Getting closer to wanting to swing, but causing friction in relationship

[idon'tknow 15]

Mrs. Idon'tknow and I celebrated our 13th last week. It was great. since the last time I was on.... We've talked, she's gotten drunk and gotten mad and been totally irrational about things, I've talked her out of those irrational things (mainly that "no, I want to keep doing this. We're not going to stop just because you're a little drunk and have given up on me ever wanting to do this") I've changed our SLS profile a number of times (Ihaveacuriouswife, if anyone is interested). I initiated contact with another couple and I've been texting back and forth with the female of that couple and mrs idon'tknow started texting the male half of the couple yesterday; just 'getting to know you' stuff. I told them that I'm not ready for anything right now but what I need is a good understanding couple who can kinda hold my hand through the whole process. They could be that couple. Oddly enough the dude and I work for the same company, but he works in a totally different department that occasionally passes patients off to me. Small world.

 

last night mrs idon'tknow thought I was angry with her because I wanted her to want to share "texts" and stuff with me, but only because it was something she wanted to do and not because she felt obligated to share with me because I wanted her to. Does that make sense? When I've asked, "so, what's he have to say?" She says, "here, if you WANT to read it read it. I don't care." Well honestly I don't really care either, but I'm not going to read it because she thinks I WANT to read it (emphasis on the WANT). I figure this is about "us". I don't even ask her if she wants to read the texts or emails between me and the female, I either hand her my phone or forward her the email and say, "check this out". I want her to read it, I want her to be part of what I'm doing, I can't tell if she really wants me to be part of what she's doing and I'm not sure how that makes me feel. Am I being totally irrational? Or is this just a small communication break down that I need to be more clear on?

 

(this is more cathartic for me to share it with someone(s) even if it's anonymously online. I appreciate the venue)

[SW_PA_Couple 4,024]

If you're looking for catharsis, I hope you have acheived it.

 

I have reviewed your earler posts. If you have come here looking for validation, I am not going to be able to provide it. How people younger than the age of forty can be successful in the swing lifestyle, I cannot apprehend. The emotions at this age are just too intense. Wait ten years and try again.

[angelkin 1,326]

Seems even the simple sharing of text messages is creating friction in your relationship. I have to agree with SW, seems you should wait to move forward with swinging. IMHO, she should want you to read her conversations, and not because you need to check up on her, but to share her excitement and enthusiam. Since she is the one pushing swinging in the relationship, she shold be totally open and moving at your comfort level and that's not happening.

[dovedark 15]

How people younger than the age of forty can be successful in the swing lifestyle, I cannot apprehend. The emotions at this age are just too intense. Wait ten years and try again.

 

Even though Hubby and I just joined LS ( and have hardly any experience to back our opinions up) I utterly agree with this statement. We look the 20 -35 somethings and say too young. Not because of physical age but because we don't feel that they know who they are yet. Ie: maturity. I'm not saying that everyone in that age bracket is not aware of who they are and what they want but my life experience tells me they aren't and I don't want to see anyone get hurt or ruin their relationship because of a lack of life experience.

Just my 2 cents..

[Tobacouple 111]

If you're looking for catharsis, I hope you have acheived it.

 

I have reviewed your earler posts. If you have come here looking for validation, I am not going to be able to provide it. How people younger than the age of forty can be successful in the swing lifestyle, I cannot apprehend. The emotions at this age are just too intense. Wait ten years and try again.

 

Seems even the simple sharing of text messages is creating friction in your relationship. I have to agree with SW, seems you should wait to move forward with swinging. IMHO, she should want you to read her conversations, and not because you need to check up on her, but to share her excitement and enthusiam. Since she is the one pushing swinging in the relationship, she shold be totally open and moving at your comfort level and that's not happening.

 

Listen to both of these posts. It's good advice IMHO. You may not be ready to swing, she may think she is, but she's not either. Work on your marriage and communications for a few more years.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

I don't think success at swinging is necessarily tied to age, because wisdom and an even temperament are not specifically age related qualities, but I'm going to join in the chorus saying that neither of you is ready for this. You can't even manage something so unchallenging as exchanging text messages with another couple without a kerfluffle, and text messages is to rubbing pink bits together as kindergarten is to a PhD program.

