Swinging with Family Present

[ionsawmill 86]

Quote

Originally posted by bill&sabrina

Even swingers can have a narrow view of what married couple do. A lady that attends the same club Sabrina and I go to found this out over the weekend. She went to the club without her husband, but with a man that her and her husband play with quite regularly. You would have thought that she went to the church ice cream social with a man other than her husband instead of a swing club. You have entered dangerous waters, but it isn't something that with strength you can't get out of. I truly do hope for the best for you.

 

One of the funniest things I've seen so far in my limited experience with swingers was at an off-premises club. An older woman brought her 21 year old son as her date. It was his birthday and her gift to him was a night out at the club. I doubt seriously that she intended to swing with another couple with him as her partner, but the reaction from the members of the club was one of shock and disgust. That really brought home the idea that most swingers really aren't that much more open minded than straight couples.

[bill&sabrina 22]

Originally posted by ionsawmill

 

Quote

One of the funniest things I've seen so far in my limited experience with swingers was at an off-premises club. An older woman brought her 21 year old son as her date. It was his birthday and her gift to him was a night out at the club. I doubt seriously that she intended to swing with another couple with him as her partner, but the reaction from the members of the club was one of shock and disgust. That really brought home the idea that most swingers really aren't that much more open minded than straight couples.

 

Makes me remember the old saying "The more things change. The more they stay the same." I posted to the thread Telling the kids. That I will tell our children when they are mature enough to handle it that I will tell our children about swinging, and us doing it. The reaction was pretty much just what you described. I had never thought about taking them to a club when they are old enough and introducing them to swinging that way. I might take that into consideration. I am sure that comment and if I do it will chap some asses, but so be it.

[CanadianCouple 18]

Originally posted by ionsawmill

... but the reaction from the members of the club was one of shock and disgust. That really brought home the idea that most swingers really aren't that much more open minded than straight couples.

 

Shock and disgust?!? My God, some people are just SOOO intolerant these days. Or maybe they were all PTL members undercover.

 

Dan

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

I will guarantee that by the time your kids are 21, if you've been swinging much they know anyhow....lol.

[CanadianCouple 18]

Quote

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN

I will guarantee that by the time your kids are 21, if you've been swinging much they know anyhow....lol.

 

I can guarantee the majority of even the most ardent swingers would find the idea of taking one's child to a club repulsive. Knowing and participating together are two different species.

 

Frankly, I'm having a tough time even believing the story anyway. Then again, Jerry Springer's made millions from watered down DNA.

[CanadianCouple 18]

Quote

Originally posted by bill&sabrina

I had never thought about taking them to a club when they are old enough and introducing them to swinging that way. I might take that into consideration. I am sure that comment and if I do it will chap some asses, but so be it.

 

Good idea. You can even supply the condoms. Do they sell them in family packs?

 

You know, many in the swinging community are trying their damnedest to convince the general public we're not a bunch of sexual deviants, and now we have people in here suggesting it's a good idea to actively involve your kids.

 

If I ever run for office, remind me not to hire you for campaign manager.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

OH Dan,

 

I have no problem believing the story.

 

I was attending a club for a few years that their kids were quite involved in. The daughter was a real good looking young lady. There son was the DJ. The kids didn't swing, but they actually had the daughter's wedding at a swinging event!

 

Hey, there are different strokes for different folks...

[bill&sabrina 22]

Originally posted by Canadian Couple

 

Quote

You know, many in the swinging community are trying their damndest to convince the general public we're not a bunch of sexual deviants, and now we have people in here suggesting it's a good idea to actively involve your kids.

 

I want to know how you are going to convince the general public that we aren't sexual deviants if we are to ashamed and embarrassed to let our kids know what we do, and maybe even guide them if they show an interest in it also. I can't wait to see how you decide to degrade me for asking this, and stating my opinion.

 

Bill

[CanadianCouple 18]

Originally posted by bill&sabrina

 

 

I want to know how you are going to convince the general public that we aren't sexual deviants if we are to ashamed and embarrassed to let our kids know what we do, and maybe even guide them if they show an interest in it also. I can't wait to see how you decide to degrade me for asking this, and stating my opinion.

 

Bill

 

Well Bill, I guess I'm one of those old fogeys who believes there are some things that should be off limits, and that includes parental/child sexual involvement, even if only attending a club together. I also believe there's apparently very little or no limits set in your household regarding your kids, and while that's every parent's right, it does your kids no good whatsoever. Beginning with and since the '60's, when this kind of parenting became vogue, teens have sunk into an abyss of self destructive behaviour unheard of previously. And with people like you, your solution is more of the same.

