Feeling Left Out

[Mr. Wolverton 15]

My wife has recently started hanging out with an old friend and her husband from high school that she had gotten reacquainted with. They both are really into her and just last week she went over to their house and had a brief sexual encounter while I stayed at home with the kids. Before this, she had been spending an inordinate amount of time away from home with them, and as she had very few reliable friends to hang out with, I took it as just making up for lost time and her needing to have a true friend around. I've tried to be supportive and patient, but last night she went over to her friends house again and made out with them. Though I trust her implicitly, and I made it clear that I felt left out of the situation and kind of hurt by it (They have told her repeatedly that I cannot under any circumstances join in and that her husband doesn't 'play' well others), She had stated to them, and I believe her, that nothing else will happen if I am not there. But this conversation always ends up in an argument between us, and she says I am changing the rules, and that contrary to what I have said about wanting to be a part of this lifestyle.

 

Last night's argument has left me feeling like shit, after we had a long drag-out fight, when she said that they wanted to have us over and I stated that I felt like a third-wheel, and that despite their invite, that I felt it was done out of nominal obliging courtesy, and that my appearance would be uncomfortable to say the least. I just want to be there when it happens, but don't want the discomfort that might ensue by my presence with a man who feels that he, and only he should be the only rooster, and his wife who has stated repeatedly that she will never cheat on her husband with another man, but it seems, that having sexual encounters with my wife between her and her husband are OK. I am totally deflated and feel rejected, hurt and left out.

 

Please, any advice would go a long distance to restoring my confidence and self worth as I cannot discuss this with my wife as she bristles up like a porcupine when I try to tell her, and then I really feel like a dick...

[SW_PA_Couple 4,023]

You should reject any notion that you would want to be involved in a situation like this. It is, first of all, not swinging in any sense. You should not feel like a dick. You have been ill treated by them and by your wife. You have only one way out of this and that is to get your wife straightened out on the whole relationship.

[TheSwingerSet 205]

First off, your wife needs to stop seeing this couple right now! It is her that is changing the rules, swinging as a couple is just that a couple shareing each other with others. The other wife stateing that she will never cheat on her hubby with another man just goes to show that they are not ready for any kind of swinging.

 

The fct that you being uncomfortable is causing arguments is a big red flag, your wife needs to step back stop thinking with her pussy and take your feelings into account.

 

Once the two of you can talk about it with no tension then you will be ready to put your toes back in thw water.

 

I would bring her here and let her read you post and the comments.

 

Once again this couple doesn't seem to be the playmates that you are looking for!

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

What they said. Also, it's okay to change the rules. The current situation isn't working for you and because of that, it isn't working for your marriage. So, regardless of what rules you have had, the situation clearly indicates that it's time for your wife to stop any sort of sexual interaction with this couple. It's okay to fight about this, because it is important for any couple that has recreational sex with others to put the relationship ahead of individual desires.

 

I too would urge you to point your wife in this direction.

[junglecouple 127]

New rules are made for a reason, and the slighted one has the right to make them.. The situation you describe is a one way cheating affair in our books. I would certainly be making rule changes about now if I were in your place. The difference is there wouldn't be any arguing, or if there were, it would be short.

[Alura 2,773]

I can't stress the importance of having your wife join us in this thread. Not only do we need to hear her side of the story, she needs to hear our advice.

 

The husband of your playcouple is a strong example of what swingers try to avoid... for very good reasons. The wife is not far behind him in that regard.

 

Alura

[Delicious 21]

I too am going through a situation right now where I am feeling left out. Unfortunately, I do not have any helpful advice to give Just wanted to empathize with u and suggest your best bet is to have a long chat with your wifey, no yelling, just make sure she understands how u are feeling about it. If u guys decided to get into this Together, then it should actually be done together, and maybe u need to remind her of that.

 

Big hugs to u!

[Mr. Wolverton 15]

I will try to bring her in to the forum...Because I love her with all of my heart, I've tried to be fair and accurate in stating that she had stated my concerns with them and that I had to be there. I trust her implicitly, but don't really trust them. I believe my wife was very honest in telling me that she left after the wife had started performing oral sex with her husband, who then came over and made out with my wife, causing my wife to leave and come home after things were getting too heated...I'm afraid that if I go over there tonight, I will either be relegated to the part of a wall flower in the next room while they play, or it will just be very awkward and uncomfortable, and the minutes spent there will be drawn out and seemingly stretched out to Hellish eternity...Though my biggest fear is that she goes alone and the temptation and booze get

the better of her, for now that they have had a taste, they have become insatiable for the entire peach...