 

last night mrs idon'tknow thought I was angry with her because I wanted her to want to share "texts" and stuff with me' date=' but only because it was something she wanted to do and not because she felt obligated to share with me because I wanted her to. Does that make sense? When I've asked, "so, what's he have to say?" She says, "here, if you WANT to read it read it. I don't care." Well honestly I don't really care either, but I'm not going to read it because she thinks I WANT to read it (emphasis on the WANT). I figure this is about "us". I don't even ask her if she wants to read the texts or emails between me and the female, I either hand her my phone or forward her the email and say, "check this out". I want her to read it, I want her to be part of what I'm doing, I can't tell if she really wants me to be part of what she's doing and I'm not sure how that makes me feel. [/quote']

 

And here I'm going to take gross advantage of having also read your previous posts and say that the aggregate has convinced me that you and your wife do not communicate well. You do not communicate with grace, with love, with kindness, with understanding. You are not in a shared activity at all, actually, and your doubts about whether you're ready are quite valid. You're not, not either one of you, unless you'd really like to be on the short road to a divorce.

 

Am I being totally irrational? Or is this just a small communication break down that I need to be more clear on?

 

This isn't a communication breakdown, small or large. It is more like a giant chasm between those qualities needed to successfully swing and your current relationship. It also is the equivalent of a poster child for drama, combining as it does multiple levels of immaturity, lack of shared purpose and the absence of good communication.

[slevin 1,374]

You are not in a shared activity at all, actually, and your doubts about whether you're ready are quite valid. You're not, not either one of you, unless you'd really like to be on the short road to a divorce.

 

Even without the other posts even this post points to that. There is a lot of "I" and not any "we" throughout the post.

[idon'tknow 15]

Even without the other posts even this post points to that. There is a lot of "I" and not any "we" throughout the post.

 

This is something i've pointed out to her a lot over our last 13 years. She uses a lot of "I" statements, I use a lot of "we" statements. A lot of it may be cultural.

 

And here I'm going to take gross advantage of having also read your previous posts and say that the aggregate has convinced me that you and your wife do not communicate well. You do not communicate with grace, with love, with kindness, with understanding. You are not in a shared activity at all, actually, and your doubts about whether you're ready are quite valid. You're not, not either one of you, unless you'd really like to be on the short road to a divorce.

 

yes. We had quite the communication break down last night (that we overcame quite well, which wouldn't have happened 2 months ago... nothing to do with swinging, something completely different, but swinging came up. read on....). During the resolution phase she brought up the texting thing again, essentially she said that

 

1: by me wanting her to want her to want to share she feels like I'm being possessive (she actually compared it to our man-child friend who is actually quite possessive of her friendship and will occasionally try to read her texts over her shoulder. I've never done that). She said she feels like it should be kinda private, I disagreed and shared with her why, if we're going to do this, everything has to be about us. That if he's texting her, or I'm texting his spouse, that it's not just me or her that's doing it, it's us. She understood me a little better last night, and even though we're no where near resolving this, we're closer.

2: She's fearful that if i do read some of the things she texts I'll get jealous or angry (it's important to note here that I'm not really an angry type of guy, I don't do angry, honestly I've done angry one time in our 13 years of marriage and I didn't do it because I was angry, I faked it cause I wanted to see if she would actually listen to me if I acted really really angry--this was years ago--it worked but it wasn't me, so I don't do angry). Jealousy... I don't know, the jury is still out on that one. It's also important to note that I'm her 2nd husband, her first was a fiasco where there was a lot of cheating on his part and a lot of abuse (sexual, physical and emotional). She was actually the first woman I'd ever met from her ethnicity who stood up to her culture and said "fuck you all, I'm divorcing this asshat" which I found extremely desirable and attractive, strong women... yum, love 'em. But there are still some trust issues and even though I've never done anything to break her trust, I think there are still some there. I assured her I wouldn't get angry or jealous and that she doesn't need to be scared I would be, and that, in fact, I wouldn't mind reading them for no other reason than I want to know what's acceptable to text or not... does that make sense? This is still relatively new to me. I flirt with the girls at work, but that's in person, it's easier to flirt in person.