 

Go ahead and take your kids to the local swinger's haven, Bill. Make certain they get that quality guidance they'll need to embark on a successful career in swinging.

 

Dan

[CanadianCouple 18]

Originally posted by bill&sabrina

I want to know how you are going to convince the general public that we aren't sexual deviants if we are to ashamed and embarrassed to let our kids know what we do, and maybe even guide them if they show an interest in it also.

Bill

 

I had to re-read that quote to get the full import of it.

 

Bill, do you really believe the public will become more accepting of our lifestyle if each of us begin involving our own children in it? To the point of actually taking them to the nearest swinger's club? I can't believe you actually buy into that.

 

Dan

[bill&sabrina 22]

Well Dan you might be right about a lot of what you said about me, but you are wrong about one thing. My children do have limits set for them. I agree with you that when limits aren't set that children suffer. Can you believe it we think alike on a subject. The goddamn world must be coming to an end if we agree on something. What I don't obviously agree with you on is that some things should be kept private. I will tell our children about swinging and that we do it, but if they don't express an interest in it that will be as far as it goes. I want to be a parent that guides my children through life instead of leaving them to go it alone. Even if that means telling and showing them what swinging is.

 

Bill

[ionsawmill 86]

I'm deeply sorry for the off topic post which started this minor flame-war. I was not suggesting that anyone start swinging with their kids or that anyone change their policies with regard to informing their kids of their lifestyle. I was merely relating the story of something I saw as intolerant, considering that the club was an off-premises club and the "kid" in question, if you'll notice my earlier post, was an adult of 21 years.

[CanadianCouple 18]

Ion, you have nothing to feel sorry about. You chose to post information about a woman taking her 21 year old son to a swing club, and that prompted comments which branched off into other areas. That's how converstations are born and expand.

 

The "kid" may be 21, but he's still her son. I'm 45, and I can tell you I'd feel nothing short of incestuous about participating in anything even remotely sexual with my 76 year old mother. Bill has this inner compulsion to share anything and everything with his kids, including the fact their parents have sex with other people. I also believe the majority of people reading this thread agree with me, but have chosen not to join in the fray. That's fine, it's their choice to either participate or simply observe.

 

Playing amateur psychologist, I still think Bill is unconsciously seeking approval with what he and his wife do, even from their own children. It belies his assertion to the contrary.

 

Dan

[ionsawmill 86]

I would have to say that I agree with Bill. I for one would love to be honest with my co-workers, my friends, my family, etc. about swinging. For that matter, there are a lot of people I would love to be honest with about other things in my life. I wish we lived in a world where I could be openly Atheist at work and not lose my job; where I could be honest about the lifestyle with my friends and not be thought a freak; where I could openly bisexual with my family and not be disowned. If Bill has the guts to let the world, including his children, know about the parts of his life that we are all afraid to share, then I think that deserves applause.

 

Like Bill, I think that children need only need to know what is appropriate for their age and maturity and the current thinking in child psychology is to tell children the truth when they ask for it, but only when they ask for it. Bill obviously, from his statements, hasn't been open with his children about swinging. He only says that he will "tell [his] children about swinging and that we do it, but if they don't express an interest in it that will be as far as it goes". I can see nothing wrong with that.

 

My own parents were not open about their sexual histories, including the fact that my father had a child out of wedlock during a previous relationship. When I found out, in my early 20's, I wasn't shocked by his behavior, but I was hurt that he didn't trust me to understand the situation. Once I understood what had happened to him, I understood so much about why he had raised me the way he did.

 

I can understand the you would "feel nothing short of incestuous about participating in anything even remotely sexual with [your] 76 year old mother" but I have to tell you that if you have children, your mother has a pretty good idea that you have sex. Knowing that you exist, I would say that odds are your mother had sex too, and you know it. Is having that knowledge incestuous? Is it incestuous to admit that your parents and your children are sexual beings just like you?

 

The mother in question at this probably knew that her son was already having sex and wanted to introduce her son to an option that most 21 year olds don't have: a safer alternative to out and out promiscuity*. For all I know, she may have just wanted to take him out and get him drunk on his 21st, and that was her favorite watering hole. Who knows.

 

My question would be this: what would happen if one of your children showed up at a swinger function with his or her significant other while you were already there, having independently explored the idea of swinging without knowing you were a swinger? Playing amateur psychologist, I would say that you are either embarrassed by your involvement in the lifestyle, or you've raised your children to be intolerant of people with different ideas about what is right and wrong sexually and you fear their disapproval.

