Why did she lie?

[latenight 15]

I'm a new poster, and really don't know all of the in's and out's of the Swinger Board, so please bear with me if I fuck up.

 

A little background. I'm a 51 y.o. male in a LTR with a 47 y.o. woman. I have been married before and have two kids, both of whom are grown and on their own. My ex-wife and I divorced 6 years ago. About a year after the divorce, I was given the opportunity to move to my present location for job advancement, and as I have no other family and the move would take me closer to my kids, I accepted. I didn't know anybody at this new location so I began to bar-hop and go to singles events to try to meet somebody new. I met my GF at a singles ball about a month after moving, and after dating for 10 months / a year , we moved in together, and have been together ever since. She is a wonderful woman and we have had a really great time. We connect in so many ways and The sex is off the scale. She also has been married before and has one kid (boy) who is in HS.

 

Now to my concern. When we began dating, my girlfriend was very upfront that she and her ex-husband had been involved in the swinging lifestyle for a couple of years. I would guess about 3 years. Now I don't know if I'm into that, but I don't have any prejudices against it either, so it didn't seem that important at the time. I know that she still had friends in the LS, but (apparently) has not been actively involved since her divorce. I have met some of her swinging friends and they are really nice people and we get along with them very well.

 

Whenever the subject of swinging would come up, she would say that all that they (her and her ex) ever did was swap and a couple of threesomes. Not anything that bothered me. A couple of months ago we were at a party and one of her past friends in the LS (guy) and I got a little too drunk and he began to tell me of all of the things my girlfriend had really done during the time she was a swinger. They included several gangbangs, some BBC parties, and some pretty serious BDSM.

 

Now my girlfriend has mentioned NONE of this. I'm fairly open-minded, but this kind of stuff is off the scale for me, and made me wonder if she was lying to me. I asked her about it and she got very upset and said that he was lying and who did I believe her or him? Since then, our relationship has suffered. I asked the guy's wife if what he said is true and she confirmed that it was.

 

Now, like I said before, I'm not against the LS, in any way, but if she did all of those things, why didn't she tell me? Honestly, If she had mentioned this before we began to co-habit, I would not have done so, but she didn't know that at the time, so why lie?

[angelkin 1,326]

Because we don't know her, all any of us can do is speculate from our own experiences of why we might be less than truthful about our past sexual activities. For myself, there are things I have done in the past that I don't necessarily share the details about...now, I have been up front with my husband and that's just who I am, but maybe she is embarrassed, maybe she fears that telling you sordid stories of her past will create a problem in your relationship, maybe the guy and his wife ARE actually not being truthful, stretching the truth, being malicious, or telling their side of the situation from their own perceptions or from heard rumors.

 

I think that the past should stay there and unless she feels the need to talk about it, then subject closed.

 

Take all that for what it's worth, like I said, I don't know either of you or the friends that taddled on her...and all that factors into good advice.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,024]

You might never know whether the story the alcohol-loosened lips told is true, will you. The real question, from as much as I can see, is whether or not you believe the now-damaged relationship is worth fixing. Is it?

[Lionheart72 2,190]

Honestly, is it any of your business what she did before she was with you? Sexual transmitted infections notwithstanding, does it really matter? She is the same person she was before you found out about this.

 

As for lying, do you really know that she is? OK, two of her past friends have told you stories. She denies them. Maybe the stories are exaggerations or different interpretations of events. Maybe they are outright fabrications by people with some hidden motive to hurt you or her. Maybe they are even true and your GF didn't feel comfortable sharing them because of how you might (and in fact did) react.

 

You need to ask yourself a couple of important questions. Do you care about this woman? If yes, calm down and talk to her. Don't accuse her. Don't judge her. Just talk to her. Calmly, honestly, openly and from the heart. Open and honest communication. That's the key.

[Swing*8701 887]

Did she lie or did you pry ? Another man looking for trouble who found it. What's interesting is that everything the drunk guy told you was an extreme. Several variations on sex, all having an extreme. That tells you , typically, that there was a deception of some type in place. You also had nothing confirmed, the girlfriend doesn't count.

 

Again, you don't know that she lied. Yet, it sure seems that you have a preference to believe

that she has. As a scientist, I always say,"stick with your data," and you aren't doing that at all. Lastly, how would this guy know ? Was he there ?

 

--Susan

[Baron-n-kitty 104]

Theres stuff my wife has done in the past that Im sure I don't know about. And most certainly.....vice versa. But, at the end of the day, as long as we are together, it doesent matter. If she wants to let me in on things....fantastic. But, shes more than welcome to do it at her own pace. The only thing that matters to me is our life together. Not what happened or didn't happen prior. The things that we do in the past make us what we are in the present. Whatever she has done has shaped her into the woman you care about. Just take it as that and appreciate yalls time together.

[losAmantes 318]

We all have some skeletons in our closets. What she did before you got together is her business. You love her and she loves you based on who you are right now. Even if the accusations are true, it doesn't matter. You'll have to decide if you're willing to destroy a loving relationship because your ego is fragile.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

We all have our limits, yours are obviously this side of interracial sex and GBs. Perhaps she lied because she knew that and didn't want you to judge her (as you are doing) based on experiences in her past. Whether or not you told her that there's no way you would have moved forward had you known those factors, my guess is that you've talked about enough things for her to have an idea of what things you might consider taboo.