[tribbles 490]

that she left after the wife had started performing oral sex with her husband, who then came over and made out with my wife,

 

So the other husband already crossed a line your wife told them about and she wants to go back? why? What is sooooo awesome about the other lady that she is willing to risk the guy pushing further?

 

And if it is all about the girl/girl...then the two ladies can ask you two guys if they can play without either of you around.

[angelkin 1,326]

When I first read that there was an invite on the table, I cringed at the thought of you considering it. As I read your next post, I wondered how it might be if you went to hang out with them and if the subject of play came up, you curtly thanked them for their hospitality, explained that this isn't working for you, grabbed your wife by the hand and made a hasty exit. If this guy believes he can take liberties with your wife, maybe it will take a little show for him to understand you mean business...and maybe your wife too. If she keeps walking on you and ignoring your wishes, IMHO, you lose credibility with her.

 

Of course, none of that would be necessary if your wife would listen to your feelings and at a minimum take a break from seeing this couple. Clearly, that would be the best path forward.

[Fundamental Law 2,882]

First, it's good that you decided to pose your questions to the Board. Second, you have gotten some great advice. But it occurs to me that you might need some tools in order to have a Crucial Conversation. One of the problems many people--us included--have is that no one ever taught us how to frame up high-stakes conversations. As a result, we end up angry, scared and/or hurt as you have been. I encourage you to take a look at this wiki and to go buy the book. It's a fast read.

 

The problem here is that you have been backed into a Fool's Choice--not going and being miserable or going and being miserable. Avoiding that situation means being able to safely state what you want/need. Paradoxically, part of that is helping your wife feel safe in stating her needs.

 

An enormous amount of conversation between partners in the LS is Crucial Conversation. Especially early on, how our partners respond in the LS often gets to “What is the worst and most hurtful way I can take this?”. A couple brushes you off. Some guy seems to pleasure your wife more than you did last night. That woman is all over my husband. And so on. The usual next step is either silence or emotional violence, both of which will hurt your partner and neither of which helps get to dialogue.

 

Somehow, both of you need to get to a different question, namely “Why would a reasonable, rational, and decent person think or feel this way?” This allows you to get shared meaning around whatever is going on.

[JandKinBoise 856]

Not knowing the whole story, I guess the fact that she went back after any discussion about your feelings is noteworthy. It appears that you love her with all your heart, and she doesn't have much consideration for your feelings.

[corynlaine 118]

Forgive me for being blunt but really there is no other way to say this.

But you've been cockholded at best or your wife totally sh8 on your relationship and is cheating on your at worst.

The other couple, as you state, has explicitely stated and required that you have NO PLACE in this relationship and your wife is not only willfully going along with this but shives it in your face.

 

You say that she CLAIMS that she has told them that nothing else will happen YET you fight AND she still goes over there! This is PLAINLY saying to you that your relationship is at best secondary to the one she is having with them.

 

 

I have one simple rule when dealing with people, whether swinging, work, or friends - words only have meaning when and only IF their action match their words.

Now people are not perfect and they make mistakes, and their actions are not always (hardly ever) will match your ideal response BUT they must match.

The more important and closer the relationship the more vital it is that words match action. Right now your wifes words and actions are not even in the same universe!

 

You need to grow some balls and or decide whether you are ok with this or do something about it. BUT there is no middle ground here!

As for your feeling bad. sometimes when you push a subject (like swinging but really anything ) and something out of the ordinary happens you make excuses for why the otehr person crossed the line. After all you brought this upon yourslef etc but that does not excuse her behavior.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

First, your wife needs to understand rules do change. If not we certainly wouldn't be swinging, and I dare say that is true of many if not most in the lifestyle. When we were first married, nothing in our "rules" would have permitted swinging, we came to it over a long period of time and an evolving relationship, read changing relationship.