 

Like many people, I don't tell everyone about my interest in swinging because I fear the repercussions; loss of job, friends, family. While you may not agree with Bill, I think we can both agree that of the three of us, he is probably less likely to end up in an embarrassing situation or suffer a heart attack from the stress of living a double life.

 

I may be going out on a limb here, but I don't think Bill was suggesting having sex with our children, having sex in the same room with our children, or discussing all the gory details of our sex lives with our children. Bill simply believes what he is doing is right and good and is intent on raising his children to believe like he does. That's what we expect all parents to do.

 

 

*(due to the lower incedence of STD's in the swinger community)

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Quote

Originally posted by CanadianCouple

Ion, you have nothing to feel sorry about. You chose to post information about a woman taking her 21 year old son to a swing club, and that prompted comments which branched off into other areas. That's how converstations are born and expand.

 

The "kid" may be 21, but he's still her son. I'm 45, and I can tell you I'd feel nothing short of incestuous about participating in anything even remotely sexual with my 76 year old mother. Bill has this inner compulsion to share anything and everything with his kids, including the fact their parents have sex with other people. I also believe the majority of people reading this thread agree with me, but have chosen not to join in the fray. That's fine, it's their choice to either participate or simply observe.

 

Playing amateur psychologist, I still think Bill is unconsciously seeking approval with what he and his wife do, even from their own children. It belies his assertion to the contrary.

 

Dan

 

I am 45 also, and never considered the reverse situation of sharing anything with my (now deceased) parents, however they didn't swing. They were very devout religious types, and premarital, extramarital sex were considered deviant under any circumstances. So, I guess you could say they shared their sexual feelings, what they considered right and wrong with me in an honest way, although of course not their actual sexual experiences.

 

My feelings are concerning my kids that I could set myself up for being very contradictory if I were to express an opinion on swinging that wasn't honest. It is a subject that did come up by the fact that I cannot hide all of my activities, and when they asked, I was honest.

 

That being said, I am not ever going to take one of my kids to a swinging club, but wouldn't necessarily judge someone that did. I mentioned that some life style friends had their daughters wedding at a club. It was an off-premises club btw, but everyone at the club knew them because the daughter was a bartender every week, and it was accepted with no negativity that I can recall. BTW, the daughter nor any of their kids swing.

 

As with most subjects concerning sexuality, there isn't always a black or white, but areas that certain people choose that others wouldn't dream of. Swinging itself is one of those areas. Most of my straight friends wouldn't ever consider it and I am sure that some of them would think it to be horribly deviant, immoral, or even illegal.

 

Fact is that my kids really have never discussed it with me in a negative way. They don't ask about it much, other than to ask about how a friend is doing or what not. It is a great big non-issue to them.

 

Today's kids are having an awful lot of sex anyhow. I remember having same room sex in college, just because of the logistics of dormitories, but not sharing. Today it isn't uncommon for young adults to share there sexual relationships with others, although not common to engage in threesomes, or moresomes....also not that uncommon either.

 

I think part of the issue here is defining the word "kid". A kid that is over 15 now a days knows more about sex than I did 30 years ago that's for sure. Sure, some of us had sex, but the majority abstained at least until 16 -19 or beyond.

 

I just don't lump people that are open sexually with there kids into the 60's free love syndrome. Certain people I am sure share a great deal about sexuality with their kids with positive results. Some share nothing, and have negative results.....it works the other way around also. A lot depends on the overall family healthiness and the ability to communicate. Of course I am a single dad now, and I NEVER have sex in the house (or anywhere lately), but they know I am a sexually normal man that has desires and needs too.

 

I just don't jump on the of hearing about a certain situation and taking it at face value. This woman felt it appropriate to take her son to a club. It is her choice, it may be right or it may be wrong. It is something I wouldn't do, but many people wouldn't do many of the things I have done. That doesn't make them or I right or wrong, just different. Just like swingers are different. Some swing for the wrong reasons but that doesn't make swinging itself wrong.

 

John

[ionsawmill 86]

Very insightful.

 

I'm an "armchair parent", not having children of my own. All I can say at this point is how I feel about things right now. When and if I have children, my attitudes may and probably will change.

 

I do have some advice for Bill: if there is ANYONE in your life you don't want to know that you swing, wait until your kids know the meaning of discretion.