 

That said, I'm not saying she lied. I don't know her.

 

What I do know is that she has some friends who seriously lack discretion and since they lack discretion it's possible that also stretch the truth or create stories where they don't know facts. We've had many instances where stories were created about things we had done (that never happened). People see us with certain other people and assume things are going on that are not. When people are drunk their memories can not be relied on; whether it's because whatever they may have seen or heard while drunk got muddled, or because later when they are drunk they muddle things, merging stories they heard with things they've seen elsewhere.

 

There is only one person giving you a version of the truth here that you know well enough to take at their word and that is your GF. The question is do you trust her enough to take her at her word and let her past be her past? Or don't you? If you don't, things will only get worse from here.

 

That said, you've already said that you doubt you see swinging in your future, and based on the fact that she still has a lot of friends in the LS, I do see swinging in hers. You might want to discuss that with her and weight it in your decision as to whether or not this relationship is worth continuing with.

[DaggersNRoses 271]

What is it about your girlfriend's activities that you feel would have caused you to think less of her and not move in with her?

 

Besides things she has done in the past, was your relationship good? Is it worth losing over her choices?

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

Here's one thing I find interesting: You have decided that your girlfriend was the one who lied. Not the drunk guy you know casually or the drunk guy's wife, but your girlfriend. Here's another thing: You have no interest in cohabiting with a woman who has explored kink or had a gangbang.

 

Those things are fine, but you really shouldn't punish your girlfriend for either your rather arbitrary view of what is acceptable sexual behavior in women or your lack of faith in her honesty. I kinda hope she kicks you to the curb and gives herself an upgrade in her next relationship, but if not, I hope you examine yourself pretty stringently and either value her differently than you do now or let her go.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

Now to my concern. When we began dating, my gf was very upfront that she and her ex-husband had been involved in the swinging lifestyle for a couple of years. I would guess about 3 years. Now IDK if I'm into that, but I don't have any prejudices against it either, so it didn't seem that important at the time.

 

They included several GB's, some BBC partys, and some pretty serious BDSM. Now my gf has mentioned NONE of this. I'm fairly open-minded, but this kind of stuff is off the scale for me....

 

Everyone else has given you great advice. I'd like to highlight the above quotes from your post because it does sound like you have some prejudices about the LS and you aren't as open-minded as you thought you were. Your post reminds me of a similar recent post on the forum in regards to single men who don't mind playing with other men's wives but couldn't see themselves in the LS with their g/f or wife. Perhaps you thought that swinging was all in the past for her and that you were going to "convert" her back to "normalcy"? Perhaps it was great thinking about what a wild woman she was in her younger years but now that she's older she should settle down and put aside swinging? I'm glad to hear that she was upfront with you about how swinging past but perhaps you two should have delved deeper into whether swinging was in her future, your future, the future you two had together. Perhaps she took your neutrality and "open-mindedness" as a possibility that swinging might be in the future for you two as a couple. In any case, there should have been more communication and if there's is to be any relationship between you two, you both need have a lot of talking to do about the health and future of the relationship.

[IEcouple 222]

Here's one thing I find interesting: You have decided that your girlfriend was the one who lied. Not the drunk guy you know casually or the drunk guy's wife, but your girlfriend. Here's another thing: You have no interest in cohabiting with a woman who has explored kink or had a gangbang.

 

Those things are fine, but you really shouldn't punish your girlfriend for either your rather arbitrary view of what is acceptable sexual behavior in women or your lack of faith in her honesty. I kinda hope she kicks you to the curb and gives herself an upgrade in her next relationship, but if not, I hope you examine yourself pretty stringently and either value her differently than you do now or let her go.

 

Completely agree with this.

[Fundamental Law 2,885]

Relationships are about trust. Confrontation always threatens trust. At a guess, you "confronted" her with what someone else said. At a guess, she values her relationship with you and reacted as most folks would, immediate denial. Whatever the truth about her past is, what matters now is trust. She might or might not have done things in the past that she wants to put behind her. If those things occurred before you met her, what did it matter to you?

 

Look within yourself. You've had 6 years of a self-described wonderful relationship with this woman. You knew she had a past. The details were irrelevant a month ago. What makes them relevant now? Why on earth would you risk a great relationship by digging into her past just because some drunk guy said she liked BBC and gangbangs?

 

Don't ever look back unless you intend to go that way.

[slevin 1,374]

I'm fairly open-minded, but this kind of stuff is off the scale for me

 

I'd suggest that might be why she lied about it, if she is lying. She may have sensed your feelings about wild stories when she told you about her swinging. If she felt you might not take it well she may have decided to keep it to herself. I can't really judge if she is keeping something from you or not, but this may be a possible explanation if she is.

[latenight 15]

Thank you all for your kind responses.

[latenight 15]

Julie, we have discussed the Swinging Life style before and I expressed interest in some of the activities. She , on the other hand, has said that she is no longer interested, except for friendship. The truth of the matter is that I'm much more upset that she may have lied to me than I am about what she did while in the LS (?). The practices mentioned by the guy are extreme practices, which are not in my comfort zone, but I have no objection to other people who do them. I don't eat Ghost chili peppers either, because they burn the crap out of me, but I have no problem with anyone else who wants to eat them. I feel it is more a matter of preference and what each individual is comfortable with. I don't judge anybody, because I'm far from perfect.