 

Second, rules should be a restrictive as they need to be and as unconditional as what both of you agree and no more loose than your relationship can manage. As with any couple in any situation, the moment one of them becomes uncomfortable with a situation then it must stop at least until further discussion and consensus is reached. Being considerate of the others feelings is just part of a healthy relationship.

 

This may be a threesome from a physical standpoint but it certainly a foursome from a relationship and psychological standpoint. If your wife and the other couple cannot understand and make allowances for this then beware. I can understand a couple only wanting to play with a single of a certain sex, it may be, in this case, the woman does not want to be with another man or the man does not want his wife with another many (I have issues with that, but will lave that for another thread). But, in most cases, the second the "single" is part of another couple an unreasonable dichotomy is created.

[Lionheart72 2,189]

They have told her repeatedly that I cannot under any circumstances join in and that her husband doesn't 'play' well others

 

 

This is simply unacceptable. If you had all discussed the matter and come to a mutual agreement that you would not play with them, that would be one thing. For them to dictate to you, through your wife, that you have no place... there is no element of that which is remotely acceptable in my mind.

 

My advice: time to put on the brakes. If you wife does not agree, then you need the number of a good marriage counselor.

[Gordo 618]

Three assholes are shitting on you and you feel like the dick? As someone else said it's time to grow some balls.

 

Unless you are getting something out of the humiliation (are you:confused:) they're dishing out I would suggest the following words

NO!

No More!

It's over!

If you go back take your suitcase you won't be returning. I'll be changing the locks.

 

If someone talked about me like that to my wife and she didn't WALK we'd be headed for divorce. You two need some serious relationship counselling to survive. There is something at the core of this that doesn't bode well for the future of your relationship. And it is certainly not swinging by mutual consent.

[2plus2fun 143]

My wife and I don't play with anyone who doesn't accept me as well... it's part of the reason we don't play with many couples anymore because I have no tolerance for that BS. We have met way too many couples that want to have a threesome with my wife but won't let me join in over the last couple of years. As soon as they say it we part ways... it's as simple as that. I am not unattractive... it's just that I have found - especially over the last couple of years as noted - that there are way too many jealous guys who have convinced their wife to start doing threesomes.

[Just Passing By 140]

Mr Wolverton implied , but didn't directly address what was the existing protocol on Wife's freedom to engage on her own initive. I am picking up a moderate implication that she could have some degree of girl/ girl , and that additional activity would involve the two of you ? If that is sort of close , invoking the quoted rule of looking at things in best possabilities , she would still have partial credit for breaking off the initial situation when she did.

 

That said, the red and yellow flags are all over this. The situation is totally unacceptable to you on multiple levels, and has to be addresed between you.

 

Even if it is within you protocols for Mrs W to play with guys without you there , you are still being left out of balancing funtime. If as is implied that this isn't on the menu , she needs to not play with either of them, since he is said to be catagorically opposed to couple play.

 

The wild card is her preexisting close friendship with her friend.

[latin2012 22]

If your agreement with your wife was that she is allowed to play with couple and you can "only" play when possible... Then yes I would say you have broken your rules.

 

I don't understand how she can go out with them and only "make out" and get mad when you don't want to go when invited (not trying to put anything into your head, just saying I think there is more to this cuz I would not get mad about just making out)

 

Other man stating you are absolutely not allowed to play would raise many "no play for anyone then" flags for me, as well as other wife thinking she would be cheating if she played with you

 

Seems like the other male has the women doing what he wants

 

Again these are just opinions based on what I read (or misread).

[ZAY 67]

This invitation is a golden opportunity for you to set everyone straight and end this nonsense. Take them up on the invite. When you get there look the guy in the eyes and without blinking let him know that this is the last time he is going to see your wife. (Make sure you do this in front of your wife.) Then take your wife by the hand and leave. When you get home let her know as calmly as you can but firmly, that if she ever allows another man to dictate the terms of her swining you will be speaking to a lawyer. This conversation along with your display at the couples home will send the message loud and clear that there is room for only ONE alpha male in this lifestyle and that is HER HUSBAND. Anyway that's what i would do. Good luck. PS. stop saying that you trust her... you shouldn't.