[CanadianCouple 18]

Quote

Originally posted by ionsawmill

I would have to say that I agree with Bill. I for one would love to be honest with my co-workers, my friends, my family, etc. about swinging. For that matter, there are a lot of people I would love to be honest with about other things in my life. I wish we lived in a world where I could be openly Atheist at work and not lose my job; where I could be honest about the lifestyle with my friends and not be thought a freak; where I could openly bisexual with my family and not be disowned. If Bill has the guts to let the world, including his children, know about the parts of his life that we are all afraid to share, then I think that deserves applause.

 

You may think of me as a rather intolerant individual, but that's the furthest thing from the truth. However, there's a big difference between intolerance and not wishing to be made privy of every single nuance of other people's lives. I could care less if you're an Athiest, Muslim, Christian, Buddist, or if you worship doorknobs, but that doesn't mean I want to hear a daily mantra about it on the job. And I suspect those who DO lose their jobs over such issues don't lose them because of their beliefs, but because they simply can't resist inserting plugs into conversations each chance they get. Believe me, I've known some real militant types who apparently can't think of anything BUT their pet cause.

 

 

Quote

Like Bill, I think that children need only need to know what is appropriate for their age and maturity and the current thinking in child psychology is to tell children the truth when they ask for it, but only when they ask for it. Bill obviously, from his statements, hasn't been open with his children about swinging. He only says that he will "tell [his] children about swinging and that we do it, but if they don't express an interest in it that will be as far as it goes". I can see nothing wrong with that.

 

Again, why would Bill volunteer such personal information with his children? If you've been following this thread from the beginning, that's indeed what he's talking about. If at some future date his kids come across something that looks suspicious, whether it be an email or something along those lines, then he can decide whether or not to come clean. What Bill's talking about is making certain his kids know. Big difference.

 

 

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My own parents were not open about their sexual histories, including the fact that my father had a child out of wedlock during a previous relationship. When I found out, in my early 20's, I wasn't shocked by his behavior, but I was hurt that he didn't trust me to understand the situation. Once I understood what had happened to him, I understood so much about why he had raised me the way he did.

 

This begs all sorts of possible scenarios. Are you suggesting dad confide in his son that he occasionally has the secretary bent over his desk? Or that mom tells her kids she once got drunk and did it with their daddy's brother? Do you really want to know the complete sexual history of your parents? I sure as hell don't, know more than I want them to know mine.

 

What is it with this obsessive need to 'fess up everything to everyone?

 

 

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I can understand the you would "feel nothing short of incestuous about participating in anything even remotely sexual with [your] 76 year old mother" but I have to tell you that if you have children, your mother has a pretty good idea that you have sex. Knowing that you exist, I would say that odds are your mother had sex too, and you know it. Is having that knowledge incestuous? Is it incestuous to admit that your parents and your children are sexual beings just like you?

 

Sorry, this one stretches the boundaries of the imagination. Knowing someone has sex and involving them in your sexual activities by taking them to a club are two different things, and you know it. My mother has daily bodily functions like the rest of us, but that doesn't mean I want to hear a blow by blow description either. Or am I being close minded on THAT too?

 

 

Quote

The mother in question at this probably knew that her son was already having sex and wanted to introduce her son to an option that most 21 year olds don't have: a safer alternative to out and out promiscuity*. For all I know, she may have just wanted to take him out and get him drunk on his 21st, and that was her favorite watering hole. Who knows.

 

Ah yes, the good old "safe alternative". Shucks, they're gonna do it anyway, so why not make sure they do it RIGHT. Nothing like watching ma gettin' all hot 'n steamy with other men to set sonny on the right track.

 

Maybe she just wanted to get him drunk for his 21st B day? And here I thought she had no redeeming qualities as a mother.

 

 

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My question would be this: what would happen if one of your children showed up at a swinger function with his or her significant other while you were already there, having independently explored the idea of swinging without knowing you were a swinger? Playing amateur psychologist, I would say that you are either embarrassed by your involvement in the lifestyle, or you've raised your children to be intolerant of people with different ideas about what is right and wrong sexually and you fear their disapproval.

 

If one of our children showed up at a function, we'd probably either faint of embarrassment, or have a coronary. But the difference is, Ion, the embarrassment would be born of the fact we've strived to keep our sexual lives completely separated from our kids, and theirs as adults from us. You'll probably think this makes us hypocrites, but not at all. It only further illustrates our natural instinct to insolate our children from our private sexual activities.

 

There's that word again, "intolerant". I'm beginning to honestly think that means anyone with any limits whatsoever. At least in this context anyway.