[latenight 15]

I think that I should rename the title of this thread. Instead of "Why did she lie"?, it should be "Why WOULD she lie?" I am not , by any means, convinced that she is lying, but now that this issue has come about, I DO want the truth, regardless of who tells it. Perhaps the other couple have some issues with my GF from the past and are simply repeating stories they have heard secondhand. What throws me is that they SEEM so friendly. I don't know about the etiquette of the swinging lifestyle, but isn't talking out of class frowned upon?

[Lionheart72 2,190]

I am not , by any means, convinced that she is lying, but now that this issue has come about, I DO want the truth, regardless of who tells it.

 

If you're not convinced she is lying, why are you convinced that you don't already know the truth? Is it "the truth" that you really want... or do you want her to tell you all the gory details of her every sexual encounter? Have you shared every intimate detail of your sexual past with her?

 

What throws me is that they SEEM so friendly.

 

All the really successful liars do. The most vicious, manipulative, selfish, cruel person I've ever met seems like a sweet, charming woman.

 

I don't know about the etiquette of the swinging lifestyle, but isn't talking out of class frowned upon?

 

Yes, it is.

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

I think that I should rename the title of this thread. Instead of "Why did she lie"?, it should be "Why WOULD she lie?" I am not , by any means, convinced that she is lying, but now that this issue has come about, I DO want the truth, regardless of who tells it. Perhaps the other couple have some issues with my GF from the past and are simply repeating stories they have heard secondhand. What throws me is that they SEEM so friendly. I don't know about the etiquette of the swinging lifestyle, but isn't talking out of class frowned upon?

 

It sounds like you want this relationship to be over and you are just finding something to ruminate on to break it off. The details don't have anything to do with your present relationship. Maybe she lied because she regrets what she did, maybe she lied because she knew you would judge her, maybe she didn't lie. It doesn't matter. She's not currently engaging in these activities, she was upfront with the generalities of her past. The specifics are not really your business. I'd suggest if you want to continue the happiness you've had the past 6 years you let it go and move forward.

[Lionheart72 2,190]

The practices mentioned by the guy are extreme practices...

 

Gang bangs, interracial sex and BDSM. You call it extreme, I call it a Friday night. Of course, there are degrees to anything. How many guys is a gang-bang... two, three, ten? Likewise BDSM is a huge range and, again, what you call hardcore I might consider light play compared to some the really hardcore stuff I've seen. It may be that the reality isn't as extreme as the story and even the story is only extreme to you because it's outside your comfort zone.

 

Instead of "Why did she lie"?, it should be "Why WOULD she lie?"

 

Again, you're assuming she lied. Ask yourself this... why would HE lie?

 

The thing is, it really does sound like this guy was trying to wind you up. The whole "your GF is a total slut" line, just get a reaction out of you. In which case, he's probably sharing exaggerations and phrasing things in ways that would make things seem more extreme than they really were. His story may be based on real events, but exaggerated to the point where your GF is also being perfectly honest when she tells you they aren't true.

[DaggersNRoses 271]

When my husband and I got together, he came with a load of sexual experiences. Experiences that he not only did not want to share with me but lied to me about even.

 

It wasn't until years later that he began being open about them. We were at a point of letting go of those set notions about definitions and acceptable sex. we were speaking more openly about feelings and experiences we both had. It was very overwhelming to have truths laid out at first. I did have to deal with that feeling of being lied to.

 

But how could he be honest? We both suffered from our inheritances of marital definitions, shame and guilt. He liked the way I looked at him, liked the way it felt to be respected and loved. He was afraid of being rejected.

 

When he felt safe, he became honest and it is the best way to be. But you have to not care what people think or you have to feel you will be accepted.

 

This kind of lie for these reasons are not marriage breaking to me. Without meaning to, I helped to make it hard for both of us to be open and live honestly.

 

When we accept that our partners have had lives before us, we accept that we don't know everything they have ever done. We have to decide how to deal with the discovery of the person we are with, this often takes a long time. And again, we can't close the door on honesty if we honesty.

 

 

The Rose

[latenight 15]

It sounds like you want this relationship to be over and you are just finding something to ruminate on to break it off. The details don't have anything to do with your present relationship. Maybe she lied because she regrets what she did, maybe she lied because she knew you would judge her, maybe she didn't lie. It doesn't matter. She's not currently engaging in these activities, she was upfront with the generalities of her past. The specifics are not really your business. I'd suggest if you want to continue the happiness you've had the past 6 years you let it go and move forward.

This is very good. Thank you, funcoupledayton. I really don't want to end the relationship. But, on the other hand, I don't want to be played either. Not by her or by the other guy or by anybody. BTDT. When I said that I wouldn't want to be with her if she had, in fact , done all of those things, I was letting my frustration out. The plain truth is, that if she had told me all of the gory details (assuming there ARE gory details) it wouldn't really have meant much, because she IS really great to me. If I had never gotten drunk with this guy and if he had not been so chatty about swinging, thius issue would not ever have arisen. We have not ever sat down and grilled each other about our sexual past. The only times it has been mentioned was "in passing". But now that it has arisen, I want to get to the bottom of it. I want to trust my gf, but I want to know that my trust isn't being misplaced.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

I think that I should rename the title of this thread. Instead of "Why did she lie"?, it should be "Why WOULD she lie?" I am not , by any means, convinced that she is lying, but now that this issue has come about, I DO want the truth, regardless of who tells it. Perhaps the other couple have some issues with my GF from the past and are simply repeating stories they have heard secondhand.

