, do some good heart-to-heart discussions over a period of days/weeks/months and work on the core of your relationship. As some on the forum have stated, some people aren't cut out for swinging...perhaps the same is true for relationships; some don't have the foundation for swinging.

 

**Just a side note: for some couples, doing threesomes can be a gateway to couple swapping...and that transfer can be successful. However, there are some that feel that couples engaging in threesomes first induce an imbalance where one half of the couple gets to play with a "new toy" while the other does not. This can sometimes lead to resentment in the partner that does not/cannot play with a "new toy". Only in couple swapping can both halves of a couple have a "new toy", have an "equal" experience, and learn and grow from it. The realization that sex is fun, sex does not define love, "sharing" your partner and knowing that they will still go home with you can be quite liberating for a couple.

 

***Also, the wording of your title for this post says it all. It is very clear that you feel that he is forcing you to do something you do not want to do. Please take all of the other posters' advice, for they are wise and very experienced in these matters.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

You stated your boundaries up front and he agreed to them. You are not in the wrong.

 

He is being immature in trying to push you to do something that you have no interest, or desire to do. As long as you have not given him any mixed signals to make him think that there is any reason you may have changed your mind, then he is absolutely in the wrong.

[twistedpretzels 100]

We had our little bumps along the way and at times it was very difficult for me. From emails all of sudden not BBC to me, to solo swinging, then to attempting a solo poly relationship without me involved and presented as a surprise to me ... and other stuff with that issue too.... Now Pete gives me all of the control of contacting (although he is free to contact too) and meeting folks. Just recently he wanted to date an x gf. I said NO! (thank you SB!!!)-- but he responded with 'oh okay. no biggie' and i felt like we turned a big corner. I can say one thing. My boundaries have changed and developed over time but they did this on my own time line not pushed by Pete. I like what JOE said. And JAJ was succient in her message. Read it everyday. Best wishes.

[Hippiegirlie 276]

(Male half) My humble two cents...

 

"Well, I don't really like women, but I will let one touch me..." you are not having fun. You are not feeling safe and secure. This is not helping you improve your relationship with your husband.

 

I can tell you from a bi-female's perspective that I would not be having fun either. There is no fun in being the unaware third party in the middle of an uncomfortable situation between two people who are supposed to be lovingly respecting and enhancing each other's lives. It is just as uncomfortable from my side, feeling as if you were coerced into a situation you were not interested in. I have been in that situation and it has never ended well... honestly every time I ended up leaving quite abruptly with nothing more than a suggestion that the couple should talk and figure things out before they invite someone into their bed. Please, respect yourself, your thoughts and your feelings enough to know who you are and what you are ready for. No one has the right to make your decisions for you.

[Pink_Panther 15]

I wanted to thank everyone for their comments so far. I would never ask him to do something he doesn't want to do, I believe I deserve the same respect.

 

At first the communication was very open, but as time went on the lack of it got worse and worse. I would like to find a way for him to actually talk about things like we used to, but he just gets mad and walks away. I told him we need to work at getting our marriage back on track, this is his idea of how to do it. I do not agree...I think it would just complicate the situation...and reading some of the replies so far, I'm not the only one who thinks so.

[ViSexual 1,008]

Can you get him here? I think I can speak for everyone here that nobody would be judgmental. It wouldn't be as good as a counselor but it also wouldn't be nearly as threatening to him either. And, after all, this is where couples come for resources, help, and advice.

[Pink_Panther 15]

Can't see it going over well. He believes he is right in everything and I have no reason to be upset...then he puts up a wall around him to block out anyone who tries to tell him differently. Our relationship is not the best at the moment, and this is how he thinks we should fix it...by getting back into swinging completely under his control. I've really started to wonder if there is something else hidden there (other than the obvious control issues)... I've wondered a few times if he was interested in TVs and hermaphrodites by a few comments he's made and just didn't want to tell me that, worried what my thoughts might be...and that is why he might be withholding the password for online profile, so he can check that out alone.

[sunbuckus 3,569]

Oh, Pink. I don't have anything positive to add after what you said. I just want to give you a hug. *hug* I really hope he turns around and doesn't force swinging upon you to fix your relationship.

[Pink_Panther 15]

I'd like to think so too Sunbuckus, but deep down I don't think he will. He'd have to admit to being wrong in some things and take responsibility...not his favourite things to do.