 

Quote

Like many people, I don't tell everyone about my interest in swinging because I fear the repercussions; loss of job, friends, family. While you may not agree with Bill, I think we can both agree that of the three of us, he is probably less likely to end up in an embarassing situation or suffer a heart attack from the stress of living a double life.

 

So telling anyone who'll listen about your sex life will contribute to longevity? Kudos Ion, for providing a new and unique twist to the argument. I guess confession is indeed good for the soul, and the heart.

 

 

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I may be going out on a limb here, but I don't think Bill was suggesting having sex with our children, having sex in the same room with our children, or discussing all the gory details of our sex lives with our children. Bill simply believes what he is doing is right and good and is intent on raising his children to believe like he does. That's what we expect all parents to do.

 

No, I realize Bill wasn't suggesting having sex in the same room as your children (although at this point, I'm not sure he'd discount it either. Intolerance, you know). But taking your kids to a swingers club is going beyond simply making them privy to what mom and dad do on Saturday nights. Can we agree on that much?

 

Dan

[CanadianCouple 18]

Originally posted by ionsawmill

Like many people, I don't tell everyone about my interest in swinging because I fear the repercussions; loss of job, friends, family.

 

Ion, not everyone wants to hear of your involvement in swinging, nor mine. And some of them tend to get a tad upset having it shoved into their faces.

 

Dan

[EternallySingle 32]

My mother is not a swinger. She is bisexual. I found out because she was having a relationship with the sister of a couple I used to swing with. We all ended up at the same picnic in East St. Louis. The couple invited me so they could introduce me to one of his coworkers, who they also swung with and happened to be single. My mother was invited by her girlfriend. It was not a tense situation. It was rather funny, but there were none of the perverseness that people tend to think of when they consider parents and children knowing about each other's sexual preferences. In fact, after that day, my mother has actually covered for me (with the rest of my family) when I would go to Chicago to a lifestyle function. She would simply say "Aaron's out with friends. I'll get a message to him" and I don't get a lot of questions. She's also my safe call. Who better to call than mom when things get rocky?

[ionsawmill 86]

I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear. I do not advocate blabbing about our private lives to strangers or acquaintances, especially those we know to be ignorant and closed-minded.

 

You bring up some interesting and valid points. I've read some of your posts on other subjects, and I agree with you on many of them. Hopefully we can agree to disagree on this topic. Thank you for your interest and involvement in this thread.

[BradAndJanet 70]

This has been an interesting topic...

 

I would have to say that I would not be uncomfortable if an adult child of ours someday discovered we were swingers. At some point in time, as they become sexually active themselves, they'll probably figure it out, or at least wonder about it. I wouldn't even be surprised if they try it themselves someday; we have raised them to be open minded.

 

However, if we were to run into them at a club somewhere down the road, one of us would have to try another night. It's one thing for me to know that they're swingers and quite another to be swinging in the same venue with them. I don't need to witness their sexuality, nor they mine. The whole idea gives me the willies...

[Tarnished Halo 16]

I think that as a whole regarding our children, that we wish to be seen in the best light possible with our children, and at the same time, as human beings, with all our faults.

 

HOWEVER... to involve our children in the lifestyle (by the way...this really bugs me, we all have a lifestyle, what makes this so different, is that we are involved with other sexually, while maintaining our relationships with our spouses, and respecting the sanctity of others relationships, therefore, I really don't like the term "lifestyle",), is nothing short of perverted.

 

Our children do not need to know what our personal relationships involve. Do we love them? Are we raising them to be responsible, loving adults, knowing that there are consequences to our actions, that we care about them as human beings to attempt to expose them to the things that can harm them.? How many times have you seen a post of a woman (or man), who is heartbroken because of a decision of their spouse made that does not fit into the established realm of a loving nurturing relationship, that is simply reflective of an urge to satisfy a lust that is based on a hormonal influence?

 

Personally, I would die a thousand deaths to have to look into my child's eyes and try to justify why we are doing this. How could I possibly explain?

 

Therefore, I will keep this secret. To protect my family. THIS IS SO IMPORTANT TO ME.....to protect my relationship (even if that includes me telling my husband NO...we are NOT going to do that), to protect my child from seeing me as anything as a loving, responsible sane person who is trying their damndest to give them the very best possible chance in life to guarantee as much as we can a good basis for forming relationships, and self image.