 

You may not be convinced with 100% certainty that she has done the lying but you sound like you are almost made up in your mind that she has. She has told you that she didn't lie. You either trust her or you don't. And if you are willing to trust a friend (who you know through your g/f) over the word of your g/f, what does that say about the trust you have for her?

 

Just like there are a billion "What if...?" questions, there are just as many "Why would...?" possibilities. We don't know you. We don't know her. We don't know the friends. Perhaps the majority of her experiences in the LS were couple swapping or threesomes and the GB, BBC, and BSDM were little experimentations into her sexuality that she tried but didn't explore further. But on the chance that she is doing the lying, do you think that maybe she doesn't want to talk about it because maybe it wasn't as much fun as she thought it was? Maybe they were one time and done experiences. Maybe there were some bad experiences stemming from them. Maybe she just plain forgot about them. We do not know.

 

Instead of thinking that you are the victim, put yourself in her shoes. You two are doing swimmingly in the relationship, then one evening a friend of your's tells her some stories of you that they think would gross/freak her out. And it works...now she's wondering why you didn't tell her, why you lied, why would you lie, etc. etc. etc. She argues with you. She's confrontational. No matter what you say, she doesn't believe you. All of that puts you into a defensive mode, doesn't? All of that does not help the relationship and hurts it badly. Doesn't matter who is telling the truth at this point. To you, she's not on your side. She has one stance (and it's not a trustful one) and you have the defensive stance that can become resentful.

 

And I understand all about how important trust is in a relationship. Once it starts to crack and break, it takes time and work to patch it up. Is this something that you find that you can't get past? Why does it matter so much to you do have the entire truth of something in her past that had nothing to do with you? What if she demanded that you tell her the complete truth about what happened in your first marriage and why it broke down? You're thinking, "How does that help anything at all when it didn't involve her?" Exactly. You are so focused on this truth-seeking quest that you are hurting the one person you love and possibly irreparably hurting the relationship you have with her. As someone else pointed out, everything she has done until this point has shaped her into who she is. She's great in bed...well, you might have the LS to thank for that in helping her learn about her sexuality. You are reaping the benefits of her earlier sexual escapades. Let it go.

 

To be honest, I think you have some growing up to do. If something like this makes you distrustful of your g/f and affects the relationship what is going to happen when something even more devastating happens? Will you both be able to stand side to side as a couple and weather the relationship woes or will you both be standing on opposite sides and push each other away?

 

However, if you want to salvage this relationship, you should start by trusting her completely. Tell her that you do (and actually trust her, too!) and put the entire ordeal behind you. You have to prioritize what is more important to you, your g/f or your pride.

[latenight 15]

The practices mentioned by the guy are extreme practices...

 

Gang bangs, interracial sex and BDSM. You call it extreme, I call it a Friday night. Of course, there are degrees to anything. How many guys is a gang-bang... two, three, ten? Likewise BDSM is a huge range and, again, what you call hardcore I might consider light play compared to some the really hardcore stuff I've seen. It may be that the reality isn't as extreme as the story and even the story is only extreme to you because it's outside your comfort zone.

 

Instead of "Why did she lie"?, it should be "Why WOULD she lie?"

 

Again, you're assuming she lied. Ask yourself this... why would HE lie?

 

The thing is, it really does sound like this guy was trying to wind you up. The whole "your GF is a total slut" line, just get a reaction out of you. In which case, he's probably sharing exaggerations and phrasing things in ways that would make things seem more extreme than they really were. His story may be based on real events, but exaggerated to the point where your GF is also being perfectly honest when she tells you they aren't true.

Lionheart, I'm really not assuming she lied, but SOMEBODY did, and I want to know who.

I played this game with my ex wife before now. She lied to me for years about her alcoholism and drug abuse, and like the good loyal husband I believed her. It wasn't until she could no longer hide her behavior, that I finally got a clue. Even then I tried to help her but was unsuccessful. I will NOT go through that again. I didn't ask for this, but now that it has been dropped in my lap, I feel like I'm reliving the "bad old days", all over again.

[latenight 15]

Sumbuckus, I haven't DEMANDED anything. I simply asked her about what was said. Please don't question my maturity unless you know my past history. Aren't you doing the same thing with me that I did with my GF? I am, in fact, trying to find out if and why these people would tell me these things, if they are not true. Why would they feel free to discuss Swinging activities, when it seems that doing so is a no-no. Also I want to know if my GF is trustworthy. I feel that I have that right, considering my experiences in the past, and the undeniable fact that I instigated nothing and asked for no "sexual history".

[latenight 15]

When my husband and I got together, he came with a load of sexual experiences. Experiences that he not only did not want to share with me but lied to me about even.