 

Our communication has gotten a lot better since this journey started. I agree we're no where near ready, but we're getting there. There's still a lot more positives that are coming out of this than negatives.

[slevin 1,374]

This is something i've pointed out to her a lot over our last 13 years. She uses a lot of "I" statements' date=' I use a lot of "we" statements. A lot of it may be cultural. [/quote']

 

I meant you used a lot of "I". Like "I initiated contact", "I have been texting", "I want to keep doing this", "I told them that I'm not ready..."

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

2: She's fearful that if i do read some of the things she texts I'll get jealous or angry

 

Yeah? You might. So what. This is an example of what we're all nattering on about here. Swinging is a shared activity (rather than an expression of personal greed for more pussy/cock), and that includes the emotions that come up during it (I'd write that in all caps, but yelling is a violation of the TOS). If y'all can't share authentic feelings and deal with them lovingly and responsibly, without protecting personal turf by invoking the no-possession clause, then you are a trainwreck waiting to happen. While each partner derives both individual and shared pleasure, it isn't an individual activity. That means you don't shrink from the feelings that come up, whether they're yours or your partner's.

[idon'tknow 15]

I meant you used a lot of "I". Like "I initiated contact", "I have been texting", "I want to keep doing this", "I told them that I'm not ready..."

 

Yes. This is what she wants me to do, that's why when I've been doing it I've been sharing it with her, or told her before I was even going to do it. There's a lot of "I" when it comes to this because when it comes to what she wants to do "I" am the one who has the problem with wanting to do it. I'm trying to make it a "we" thing by taking steps for "me" to want to do it and I'm including her in what I'm doing. What else am I supposed to say? If I say "we're not ready for it" that's a lie, she feels ready, I'm not. Simple as that.

 

Swinging is a shared activity (rather than an expression of personal greed for more pussy/cock), and that includes the emotions that come up during it (I'd write that in all caps, but yelling is a violation of the TOS).

 

That's the point we're trying to get to. Not sure why you would feel the urge to yell. Is it not apparent that we're trying to deal those emotions by sitting down and talking about them?

 

If y'all can't share authentic feelings and deal with them lovingly and responsibly, without protecting personal turf by invoking the no-possession clause, then you are a trainwreck waiting to happen. While each partner derives both individual and shared pleasure, it isn't an individual activity. That means you don't shrink from the feelings that come up, whether they're yours or your partner's.

 

Who's shrinking away from feelings? she and I wouldn't be talking about it if either of us were shrinking away from them feelings IMHO, if we are in some way please point it out. I know it's a shared activity, she knows it's a shared activity (otherwise she would've gone out long a go and started doing it without me), we're trying to get on the same page, otherwise we wouldn't be wasting time talking about it. Curious... what's the "no possession clause"?

 

FWIW I'm all for the idea that we're no where near ready for it, that communication wise we have a long ways to go. I'm not saying we're going to go out tomorrow and start trying to do this, merely pointing out that we're trying to work on getting to the point where we will be ready to. I'm not looking for validation for how we're going about it, merely looking for input on how to do it better; saying something like "wait ten years and try again" isn't very helpful. It's not as if we shut all this down, never think about it then try again in ten years that it's going to "magically " be something I want to do, is it?

[angelkin 1,326]

It's not as if we shut all this down' date=' never think about it then try again in ten years that it's going to "magically " be something I want to do, is it?[/quote']

 

It could.

 

7 years ago when we met, I wasn't ready for it. We talked and talked and talked and that didn't change. A health event in our lives drew us closer together and made me realize life is just too damn short not to enjoy every ounce of splendor it has to offer. That was my "magic" moment.

[Tobacouple 111]

I think what others are trying to say is, trying to work on or fix relationship issues with the prospect or goal of swinging hanging over your heads isn't the way to improve your marriage. Both of you need to put all thought and talk of swinging aside until your relationship and communications improve. Swinging isn't a tool to use to adjust, fix or improve relationships. It will quickly expose the strengths and weakness in them though.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

How people younger than the age of forty can be successful in the swing lifestyle, I cannot apprehend. The emotions at this age are just too intense. Wait ten years and try again.