 

Go ahead and slam me for not being willing to mess up my child's opinion of me. He already knows that I don't have all the answers, but he knows that every decision that I have ever made has been made fully aware of how this might come back and bite me in the butt. I hope to God he never finds out what we are doing. One...it really isn't any of his business, but if he does, I hope that he will be able to judge me with kindness and compassion.

 

And for those who are wondering NO WE ARE NOT SWINGING!

[CanadianCouple 18]

Quote

Originally posted by ionsawmill

I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear. I do not advocate blabbing about our private lives to strangers or acquaintances, especially those we know to be ignorant and closed-minded.

 

You bring up some interesting and valid points. I've read some of your posts on other subjects, and I agree with you on many of them. Hopefully we can agree to disagree on this topic. Thank you for your interest and involvement in this thread.

 

If so, glad you've enjoyed reading my posts.

 

As far as "babbling" to strangers or acquaintances, there are far too many people out there of all stripes who insist on doing just that -- whatever their particular proclivication is, they're constantly shoving it in the faces of everyone around them. And then have the nerve to complain if someone disagrees. I've always been of the mind that, if you want to make your personal life public, you have no right to complain of any slings and arrows that come your way as a result of it. Too many homosexuals are doing just that, wanting it both ways. (no pun intended.)

 

Dan

[Nymph an' Satyr 22]

Geeeeze, and I was thinking about finding "Mrs. Robinson" at the club and introducing her to my son when her turns 18.

 

Some of you are acting like there is something wrong with swinging. There's nothing wrong, immoral, or unnatural about it. It simply isn't mainstream, that's all.

 

And though I don't really plan to introduce my kids to swinging, if and when they find out, I'm not going to freak either.

 

A little to much judgmentalism, in my judgmental opinion

[CanadianCouple 18]

Originally posted by Nymph an' Satyr

Geeeeze, and I was thinking about finding "Mrs. Robinson" at the club and introducing her to my son when her turns 18.

 

Some of you are acting like there is something wrong with swinging. There's nothing wrong, immoral, or unnatural about it. It simply isn't mainstream, that's all.

 

And though I don't really plan to introduce my kids to swinging, if and when they find out, I'm not going to freak either.

 

A little to much judgmentalism, in my judgmental opinion

 

Nah, not judgementalism, just a strong aversion to involving children in our private, sexual matters. Who ever said swingers should be exempt from having some sort of moral code?

 

Dan

[OhioCouple 41]

Originally posted by CanadianCouple

Who ever said swingers should be exempt from having some sort of moral code?

HOLY COW, have I missed a lot the last couple of weeks!

 

I agree wholeheartedly with what Dan said here. There is a fine line between being honest and spilling your guts or encouraging when it comes to your kids.

 

Having been put in the position of where my youngest and most spiciest learned of this board and directly asked me about it, (and I know for a fact she has visited the site, don't know if she went past the opening page though) I can comment here. Knowing that she may have read all of my postings, there are some things that you just don't share with your kids and they shouldn't ask you to. I call it common courtesy. Respect, Morals. I asked for that respect from my daughter when she asked me about what is this 'Swingersboard' site all about? To date, she has adhered to it and not brought it up again, although she seems to be increasingly more open about discussing other things with me regarding sexual issues. But that line stops there. And I know where to draw it.

 

There is no way on God's green earth that I would share any intimate details about swinging, much less take one to a club and play in their presence or vicinity. Now, if she would ask me questions about an alternative lifestyle, such as swinging, I'll answer them, to the best of my knowledge. I'm pretty open with my kids, and they will ask me about darn near anything, but they know where that line is too and they don't cross it.

 

Case in point, the youngest daughter dropped in the other day, without much notice...and I quote "Mom, you need to change me off of this screen name and put me on another." Why? Because she knew that the computer had been left on under a screen name that allows access to our intimate lives (she knew it) and she didn't want to intrude on it or stumble upon something she shouldn't. That is called RESPECT.

 

Something far too many kids lack these days.

 

Stepping off my soapbox now....

[EternallySingle 32]

I think that all the controversy is about how comfortable you are admitting this to others and how they may react. If you think it is too personal to even bring up, that's your choice. It shouldn't be up to anyone else what you share or reveal to your family and friends.

[bill&sabrina 22]

I would like to thank those of you that were kind enough to only disagree with me. I expect some people to disagree with things I have to say, but do not appreciate insinuations that I am a bad parent.

 

Bill

[bill&sabrina 22]

DAN,

 

I am Bill's wife and wanted to simply explain something. Please take time to read this, and keep an open mind.