 

It wasn't until years later that he began being open about them. We were at a point of letting go of those set notions about definitions and acceptable sex. we were speaking more openly about feelings and experiences we both had. It was very overwhelming to have truths laid out at first. I did have to deal with that feeling of being lied to.

 

But how could he be honest? We both suffered from our inheritances of marital definitions, shame and guilt. He liked the way I looked at him, liked the way it felt to be respected and loved. He was afraid of being rejected.

 

When he felt safe, he became honest and it is the best way to be. But you have to not care what people think or you have to feel you will be accepted.

 

This kind of lie for these reasons are not marriage breaking to me. Without meaning to, I helped to make it hard for both of us to be open and live honestly.

 

When we accept that our partners have had lives before us, we accept that we don't know everything they have ever done. We have to decide how to deal with the discovery of the person we are with, this often takes a long time. And again, we can't close the door on honesty if we honesty.

 

 

The Rose

I really like this post. I feel about the same. I didn't need to know about this stuff. I could have been happy not knowing or as our relationship progressed, we would "open up", more to each other. This shit storm was forced on me.

[Lionheart72 2,190]

Lionheart, I'm really not assuming she lied, but SOMEBODY did, and I want to know who.

I played this game with my ex wife before now. She lied to me for years about her alcoholism and drug abuse, and like the good loyal husband I believed her. It wasn't until she could no longer hide her behavior, that I finally got a clue. Even then I tried to help her but was unsuccessful. I will NOT go through that again. I didn't ask for this, but now that it has been dropped in my lap, I feel like I'm reliving the "bad old days", all over again.

 

Ah... now we get to the heart of matter.

 

This has nothing to do with your girlfriend's sexual past. This has to do with your past. Your ex-wife hurt you. Her substance abuse created a horrible experience for you and her lies about that made it worse. I understand. Truly, I do. You have been left with horrible scars. But in order for you to have any kind of successful relationship again, you need to address those issues. You need to heal.

 

For the sake of your relationship with your girlfriend, you also need to understand that what you are feeling has nothing to do with her past or even whether or not she lied about it. The mere possibility that she lied to you has made you equate her actions with those of your ex-wife... but she is not your ex-wife.

 

If I've got this right, I understand what you are going through. I really do. I know it's hard... but you need to see that this is not the same situation. You are not going through that again. These are not the bad old days.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

The practices mentioned by the guy are extreme practices, which are not in my comfort zone, but I have no objection to other people who do them. I don't judge anybody, because I'm far from perfect.

 

You obviously do have objections to them if you are saying that knowing that she had those experiences would have kept you from moving in with her. And you are obviously judging her for having those experiences by saying that you would think of her differently for having done so.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

Lionheart, I'm really not assuming she lied, but SOMEBODY did, and I want to know who.

I played this game with my ex wife before now. She lied to me for years about her alcoholism and drug abuse, and like the good loyal husband I believed her. It wasn't until she could no longer hide her behavior, that I finally got a clue. Even then I tried to help her but was unsuccessful. I will NOT go through that again. I didn't ask for this, but now that it has been dropped in my lap, I feel like I'm reliving the "bad old days", all over again.

 

The thing with being an adult, particularly middle aged and over, is that we have history. If we have great coping skills or have had a really good therapist or are just damned lucky, our history informs our life but doesn't rule it. However, even if those things aren't true and our traumas and scars rule our responses to unrelated events, it's not okay to take it out on others, particularly those to whom we have professed love.

 

I get that it seems imperative to you to find out who lied, but that's not an impulse that is consistent with maintaining a loving, adult relationship. What all of us are telling you in our various ways is that, as we are unmarked by your particular trauma, your responses and imperatives in this situation seem unkind, unfair, unnecessary and/or not mature.

 

I don't know if your girlfriend is fully aware of your life before her and how deeply scarred you are. I do know pretty much everything about my partner's previous relationships and I see where his scars are, so on those occasions where his reactions have everything to do with his past and nothing to do with me, I remind him of it. Sometimes really, really loudly, if he can't hear me any other way.

[latenight 15]

You obviously do have objections to them if you are saying that knowing that she had those experiences would have kept you from moving in with her. And you are obviously judging her for having those experiences by saying that you would think of her differently for having done so.

You are absolutely right, Julie. I was angry and worried, and I mis-spoke. What I think of these practices isn't what I think of her. If that makes any sense. I am NOT going to end our relationship. , because of them. I would only end it if she deliberately attempted to deceive me.

[latenight 15]

The thing with being an adult, particularly middle aged and over, is that we have history. If we have great coping skills or have had a really good therapist or are just damned lucky, our history informs our life but doesn't rule it. However, even if those things aren't true and our traumas and scars rule our responses to unrelated events, it's not okay to take it out on others, particularly those to whom we have professed love.

 

I get that it seems imperative to you to find out who lied, but that's not an impulse that is consistent with maintaining a loving, adult relationship. What all of us are telling you in our various ways is that, as we are unmarked by your particular trauma, your responses and imperatives in this situation seem unkind, unfair, unnecessary and/or not mature.

 

I don't know if your girlfriend is fully aware of your life before her and how deeply scarred you are. I do know pretty much everything about my partner's previous relationships and I see where his scars are, so on those occasions where his reactions have everything to do with his past and nothing to do with me, I remind him of it. Sometimes really, really loudly, if he can't hear me any other way.