 

Hey Now! I resemble that remark. I don't think you have to be 40 to swing or to have the emotional maturity to do so (or the relationship maturity). I do think, however, that you need a certain level of emotional and relationship maturity that I don't see from Mr. idon'tknow. Mr. Idon'tknow, It sounds to me like you are playing mind games with her. Women can't read your mind any more than you can read theirs. If you want her to share her texts then all you have to do is ask (you've proven that). She is willing to share them. It sounds like what you want is for her to walk up to you each day and say "Today he texted me XYZ and then I said, and then he said" and carry on a conversation that sounds like a phone call between two 12 year old girls.

 

From all that you've posted here so far, I don't think that you are ready to swing - as a person or as a couple. You need to do a LOT of work on your relationship and mainly your communication skills. You even admit this in your post. Stop trying to make something happen that shouldn't happen. It almost sounds like she's forced this on you. If that's the case then you guys need to do even ore work on your relationship than I initially would have thought. Swinging will not fix anything. Your relationship is already cracked, and on the way to broken, swinging will be the death of it if you continue in this direction.

[idon'tknow 15]

Hey Now! I resemble that remark. I don't think you have to be 40 to swing or to have the emotional maturity to do so (or the relationship maturity). I do think, however, that you need a certain level of emotional and relationship maturity that I don't see from Mr. idon'tknow. Mr. Idon'tknow, It sounds to me like you are playing mind games with her. Women can't read your mind any more than you can read theirs. If you want her to share her texts then all you have to do is ask (you've proven that). She is willing to share them. It sounds like what you want is for her to walk up to you each day and say "Today he texted me XYZ and then I said, and then he said" and carry on a conversation that sounds like a phone call between two 12 year old girls.

 

From all that you've posted here so far, I don't think that you are ready to swing - as a person or as a couple. You need to do a LOT of work on your relationship and mainly your communication skills. You even admit this in your post. Stop trying to make something happen that shouldn't happen. It almost sounds like she's forced this on you. If that's the case then you guys need to do even ore work on your relationship than I initially would have thought. Swinging will not fix anything. Your relationship is already cracked, and on the way to broken, swinging will be the death of it if you continue in this direction.

 

10/4 good buddy. The text thing was a miscommunication (one of not as many as it may seem), we were both on the same page; when we were talking about it, however, we were just talking about different parts of the page so to speak. I know I'm not ready, but I like how we're approaching this and she's being very patient and willing to sit down, hold my hand and talk with me about my fears and our goals, and the other couple that we're talking with has been very supportive and very understanding (we have no intention of doing anything with them right now other than be friends, not only are they fine with that, they prefer it like that anyway). Between the female half (the male half occasionally too) talking with me and being very understanding and my wonderful wife doing the same I think this is something that we have to at least try.

 

Other than that the sex has been mind-altering and the intimacy has been amazing. We bought the book too, but I'll be darned if every time we go to bed we're too exhausted (ahem) to do anything other than sleep.

[DigginIt 1,132]

The overall theme here is your trust and communication and I believe that it shows through your posts that it's not where it needs to be. For instance, my wife WANTS to share her sext messages with me. She get's home and say's "hey honey, E say's he's going to bend me over the couch and fuck me till the cow's come home" -- okay, I made that up for this example but you get the point Clearly, your wife still has some fears that she is guarding what she says in her texts and is even defensive when you are curious. This is a clear example of trust issues. Your curiosity comes across to her as you don't trust her or she doesn't trust how you will react to what she writes.

 

I believe that you both can want to do this, it doesn't mean that you should because I can promise you that after 13 years of marriage...you two are going to fuck your first couple like you two haven't fucked each other in YEARS!!!! Then all hell is going to break loose. That is when all of the insecurities are going to come flooding to the surface. "Why did you do that? How could you let them do that? Why don't you do that with me? etc. !!!! You both love the idea but at this point you are not ready for the reality.

 

While I agree with the 40 and under comment, it is because a lot of couples do not reach that level of maturity in their relationship until around that age...despite some very successful exceptions