 

In no way shape or form do we want to see our children engaged in any kind of sexual activity. If we were to take our children to a swing club, and we or they were to walk in, we or they would walk out. If you can understand that. Sex is natural. We are not incestuous. To be incestuous is to interact in sexual activities together. That is gross. We want to be the best parents that our children could have. That is what all parents want. Our children will be able to ask questions and get an honest answer. No one on this earth can tell us or anyone else how to raise their kids. We will raise them to be the best people that they can be. If you don't like the way that we bring our children up in this world, then that is a personal problem. If you want to play the psychologist, then maybe you should sit back and analyze your own life and make sure that you are happy with yourself and your own decisions.

 

Please keep in mind that I am not trying to attack anyone and that I am only stating my opinion. Remember, if you don't like something, don't do it. If someone else wants to, then let us not pass judgement against them for doing what they think is right. "Judge not less ye be judged". No one on this earth is God. Let us not play him.

 

Sabrina

[rounder 17]

Well, this really is a fascinating subject...one that prompts rather strong reactions. We don't have any children ourselves, so not sure that I can relate. I do know that I can't (won't?) picture relatives on my side of the family (aunts, uncles, siblings, etc.) in sexual settings; however, there are some close relations on my wife's side whom I have had fantasies about. So my reaction is kind of mixed.

 

I have wondered about what parents think when their own kids get married...did anyone out there get graphic mental images of your kids & their new spouses on their wedding night (when you know what is going on)? Or does that remain compartmentalized (acknowledged on a subconscious level but not consciously imagined)? If anyone did picture your children/siblings/relatives having sex, did you find the images arousing or disturbing?

 

What I'm getting at here is that I'm wondering if if would be a great leap from imagining family members having intercourse in an erotic fantasy & actually witnessing such an act. For instance, if you & your relatives were on vacation together and you accidentally came upon them in an intimate situation, would you continue to watch if you were undetected? Would you listen to them making love in a motel room next door (or would you turn on the cable)? If you found an explicit home video featuring a family member, would you watch it?

 

Just wondering how others view this? While I understand that everyone has his/her personal limits regarding sexuality, it seems a little amusing that some swingers are so concerned about achieving acceptance from the world at large. That ain't gonna happen anytime soon, so you might as well accept the fact that most "mainstream" people are going to regard you and your partner as perverts.

 

I also thought that the "taboo" part of swinging was part of the attraction (which, I understand, is part of the attraction of incest). If swinging was the norm, would everyone find it as exciting or would some of the passion wear off?

 

There is also a separate issue here: how many would find it exciting to watch people having sex who are related to each other (but not to you). If you were at a swing club and saw two siblings having sex, for instance, would you leave or watch? Or would such an act even be permitted (don't know the "rules" of on-premise clubs...would owners insist that the couple leave? All hypothetical questions but ones I find fascinating. Some other threads have referred to having sex in same room with siblings (but not with each other) or having sex with (adult) children of close friends, and they didn't sound too twisted to me.

[jinca 15]

Personally, I would not show my daughter the ropes (even if it just meant taking her to a swing club), however, I might talk with her about it if it ever came up and be more informative than going into the details. I would never tell her about the details of my sexual escapades, but might tell her about my choices in life. (We'll cross that bridge when we get there though, hopefully, not for another decade or so!)

 

However, I know of some people that hop the border (didn't you know that California is it's own country!) and go to Nevada when their sons become of legal age and take them to a "ranch" for sexual pleasure. I'm not comparing prostitution with swinging. I'm trying to say that I would not personally do that. I guess there are different shades of this theme. Is it something you would not do, yet would not be disgusted or offended by others if they did?

 

There are still countries where fathers initiate their daughters into sexual activity to "lovingly" show them how it's done. I put the lovingly in quotes, but they definitely feel that it's a favor to their daughters and no one in the society looks down upon it. I'm not saying that I approve of this behavior, but didn't we learn about all of this in Sociology. I mean, we can take sex completely out of this equation and say there's a million things that I would not do, but wouldn't care if others did. There are also many things that I would not do and would be very offended if I knew others did. Then there are the handful of things that I would speak out against because they are so offensive to me (very few indeed).

 

Isn't that what makes each one of us unique? In reading this I haven't seen anyone that is asking for another to take their side in how their outlook, just not to be criticized for the outlook. Is this really so heinous that we can't just reserve the right disagree and not speak out against them?

 

My $.05 (looky there...I'm a big tipper!).

[OhioCouple 41]

Perhaps it all boils down to rearing. (Meaing how you were raised as a child.)