Your opinion is , of course, your opinion. I accept that, but deny your condemnation of me and my actions. I have never and still do not want or need to know ALL of my gf's past history. What she and her ex-husband did or did not do as Swingers is less relevant to me, than the possibility of intentional deception. I didn't tell her ALL of mine and don't expect to know all of hers , unless she wants or needs to tell me. This issue has come to my attention, without any prompting from me, whatsoever. My goal is to deal with it, and move on. I want to know how best to do this. I want to know how much the etiquette of the Swinging lifestyle factors into this issue and if you posters, being in the LS, can give me some pointers on how best to resolve it. I take no blame for any of it, because I didn't ask or want to know any of it. But, for me, at least, trust is crucial to any good relationship and I want to believe that my gf is trustworthy. You have no idea how much I want this.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

Sumbuckus, I haven't DEMANDED anything. I simply asked her about what was said. Please don't question my maturity unless you know my past history. Aren't you doing the same thing with me that I did with my GF? I am, in fact, trying to find out if and why these people would tell me these things, if they are not true. Why would they feel free to discuss Swinging activities, when it seems that doing so is a no-no. Also I want to know if my GF is trustworthy. I feel that I have that right, considering my experiences in the past, and the undeniable fact that I instigated nothing and asked for no "sexual history".

 

I have to apologize for the harshness of my posting earlier. I knew I was being tough...I'm usually not that way. I'm sorry you had to go through the deception that your ex-wife exerted on you. Being lied to for years and learning about it hurts. And it takes time to heal from it. Perhaps you haven't yet healed from it.

 

I agree with Lionheart...comparing this situation with your ex-wife's is like apples and oranges. One was done during your relationship and the other was done way before you met your g/f. Your ex-wife and g/f are different people. You can't use your previous hurt from someone else onto another. That isn't fair. That's like getting mad at two children for breaking a vase--one broke the vase but the other wasn't even born yet.

 

Another thing I wanted to point out was that what if we changed the details of your story a bit...would it make a difference? Instead of a swinging history, maybe she was a famous celebrity chef. She doesn't say much about it because she isn't one anymore. One day, someone tells you that she has met chefs like Mario Batali, Bobby Flay, and Paula Deen but your g/f tells you that she didn't. Would the inconsistencies still bother you? Or would you shake it off because it's not really important? What if she had confessed to being a previous meth addict when she was younger but now she's clean and doesn't do it anymore then someone tells you about what she did during that time that she was a meth addict? Would you still be upset? Is part of what is bothering you about the situation dependent on your own opinion and views about the LS and the sexual activities within it?

 

As for the lying portion...you came to a lot of crossroads throughout this situation. When the friend told you about your g/f's previous activities, you chose to start doubting the credibility of your g/f. You could have chalked it up to drunkenness instead. When she told you that it was not the truth, you chose not to believe her completely. You could have taken her on her word, since you know her better than the friend. I'm sure there have been talks/arguments about that have continued this downward spiral. Each time creates a bigger crack of doubt and mistrust. You can either choose to continue this downward spiral or choose to get out. Even if you can somehow find out who lied and are told all the details, do you really think you'll be satisfied? You won't because you can't really be 100% certain. There will always be some detail that was left out. Or some doubt of who is lying. You weren't there. You didn't see with your own eyes whether she did or didn't. You have to trust what is being told to you. Just like faith, at one point, you have to let go of the doubt and start trusting.

[Lionheart72 2,190]

I want to know how much the etiquette of the Swinging lifestyle factors into this issue and if you posters, being in the LS, can give me some pointers on how best to resolve it.

 

When I first starting swinging, a wise man said to me: If I can watch my wife suck another man's cock, I can talk to her about anything.

 

The heart and soul of swinging is simply this: open and honest communication. As a swinging couple, my wife and I have to completely open and honest with each other and with ourselves. We have to share what we really feel, and what we really think, about anything and everything. If either of us says or does something that makes the other feel uncomfortable, we talk about it. We don't fight about it. We talk about it.

 

People talk about swinging bring you closer together. It's not because of the sex. It's the honesty. In order to watch my wife suck another man's cock, I need to be completely comfortable with our relationship. I need to trust her and trust myself. I need to know she will tell me what she wants and doesn't want, that she will listen when I tell her what I want and don't want. I need to know that I can tell her the wildest, craziest fantasy and the most mundane reality and she will listen.

 

That, my friend, is the insight the swinger community can offer you. You need to be honest with yourself. You need to be honest with her. The two of you need to talk... not fight, not confront, but talk, openly and honestly about what you feel and why.

[latenight 15]

My GF called me a few minutes ago and was really upset and crying about what has happened. She told me that my trust in her is the most important thing. She admitted that she didn't tell me everything that they (her and her ex) did, but that it was definitely not as the guy portrayed it. She did have sex with a black guy(which I don't care much about) , she did NOT have a gangbang, but has had a couple of 3-somes (which she already told me about), some swapping or partner exchange and a few girl on girl and that's it. She told me that the other sh*t the guy told me was not true and offered for me to meet and talk to some of the other Swingers who were there and even talk to her ex to back her up. I don't need that and don't want it. I have never met her ex and do not want to.

I believe her and am convinced that she is telling me the truth.