[slevin 1,374]

This invitation is a golden opportunity for you to set everyone straight and end this nonsense. Take them up on the invite. When you get there look the guy in the eyes and without blinking let him know that this is the last time he is going to see your wife. (Make sure you do this in front of your wife.) Then take your wife by the hand and leave. When you get home let her know as calmly as you can but firmly, that if she ever allows another man to dictate the terms of her swining you will be speaking to a lawyer. This conversation along with your display at the couples home will send the message loud and clear that there is room for only ONE alpha male in this lifestyle and that is HER HUSBAND. Anyway that's what i would do. Good luck. PS. stop saying that you trust her... you shouldn't.

 

That is way too over the top, in my opinion. Approaching an issue in that kind of confrontational manner screams insecure to me, not alpha male. There are plenty of 'alpha' guys who bluster along like this out of their own insecurities. What she is doing is disrespectful, but making a scene, cultivating conflict, giving her an ultimatum, that is not the way to foster a long lasting partnership. That is a good way to either start a physical confrontation with the guy, or drive her to keep seeing them behind his back.

 

I think more information is needed before any more advice can be given. Lots of folks asked some great questions, I hope the OP comes back to fill in more details and let us know what has happened since.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

What is the update Mr. Wolverton? Did you go over to dinner with them? Have you and your wife worked through this?

 

As others have stated, you have ever right to be upset here and I totally understand why you wouldn't feel comfortable with this couple (or trust them). They had made it clear that you "weren't invited". If I were in your shoes I'd also feel like the invite was just to "oblige" me and convince me that all was well.

[IEcouple 222]

That is way too over the top, in my opinion. Approaching an issue in that kind of confrontational manner screams insecure to me, not alpha male. There are plenty of 'alpha' guys who bluster along like this out of their own insecurities. What she is doing is disrespectful, but making a scene, cultivating conflict, giving her an ultimatum, that is not the way to foster a long lasting partnership. That is a good way to either start a physical confrontation with the guy, or drive her to keep seeing them behind his back.

 

I think more information is needed before any more advice can be given. Lots of folks asked some great questions, I hope the OP comes back to fill in more details and let us know what has happened since.

 

Completely agree. Forcing a physical confrontation with someone who wants nothing to do with you and has already acted possessive toward your partner is a terrible idea. The OP has no idea how this guy would react. Going to his house to tell him to fuck off is practically an invitation for physical violence.

 

Both he and his wife should cut off all contact and try to repair the trust issues in their relationship.

[Mr. Wolverton 15]

Apologies for the long delay in response...My wife and I had a long discussion after that night...She said that it broke her heart to think that she might have hurt me so badly. I told her about joining this site while we were heading out last night and all of the advice gleaned from it and we both agreed that we would only seek out other lovers if the other one was present and could we could share in the situation...I can't thank you all enough for your advice and help in this matter. It does my heart good to know that we have somewhere to turn when we run into situations or have questions.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

Thanks so much for coming back and giving us an update. I hope you both check in often, because you have things to share even when you don't have questions.

[Gordo 618]

Apologies for the long delay in response...My wife and I had a long discussion after that night...She said that it broke her heart to think that she might have hurt me so badly. I told her about joining this site while we were heading out last night and all of the advice gleaned from it and we both agreed that we would only seek out other lovers if the other one was present and could we could share in the situation...I can't thank you all enough for your advice and help in this matter. It does my heart good to know that we have somewhere to turn when we run into situations or have questions.

 

Happy to hear that things seem to be working out in the right direction now. But I do have a question. If I look at your original post you talked to her many times about your feelings and not wanting what was happening and got ignored.

 

What changed in her that she is now accommodating you & that she is so sorry? It seems she has done a complete 180??? Forgive me if that makes me even more suspicious.

 

Are you being played?

[Mr. Wolverton 15]

Happy to hear that things seem to be working out in the right direction now. But I do have a question. If I look at your original post you talked to her many times about your feelings and not wanting what was happening and got ignored.

 

What changed in her that she is now accommodating you & that she is so sorry? It seems she has done a complete 180??? Forgive me if that makes me even more suspicious.

 

Are you being played?

 

Knowing her for more than 12 years (10 married) as I do

I would definitely state with assuredness that she is quite sincere and truthful in both promise and action...