 

I was raised in a very sexually repressive household, but I changed some of that with my kids in an effort to not have to deal with them telling me that they were pregnant or got someone pregnant at an early age. That was of great importance to me. HOWEVER...

 

Some things didn't change. Like my kids never saw me naked past the age of 3 or 4 and for that matter not even in my undies. I thought it important (my thinking) to still keep that value as I wanted my kids to understand the importance of their own personal privacy. It worked out well (on this end) as none made the same mistakes that I did, all are married and raising their own families and they ALL did it at legit ages. (Meaning 18 or older) .

 

Sorry, Bama, I just can't agree with a parent 'introducing' a kid to an avenue such as a strippers club or swingers club. I don't find it incestuous mind you, but I do find it to be crossing the line between the boundries of parent/child relationships by doing it TOGETHER. If my kids came to me and wanted info on a club of either kind, sure, I'd tell them that I have been to them and tell them which I thought were the better ones. BUT, I would never take them to one. They can do that on their own and we may even discuss their ventures afterwards and have a good laugh or share some thoughts, but no intimate details would be discussed. They wouldn't dream of it, just as I wouldn't.

 

I have no desire to have even the happenchance of walking in on my kids having sex, whether it is in their home or at a club of either kind. Just as they have no desire to do the same with me. Sort of like how many people don't like to envision their parents having sex, well I don't want to envision mine either. Even though I know they all have, as grandbaby number four is on it's way.

 

To each his own, but I prefer to keep a certain level of privacy that draws the line between parent and child. And since my way has worked well enough, I'm not about to change it.

[bccpl77 15]

When we were 17ish my father-in-law walked in on us, and boy did he get an eye-full. She was on top and kissing me with our bottoms facing the door about 3 ft away. We didn't see him, just heard the door close. It must have taken her half an hour to convince me to come out of her room, her dad is huge and mean looking. Turned out he was more embarrassed than us and couldn't look me in the eye. LOL

[Nymph an' Satyr 22]

I personally would not want to be in a swing club with my child there. But I do not care if others choose to do so.

 

CanadianCouple, by saying that you are moral, does that mean that those that do not follow your strictures are immoral?

 

Morals are very seldom absolute, and tend to be relativistic.

 

If you are calling me immoral because I do not believe as you do, I would simply say "Bugger off"

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

3 Examples (for lack of better word) on the original topic.

 

1. I know of an off-premise swingers club where the DJ is the son of the people who run it.

 

2. I know of a family of women who all swing and all have amateur websites. Online they claim to be two sisters and the daughter of one of the sisters. Actually it is a mom and daughter and the other older woman is a close friend.

 

3. An email from a girl that I got a few years ago on this site regarding having gone to a club and seeing her parents there. She freaked out and left.

 

4. One of my best friends (who is a swinger) found out that her mother had also been swinging when her mom came over and noticed a Christmas card from the local club.

 

I think there are probably a lot of families where both parents and children swing, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are swinging WITH their children. Even if they end up at the same club, as long as they are all open about what is going on to the point that they can avoid ending up in an awkward situation where they end up a little too close.

 

It's very easy to say, hey we are going to club X on this day and for the other family member to say ok, we won't be going to that club on that day then. I know it might seem like a lot to go through, but really it's not and to me I would think it was just a matter of courtesy (if you know that another family member swings and you'd both rather NOT run into each other).

 

Other families may not have such issues and may just figure that as long as they don't end up in sexual situations with each other then it's no big deal.

[ionsawmill 86]

I don't know if they are still active, but the Fort Walton Fun Group, a swingers' group in Fort Walton Beach, FL scheduled "family days" once a month so the members with kids could get together and do things like bike trips, kayaking and canoeing, etc.

 

I'd like to point out that the incident which sparked this heated debate occurred at an off premises club. PeeWee and Ms. Gail run a clean club, so the only things swinging that night were the hips on the dance floor. We were there for several hours and never saw any sexual contact, other than kissing and some "dirty dancing". There were a few dirty games of pool, but that had nothing to do with sex and everything to do with my wife being a pool shark.

[Tanman aka Mike and Marie 16]

Marie here

 

Once at the club we used to go to (TSC in Nashville) there was a good looking older blonde woman there and a good looking younger blonde with her and what appeared to be their husbands. Turned out they were Aunt and Niece, they weren't being naughty with each other but they were getting naked together on the dance floor.

 

And I was O-K with that (hehehe)

 

But mother and son? Even just to observe? I don't think so.