Perhaps I did over-react a little, but if you who condemned me would walk a mile in my shoes, and had been lied to by a woman who was the epitome of a suburban wife, but who turned out to be just another junkie, you wouldn't be so blind trusting , either.

[latenight 15]

I want to know how much the etiquette of the Swinging lifestyle factors into this issue and if you posters, being in the LS, can give me some pointers on how best to resolve it.

 

When I first starting swinging, a wise man said to me: If I can watch my wife suck another man's cock, I can talk to her about anything.

 

The heart and soul of swinging is simply this: open and honest communication. As a swinging couple, my wife and I have to completely open and honest with each other and with ourselves. We have to share what we really feel, and what we really think, about anything and everything. If either of us says or does something that makes the other feel uncomfortable, we talk about it. We don't fight about it. We talk about it.

 

People talk about swinging bring you closer together. It's not because of the sex. It's the honesty. In order to watch my wife suck another man's cock, I need to be completely comfortable with our relationship. I need to trust her and trust myself. I need to know she will tell me what she wants and doesn't want, that she will listen when I tell her what I want and don't want. I need to know that I can tell her the wildest, craziest fantasy and the most mundane reality and she will listen.

 

That, my friend, is the insight the swinger community can offer you. You need to be honest with yourself. You need to be honest with her. The two of you need to talk... not fight, not confront, but talk, openly and honestly about what you feel and why.

Lionheart, there is a lot about swinging that I am curious about. My gf and I have talked a little but for some reason she is opposed to getting involved again. IDK why that is? At first I thought it was because her ex is still involved (with his new squeeze) and their divorce was pretty rancorous, so anything he likes , she automatically dislikes. But she is friends with some of her former Swinging group, and doesn't seem to bear them any ill will. One thing she told me once is that she and him was trying to use swinging to "resucitate" their marriage. IDK what that means, exactly, but I think that it wasn't too successful, as they divorced. So i'm at a loss to explain it.

[latenight 15]

Thanks to ALL of you who posted. I differ with some of you but my respect for this community has grown a lot since I began posting. I have lots of other questions to ask, but will do so on other threads. You guys and gals have been great!!!!!!

[sunbuckus 3,567]

Lionheart, there is a lot about swinging that I am curious about. My gf and I have talked a little but for some reason she is opposed to getting involved again. IDK why that is? One thing she told me once is that she and him was trying to use swinging to "resucitate" their marriage. IDK what that means, exactly, but I think that it wasn't too successful, as they divorced. So i'm at a loss to explain it.

 

You could ask her nicely why she is opposed to it. From what you have written, I think she might not want to because of the reason why she went into it in the first place. She and her ex-husband joined in the LS for the wrong reason. You will see throughout the forum how often we advise that swinging does not fix a relationship. It will make a strong one stronger and a weak one fall apart. It exposes cracks and magnifies them. If the couple can see them and work through them, then they have a strong relationship. If a couple sees them (and probably was trying to avoid or cover those cracks) the cracks will widen until there is a breaking point. To her, she might equate that swinging didn't fix her marriage so why would she want to go into swinging again when it might be harmful?

 

Please feel free to post further questions on the forum and in separate threads so they can garner more attention than being buried within this one. Again, I am sorry for my earlier post that had some attitude. I thought that perhaps you might be coming to the forum to berate what we do as swingers.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Perhaps I did over-react a little, but if you who condemned me would walk a mile in my shoes, and had been lied to by a woman who was the epitome of a suburban wife, but who turned out to be just another junkie, you wouldn't be so blind trusting , either.

 

I'm sorry your ex was a lying bitch. BUT,don't judge your current GF based on your ex-wife. Doing so will lead to a serious lack of trust on your part (which has already shown its head), communication issues, and a whole host of other issues that will eventually lead to the end of your relationship.

 

If she has "friends" that are gossiping about her and spreading half or non-truths then those friends need to be dumped to the curb because they will only hurt her.

 

Use this instance as a springboard to really jump-start the communication with your GF to a new level and learn to really talk to each other and trust each other. Without that, you'll never survive. As for swinging: it really don't even need to be on your radar at this point.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Lionheart, there is a lot about swinging that I am curious about. My gf and I have talked a little but for some reason she is opposed to getting involved again. IDK why that is? At first I thought it was because her ex is still involved (with his new squeeze) and their divorce was pretty rancorous, so anything he likes , she automatically dislikes. But she is friends with some of her former Swinging group, and doesn't seem to bear them any ill will. One thing she told me once is that she and him was trying to use swinging to "resucitate" their marriage. IDK what that means, exactly, but I think that it wasn't too successful, as they divorced. So i'm at a loss to explain it.

 

Be curious. This is the place to learn. However, as I said before the idea of actually exploring swinging in your current relationship should not be on your radar. It may well be that she's not interested in pursuing it again because she knows that your relationship can't handle it at the current state. As for what she mean by her and her ex using it to resuscitate their marriage. She likely meant that they their relationship was failing (perhaps sexually, probably otherwise as well) and rather than deal with the real issues they thought that if they opened their relationship up and allowed sex with others it would fix the issues they were dealing with. It obviously didn't. However, evidently she did make some good friends in the process (hopefully there are a few real friends in that bunch and not all just a bunch of rude gossips). Unfortunately, a lot of couples come to the idea of swinging at a point in their relationship when they simply aren't ready for it and many come to it thinking that it will "fix" whatever is broken in their relationship. It pretty much never works.

[tribbles 490]

Not what she did but that she may be lying about it, would bother me.

 

What other areas is she okay with lies?

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

Perhaps I did over-react a little, but if you who condemned me would walk a mile in my shoes, and had been lied to by a woman who was the epitome of a suburban wife, but who turned out to be just another junkie, you wouldn't be so blind trusting , either.

 

I get that you experienced some of what was written as condemnation, but not one single word was meant unkindly, not by anyone. Even the harshest things were designed only to stop what appeared to be an almost intentional relationship-destroying spiral.

 

You don't know the history of the people behind the computers, which means you don't know who among us have had similar experiences and similarly seductive invitations to poison our own lives with our pasts. However, be assured that some of us do. Word of honor.

[latenight 15]

You could ask her nicely why she is opposed to it. From what you have written, I think she might not want to because of the reason why she went into it in the first place. She and her ex-husband joined in the LS for the wrong reason. You will see throughout the forum how often we advise that swinging does not fix a relationship. It will make a strong one stronger and a weak one fall apart. It exposes cracks and magnifies them. If the couple can see them and work through them, then they have a strong relationship. If a couple sees them (and probably was trying to avoid or cover those cracks) the cracks will widen until there is a breaking point. To her, she might equate that swinging didn't fix her marriage so why would she want to go into swinging again when it might be harmful?

 

Please feel free to post further questions on the forum and in separate threads so they can garner more attention than being buried within this one. Again, I am sorry for my earlier post that had some attitude. I thought that perhaps you might be coming to the forum to berate what we do as swingers.

Sumbuckus, that is almost word for word what she said. She said that they went into swinging as a "marriage booster". She also said that, if anything, it hastened the divorce.

[latenight 15]

Be curious. This is the place to learn. However, as I said before the idea of actually exploring swinging in your current relationship should not be on your radar. It may well be that she's not interested in pursuing it again because she knows that your relationship can't handle it at the current state. As for what she mean by her and her ex using it to resuscitate their marriage. She likely meant that they their relationship was failing (perhaps sexually, probably otherwise as well) and rather than deal with the real issues they thought that if they opened their relationship up and allowed sex with others it would fix the issues they were dealing with. It obviously didn't. However, evidently she did make some good friends in the process (hopefully there are a few real friends in that bunch and not all just a bunch of rude gossips). Unfortunately, a lot of couples come to the idea of swinging at a point in their relationship when they simply aren't ready for it and many come to it thinking that it will "fix" whatever is broken in their relationship. It pretty much never works.

Julie, evidently she feels that the LS has done her more harm than good, and is pretty much dead set against it. I'm kind of disappointed but will continue to try to learn as much as I can. Since we began living together we have become friends with a pretty broad social group and I must say that those who practice swinging seem to be the most honest and caring of the whole group. IDK why you don't advertise this aspect more? The public opinion of swinging is mostly negative, but if people would actually meet and talk with swingers , they would, like me , come away with a fresh and positive new perspective. Except for this a**hole and his wife, almost all of those I have met are good folks, and not perverts. It's not that they think outside the box, it's more like their box is shaped a little different than others.

[latenight 15]

Not what she did but that she may be lying about it, would bother me.

 

What other areas is she okay with lies?

Tribbles, I don't believe that she lied at all. I think that there were a few things that she didn't mention because until now , the subject never came up. You have to remember that this is a new issue and not one that we have ever had to deal with before.

[latenight 15]

I get that you experienced some of what was written as condemnation, but not one single word was meant unkindly, not by anyone. Even the harshest things were designed only to stop what appeared to be an almost intentional relationship-destroying spiral.

 

You don't know the history of the people behind the computers, which means you don't know who among us have had similar experiences and similarly seductive invitations to poison our own lives with our pasts. However, be assured that some of us do. Word of honor.

Mauijanedoe, (I love that username) I'm glad to hear it. I didn't want to be the cause of any angst on the part of anyone, and really want to feel good about my experience here on SB. So, no harm , no foul.

[DaggersNRoses 271]

I would say that whatever she did in swinging are not things she feels good about. I am not sure why she still has friendships in the lifestyle.

[Lionheart72 2,190]

I am not sure why she still has friendships in the lifestyle.

 

Probably the same reason I still have friends in the Society for Creative Anachronism even though I can't stand going to SCA events... they're cool people and we get along well.

[DaggersNRoses 271]

Its not quite the same, is it?

 

Maybe its just me though. When something turned out to be bad for me, I don't like to encourage the negativity to remain in my life.

 

For certain the couple with the running mouth spouse has to go. He is too damaging.

[latenight 15]

DNR, she really likes these people and they are already in the social group that we belong to. The operative part is the social group , the swinging is secondary. There are actually several couples but only 2 or 3 swinging couples. I won't name it but this social/charitable group is pretty high profile in Indianapolis.

[DaggersNRoses 271]

So she finds herself having to be around that particular couple in social events. Have you discussed how to handle them in future yet?

 

BTW, how many non swingers were around when this fellow began his tell all? Do those people know she was involved in swinging activities?